XP/CP formula in CP 2.0

ErMurazor · February 2021

The current formula used:

((TotalPoints / (Cap ^ 0.95)) + 0.08) *400000

Are this gonna change when cap increase to 3600?

For example if you currently have 1500 CP to earn 1 CP with 3600 cap you need:

((1500 / (3600 ^ 0.95)) + 0.08) * 400000 = 283k XP

CyberOnEso · February 2021

I don't have the formula, but on the pts now it takes ~630k to get to 811 from 810, it takes ~447k on live.

PTS

The devs have said that after 1200 it is going to feel the same as it does now on live.
So, they are by no means changing the cap value in the formula to 3600.
Gaining CP, especially at higher CP levels won't feel much different than live.

zaria · February 2021

CyberOnEso wrote: »

I don't have the formula, but on the pts now it takes ~630k to get to 811 from 810, it takes ~447k on live.

PTS

The devs have said that after 1200 it is going to feel the same as it does now on live.
So, they are by no means changing the cap value in the formula to 3600.
Gaining CP, especially at higher CP levels won't feel much different than live.

Above cp 810 its an 1.5x penalty because you are above cap. 447K * 1.5=671 k
so the penalty above cp 810 is still present in the new system with an cp cap of 3600.

Yes it makes perfect sense.

CyberOnEso · February 2021

zaria wrote: »

CyberOnEso wrote: »

I don't have the formula, but on the pts now it takes ~630k to get to 811 from 810, it takes ~447k on live.

PTS

The devs have said that after 1200 it is going to feel the same as it does now on live.
So, they are by no means changing the cap value in the formula to 3600.
Gaining CP, especially at higher CP levels won't feel much different than live.

Above cp 810 its an 1.5x penalty because you are above cap. 447K * 1.5=671 k
so the penalty above cp 810 is still present in the new system with an cp cap of 3600.

Yes it makes perfect sense.

Brilliant, makes perfect sense! Looking forward to 5 years down the line people asking why they suddenly need more XP after 810 and people having to explain it was due to some really old system that used to exist. A bit like now and CP 160.

ErMurazor · February 2021

Ok, maybe thats where the 1200 CP softcap comes from. If i put 1200 as cap and multiply by 1.5 for 1500 CP i get roughly 1.1 mill XP for 1 CP. Mostly what it is in live today. And everyone below 1200 CP will gain alot faster.

1199-1200 = 602k XP needed
1200-1201 = 903k XP needed

Septimus_Magna · February 2021

Why would there be a softcap for XP gain when the CP cap is removed?
Feels like one of those things that has been missed while adjusting the CP system.

Ragnaroek93 · February 2021

400k xp per CP is the absolute maximum which a CP should cost, that's how it was in the initial CP system and that was already too much so they came up with a cap in the first place. Everything over 400k would mean that they've learned exactly nothing from the past.

ErMurazor · February 2021

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Why would there be a softcap for XP gain when the CP cap is removed?
Feels like one of those things that has been missed while adjusting the CP system.

Ask ZoS, it was mentioned in the reveal stream that you will get XP faster up to 1200 CP. After 1200 CP it will be similar as currently on live.

@ZOS_GinaBruno can we get an answer how CP gain are calculated on the PTS? You released the current formula here in the forums.

katorga · February 2021

i.e., judging from my rate of cp gain on live and the amount of time I have to play on average, it will take me almost 4 years to go from 1155 to 2700.

ErMurazor · February 2021

Any info on this? All ZoS said so far are that it will be easier to gain CP up to 1200 and then it will be same as now. I guess 1200 CP+ player would like some more specifics on this statement. IF its worth starting farming CP now or to wait.

Xebov · February 2021

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

400k xp per CP is the absolute maximum which a CP should cost, that's how it was in the initial CP system and that was already too much so they came up with a cap in the first place. Everything over 400k would mean that they've learned exactly nothing from the past.

I would go so far saying that 100k-200k should be the max. In the current system you can get some increase for small amounts of points, but the new one expects up to 120 points in one go to make progress. With this the XP requirements have to be much lower.

Ranger209 · February 2021

I do think they will adjust the formula with the new cap at 3600, and keep the 1.5X multiplier beyond cap of 3600 only.

(((CP Level / (3600 ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) for those under 3600 CP @1200 CP = 172906 XP
(((CP Level / (3600 ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000)*1.5 for those over 3600 CP
vs. old cap formula on live (((CP Level / (810 ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000)*1.5 @1200 CP = 970157 XP

If this is the case we will gain CP almost 6 times faster at 1200 than we currently do on live.
3600 is what the cap will change to. It is hard to count in the new CP constellations, but I believe in the blue tree alone there are over 2000 CP points to be spent meaning you would need 6000 plus CP to unlock everything. So we are a long way from being able to do that which I believe is their intention to create meaningful choices.

I guess we will have to wait and see when it goes live exactly how they adjust CP XP gain, but I don't know why they wouldn't use the same formula as is on live with modifying the old cap to the new cap. It seemed to work just fine before they locked CP in at 810 max, and should work just as well moving forward. They obviously have not yet adjusted this on test, and it is still the same formula there with the cap still at 810. Hopefully they change that on test, and we see that this is in fact the direction they are going modifying the formula to use the new 3600 cap.

ErMurazor · February 2021

They said softcap will be at 1200. After that cp gain will be as on live now

codierussell · February 2021

Ranger209 wrote: »

I do think they will adjust the formula with the new cap at 3600, and keep the 1.5X multiplier beyond cap of 3600 only.

(((CP Level / (3600 ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) for those under 3600 CP @1200 CP = 172906 XP
(((CP Level / (3600 ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000)*1.5 for those over 3600 CP
vs. old cap formula on live (((CP Level / (810 ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000)*1.5 @1200 CP = 970157 XP

If this is the case we will gain CP almost 6 times faster at 1200 than we currently do on live.
3600 is what the cap will change to. It is hard to count in the new CP constellations, but I believe in the blue tree alone there are over 2000 CP points to be spent meaning you would need 6000 plus CP to unlock everything. So we are a long way from being able to do that which I believe is their intention to create meaningful choices.

I guess we will have to wait and see when it goes live exactly how they adjust CP XP gain, but I don't know why they wouldn't use the same formula as is on live with modifying the old cap to the new cap. It seemed to work just fine before they locked CP in at 810 max, and should work just as well moving forward. They obviously have not yet adjusted this on test, and it is still the same formula there with the cap still at 810. Hopefully they change that on test, and we see that this is in fact the direction they are going modifying the formula to use the new 3600 cap.

I just noticed that it would take 6000 CP to fully max the tree out. If that is the case they obviously have plans to raise the cap past 3600 at some point. Clearly the cap in the formula needs to be changed to 3600 not 1200 otherwise the cp gain is going to be extremely slow. For the 1500 CP example in the original post that amounts to almost 700k exp difference changing the one number accounting for the 1.5x modifier for being over the 1200 soft cap they are talking about.

Ranger209 · February 2021

codierussell wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

I do think they will adjust the formula with the new cap at 3600, and keep the 1.5X multiplier beyond cap of 3600 only.

(((CP Level / (3600 ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) for those under 3600 CP @1200 CP = 172906 XP
(((CP Level / (3600 ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000)*1.5 for those over 3600 CP
vs. old cap formula on live (((CP Level / (810 ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000)*1.5 @1200 CP = 970157 XP

If this is the case we will gain CP almost 6 times faster at 1200 than we currently do on live.
3600 is what the cap will change to. It is hard to count in the new CP constellations, but I believe in the blue tree alone there are over 2000 CP points to be spent meaning you would need 6000 plus CP to unlock everything. So we are a long way from being able to do that which I believe is their intention to create meaningful choices.

I guess we will have to wait and see when it goes live exactly how they adjust CP XP gain, but I don't know why they wouldn't use the same formula as is on live with modifying the old cap to the new cap. It seemed to work just fine before they locked CP in at 810 max, and should work just as well moving forward. They obviously have not yet adjusted this on test, and it is still the same formula there with the cap still at 810. Hopefully they change that on test, and we see that this is in fact the direction they are going modifying the formula to use the new 3600 cap.

I just noticed that it would take 6000 CP to fully max the tree out. If that is the case they obviously have plans to raise the cap past 3600 at some point. Clearly the cap in the formula needs to be changed to 3600 not 1200 otherwise the cp gain is going to be extremely slow. For the 1500 CP example in the original post that amounts to almost 700k exp difference changing the one number accounting for the 1.5x modifier for being over the 1200 soft cap they are talking about.

It is hard to say what exactly they will do. They could change the cap value in the equation to 1200, but keep the 1.5x modifier to people over 3600 CP to allow people to get to 1200 quicker than the 810 value allows. Changing it to 3600 let's them get to 1200 even faster though. Whatever they do to start I am sure they will monitor it and adjust so people are generally gaining CP at the rate they desire.

I agree they intend to move that cap at some point when a threshold of enough players hitting 3600 CP is met. There is tons of room for expansion which they want so expanding the cap from 3600 at some point seems realistic.

codierussell · February 2021

@Ranger209 doing the math if they did do the 3600 someone at 160 cp it only takes 50k exp for the next CP compared to 90k if they used 1200. I could see them say this is too little but at the same time even in the new system I think players will be left out until at least 810 if not more now. Even at the low exp per CP it will still take players millions to hit 3600. If you just do it at base something like 400k at 1200 that's 960mil exp. Nobody is grinding all that overnight.

MashmalloMan · February 2021

@Ranger209

On an optimisitc, but realistic note:

I think they will just adjust the "cap" in the formula from 810 to 1200 which explains why it would cost the same amount of experience to level at that point while making 1-1200 easier. If they put 3600, then the exp gain like you said would be 6x faster which is ridiculous. They would of made a much bigger fuss about it in the livestream if it was going to be that easy.

What I can see happening is the removal of the 1.5x penalty past 810 and placed on 3600 instead, since we're encouraged to level that far now, why have a penality before 3600 at all?

codierussell · February 2021

@MashmalloMan unfortunately that is what I see is going to happen. I also see them keeping the 1.5x modifier too for 1200+ CP. My assumption is they don't want people gaining more cp because the slower that grind is the longer they have until they need to think about it again. If it is roughly the same as it is on live they will never have to touch cp again because nobody actually playing the game will hit 3600.

virtus753 · February 2021

codierussell wrote: »

@MashmalloMan unfortunately that is what I see is going to happen. I also see them keeping the 1.5x modifier too for 1200+ CP. My assumption is they don't want people gaining more cp because the slower that grind is the longer they have until they need to think about it again. If it is roughly the same as it is on live they will never have to touch cp again because nobody actually playing the game will hit 3600.

There are several players at 3000 CP and at least one at 3600 already, as far as I’m aware.

Give it a couple of years and we’ll have even more.

Universe · February 2021

virtus753 wrote: »

codierussell wrote: »

@MashmalloMan unfortunately that is what I see is going to happen. I also see them keeping the 1.5x modifier too for 1200+ CP. My assumption is they don't want people gaining more cp because the slower that grind is the longer they have until they need to think about it again. If it is roughly the same as it is on live they will never have to touch cp again because nobody actually playing the game will hit 3600.

There are several players at 3000 CP and at least one at 3600 already, as far as I’m aware.

Give it a couple of years and we’ll have even more.

Very... few.
The highest CP character I ever seen ingame was at CP 2500 and that was months ago, most players are very far behind and at the 810-1500 CP range.

codierussell · February 2021

virtus753 wrote: »

There are several players at 3000 CP and at least one at 3600 already, as far as I’m aware.

Give it a couple of years and we’ll have even more.

Unless your soul purpose is grinding exp you aren't even close. Like mentioned most people are well under 2000 CP. Even at 3000 CP you still have hundreds of millions of exp left to get to 3600. Even at 1200 CP with a 150 scroll and all training gear it takes almost an hour to get one cp straight up mob grinding. If it is similar gain to now the game is done before 3600 CP is a normal number to see.

virtus753 · February 2021

codierussell wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

There are several players at 3000 CP and at least one at 3600 already, as far as I’m aware.

Give it a couple of years and we’ll have even more.

Unless your soul purpose is grinding exp you aren't even close. Like mentioned most people are well under 2000 CP. Even at 3000 CP you still have hundreds of millions of exp left to get to 3600. Even at 1200 CP with a 150 scroll and all training gear it takes almost an hour to get one cp straight up mob grinding. If it is similar gain to now the game is done before 3600 CP is a normal number to see.

Most is a far cry from all. In any given MMO there will always be players who grind as their sole focus. Add to that the fact that even someone at cap right now won’t be able to max out the new CP system. That leaves a lot of room to raise the caps, both hard and soft.

If you mean to say that the devs are free not to touch the new system ever again *regardless* of the few players near or at cap, I would say that’s a fair opinion to have, provided the system stays as is. Keep in mind, though, that we already know the devs don’t want to take that approach: they’ve said explicitly that they intend to expand the system, which is a big part of why the soft and hard caps have a lot of room to be raised. Already it seems that they have been thinking of where to implement this expansion: take a look at the Meticulous Disassembly node, which seems to be one of the places for a crafting subconstellation in the Thief. It would definitely explain the issues with that node right now, its high cost, its all-or-nothing nature, and the position of the node in the center of the constellation (exactly where one of the minimages is in the blue tree). Given all of the above, I seriously doubt the devs will leave the system as is, even if they theoretically could with only a relatively small (but still non-zero) number of people reaching its limits. They already froze the progression system for over two years. Another stale stretch like that wouldn’t be a great way to keep players motivated, especially once they hit the drag of 1200+. I would think raising the soft XP cap at intervals, like they used to raise the investment cap, would do a lot to bring back the motivation of leveling.

Ranger209 · February 2021

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

1/27 Addendum

Lastly, we adjusted the rate at which you gain CP to be faster than it currently is on the live servers. Considering we haven’t raised the cap by 30 per patch in quite some time, we adjusted the CP curve to accommodate for that difference with a focus on speeding up the gain between 810 CP and roughly 1200 CP. This means you’ll gain CP levels faster at lower levels, and the rate at which you gain CP between 810 and 1200 (ish) will be slightly faster than how it is now with CP 1.0. After 1200 CP or so, the CP gain rate will feel about the same as it did in CP 1.0 once you reached higher ranks.

As with all updates and PTS cycles, we anticipate there will be further adjustments to balance based on player feedback!

People seem to be overly focused on the first paragraph of that addendum while totally ignoring the last sentence. They have a baseline thought in mind with which to work from, but it can move.

stefj68 · February 2021

what i dont like, even if they give me compensantion... and even if im lucking to get 3600cp... at the end i will be doing less dps, taking more damage etc.... i won't be able to do stuff as effective as i am right now with 810cp... i know they raise the mitigation, i know they raise our hp.... but we can't take defensive skills and offensive as easy... we are limited to 4 slotting, and their is defenitively not enough passive skills per tree...

i like the idea and the hype behind the new cp system... but if with 810cp im not able with the new system to get where i am right now, mitigation, penetration, criticals, and power that i can't perform well enough to do 65k it will be a major draw back for me and cut me playing fun!

so far dps wise im 30-40% behind with same gear on pts... i know i know dummy don't reflect all... beeing in the dark with how many cp we will get with the new system is also anxiety... i will be totally unhappy if i feel i am doing 30% less on a regular basis...

they said for years that after 810cp progression was quadruple cost... so unflaten the curved, recalculate real experience, and reapply the progression curved after the new cap...

ErMurazor · February 2021

Since this is a totally new system our CP lvl should be based on our total XP earned. That is the fairest most correct way of doing the transition.

Septimus_Magna · February 2021

stefj68 wrote: »

what i dont like, even if they give me compensantion... and even if im lucking to get 3600cp... at the end i will be doing less dps, taking more damage etc.... i won't be able to do stuff as effective as i am right now with 810cp... i know they raise the mitigation, i know they raise our hp.... but we can't take defensive skills and offensive as easy... we are limited to 4 slotting, and their is defenitively not enough passive skills per tree...

i like the idea and the hype behind the new cp system... but if with 810cp im not able with the new system to get where i am right now, mitigation, penetration, criticals, and power that i can't perform well enough to do 65k it will be a major draw back for me and cut me playing fun!

so far dps wise im 30-40% behind with same gear on pts... i know i know dummy don't reflect all... beeing in the dark with how many cp we will get with the new system is also anxiety... i will be totally unhappy if i feel i am doing 30% less on a regular basis...

they said for years that after 810cp progression was quadruple cost... so unflaten the curved, recalculate real experience, and reapply the progression curved after the new cap...

The target dummy resist is not working correctly so the dps loss will be less than what you're currently experiencing. Its mainly a buff for low CP players because they will gain a lot of resist, damage and health. High CP players will feel the nerf for sure.

Zodiarkslayer · February 2021

codierussell wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

I do think they will adjust the formula with the new cap at 3600, and keep the 1.5X multiplier beyond cap of 3600 only.

(((CP Level / (3600 ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) for those under 3600 CP @1200 CP = 172906 XP
(((CP Level / (3600 ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000)*1.5 for those over 3600 CP
vs. old cap formula on live (((CP Level / (810 ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000)*1.5 @1200 CP = 970157 XP

If this is the case we will gain CP almost 6 times faster at 1200 than we currently do on live.
3600 is what the cap will change to. It is hard to count in the new CP constellations, but I believe in the blue tree alone there are over 2000 CP points to be spent meaning you would need 6000 plus CP to unlock everything. So we are a long way from being able to do that which I believe is their intention to create meaningful choices.

I guess we will have to wait and see when it goes live exactly how they adjust CP XP gain, but I don't know why they wouldn't use the same formula as is on live with modifying the old cap to the new cap. It seemed to work just fine before they locked CP in at 810 max, and should work just as well moving forward. They obviously have not yet adjusted this on test, and it is still the same formula there with the cap still at 810. Hopefully they change that on test, and we see that this is in fact the direction they are going modifying the formula to use the new 3600 cap.

I just noticed that it would take 6000 CP to fully max the tree out. If that is the case they obviously have plans to raise the cap past 3600 at some point. Clearly the cap in the formula needs to be changed to 3600 not 1200 otherwise the cp gain is going to be extremely slow. For the 1500 CP example in the original post that amounts to almost 700k exp difference changing the one number accounting for the 1.5x modifier for being over the 1200 soft cap they are talking about.

The whole purpose of the new CP is to make horizontal developement a thing. It is counterintuative to reintroduce a powercreep after some time. Wouldn't you agree?

Mayrael · February 2021

They will do it this way. New soft cap pushed to 1200. Above that it stays as it is. Every DLC update etc. etc. They rise soft cap by 50 or 100. Boom. In few years new players will be able to get to 3600 in like half a year, while for us it took 10 years, because they have blocked us with soft caps. Then when it will be to easy to get to 3600, they will increase it! You have to learn this game is not made to entertain you, its made to adict you, to force the feeling you lose something without loging in.

Stanko · February 2021

I can confirm that it is still roughly 2,500,000 XP per CP when you are in the 3200 CP range.

ErMurazor · February 2021

Stanko wrote: »

I can confirm that it is still roughly 2,500,000 XP per CP when you are in the 3200 CP range.

LOL, thats insane

Zorgon_The_Revenged · February 2021

Do we have a rough formula yet? Anyone got a comparison graph?