"I think we've learned a lot over the years. And one of the main, recurring themes that we've heard from players, especially our more hardcore Elder Scrolls people, is people are scary. And there's some content that they aren't necessarily comfortable within a large group, but they would do with a couple of close, trusted friends. And so the beauty of this system and one of my hopes is, you know, you and a buddy could go and do four-player dungeons because you have two companions to help you out."
Another benefit to the upcoming Companion system, Lambert hopes, is that it'll give folks the confidence to take on tougher dungeons, thereby getting the chance to mingle and engage more with the ESO community.
"It will help players, A) develop stronger social ties in-game with their companions, but also, help them kind-of edge a little bit more into some of the group content and meeting other players potentially, which is really exciting to me, because that's where the magic of MMO happens, you know, meeting other people and talking with them and developing those really close social ties."
SeaGtGruff wrote: »JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »Veteran dungeons were there on launch.. also VR zones at launch were so difficult you needed to group for Craglorn and Cadwell's gold/ silver or you would take forever doing simple quest.. I remember being killed by VR mudcrabs
It sounds like you're saying that Craglorn ("VR zones") was there at launch, but I think it was added after launch:
2014 April 2 -- Version 1.0.1 [source: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Patch/1.0.1]
2014 April 4 -- The Elder Scrolls Online PC/Mac release date [source: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Online]
2014 May 22 -- Version 1.1.2, or "Update 1" -- Craglorn added [source: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Patch/1.1.2]Adventure Zones were a type of Veteran-only content area in which all the gameplay was geared towards groups of four high level players. [...]
The only Adventure Zone to see release was Craglorn, which was added in Update 1 and expanded in Update 4. However, the Adventure Zone model was scrapped in Update 12 in order to make Craglorn more accessible.
source: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Adventure_Zones
JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »Darkstorne wrote: »All modern western MMOs are predominantly single player. That's what the market wants. The vast majority of us spend 95% of our MMO time in solo experiences like questing/exploration, and like optional group content for the other 5% like dungeons, trials, and PVP.
.
You can't get to certain ilevel or light level in destiny or WoW without other players so idk where you got this illusion that the west prefers single player content
You mention Craglorn but ignore craglorn want a bad zone but the timing was bad... it was for only veteran 10 players which was an absolutely minuscule amount of people by the time of its release.
Unless they changed something, you can certainly get to max level in WoW as a solo player.. ilvl is not something you need, if you don't want to.. so yes, it could be a sign that most people prefer a single player experience
ilevel is something you need because you can't solo layers in Torghast(maelstrom arena) without certain ilevels.JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »The_Old_Goat wrote: »Are you saying that there wasn't already single player content in the game?
Having solo content=/= being a solo focused game
It's not a solo focused game, though.
It's more 'solo play' than it was when it first came out. *Context*
On the contrary. When the game first came out, there were no trials and no veteran dungeons. Those came after launch.
What you had was zone after zone of quests. They did focus more on groups when they added vet dungeons, trials and pledges. Along with the DLC zone world bosses that packed a punch.
Veteran dungeons were there on launch.. also VR zones at launch were so difficult you needed to group for Craglorn and Cadwell's gold/ silver or you would take forever doing simple quest.. I remember being killed by VR mudcrabs
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***
JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »Darkstorne wrote: »All modern western MMOs are predominantly single player. That's what the market wants. The vast majority of us spend 95% of our MMO time in solo experiences like questing/exploration, and like optional group content for the other 5% like dungeons, trials, and PVP.
.
You can't get to certain ilevel or light level in destiny or WoW without other players so idk where you got this illusion that the west prefers single player content
You mention Craglorn but ignore craglorn want a bad zone but the timing was bad... it was for only veteran 10 players which was an absolutely minuscule amount of people by the time of its release.
Unless they changed something, you can certainly get to max level in WoW as a solo player.. ilvl is not something you need, if you don't want to.. so yes, it could be a sign that most people prefer a single player experience
ilevel is something you need because you can't solo layers in Torghast(maelstrom arena) without certain ilevels.JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »The_Old_Goat wrote: »Are you saying that there wasn't already single player content in the game?
Having solo content=/= being a solo focused game
It's not a solo focused game, though.
It's more 'solo play' than it was when it first came out. *Context*
On the contrary. When the game first came out, there were no trials and no veteran dungeons. Those came after launch.
What you had was zone after zone of quests. They did focus more on groups when they added vet dungeons, trials and pledges. Along with the DLC zone world bosses that packed a punch.
Veteran dungeons were there on launch.. also VR zones at launch were so difficult you needed to group for Craglorn and Cadwell's gold/ silver or you would take forever doing simple quest.. I remember being killed by VR mudcrabs
as someone who actualy plays WoW on and off - you do not need current max ilevel to solo Torgast
in any case - people who want to group, will continue to group. people who didn't group before, will STILL not group, but at least will have more options for more content.
Eso used to be a learning curve with difficulties, period.
JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »Darkstorne wrote: »All modern western MMOs are predominantly single player. That's what the market wants. The vast majority of us spend 95% of our MMO time in solo experiences like questing/exploration, and like optional group content for the other 5% like dungeons, trials, and PVP.
.
You can't get to certain ilevel or light level in destiny or WoW without other players so idk where you got this illusion that the west prefers single player content
You mention Craglorn but ignore craglorn want a bad zone but the timing was bad... it was for only veteran 10 players which was an absolutely minuscule amount of people by the time of its release.
Unless they changed something, you can certainly get to max level in WoW as a solo player.. ilvl is not something you need, if you don't want to.. so yes, it could be a sign that most people prefer a single player experience
ilevel is something you need because you can't solo layers in Torghast(maelstrom arena) without certain ilevels.JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »The_Old_Goat wrote: »Are you saying that there wasn't already single player content in the game?
Having solo content=/= being a solo focused game
It's not a solo focused game, though.
It's more 'solo play' than it was when it first came out. *Context*
On the contrary. When the game first came out, there were no trials and no veteran dungeons. Those came after launch.
What you had was zone after zone of quests. They did focus more on groups when they added vet dungeons, trials and pledges. Along with the DLC zone world bosses that packed a punch.
Veteran dungeons were there on launch.. also VR zones at launch were so difficult you needed to group for Craglorn and Cadwell's gold/ silver or you would take forever doing simple quest.. I remember being killed by VR mudcrabs
as someone who actualy plays WoW on and off - you do not need current max ilevel to solo Torgast
So you can do Twisted corridors on a 190 ilevel toon... you know a challenge mode specifically designed for max ilevel...
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***
adriant1978 wrote: »in any case - people who want to group, will continue to group. people who didn't group before, will STILL not group, but at least will have more options for more content.
Perhaps those lovers of group content could take a leaf from the advice they love to dish out to players who want to experience dungeon stories: go find a guild that shares your playstyle, in this case playing without companions.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***
JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »Shootsfoot wrote: »They sound optional to me, so...don't do it?
A system that will significantly make solo content easier is "optional"
Highly doubt that [snip]
[edited for baiting]
Because ESO isn't mmo, it's mo. They dropped the multiplayer out years ago. Nothing for end game players, all for casuals.
Eso used to be a learning curve with difficulties, period.
And cars used to have an unsynchronized transmission with gear change by hand - times change, and ESO isn't like that anymore for a very long time - just get over it, it is since a couple of years mainly made for casual solo players. Before it was as well not focused on group content - most of Tamriel is solo RPG content - it's difficulty scaled to single player by a reason.
Eso used to be a learning curve with difficulties, period.
And cars used to have an unsynchronized transmission with gear change by hand - times change, and ESO isn't like that anymore for a very long time - just get over it, it is since a couple of years mainly made for casual solo players. Before it was as well not focused on group content - most of Tamriel is solo RPG content - it's difficulty scaled to single player by a reason.
A lot of car/game comparisons ^^
One is for transport - one is for enjoyment. Eso ain't a Ferrari at the moment.
JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »SeaGtGruff wrote: »JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »Veteran dungeons were there on launch.. also VR zones at launch were so difficult you needed to group for Craglorn and Cadwell's gold/ silver or you would take forever doing simple quest.. I remember being killed by VR mudcrabs
It sounds like you're saying that Craglorn ("VR zones") was there at launch, but I think it was added after launch:
2014 April 2 -- Version 1.0.1 [source: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Patch/1.0.1]
2014 April 4 -- The Elder Scrolls Online PC/Mac release date [source: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Online]
2014 May 22 -- Version 1.1.2, or "Update 1" -- Craglorn added [source: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Patch/1.1.2]Adventure Zones were a type of Veteran-only content area in which all the gameplay was geared towards groups of four high level players. [...]
The only Adventure Zone to see release was Craglorn, which was added in Update 1 and expanded in Update 4. However, the Adventure Zone model was scrapped in Update 12 in order to make Craglorn more accessible.
source: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Adventure_Zones
All this typing doesn't really refute anything I said.
Craglorn was eso big update after launch, it was designed for 4 Vr10 players but the amount of VR10 players were minuscule... if you could just go to the zone at VR2 and it ended you up at VR10 it would have been better... but there's was no reason to go there at VR10 because there was no CP to grind.
Eso used to be a learning curve with difficulties, period.
And cars used to have an unsynchronized transmission with gear change by hand - times change, and ESO isn't like that anymore for a very long time - just get over it, it is since a couple of years mainly made for casual solo players. Before it was as well not focused on group content - most of Tamriel is solo RPG content - it's difficulty scaled to single player by a reason.
A lot of car/game comparisons ^^
One is for transport - one is for enjoyment. Eso ain't a Ferrari at the moment.
Well, it's fine for me and I guess most players, as the community is still growing. And cars are not just for transport either, especially not a Ferrari (if it isn't a tractor, that is ). It is a car predominantly made for enjoyment.
Eso used to be a learning curve with difficulties, period.
And cars used to have an unsynchronized transmission with gear change by hand - times change, and ESO isn't like that anymore for a very long time - just get over it, it is since a couple of years mainly made for casual solo players. Before it was as well not focused on group content - most of Tamriel is solo RPG content - it's difficulty scaled to single player by a reason.
A lot of car/game comparisons ^^
One is for transport - one is for enjoyment. Eso ain't a Ferrari at the moment.
Well, it's fine for me and I guess most players, as the community is still growing. And cars are not just for transport either, especially not a Ferrari (if it isn't a tractor, that is ). It is a car predominantly made for enjoyment.
You didn't get my punchline
I'm happy that it's growing. I'm still around, but mixed thoughts.
For those who don't usually bother with videos (I certainly don't) this is worth a watch if you have any interest in either game development or understanding player demography. To summarize some of the salient points:
MMOs have shifted to accommodating single-player modalities
What this basically means is that modern MMOs are already single player games by design. As the speaker put it towards the closing of the video "alone is the default state." Engaging in group point is the unique selling point of an MMO and there are various barriers and obstacles to getting players to engage in group play. Some of this is reflected in the speaker's summary of "ten types of loners" which I'll paraphrase shortly. In essence, folks play MMOs alone for many, many reasons:
- Newbies. Many players first jump into a game alone. While some may desire to engage in social circles, they might feel they want to get a handle on the game before engaging with others. Or, they may find it difficult to be invited to established and often cliquish groups that already exist in the social space of the game.
- Lurkers. Some folks just like to people watch, not engage with other people directly. As the speaker puts it, they view other players as content to absorb. This was compared to the phenomena of forum lurkers; lots of folks may read a forum but huge numbers don't actively participate in that social space.
- Griefers. Any MMO developer wants to root these people out of their spaces, but nonetheless they exist. Some are not interested in groups because they are interested in ruining other players days. They don't care about the social conventions of the space and Mehrunes Dagon at them.
- Constrained. Often, group play in MMOs requires a significant time commitment. Not everyone has the luxury of granting a video game that amount of time or devotion, but they are still interested in other parts of the game. So they play alone.
- Introverts. Supposedly, the gamer demographic tilts introverted a bit more than the general population. These folks are content just doing things on their own, and while they may engage in social spaces (in fact, this can be easier for introverts in online environments) it isn't something they prefer to do in the game.
- Breakups. At times, a player plays alone because the social circles they did have exploded. A guild became defunct, a friend they used to play with quit, and they haven't found new social circles to replace the old ones yet.
- Unworthy. An unfortunate result of the "gg, scrub" attitude is that expectations placed on players in groups is high. This makes some players uncomfortable trying group content because they are concerned about failing. The speaker cites tanks in particular as facing especially high barriers here, as raids with a tank wipe waste lots of people's time.
- Vacationers. Some play games just to get away. They want to play alone right now, even if they are in a guild, because they just want a break from obligations and responsibilities.
- Commitment/Drama-Phobe. Perhaps the first time someone joined a social guild, it was full of a bunch of toxic drama. Some have tried to step into the social scene but were faced with such a bad experience. Or they tried a raid and it took forever and also left a bad experience. They just don't want to commit to social anything.
- Loners. Some just prefer playing the game alone. They prefer the solo experience. They aren't interested in the group content at all, for whatever reason. They game can be played that way, so they play it that way. And ESO can certainly be played like a single-player RPG.
Eso used to be a learning curve with difficulties, period.
And cars used to have an unsynchronized transmission with gear change by hand - times change, and ESO isn't like that anymore for a very long time - just get over it, it is since a couple of years mainly made for casual solo players. Before it was as well not focused on group content - most of Tamriel is solo RPG content - it's difficulty scaled to single player by a reason.
A lot of car/game comparisons ^^
One is for transport - one is for enjoyment. Eso ain't a Ferrari at the moment.
Well, it's fine for me and I guess most players, as the community is still growing. And cars are not just for transport either, especially not a Ferrari (if it isn't a tractor, that is ). It is a car predominantly made for enjoyment.
You didn't get my punchline
I'm happy that it's growing. I'm still around, but mixed thoughts.
See, at some point one just has to acknowledge the facts - pvp isn't going to get better, any improvement ZOS could possibly make will be outdone by more players returning to play pvp - and the result of it will be, it might even feel worse for some time until enough will have left again, and then it will feel pretty much the same as currently - so this isn't going to change and ZOS knows that as well. So their main focus will be on anything else but pvp, because there they can still improve, whereas pvp is a lost cause - so their focus will most likely be new stuff for casual players and PvE group content and a new CP system for end game players to keep them busy grinding.
So yeah, it isn't a Ferrari for players like you - but it is for someone like me.
MMOs have shifted to accommodating single-player modalities
What this basically means is that modern MMOs are already single player games by design. As the speaker put it towards the closing of the video "alone is the default state." Engaging in group point is the unique selling point of an MMO and there are various barriers and obstacles to getting players to engage in group play. Some of this is reflected in the speaker's summary of "ten types of loners" which I'll paraphrase shortly. In essence, folks play MMOs alone for many, many reasons:
Eso used to be a learning curve with difficulties, period.
And cars used to have an unsynchronized transmission with gear change by hand - times change, and ESO isn't like that anymore for a very long time - just get over it, it is since a couple of years mainly made for casual solo players. Before it was as well not focused on group content - most of Tamriel is solo RPG content - it's difficulty scaled to single player by a reason.
A lot of car/game comparisons ^^
One is for transport - one is for enjoyment. Eso ain't a Ferrari at the moment.
Well, it's fine for me and I guess most players, as the community is still growing. And cars are not just for transport either, especially not a Ferrari (if it isn't a tractor, that is ). It is a car predominantly made for enjoyment.
You didn't get my punchline
I'm happy that it's growing. I'm still around, but mixed thoughts.
See, at some point one just has to acknowledge the facts - pvp isn't going to get better, any improvement ZOS could possibly make will be outdone by more players returning to play pvp - and the result of it will be, it might even feel worse for some time until enough will have left again, and then it will feel pretty much the same as currently - so this isn't going to change and ZOS knows that as well. So their main focus will be on anything else but pvp, because there they can still improve, whereas pvp is a lost cause - so their focus will most likely be new stuff for casual players and PvE group content and a new CP system for end game players to keep them busy grinding.
So yeah, it isn't a Ferrari for players like you - but it is for someone like me.
I don't agree entirely. I don't believe PVP is a lost cause. If people left I think the game would feel rather empty very quickly. I think they will address it at one point, but possibly with a a monetary approach like PVE has now known for quite some time. That said, PVP does have many aspects of paid content. You only have to look and know that at the moment the current Meta's (actually every meta in a sense) is based off the latest DLC content and often to the displeasure of many. Just saying target audience is also in player vs player realms, even the most casual of us all.
SeaGtGruff wrote: »Gone are the days of screaming fake Tank
Gone are the days of Git GUUD Scrub.
I'm just guessing, but I doubt that companions will be allowed in queued dungeons-- walk-in dungeons, yes; but probably not queued dungeons. I mean, how would that even work? But who knows; perhaps they'll figure out a way to handle it.
So it seems likely that players are still going to have to put up with obnoxious OP players if they want to queue for a dungeon to grab their daily transmute crystals.
Darkstorne wrote: »All modern western MMOs are predominantly single player. That's what the market wants. The vast majority of us spend 95% of our MMO time in solo experiences like questing/exploration, and like optional group content for the other 5% like dungeons, trials, and PVP.
Forced group content in zones never goes down well. A lesson Craglorn learned well...
I think the next big "MMO" advancement for the genre will be to make solo content truly solo, so you don't even run into random players on the map unless it's beneficial to you (ie, world bosses, dolmens, public dungeons). Seeing other players around you when you're questing or delving actively detracts from the experience since it necessitates MMO tropes like respawning mobs and simpler quest structures (can't have set pieces and big changes after quests in a shared world). It's not a thought many players want to face though - they'll defend seeing players everywhere and say "that's how an MMO works" as though MMOs have stayed the same and never evolved, and as though modern MMOs like Destiny and the Division aren't half way to this position already. But it's almost certainly going to happen, and I think that 95% chunk of players will love it for the increased quality in AI, level design, and quest structure as a result.
Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »Darkstorne wrote: »All modern western MMOs are predominantly single player. That's what the market wants. The vast majority of us spend 95% of our MMO time in solo experiences like questing/exploration, and like optional group content for the other 5% like dungeons, trials, and PVP.
Forced group content in zones never goes down well. A lesson Craglorn learned well...
I think the next big "MMO" advancement for the genre will be to make solo content truly solo, so you don't even run into random players on the map unless it's beneficial to you (ie, world bosses, dolmens, public dungeons). Seeing other players around you when you're questing or delving actively detracts from the experience since it necessitates MMO tropes like respawning mobs and simpler quest structures (can't have set pieces and big changes after quests in a shared world). It's not a thought many players want to face though - they'll defend seeing players everywhere and say "that's how an MMO works" as though MMOs have stayed the same and never evolved, and as though modern MMOs like Destiny and the Division aren't half way to this position already. But it's almost certainly going to happen, and I think that 95% chunk of players will love it for the increased quality in AI, level design, and quest structure as a result.
I am for the most part a solo player but don't like solo games as I like seeing the other players in the cities and while out adventuring/questing. If things truly go the way you are predicting I can safely say I wouldn't play MMO's anymore and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that regard.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***
Michaelkeir wrote: »JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »The_Old_Goat wrote: »Are you saying that there wasn't already single player content in the game?
Having solo content=/= being a solo focused game
It's not a solo focused game, though.
But with these changes it seems like it. The devs seem to be encouraging solo play more and more in a MMO. And pushing it as a Chapter selling point no less. The way things are going in a year or two they will just remove the MMO part and just call it Elderscrolls (Solo adventure) featuring the Crown Store.