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Nerfing single proc set like Sheer Venom is a mistake becouse changes should be much deeper
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Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dr_Ganknstein wrote: »Yes let's nerf all dot damage and proc sets and make everyone just stack damage instead because the game was so much better insta one shoting people instead of watching them slowly die from poisons.
At least DOTs can be cleansed. A necro with a reasonable amount of health can erase these procs with ease. And I'm sure a lot of the folks complaining in this thread are the same folks that can't be bothered to slot a purge because some influencer didn't make room for it on his meta build of the week video.
ZOS isn't going to nerf current sets, because they sell too many DLCs and Plus memberships because of them. Look how long it took them to nerf Sheer Venom. If it were up to me, I'd give every class an inexpensive cleanse like they gave the necro, or simply cut the cost of Purge so more people would think about using it. Folks (especially fringe PvPers) would think twice about what they are wearing if they are running for their lives waiting for proc cooldown timers to refresh.
Edited by Jaraal on October 30, 2020 9:59PMRIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.1 -
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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I've gone over this before, several times, but cleansing isn't really a viable counter to the current proc-DOT meta. In the previous example that I've used, a single player wearing Sheer Venom, Unleashed Terror, and using a Maelstrom 2h can apply 5-9 DOTs in 2 global cooldowns. Some of those DOTs can also automatically be reapplied with no input from the user, beyond those first two GCDs.Dr_Ganknstein wrote: »Yes let's nerf all dot damage and proc sets and make everyone just stack damage instead because the game was so much better insta one shoting people instead of watching them slowly die from poisons.
At least DOTs can be cleansed. A necro with a reasonable amount of health can erase these procs with ease. And I'm sure a lot of the folks complaining in this thread are the same folks that can't be bothered to slot a purge because some influencer didn't make room for it on his meta build of the week video.
ZOS isn't going to nerf current sets, because they sell too many DLCs and Plus memberships because of them. Look how long it took them to nerf Sheer Venom. If it were up to me, I'd give every class an inexpensive cleanse like they gave the necro, or simply cut the cost of Purge so more people would think about using it. Folks (especially fringe PvPers) would think twice about what they are wearing if they are running for their lives waiting for proc cooldown timers to refresh.
Now factor in other players who are also wearing various proc sets, including those which will apply DOTs in an AOE without them even targeting you, and it should become obvious that cleansing often isn't a viable counter. Sure, it can work great in some 1v1 situations (a Magicka Necromancer relying on Oblivion's Foe is pretty much hosed in such a scenario), or when you've managed to get some breathing room from LOS, but it's largely a waste of GCDs and resources when you're actively engaged in a group fight vs multiple proc-DOT users.
Edit:
And I should mention, as I have before, that widespread access to cheap and effective cleansing would be far too strong of a counter to builds that rely on non-proc'd DOTs and debuffs.Edited by wheem_ESO on October 31, 2020 12:06AM3 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
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I've gone over this before, several times, but cleansing isn't really a viable counter to the current proc-DOT meta. In the previous example that I've used, a single player wearing Sheer Venom, Unleashed Terror, and using a Maelstrom 2h can apply 5-9 DOTs in 2 global cooldowns. Some of those DOTs can also automatically be reapplied with no input from the user, beyond those first two GCDs.Dr_Ganknstein wrote: »Yes let's nerf all dot damage and proc sets and make everyone just stack damage instead because the game was so much better insta one shoting people instead of watching them slowly die from poisons.
At least DOTs can be cleansed. A necro with a reasonable amount of health can erase these procs with ease. And I'm sure a lot of the folks complaining in this thread are the same folks that can't be bothered to slot a purge because some influencer didn't make room for it on his meta build of the week video.
ZOS isn't going to nerf current sets, because they sell too many DLCs and Plus memberships because of them. Look how long it took them to nerf Sheer Venom. If it were up to me, I'd give every class an inexpensive cleanse like they gave the necro, or simply cut the cost of Purge so more people would think about using it. Folks (especially fringe PvPers) would think twice about what they are wearing if they are running for their lives waiting for proc cooldown timers to refresh.
A necro can cast Hexproof once every second and remove 4 DOTs per cast.... for less than 2000 HP per cast. And he can get that health back, plus more in one Scythe cast.
What is your solution? Are you going to kill a high heath, mobile proc stacker with your stat buffed clickies, LAs and HAs? The only solution I've seen offered is to beg ZOS to nerf procs. Well, what if that never happens? Time to start surviving and fight fire with fire.
Edited by Jaraal on October 31, 2020 12:36AMRIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.1 -
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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I guess you play exclusively in CP-Enabled PvP? Trying to rely on Hexproof + the garbage Scythe against a decent Stam player that's loaded up with proc sets is a good way to take a dirt nap in BGs.A necro can cast Hexproof once every second and remove 4 DOTs per cast.... for less than 2000 HP per cast. And he can get that health back, plus more in one Scythe cast.
What is your solution? Are you going to kill a high heath, mobile proc stacker with your stat buffed clickies, LAs and HAs? The only solution I've seen offered is to beg ZOS to nerf procs. Well, what if that never happens? Time to start surviving and fight fire with fire.2 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
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I guess you play exclusively in CP-Enabled PvP? Trying to rely on Hexproof + the garbage Scythe against a decent Stam player that's loaded up with proc sets is a good way to take a dirt nap in BGs.A necro can cast Hexproof once every second and remove 4 DOTs per cast.... for less than 2000 HP per cast. And he can get that health back, plus more in one Scythe cast.
What is your solution? Are you going to kill a high heath, mobile proc stacker with your stat buffed clickies, LAs and HAs? The only solution I've seen offered is to beg ZOS to nerf procs. Well, what if that never happens? Time to start surviving and fight fire with fire.
You still haven't answered my question.
Is avoiding PvP the answer?RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.0 -
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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No, the answer is to nerf proc sets. As I said before, it's hard to say exactly what needs to be changed, since there are various ways they could go about it. There could be a shared cooldown that applies to all proc sets (or just offensively based ones). They could reduce the baseline damage, but perhaps allow them to crit. And I certainly think they need to make them all consistent when it comes to "automatic reapplication" - for instance, ZOS specifically excluded the new version of Oblivion's Foe from being reapplied more than once from a single Soul Trap cast, but didn't attach the same limitation to Sheer Venom, or the Maelstrom 2h + Stampede.
I guess you play exclusively in CP-Enabled PvP? Trying to rely on Hexproof + the garbage Scythe against a decent Stam player that's loaded up with proc sets is a good way to take a dirt nap in BGs.A necro can cast Hexproof once every second and remove 4 DOTs per cast.... for less than 2000 HP per cast. And he can get that health back, plus more in one Scythe cast.
What is your solution? Are you going to kill a high heath, mobile proc stacker with your stat buffed clickies, LAs and HAs? The only solution I've seen offered is to beg ZOS to nerf procs. Well, what if that never happens? Time to start surviving and fight fire with fire.
You still haven't answered my question.
Is avoiding PvP the answer?4 -
FrankonPC✭✭✭✭✭
A necro can cast Hexproof once every second and remove 4 DOTs per cast.... for less than 2000 HP per cast. And he can get that health back, plus more in one Scythe cast.
What is your solution? Are you going to kill a high heath, mobile proc stacker with your stat buffed clickies, LAs and HAs? The only solution I've seen offered is to beg ZOS to nerf procs. Well, what if that never happens? Time to start surviving and fight fire with fire.
If your attempted solution is "be on one of the best classes in the game" it's probably not a great solution.
You absolutely should run the strongest sets out there. It's not on the players to nerf themselves. The solution is to reduce the effectiveness of procs in pvp currently as well as reduce the effectiveness of health based heals. If people can't stack 40-50k health and kill people with procs, they'll stop doing it and build in other ways because they'll have to.
Tanks will still exist like they always do, but people run high health and procs for a reason, because it's the most effective right now.0 -
FrankonPC✭✭✭✭✭Swordancer wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »
https://youtu.be/dqdwEiI2wRc
This is the fourth video highlighting how stupid proc sets are. This is satirical for all those immune to sarcasm...
What is stupid is nerfing one set when it is required to nerf all of them at ones. Otherewise we get the same results as in the past, which is not possitive effects at all and the same problem never fixed. We swap builds to other spammy one and another patch we get other nerfs and buffs becouse some ppl are crying too much.
We had dozens of single nerfs and the only result is one set is replacing the other. Peoeple are still complaining, some other people allow you to create videos like the above becouse they simply cannot addapt to game changes and updates.
Also nerfing something because of battleground and forgetting about Cyro where tanky builds are true kings in my opinion is also wrong.
I know this is from a while back, but holidays. I agree with some of this. Nobody wants a constantly shifting scale where sets get overbuffed and over-nerfed. The goal is to find some sort of balance where more builds and sets are viable. Most of the proc sets are currently pretty well balanced with other proc sets. They're NOT balanced with stat based sets, which is why the buffing of procs and the stacking with malacath while nerfing nma and fury was weird.I mean I won't be arguing with anyone because we all have our rights and opinions also different expirence.
You're just going to resort to name calling and insulting instead?I just wonder where are your not cutted videos from similar gameplay with random strangers, few rounds with different people that actually shows that with this set you are godlike killing machine. It simply won't happen becouse all you need is some expirenced player with the right counter build to do the same thing to sheer venom spammer as you can do to some newbies in the battlegorund with your poison build.
You could have asked me what I did, how I got my results etc. Instead of insulting the players I play against or myself, you could point out why it's cool that proc based sets get 3x the amount of damage doing the same thing as stat based sets. I never cut any of these videos. All of these fights were my first fights playing them. I laughed at how ridiculous the damage was, clipped it and hopped off to make the video. It really didn't take much effort. Higher mmr I'd have similar damage but less kills.
All I have ever advocated for is balance. If players enjoy proc sets where they're at, then bump weapon and spell dmg sets up to where they're competitive(800+). If players do not like proc sets where they're at, then nerf these sets in some way, via malacath not working with them, them having a global cooldown, scaling with max stats etc. so that they're in line with stat based sets. I'm flexible with the end result here! Are you?
It's not crying to point out that the difference between these types of sets is stark right now and that a more balanced patch is more fun.
Procs contribute to the tank meta. They did in the last proc meta and they do now. When you're making a pvp build you're trying to find some amount of damage while still having great survivability. proc sets give you so much MORE damage that you can stack procs and run stage 3 vampire for undeath and all recovery glyphs. Your damage will still be there(because procs), your recovery will be there(because procs) and your tankiness will be there because you can stack into things you otherwise wouldn't be able to do. All of this coinciding with health based healing to where you can have great heals without stacking damage allows you to make a very tanky build, push damage, have great healing and sustain.
There's no give or take with proc sets on some specs, and that's the problem. If you want to wipe out some of the tank meta, lower proc damage(or increase stat based sets) and put a cap on health based healing. That won't solve everything, but it would be a great step in the right direction that would stop people from stacking as much as they currently can. They would then be forced to make decisions on whether or not to run more procs and be squishy, or run defensive sets and have less damage.
edit: it looks like I did respond to this already, but not everything. I also can't delete it. Anyways, before we get to the next pts we as a community should voice what we would like to see change.Edited by FrankonPC on December 28, 2020 5:41PM1 -
Kram8ion✭✭✭✭✭Sheer Venom needs to be returned to its former glory to counter werewolves
Simpleps4eu
Kramm stam man kittyblade1 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sheer Venom needs to be returned to its former glory to counter werewolves
Simple
Or they just increase the Poison Sensitivity of WWs. As a StamDK this is naturally my preferred solution, however a cap on Alessian is also appropriate in my opinion, and probably more equitable than diminishing the WW Resistance Buff. I was a little surprised this set was changed to a percentile HP Regen set shortly after the percentile HP Regen buffs of Orc, Nord, and Khajiit were removed, and now Orgnum's no longer has a percentile buff either.
Edit: I thought this was a Nerf WW thread for a minute. All damage proc tooltips should get co-efficients, until then I believe it will be impossible to balance them. Off the top of my head this only leaves Poisons, Enchantments, and Status Effects (including Axe Bleed) as damage without a co-efficient.
Edited by Urzigurumash on December 30, 2020 12:00PMXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
techyeshic✭✭✭✭✭Health scaled healing or damage should not be a thing IMO. Would at least give a weakness to not requiring offensive stats.
In before "but tanks...". If you have a tank role, you should have a healer and dps with you; otherwise, you should go for a more balanced buildEdited by techyeshic on December 30, 2020 3:47PM2 -
SgtNuttzmeg✭✭✭✭Swordancer wrote: »Don't get me wrong. I like to play as tank, sometimes I like even troll others with such build but we are too powerfull. Lately you nerfed one of the most usless sets, red mountain. You doing that becouse of performance. You knew that this set is doing a lot of calculations per each hit, even aoe one so you nerfed it to be more usless just to get your performance better. Now you are doing the same with sheer venom. You are not trying to balance this game but just trying get little more performance and we are not blind and stupid we can see what is the true reason. 10k damage overs 6 seconds when in this time I can heal myself for 20k, oh what a great problem.
Nerfing damage sets is pointless. We have large problems with too tanky builds. Leeching poision, Crimson Twilight, Earthgore and many others. Playing as tank is the only way to play fair right now with such lags. Sheer Venom is not OP set at all and yet you are nerfing it so tanky sets could become more popular than ever. This set is good to slowly drain health bars but let be honest, it is not OP set at all. This set is suppose to drain health, that is idea behind it and we can infect entire group and this is the true reason why you are nerfing it. If you nerf it you will just make tanks harder to kill and that is huge problem right now.
Im playing trolly tank myself. Draining my health bar is a nightmare and yet I am able to kill Sheer Venom users and almost all pure damage builds, not all builds but yet it is not so hard. By nerfing damage sets right now you will make this game much worse, less balanced. The damage/healing gap between healing sets and damage sets is too low.
In my opinion healing sets should make you harder to kill, pure damage sets should make you a better killer but lets be honest. For now combat with tanky guys like me takes too much time. We can jump around, be almost killed just to get huge healing buff and do it again. Simetimes I can troll people for 20 minutes just to get bored or killed when there is too much of them coming or somone got good build against me. Yeah there are clever damage builds that knows how to handle tank by draining his health and resources.
Rememeber that nerfing damage makes tanks stronger, tanks causing combat to take too much time. When the battle is too long there are performance issues. If you do not belive me just look at you tube when tank can troll 10 ppl killing one by one becouse this is how balance looks like right now.
The reason this set was nerfed was because it synergizes with pestilence host too strongly.Legions of Mordor Core
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