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• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 15, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
· Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
· PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
Harder enemies are a necessity in ESO.
-
Daemons_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DosPanchos wrote: »Unfortunately, the triviality of overland content will persist. I honestly don’t understand why the forum-questers rage so hard against challenging overland content, but they do, and it’s effective.
Overland content in ESO will always be made for people who like to slowly and methodically press a single button at a time with little thought given to the game’s mechanics.
Stick with PvP as long as you can bc that’s where the challenge and beauty of this game lies (or did, idk, I haven’t played in quite some time).
Another one who seems to not want to understand3 -
eKsDee✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »DosPanchos wrote: »I honestly don’t understand why the forum-questers rage so hard against challenging overland content, but they do, and it’s effective.
I don't understand why others think they have a right to take away the backbone of the game, the storyline quests, from the average players. These quests exclusively take place in overland and no one has a right to have them altered at the expense of others. Not even if it's optional, because that still excludes others.
How the hell does an optional difficulty increase which may or may not have an unimpactful reward increase exclude others any more than any form of questing content already excludes veterans? If anything, it's making the game more inclusionary, because veterans can actually enjoy themselves in overland content without being put to sleep by a lack of engaging gameplay.5 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »DosPanchos wrote: »I honestly don’t understand why the forum-questers rage so hard against challenging overland content, but they do, and it’s effective.
I don't understand why others think they have a right to take away the backbone of the game, the storyline quests, from the average players. These quests exclusively take place in overland and no one has a right to have them altered at the expense of others. Not even if it's optional, because that still excludes others.
How the hell does an optional difficulty increase which may or may not have an unimpactful reward increase exclude others any more than any form of questing content already excludes veterans? If anything, it's making the game more inclusionary, because veterans can actually enjoy themselves in overland content without being put to sleep by a lack of engaging gameplay.
Overland content is the story. It's not supposed to be challenging and give dungeon level rewards. That is why we have vet dungeons and trials.PCNA6 -
eKsDee✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »DosPanchos wrote: »I honestly don’t understand why the forum-questers rage so hard against challenging overland content, but they do, and it’s effective.
I don't understand why others think they have a right to take away the backbone of the game, the storyline quests, from the average players. These quests exclusively take place in overland and no one has a right to have them altered at the expense of others. Not even if it's optional, because that still excludes others.
How the hell does an optional difficulty increase which may or may not have an unimpactful reward increase exclude others any more than any form of questing content already excludes veterans? If anything, it's making the game more inclusionary, because veterans can actually enjoy themselves in overland content without being put to sleep by a lack of engaging gameplay.
Overland content is the story. It's not supposed to be challenging and give dungeon level rewards. That is why we have vet dungeons and trials.
And that story falls flat on its face when veteran players literally have to play while doing something else to avoid falling asleep, or intentionally slow themselves down to a tenth of their normal speed to avoid killing the boss before they even finish their dialogue.
Story is meant to be fun, and currently it's only fun for absolute beginners and ultra casuals. Even just normal, average players recognise that something is severely wrong with the difficulty of overland content, and yet somehow we continue to have people on the forums vehemently fighting against something that in no way impacts them, or the absolute beginners and ultra casuals, and I'm still unable to figure out why.
People keep repeating "overland is meant to be for everyone", but from what I can tell, they really mean "overland is meant to be for everyone, except people who actually know how to play the game", because that's the overland design they're trying to protect, where everything is insultingly easy for anyone who has even the slightest clue as to how to play the game. They're for people who have no idea how to play the game having fun, but against the rest of the players having fun, as well.
An optional difficulty increase in no way impacts you or anyone else, so I simply fail to see why you'd be so against it, unless you really do just want overland to be fun for those who have no idea how to play the game. But I don't know, that's just the way it seems to me.6 -
Daemons_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »DosPanchos wrote: »I honestly don’t understand why the forum-questers rage so hard against challenging overland content, but they do, and it’s effective.
I don't understand why others think they have a right to take away the backbone of the game, the storyline quests, from the average players. These quests exclusively take place in overland and no one has a right to have them altered at the expense of others. Not even if it's optional, because that still excludes others.
How the hell does an optional difficulty increase which may or may not have an unimpactful reward increase exclude others any more than any form of questing content already excludes veterans? If anything, it's making the game more inclusionary, because veterans can actually enjoy themselves in overland content without being put to sleep by a lack of engaging gameplay.
Overland content is the story. It's not supposed to be challenging and give dungeon level rewards. That is why we have vet dungeons and trials.
And that story falls flat on its face when veteran players literally have to play while doing something else to avoid falling asleep, or intentionally slow themselves down to a tenth of their normal speed to avoid killing the boss before they even finish their dialogue.
Story is meant to be fun, and currently it's only fun for absolute beginners and ultra casuals. Even just normal, average players recognise that something is severely wrong with the difficulty of overland content, and yet somehow we continue to have people on the forums vehemently fighting against something that in no way impacts them, or the absolute beginners and ultra casuals, and I'm still unable to figure out why.
People keep repeating "overland is meant to be for everyone", but from what I can tell, they really mean "overland is meant to be for everyone, except people who actually know how to play the game", because that's the overland design they're trying to protect, where everything is insultingly easy for anyone who has even the slightest clue as to how to play the game. They're for people who have no idea how to play the game having fun, but against the rest of the players having fun, as well.
An optional difficulty increase in no way impacts you or anyone else, so I simply fail to see why you'd be so against it, unless you really do just want overland to be fun for those who have no idea how to play the game. But I don't know, that's just the way it seems to me.
Stop using "vet players" as your explanation.. can we at least agree that even vet players can be opposed to your ideas9 -
Thechuckage✭✭✭✭✭Someone explain how my having a harder boss in a solo instance in any way affects your game play. Seriously. How does someone amping a boss up for their SOLO STORY have anything to do with you?
I swear the amounts of hyperbole and pearl clutching is amazing.Daemons_Bane wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »DosPanchos wrote: »I honestly don’t understand why the forum-questers rage so hard against challenging overland content, but they do, and it’s effective.
I don't understand why others think they have a right to take away the backbone of the game, the storyline quests, from the average players. These quests exclusively take place in overland and no one has a right to have them altered at the expense of others. Not even if it's optional, because that still excludes others.
How the hell does an optional difficulty increase which may or may not have an unimpactful reward increase exclude others any more than any form of questing content already excludes veterans? If anything, it's making the game more inclusionary, because veterans can actually enjoy themselves in overland content without being put to sleep by a lack of engaging gameplay.
Overland content is the story. It's not supposed to be challenging and give dungeon level rewards. That is why we have vet dungeons and trials.
And that story falls flat on its face when veteran players literally have to play while doing something else to avoid falling asleep, or intentionally slow themselves down to a tenth of their normal speed to avoid killing the boss before they even finish their dialogue.
Story is meant to be fun, and currently it's only fun for absolute beginners and ultra casuals. Even just normal, average players recognise that something is severely wrong with the difficulty of overland content, and yet somehow we continue to have people on the forums vehemently fighting against something that in no way impacts them, or the absolute beginners and ultra casuals, and I'm still unable to figure out why.
People keep repeating "overland is meant to be for everyone", but from what I can tell, they really mean "overland is meant to be for everyone, except people who actually know how to play the game", because that's the overland design they're trying to protect, where everything is insultingly easy for anyone who has even the slightest clue as to how to play the game. They're for people who have no idea how to play the game having fun, but against the rest of the players having fun, as well.
An optional difficulty increase in no way impacts you or anyone else, so I simply fail to see why you'd be so against it, unless you really do just want overland to be fun for those who have no idea how to play the game. But I don't know, that's just the way it seems to me.
Stop using "vet players" as your explanation.. can we at least agree that even vet players can be opposed to your ideas
The thing missing from eKsDee statement was "all vet players" As it is missing, using the generalized term is pretty dang applicable. SOME vet players might want to keep the easy mode on. Therefore some veterans can do so. And anyone who wanted to COULD go for harder.3 -
eKsDee✭✭✭✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »DosPanchos wrote: »I honestly don’t understand why the forum-questers rage so hard against challenging overland content, but they do, and it’s effective.
I don't understand why others think they have a right to take away the backbone of the game, the storyline quests, from the average players. These quests exclusively take place in overland and no one has a right to have them altered at the expense of others. Not even if it's optional, because that still excludes others.
How the hell does an optional difficulty increase which may or may not have an unimpactful reward increase exclude others any more than any form of questing content already excludes veterans? If anything, it's making the game more inclusionary, because veterans can actually enjoy themselves in overland content without being put to sleep by a lack of engaging gameplay.
Overland content is the story. It's not supposed to be challenging and give dungeon level rewards. That is why we have vet dungeons and trials.
And that story falls flat on its face when veteran players literally have to play while doing something else to avoid falling asleep, or intentionally slow themselves down to a tenth of their normal speed to avoid killing the boss before they even finish their dialogue.
Story is meant to be fun, and currently it's only fun for absolute beginners and ultra casuals. Even just normal, average players recognise that something is severely wrong with the difficulty of overland content, and yet somehow we continue to have people on the forums vehemently fighting against something that in no way impacts them, or the absolute beginners and ultra casuals, and I'm still unable to figure out why.
People keep repeating "overland is meant to be for everyone", but from what I can tell, they really mean "overland is meant to be for everyone, except people who actually know how to play the game", because that's the overland design they're trying to protect, where everything is insultingly easy for anyone who has even the slightest clue as to how to play the game. They're for people who have no idea how to play the game having fun, but against the rest of the players having fun, as well.
An optional difficulty increase in no way impacts you or anyone else, so I simply fail to see why you'd be so against it, unless you really do just want overland to be fun for those who have no idea how to play the game. But I don't know, that's just the way it seems to me.
Stop using "vet players" as your explanation.. can we at least agree that even vet players can be opposed to your ideas
So then what would you call the players that have been playing the game long enough to know how it works well enough, to be running through overland content with such little resistance, then? Because I'd call them veteran players.0 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So then what would you call the players that have been playing the game long enough to know how it works well enough, to be running through overland content with such little resistance, then? Because I'd call them veteran players.
What if you roll a new character? They aren't created fully leveled and geared.
PCNA1 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »DosPanchos wrote: »I honestly don’t understand why the forum-questers rage so hard against challenging overland content, but they do, and it’s effective.
I don't understand why others think they have a right to take away the backbone of the game, the storyline quests, from the average players. These quests exclusively take place in overland and no one has a right to have them altered at the expense of others. Not even if it's optional, because that still excludes others.
How the hell does an optional difficulty increase which may or may not have an unimpactful reward increase exclude others any more than any form of questing content already excludes veterans? If anything, it's making the game more inclusionary, because veterans can actually enjoy themselves in overland content without being put to sleep by a lack of engaging gameplay.
Overland content is the story. It's not supposed to be challenging and give dungeon level rewards. That is why we have vet dungeons and trials.
And that story falls flat on its face when veteran players literally have to play while doing something else to avoid falling asleep, or intentionally slow themselves down to a tenth of their normal speed to avoid killing the boss before they even finish their dialogue.
Story is meant to be fun, and currently it's only fun for absolute beginners and ultra casuals. Even just normal, average players recognise that something is severely wrong with the difficulty of overland content, and yet somehow we continue to have people on the forums vehemently fighting against something that in no way impacts them, or the absolute beginners and ultra casuals, and I'm still unable to figure out why.
People keep repeating "overland is meant to be for everyone", but from what I can tell, they really mean "overland is meant to be for everyone, except people who actually know how to play the game", because that's the overland design they're trying to protect, where everything is insultingly easy for anyone who has even the slightest clue as to how to play the game. They're for people who have no idea how to play the game having fun, but against the rest of the players having fun, as well.
An optional difficulty increase in no way impacts you or anyone else, so I simply fail to see why you'd be so against it, unless you really do just want overland to be fun for those who have no idea how to play the game. But I don't know, that's just the way it seems to me.
Stop using "vet players" as your explanation.. can we at least agree that even vet players can be opposed to your ideas
Their passive aggressive insults don't help with their stance either. "You have to be a complete noob or braindead to enjoy overland as is" comments are really getting old. I know exactly where to find the challenging content in eso that's meant for vets.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway9 -
eKsDee✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »So then what would you call the players that have been playing the game long enough to know how it works well enough, to be running through overland content with such little resistance, then? Because I'd call them veteran players.
What if you roll a new character? They aren't created fully leveled and geared.
It's still extremely easy, even without CP, because the entire game world is designed to be digestible by a new player, regardless of whether it's a starter zone, the last alliance zone in the base game, or an expansion zone. No matter where you go, enemies still hit for nothing, and enemies still die to a sneeze. The only problem is sustain, but even then that doesn't really increase difficulty, it just drags fights out and makes them tedious.
Hell, I soloed a Deshaan world boss on a level 43 magblade without CP, on a mix of blue/green half-set-half-random gear, with moderate sustain issues to boot. It took a while and I got close to dying a couple times, but when it takes this to almost kill me in overland on a character with numerous handicaps, something's severely wrong with the difficulty.2 -
Daemons_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »DosPanchos wrote: »I honestly don’t understand why the forum-questers rage so hard against challenging overland content, but they do, and it’s effective.
I don't understand why others think they have a right to take away the backbone of the game, the storyline quests, from the average players. These quests exclusively take place in overland and no one has a right to have them altered at the expense of others. Not even if it's optional, because that still excludes others.
How the hell does an optional difficulty increase which may or may not have an unimpactful reward increase exclude others any more than any form of questing content already excludes veterans? If anything, it's making the game more inclusionary, because veterans can actually enjoy themselves in overland content without being put to sleep by a lack of engaging gameplay.
Overland content is the story. It's not supposed to be challenging and give dungeon level rewards. That is why we have vet dungeons and trials.
And that story falls flat on its face when veteran players literally have to play while doing something else to avoid falling asleep, or intentionally slow themselves down to a tenth of their normal speed to avoid killing the boss before they even finish their dialogue.
Story is meant to be fun, and currently it's only fun for absolute beginners and ultra casuals. Even just normal, average players recognise that something is severely wrong with the difficulty of overland content, and yet somehow we continue to have people on the forums vehemently fighting against something that in no way impacts them, or the absolute beginners and ultra casuals, and I'm still unable to figure out why.
People keep repeating "overland is meant to be for everyone", but from what I can tell, they really mean "overland is meant to be for everyone, except people who actually know how to play the game", because that's the overland design they're trying to protect, where everything is insultingly easy for anyone who has even the slightest clue as to how to play the game. They're for people who have no idea how to play the game having fun, but against the rest of the players having fun, as well.
An optional difficulty increase in no way impacts you or anyone else, so I simply fail to see why you'd be so against it, unless you really do just want overland to be fun for those who have no idea how to play the game. But I don't know, that's just the way it seems to me.
Stop using "vet players" as your explanation.. can we at least agree that even vet players can be opposed to your ideas
So then what would you call the players that have been playing the game long enough to know how it works well enough, to be running through overland content with such little resistance, then? Because I'd call them veteran players.
I said to stop using it as the explanation for being bored, and making it sound like only newbs could find overland entertaining.. I'm as vet as anyone else, and I fight to keep overland as is9 -
Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Exactly. Players who are bored while doing overland are people who simply can't enjoy the story and can only enjoy the difficulty. This has nothing to do with vets.Daemons_Bane wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »DosPanchos wrote: »I honestly don’t understand why the forum-questers rage so hard against challenging overland content, but they do, and it’s effective.
I don't understand why others think they have a right to take away the backbone of the game, the storyline quests, from the average players. These quests exclusively take place in overland and no one has a right to have them altered at the expense of others. Not even if it's optional, because that still excludes others.
How the hell does an optional difficulty increase which may or may not have an unimpactful reward increase exclude others any more than any form of questing content already excludes veterans? If anything, it's making the game more inclusionary, because veterans can actually enjoy themselves in overland content without being put to sleep by a lack of engaging gameplay.
Overland content is the story. It's not supposed to be challenging and give dungeon level rewards. That is why we have vet dungeons and trials.
And that story falls flat on its face when veteran players literally have to play while doing something else to avoid falling asleep, or intentionally slow themselves down to a tenth of their normal speed to avoid killing the boss before they even finish their dialogue.
Story is meant to be fun, and currently it's only fun for absolute beginners and ultra casuals. Even just normal, average players recognise that something is severely wrong with the difficulty of overland content, and yet somehow we continue to have people on the forums vehemently fighting against something that in no way impacts them, or the absolute beginners and ultra casuals, and I'm still unable to figure out why.
People keep repeating "overland is meant to be for everyone", but from what I can tell, they really mean "overland is meant to be for everyone, except people who actually know how to play the game", because that's the overland design they're trying to protect, where everything is insultingly easy for anyone who has even the slightest clue as to how to play the game. They're for people who have no idea how to play the game having fun, but against the rest of the players having fun, as well.
An optional difficulty increase in no way impacts you or anyone else, so I simply fail to see why you'd be so against it, unless you really do just want overland to be fun for those who have no idea how to play the game. But I don't know, that's just the way it seems to me.
Stop using "vet players" as your explanation.. can we at least agree that even vet players can be opposed to your ideas
So then what would you call the players that have been playing the game long enough to know how it works well enough, to be running through overland content with such little resistance, then? Because I'd call them veteran players.
I said to stop using it as the explanation for being bored, and making it sound like only newbs could find overland entertaining.. I'm as vet as anyone else, and I fight to keep overland as isThe Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.5 -
Pixiepumpkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭i think the enemies are good now. some of my characters can kill them fast like the ones when questing. some are too hard though 4 me now so if they were harder i could not kill them."Class identity isn’t just about power or efficiency. It’s about symbolic clarity, mechanical cohesion, and a shared visual and tactical language between players." - sans-culottes1 -
Viem✭✭✭THis is turning into a farse... Why? Because ALL of the people that comment here never even as much as stopped to kill any overland enemy - instead they pass them by as if "invisible" or *nuisance*. It's not about creating casts within ESO : veterans, casuals, newbies, hardcore. Just don't get into that...
This is about creating an insentive to engage with land enemies and what reasons the game gives you to exist in the world, instead of waiting for your queue to pop in a city and or next to a wayshrine. Relic hunting was a breath of fresh air to revitalize the world of ESO, but we need one more step - the enemies as a challenge and rewarding.
Stop talking about things that have absolutely NO basis of logic. Noone is asking about making ANY enemies within the 1-cp 159 levels harder. Enemies SCALE with the player - so can we please stop making arguements about fresh characters or low levels. Besides even if someone does create an new chracater, i am pretty sure they have him geared by their mains crafting skills - at least i do... And lets stop talking about how that or this class has issues with killing enemies. If you roll a a) healer or b) tank and go questing, it's absolutely normal to not be quick in killing them since a) you are supposed to heal dmg and b) you are supposed to mitigate damage. So you can't complain that x enemy is hard for a lets say tank build to kill - it's your choice to mitigate damage man, not deal it. So since you choose it, i suppose you like that type of play.
We gamers/players/people will never grow interest in anything unless there is something to be made out of it. Challenge and reward are reasons to engage into something.
Please stop pretending that there is no problem with the state of land enemies and for the love of whatever you have holy please don't fight change...
Edited by Viem on November 22, 2020 5:44PM1 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why do you care that players don't kill every single mob they run across while playing overland content? Like I said in an earlier reply, a lot of these mobs are there just to fill out the world. They make the world feel more alive. But I don't think they ever intended, or expected that players would feel the need to kill them all.PCNA8 -
Ravensilver✭✭✭✭✭
✭THis is turning into a farse... Why? Because ALL of the people that comment here never even as much as stopped to kill any overland enemy - instead they pass them by as if "invisible" or *nuisance*. It's not about creating casts within ESO : veterans, casuals, newbies, hardcore. Just don't get into that...
This is about creating an insentive to engage with land enemies and what reasons the game gives you to exist in the world, instead of waiting for your queue to pop in a city and or next to a wayshrine. Relic hunting was a breath of fresh air to revitalize the world of ESO, but we need one more step - the enemies as a challenge and rewarding.
Stop talking about things that have absolutely NO basis of logic. Noone is asking about making ANY enemies within the 1-cp 159 levels harder. Enemies SCALE with the player - so can we please stop making arguements about fresh characters or low levels. Besides even if someone does create an new chracater, i am pretty sure they have him geared by their mains crafting skills - at least i do... And lets stop talking about how that or this class has issues with killing enemies. If you roll a a) healer or b) tank and go questing, it's absolutely normal to not be quick in killing them since a) you are supposed to heal dmg and b) you are supposed to mitigate damage. So you can't complain that x enemy is hard for a lets say tank build to kill - it's your choice to mitigate damage man, not deal it. So since you choose it, i suppose you like that type of play.
We gamers/players/people will never grow interest in anything unless there is something to be made out of it. Challenge and reward are reasons to engage into something.
Please stop pretending that there is no problem with the state of land enemies and for the love of whatever you have holy please don't fight change...
Since I've grown tired of your generalisations and demands, I will answer add my comment to this thread.
What I object most strongly to in your various posts, including your original one, is the assumption that *ALL* players do this and *ALL* players do that and *ALL* players want what you want.
I don't.
I played ESO in beta. I played ESO before One Tamriel. I took a break, came back, and am very much enjoying the current version of ESO.
I'm one of those despised 'casual' players. Why? Because I have a life. I have a company that I run. I have a family. I have house and cats and friends and obligations and hobbies. And somewhere in there, I also play ESO.
You know what I do some evenings, when the day has been particularily long and the work frustrating? I wander through Tamriel, picking flowers. Opening chests (I *love* chests). Stealing stuff. Digging up antiquities. Doing my crafting dailies. Maybe adding my sword to a WB or two, if I feel like it. Maybe I'll work on one of my (many) houses. Or I'll do quests in one of the areas that I haven't cleared yet. Or I'll run a delve or two, maybe a PD, if I feel like it, or even test myself in doing a Group dungeon solo (not on vet, though).
I don't raid, unless it is during one of the non-vet raid evenings that one of my guilds offers. I don't do vet in anything, if I can avoid it. I don't do group trials.
And I avoid most overland enemies, unless they're in the way of a chest or a node. Why? Because they take time away from other stuff that I want to do ingame (see the list above). And to be honest, I'm *quite* happy not having to bash every single entity that I meet in the game over the head in an epic bossfight. I'd go insane... >.>
Why no daily VRaids? Why no vet content? Why do I avoid most encounters ingame? Because it would require a degree of time and commitment that I am no longer able and willing to invest (there was a time that I did that, enjoyed it and all that went with it, but that time is over).
Perhaps that time and commitment is available to you.
Wonderful.
More power to you.
Enjoy it while it lasts.
You see... I come here, into this game, to get *away* from all those challenges that I face in real life daily.
But because you seem not to have enough challenges in *your* life, you are now *demanding* that I, and others like me, bow down to *your* idea of what the game should be like.
Perhaps the idea of being able to *volutarily* change the difficulty of the game for those like you who don't feel challenged enough with what is currently implemented, isn't a bad idea.
But don't presume to judge and demand for *all* of us.
I am sure the ESO offes a great deal of challenging content for all its myriad players. If this is not enough for you, perhaps a change of scenery (-> game) might be in order? Perhaps you can find what you are looking for somewhere else?
Signed,
a 'Casual'.11 -
Grandchamp1989✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ravensilver wrote: »THis is turning into a farse... Why? Because ALL of the people that comment here never even as much as stopped to kill any overland enemy - instead they pass them by as if "invisible" or *nuisance*. It's not about creating casts within ESO : veterans, casuals, newbies, hardcore. Just don't get into that...
This is about creating an insentive to engage with land enemies and what reasons the game gives you to exist in the world, instead of waiting for your queue to pop in a city and or next to a wayshrine. Relic hunting was a breath of fresh air to revitalize the world of ESO, but we need one more step - the enemies as a challenge and rewarding.
Stop talking about things that have absolutely NO basis of logic. Noone is asking about making ANY enemies within the 1-cp 159 levels harder. Enemies SCALE with the player - so can we please stop making arguements about fresh characters or low levels. Besides even if someone does create an new chracater, i am pretty sure they have him geared by their mains crafting skills - at least i do... And lets stop talking about how that or this class has issues with killing enemies. If you roll a a) healer or b) tank and go questing, it's absolutely normal to not be quick in killing them since a) you are supposed to heal dmg and b) you are supposed to mitigate damage. So you can't complain that x enemy is hard for a lets say tank build to kill - it's your choice to mitigate damage man, not deal it. So since you choose it, i suppose you like that type of play.
We gamers/players/people will never grow interest in anything unless there is something to be made out of it. Challenge and reward are reasons to engage into something.
Please stop pretending that there is no problem with the state of land enemies and for the love of whatever you have holy please don't fight change...
Since I've grown tired of your generalisations and demands, I will answer add my comment to this thread.
What I object most strongly to in your various posts, including your original one, is the assumption that *ALL* players do this and *ALL* players do that and *ALL* players want what you want.
I don't.
I played ESO in beta. I played ESO before One Tamriel. I took a break, came back, and am very much enjoying the current version of ESO.
I'm one of those despised 'casual' players. Why? Because I have a life. I have a company that I run. I have a family. I have house and cats and friends and obligations and hobbies. And somewhere in there, I also play ESO.
You know what I do some evenings, when the day has been particularily long and the work frustrating? I wander through Tamriel, picking flowers. Opening chests (I *love* chests). Stealing stuff. Digging up antiquities. Doing my crafting dailies. Maybe adding my sword to a WB or two, if I feel like it. Maybe I'll work on one of my (many) houses. Or I'll do quests in one of the areas that I haven't cleared yet. Or I'll run a delve or two, maybe a PD, if I feel like it, or even test myself in doing a Group dungeon solo (not on vet, though).
I don't raid, unless it is during one of the non-vet raid evenings that one of my guilds offers. I don't do vet in anything, if I can avoid it. I don't do group trials.
And I avoid most overland enemies, unless they're in the way of a chest or a node. Why? Because they take time away from other stuff that I want to do ingame (see the list above). And to be honest, I'm *quite* happy not having to bash every single entity that I meet in the game over the head in an epic bossfight. I'd go insane... >.>
Why no daily VRaids? Why no vet content? Why do I avoid most encounters ingame? Because it would require a degree of time and commitment that I am no longer able and willing to invest (there was a time that I did that, enjoyed it and all that went with it, but that time is over).
Perhaps that time and commitment is available to you.
Wonderful.
More power to you.
Enjoy it while it lasts.
You see... I come here, into this game, to get *away* from all those challenges that I face in real life daily.
But because you seem not to have enough challenges in *your* life, you are now *demanding* that I, and others like me, bow down to *your* idea of what the game should be like.
Perhaps the idea of being able to *volutarily* change the difficulty of the game for those like you who don't feel challenged enough with what is currently implemented, isn't a bad idea.
But don't presume to judge and demand for *all* of us.
I am sure the ESO offes a great deal of challenging content for all its myriad players. If this is not enough for you, perhaps a change of scenery (-> game) might be in order? Perhaps you can find what you are looking for somewhere else?
Signed,
a 'Casual'.
Everybody has more or less time to play ESO.
We got roleplayers, explorers, questers, PVP'ers and and people doing vet trials and dungeons.
All is great.
I don't agree with you that you're casual because you got other commitments.
The time you spend to see Tamriel, take nodes, stealing, open quests, doing antiquities (your own words) etc. could be spend on a target dummy learning a rotation instead and giving it a try in a dungeon once in awhile.
You're not able to do it because you "lack time" (since you obviously play ESO). An hour or two a week on a target dummy would make you a mean parser quite fast to be honest.
You're not able to do it because your prioritize your time playing differently. And that is perfectly fine
The idea that people who do vet content no-life ESO is just a crude a mindset.
I'm of the opinion that alienating people who prioritize their time differently than you from harder content (which can be implemented so it has NO consequences on you) is just shoe-horning them. Shoe-horning peoplke for no good reason other than it might make some people feel inadequate. But that's an issue between them and... them. Otherwise you're just asking people to play small and that's not really fair.4 -
hexentb16_ESO✭✭✭✭I have had high hopes for this expansion regarding enemies in ESO. I mean given the nature of the vampires and the lore behind the Dwemer i was hoping we would get a series of harder hitting enemies in : a) Open world - enemies wth higher HP/armor with better loot (green/blue gear drops) and challenging world bosses (blue/purple gear drops).
b) Dwelves - higher HP/Armor enemies plus challenging dwelve end bosses (blue/purple gear drops)
c) Public Dungeons - even higher HP/armor enemies, challenging bosses (purple and -extremely low chance of- gold gear drops plus high quality resourses drop)
My idea is not one of turning the game into an endless camping of bosses for gear or resources -people do this already and regardless of the state of the ememy- that's not the point here. The point here is challenge and the feeling the game leaves you from each fight and the world in general.
As it is right now, all enemies are trivial, giving you no incentive whatsoever to fight them, thus turning them into a nuissance that almost ALL players avoid in their path. I strongly believe by making enemies more challenging and rewarding (loot-wise) it will highly boost players satisfaction.
So....you want another Craglorn?
I'm both for and against this. I've been playing since pc beta and am 810. I can one shot any standard overworld enemy, can 3 shot the more difficult ones, and quickly solo world bosses.
The new players still struggle with standard enemies though.
Maybe they should make central skyrim the next Craglorn.0 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭With all due respect, I don't want to constantly have to fight mobs when I'm transversing overland picking flowers and harvesting other goodies. The same mobs I avoid now that are trivial will be avoided just as much or more due to them now being tedious, something even worse.
Optional you say? It won't affect other players? Any dev time spent on this feature for the minority who want it is dev time that could be used for features or fixes that affect the majority, which is casual.
Especially since what they'd most likely implement is a simple buff to enemy health/power or a simple debuff to the players because it's the most cost effective, something one can already do by down grading all that golded out gear they're rocking.
In what world do you people think they'd expend any resources redoing movesets on old content or something similar that will yield little to no profit? It's a pipe dream that the suits who actually call the shots will never greenlight.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway8 -
Ravensilver✭✭✭✭✭
✭Grandchamp1989 wrote: »
You're not able to do it because you "lack time" (since you obviously play ESO). An hour or two a week on a target dummy would make you a mean parser quite fast to be honest.
Actually, it will not. There are (health) restrictions that I work under that preclude my ever becoming faster than I am now. And I wouldn't be surprised if I'm not the only one.
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spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They just gave us Vet Vateshran Hollows. It's basically a big solo delve with lots of cool challenges and new gear to farm, plus achieves. I think they are doing a decent job offering some new challenging content while keeping the main game accessible to new players. The challenging content will be instance based usually. Or try soloing harrow storms.
This. They even toned down the Harrowstorms because casuals already weren't doing them.
Quests/delves are for new players and very casual players or solo players. Overland bosses and world events are for mid tier players, as is normal mode of instanced content. And vet content is for established players, with vet achievements and dlc trials for endgame elite raiders.
They have a mix of content. Something for everyone. If you aren't fulfilled with the overland, it may be time to upgrade your eso journey to harder content or level an alt.4 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ravensilver wrote: »Grandchamp1989 wrote: »
You're not able to do it because you "lack time" (since you obviously play ESO). An hour or two a week on a target dummy would make you a mean parser quite fast to be honest.
Actually, it will not. There are (health) restrictions that I work under that preclude my ever becoming faster than I am now. And I wouldn't be surprised if I'm not the only one.
Yep. I'm 73 - and my reflexes are no longer those of a youngster. So what little weaving I can do (which sometimes is a problem not only from lack of reflexes but my satellite mega ping as well) is as good as it gets. Yes, I'm much better at it all now than I was 2.5 years ago when I first started playing, but I'm pretty sure what I do now is not going to get a lot better.
I would be better at WoW and RIFT - but I'm not going back to them, as they went in directions I wasn't going to find fun....2 -
Viem✭✭✭Ravensilver wrote: »THis is turning into a farse... Why? Because ALL of the people that comment here never even as much as stopped to kill any overland enemy - instead they pass them by as if "invisible" or *nuisance*. It's not about creating casts within ESO : veterans, casuals, newbies, hardcore. Just don't get into that...
This is about creating an insentive to engage with land enemies and what reasons the game gives you to exist in the world, instead of waiting for your queue to pop in a city and or next to a wayshrine. Relic hunting was a breath of fresh air to revitalize the world of ESO, but we need one more step - the enemies as a challenge and rewarding.
Stop talking about things that have absolutely NO basis of logic. Noone is asking about making ANY enemies within the 1-cp 159 levels harder. Enemies SCALE with the player - so can we please stop making arguements about fresh characters or low levels. Besides even if someone does create an new chracater, i am pretty sure they have him geared by their mains crafting skills - at least i do... And lets stop talking about how that or this class has issues with killing enemies. If you roll a a) healer or b) tank and go questing, it's absolutely normal to not be quick in killing them since a) you are supposed to heal dmg and b) you are supposed to mitigate damage. So you can't complain that x enemy is hard for a lets say tank build to kill - it's your choice to mitigate damage man, not deal it. So since you choose it, i suppose you like that type of play.
We gamers/players/people will never grow interest in anything unless there is something to be made out of it. Challenge and reward are reasons to engage into something.
Please stop pretending that there is no problem with the state of land enemies and for the love of whatever you have holy please don't fight change...
Since I've grown tired of your generalisations and demands, I will answer add my comment to this thread.
What I object most strongly to in your various posts, including your original one, is the assumption that *ALL* players do this and *ALL* players do that and *ALL* players want what you want.
I don't.
I played ESO in beta. I played ESO before One Tamriel. I took a break, came back, and am very much enjoying the current version of ESO.
I'm one of those despised 'casual' players. Why? Because I have a life. I have a company that I run. I have a family. I have house and cats and friends and obligations and hobbies. And somewhere in there, I also play ESO.
You know what I do some evenings, when the day has been particularily long and the work frustrating? I wander through Tamriel, picking flowers. Opening chests (I *love* chests). Stealing stuff. Digging up antiquities. Doing my crafting dailies. Maybe adding my sword to a WB or two, if I feel like it. Maybe I'll work on one of my (many) houses. Or I'll do quests in one of the areas that I haven't cleared yet. Or I'll run a delve or two, maybe a PD, if I feel like it, or even test myself in doing a Group dungeon solo (not on vet, though).
I don't raid, unless it is during one of the non-vet raid evenings that one of my guilds offers. I don't do vet in anything, if I can avoid it. I don't do group trials.
And I avoid most overland enemies, unless they're in the way of a chest or a node. Why? Because they take time away from other stuff that I want to do ingame (see the list above). And to be honest, I'm *quite* happy not having to bash every single entity that I meet in the game over the head in an epic bossfight. I'd go insane... >.>
Why no daily VRaids? Why no vet content? Why do I avoid most encounters ingame? Because it would require a degree of time and commitment that I am no longer able and willing to invest (there was a time that I did that, enjoyed it and all that went with it, but that time is over).
Perhaps that time and commitment is available to you.
Wonderful.
More power to you.
Enjoy it while it lasts.
You see... I come here, into this game, to get *away* from all those challenges that I face in real life daily.
But because you seem not to have enough challenges in *your* life, you are now *demanding* that I, and others like me, bow down to *your* idea of what the game should be like.
Perhaps the idea of being able to *volutarily* change the difficulty of the game for those like you who don't feel challenged enough with what is currently implemented, isn't a bad idea.
But don't presume to judge and demand for *all* of us.
I am sure the ESO offes a great deal of challenging content for all its myriad players. If this is not enough for you, perhaps a change of scenery (-> game) might be in order? Perhaps you can find what you are looking for somewhere else?
Signed,
a 'Casual'.
I don't get how all your activities will change if let's say the same enemies that you have been ignoring all this time are more of a challenge... You said it yourself that you don't care about that aspect.
You also said many other things, perhaps pressuming that this forum is a stage for posting real life achievements or your curriculum vitae to, i don't know, maybe get a career in ZoS since you are a competent businessman with a company. If you go into a conversation about what i could do, or if i could change games or whatever, i would suggest you to go play Animal Crossing and keep picking flowers. Don't pressume that you can engage in an attempt to offend me, by assuming anything about my life. Get a grip of yourself company-man.
To go back to my original idea, you simply proove my point exactly : you want the world to be *invisible* so you can go by your thing. I don't understand how people who don't care about something, are fighting so hard for that something not to change. Let me clarify it a bit for you : the same mobs you have been ignoring ALL this time, will be just more rewarding and challenging for anyone who wants to engage them...
Surely a person with your skills and talents in handling a challenging real life can comprehend it? I mean if you can't comprehend mechanics in an artificial world, how could you ever compete with the real ones...
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Viem✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Why do you care that players don't kill every single mob they run across while playing overland content? Like I said in an earlier reply, a lot of these mobs are there just to fill out the world. They make the world feel more alive. But I don't think they ever intended, or expected that players would feel the need to kill them all.
You are contradicting yourself : How can a world feel alive, when the elements of that world are "empty". Mate i told you from the start, you are just a rhetoric naysayer. You disagree, just to disagree with empty arguements. And i am gonna ask you like i asked others : why do you fight change on something that you don't care about..?0 -
Ravensilver✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't get how all your activities will change if let's say the same enemies that you have been ignoring all this time are more of a challenge... You said it yourself that you don't care about that aspect.
I attempted to explain to you that there are other activities in ESO that are equally important to the game and that would certainly suffer if players had to fight epic boss fights for every resource node that they find.You also said many other things, perhaps pressuming that this forum is a stage for posting real life achievements or your curriculum vitae to, i don't know, maybe get a career in ZoS since you are a competent businessman with a company.
If you go into a conversation about what i could do, or if i could change games or whatever, i would suggest you to go play Animal Crossing and keep picking flowers. Don't pressume that you can engage in an attempt to offend me, by assuming anything about my life. Get a grip of yourself company-man.
1. I am a woman.
2. "...by assuming anything about my life". - This is precisely what you have done. You have made assumptions about me without knowing a single thing. I attempted to put my arguments into perspective. You prefer to react agressively, instead. I do think I have a *very* good grip on myself. Which is not something that can be said of you, since you seem to see my attempt at calmly explaining my thinking as a attack on yourself.
3. Why should I play another game just because the way ESO is currently being offered is not enough for *you*? It's enough for me, just as it it right now. And, seeing as I'm a paying customer and regularly playing citizen of Tamriel, I have just as much right to put forth my opinion on the matter - and it has just as much *worth* as yours - as you do.To go back to my original idea, you simply proove my point exactly : you want the world to be *invisible* so you can go by your thing. I don't understand how people who don't care about something, are fighting so hard for that something not to change. Let me clarify it a bit for you : the same mobs you have been ignoring ALL this time, will be just more rewarding and challenging for anyone who wants to engage them...
Where did you get the impression that I was *ignoring* the world? I interact with all parts of Tamriel just as you do. That I *choose* not to always interact, is quite as valid as *your* choice to always interact. It is a *game* which offers a variety of playing styles and I have mine. It is equally valid as the style of someone who prefers to spend their days in Tamriel doing World Bosses in series.Surely a person with your skills and talents in handling a challenging real life can comprehend it? I mean if you can't comprehend mechanics in an artificial world, how could you ever compete with the real ones...
I think you should go have a cup of tea, take some *very* deep breaths and rethink what you just wrote. You are starting to be very agressive and offensive, simply because not everyone bows down to your idea of what the game is supposed to be like. You may want to take a step back and rethink your arguments. Don't start getting personal, it's not the way to get other people to consider your arguments.
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SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Why do you care that players don't kill every single mob they run across while playing overland content? Like I said in an earlier reply, a lot of these mobs are there just to fill out the world. They make the world feel more alive. But I don't think they ever intended, or expected that players would feel the need to kill them all.
You are contradicting yourself : How can a world feel alive, when the elements of that world are "empty".
I am trying to understand your perspective, but honestly I find it baffling. I've played a lot of MMOs and not a single one expected you to kill every single mob you ever ran across. Nor have I ever seen another post in any other game complaining that the world felt dead and was "invisible" because every player wasn't killing every mob in the open world. This game is no different in that perspective.
And I don't know what you mean by elements of the world being "empty". I see mobs all over the place, plus non combat animals like elk, and deer, and mudcrabs just to name a few. How is this an empty world? And how would making the mobs you claim aren't even there harder make the world more full to you? How does riding past a mob over by the side of the road and not getting off my mount and killing it making the world empty?
When someone is riding to a harrowstorm, or a world boss, or to a delve to do a quest, how does riding past a random mob milling around by a rock mean the world is empty? I really don't understand your reasoning.PCNA4 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Why do you care that players don't kill every single mob they run across while playing overland content? Like I said in an earlier reply, a lot of these mobs are there just to fill out the world. They make the world feel more alive. But I don't think they ever intended, or expected that players would feel the need to kill them all.
You are contradicting yourself : How can a world feel alive, when the elements of that world are "empty".
I am trying to understand your perspective, but honestly I find it baffling. I've played a lot of MMOs and not a single one expected you to kill every single mob you ever ran across. Nor have I ever seen another post in any other game complaining that the world felt dead and was "invisible" because every player wasn't killing every mob in the open world. This game is no different in that perspective.
And I don't know what you mean by elements of the world being "empty". I see mobs all over the place, plus non combat animals like elk, and deer, and mudcrabs just to name a few. How is this an empty world? And how would making the mobs you claim aren't even there harder make the world more full to you? How does riding past a mob over by the side of the road and not getting off my mount and killing it making the world empty?
When someone is riding to a harrowstorm, or a world boss, or to a delve to do a quest, how does riding past a random mob milling around by a rock mean the world is empty? I really don't understand your reasoning.
I definitely identify with your post @SilverBride. I've spent the years since 2006 (when I started playing WoW, then moving on to RIFT and now ESO) in MMOs trying NOT to have to kill every mob in a zone just to get to a given goal or POI or node. Sometimes it's been hard (Shadowfen and Murkmire I'm looking at you) - because mobs are so packed gill to gill that if you go around one, you step right on another.
I have never seen the point of killing everything that's anywhere close to me. I've never needed (since WoW vanilla that is) mob xp to get anything important. Quests - those are what I do, and where I get xp (well, and in this game, Master Writs....)
When I was running four characters for Master Fisherman, there were zones which were the bane of my existence (not Cyrodiil, not at all!) because you couldn't find a place to stand to fish without having to kill a bunch of mobs - AND they respawned before the hole was dry!
/grumblegrumble get off mah lawn.... or something....4 -
Ravensilver✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Sylvermynx
Thank you.
I also agree with both your and @SilverBride's post.
Only because I *choose* not to kill every mob in sight doesn't mean that the world is empty. Or being ignored. I'm *quite* aware of those *alsjsfljsla* saber cats sitting right on my survey spot. I would *much* rather not have to deal with them, but I do, because I want what is there.
In other instances, I will run slalom around mobs, because I want to get to something better - a dragon, a harrowstorm, a WB in progress.
I don't *want* to have to engage with every single mob out there. And I certainly don't want each and every single mob, from the mudcrab to the World Boss, to all be equally hard to defeat. It would take me hours just to get from one spot to the next, because I'd never stop fighting.
Now, for some, that might be lots of fun.
For others, like me, it is not.
The game has to accomodate all of us, because it needs *all* of us as paying customers, or there wouldn't *be* a game.
As I've said earlier, an option - perhaps something like a scroll or a slider or something - that will permit you to adjust the difficulty of the game for yourself would perhaps not be a bad idea. As long as it is an optional mode and not a requirement.
And... even more important... as long as the *rewards* for playing the base game on higher difficulty stay the same. I'm not talking about the higher difficulty content that is already implemented: vet, hard mode, 12 person trials etc. I know and realize that the rewards being offered in these will never be mine. My acceptance is two-fold: One: I will never be good enough to play those contents for a variety of reasons. Two: I don't want to spend the time and effort neccessary to become good enough, again for a variety of reasons.
So. The rewards for that content will forever be beyond my reach. And that is ok.
But not in the base game. That *must* stay accessable (including its rewards) to all players, imho. Because it's the base game that brings in the paying customers. Not neccessarily the hard mode stuff.
Don't forget: a company like ZOS *lives* from the money it earns from the 'casual', the 'people not willing to put in the effort', the 'snowflakes that want it easy', the ones that just enjoy the base game with all it has to offer (and obviously it has enough to offer to make Microsoft pay 7.5 billion $$ for it - ok, for Bethesda... but we're a part of that).
I can't help you, @Viem, with your frustration.
Perhaps taking some time off might help? Spending some time to look closer at why you chose ESO as your main game? Shop around for a game that might come closer to your wants and demands?
5 -
ivelbob✭✭✭When the game is difficult (like Dark Souls-like games) and some players ask for an optional Easy mode, arguing that it doesn't impact others' experience, Difficulty Lovers say "no, even the option would compromise the artistic vision of the devs." But when ESO's overland content is easy, Difficulty Lovers are clamoring for an optional Hard mode and better rewards - so that's how it is.
3