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Why wasn't vampire touched at all during this patch?

  • Xargas13
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    Vampire definitely needs a buff, since Greymoor it got a nerf, not a buff.

    You are forced to use abilities that barely has any use, and that's while having only one skill tree, there isn't much to pick there from. Now at stage 4 we not only have no health regen., but also increased cost on non vampire abilities, and In addition we take more flame damage, but oh look, we can turn invisible after running for 4 seconds, so cewl hah, it definitely makes up for everything :P And look at that vampire set, it's so awesome, it increased your debuffs, but increases your buffs, but you have to find buffs first, and if you do please tell me, I'm still looking :expressionless:

    I don't know, who ever created it all, but he/she must have been so high, and those who decided to implement it were even higher :smiley:
  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
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    [*] Turn Hypnosis into a Turn Evil clone (unblockable, AoE stun) that applies an additional de-buff if the targets are facing you.
    [*] Make Stupefy into either the bat-cloud gap-closer that NPC vampires use or a teleport/blink ability or a bat-swarm version of Streak (provides mobility for PvP).
    [*] Give Mist Form Minor Expedition as part of the base morph or provide Minor Expedition via the Unnatural Movement passive.
    [*] Make Blood Mist scale with stats and do either Bleed or Magic Damage (again, so Stamina vampires can use it).
    [/list]

    Like them all, although I feel like the thing with Hypnosis and Stupefy is... odd personally. I actually use stupefy since in the rare cases it works that 5 seconds of snare can be very powerful in PVP since it cannot be simply dodge roll purged like Immobilize is. Some people feel like the gap closer bat thing should be something to replace Blood Frenzy or at least one of its morphs. (Or even one morph of mistform.)

    Honestly it could swing either way but what ideas do you have for the additional debuff if the target is looking at you? Applying vulnerability maybe so they take more damage? Maybe if it targets a trash mob it gets converted to your side until combat ends?
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
  • Nova_J
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    Vevvev wrote: »
    [*] Turn Hypnosis into a Turn Evil clone (unblockable, AoE stun) that applies an additional de-buff if the targets are facing you.
    [*] Make Stupefy into either the bat-cloud gap-closer that NPC vampires use or a teleport/blink ability or a bat-swarm version of Streak (provides mobility for PvP).
    [*] Give Mist Form Minor Expedition as part of the base morph or provide Minor Expedition via the Unnatural Movement passive.
    [*] Make Blood Mist scale with stats and do either Bleed or Magic Damage (again, so Stamina vampires can use it).
    [/list]

    Like them all, although I feel like the thing with Hypnosis and Stupefy is... odd personally. I actually use stupefy since in the rare cases it works that 5 seconds of snare can be very powerful in PVP since it cannot be simply dodge roll purged like Immobilize is. Some people feel like the gap closer bat thing should be something to replace Blood Frenzy or at least one of its morphs. (Or even one morph of mistform.)

    Honestly it could swing either way but what ideas do you have for the additional debuff if the target is looking at you? Applying vulnerability maybe so they take more damage? Maybe if it targets a trash mob it gets converted to your side until combat ends?

    Maybe the stun should provide a unique debuff? An effect that drains magicka, health and stamina to the user. Maybe 100 recovery each? Or make the offensive stat recovery buff scale with highest resource pool?
    Edited by Nova_J on October 23, 2020 2:57AM
  • Sephyr
    Sephyr
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    Vevvev wrote: »
    Sephyr wrote: »

    For starters, most only use one or two abilities, including the ultimate, and literally stay at Stage 1-2. Stage 3 with three or more abilities, excluding the ultimate is uncommon.

    Yeah, my build is very uncommon lol! Farthest I've managed to dip into vampirisim and still be able to slug it out with everyone else on the fields of Cyrodiil. Reason I go stage 3 is because at 80% health the damage mitigation from Undeath is the same as a Major Resolve buff, which means if you have Major Resolve its effectively doubled.

    Also at that stage the flame damage isn't that bad and I'm actually more worried about getting smited with a Dawnbreaker. o_o

    Stages 3-4 are the only stages where picking Arterial Burst is better for your sustain than picking up something like Flame Lash, Force Pulse, and Elemental Weapon. Even then when you punch in the numbers your sustain would be better if you just dumped vampire entirely. :#

    It seems to be very awkward when the overall themes of some of these builds is more class-themed rather than vampire. Especially the ones that stay Stage 1 and use the Ultimate. Like... I find myself underwhelmed with the supposed "possibilities" that there were. That's not to say that there aren't possibilities, it's just that those possibilities are hard to make possible due to physical limitations that you literally cannot build around. If vampires can't get buffs procced from group heals, they're not benefiting from the group. I've been kicked out of PuGs because of that too. Because I'm using the vampire toolkit, insecure healers are upset that they can't "heal" me, despite me pulling almost 60-65% of the group damage and dying less than the other DPS. PvP is at least becoming a better experience, even with the horrendous performance issues and testing.

    But yeah. Most of the arguments from folks I see is "You actually have to build a vampire" and I've only seen two that just barely resemble a vampire build. What's sad is that the Sorc build tried harder than the Nightblade build. With the flame damage, it's been pretty negligible for me. I can usually tell when a Dawnbreaker is coming so I pop into Mist Form to take that to the face. I'm tempted to try Mist Form after being hit in the face with one and see if it mitigates the DoT damage. If so, that's going to be funny.

    With Stage 4, and why I stay there, is because if I'm going to be one, I'm going to commit. It definitely made Arterial Burst a cheaper spammable, but my DoTs suffered because of it. Reduction Costs drop your damage even more, so I've had to find regen sets that have damage. Sometimes I'll feel brave enough and use Fury, but if Ring of the Pale Order comes out, I'm sacking my monster set to try and get Simmering Frenzy working. While I love how the damage boost helps with the sets, I'd really love to try to use the other abilities and not immediately die because it's clunky to use. I definitely agree. After number punching; sustain, and even in some cases damage, is better without because it's rough to keep those buffs up without throwing off other things.
  • Vayln_Ninetails
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    Vevvev wrote: »
    [*] Turn Hypnosis into a Turn Evil clone (unblockable, AoE stun) that applies an additional de-buff if the targets are facing you.
    [*] Make Stupefy into either the bat-cloud gap-closer that NPC vampires use or a teleport/blink ability or a bat-swarm version of Streak (provides mobility for PvP).
    [*] Give Mist Form Minor Expedition as part of the base morph or provide Minor Expedition via the Unnatural Movement passive.
    [*] Make Blood Mist scale with stats and do either Bleed or Magic Damage (again, so Stamina vampires can use it).
    [/list]

    Like them all, although I feel like the thing with Hypnosis and Stupefy is... odd personally. I actually use stupefy since in the rare cases it works that 5 seconds of snare can be very powerful in PVP since it cannot be simply dodge roll purged like Immobilize is. Some people feel like the gap closer bat thing should be something to replace Blood Frenzy or at least one of its morphs. (Or even one morph of mistform.)

    Honestly it could swing either way but what ideas do you have for the additional debuff if the target is looking at you? Applying vulnerability maybe so they take more damage? Maybe if it targets a trash mob it gets converted to your side until combat ends?

    Honestly I'd sacrifice a morph in mesmerize for the bat ability. Although I do agree replacing blood frenzy would be better.

    As Blood Frenzy is NOT lore friendly to vampires. We aren't bloodfiends. It is ignored by Lamae oddly when she's teaching us the skills and to my knowledge isn't present literally on any other vampire in lore or acknowledged at all. However, I still don't really like Yandere's suggestion for blood frenzy. The skill needs to be removed or changed in function entirely until it makes in lore sense.

    A vampire bringing themselves to the brink of death for a minimal amount of power makes no sense in ES.
    Edited by Vayln_Ninetails on October 23, 2020 5:03AM
  • Weesacs
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    As someone who has mained a magplar vampire since Greymoor came out and have tested the vampire skills here are my observations thus far on them from a PvP perspective ... note the following setup I use (context is important):

    - im always level 4
    - balrogh / vampire lord / war maiden
    - 2 heavy 5 light
    - Class: Breton

    Swarming Scion: I love this ultimate. Great pressure when it pops and hits like a truck with my setup and it only costs 194 ultimate. I havent tried the other morph however it does look pretty bad.

    Blood for blood: I love this skill and use it over arterial burst and jabs. The reason being is that it helps with my sustain as it costs health and not magicka. If you're struggling with BfB then using blood alter for minor lifesteal or use reduction cost glyphs will help.

    Blood frenzy: I don't use this as the spell damage from war maiden covers the spell damage I need for the build and is also much more safer and forgiving. I could see frenzy working on a heavy armour / higher health build but I found that it's quite buggy to use when I've used it as it doesn't always switch off and in a PvP environment this is too much risk.

    Vampire drain: Most useless skill IMO. The less I say about it the better. Needs replaced or reworked. Only place in PvP where it's useful is on a ranged build standing behind a ball group to gain ultimate or stamina. The damage and heal is a complete joke.

    Mesmerize: this skill is ok ... when it works. I feel like it bugs sometimes and doesn't CC when it should. I don't use it as I use toppling charge as my cc / gap closer. Personally, I'd have one morph a close CC and the other a gap closer to let the user choose what they want.

    Mist form: I like both morphs and I personally use blood mist as it allows me to keep alive around mobs in IC when im getting attacked or building up ultimate. Only problem with the skill, which I have complained about numerous times is that it doesn't always work first time and you need to spam it to work. This should have been fixed by now.

    The passives: I love the passives. Being able to sprint and hide is great when scouring the IC for flags and enemies.

    The negatives of vampire I.e. increased fire damage and cost increase I don't feel affect me too much as I can either mist through fire damage or purge any fire dots with extended ritual. Being a breton with 7% cost reduction also helps.

    I'm not going to talk about the vampire lore as I don't know enough about it and there are already enough discussions about what is right and wrong im this area.

    Ive managed to get vampire to work pretty well on my magplar in PvP and if they just fixed the bugs then I would be happy. However I do understand why people aren't happy with the vampire rework and I totally get it.

    Lastly, to compare vampire with werewolf then werewolf is just better overall. Either nerf werewolf or give vamps the ability to stay in scion form like werewolves.

    Edited by Weesacs on October 23, 2020 9:33AM
    High Elf Templar
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  • Vevvev
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    Sephyr wrote: »
    I've been kicked out of PuGs because of that too. Because I'm using the vampire toolkit, insecure healers are upset that they can't "heal" me, despite me pulling almost 60-65% of the group damage and dying less than the other DPS. PvP is at least becoming a better experience, even with the horrendous performance issues and testing.

    I have yet to be kicked because I simply refuse to let myself die, and I usually play the healer so its rare for me to DPS in a group. That being said in the open world I've run into a lot of insecure healers running after me trying to "save me" and its gotten actually incredibly infuriating.

    Being a vampire at stage 4 and trying to hit the biggest numbers you can with your spammable actually ends up giving you a hatred for healers... Its quite sad really and they get all angry when I tell them to stop healing me. I know one of my RP friends I was helping when I told them to stop healing me almost broke down in tears because they believed the only thing they were good for was healing since they didn't know how to DPS. :disappointed:
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
  • Jameson18
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    Vevvev wrote: »
    Jameson18 wrote: »
    Also, I question whether undeath is actually functioning. If not doing the opposite.

    I've done a lot of testing and it works just fine. Problem is I don't know when its doing its damage reduction calculation so I have no idea how effective it really is. All I know is the lower my health goes the less damage I take and technically at 50% health its supposed to be 15% damage reduction. When you actually think about it 15% is a very small number which is why some people think it doesn't work.

    Good point. Especially with all the burst that flies around. Could be leap frogging the higher mitigation point.
  • ParaViking
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    There morph choices for most of the vampire skills are largely redundant and could easily be merged in order to create room for some of the popular requests (e.g. gap-closer, unique DoT, party heal, etc.) that would help to fill in the blank spots in the sub-class toolkit.
    • Have Blood for Blood scale with highest stats (so usable for Stamina vampires).
    • Make Arterial Burst ranged and scale with highest stats (so usable for ranged classes and Stamina vampires).
    • Keep Sated Fury as-is.
    • Turn Simmering Frenzy into a Ring of the Pale Order-like group heal that heals allies in range for a % of your total damage dealt (gives healers an option from the class).
    • Keep Exhilarating Drain as-is.
    • Make Drain Vigor into a class DoT that behaves like Soul Trap and does either Bleed or Magic Damage depending upon which stats are highest (fills in DPS toolkit and allows Stamina vampires to use it as well).
    • Turn Hypnosis into a Turn Evil clone (unblockable, AoE stun) that applies an additional de-buff if the targets are facing you.
    • Make Stupefy into either the bat-cloud gap-closer that NPC vampires use or a teleport/blink ability or a bat-swarm version of Streak (provides mobility for PvP).
    • Give Mist Form Minor Expedition as part of the base morph or provide Minor Expedition via the Unnatural Movement passive.
    • Make Blood Mist scale with stats and do either Bleed or Magic Damage (again, so Stamina vampires can use it).

    Bing-bam-boom we now have a feature-complete vampire sub-class that provides basically all essential functions and, most importantly, takes basically nothing away from anybody who currently enjoys the skills. All current skills retain a morph of essentially unchanged or improved utility while using the recycled morphs to fill in the overall class kit.

    The Ultimate is omitted because I don't use it and thus have no real insights into it.

    Too bad no one is home at ZOS on the Combat & Mechanics Team. Some good ideas in there!
  • DT-ARR
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    Its hard not to be disappointed with ZOS’s decision making and inability to effectively communicate with their player base.

    There is no excuse for rolling out updates that make sweeping changes to critical aspects (major/minor buffs) but knowingly break half the game (skills / item sets that utilize them) with no other corresponding changes.

    Its ridiculous to expect players to be okay with paying / playing an mmo with nothing but vague promises to look into a skill/set audit at an undisclosed period in the future to fix the things that their changes broke.

    In regards to vampire changes...they are in a league of their own in terms of a poorly implemented idea. Why only the passives scale with vampire stage is beyond me. Scale the skills as well.

    I posted earlier an example:

    Bfb at stage 1 deals X damage
    Bfb at stage 2 deals X1.25 damage
    Bfb at stage 3 deals X1.5 damage
    Bfb at stage 4 deals X1.5 damage with a small life steal dot.

    Again the above was an off the top idea - it could literally be anything. But something along these lines at least gives an incentive to advance in stage.

    Blood frenzy for instance. Turn into into something similar to assassins will. 5 light attacks and you can trigger a gap closer with x benefit as you advance in stage.

    Literally anything skill wise that advances in stage would be better.

    But as per usual...crickets.
  • YandereGirlfriend
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    Regarding lore vs. gameplay: I am of the opinion that ties should always broken in favor of gameplay. I am not going to get overly wrapped around the axle about what Lamia Bal said in the introduction quest and how that relates to individual skills and I think that's likely the opinion shared by most ESO players.

    I also think that it is unwise to outright remove a skill from the vampire tree (as some seem to want to do to Frenzy). It does not need two redundant morphs (hence my idea for the healer morph) but some players do enjoy using the skill even if certain others do not. I, for example, see no use at all for Vampiric Drain in either morph, but I understand that some players like it and that at least one morph should still remain in any vampire redesign.

    @Vevvev I wanted to leave it open-ended in terms of the extra de-buff to see what sort of ideas might pop up in the thread. I figured that crowd-sourced ideas would be more interesting than what I was pondering. My ideas were not particularly inspired (e.g. Minor Breach, Major Maim, retaining the strong snare, Minor Cowardice) and I was trying to find something potentially useful for both tanks (if vampire tanks even exist these days...) and PvP'ers.

    I liked a lot of the ideas that others had, especially of siphoning resources for sustain assistance. It would be really fun to have skills scale with vampire stages and then have Hypnotize have an extra effect like: "Drain 500/1000/1500/2000 Stamina and Magicka instantly from any stunned enemy that is facing you, the amount of resources drained increases with your vampire stage." Perhaps those values are too high, but the general idea is interesting.

    I've also thought that a nifty idea for a vampire passive (perhaps an addition to Undeath) would be, "When under 50% health, gain 0.5/1.0/1.5/2.0 Ultimate per second, the amount of Ultimate gained increases with your vampire stage." It would synergize with Arterial Burst and generally into the idea that vampires are more dangerous the more their health decreases.
  • Vevvev
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    I liked a lot of the ideas that others had, especially of siphoning resources for sustain assistance. It would be really fun to have skills scale with vampire stages and then have Hypnotize have an extra effect like: "Drain 500/1000/1500/2000 Stamina and Magicka instantly from any stunned enemy that is facing you, the amount of resources drained increases with your vampire stage." Perhaps those values are too high, but the general idea is interesting.

    I've also thought that a nifty idea for a vampire passive (perhaps an addition to Undeath) would be, "When under 50% health, gain 0.5/1.0/1.5/2.0 Ultimate per second, the amount of Ultimate gained increases with your vampire stage." It would synergize with Arterial Burst and generally into the idea that vampires are more dangerous the more their health decreases.

    Hmmm..... what if it caused a synergy to be activatable by vampires that allows you to bite the target in combat? Healing you, damaging them, and progressing your stage.
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
  • Vayln_Ninetails
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    Regarding lore vs. gameplay: I am of the opinion that ties should always broken in favor of gameplay. I am not going to get overly wrapped around the axle about what Lamia Bal said in the introduction quest and how that relates to individual skills and I think that's likely the opinion shared by most ESO players.

    I also think that it is unwise to outright remove a skill from the vampire tree (as some seem to want to do to Frenzy). It does not need two redundant morphs (hence my idea for the healer morph) but some players do enjoy using the skill even if certain others do not.

    I agree with everything else but this part. You make a lot of good points in your original pitch and this whole response which is why I'm a bit disappointed you came to this specific conclusion.

    Lore should ALWAYS be reflected in gameplay. If your gameplay breaks lore then that's usually pretty bad in lore heavy games like Elder Scrolls. I understand some elements can't be reflected in gameplay but this isn't one of those situations. We didn't need Blood Frenzy. It's a boring, uncreative, and unintuitive spell. That is what Elder Scrolls is known for. Having good gameplay that sticks to the lore. And what Lamae said isn't the whole issue; it's the fact blood frenzy is literally counter productive to what vampires are in Elder Scrolls. And that's the issue. No vampire in Elder Scrolls sacrifices their own HP for some minimal gain. They siphon it from others.

    It doesn't make sense in the slightest because a vampire does NOT want to get close to death due to not wanting to go be eternally damned with Molag Bal. Especially for such meager amounts of power. The only vamps that do that are indeed bloodfiends because they can't control their urges nor do they care if they die. This is why no other npc ever has ever used this ability.

    As for the opinion shared by most ESO players, I can tell you right now most of them probably don't find Blood Frenzy to be fun. While you're right that they focus more on gameplay; you open the can of worms that reveals Blood Frenzy is a boring, lackluster skill that the majority of people don't find flashy or interesting or all that useful. It just kills yourself and adds on some damage.

    And I don't think it is unwise at all to remove the blood frenzy since how many people dislike it and how much it does not fit into this video game. Cutting yourself off from groups is pretty bad. That and most people that use the skill would be content with it being moved to scion form. This is another case of "if you dig this skill, then you probably would like literally anything else because it's just that uninteresting." And if it's moved to the scion form then nothing is lost. It already doesn't do enough to warrant its own skill slot. It feels more like a bonus that should tacked onto another skill like scion for example.

    Not to mention the skill itself will ALWAYS either be overpowered or underpowered. There is no middle ground with the skill. It's left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths.
  • YandereGirlfriend
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    @Vayln_Ninetails I really don't want to get bogged down in a lore discussion. Most players just want something fun and useful to use in their builds, lore is a secondary consideration or, even more likely, is not considered at all.

    As for useless skills, that is entirely in the eye of the beholder. I have literally never seen someone use Vampiric Drain in the months since the patch, whereas I know for a fact that Frenzy is used in PvP and PvE. So in my subjective experience, Vampiric Drain is completely useless but I still do not believe that it should be removed from the game entirely because someone out there probably uses it and likes it.

    @Vevvev Not a fan, eh? I like the idea of being able to feed on enemy players (it would make for an awesome execute!) but it doesn't seem like the synergy would be useful for a solo player or groups without other vampires around. Since landing the "facing you" provision is so finicky, I feel like it should be useful directly for the player that pulls it off.

    The more I think about it the more I like boring old Major Maim. It's useful for vampire tanks and gives PvP vampires a weaker-but-still-useful version (after the Major/Minor buff adjustments) of the old Choking Talons.
  • Vevvev
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    I just don't know anymore as I feel like I have to dig up my old threads to remember what cool ideas I came up with lol. Only idea I had that everyone seemed to have a positive view of was giving stage 4 vampirism minor expedition so it actually was useful in combat instead of being an out of combat utility. I know XomRohk took my 2nd magicka bar idea from werewolf an incorporated it into their thread https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/528479/point-of-view-on-vampire-skills-mechanics-and-stages-of-vampirism but despite that my ideas seem to be quite silly lol.

    I basically want something akin to the vamprisim of Oblivion than Skyrim's Dawnguard DLC which is what the devs and a few other people here seem to be aiming for. I honestly hated losing bat swarm and having it changed out for that horrible "Blood Scion" monster thing.
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
  • Spectral_Force
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    Gee, haven't participated in vampire talks in a while.

    Anyway, just pitching in my small idea. I feel like the Vampire line should in some way synergize with Bleed, whether Vampire skills should make the target bleed, or you gain some kind of benefit from bleeding targets. For example, Eviscerate and/or one/both morphs causing a small Bleed DoT on targets (probably Blood for Blood, if it's made to be the "Stam" morph by making it scale with highest stat), and Drain & Blood Mist giving you extra healing when attacking bleeding targets, perhaps scaling up with your stage (+25%/+50%/+75%/+100% healing at stage 1/2/3/4 when attacking Bleeding targets).

    Not only is this quite flavourful in my opinion, but this will this make the skill line synergize with itself better (because by God it needs to, given the disjointed mess the skills are currently), as well as synergizing with outside sources of Bleed, allowing you more flexibility in how you build your toon. This also makes Vampires a bit more viable for Stamina characters (since Bleed is physical damage), and at least in my example it makes Drain more viable as a healing option - even more viable the higher your Vampire stage, giving you another incentive to stay at higher stages.
    Edited by Spectral_Force on October 24, 2020 5:02AM
    I've unearthed the Legendary Antiquity of Mêlée Island and all I got was this stupid T-shirt!
  • Zeromaz
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    Make all vamp abilities leach health. Bam, done
  • Sephyr
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    Vevvev wrote: »
    Sephyr wrote: »
    I've been kicked out of PuGs because of that too. Because I'm using the vampire toolkit, insecure healers are upset that they can't "heal" me, despite me pulling almost 60-65% of the group damage and dying less than the other DPS. PvP is at least becoming a better experience, even with the horrendous performance issues and testing.

    I have yet to be kicked because I simply refuse to let myself die, and I usually play the healer so its rare for me to DPS in a group. That being said in the open world I've run into a lot of insecure healers running after me trying to "save me" and its gotten actually incredibly infuriating.

    Being a vampire at stage 4 and trying to hit the biggest numbers you can with your spammable actually ends up giving you a hatred for healers... Its quite sad really and they get all angry when I tell them to stop healing me. I know one of my RP friends I was helping when I told them to stop healing me almost broke down in tears because they believed the only thing they were good for was healing since they didn't know how to DPS. :disappointed:

    Ironically something happened to me earlier today when I was grinding plunder skulls. So I'm at the Dolmen closest to Daggerfall. It's just me and I'm doing my thing on my Nightblade to make aggro tags quicker and getting the hang of weaving Frenzy (it really isn't that bad on Nightblades at all, which is ugh). So anyways, I'm keeping myself at 30% health with HoTs going, I'm sitting pretty and in no way in any danger to dying because I have pots.

    In barreling like a bat out of hell comes this healer spam healing me to full. Okay, I just toggle on Frenzy even longer. They don't tag mobs at this point and just spam heal me, even after things aren't spawning and the pinions aren't down. I had to tell them to stop because they're reducing my damage efficiency. I get pretty much insulted and told that I'm bad at the game for simply using this mechanic.

    So it's also kind of a big part on why I just don't like it. Healers effectively lower my DPS and that ring can't come soon enough.

    As for the lore bit, @YandereGirlfriend, I understand not wanting to get so far into it. Let's look at the fun and useful side for a moment with just a sprinkle then. So, a bit of a backstory here. Back in August 2015, the IC was released and I was an officer in a bite guild that just... Didn't like PvP at all. So they were very uninspired that it was PvPvE. However, for me? It was a source of a ton of inspiration. What if I could find a way to get them to look at it as a fun activity? So I took one person with me, just as a test. Both of us vampires. We were in Teamspeak and I told the guy to just wait for a sign, he'd know, and then start DPSing this farmer down. I'd keep them busy. They were surprised because that sign was when I immediately went in to feed on the enemy player. We bursted the player down with little effort since it was sudden. It wasn't your average gank and t-bag. It was a downright vicious, bloodthirsty attack. I didn't get a rage-tell. Instead I got "THAT WAS FREAKING TERRIFYING". It was then I realized I was onto something.

    So I started bringing in a posse of players. Players who detested PvP with such a passion that I was surprised they actually took the bait, because after a while--they started to enjoy it. We were down there, hunting and actually being vampires. In the guild, we even had 'rival' clans on opposite factions that turned into all out skirmishes down there. It was fun. That was until Greymoor. When we discovered that we could no longer feed on enemy players, we started trying to figure out how we'd still get that identity back, because feeding should be integral in the lore and yet... It's just a very half-second thought. NPCs don't give you any sort of incentive to feed. You can't feed on players. All that fun just died. So much so that the guild didn't last a month. Shortly after Greymoor was released, the guild disbanded on June 13th. Whoever didn't leave the game entirely essentially cured and just became bitter. I don't even see the ones I kept on my friends list log in maybe once or twice a week now.

    I get what you're saying. Lore should be a secondary thing. However your statement, is also unfortunately, a pendulum and it does and has swung both ways. Too much lore, it's constricting. Not enough and you lose your identity as a whole group. I'll always cherish those times, but there's just nothing in the kit that will even come close to what it ultimately means to be a vampire. That's why @ZOS_RichLambert cannot prove his statement correct. Now that doesn't mean remove what's there--I don't anticipate that. I don't anticipate them changing much. But if they could just make feeding a PvP thing too as well as being more engaging with the line? I'd be happy. 100%. Even with Blood Frenzy. But they won't do that.
    Edited by Sephyr on October 24, 2020 5:16AM
  • hexentb16_ESO
    hexentb16_ESO
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    They should just bring back old vampirism as an option. I liked old vampirism much more and this new one feels like someone made it just so they could use it to gank players in cyrodil when not at work.
  • Aznarb
    Aznarb
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I like vampire like it is, 2 DD use it also in my guild one stage 1 the second, like me, stage 4.
    No problem to do any content or sustain, but, yes, it's not a free advantage card like before now you've to actually think when you build around it.
    And that how it should be, it should not be "so good" that every build have to be forced in.

    It had advantage and inconvenient, that fair.
    I see many people speaking about the old and new B4B completly missing the other morph who is the cheapest magicka spamable in the game.
    If you'r good at managed it, frenzy is insanely good.
    The DPS morph of the ult, same, in a stage 4 mag sorc that a more powerful ult than detro for the price of a comet.. And it's not just offensif, it also heal you for all dmg you do + give you free 10k health + made you full life when you enter AND exist of the transfo.
    The fear is a very good CC that I use on my Tankplar that don't have any CC.
    The stamina drain morph of the channel heal is also a good option to heal when it's safe for a tank who don't have decent heal.

    So, yeah, work fine for us, people need to forget about old vamp and the "new broken B4B" who got nerfed for obvious reason and think a bit outside of the box if they want use it.

    Now, it's a choice, nothing that you're forced to use and imho, that the right way to balance it.


    Edit :
    Just to be clear since I know how everything backfire on this forum :
    That just my opinion, I don't claim it's the only valuable one and don't mind people who think otherwise.
    Edited by Aznarb on October 26, 2020 3:03AM
    [ PC EU ]

    [ Khuram-dar ]
    [ Khajiit ]
    [ Templar - Healer ]
    [Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]

  • Fuzzybrick
    Fuzzybrick
    ✭✭✭
    Like I said previously, I don't think they need a total rework. But some tweaking would be nice.

    Vampiric drain and both morphs are total garbage, but other than that, maybe some kind of buffer for blood frenzy.

    I'm running internet speeds of 900mpbs/900mpbs and that skill is still a guaranteed death when I get hit by a lag spike.
    I've seen some good ideas by other players here too, and I wouldn't be opposed to them, but I still have fun with my vamp..

    That being said. My Toon is in no way able to run truly hard content carelessly the way she is currently built, I can run "normal hard vet" contact with her, but none of the expansions. I'd have to change sets and skills around totally and she basically wouldn't be a vampire anymore.

    Edit: if I could change one thing without changing anything really.. I'd change the "skin" for the ultimate. I hate the way it looks. I've never seen a vampire so ugly since the one horrible sequel to the Underworld movies. I would not be opposed to buying a new skin with crowns if giving the option.
    Edited by Fuzzybrick on October 28, 2020 4:47PM
    "A TROLL, HUH? WELL, THERE'S ONLY ONE SOLUTION FOR THAT, DESTROY ALL THE BRIDGES IN THE WORLD!"-- Uncle Grandpa


    VR 16 Stamina Templar
    VR 16 Magicka Templar
    VR 16 Magicka NB
    VR 16 Stamina DK
    VR 16 Magicka DK
    VR 16 Stamina Sorc
    VR 16 Magicka Sorc

  • DrSlaughtr
    DrSlaughtr
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    Vampire could use some help, especially with how silly b4b and blood frenzy. But most of the people I know who got mad about vamp just were upset they lost the free resource regen. They never used vampire otherwise.
    I drink and I stream things.
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  • Austinseph1
    Austinseph1
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    They tried to revitalize it but all they succeeded in doing is kill it. Even on my necro I tried to utilize it but ended up curing it because I'm not going to gimp myself in group play for the times I play solo. Its great... For the Stormhaven RPers
  • ParaViking
    ParaViking
    ✭✭✭
    Fundamentally it is flawed. If you are going to "curse/punish" a player for vampirism with skill costs. Then you have to reward (kiss) them with something else like burst, or damage... At least that seems to be what they were thinking... At end game at a competitive level players where able to abuse it. Resulting in a situation where players where being forced back into it do to the unbalanced, broken, and flawed nature of the the skill line and passives... So they nurf'd the skills to a point where now all you are *** is playing with all the handicaps and no upside...

    "Kiss Curse" is a flawed foundation to build a skill line on. To fix it is easy... Just remove the extra regular skill cost completely, and then revert the health regen back to before Greymoore. Balance/tweak the skills later on down the road. Maybe even change a few completely. Some are just stupid...

    Unfortunately I don't think they are going to do anything for a while. Not because they don't know the vampirism has failed. I am sure they know there is a problem. I think the game performance issue is taking precedence right now... Then we have the MARKARTH release to take us in to 2021... Then we will be having the build up to the next chapter... All the while their business operations are probably disrupted by the COVID pandemic...

    We may not see change for a while... It they just did the few quick things with skill cost and health regen it would go a long way, but I am not holding my breath. We may just be asking for too much too quick.

    Hope they work on it soon.
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