Why wasn't vampire touched at all during this patch?

Vayln_Ninetails

I find it kind of crazy that the year we get a vampire chapter they aren't taking this time to address people's concerns and feedback. It makes me wonder when they ever will address the feedback they've gotten about this skill line being utterly garbage.

It's so weird to me to know that the only chance of vampire being touched again won't happen till at least Late Jan/Feb next year.

Nova_J

Lop the y might be hoping that if dont talk about it, we'll forget.

Or they just for some reason dont know what to do with it.

UntilValhalla13

Wolfhunter was about the same way. Back when werewolves were finally upgraded after years, to help sell that update, and then utterly gutted like a month later. You'd think they would make vampires decent, especially around Halloween, but it's probably not going to happen for a while.

Vayln_Ninetails

Nova_J wrote: »

Lop the y might be hoping that if dont talk about it, we'll forget.

Or they just for some reason dont know what to do with it.

Probably true tbh.

I just find it hilarious considering how many detailed posts there are out there with great suggestions and feedback.

Vayln_Ninetails

UntilValhalla13 wrote: »

Wolfhunter was about the same way. Back when werewolves were finally upgraded after years, to help sell that update, and then utterly gutted like a month later. You'd think they would make vampires decent, especially around Halloween, but it's probably not going to happen for a while.

Kind of crazy how halloween during a vampire chapter has no vampire themed rewards or anything like that.

Honestly feel like they're missing out pretty hard here.

And really, wolfhunter was the same way? That's crazy.

ParaViking

They can fix it. easy!.. It would not take much effort...

Mule stubborn... It is clear that their management that is stopping developers from fixing it.

"Kiss Curse" It was a bad idea, and sounds like a phrase someone in management would coin.

They poured a lot of recourses into something that has clearly failed. Fixing it would be like admitting they were wrong...

I would imagine ZOS is a difunctional mess of a company internally. Someone's ego is defiantly driving things

DT-ARR

This game survives purely on the popular legacy of the elder scrolls universe. [snip]

[Edited to remove Bashing]

ParaViking

Really ever since Morrowind (2017) there has been a slow chipping away of everything that made the game great... They have done some good things, but combat mechanics and performance... all the crazy balancing...

I feel like players seem to be leaving...

What other reason would they have to finally be looking into Cyrodil performance after ignoring it for so long...

I sure have no plans to start paying for a membership. Turned it off after Greymoor (Vampire broke me). I have no incentive to pay them for the my miserly. I try to login and play everyday, but it is depressing. I have no plans to pay for the Markarth DLC.

Believe me I want to pay them money. I just can't pay for a bad product.

Sucks really... Just waiting for something good to happen to the game

JayKwellen

DT-ARR wrote: »

This game survives purely on the popular legacy of the elder scrolls universe. [snip]

Honestly the way they snap back and fourth with changed constantly is, I feel, the best example of how they either don't really know what they're trying to do or what direction they want to go, don't understand their own game, or there's some sort of weird power struggle going on internally.

Just look at the way they swing the meta like a pendulum without any sense of direction, with I think Elsweyr being the best example. In one patch they buff dots, justifying it by saying they should be more powerful as they're over time. They then almost immediately change course and do a complete 180, lurching so far in the other direction that they leave dots weaker than they were in the first place.

So, what does that mean, exactly? You literally just justified why this needed to happen and then you turn around and make them worse than they were to begin with? Does that mean you were wrong? Did you simply not understand what the changes meant? Did you just up and change your mind? Not knowing isn't a valid option, as the community was extremely vocal about it before the changes even went live, but if this was originally a well thought out plan then there's really no excuse for invalidating everything you said and did only a couple months earlier.

Now I'm sure the people at zos really do work hard, and I'm sure they're trying their best, I'm honestly not contesting that. I'm just saying that given their inability to plot any sort of consistent design direction and stick to it (everything from the overarching meta to class balancing. I mean, seriously, can anyone tell me what the design direction for classes like magblades and magcros even is anymore?), demonstrated by their consistent wild shifts in the meta often with no obvious outward justification at all, and compounded by their continued negligence in failing to balance and address numerous issues plaguing various classes which has created a clearly stratified list of 'good' classes and 'bad' classes, it really does give the appearance that they're a bit lost and not sure what to do anymore.

For the record, I don't think all hope is lost and I know things can turn around if appropriate steps are taken. I'm not trying to bash the dev team either, merely pointing out the behaviors and results we've seen and observed over time, backed up by both historical and current day actions, or lack thereof, that they have taken.

stefj68

prolly cause its hard to nerf them more then they are... cured all my toons!

Weesacs

Because they have more important things to fix e.g.

Fixed an issue where a campfire in Bisnensel, located in Bangkorai, could not be used for Provisioning

Weesacs

Mist Form has been broken since Greymoor came out and its still not fixed.

The devs are obviously working hard from home during this covid lockdown.

Vevvev

They tried to do so many new mechanics with the vampire rework that they didn't realize what these mechanics would do to the game.

A health cost channel that gives you power? Ended up becoming so powerful due to the power of healing that ZOS added a 20% increased cost every second making it close to worthless.

A health cost spammable that increases in power by 1.1% every level and scales up to 100% damage based on missing health? Ended up becoming so powerful due to the power of healing that ZOS removed the 1.1% increase in damage every level and reduced the damage scaling from 100% based on missing health to 75%. Then to stop the evil healers they made it so you can't be healed by others for 5 seconds.

I feel like I'm sensing a pattern here...

Also the whole issue could have been easily avoided if they made Blood for Blood something like a stamina spammable with a bleed dot effect that scales based on your missing health, and then make Blood Frenzy more group friendly by maybe giving it the ability to apply major or minor lifesteal on targets you damage. Some even suggested replacing Blood Frenzy with a vampire gap closer and I thought it they did that they even give it a morph called Vampiric Grip that acts as a pull, which of course would give vampire tanks some cool tools to play with.

Vayln_Ninetails

Vevvev wrote: »

They tried to do so many new mechanics with the vampire rework that they didn't realize what these mechanics would do to the game.

A health cost channel that gives you power? Ended up becoming so powerful due to the power of healing that ZOS added a 20% increased cost every second making it close to worthless.

A health cost spammable that increases in power by 1.1% every level and scales up to 100% damage based on missing health? Ended up becoming so powerful due to the power of healing that ZOS removed the 1.1% increase in damage every level and reduced the damage scaling from 100% based on missing health to 75%. Then to stop the evil healers they made it so you can't be healed by others for 5 seconds.

I feel like I'm sensing a pattern here...

Also the whole issue could have been easily avoided if they made Blood for Blood something like a stamina spammable with a bleed dot effect that scales based on your missing health, and then make Blood Frenzy more group friendly by maybe giving it the ability to apply major or minor lifesteal on targets you damage. Some even suggested replacing Blood Frenzy with a vampire gap closer and I thought it they did that they even give it a morph called Vampiric Grip that acts as a pull, which of course would give vampire tanks some cool tools to play with.

Exactly! Instead of trying to work with the stuff they got for current vampire NPCs (vampiric grip, gap closer, AoE bat swarm that can be conjured) they went with 100% new things that nobody wanted or asked for. A health suicide button that gives power? Gross. Also arterial burst should be a ranged bloof magic bolt, blood fot blood should be a stam claw swipe with dot. I can agree.

Eiagra

My guess would be that certain things were planned for this development cycle, and Vampire-related adjustments weren't on the list.

Perhaps they are on a different dev cycle list slotted for some other time, or perhaps they are still collecting data on current use cases in order to formulate a plan.

If you want to help, then I imagine the best course of action is to keep playing with the current iteration so they can collect data on what works and what doesn't. (What a player says and what they actually do are often two different things, even if both are taken into consideration.)

ManM

I suspect the true goal was to remove the vampire skill line from end game balancing considerations, so that no one felt like vampirism was a requirement. Having accomplished that, they feel little need to invest money having developers work on it further. What's the return on their investment at that point?

Of course, we have been given what might be the only 'vampire' in the history of vampirism that has no need to drink blood. It's an interesting case study in dissonance between lore and gameplay experience. They went all in while missing a fundamental design flaw, and now they have no way to fix it without another expensive rework. Oops.

Luke_Flamesword

So it looks like vampires are dead and undead at the same time

Flaaklypa

Vampire is good for NBs. (not talking about the snipe users, just generally any normal, open world build NB) since it gives 300 weap dmg from stealth

Finedaible

"We are happy with how [insert change here] is performing."

Gilvoth

some of us are completely satisfied and very comfortable with the way vampire is and the new changes the made to it tyhis year.
i hope vampire passives and skills stay the way they are right now, very comfortable with vampire at this time.
please dont make any changes to it.

Vayln_Ninetails

Gilvoth wrote: »

some of us are completely satisfied and very comfortable with the way vampire is and the new changes the made to it tyhis year.
i hope vampire passives and skills stay the way they are right now, very comfortable with vampire at this time.
please dont make any changes to it.

Isn't that kind of selfish? Other people deserve to enjoy the vamp rework too. Especially if these changes will probably make you like it more since you already like vampire.

NinchiTV

I just want mist form to work like it used to, a reliable movement ability. Not this you have to spam it so it actually works version of it. And of course if they could diel back the cons of being vamp a bit so anything with flame damage just obliterates you (but i guess that in some way is "balance"...I guess.

ManM

At this point, you also have to consider the devs wanting to save face. Everything is going to be a success, and working as intended, and so on and so forth.

Hopefully, after the dust has settled and feelings won't get hurt, someone will wonder why ESO player vampires don't actually need to drink blood, and there will be a push for a lore friendly vampire tweak. There can be some fun snark in the patch notes, pointing out that after a long reprieve from their curse, the ravenous thirst has indeed returned to vampires.

Iskaldt

I love vampires and want to have vampirism on my characters but tbh theres only 1 skill that is good, and 2 passives that is functional for 1 class and thats it.

Vampirism right now is pretty *** and i hope they fix/change it soon.

Vayln_Ninetails

Iskaldt wrote: »

I love vampires and want to have vampirism on my characters but tbh theres only 1 skill that is good, and 2 passives that is functional for 1 class and thats it.

Vampirism right now is pretty *** and i hope they fix/change it soon.

Same! It's a shame vampirism is so trash. I'd love to have my main be a vampire, but unfortunately it literally just isn't viable. Even more so since Im a necromancer, I already have Bone Goliath. So Scion isn't that unique for me.

Daemonai

I like vampire the way it is. Goes to show you can't please everyone.

It seems many people want to play vampire with minimal investment and get all the perks of the class and non of the drawbacks like they could with the old vampire. However, the redesigned vampire isn't made to be a straight augment on top of your base class like the old vampire. And the old vampire is not coming back.

For some that will mean curing your vampirism because you don't desire to commit to playing a vampire character....and that's fine. Not everyone has to be a vampire, and thanks to the redesign vampirism is no longer a must-have for every magicka build.

But for those who are willing to commit to playing a vampire, the class is a diamond in the rough. It can use some refinement and tweaking, but I think ZOS is on the right path.

StamPlar_1976

Awwww... Somebody doesn't like the truth lol

Vayln_Ninetails

Daemonai wrote: »

I like vampire the way it is. Goes to show you can't please everyone.

It seems many people want to play vampire with minimal investment and get all the perks of the class and non of the drawbacks like they could with the old vampire. However, the redesigned vampire isn't made to be a straight augment on top of your base class like the old vampire. And the old vampire is not coming back.

For some that will mean curing your vampirism because you don't desire to commit to playing a vampire character....and that's fine. Not everyone has to be a vampire, and thanks to the redesign vampirism is no longer a must-have for every magicka build.

But for those who are willing to commit to playing a vampire, the class is a diamond in the rough. It can use some refinement and tweaking, but I think ZOS is on the right path.

You are the minority, unfortunately. This isn't a 'you can't please everyone' scenario, the vampire lovers of the forums aren't happy.

First of all, this thread is NOT about old vampire. You see any mention of old vampire here?

Secondly, I have no idea how you could get that many people want to play vampire with minimal investment. The literal complaint of this thread is that the people who want to FULLY play as a vampire are not able to due to how bad it is.

Thirdly, those that are willing to "commit" to playing a vampire get absolutely nothing from this class. Unless, of course, you are a nightblade Ganker in PvP or play overland content in PvE.

You don't seem to realize that the people doing the complaining ARE the people who want to commit to a full vampire build and play style. If you think ZOS is on the right path that's fine, but understand you are in the minority. (Don't get me wrong, there are a few here and there that are complaining because no free passives. But those are even more of a minority than you, the people who like the vamp rework. And they certainly aren't the main driving force behind the people that want the vampire rework to be made better.)

And PLEASE stop painting people complaining about the rework as people who don't want to play as a full vampire/want old vamp back. If you were to read into it at all, you'd understand the ones doing the complaining (saying it again just to make sure the point gets across) are the ones who WANT to play as a full vampire, but CANT because the class is too weak and the play style is quite frankly not vampiric at all. Especially compared to NPCs, which is a big complaint.

Getting real tired of people that like the vampire rework coming onto these complaint discussion threads saying stuff that isn't true about the ones doing the complaining. I'd argue the ones making a big fuss about the rework are actually the REAL ES vampire fans, not the ones willing to shovel in the garbage that is this current rework yet at the same time criticize us for giving valid complaints.

And once again I'll use the tried and true age-old argument that I typically say to the people who like the vamp rework but can't stand the majority of people wanting it to be made better: If you like it now, then you'll probably like it with more vampiric themes/changes added onto it. So why try to step on our toes?

Nova_J

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

Daemonai wrote: »

I like vampire the way it is. Goes to show you can't please everyone.

It seems many people want to play vampire with minimal investment and get all the perks of the class and non of the drawbacks like they could with the old vampire. However, the redesigned vampire isn't made to be a straight augment on top of your base class like the old vampire. And the old vampire is not coming back.

For some that will mean curing your vampirism because you don't desire to commit to playing a vampire character....and that's fine. Not everyone has to be a vampire, and thanks to the redesign vampirism is no longer a must-have for every magicka build.

But for those who are willing to commit to playing a vampire, the class is a diamond in the rough. It can use some refinement and tweaking, but I think ZOS is on the right path.

You are the minority, unfortunately. This isn't a 'you can't please everyone' scenario, the vampire lovers of the forums aren't happy.

First of all, this thread is NOT about old vampire. You see any mention of old vampire here?

Secondly, I have no idea how you could get that many people want to play vampire with minimal investment. The literal complaint of this thread is that the people who want to FULLY play as a vampire are not able to due to how bad it is.

Thirdly, those that are willing to "commit" to playing a vampire get absolutely nothing from this class. Unless, of course, you are a nightblade Ganker in PvP or play overland content in PvE.

You don't seem to realize that the people doing the complaining ARE the people who want to commit to a full vampire build and play style. If you think ZOS is on the right path that's fine, but understand you are in the minority. (Don't get me wrong, there are a few here and there that are complaining because no free passives. But those are even more of a minority than you, the people who like the vamp rework. And they certainly aren't the main driving force behind the people that want the vampire rework to be made better.)

And PLEASE stop painting people complaining about the rework as people who don't want to play as a full vampire/want old vamp back. If you were to read into it at all, you'd understand the ones doing the complaining (saying it again just to make sure the point gets across) are the ones who WANT to play as a full vampire, but CANT because the class is too weak and the play style is quite frankly not vampiric at all. Especially compared to NPCs, which is a big complaint.

Getting real tired of people that like the vampire rework coming onto these complaint discussion threads saying stuff that isn't true about the ones doing the complaining. I'd argue the ones making a big fuss about the rework are actually the REAL ES vampire fans, not the ones willing to shovel in the garbage that is this current rework yet at the same time criticize us for giving valid complaints.

And once again I'll use the tried and true age-old argument that I typically say to the people who like the vamp rework but can't stand the majority of people wanting it to be made better: If you like it now, then you'll probably like it with more vampiric themes/changes added onto it. So why try to step on our toes?

@Daemonai

Crazy how many times this has to be explained to individuals like you. It's getting old at this point.

Gilvoth

Daemonai wrote: »

I like vampire the way it is. Goes to show you can't please everyone.

It seems many people want to play vampire with minimal investment and get all the perks of the class and non of the drawbacks like they could with the old vampire. However, the redesigned vampire isn't made to be a straight augment on top of your base class like the old vampire. And the old vampire is not coming back.

For some that will mean curing your vampirism because you don't desire to commit to playing a vampire character....and that's fine. Not everyone has to be a vampire, and thanks to the redesign vampirism is no longer a must-have for every magicka build.

But for those who are willing to commit to playing a vampire, the class is a diamond in the rough. It can use some refinement and tweaking, but I think ZOS is on the right path.

you are correct, and many of us agree with you that vampire this year has been fixed and is good for many of us, you are not in the minority, but there are people here that thier main goal is to insult and belittle and bully people for all subjects where we give our honest feedback not just on vampirism, but on all subjects. we have a right to express our opinions even if they are not the same as other peoples that are commenting. all we can do is hope that the moderators and developers and the rest of the community to see what they are doing to us here on the forums.

Vayln_Ninetails

Gilvoth wrote: »

Daemonai wrote: »

I like vampire the way it is. Goes to show you can't please everyone.

It seems many people want to play vampire with minimal investment and get all the perks of the class and non of the drawbacks like they could with the old vampire. However, the redesigned vampire isn't made to be a straight augment on top of your base class like the old vampire. And the old vampire is not coming back.

For some that will mean curing your vampirism because you don't desire to commit to playing a vampire character....and that's fine. Not everyone has to be a vampire, and thanks to the redesign vampirism is no longer a must-have for every magicka build.

But for those who are willing to commit to playing a vampire, the class is a diamond in the rough. It can use some refinement and tweaking, but I think ZOS is on the right path.

you are correct, and many of us agree with you that vampire this year has been fixed and is good for many of us, you are not in the minority, but there are people here that thier main goal is to insult and belittle and bully people for all subjects where we give our honest feedback not just on vampirism, but on all subjects. we have a right to express our opinions even if they are not the same as other peoples that are commenting. all we can do is hope that the moderators and developers and the rest of the community to see what they are doing to us here on the forums.

I'm sorry, but you are the minority. That's just how it works. I genuinely know nobody in all 5 of the guilds I am in that likes the vampire rework. All I see are complaints about it in zone chat. In fact, the only people I've ever seen say they like it is the less than 10 people on the forums in total I've seen say it. To say that you guys are not the minority is objectively false, as @Nova_J would agree. He's been around and active on the forums ever since people started making the complaint threads about the rework I think. Nonetheless, being in the minority on a subject is not a bad thing. I'm just stating it so you know that while you're happy with things, the majority aren't.

I hope that the moderators and developers see that you all are trying to push a narrative that vampire is fine and nothing should be done about it even though so many people, the majority, dislike it. There hasn't been a single thread made complimenting vampire. Nobody is here saying 'good job ZOS'


I'm also not saying that you can'tsay that you like vampire. I never once said that. Nobody has ever said that. Here you guys go again trying to spin some false fictional narrative. You people are the ones saying that we apparently can't be mad and upset about it. You are the people that are trying to force us to like something just because you guys think it is fine. You're trying to devalue the majority feedback ZOS is getting by saying we're complaining for false reasons. We are allowed to give honest feedback as much as you are and it just so happens that the majority do not like the vampire rework. I'm sorry, but that is the truth.