paulsimonps wrote: »My Current Set up with 5-1-1 armor, Yolna Alkosh with nothing other than Defensive stance being able to be considered adding to mitigation out of the current norm.
Live
Total 0.5881*0.8*0.9*0.5*0.9*0.85*0.92*0.95*0.88*0.79=0.098 aka 90.2% Total mitigation
PTS
Total 0.5881*0.8*0.9*0.5*0.9*0.95*0.95*0.95*0.88*0.79=0.1135 aka 88.65% total mitigation.
So we got a difference in 1.55% total damage mitigation from those numbers as a basically meta tank
Yes, 1.55% more absolute damage, which when starting at 9.8% damage taken, as @MudcrabAttack mentioned, is a ~15% increase in damage taken from live to PTS. If you take X damage on live, you will take about X*1.15 on U28 based on all the above.
paulsimonps wrote: »My Current Set up with 5-1-1 armor, Yolna Alkosh with nothing other than Defensive stance being able to be considered adding to mitigation out of the current norm.
Live
Total 0.5881*0.8*0.9*0.5*0.9*0.85*0.92*0.95*0.88*0.79=0.098 aka 90.2% Total mitigation
PTS
Total 0.5881*0.8*0.9*0.5*0.9*0.95*0.95*0.95*0.88*0.79=0.1135 aka 88.65% total mitigation.
So we got a difference in 1.55% total damage mitigation from those numbers as a basically meta tank
Yes, 1.55% more absolute damage, which when starting at 9.8% damage taken, as @MudcrabAttack mentioned, is a ~15% increase in damage taken from live to PTS. If you take X damage on live, you will take about X*1.15 on U28 based on all the above.
Percentages are tricky tool. By Your logic if there would be someone with 99% dmg mitigation and it would be nerfed to 98% it would be 1% more total dmg which when starting at 1% dmg taken is a 100% increase in damage taken. If he was taking X dmg then he would start to take X*2 dmg. Holy moly 2 times more dmg ! Does that mean said player would start dropping dead left and right ? Of course not because his dmg mitigation is very high anyway. When playing with percentages and using small numbers it's very easy to get high percentage values out of them. For a tank in ESO 15% more dmg taken is nothing because his base dmg taken is very low.
Tanking is always about survival first. Every tank works out what sets they need to not die and then as they get more experienced their setup is less and less about survival and more about group support.
If someone finds these changes too much then they can easily swap to a more "selfish" set until they get used to the increase in incoming damage.
What make tank selfish? He do his job. Are you not selfish DD ? Do you heal tank ?
Tank is "selfish" because he get not enough heal and support, this sets give him something, that party do not
It is not tank selfish - tank is OK, it is just a bad group.
And now it is bad group + 15% damage more.
paulsimonps wrote: »paulsimonps wrote: »My Current Set up with 5-1-1 armor, Yolna Alkosh with nothing other than Defensive stance being able to be considered adding to mitigation out of the current norm.
Live
Total 0.5881*0.8*0.9*0.5*0.9*0.85*0.92*0.95*0.88*0.79=0.098 aka 90.2% Total mitigation
PTS
Total 0.5881*0.8*0.9*0.5*0.9*0.95*0.95*0.95*0.88*0.79=0.1135 aka 88.65% total mitigation.
So we got a difference in 1.55% total damage mitigation from those numbers as a basically meta tank
Yes, 1.55% more absolute damage, which when starting at 9.8% damage taken, as @MudcrabAttack mentioned, is a ~15% increase in damage taken from live to PTS. If you take X damage on live, you will take about X*1.15 on U28 based on all the above.
Percentages are tricky tool. By Your logic if there would be someone with 99% dmg mitigation and it would be nerfed to 98% it would be 1% more total dmg which when starting at 1% dmg taken is a 100% increase in damage taken. If he was taking X dmg then he would start to take X*2 dmg. Holy moly 2 times more dmg ! Does that mean said player would start dropping dead left and right ? Of course not because his dmg mitigation is very high anyway. When playing with percentages and using small numbers it's very easy to get high percentage values out of them. For a tank in ESO 15% more dmg taken is nothing because his base dmg taken is very low.
THIS RIGHT HERE ^
paulsimonps wrote: »paulsimonps wrote: »My Current Set up with 5-1-1 armor, Yolna Alkosh with nothing other than Defensive stance being able to be considered adding to mitigation out of the current norm.
Live
Total 0.5881*0.8*0.9*0.5*0.9*0.85*0.92*0.95*0.88*0.79=0.098 aka 90.2% Total mitigation
PTS
Total 0.5881*0.8*0.9*0.5*0.9*0.95*0.95*0.95*0.88*0.79=0.1135 aka 88.65% total mitigation.
So we got a difference in 1.55% total damage mitigation from those numbers as a basically meta tank
Yes, 1.55% more absolute damage, which when starting at 9.8% damage taken, as @MudcrabAttack mentioned, is a ~15% increase in damage taken from live to PTS. If you take X damage on live, you will take about X*1.15 on U28 based on all the above.
Percentages are tricky tool. By Your logic if there would be someone with 99% dmg mitigation and it would be nerfed to 98% it would be 1% more total dmg which when starting at 1% dmg taken is a 100% increase in damage taken. If he was taking X dmg then he would start to take X*2 dmg. Holy moly 2 times more dmg ! Does that mean said player would start dropping dead left and right ? Of course not because his dmg mitigation is very high anyway. When playing with percentages and using small numbers it's very easy to get high percentage values out of them. For a tank in ESO 15% more dmg taken is nothing because his base dmg taken is very low.
THIS RIGHT HERE ^
Yes they would drop dead :-) If they were taking 40K damage from a heavy with 99% mitigation and it jumped up to 80K damage with 98% mitigation then I suspect they would die. I would. But I do get your point and agree that much of the game is low damage for tanks. If you are only taking 5K from a heavy then a 15% increase is nothing. And most tank deaths are mechanics/resorurce management issues anyhow. But some vet HM fights do put out some noticible damage on tanks even post mitigation. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the broader tanking community.
When teaching new tanks I used to stress what a big deal keeping minor maim up was, in terms of reducing damage received and group damage received during things like HRC sheite storm, KA lightining game, etc that maim impacts. 15% was a big deal. Now it will be a bit less critical.
paulsimonps wrote: »paulsimonps wrote: »My Current Set up with 5-1-1 armor, Yolna Alkosh with nothing other than Defensive stance being able to be considered adding to mitigation out of the current norm.
Live
Total 0.5881*0.8*0.9*0.5*0.9*0.85*0.92*0.95*0.88*0.79=0.098 aka 90.2% Total mitigation
PTS
Total 0.5881*0.8*0.9*0.5*0.9*0.95*0.95*0.95*0.88*0.79=0.1135 aka 88.65% total mitigation.
So we got a difference in 1.55% total damage mitigation from those numbers as a basically meta tank
Yes, 1.55% more absolute damage, which when starting at 9.8% damage taken, as @MudcrabAttack mentioned, is a ~15% increase in damage taken from live to PTS. If you take X damage on live, you will take about X*1.15 on U28 based on all the above.
Percentages are tricky tool. By Your logic if there would be someone with 99% dmg mitigation and it would be nerfed to 98% it would be 1% more total dmg which when starting at 1% dmg taken is a 100% increase in damage taken. If he was taking X dmg then he would start to take X*2 dmg. Holy moly 2 times more dmg ! Does that mean said player would start dropping dead left and right ? Of course not because his dmg mitigation is very high anyway. When playing with percentages and using small numbers it's very easy to get high percentage values out of them. For a tank in ESO 15% more dmg taken is nothing because his base dmg taken is very low.
THIS RIGHT HERE ^
Yes they would drop dead :-) If they were taking 40K damage from a heavy with 99% mitigation and it jumped up to 80K damage with 98% mitigation then I suspect they would die. I would. But I do get your point and agree that much of the game is low damage for tanks. If you are only taking 5K from a heavy then a 15% increase is nothing. And most tank deaths are mechanics/resorurce management issues anyhow. But some vet HM fights do put out some noticible damage on tanks even post mitigation. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the broader tanking community.
When teaching new tanks I used to stress what a big deal keeping minor maim up was, in terms of reducing damage received and group damage received during things like HRC sheite storm, KA lightining game, etc that maim impacts. 15% was a big deal. Now it will be a bit less critical.
Tanking is too easy and boring, that's why theres not enough of them. And tanks are not needed for most content, including vets.
thadjarvis wrote: »I think the focus on Minor Maim is fine, but you have to take into account all the other changes. I put some above, but there's more. Eg what monster will you wear? In mag groups (most groups) you won't need Alkosh often so standard LT or Malacath choices aren't needed for that. You can use Vykosa, the new Void set, etc. You have to factor that in. I have no idea why you would need it, but a group could stack Vykosa with LT/Void.
The major and minor Ward buffs are significant relative to maim nerf and they are being ignored in this thread.
If there would be a hit that deals 40k dmg after being reduced by 99% that means at base it deals 4M dmg. I think if something is designed to deal 4M dmg it is supposed to one shot everyone. I don't even think there is a hit like that in ESO that would still undergo regular dmg mitigation formula. As for vet content where there is a lot of dmg taken , well game offers lot of sets and skills that helps to survive that. Fact that tanks very often play as support+tank even in game end shows that there is still lot of space to improve in terms of survivability when it's needed because basic survivability of tanks is pretty decent.
I finally buckled down and built a PTS char that matches my live one. Nord DK. On vAS Olms Swipe.
13251 on live versus 15680 on PTS for lowest numbers without using Major Maim synergy from Lady thorn.Live data
PTS
shows pierce but I changed out to ransack for the tests below, food was longfin instead of sugar skulls as I couldn't find skulls in the lunchbox
Shows 15985 but there was a 15680 swipe as well (probably with Phase from dodge roll)
Olupajmibanan wrote: »What make tank selfish? He do his job. Are you not selfish DD ? Do you heal tank ?
Tank is "selfish" because he get not enough heal and support, this sets give him something, that party do not
It is not tank selfish - tank is OK, it is just a bad group.
And now it is bad group + 15% damage more.
Call it "Selfish Tank", "Tank doing his Job", "Whatever Tank of Whatever", we always refer to the same thing - tank wearing things that do not support the rest of his group. Do not slip this discussion into some word game. We are discussing serious matters.
Olupajmibanan wrote: »What make tank selfish? He do his job. Are you not selfish DD ? Do you heal tank ?
Tank is "selfish" because he get not enough heal and support, this sets give him something, that party do not
It is not tank selfish - tank is OK, it is just a bad group.
And now it is bad group + 15% damage more.
Call it "Selfish Tank", "Tank doing his Job", "Whatever Tank of Whatever", we always refer to the same thing - tank wearing things that do not support the rest of his group. Do not slip this discussion into some word game. We are discussing serious matters.
Tank must not buff or support the group. It is not his primary option.
He get and metegate damage in first place.
Tank metegate damage by using block, dodge and debuffs. And has good defence too. His primary target is ground control of mobs. That is all. Heal him is groups responciability. If party do not give enough hps to tank - he is dead. To avoid situations like this tank put healing sets on himself, they give him 4+- k hps. And he do it because healers and other party members do not give him enough resources and healing. And if damage goes up - this 15 % must be overhealed by who ?
Tank ? Then even more selfish sets.
Heal ?I only see 8 heals i trust with normal hps for 3 years i play.
DDs ? A lot of them will not even go away from red ground aoe - even do not expect any help from most if them.
Some attacks can hit you 30-40 k+, how will you metigate it if + 15% damage comes ? Not to get one shot ? More HP and healing if noother metigation can be get. More HP - less resources - less option for party support.
That is ALL.
paulsimonps wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »What make tank selfish? He do his job. Are you not selfish DD ? Do you heal tank ?
Tank is "selfish" because he get not enough heal and support, this sets give him something, that party do not
It is not tank selfish - tank is OK, it is just a bad group.
And now it is bad group + 15% damage more.
Call it "Selfish Tank", "Tank doing his Job", "Whatever Tank of Whatever", we always refer to the same thing - tank wearing things that do not support the rest of his group. Do not slip this discussion into some word game. We are discussing serious matters.
Tank must not buff or support the group. It is not his primary option.
He get and metegate damage in first place.
Tank metegate damage by using block, dodge and debuffs. And has good defence too. His primary target is ground control of mobs. That is all. Heal him is groups responciability. If party do not give enough hps to tank - he is dead. To avoid situations like this tank put healing sets on himself, they give him 4+- k hps. And he do it because healers and other party members do not give him enough resources and healing. And if damage goes up - this 15 % must be overhealed by who ?
Tank ? Then even more selfish sets.
Heal ?I only see 8 heals i trust with normal hps for 3 years i play.
DDs ? A lot of them will not even go away from red ground aoe - even do not expect any help from most if them.
Some attacks can hit you 30-40 k+, how will you metigate it if + 15% damage comes ? Not to get one shot ? More HP and healing if noother metigation can be get. More HP - less resources - less option for party support.
That is ALL.
@AyaDark
MITIGATE*