Olupajmibanan wrote: »Nothing special, this happens everytime.
1. Badly nerf old things,
2. Provide viable replacement but acquirable only in new DLC,
3. Profit.
Void Bash will make up for most of the mitigation lost. And in encounters where you need huge mitigation (e.g. hard mode Lord Falgravn, hard mode Nahviintas ...) off tanks usualy don't have special role so they can reliably keep Major Maim for you.
paulsimonps wrote: »My Current Set up with 5-1-1 armor, Yolna Alkosh with nothing other than Defensive stance being able to be considered adding to mitigation out of the current norm.
Live
My resistance= 27187 aka 41.19%
Sword and Board = 20%
DK's Iron Skin = 10%
Blocking = 50%
Defensive Stance = 10%
Minor Maim = 15%
Minor Protection = 8%
Minor Aegis = 5%
Elemental Defender/Hardy = 12%
Ironclad/Thick Skin = 21%
Total 0.5881*0.8*0.9*0.5*0.9*0.85*0.92*0.95*0.88*0.79=0.098 aka 90.2% Total mitigation
PTS
My resistance = 27187 aka 41.19%
Sword and Board = 20%
DK's Iron Skin = 10%
Blocking = 50%
Defensive Stance = 10%
Minor Maim = 5%
Minor Protection = 5%
Minor Aegis = 5%
Elemental Defender/Hardy = 12%
Ironclad/Thick Skin = 21%
Total 0.5881*0.8*0.9*0.5*0.9*0.95*0.95*0.95*0.88*0.79=0.1135 aka 88.65% total mitigation.
So we got a difference in 1.55% total damage mitigation from those numbers as a basically meta tank(obviously it varies). But I see no problems for tanks with these changes at all. Now in PvP or the DPS and healers and in PvE might feel a pretty more significant difference from this but not the tanks. I mean in PvP some use Minor Maim as one of their main sources of mitigation and they don't get as many as us tanks so will probably hurt them far more than us.
But again, tanks, don't worry.
Oh and I did not account for the changes in resistance as Resolve is getting a slight buff as well. but it would not change this much at all, just close the gap slightly more.
Olupajmibanan wrote: »paulsimonps wrote: »My Current Set up with 5-1-1 armor, Yolna Alkosh with nothing other than Defensive stance being able to be considered adding to mitigation out of the current norm.
Live
My resistance= 27187 aka 41.19%
Sword and Board = 20%
DK's Iron Skin = 10%
Blocking = 50%
Defensive Stance = 10%
Minor Maim = 15%
Minor Protection = 8%
Minor Aegis = 5%
Elemental Defender/Hardy = 12%
Ironclad/Thick Skin = 21%
Total 0.5881*0.8*0.9*0.5*0.9*0.85*0.92*0.95*0.88*0.79=0.098 aka 90.2% Total mitigation
PTS
My resistance = 27187 aka 41.19%
Sword and Board = 20%
DK's Iron Skin = 10%
Blocking = 50%
Defensive Stance = 10%
Minor Maim = 5%
Minor Protection = 5%
Minor Aegis = 5%
Elemental Defender/Hardy = 12%
Ironclad/Thick Skin = 21%
Total 0.5881*0.8*0.9*0.5*0.9*0.95*0.95*0.95*0.88*0.79=0.1135 aka 88.65% total mitigation.
So we got a difference in 1.55% total damage mitigation from those numbers as a basically meta tank(obviously it varies). But I see no problems for tanks with these changes at all. Now in PvP or the DPS and healers and in PvE might feel a pretty more significant difference from this but not the tanks. I mean in PvP some use Minor Maim as one of their main sources of mitigation and they don't get as many as us tanks so will probably hurt them far more than us.
But again, tanks, don't worry.
Oh and I did not account for the changes in resistance as Resolve is getting a slight buff as well. but it would not change this much at all, just close the gap slightly more.
Tanks won't be affected much but it's the group who will suffer the most from Minor Maim changes.
So "unoptimized" groups will get punished more than "optimized" groups, the opposite of the Dev Comments on the change.
But they clearly stated that they wanted to increase damage taken and reduce damage done. So yes. Intended.
paulsimonps wrote: »My Current Set up with 5-1-1 armor, Yolna Alkosh with nothing other than Defensive stance being able to be considered adding to mitigation out of the current norm.
Live
Total 0.5881*0.8*0.9*0.5*0.9*0.85*0.92*0.95*0.88*0.79=0.098 aka 90.2% Total mitigation
PTS
Total 0.5881*0.8*0.9*0.5*0.9*0.95*0.95*0.95*0.88*0.79=0.1135 aka 88.65% total mitigation.
So we got a difference in 1.55% total damage mitigation from those numbers as a basically meta tank
So "unoptimized" groups will get punished more than "optimized" groups, the opposite of the Dev Comments on the change.
But they clearly stated that they wanted to increase damage taken and reduce damage done. So yes. Intended.
It's not uncommon for them to implement changes that have the opposite result than what they intended.
YandereGirlfriend wrote: »It appears to me as though ZOS is giving the people what they have asked for.
Healers have long felt (and have been in fact) superfluous for experienced dungeon runners and with these changes returning more damage to the group via the nerfed m/M Maims, more damage is being dealt to players which will necessitate stronger healing which will (potentially) necessitate an actual healer.
In other words, this is sort of achieving "Make PvE bosses do more damage (so that healers are needed)" by another means - nerfing mitigation rather than actually increasing raw boss damage.
Personally, I like the ideal of tanks having to build for survivability and healers focusing on healing, doing more of their on paper role rather than being relegated to "buff bots." Elite groups will, as usual, likely side-step these changes, but hopefully ZOS will get around to changing things for them with more targeted nerfs.
paulsimonps wrote: »My Current Set up with 5-1-1 armor, Yolna Alkosh with nothing other than Defensive stance being able to be considered adding to mitigation out of the current norm.
Live
Total 0.5881*0.8*0.9*0.5*0.9*0.85*0.92*0.95*0.88*0.79=0.098 aka 90.2% Total mitigation
PTS
Total 0.5881*0.8*0.9*0.5*0.9*0.95*0.95*0.95*0.88*0.79=0.1135 aka 88.65% total mitigation.
So we got a difference in 1.55% total damage mitigation from those numbers as a basically meta tank
Yes, 1.55% more absolute damage, which when starting at 9.8% damage taken, as @MudcrabAttack mentioned, is a ~15% increase in damage taken from live to PTS. If you take X damage on live, you will take about X*1.15 on U28 based on all the above.
YandereGirlfriend wrote: »It appears to me as though ZOS is giving the people what they have asked for.
Healers have long felt (and have been in fact) superfluous for experienced dungeon runners and with these changes returning more damage to the group via the nerfed m/M Maims, more damage is being dealt to players which will necessitate stronger healing which will (potentially) necessitate an actual healer.
In other words, this is sort of achieving "Make PvE bosses do more damage (so that healers are needed)" by another means - nerfing mitigation rather than actually increasing raw boss damage.
Personally, I like the ideal of tanks having to build for survivability and healers focusing on healing, doing more of their on paper role rather than being relegated to "buff bots." Elite groups will, as usual, likely side-step these changes, but hopefully ZOS will get around to changing things for them with more targeted nerfs.
Yes. One of the reasons healers are not needed is that mechanics are usually black or white: either irrelevant or one-shots.
Increasing overall damage by a small amount is, IMO, the right way to make healers needed again.
Make that DOT just 10% more than a DPS can safely out-heal, and you need an extra heal boost.
Very nice observation!
Olupajmibanan wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »It appears to me as though ZOS is giving the people what they have asked for.
Healers have long felt (and have been in fact) superfluous for experienced dungeon runners and with these changes returning more damage to the group via the nerfed m/M Maims, more damage is being dealt to players which will necessitate stronger healing which will (potentially) necessitate an actual healer.
In other words, this is sort of achieving "Make PvE bosses do more damage (so that healers are needed)" by another means - nerfing mitigation rather than actually increasing raw boss damage.
Personally, I like the ideal of tanks having to build for survivability and healers focusing on healing, doing more of their on paper role rather than being relegated to "buff bots." Elite groups will, as usual, likely side-step these changes, but hopefully ZOS will get around to changing things for them with more targeted nerfs.
Yes. One of the reasons healers are not needed is that mechanics are usually black or white: either irrelevant or one-shots.
Increasing overall damage by a small amount is, IMO, the right way to make healers needed again.
Make that DOT just 10% more than a DPS can safely out-heal, and you need an extra heal boost.
Very nice observation!
Why they reworked Banis Torment, significantly increased uptime on Vrol Command or introduced Void Bash then?
Just by using Void Bash (a 2-piece set easily combined with Powerful Assault without losing Monster set) you can get to +- same group mitigation level as before patch. This still seems to me just another Iceheart/M.Ciannait change rather than effort to make healers relevant.
paulsimonps wrote: »My Current Set up with 5-1-1 armor, Yolna Alkosh with nothing other than Defensive stance being able to be considered adding to mitigation out of the current norm.
Live
My resistance= 27187 aka 41.19%
Sword and Board = 20%
DK's Iron Skin = 10%
Blocking = 50%
Defensive Stance = 10%
Minor Maim = 15%
Minor Protection = 8%
Minor Aegis = 5%
Elemental Defender/Hardy = 12%
Ironclad/Thick Skin = 21%
Total 0.5881*0.8*0.9*0.5*0.9*0.85*0.92*0.95*0.88*0.79=0.098 aka 90.2% Total mitigation
PTS
My resistance = 27187 aka 41.19%
Sword and Board = 20%
DK's Iron Skin = 10%
Blocking = 50%
Defensive Stance = 10%
Minor Maim = 5%
Minor Protection = 5%
Minor Aegis = 5%
Elemental Defender/Hardy = 12%
Ironclad/Thick Skin = 21%
Total 0.5881*0.8*0.9*0.5*0.9*0.95*0.95*0.95*0.88*0.79=0.1135 aka 88.65% total mitigation.
Oh and I did not account for the changes in resistance as Resolve is getting a slight buff as well. but it would not change this much at all, just close the gap slightly more.
paulsimonps wrote: »My Current Set up with 5-1-1 armor, Yolna Alkosh with nothing other than Defensive stance being able to be considered adding to mitigation out of the current norm.
Live
My resistance= 27187 aka 41.19%
Sword and Board = 20%
DK's Iron Skin = 10%
Blocking = 50%
Defensive Stance = 10%
Minor Maim = 15%
Minor Protection = 8%
Minor Aegis = 5%
Elemental Defender/Hardy = 12%
Ironclad/Thick Skin = 21%
Total 0.5881*0.8*0.9*0.5*0.9*0.85*0.92*0.95*0.88*0.79=0.098 aka 90.2% Total mitigation
PTS
My resistance = 27187 aka 41.19%
Sword and Board = 20%
DK's Iron Skin = 10%
Blocking = 50%
Defensive Stance = 10%
Minor Maim = 5%
Minor Protection = 5%
Minor Aegis = 5%
Elemental Defender/Hardy = 12%
Ironclad/Thick Skin = 21%
Total 0.5881*0.8*0.9*0.5*0.9*0.95*0.95*0.95*0.88*0.79=0.1135 aka 88.65% total mitigation.
Oh and I did not account for the changes in resistance as Resolve is getting a slight buff as well. but it would not change this much at all, just close the gap slightly more.
Block bonuses (SnB, defensive stance, iron skin, bound aegis, footman set) stack additively. If you have SnB, iron skin, defensive stance 20%+10%+10% its flat 40% bonus mitigation instead of 0,8*0,9*0,9=35,2%.
LIVE: Total 0.5881*0.6*0.5*0.85*0.92*0.95*0.88*0.79=0.0911 aka 90.89% total mitigation
PTS: Total 0.5881*0.6*0.5*0.95*0.95*0.95*0.88*0.79=0.1052 aka 89.48% total mitigation
The difference between 90,89% and 89,48% is 15,47% dmg taken
Now if you add major maim which will be much easier to get
PTS: Total 0.5881*0.6*0.5*0.95*0.95*0.95*0.88*0.79*0.9=0.0946 aka 90.54% total mitigation
The difference between 90,89% and 90,54% is 3,84% dmg taken
Now if you add armor bonus from buffed resolve as you mentioned, the difference will be even less
EDIT: now I've realised you've made dmg mitigation guide I've been using whole time, sorry mate
Tanking is too easy and boring, that's why theres not enough of them. And tanks are not needed for most content, including vets.