New Trading System ideas
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ZOS_ConnorGmodGreetings all,
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You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.1 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »New players and guilds still have options, but you never see new guilds in capital traders for more than a week. They simply can't afford to compete with the big established guilds who hold raffles, drawings, auctions, sell crowns, etc.
What is interesting is I used to be in this trade guild that in the early days of this game they were in one of the hottest locations. They happened to have a very solid leader who managed the guild well. Unfortunatly he left the game and those that took over leadership were not as wise at leading the guild.
Their biggest mistakes were not actively managing the roster. The other big mistake they made was not moving to the capital cities when they became the central locations. Instead of working to right the boat, one of their assistant leads would come to the forums complaining that they could not get into a good city and wanting more traders added to help them.
A couple of years ago new leadership took over and began to actively manage the guild. They were successful in improving the guilds situation and moving them to a capital city and have continued to maintain their location.
The success in the beginning and in recent years has been due to wise leadership and hard work. Interestingly, every good guild I have been in, regardless of its focus, had leaders who lead by action and actually manage the roster.
Success is something every guild leader can bring to their guild if they actually put in the effort.
This story right here is one of the reasons I don't like trading being tied to guilds. You could give me a million stories of jesus himself coming down and saving a guild and making it the best it can be, with cheap dues, giveaways and the most social aspects where everyone sings Kumbaya and gets along.
And I'll tell you of just as many where the guild leaders completely ignore the guild, and the people who pay guild dues each week (20K!) have to worry about not getting a spot to sell. You know how *** it is to go without a trader for a week? Imagine it every other week.
And then come to find out it was because they were feuding with several other big trading guilds who would purposely outbid them in ghost guilds to blacklist them from capital cities. Imagine being happy to get Alanor after being shut out for 2 weeks straight.
The best part of this game is always going to be the worst thing about the game. People can, and WILL be a-holes to one another when resources are limited.
When in a guild with lame leaders leave the guild and find a decent one. It really is that simple. Whatever you want to do is your choice but trading is going to be linked to guilds for a long time to come. This system is what Zos wanted and it works.
1. That guild will continue being a bad guild.
2. The guilds that harassed that guild will continue being a bad guild
3. The people having to change guilds every few months will not have a good view of guilds (especially trade guilds) and will lose out on the hundreds of millions of gold invested in them.
4. Zos can and will change their minds at any time, since there's so many good option that don't put control of trading into the hands of power hungry sociapaths who don't see the 500 members as actual people.
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JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Idle curiosity question, at this point.
If all of the normal/rank and file type people leave a badly led truly sucky/toxic guild, the "guild" will still technically exist, assuming the officers who were making tons of gold or whatever stay. If the word is out that guild "Fantabulous Exploiters" scams/cheats/shortchanges their members, who is going to join, or stay once they do? How long will the guild exist if only the officers/gm stay? With no minions to go out and farm and supply the store, it will fall back on the gm/officers. If their whole reason to have a guild is to "rake in the gold", how long will they last if its only them left to do the work? If the bad gm/officers start a new guild, the same applies; people leave because the gm/guild exploits its members. How many times are the bad actors going to restart a new guild from scratch?
If the guilds/officers are harassing players for joining another guild or not joining their guild, or whatever reason they might have, why aren't the players reporting the harassment? In the case of consoles to all the appropriate agencies, Zenimax/Microsoft/Sony. If multiple reports about gm "X" start showing up, and it is against the ToS, then action will be taken. Might take a long time, might never hear the outcome, but there are people who go to reddit to complain they got banned, so it happens.
If players find a good guild with no dues, or low dues because they just want to sell stuff, not acquire more gold than the Divines, exactly how are they "losing out on the hundreds of millions of gold invested in them" if they decide to switch to a different guild? They didn't invest "hundreds of millions of gold" in the guild in the first place.
If no one follows the sociopaths, there won't be 500 people they can abuse.3 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Idle curiosity question, at this point.
If all of the normal/rank and file type people leave a badly led truly sucky/toxic guild, the "guild" will still technically exist, assuming the officers who were making tons of gold or whatever stay. If the word is out that guild "Fantabulous Exploiters" scams/cheats/shortchanges their members, who is going to join, or stay once they do? How long will the guild exist if only the officers/gm stay? With no minions to go out and farm and supply the store, it will fall back on the gm/officers. If their whole reason to have a guild is to "rake in the gold", how long will they last if its only them left to do the work? If the bad gm/officers start a new guild, the same applies; people leave because the gm/guild exploits its members. How many times are the bad actors going to restart a new guild from scratch?
If the guilds/officers are harassing players for joining another guild or not joining their guild, or whatever reason they might have, why aren't the players reporting the harassment? In the case of consoles to all the appropriate agencies, Zenimax/Microsoft/Sony. If multiple reports about gm "X" start showing up, and it is against the ToS, then action will be taken. Might take a long time, might never hear the outcome, but there are people who go to reddit to complain they got banned, so it happens.
If players find a good guild with no dues, or low dues because they just want to sell stuff, not acquire more gold than the Divines, exactly how are they "losing out on the hundreds of millions of gold invested in them" if they decide to switch to a different guild? They didn't invest "hundreds of millions of gold" in the guild in the first place.
If no one follows the sociopaths, there won't be 500 people they can abuse.
I don't know a single guild that doesn't have a discord to air their dirty laundry. You can't report what doesn't happen in the game.
1. Bad guilds usually start out as good guilds and to 90% of the members the drama happens behind the scenes. The average guild newbie does not concern himself with securing a trader, or holding raffles/donations/etc.
2. People will join and stay as long as there's a good trader, they do not care about drama and do not care about guild chat
3. Eventually, the money will run out as people will leave when the trader does not get bought. Once the exudus begins it rarely gets turned around. Suddenly your 500 person guild turns into a 400 and you have a lot harder time getting enough to get that trader.. which then turns it in to a 300 or 200.. and then the last hundred are usually AFK that you'd be kicking if someone wanted to join the guild to replace them. I'd say this process could take 3-4 months if everything is kept hush hush and lots of events are happening in the game world to distract them
4. Sociapaths act like normal people most of the time and often move up to the top ranks of a guild quickly. We were asked on several occasions by officers in bigger guilds to make them an officer in our guild since we were also a capital city trader. Thats how the first feuds started was us saying no to that request.
5. Tons of people donate to a guild to try and get it back on track once it starts declining. Sales might not be good, inactives might go up, raffle might not be great. But we still need that trader. No trader = Death.2 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Using scare tactics, when the vast majority of the guild base are decent well-run guilds, isn’t the best way to support your point, @PizzaCat82.
Edited by Taleof2Cities on October 24, 2020 7:10PM8 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »Using scare tactics, when the vast majority of the guild base are decent well-run guilds, isn’t the best way to support your point, @PizzaCat82.
And the people that don't can feel free to join the big guilds instead of their bad small ones. Almost like there's an incentive for those guilds to harass smaller guilds.2 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »Idle curiosity question, at this point.
If all of the normal/rank and file type people leave a badly led truly sucky/toxic guild, the "guild" will still technically exist, assuming the officers who were making tons of gold or whatever stay. If the word is out that guild "Fantabulous Exploiters" scams/cheats/shortchanges their members, who is going to join, or stay once they do? How long will the guild exist if only the officers/gm stay? With no minions to go out and farm and supply the store, it will fall back on the gm/officers. If their whole reason to have a guild is to "rake in the gold", how long will they last if its only them left to do the work? If the bad gm/officers start a new guild, the same applies; people leave because the gm/guild exploits its members. How many times are the bad actors going to restart a new guild from scratch?
If the guilds/officers are harassing players for joining another guild or not joining their guild, or whatever reason they might have, why aren't the players reporting the harassment? In the case of consoles to all the appropriate agencies, Zenimax/Microsoft/Sony. If multiple reports about gm "X" start showing up, and it is against the ToS, then action will be taken. Might take a long time, might never hear the outcome, but there are people who go to reddit to complain they got banned, so it happens.
If players find a good guild with no dues, or low dues because they just want to sell stuff, not acquire more gold than the Divines, exactly how are they "losing out on the hundreds of millions of gold invested in them" if they decide to switch to a different guild? They didn't invest "hundreds of millions of gold" in the guild in the first place.
If no one follows the sociopaths, there won't be 500 people they can abuse.
I don't know a single guild that doesn't have a discord to air their dirty laundry. You can't report what doesn't happen in the game.
1. Bad guilds usually start out as good guilds and to 90% of the members the drama happens behind the scenes. The average guild newbie does not concern himself with securing a trader, or holding raffles/donations/etc.
2. People will join and stay as long as there's a good trader, they do not care about drama and do not care about guild chat
3. Eventually, the money will run out as people will leave when the trader does not get bought. Once the exudus begins it rarely gets turned around. Suddenly your 500 person guild turns into a 400 and you have a lot harder time getting enough to get that trader.. which then turns it in to a 300 or 200.. and then the last hundred are usually AFK that you'd be kicking if someone wanted to join the guild to replace them. I'd say this process could take 3-4 months if everything is kept hush hush and lots of events are happening in the game world to distract them
4. Sociapaths act like normal people most of the time and often move up to the top ranks of a guild quickly. We were asked on several occasions by officers in bigger guilds to make them an officer in our guild since we were also a capital city trader. Thats how the first feuds started was us saying no to that request.
5. Tons of people donate to a guild to try and get it back on track once it starts declining. Sales might not be good, inactives might go up, raffle might not be great. But we still need that trader. No trader = Death.
Yes, because screenshots don't exist. Multiple people reporting the same information are obviously doing it for the *** and giggles and took the time and effort to photoshop it all.
True. You know what though, when my dues and/or sales quotas keep going up, and I see other people leaving the guild, I'm going to wonder what is going on. And, hoping to avoid pointless drama, I would leave. There is no legally binding official document signed that says I can't leave a guild.
No matter how good the trader is, when the cost outweighs the returns, there is a limit to what people will be willing to pay. If, in addition to the *real* cost of winning the super uber trader spot the gm/officers are scamming gold from members, that point will be reached sooner rather than later.
Yes, the gold for the uber super trader will run out. That guild will no longer be teh uberest leetest superduper trading guild on Nirn. It would be up to the members whether to disband, or just maybe turn the teh uberest leetest superduper trading guild on Nirn into a normal trading guild. Good traders can be won for less than the world wide debt of Nirn. People might not make 2 million gold an hour every hour, but they will make gold. With 5 guilds that could all have traders it would add up. Only the super fixated obsessed people might be unhappy, but then, they can make their own superduper uber leet platinum chromium plated trading guild.
So, someone was making some kind of effort to make a cartel/mafia? Why would officers in bigger guilds ask your guild to make anyone an officer? Collusion? Spying? Again, hinky behavior is a good hint to find a better guild.
Yes, again. For the super uber leet dominate all of Nirn trading guild, losing the one specific trader *consistently* is bad. However there is more than *one* trader in the game. Having the mindset that getting a specific trader is the only way to have a trading guild isn't necessarily the best thing however. If the guild isn't overcharging exorbitant amounts for items they will still get sales at a different location.2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭volkeswagon wrote: »I wanted to start a discussion for people to offer their ideas for trading reform. I have two ideas I'd like to share. Please remember that these are just ideas so lets keep our responses limited to your own ideas and respectful feedback and suggestions to each others ideas. So here are mine.
1. Have one trading house in each zones capital city. Houses in Alliance Capitals would hold 20 guilds and ones in other places like Vivec, Alinor, Daggerfall, etc would hold 10-12. Single traders out in the country and in Outlaw refuges could be either eliminated or house 3 guilds. How traders would work is Zos would set trader value for each trader spot. For example Mournhold could be 10 million, Vivec 4-5 million, daggerfall 3 milion, etc. First come first serve. The only thing is there would be requirements to bid on certain traders. For example; to purchase a Mournhold and other top tier traders your guild must be 3 months old with 400 plus active members. To purchase the next tier trader you must have 300 active members with no guild age requirement. The next tier would require 150 active members and the third tier 50 active members. By having a system like this there would be twice the traders available and you would know how much gold you need to purchase various locations. ZOS would act as a landlord and can raise or lower trader costs as well as capacity depending on traffic and demand. This could mean different prices and trader capacities on each server. Traders would become available to purchase during the same time window as the Lux vendor and Golden are. So once you've bought a trader for your guild you know you have one and have till flip to get ready. When someone visits a trading house it would show a list of the traders there and you can search all of them at once or individually.
2. Have no trading guilds. Each individual would be required to purchase a trading license.. The listing fee and commission (formerly guild cut) would very depending on the traffic of the trader. So Mournhold traders would cost the most to list. There could be different licences with different requirements to prevent alt accounts from using the traders for their shady business. Three tiers of traders. Gold tier being Capital traders. Purple tier being Vivec Alinor, Belkarth, etc and a blue tier being the rest. To list at Purple traders and under you must be level 50. To list at gold tier you must he CP 160. Blue tier must be level 10. You can then list up to 10 items at each trader for a total of 150 listings at one time like you have now and 100 max per tier
So here you have my ideas. Obviously there could be some tweeks but you get the basics. Both ideas maintain the seperate traders model as I think one large auction house would create chaos and cut throat prices due to too much competition and market saturation. Let us hear your ideas.
Your ideas are interesting.
Me personally: I've always liked the idea to let players set up their own trading booth inside their player housing. I consider that a fair compromise so players who don't belong to guilds with traders can still sell items on the market without compromising their beloved guild trader system they are so determined to keep.
That and they need to incorporate all of the features addons like Tamrieltradecentre add into the base game. This should have already been done a long time ago.Edited by Jeremy on October 25, 2020 7:04PM2 -
DragonRacer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »Idle curiosity question, at this point.
If all of the normal/rank and file type people leave a badly led truly sucky/toxic guild, the "guild" will still technically exist, assuming the officers who were making tons of gold or whatever stay. If the word is out that guild "Fantabulous Exploiters" scams/cheats/shortchanges their members, who is going to join, or stay once they do? How long will the guild exist if only the officers/gm stay? With no minions to go out and farm and supply the store, it will fall back on the gm/officers. If their whole reason to have a guild is to "rake in the gold", how long will they last if its only them left to do the work? If the bad gm/officers start a new guild, the same applies; people leave because the gm/guild exploits its members. How many times are the bad actors going to restart a new guild from scratch?
If the guilds/officers are harassing players for joining another guild or not joining their guild, or whatever reason they might have, why aren't the players reporting the harassment? In the case of consoles to all the appropriate agencies, Zenimax/Microsoft/Sony. If multiple reports about gm "X" start showing up, and it is against the ToS, then action will be taken. Might take a long time, might never hear the outcome, but there are people who go to reddit to complain they got banned, so it happens.
If players find a good guild with no dues, or low dues because they just want to sell stuff, not acquire more gold than the Divines, exactly how are they "losing out on the hundreds of millions of gold invested in them" if they decide to switch to a different guild? They didn't invest "hundreds of millions of gold" in the guild in the first place.
If no one follows the sociopaths, there won't be 500 people they can abuse.
I don't know a single guild that doesn't have a discord to air their dirty laundry. You can't report what doesn't happen in the game.
1. Bad guilds usually start out as good guilds and to 90% of the members the drama happens behind the scenes. The average guild newbie does not concern himself with securing a trader, or holding raffles/donations/etc.
2. People will join and stay as long as there's a good trader, they do not care about drama and do not care about guild chat
3. Eventually, the money will run out as people will leave when the trader does not get bought. Once the exudus begins it rarely gets turned around. Suddenly your 500 person guild turns into a 400 and you have a lot harder time getting enough to get that trader.. which then turns it in to a 300 or 200.. and then the last hundred are usually AFK that you'd be kicking if someone wanted to join the guild to replace them. I'd say this process could take 3-4 months if everything is kept hush hush and lots of events are happening in the game world to distract them
4. Sociapaths act like normal people most of the time and often move up to the top ranks of a guild quickly. We were asked on several occasions by officers in bigger guilds to make them an officer in our guild since we were also a capital city trader. Thats how the first feuds started was us saying no to that request.
5. Tons of people donate to a guild to try and get it back on track once it starts declining. Sales might not be good, inactives might go up, raffle might not be great. But we still need that trader. No trader = Death.
Yes, because screenshots don't exist. Multiple people reporting the same information are obviously doing it for the *** and giggles and took the time and effort to photoshop it all.
True. You know what though, when my dues and/or sales quotas keep going up, and I see other people leaving the guild, I'm going to wonder what is going on. And, hoping to avoid pointless drama, I would leave. There is no legally binding official document signed that says I can't leave a guild.
No matter how good the trader is, when the cost outweighs the returns, there is a limit to what people will be willing to pay. If, in addition to the *real* cost of winning the super uber trader spot the gm/officers are scamming gold from members, that point will be reached sooner rather than later.
Yes, the gold for the uber super trader will run out. That guild will no longer be teh uberest leetest superduper trading guild on Nirn. It would be up to the members whether to disband, or just maybe turn the teh uberest leetest superduper trading guild on Nirn into a normal trading guild. Good traders can be won for less than the world wide debt of Nirn. People might not make 2 million gold an hour every hour, but they will make gold. With 5 guilds that could all have traders it would add up. Only the super fixated obsessed people might be unhappy, but then, they can make their own superduper uber leet platinum chromium plated trading guild.
So, someone was making some kind of effort to make a cartel/mafia? Why would officers in bigger guilds ask your guild to make anyone an officer? Collusion? Spying? Again, hinky behavior is a good hint to find a better guild.
Yes, again. For the super uber leet dominate all of Nirn trading guild, losing the one specific trader *consistently* is bad. However there is more than *one* trader in the game. Having the mindset that getting a specific trader is the only way to have a trading guild isn't necessarily the best thing however. If the guild isn't overcharging exorbitant amounts for items they will still get sales at a different location.
If Pizzacat’s guild was being dictated to place certain people as officers, then likely that guild was aligned with the mafia on our server. An alliance of guilds where the GMs dictate that those sort of things and assign who can bid on what trader and they all basically hold down the capitals. And were a real plague for every single non-mafia trading guild because of using ghost guilds (empty guilds selling little or nothing) to either push rival guilds out or save backup spots for themselves and their friends. And/or sell those ghost guild spots after flip to the guilds who lost.
Multi-bidding, for all its woes, really did help clean that problem of ghost guilds up almost completely on our server, so I’ll forever be grateful for that change, even though I had extreme reservations about it at first (like basically every trading guild GM did). I know I am in the minority in that opinion, as it seems to have hurt PC far more, from the threads I’ve observed.
The mafia is still around and they go back and forth with the ex-mafia guilds battling it out for the capitals.
Meanwhile, I’m just over here happy with the sub-capitals and running my own large donation-based independent guild. Wondering if that apparently also makes me a sociopath. *shrugs*
(Also, inb4 “the mafia doesn’t exist/dumb conspiracy theory” people get here...)
PS5 NA. GM of The PTK's - a free trading guild (CP 500+). Also a werewolf, bites are free when they're available. PSN = DragonRacer132 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »
Yeah, I agree. No system should be reliant on outside third party programs to function in a reasonable manner. I honestly don't know how you console players put up with it.
Do you actually spend hours watching load screens while running around to different traders trying to find that one motif or specific trait on an item you're after?
I guess at least now you have a working search feature. So it's not quite as likely to drive you to toward suicide as it once was. haha
Edited by Jeremy on October 25, 2020 7:35PM0 -
umagon✭✭✭✭✭I would like a trading system that is fast and efficient. Where I can search for all available items on the market in one place. Be able to query for different items in one search field and have the results returned in one go. For example, if I enter into the search field: tempering alloy;diagrams:epic;furnishing:clockwork I should get all the listings for tempering alloy, epic diagrams, and all the clockwork furniture on the market in one pass.
And a trading system where I can list items for sell without some type of player driven group requirement. Just simple listing fees of 3-5% and listing limits for the number of items one can post at a given time. Fast and efficient, just listing no guild or people drama about undercutting or large volume sells.
I find the guild trading system to be inefficient when it comes to fining items because one has to spend all day going to each trader and searching for every item, they are looking for individually. It should not take hours to find out if something is on the market or not, and to compare prices.
The addons and websites are not reliable, they do not update in real time. There have been so many times where I would search for a listing and see it was posted 2mins ago then head to that trader only to find the item not there. Wasting even more of my time. Now I just use them to get an idea on how much an item is going for. Because the search is mostly useless with no real time updates.
While the guild trader system may be unique that uniqueness is not fast or efficient; it largely a waste of time. And I avoid it as much as possible.
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Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I would like a trading system that is fast and efficient. Where I can search for all available items on the market in one place. Be able to query for different items in one search field and have the results returned in one go. For example, if I enter into the search field: tempering alloy;diagrams:epic;furnishing:clockwork I should get all the listings for tempering alloy, epic diagrams, and all the clockwork furniture on the market in one pass.
And a trading system where I can list items for sell without some type of player driven group requirement. Just simple listing fees of 3-5% and listing limits for the number of items one can post at a given time. Fast and efficient, just listing no guild or people drama about undercutting or large volume sells.
I find the guild trading system to be inefficient when it comes to fining items because one has to spend all day going to each trader and searching for every item, they are looking for individually. It should not take hours to find out if something is on the market or not, and to compare prices.
The addons and websites are not reliable, they do not update in real time. There have been so many times where I would search for a listing and see it was posted 2mins ago then head to that trader only to find the item not there. Wasting even more of my time. Now I just use them to get an idea on how much an item is going for. Because the search is mostly useless with no real time updates.
While the guild trader system may be unique that uniqueness is not fast or efficient; it largely a waste of time. And I avoid it as much as possible.
Exactly. Now, if I was a broke newbie, I wouldn't know what to do. What I DO is search the kiosks in Vivec when I want/need something - if it's there, I buy it, and I don't even care if it's overpriced. If it's not there, I will check a couple of other capitals - usually Wayrest and Alinor - and if I still can't find it, I shrug and get over it.
I don't generally bother with TTC because I found early on that you might think you know where to find something, but the reason you see it on the site is because someone just bought it.... so you're several load screens into it and then find out it's not there.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »New players and guilds still have options, but you never see new guilds in capital traders for more than a week. They simply can't afford to compete with the big established guilds who hold raffles, drawings, auctions, sell crowns, etc.
What is interesting is I used to be in this trade guild that in the early days of this game they were in one of the hottest locations. They happened to have a very solid leader who managed the guild well. Unfortunatly he left the game and those that took over leadership were not as wise at leading the guild.
Their biggest mistakes were not actively managing the roster. The other big mistake they made was not moving to the capital cities when they became the central locations. Instead of working to right the boat, one of their assistant leads would come to the forums complaining that they could not get into a good city and wanting more traders added to help them.
A couple of years ago new leadership took over and began to actively manage the guild. They were successful in improving the guilds situation and moving them to a capital city and have continued to maintain their location.
The success in the beginning and in recent years has been due to wise leadership and hard work. Interestingly, every good guild I have been in, regardless of its focus, had leaders who lead by action and actually manage the roster.
Success is something every guild leader can bring to their guild if they actually put in the effort.
This story right here is one of the reasons I don't like trading being tied to guilds. You could give me a million stories of jesus himself coming down and saving a guild and making it the best it can be, with cheap dues, giveaways and the most social aspects where everyone sings Kumbaya and gets along.
And I'll tell you of just as many where the guild leaders completely ignore the guild, and the people who pay guild dues each week (20K!) have to worry about not getting a spot to sell. You know how *** it is to go without a trader for a week? Imagine it every other week.
And then come to find out it was because they were feuding with several other big trading guilds who would purposely outbid them in ghost guilds to blacklist them from capital cities. Imagine being happy to get Alanor after being shut out for 2 weeks straight.
The best part of this game is always going to be the worst thing about the game. People can, and WILL be a-holes to one another when resources are limited.
When in a guild with lame leaders leave the guild and find a decent one. It really is that simple. Whatever you want to do is your choice but trading is going to be linked to guilds for a long time to come. This system is what Zos wanted and it works.
1. That guild will continue being a bad guild.
2. The guilds that harassed that guild will continue being a bad guild
3. The people having to change guilds every few months will not have a good view of guilds (especially trade guilds) and will lose out on the hundreds of millions of gold invested in them.
4. Zos can and will change their minds at any time, since there's so many good option that don't put control of trading into the hands of power hungry sociapaths who don't see the 500 members as actual people.
1 & 2. Again, leave a bad guild. That is very simple and straight towards. If some members are not sharp enough to figure this out then that is their problem.
3. I have been in two trade guilds in over six years with the game. It does not take much effort to find a decent trade guild.
4. Oh yes, Zos can change their mind at any time. Will they change it anytime soon, very unlikely as the system is working and it has proven to be a good system. Just because some people do no like it does not make it a bad system. The power-hungry sociopaths part seems rather that someone just does not like guilds at all and irrelevant to the trade guilds.3 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »New players and guilds still have options, but you never see new guilds in capital traders for more than a week. They simply can't afford to compete with the big established guilds who hold raffles, drawings, auctions, sell crowns, etc.
What is interesting is I used to be in this trade guild that in the early days of this game they were in one of the hottest locations. They happened to have a very solid leader who managed the guild well. Unfortunatly he left the game and those that took over leadership were not as wise at leading the guild.
Their biggest mistakes were not actively managing the roster. The other big mistake they made was not moving to the capital cities when they became the central locations. Instead of working to right the boat, one of their assistant leads would come to the forums complaining that they could not get into a good city and wanting more traders added to help them.
A couple of years ago new leadership took over and began to actively manage the guild. They were successful in improving the guilds situation and moving them to a capital city and have continued to maintain their location.
The success in the beginning and in recent years has been due to wise leadership and hard work. Interestingly, every good guild I have been in, regardless of its focus, had leaders who lead by action and actually manage the roster.
Success is something every guild leader can bring to their guild if they actually put in the effort.
This story right here is one of the reasons I don't like trading being tied to guilds. You could give me a million stories of jesus himself coming down and saving a guild and making it the best it can be, with cheap dues, giveaways and the most social aspects where everyone sings Kumbaya and gets along.
And I'll tell you of just as many where the guild leaders completely ignore the guild, and the people who pay guild dues each week (20K!) have to worry about not getting a spot to sell. You know how *** it is to go without a trader for a week? Imagine it every other week.
And then come to find out it was because they were feuding with several other big trading guilds who would purposely outbid them in ghost guilds to blacklist them from capital cities. Imagine being happy to get Alanor after being shut out for 2 weeks straight.
The best part of this game is always going to be the worst thing about the game. People can, and WILL be a-holes to one another when resources are limited.
When in a guild with lame leaders leave the guild and find a decent one. It really is that simple. Whatever you want to do is your choice but trading is going to be linked to guilds for a long time to come. This system is what Zos wanted and it works.
1. That guild will continue being a bad guild.
2. The guilds that harassed that guild will continue being a bad guild
3. The people having to change guilds every few months will not have a good view of guilds (especially trade guilds) and will lose out on the hundreds of millions of gold invested in them.
4. Zos can and will change their minds at any time, since there's so many good option that don't put control of trading into the hands of power hungry sociapaths who don't see the 500 members as actual people.
1 & 2. Again, leave a bad guild. That is very simple and straight towards. If some members are not sharp enough to figure this out then that is their problem.
3. I have been in two trade guilds in over six years with the game. It does not take much effort to find a decent trade guild.
4. Oh yes, Zos can change their mind at any time. Will they change it anytime soon, very unlikely as the system is working and it has proven to be a good system. Just because some people do no like it does not make it a bad system. The power-hungry sociopaths part seems rather that someone just does not like guilds at all and irrelevant to the trade guilds.
I love guilds, but they don't need to be part of the trading process.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »New players and guilds still have options, but you never see new guilds in capital traders for more than a week. They simply can't afford to compete with the big established guilds who hold raffles, drawings, auctions, sell crowns, etc.
What is interesting is I used to be in this trade guild that in the early days of this game they were in one of the hottest locations. They happened to have a very solid leader who managed the guild well. Unfortunatly he left the game and those that took over leadership were not as wise at leading the guild.
Their biggest mistakes were not actively managing the roster. The other big mistake they made was not moving to the capital cities when they became the central locations. Instead of working to right the boat, one of their assistant leads would come to the forums complaining that they could not get into a good city and wanting more traders added to help them.
A couple of years ago new leadership took over and began to actively manage the guild. They were successful in improving the guilds situation and moving them to a capital city and have continued to maintain their location.
The success in the beginning and in recent years has been due to wise leadership and hard work. Interestingly, every good guild I have been in, regardless of its focus, had leaders who lead by action and actually manage the roster.
Success is something every guild leader can bring to their guild if they actually put in the effort.
This story right here is one of the reasons I don't like trading being tied to guilds. You could give me a million stories of jesus himself coming down and saving a guild and making it the best it can be, with cheap dues, giveaways and the most social aspects where everyone sings Kumbaya and gets along.
And I'll tell you of just as many where the guild leaders completely ignore the guild, and the people who pay guild dues each week (20K!) have to worry about not getting a spot to sell. You know how *** it is to go without a trader for a week? Imagine it every other week.
And then come to find out it was because they were feuding with several other big trading guilds who would purposely outbid them in ghost guilds to blacklist them from capital cities. Imagine being happy to get Alanor after being shut out for 2 weeks straight.
The best part of this game is always going to be the worst thing about the game. People can, and WILL be a-holes to one another when resources are limited.
When in a guild with lame leaders leave the guild and find a decent one. It really is that simple. Whatever you want to do is your choice but trading is going to be linked to guilds for a long time to come. This system is what Zos wanted and it works.
1. That guild will continue being a bad guild.
2. The guilds that harassed that guild will continue being a bad guild
3. The people having to change guilds every few months will not have a good view of guilds (especially trade guilds) and will lose out on the hundreds of millions of gold invested in them.
4. Zos can and will change their minds at any time, since there's so many good option that don't put control of trading into the hands of power hungry sociapaths who don't see the 500 members as actual people.
1 & 2. Again, leave a bad guild. That is very simple and straight towards. If some members are not sharp enough to figure this out then that is their problem.
3. I have been in two trade guilds in over six years with the game. It does not take much effort to find a decent trade guild.
4. Oh yes, Zos can change their mind at any time. Will they change it anytime soon, very unlikely as the system is working and it has proven to be a good system. Just because some people do no like it does not make it a bad system. The power-hungry sociopaths part seems rather that someone just does not like guilds at all and irrelevant to the trade guilds.
I love guilds, but they don't need to be part of the trading process.
In ESO they are and they will continue to be for a long time to come.
I just assumed you did not like guilds since you referred to guild leaders as power-hungry sociopaths. That would not apply only to a specific guild.6 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »New players and guilds still have options, but you never see new guilds in capital traders for more than a week. They simply can't afford to compete with the big established guilds who hold raffles, drawings, auctions, sell crowns, etc.
What is interesting is I used to be in this trade guild that in the early days of this game they were in one of the hottest locations. They happened to have a very solid leader who managed the guild well. Unfortunatly he left the game and those that took over leadership were not as wise at leading the guild.
Their biggest mistakes were not actively managing the roster. The other big mistake they made was not moving to the capital cities when they became the central locations. Instead of working to right the boat, one of their assistant leads would come to the forums complaining that they could not get into a good city and wanting more traders added to help them.
A couple of years ago new leadership took over and began to actively manage the guild. They were successful in improving the guilds situation and moving them to a capital city and have continued to maintain their location.
The success in the beginning and in recent years has been due to wise leadership and hard work. Interestingly, every good guild I have been in, regardless of its focus, had leaders who lead by action and actually manage the roster.
Success is something every guild leader can bring to their guild if they actually put in the effort.
This story right here is one of the reasons I don't like trading being tied to guilds. You could give me a million stories of jesus himself coming down and saving a guild and making it the best it can be, with cheap dues, giveaways and the most social aspects where everyone sings Kumbaya and gets along.
And I'll tell you of just as many where the guild leaders completely ignore the guild, and the people who pay guild dues each week (20K!) have to worry about not getting a spot to sell. You know how *** it is to go without a trader for a week? Imagine it every other week.
And then come to find out it was because they were feuding with several other big trading guilds who would purposely outbid them in ghost guilds to blacklist them from capital cities. Imagine being happy to get Alanor after being shut out for 2 weeks straight.
The best part of this game is always going to be the worst thing about the game. People can, and WILL be a-holes to one another when resources are limited.
When in a guild with lame leaders leave the guild and find a decent one. It really is that simple. Whatever you want to do is your choice but trading is going to be linked to guilds for a long time to come. This system is what Zos wanted and it works.
1. That guild will continue being a bad guild.
2. The guilds that harassed that guild will continue being a bad guild
3. The people having to change guilds every few months will not have a good view of guilds (especially trade guilds) and will lose out on the hundreds of millions of gold invested in them.
4. Zos can and will change their minds at any time, since there's so many good option that don't put control of trading into the hands of power hungry sociapaths who don't see the 500 members as actual people.
1 & 2. Again, leave a bad guild. That is very simple and straight towards. If some members are not sharp enough to figure this out then that is their problem.
3. I have been in two trade guilds in over six years with the game. It does not take much effort to find a decent trade guild.
4. Oh yes, Zos can change their mind at any time. Will they change it anytime soon, very unlikely as the system is working and it has proven to be a good system. Just because some people do no like it does not make it a bad system. The power-hungry sociopaths part seems rather that someone just does not like guilds at all and irrelevant to the trade guilds.
I love guilds, but they don't need to be part of the trading process.
In ESO they are and they will continue to be for a long time to come.
I just assumed you did not like guilds since you referred to guild leaders as power-hungry sociopaths. That would not apply only to a specific guild.
As long as we are put against each other for the privilege of being able to trade conveniently we will continue to have threads like this, for a long time to come. More traders would only make things harder for buyers. In ESO, if you want to trade consistently in a good place you have to join a big trading guild and deal with everything that comes with it, whether you want to or not.
"Trading is not for casuals or new players"
That's the biggest problem with the guild system, as you have to continue to be active and continue to sell things to even be in a trading guild. And if you're in the wrong trading guild? Well, good luck selling your stuff in guild only , or in chat.3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭We are not put against each other. Also, I have been in the same trading guild since late 2014 and have never had to pay dues yet we are in a solid location. I did take a break, and as happened with all my guilds, I was kicked out. When I came back I was able to get a quick invite and trudged along with my game. No issues, no problems.2 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭We are not put against each other. Also, I have been in the same trading guild since late 2014 and have never had to pay dues yet we are in a solid location. I did take a break, and as happened with all my guilds, I was kicked out. When I came back I was able to get a quick invite and trudged along with my game. No issues, no problems.
The fact that you don't have to pay dues is extremely telling of your PC Addon privilege.4 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DragonRacer wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »Idle curiosity question, at this point.
If all of the normal/rank and file type people leave a badly led truly sucky/toxic guild, the "guild" will still technically exist, assuming the officers who were making tons of gold or whatever stay. If the word is out that guild "Fantabulous Exploiters" scams/cheats/shortchanges their members, who is going to join, or stay once they do? How long will the guild exist if only the officers/gm stay? With no minions to go out and farm and supply the store, it will fall back on the gm/officers. If their whole reason to have a guild is to "rake in the gold", how long will they last if its only them left to do the work? If the bad gm/officers start a new guild, the same applies; people leave because the gm/guild exploits its members. How many times are the bad actors going to restart a new guild from scratch?
If the guilds/officers are harassing players for joining another guild or not joining their guild, or whatever reason they might have, why aren't the players reporting the harassment? In the case of consoles to all the appropriate agencies, Zenimax/Microsoft/Sony. If multiple reports about gm "X" start showing up, and it is against the ToS, then action will be taken. Might take a long time, might never hear the outcome, but there are people who go to reddit to complain they got banned, so it happens.
If players find a good guild with no dues, or low dues because they just want to sell stuff, not acquire more gold than the Divines, exactly how are they "losing out on the hundreds of millions of gold invested in them" if they decide to switch to a different guild? They didn't invest "hundreds of millions of gold" in the guild in the first place.
If no one follows the sociopaths, there won't be 500 people they can abuse.
I don't know a single guild that doesn't have a discord to air their dirty laundry. You can't report what doesn't happen in the game.
1. Bad guilds usually start out as good guilds and to 90% of the members the drama happens behind the scenes. The average guild newbie does not concern himself with securing a trader, or holding raffles/donations/etc.
2. People will join and stay as long as there's a good trader, they do not care about drama and do not care about guild chat
3. Eventually, the money will run out as people will leave when the trader does not get bought. Once the exudus begins it rarely gets turned around. Suddenly your 500 person guild turns into a 400 and you have a lot harder time getting enough to get that trader.. which then turns it in to a 300 or 200.. and then the last hundred are usually AFK that you'd be kicking if someone wanted to join the guild to replace them. I'd say this process could take 3-4 months if everything is kept hush hush and lots of events are happening in the game world to distract them
4. Sociapaths act like normal people most of the time and often move up to the top ranks of a guild quickly. We were asked on several occasions by officers in bigger guilds to make them an officer in our guild since we were also a capital city trader. Thats how the first feuds started was us saying no to that request.
5. Tons of people donate to a guild to try and get it back on track once it starts declining. Sales might not be good, inactives might go up, raffle might not be great. But we still need that trader. No trader = Death.
Yes, because screenshots don't exist. Multiple people reporting the same information are obviously doing it for the *** and giggles and took the time and effort to photoshop it all.
True. You know what though, when my dues and/or sales quotas keep going up, and I see other people leaving the guild, I'm going to wonder what is going on. And, hoping to avoid pointless drama, I would leave. There is no legally binding official document signed that says I can't leave a guild.
No matter how good the trader is, when the cost outweighs the returns, there is a limit to what people will be willing to pay. If, in addition to the *real* cost of winning the super uber trader spot the gm/officers are scamming gold from members, that point will be reached sooner rather than later.
Yes, the gold for the uber super trader will run out. That guild will no longer be teh uberest leetest superduper trading guild on Nirn. It would be up to the members whether to disband, or just maybe turn the teh uberest leetest superduper trading guild on Nirn into a normal trading guild. Good traders can be won for less than the world wide debt of Nirn. People might not make 2 million gold an hour every hour, but they will make gold. With 5 guilds that could all have traders it would add up. Only the super fixated obsessed people might be unhappy, but then, they can make their own superduper uber leet platinum chromium plated trading guild.
So, someone was making some kind of effort to make a cartel/mafia? Why would officers in bigger guilds ask your guild to make anyone an officer? Collusion? Spying? Again, hinky behavior is a good hint to find a better guild.
Yes, again. For the super uber leet dominate all of Nirn trading guild, losing the one specific trader *consistently* is bad. However there is more than *one* trader in the game. Having the mindset that getting a specific trader is the only way to have a trading guild isn't necessarily the best thing however. If the guild isn't overcharging exorbitant amounts for items they will still get sales at a different location.
If Pizzacat’s guild was being dictated to place certain people as officers, then likely that guild was aligned with the mafia on our server. An alliance of guilds where the GMs dictate that those sort of things and assign who can bid on what trader and they all basically hold down the capitals. And were a real plague for every single non-mafia trading guild because of using ghost guilds (empty guilds selling little or nothing) to either push rival guilds out or save backup spots for themselves and their friends. And/or sell those ghost guild spots after flip to the guilds who lost.
Multi-bidding, for all its woes, really did help clean that problem of ghost guilds up almost completely on our server, so I’ll forever be grateful for that change, even though I had extreme reservations about it at first (like basically every trading guild GM did). I know I am in the minority in that opinion, as it seems to have hurt PC far more, from the threads I’ve observed.
The mafia is still around and they go back and forth with the ex-mafia guilds battling it out for the capitals.
Meanwhile, I’m just over here happy with the sub-capitals and running my own large donation-based independent guild. Wondering if that apparently also makes me a sociopath. *shrugs*
(Also, inb4 “the mafia doesn’t exist/dumb conspiracy theory” people get here...)
By the Divines; you mean a trading guild can actually survive without charging billions in dues? And there really is more than one trader in the game? [Yes, sarcasm intended.]
Yes, from former wonderful [allegedly] people who came here to boast about their mafia harassment and intimidation tactics on console, I believe the "mafia" mindset does exist. Why they are allowed to get away with it is one of my questions. Why people put up with it is another.
The majority of players, *in my opinion*, would be perfectly happy with a donation/voluntary raffle based guild. The people who want to sell the odd motif or event loot aren't going to make enough of a profit to pay thousands in dues or sales to worry about a super top tier uber trading guild. Those do exist for people who want to play Elder Scrolls Traders Online.
0 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »We are not put against each other. Also, I have been in the same trading guild since late 2014 and have never had to pay dues yet we are in a solid location. I did take a break, and as happened with all my guilds, I was kicked out. When I came back I was able to get a quick invite and trudged along with my game. No issues, no problems.
The fact that you don't have to pay dues is extremely telling of your PC Addon privilege.
And how does pc having addons have anything at all to do with not paying dues?
5 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »We are not put against each other. Also, I have been in the same trading guild since late 2014 and have never had to pay dues yet we are in a solid location. I did take a break, and as happened with all my guilds, I was kicked out. When I came back I was able to get a quick invite and trudged along with my game. No issues, no problems.
The fact that you don't have to pay dues is extremely telling of your PC Addon privilege.
And how does pc having addons have anything at all to do with not paying dues?
Because most traders in major cities on PC check indvidual selling by addons. Consoles don't have that luxury.4 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »We are not put against each other. Also, I have been in the same trading guild since late 2014 and have never had to pay dues yet we are in a solid location. I did take a break, and as happened with all my guilds, I was kicked out. When I came back I was able to get a quick invite and trudged along with my game. No issues, no problems.
The fact that you don't have to pay dues is extremely telling of your PC Addon privilege.
Since we have guides on PC that charge dues and the one I am in does not the access to addons is irrelevant.3 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »We are not put against each other. Also, I have been in the same trading guild since late 2014 and have never had to pay dues yet we are in a solid location. I did take a break, and as happened with all my guilds, I was kicked out. When I came back I was able to get a quick invite and trudged along with my game. No issues, no problems.
The fact that you don't have to pay dues is extremely telling of your PC Addon privilege.
Since we have guides on PC that charge dues and the one I am in does not the access to addons is irrelevant.
Then it sounds like you're in a guild that's not in fierce competition for its trading spot, and "solid location"is relative depending on what system you use.
Any trader is a solid location when you have an add-on telling you where to buy things.
3 -
Tabbycat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There are a lot of places ZOS could add additional Guild Traders to help relieve the stress of too few guild traders for too many guilds.
For example, Stros M'kai has locations for up to 5 Guild Traders but there's only one there. Why?Founder and Co-GM of The Psijic Order Guild (NA)
0.016%3 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DragonRacer wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »Idle curiosity question, at this point.
If all of the normal/rank and file type people leave a badly led truly sucky/toxic guild, the "guild" will still technically exist, assuming the officers who were making tons of gold or whatever stay. If the word is out that guild "Fantabulous Exploiters" scams/cheats/shortchanges their members, who is going to join, or stay once they do? How long will the guild exist if only the officers/gm stay? With no minions to go out and farm and supply the store, it will fall back on the gm/officers. If their whole reason to have a guild is to "rake in the gold", how long will they last if its only them left to do the work? If the bad gm/officers start a new guild, the same applies; people leave because the gm/guild exploits its members. How many times are the bad actors going to restart a new guild from scratch?
If the guilds/officers are harassing players for joining another guild or not joining their guild, or whatever reason they might have, why aren't the players reporting the harassment? In the case of consoles to all the appropriate agencies, Zenimax/Microsoft/Sony. If multiple reports about gm "X" start showing up, and it is against the ToS, then action will be taken. Might take a long time, might never hear the outcome, but there are people who go to reddit to complain they got banned, so it happens.
If players find a good guild with no dues, or low dues because they just want to sell stuff, not acquire more gold than the Divines, exactly how are they "losing out on the hundreds of millions of gold invested in them" if they decide to switch to a different guild? They didn't invest "hundreds of millions of gold" in the guild in the first place.
If no one follows the sociopaths, there won't be 500 people they can abuse.
I don't know a single guild that doesn't have a discord to air their dirty laundry. You can't report what doesn't happen in the game.
1. Bad guilds usually start out as good guilds and to 90% of the members the drama happens behind the scenes. The average guild newbie does not concern himself with securing a trader, or holding raffles/donations/etc.
2. People will join and stay as long as there's a good trader, they do not care about drama and do not care about guild chat
3. Eventually, the money will run out as people will leave when the trader does not get bought. Once the exudus begins it rarely gets turned around. Suddenly your 500 person guild turns into a 400 and you have a lot harder time getting enough to get that trader.. which then turns it in to a 300 or 200.. and then the last hundred are usually AFK that you'd be kicking if someone wanted to join the guild to replace them. I'd say this process could take 3-4 months if everything is kept hush hush and lots of events are happening in the game world to distract them
4. Sociapaths act like normal people most of the time and often move up to the top ranks of a guild quickly. We were asked on several occasions by officers in bigger guilds to make them an officer in our guild since we were also a capital city trader. Thats how the first feuds started was us saying no to that request.
5. Tons of people donate to a guild to try and get it back on track once it starts declining. Sales might not be good, inactives might go up, raffle might not be great. But we still need that trader. No trader = Death.
Yes, because screenshots don't exist. Multiple people reporting the same information are obviously doing it for the *** and giggles and took the time and effort to photoshop it all.
True. You know what though, when my dues and/or sales quotas keep going up, and I see other people leaving the guild, I'm going to wonder what is going on. And, hoping to avoid pointless drama, I would leave. There is no legally binding official document signed that says I can't leave a guild.
No matter how good the trader is, when the cost outweighs the returns, there is a limit to what people will be willing to pay. If, in addition to the *real* cost of winning the super uber trader spot the gm/officers are scamming gold from members, that point will be reached sooner rather than later.
Yes, the gold for the uber super trader will run out. That guild will no longer be teh uberest leetest superduper trading guild on Nirn. It would be up to the members whether to disband, or just maybe turn the teh uberest leetest superduper trading guild on Nirn into a normal trading guild. Good traders can be won for less than the world wide debt of Nirn. People might not make 2 million gold an hour every hour, but they will make gold. With 5 guilds that could all have traders it would add up. Only the super fixated obsessed people might be unhappy, but then, they can make their own superduper uber leet platinum chromium plated trading guild.
So, someone was making some kind of effort to make a cartel/mafia? Why would officers in bigger guilds ask your guild to make anyone an officer? Collusion? Spying? Again, hinky behavior is a good hint to find a better guild.
Yes, again. For the super uber leet dominate all of Nirn trading guild, losing the one specific trader *consistently* is bad. However there is more than *one* trader in the game. Having the mindset that getting a specific trader is the only way to have a trading guild isn't necessarily the best thing however. If the guild isn't overcharging exorbitant amounts for items they will still get sales at a different location.
If Pizzacat’s guild was being dictated to place certain people as officers, then likely that guild was aligned with the mafia on our server. An alliance of guilds where the GMs dictate that those sort of things and assign who can bid on what trader and they all basically hold down the capitals. And were a real plague for every single non-mafia trading guild because of using ghost guilds (empty guilds selling little or nothing) to either push rival guilds out or save backup spots for themselves and their friends. And/or sell those ghost guild spots after flip to the guilds who lost.
Multi-bidding, for all its woes, really did help clean that problem of ghost guilds up almost completely on our server, so I’ll forever be grateful for that change, even though I had extreme reservations about it at first (like basically every trading guild GM did). I know I am in the minority in that opinion, as it seems to have hurt PC far more, from the threads I’ve observed.
The mafia is still around and they go back and forth with the ex-mafia guilds battling it out for the capitals.
Meanwhile, I’m just over here happy with the sub-capitals and running my own large donation-based independent guild. Wondering if that apparently also makes me a sociopath. *shrugs*
(Also, inb4 “the mafia doesn’t exist/dumb conspiracy theory” people get here...)
By the Divines; you mean a trading guild can actually survive without charging billions in dues? And there really is more than one trader in the game? [Yes, sarcasm intended.]
Yes, from former wonderful [allegedly] people who came here to boast about their mafia harassment and intimidation tactics on console, I believe the "mafia" mindset does exist. Why they are allowed to get away with it is one of my questions. Why people put up with it is another.
The majority of players, *in my opinion*, would be perfectly happy with a donation/voluntary raffle based guild. The people who want to sell the odd motif or event loot aren't going to make enough of a profit to pay thousands in dues or sales to worry about a super top tier uber trading guild. Those do exist for people who want to play Elder Scrolls Traders Online.
1. They are allowed to get away with it because there's always another high level guild to join, and ZOS does not take action unless they are absolutely forced to (just reporting someone often does nothing, even in cases of scamming)
2. There are small guilds with out of the way traders who are donation based but Its a lot harder to sell in those places without add-ons. You'll get 50-75% of your stuff back in a month as expired.3 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I would like to see a board in the capitol city of each zone that lists the items that can be found in that zone and what traders have that item. There would be no prices listed only locations. That way players that just want an item and don't care the price can go to most convenient trader to purchase that item. Players that want to bargain shop are going to have to visit each trader that has the item and compare prices.
The reason I suggest not seeing prices is for some players trading is their end game. Flipping items for a profit is what they find fun. Listing prices on a central board would take away this part of the game.
I would also like to see one (maybe two) traders added along side all the single traders out and about in the world. That way there would be more incentive to visit traders in thieves dens or out in the wild near wayshrines.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."1 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »
2. There are small guilds with out of the way traders who are donation based but Its a lot harder to sell in those places without add-ons. You'll get 50-75% of your stuff back in a month as expired.
That's entirely the point of a casual trader location that's "off the beaten path", @PizzaCat82.
Being in a casual trading guild means a lower tier of work to keep the guild going (and keeping the trader location).
It also means less dues (or in many cases no dues).
Sure, the traffic is lower ... but that's what the mellow environment is for.
Players have to be aware of whether this is the kind of guild that fits their desired trading playstyle.
Especially if they're a new player that needs to sell their Primal Style Book and 5 Oko Essence Runes they found completing the zone main quest.5 -
Veinblood1965✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭volkeswagon wrote: »Ask everyone who complains about it. So you are for the status quo which is fine.
People who complain are the same types you see in dungeons spamming LAs and refusing to learn the game. People dont wanna put in any effort. It's not difficult to meet quotas/dues. Join guild and trade. Same goes for GMs. The ones who do the work, raffles, auctions etc have no trouble securing traders.
A second insightful.
And an insightful for you for being insightful.0 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »
2. There are small guilds with out of the way traders who are donation based but Its a lot harder to sell in those places without add-ons. You'll get 50-75% of your stuff back in a month as expired.
That's entirely the point of a casual trader location that's "off the beaten path", @PizzaCat82.
Being in a casual trading guild means a lower tier of work to keep the guild going (and keeping the trader location).
It also means less dues (or in many cases no dues).
Sure, the traffic is lower ... but that's what the mellow environment is for.
Players have to be aware of whether this is the kind of guild that fits their desired trading playstyle.
Especially if they're a new player that needs to sell their Primal Style Book and 5 Oko Essence Runes they found completing the zone main quest.
If only there were a trading system that could accommodate all play-styles and avoid toxic guild harassment...Edited by PizzaCat82 on October 26, 2020 6:26PM5