Do you think races need to be re-balanced?

emilyhyoyeon · October 2020

Yes

Orc is overloaded

SodanTok · October 2020

Yes

JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Most races are pretty good now. The ones I'd like to tweak is Khajiit which is bad compared to other DPS races, and Orc which overperforms.

Grossly. Removing their free HP would go a long way.

What would they replace the health with? Magicka? No reason to, on an orc... more stamina regen? Thats worse then the health. Resistances? Same as health

orc overperforms on dps base... not health base. Orcs are overbuffed. They needs to have one of his two damage stats reduced...

Their health is not something that would even go a short way... cus they would have to replace it with something... Something that would be much more... vile

Health equals stamina in PVE so health is damage stat. They dont need to replace it with magicka or resistance, bosmer has stamina like orc and sustain like orc has damage (dont get me started how unequal these values are) and there is no health, no other damage bonus than 1500 pen from dodge rolling. Same with all other races.

Orc's health is what makes it stand above all other races in PVE. You remove it and it will still be best stam PVE race, but because it has the best selection of stats (stam, weapon damage and no magicka to reduce either) not because of that and having extra damage stat.

Marginis · October 2020

No

Honestly, compared to where things were, I think the current balance is good. Not just fine, not absolutely great, but, you know, good. Aside from a few players salty that their preferred race doesn't do the specific thing they want it to, or lacks the specific bonus they built around in a previous balance, I don't think there's all too much to complain about either. I mean, I've had a magicka based khajiit since the game came out, and truth be told it wasn't THAT bad when I was stuck with that useless stamina passive. I found a way to make it relevant. Those complaining about their Bosmer or previously overpowered Nords should do the same.

Firstmep · October 2020

Yes

Red guard could use some love, and some more Magicka races with max hp bonuses would be great.
Since bloodspawn nerf Nord is kinda the go to race for most Stam classes, especially with balorgh being as strong as it is.
Nord is even great for proc builds just for the extra mitigation you get.
Orc wood elf imperial IMHO in a decent spot pvp wise.
Breton high and argonian also in similar shoes, they're pretty good.
Khajit defo could use some love as well.
Dark elf is kinda eh IMHO.

Onefrkncrzypope · October 2020

Yes

Yes there needs to be a rebalance. But not right now, class and sets have a larger impact and need far more attention.
But I got opinions:

Damage races should not have a health buff too. Health = tankier on the small scale of races

Sustain races should be able to use bistat and build full damage while damage races should use sustain for to build sustain and health.

Racial passives should only be like swim faster. Easier to learn blacksmithing or magic staff line.

Race in game should be a cosmetic choice and some none combat flair. If it has to be lore based then put the combat passives on the birth stars instead. Makes the whole MMO stereotyping races thing go away. Kinda an backwards system to still exist in 2020 anyway.

Ascarl · October 2020

Yes

This one thinks both Band of Malakath and reduced crit rate hit the Khajiit people very hard.

twing1_ · October 2020

Yes

Gonna leave this here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/459197/racial-rebalance-v4-3-x/p1

This is how I think they should be rebalanced

katorga · October 2020

No

Races don't need to be rebalanced:

1. changes made based on the current meta, won't apply when the meta changes next patch.
2. In a proc meta races doesn't really matter.
3. Rebalancing on produces new BiS races, winners and losers, and the cycle just repeats.

Even if by the tiniest degree, something is always BiS. The only way to achieve balance is remove racial passives altogether.

ke.sardenb14_ESO · October 2020

Yes

Personally I'd increase the primary resources of the sustain races to better close the gap between races with flat damage buffs.

idk · October 2020

I would suggest that only 105 votes, as of this post, in over a week's time speak louder than the poll itself. It shows people do not feel strong enough that races are heavily unbalanced to even consider voting or that the choices of an absolute heavy rebalance or nothing as posed by the poll does not offer them the more correct option concerning minor tweaks. After all, many who have posted in this thread have said that minor tweaks are all they feel is needed.

Tsar_Gekkou · October 2020

Didn't Zos say a while back that they were gonna rebalance stam soon since pretty much all endgame stam dps are orcs?

kojou · October 2020

Yes

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

Didn't Zos say a while back that they were gonna rebalance stam soon since pretty much all endgame stam dps are orcs?

I hope so.

llBlack_Heartll · October 2020

No

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

Didn't Zos say a while back that they were gonna rebalance stam soon since pretty much all endgame stam dps are orcs?

Id rather see all classes buffed to Orc standard then add any further nerfs.

Bucky_13 · October 2020

Yes

Bosmers being bad at stealth makes no sense, give them back their old sneak radius passive.

Except for that tho, I don't mind the racials that much.

pink_panther · October 2020

No

No because knowing ZoS they can't balance it properly and would result in forcing end game players to change to the new strongest race for mag or stam.

Ragnaroek93 · October 2020

Yes

A complete rework isn't needed imo but some fine tuning with every major patch would be nice.

Skjaldbjorn · October 2020

Yes

JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Most races are pretty good now. The ones I'd like to tweak is Khajiit which is bad compared to other DPS races, and Orc which overperforms.

Grossly. Removing their free HP would go a long way.

What would they replace the health with? Magicka? No reason to, on an orc... more stamina regen? Thats worse then the health. Resistances? Same as health

orc overperforms on dps base... not health base. Orcs are overbuffed. They needs to have one of his two damage stats reduced...

Their health is not something that would even go a short way... cus they would have to replace it with something... Something that would be much more... vile

Orc easily have the combination that culminates in the 3 best racial passives in the game. Absolutely none of them are bad. 2k Stam, 1k HP, 258 wep damage. Remove one, replace it with some tacky garbage like every other race gets stuck with. Problem solved.

Health opening Necros and Sorcs up to Lavafoot just busts everything sustain-related. It makes them, effectively, the best damage and sustain race, as Stamcros and Sorcs can roll Orcs and actually lose less stamina moving to Lavafoot over gold food. It's nonsense.

Noldornir · October 2020

Yes

I think they should just get rid of race passives as a whole and let ppl bind bonus as we do with mundus.

Imho races should only be aestethic because u can try and balance as much as you want but there will always be a "best" race for a said role and and races "unsuitable" for a job.

as now it is even unrealistic that:

90% mages are born Altmers while the Altmer Army has no warriors/tanks but only mages. (TBH there are little tanks in the whole AD)

90% warriors comes from Orcs that can only bash things, none of them use magic

90% healers are Bretons

90% tanks are Nords

All other races lies in-between and you only see them from older builds or ppl that CBA using race change token.

If we look on the alliance POV is even worse:

AD has literally no tanks, the best magicka user and niche stamDDs
EP has best tanks, niche healers and magDDs
DC has an army of healers and stamDDs, niche tanks and magdds

If we'd really want to "balance" all 3 alliances should have 1 class to cover a role better an just "as good" as the other alliances but this looks very hard to balance imho so (in the end some bonus will be preferable over another, situation could get better than it is now but not ideal) I'd just remove racial passives and put them back to pick as mundus are

Ryuvain · October 2020

Yes

Never really liked racial passives. A meta race should never be a thing. I pick only khajiit and argonian because I actually like them and their looks, not stats.

I'm staying faithful.

JohnOfMarkarth · October 2020

Yes

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Most races are pretty good now. The ones I'd like to tweak is Khajiit which is bad compared to other DPS races, and Orc which overperforms.

Grossly. Removing their free HP would go a long way.

What would they replace the health with? Magicka? No reason to, on an orc... more stamina regen? Thats worse then the health. Resistances? Same as health

orc overperforms on dps base... not health base. Orcs are overbuffed. They needs to have one of his two damage stats reduced...

Their health is not something that would even go a short way... cus they would have to replace it with something... Something that would be much more... vile

Orc easily have the combination that culminates in the 3 best racial passives in the game. Absolutely none of them are bad. 2k Stam, 1k HP, 258 wep damage. Remove one, replace it with some tacky garbage like every other race gets stuck with. Problem solved.

Health opening Necros and Sorcs up to Lavafoot just busts everything sustain-related. It makes them, effectively, the best damage and sustain race, as Stamcros and Sorcs can roll Orcs and actually lose less stamina moving to Lavafoot over gold food. It's nonsense.

easy peasy fix for stam rebalance then: Give em 1k stam, 1k health+some weird gimmick *** (instead of 2k stam + gimmick). They still use lava foot ... But now they loose stamina over using it.
They dont get the overperforming stamina buff. Get their gimmick instead of keeping the mass-stam. + gimmick

karekiz · October 2020

Yes

Only a few need a touch.

Ascarl · October 2020

Yes

katorga wrote: »

Races don't need to be rebalanced:

1. changes made based on the current meta, won't apply when the meta changes next patch.
2. In a proc meta races doesn't really matter.
3. Rebalancing on produces new BiS races, winners and losers, and the cycle just repeats.

Even if by the tiniest degree, something is always BiS. The only way to achieve balance is remove racial passives altogether.

Your points sound nice but are inaccurate IMHO:
Orc has been meta-meta for all cycles since the race "rebalance" for pretty much everything stamina related.

Skjaldbjorn · October 2020

Yes

JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »

easy peasy fix for stam rebalance then: Give em 1k stam, 1k health+some weird gimmick *** (instead of 2k stam + gimmick). They still use lava foot ... But now they loose stamina over using it.
They dont get the overperforming stamina buff. Get their gimmick instead of keeping the mass-stam. + gimmick

I would be much more comfortable with 1.5k Stam, 500 HP and 258 wep damage. Dark Elves literally have nearly identical stats, but are infinitely weaker due to the missing HP passive. It's fine if they get bonus HP, but 1000 is simply too much.

Danksta · October 2020

No

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

Didn't Zos say a while back that they were gonna rebalance stam soon since pretty much all endgame stam dps are orcs?

Makes sense. Gotta keep people buying those race change tokens.

Araneae6537 · October 2020

No

Noldornir wrote: »

I think they should just get rid of race passives as a whole and let ppl bind bonus as we do with mundus.

Imho races should only be aestethic because u can try and balance as much as you want but there will always be a "best" race for a said role and and races "unsuitable" for a job.

as now it is even unrealistic that:

90% mages are born Altmers while the Altmer Army has no warriors/tanks but only mages. (TBH there are little tanks in the whole AD)

90% warriors comes from Orcs that can only bash things, none of them use magic

90% healers are Bretons

90% tanks are Nords

All other races lies in-between and you only see them from older builds or ppl that CBA using race change token.

If we look on the alliance POV is even worse:

AD has literally no tanks, the best magicka user and niche stamDDs
EP has best tanks, niche healers and magDDs
DC has an army of healers and stamDDs, niche tanks and magdds

If we'd really want to "balance" all 3 alliances should have 1 class to cover a role better an just "as good" as the other alliances but this looks very hard to balance imho so (in the end some bonus will be preferable over another, situation could get better than it is now but not ideal) I'd just remove racial passives and put them back to pick as mundus are

I disagree, at least as regards PvE. I’ve seen tanks and healers of every race, including among players who regularly do harder content. I’ve run with a group who all play Khajiit. I wouldn’t want race choice to only be aesthetic. As I’ve said before, it only bothers me when something doesn’t fit the lore.

I’d rather see CP be about further defining your character vision, maybe being able to gain abilities / passives not normally granted by your race or class BUT these should be actual choices, not that you can have everything, but that’s another topic I suppose...

JohnOfMarkarth · October 2020

Yes

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »

easy peasy fix for stam rebalance then: Give em 1k stam, 1k health+some weird gimmick *** (instead of 2k stam + gimmick). They still use lava foot ... But now they loose stamina over using it.
They dont get the overperforming stamina buff. Get their gimmick instead of keeping the mass-stam. + gimmick

I would be much more comfortable with 1.5k Stam, 500 HP and 258 wep damage. Dark Elves literally have nearly identical stats, but are infinitely weaker due to the missing HP passive. It's fine if they get bonus HP, but 1000 is simply too much.

i'd address them too.

Its virtually nonsensical that most races are fully monothematic while some are fully both-capa---

well tbh id address every race. And lower the bonuses of all races, so much, that the differences are merely topical and arent truly min-max defining. Actually i would remove max stats from races altogether and just give races two gimmicks and some weird active ability. Gimmicks that propose gameplay paths rather than maximums. Like 10%heavy attack damage increases or the crit damage increase on 'jiits but halved... etc. Nothing that would make races predetermined for stam/mag but rather would be a little. LITTLE nudge towards a certain playstyle that befits the race. Without being necessary

Chelo · October 2020

No

They were already rebalanced... How many rebalance do we need? 😬

JobooAGS · October 2020

Yes

Chelo wrote: »

They were already rebalanced... How many rebalance do we need? 😬

With some of the regen changes next patch, some balancing may be in order

Arciris · October 2020

I'm not voting because, although I believe races need to be reviewed, I don't want a team who can only look at numbers through a microscope to do it.

Fantasy wise this game has become a total aberration to the genre in general and it's own lore in particular (not limited to racials)
While Balance wise, we're still at the same point (some races are OP, others are not even worth to look at)
As for the floor/ceiling thing, each time they mention it, all I see is the ceiling getting higher

So, at this point, I am grateful when they decide to do nothing

TimeDazzler · October 2020

Yes

Orc is a bit overtuned. Redguard and Khajit are useless. Imperial is still never chosen. High elf has no competition in terms of magicka DPS.