How do so many idiots get to rule in Tamriel?
-
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭and he is an awful AWFUL husband to boot (his spinelessness rears its ugly head there as well). I stayed around listening to him talking to his queen after finishing the story and just... UGH. UGH.
Well done the writers for making supporting characters difficult.
Literature is packed with people like this - and worse
If I were to summarise the plot of Shakespeare's "Titus Andronicus " for example I would probably get my account banned!
It makes for much more interesting stories.
Yes, flawed characters make for good storytelling.
However, it sometimes makes for less than satisfying roleplaying when my grouchy, arrogant Vestige feels smarter, more competent (or at least more genre savvy), and more well-adjusted than most of the NPCs in charge.
Or, this is why most literature doesn't feature omnicompetent self-insert Mary Sues player characters.5 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Eh, my vestige is grouchy, yes. But not arrogant. Still, she has zero use for any of the faction rulers. OMG - bunch of wankers.... (thank you my UK friend for that absolutely expressive word).0 -
d0e1ow✭✭✭✭and he is an awful AWFUL husband to boot (his spinelessness rears its ugly head there as well). I stayed around listening to him talking to his queen after finishing the story and just... UGH. UGH.
Well done the writers for making supporting characters difficult.
Literature is packed with people like this - and worse
If I were to summarise the plot of Shakespeare's "Titus Andronicus " for example I would probably get my account banned!
It makes for much more interesting stories.
He's not difficult though. lol His story is over. He has no development or growth, just repeating the same awful lines in his castle to his queen forever and ever and ever until the servers go offline. It's one thing to write flawed characters who go on a journey to face those flaws, or at least increase other qualities that outshine those flaws, but it's another to just have a static character that's unlikable.
One of the last times I dealt with him at all was at the war council quest which did not leave the most glowing impression on me. But that was it. Over. Done. I spent a month of my life running all over being this guy's errand girl and he totally lets me down when he meets the beautiful Queen of the Elves.
Was an easy choice to switch sides.Edited by d0e1ow on September 28, 2020 12:56AM"Her mystery was as essential to her as savagery was to Boethiah or treachery was to Molag Bal. To understand Nocturnal is to negate her, to pull back the curtains cloaking her realm of darkness." - Sigillah Parate "Invocation of Azura"2 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »How do so many idiots get to rule in Tamriel?
As in real life, right of succession, its not always the most capable who come to rule, and usually just a matter of who your parents are, or who you know, etc. In those cases where previously competent military or political individuals have taken/assumed power, there's also the Peter Principle.
Edited by mairwen85 on September 28, 2020 8:33AM4 -
Grianasteri✭✭✭✭✭
✭Err, in exactly the same way so many idiots get to rule on planet Earth right now.
We are literally "led" by the least among us.2 -
Ectheliontnacil✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WhyMustItBe wrote: »For every idiot leader there are legions of weak superstitious submissive types making excuses for them and fawning all over their totally unjustified self confidence, and an equally large mass of people just as idiotic as the leader to do enforcement whenever the sheep get uppity.
Basically, Tamriel is still the dark ages. Shame the Dwemer blasted off into space instead of helping fix things.
Cowards.
By "the dark ages" do you mean 2020?5 -
Deter1UK✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »However, it sometimes makes for less than satisfying roleplaying when my grouchy, arrogant Vestige feels smarter, more competent (or at least more genre savvy), and more well-adjusted than most of the NPCs in charge.
Much the way I feel watching the News...
5 -
Icaruzs✭✭✭I'm a DC player, and only played the DC questline.
The litle that i saw, the skald king is stupid, emeric is proud and his ego make him blind. But the high elf queen seems pretty progressive and smart can someone confirm or explain if she's stupid too?Edited by Icaruzs on September 28, 2020 5:18PM1 -
Toanis✭✭✭✭✭Ayrenn's flaw is basically the main theme of the AD storyline. She's too progressive for a society that holds tradition in such high regard, alienates many of her own people, and relies on her few true friends, foremost Razum-dar, to watch her back. In many ways her empire is even more instable than the EP, because it's mainly held together by one charismatic person and will instantly pop once she's gone.5 -
luen79rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭The only good one, aside from Emeric of course, was King Ranser. Sadly he was murdered.PC/DC/NAserver
V16 sorc - V16 temp - V16 dk - V1 nb - V1 temp - V1 dk1 -
Starlight_Whisper✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »and he is an awful AWFUL husband to boot (his spinelessness rears its ugly head there as well). I stayed around listening to him talking to his queen after finishing the story and just... UGH. UGH.
Well done the writers for making supporting characters difficult.
Literature is packed with people like this - and worse
If I were to summarise the plot of Shakespeare's "Titus Andronicus " for example I would probably get my account banned!
It makes for much more interesting stories.
Yes, flawed characters make for good storytelling.
However, it sometimes makes for less than satisfying roleplaying when my grouchy, arrogant Vestige feels smarter, more competent (or at least more genre savvy), and more well-adjusted than most of the NPCs in charge.
Or, this is why most literature doesn't feature omnicompetent self-insert Mary Sues player characters.
Aren't we all flawed though in some way?0 -
Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ayrenn's flaw is basically the main theme of the AD storyline. She's too progressive for a society that holds tradition in such high regard, alienates many of her own people, and relies on her few true friends, foremost Razum-dar, to watch her back. In many ways her empire is even more instable than the EP, because it's mainly held together by one charismatic person and will instantly pop once she's gone.
High Elves can live thousands of years. So "once she is gone" may be a few eras later. We know from other TES games that it is not the case with personally Ayrenn, but relying on a charismatic ruler for elves is not something wrong.The Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.1 -
ZaroktheImmortal✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oh yeah, the whole Redguard thing of 'if any of our people kill the undead that necromancers are raising they'll get banished. But oh no they need to save us from the undead and necromancers'. It's just bloody stupid.3 -
ZaroktheImmortal✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ayrenn's flaw is basically the main theme of the AD storyline. She's too progressive for a society that holds tradition in such high regard, alienates many of her own people, and relies on her few true friends, foremost Razum-dar, to watch her back. In many ways her empire is even more instable than the EP, because it's mainly held together by one charismatic person and will instantly pop once she's gone.
She also has the flaw of being convinced that only she has the right to rule and rulers who are overly convinced that they have to rule usually it doesn't end well. At least Jorunn and Emeric had their doubts and Jorunn a only wanted to rule over his own people and not proclaim himself as the ruler of Tamriel.2 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ayrenn's flaw is basically the main theme of the AD storyline. She's too progressive for a society that holds tradition in such high regard, alienates many of her own people, and relies on her few true friends, foremost Razum-dar, to watch her back. In many ways her empire is even more instable than the EP, because it's mainly held together by one charismatic person and will instantly pop once she's gone.
High Elves can live thousands of years. So "once she is gone" may be a few eras later. We know from other TES games that it is not the case with personally Ayrenn, but relying on a charismatic ruler for elves is not something wrong.
More like 2-300 years, the thousand year old elves are quite rare and are usually very powerful mages that would either have no interest in the throne or who rules what anyway as long as they can do what they already are doing and would rather focus on other things or power hungry individuals (mages, again) such as Mannimarco who are much more noticeable and well known.
Edit
Keep in mind the AD that Talos fought was the 2nd AD. Ayreen’s AD was the 1st one.Edited by JobooAGS on September 29, 2020 12:35PM0 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭
To be fair that is mainly a Crown superstition. The Forebears would rather be rid of that policy, but it does involve half the nation...ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »Oh yeah, the whole Redguard thing of 'if any of our people kill the undead that necromancers are raising they'll get banished. But oh no they need to save us from the undead and necromancers'. It's just bloody stupid.
Even so the Gods in TES aren’t people you want to *** off.
This is one of the reasons why the Redguards are in a long lasting civil war (which lasted from the 1st era until practically until the time period between the end of the Great War and the 2nd treaty of Stros M’kai.)
0 -
Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ayrenn's flaw is basically the main theme of the AD storyline. She's too progressive for a society that holds tradition in such high regard, alienates many of her own people, and relies on her few true friends, foremost Razum-dar, to watch her back. In many ways her empire is even more instable than the EP, because it's mainly held together by one charismatic person and will instantly pop once she's gone.
High Elves can live thousands of years. So "once she is gone" may be a few eras later. We know from other TES games that it is not the case with personally Ayrenn, but relying on a charismatic ruler for elves is not something wrong.
More like 2-300 years, the thousand year old elves are quite rare and are usually very powerful mages that would either have no interest in the throne or who rules what anyway as long as they can do what they already are doing and would rather focus on other things or power hungry individuals (mages, again) such as Mannimarco who are much more noticeable and well known.
Edit
Keep in mind the AD that Talos fought was the 2nd AD. Ayreen’s AD was the 1st one.
Gelebor is not even a mage, just a paladin. Brandyl is a simple dunmer merchant of the telvanni blood, rather young in his 200 years. Barenziah is not among the most powerful mages either. Those who insist that elves live just 200 years are simply trying to retcon everything known before. Well, a lot of persons from different games must be eradicated to fulfill this retcon.
Doesn't really matter how many years Ayrenn lived looking from the 4th era. What matters is how many years she can live looking from the start of her reign.The Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.1 -
Toanis✭✭✭✭✭High Elves can live thousands of years. So "once she is gone" may be a few eras later. We know from other TES games that it is not the case with personally Ayrenn, but relying on a charismatic ruler for elves is not something wrong.
An uncompromisingly progressive leader in a very conservative society needs that charisma to get at least the support of half the population, but the other half won't suffer that for thousands of years.
While she plays great stateswoman with the Khajiit and Bosmer rulers, her secret police keeps an eye on her own people.
Raz won't live for thousands of years, and without him Ayrenn will be quickly removed from the High Elven throne, and the Bosmer and Khajiit will walk away. Where the EP will end in an explosion of bloodshed, the AD will simply fizzle out.0 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ayrenn's flaw is basically the main theme of the AD storyline. She's too progressive for a society that holds tradition in such high regard, alienates many of her own people, and relies on her few true friends, foremost Razum-dar, to watch her back. In many ways her empire is even more instable than the EP, because it's mainly held together by one charismatic person and will instantly pop once she's gone.
High Elves can live thousands of years. So "once she is gone" may be a few eras later. We know from other TES games that it is not the case with personally Ayrenn, but relying on a charismatic ruler for elves is not something wrong.
More like 2-300 years, the thousand year old elves are quite rare and are usually very powerful mages that would either have no interest in the throne or who rules what anyway as long as they can do what they already are doing and would rather focus on other things or power hungry individuals (mages, again) such as Mannimarco who are much more noticeable and well known.
Edit
Keep in mind the AD that Talos fought was the 2nd AD. Ayreen’s AD was the 1st one.
Gelebor is not even a mage, just a paladin. Brandyl is a simple dunmer merchant of the telvanni blood, rather young in his 200 years. Barenziah is not among the most powerful mages either. Those who insist that elves live just 200 years are simply trying to retcon everything known before. Well, a lot of persons from different games must be eradicated to fulfill this retcon.
Doesn't really matter how many years Ayrenn lived looking from the 4th era. What matters is how many years she can live looking from the start of her reign.
Indeed, mer can live from a few hundred to several thousand years (more commonly 150-200), and there are various documented cases of the longest lived as mages, but not all. Its usually due to war, strife, disease, or other unnatural cause that leads to Altmer death rather than simply outliving their life span. That said in 3E 432, and the 3rd edition pocket guide to the empire there are a great many High Elves who witnessed the conquest of Summerset still alive which would make them 400-500 years old by the time of account.0 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ayrenn's flaw is basically the main theme of the AD storyline. She's too progressive for a society that holds tradition in such high regard, alienates many of her own people, and relies on her few true friends, foremost Razum-dar, to watch her back. In many ways her empire is even more instable than the EP, because it's mainly held together by one charismatic person and will instantly pop once she's gone.
High Elves can live thousands of years. So "once she is gone" may be a few eras later. We know from other TES games that it is not the case with personally Ayrenn, but relying on a charismatic ruler for elves is not something wrong.
More like 2-300 years, the thousand year old elves are quite rare and are usually very powerful mages that would either have no interest in the throne or who rules what anyway as long as they can do what they already are doing and would rather focus on other things or power hungry individuals (mages, again) such as Mannimarco who are much more noticeable and well known.
Edit
Keep in mind the AD that Talos fought was the 2nd AD. Ayreen’s AD was the 1st one.
Gelebor is not even a mage, just a paladin. Brandyl is a simple dunmer merchant of the telvanni blood, rather young in his 200 years. Barenziah is not among the most powerful mages either. Those who insist that elves live just 200 years are simply trying to retcon everything known before. Well, a lot of persons from different games must be eradicated to fulfill this retcon.
Doesn't really matter how many years Ayrenn lived looking from the 4th era. What matters is how many years she can live looking from the start of her reign.
There is a reason why I said “usually” there are exceptions to every rule. Gelabor was blessed by Auriel. Not sure of your source on Brandyl though. And wasn’t Barenziah a thief favored by Nocturnal?
0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Starlight_Whisper wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »and he is an awful AWFUL husband to boot (his spinelessness rears its ugly head there as well). I stayed around listening to him talking to his queen after finishing the story and just... UGH. UGH.
Well done the writers for making supporting characters difficult.
Literature is packed with people like this - and worse
If I were to summarise the plot of Shakespeare's "Titus Andronicus " for example I would probably get my account banned!
It makes for much more interesting stories.
Yes, flawed characters make for good storytelling.
However, it sometimes makes for less than satisfying roleplaying when my grouchy, arrogant Vestige feels smarter, more competent (or at least more genre savvy), and more well-adjusted than most of the NPCs in charge.
Or, this is why most literature doesn't feature omnicompetent self-insert Mary Sues player characters.
Aren't we all flawed though in some way?
Sure! But again, this kind of hits on a difference between literature and types of role-playing. My Vestige is flawed, but none of her flaws will ever have a tangible impact on the game. Conversely, NPC flaws do have an impact, but I can only react as the storyline allows.
In literature, everyone's flawed and the author gets to use those flaws to create interesting characters and story. Its a author-created railroad and everyone's onboard.
In a D&D game, the flaws of a player character are roleplayed with a Gamemaster and other players, who can react appropriately. Similarly, players can react in non-railroaded ways to NPCs and have an impact on the story. We can push back if an NPC's flaws adversely effect us.
In video games like ESO, the story is basically set in stone...except for the roleplaying reactions of the player character. So it's true to say that flawed characters make for interesting storytelling. On the other hand, it also leads to situations where my Vestige is standing at the foot of the Doomcrag going "This is a trap. You know this is a trap, right? Why does no one else realize this is a trap?" Or in the case of the frustrations detailed in this thread: "Ruler, can't you see that you are acting like an idiot? Things would probably work out better if you didn't *** off your brother/ignore your wife etc."
Practically, I tend to roleplay around this lack of impact with the idea that my Vestige is so darned arrogant about how she points out the flaws in people's plans that the people around her just ignore her, or in the case of Tanval Indoril summoning Balreth, flat out say "I'm the General, not you, go clean up the rest of Stonefalls before I see your face again!"
But even that is using a character flaw to explain why I'm railroaded into putting up with obviously bad NPC choices. Because the alternative is to assume that my Vestige have the same flaws assigned to everyone by the Devs: short-sighted enough to not figure out what's going on before revealed by the plot, too timid to tell kings, queens, and generals to knock off the shenanigans, and ultimately, too humble to say "Look, I beat Molag Bal, the Triad, and a nearly god-like dragon. Would you like to surrender now or shall I add you to the list?"0 -
Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
✭
AD was formed as a response to forming of DC and EP. AD is a defensive alliance first and foremost.Bosmer and Khajiit are natural allies to the altmer (the 4th era proves it) and they will remain in the AD while there is danger from DC or EP.High Elves can live thousands of years. So "once she is gone" may be a few eras later. We know from other TES games that it is not the case with personally Ayrenn, but relying on a charismatic ruler for elves is not something wrong.
An uncompromisingly progressive leader in a very conservative society needs that charisma to get at least the support of half the population, but the other half won't suffer that for thousands of years.
While she plays great stateswoman with the Khajiit and Bosmer rulers, her secret police keeps an eye on her own people.
Raz won't live for thousands of years, and without him Ayrenn will be quickly removed from the High Elven throne, and the Bosmer and Khajiit will walk away. Where the EP will end in an explosion of bloodshed, the AD will simply fizzle out.
Most of the unloyal canonreeves are already removed. The remaining ones support Ayrenn. The proxy queen supports Ayrenn. Razum Dar is not needed years later. He and his troops (bosmer and altmer among them, by the way) are in need in the first years, when some higher ups have their own ideas about future of the Isles.
Usually people who we know of are either much older than 200-300 years or simply died from unnatural causes (unless you count murder as natural). Yes, there are a lot of other characters, named or unnamed in different games, about which we simply don't know how old they are. It doesn't mean we should assume they do not live long and will not live long.Ayrenn's flaw is basically the main theme of the AD storyline. She's too progressive for a society that holds tradition in such high regard, alienates many of her own people, and relies on her few true friends, foremost Razum-dar, to watch her back. In many ways her empire is even more instable than the EP, because it's mainly held together by one charismatic person and will instantly pop once she's gone.
High Elves can live thousands of years. So "once she is gone" may be a few eras later. We know from other TES games that it is not the case with personally Ayrenn, but relying on a charismatic ruler for elves is not something wrong.
More like 2-300 years, the thousand year old elves are quite rare and are usually very powerful mages that would either have no interest in the throne or who rules what anyway as long as they can do what they already are doing and would rather focus on other things or power hungry individuals (mages, again) such as Mannimarco who are much more noticeable and well known.
Edit
Keep in mind the AD that Talos fought was the 2nd AD. Ayreen’s AD was the 1st one.
Gelebor is not even a mage, just a paladin. Brandyl is a simple dunmer merchant of the telvanni blood, rather young in his 200 years. Barenziah is not among the most powerful mages either. Those who insist that elves live just 200 years are simply trying to retcon everything known before. Well, a lot of persons from different games must be eradicated to fulfill this retcon.
Doesn't really matter how many years Ayrenn lived looking from the 4th era. What matters is how many years she can live looking from the start of her reign.
There is a reason why I said “usually” there are exceptions to every rule. Gelabor was blessed by Auriel. Not sure of your source on Brandyl though. And wasn’t Barenziah a thief favored by Nocturnal?
There are a lot of priests of the aedra. They are not so old. Brandyl Telvanni is from Skyrim. Barenziah's lover was favored by Nocturnal, and that was when Barenziah was already about 400 years old.The Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.0 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭
AD was formed as a response to forming of DC and EP. AD is a defensive alliance first and foremost.Bosmer and Khajiit are natural allies to the altmer (the 4th era proves it) and they will remain in the AD while there is danger from DC or EP.High Elves can live thousands of years. So "once she is gone" may be a few eras later. We know from other TES games that it is not the case with personally Ayrenn, but relying on a charismatic ruler for elves is not something wrong.
An uncompromisingly progressive leader in a very conservative society needs that charisma to get at least the support of half the population, but the other half won't suffer that for thousands of years.
While she plays great stateswoman with the Khajiit and Bosmer rulers, her secret police keeps an eye on her own people.
Raz won't live for thousands of years, and without him Ayrenn will be quickly removed from the High Elven throne, and the Bosmer and Khajiit will walk away. Where the EP will end in an explosion of bloodshed, the AD will simply fizzle out.
Most of the unloyal canonreeves are already removed. The remaining ones support Ayrenn. The proxy queen supports Ayrenn. Razum Dar is not needed years later. He and his troops (bosmer and altmer among them, by the way) are in need in the first years, when some higher ups have their own ideas about future of the Isles.
Usually people who we know of are either much older than 200-300 years or simply died from unnatural causes (unless you count murder as natural). Yes, there are a lot of other characters, named or unnamed in different games, about which we simply don't know how old they are. It doesn't mean we should assume they do not live long and will not live long.Ayrenn's flaw is basically the main theme of the AD storyline. She's too progressive for a society that holds tradition in such high regard, alienates many of her own people, and relies on her few true friends, foremost Razum-dar, to watch her back. In many ways her empire is even more instable than the EP, because it's mainly held together by one charismatic person and will instantly pop once she's gone.
High Elves can live thousands of years. So "once she is gone" may be a few eras later. We know from other TES games that it is not the case with personally Ayrenn, but relying on a charismatic ruler for elves is not something wrong.
More like 2-300 years, the thousand year old elves are quite rare and are usually very powerful mages that would either have no interest in the throne or who rules what anyway as long as they can do what they already are doing and would rather focus on other things or power hungry individuals (mages, again) such as Mannimarco who are much more noticeable and well known.
Edit
Keep in mind the AD that Talos fought was the 2nd AD. Ayreen’s AD was the 1st one.
Gelebor is not even a mage, just a paladin. Brandyl is a simple dunmer merchant of the telvanni blood, rather young in his 200 years. Barenziah is not among the most powerful mages either. Those who insist that elves live just 200 years are simply trying to retcon everything known before. Well, a lot of persons from different games must be eradicated to fulfill this retcon.
Doesn't really matter how many years Ayrenn lived looking from the 4th era. What matters is how many years she can live looking from the start of her reign.
There is a reason why I said “usually” there are exceptions to every rule. Gelabor was blessed by Auriel. Not sure of your source on Brandyl though. And wasn’t Barenziah a thief favored by Nocturnal?
There are a lot of priests of the aedra. They are not so old. Brandyl Telvanni is from Skyrim. Barenziah's lover was favored by Nocturnal, and that was when Barenziah was already about 400 years old.
Priests can be of any age. It’s it like being old is a requirement to be a priest.
Gelabor is one of the last of his kind (unless you count the Betrayed, then he’s far from the last, lol). You’d think that Auriel/Akatosh would try to help. Then again he really can just be an exception and just lived long.
200 years (well 194-195 in his case) is still in the lifetime of the average Dunmer (I said 2-300 years) even so he doesn’t look young either.
The 4th era AD (3rd AD) was made in force. In fact the Altmer did some “ethnic cleansing” to the Bosmer including Malborn’s family. Which makes the Bosmer not too happy about being in the AD but were forced to being in it. As for the Khajiit, Elsweyr was split in 2 by the Dominion I believe after “saving” the moons. Not sure how the Khajiit view the Altmer at this point. saviors?
Edit:
The Altmer are not the ones who are “misguided” in regards to the KhajiitEdited by JobooAGS on September 29, 2020 1:43PM1 -
Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
✭
There are no other priests of such an old age. If a natural lifespan is 200-300 years, then it is not much different from 50-100 when prolonging to several thousands.
AD was formed as a response to forming of DC and EP. AD is a defensive alliance first and foremost.Bosmer and Khajiit are natural allies to the altmer (the 4th era proves it) and they will remain in the AD while there is danger from DC or EP.High Elves can live thousands of years. So "once she is gone" may be a few eras later. We know from other TES games that it is not the case with personally Ayrenn, but relying on a charismatic ruler for elves is not something wrong.
An uncompromisingly progressive leader in a very conservative society needs that charisma to get at least the support of half the population, but the other half won't suffer that for thousands of years.
While she plays great stateswoman with the Khajiit and Bosmer rulers, her secret police keeps an eye on her own people.
Raz won't live for thousands of years, and without him Ayrenn will be quickly removed from the High Elven throne, and the Bosmer and Khajiit will walk away. Where the EP will end in an explosion of bloodshed, the AD will simply fizzle out.
Most of the unloyal canonreeves are already removed. The remaining ones support Ayrenn. The proxy queen supports Ayrenn. Razum Dar is not needed years later. He and his troops (bosmer and altmer among them, by the way) are in need in the first years, when some higher ups have their own ideas about future of the Isles.
Usually people who we know of are either much older than 200-300 years or simply died from unnatural causes (unless you count murder as natural). Yes, there are a lot of other characters, named or unnamed in different games, about which we simply don't know how old they are. It doesn't mean we should assume they do not live long and will not live long.Ayrenn's flaw is basically the main theme of the AD storyline. She's too progressive for a society that holds tradition in such high regard, alienates many of her own people, and relies on her few true friends, foremost Razum-dar, to watch her back. In many ways her empire is even more instable than the EP, because it's mainly held together by one charismatic person and will instantly pop once she's gone.
High Elves can live thousands of years. So "once she is gone" may be a few eras later. We know from other TES games that it is not the case with personally Ayrenn, but relying on a charismatic ruler for elves is not something wrong.
More like 2-300 years, the thousand year old elves are quite rare and are usually very powerful mages that would either have no interest in the throne or who rules what anyway as long as they can do what they already are doing and would rather focus on other things or power hungry individuals (mages, again) such as Mannimarco who are much more noticeable and well known.
Edit
Keep in mind the AD that Talos fought was the 2nd AD. Ayreen’s AD was the 1st one.
Gelebor is not even a mage, just a paladin. Brandyl is a simple dunmer merchant of the telvanni blood, rather young in his 200 years. Barenziah is not among the most powerful mages either. Those who insist that elves live just 200 years are simply trying to retcon everything known before. Well, a lot of persons from different games must be eradicated to fulfill this retcon.
Doesn't really matter how many years Ayrenn lived looking from the 4th era. What matters is how many years she can live looking from the start of her reign.
There is a reason why I said “usually” there are exceptions to every rule. Gelabor was blessed by Auriel. Not sure of your source on Brandyl though. And wasn’t Barenziah a thief favored by Nocturnal?
There are a lot of priests of the aedra. They are not so old. Brandyl Telvanni is from Skyrim. Barenziah's lover was favored by Nocturnal, and that was when Barenziah was already about 400 years old.
Priests can be of any age. It’s it like being old is a requirement to be a priest.
Gelabor is one of the last of his kind (unless you count the Betrayed, then he’s far from the last, lol). You’d think that Auriel/Akatosh would try to help. Then again he really can just be an exception and just lived long.
200 years (well 194-195 in his case) is still in the lifetime of the average Dunmer (I said 2-300 years) even so he doesn’t look young either.
The 4th era AD (3rd AD) was made in force. In fact the Altmer did some “ethnic cleansing” to the Bosmer including Malborn’s family. Which makes the Bosmer not too happy about being in the AD but were forced to being in it. As for the Khajiit, Elsweyr was split in 2 by the Dominion I believe after “saving” the moons. Not sure how the Khajiit view the Altmer at this point. saviors?
Edit:
The Altmer are not the ones who are “misguided” in regards to the Khajiit
Gelebor is the last known of his kind. Actually, it is rather meaningless to keep the last one, it is even more meaningless to keep the last one male given the racial phylogeny. Keeping the last couple can help, but I doubt that Gelebor will learn to reproduce by dividing. It is also not likely that he was given extended life to deal with his brother, as he is not dead at the end (compare to Pelinal, who was removed by the aedra once his destiny was fulfilled).
All dunmer look bad in Skyrim, but Brandyl is rather young in the editor.
I am not sure how altmer can do an ethnic cleansing of the bosmer while killing some bosmer and keeping other bosmer. It is likely a political cleansing just as in the 2nd era (Camoran vs Blacksap Rebellion). As for Khajiit, Anequina and Pellitine are two ancient kingdoms. Thalmor just restored what was before, it is not necessary a bad thing.The Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.2 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm a DC player, and only played the DC questline.
The litle that i saw, the skald king is stupid, emeric is proud and his ego make him blind. But the high elf queen seems pretty progressive and smart can someone confirm or explain if she's stupid too?
Joruun isn't exactly stupid; being reluctant to be king, his major error was being too easy on his brother who thought he should be king instead of Joruun. His brother lost the crown and decided to have a little rebellion to take it back.
How good a king could he be if he took his kingdom to war [with the usual deaths, destruction of property/collateral damage] because his daughter was courted by Emeric but not chosen as his bride? After refusing to negotiate for peace several times, he came up with a plan to turn himself and his army into undead so they could continue to fight forever. His general killed him when he realized Ranser had gone insane. The Vestige and a ghost gather his bones again to call him back, and kill him to end the curse on Traitor's Tor.luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »The only good one, aside from Emeric of course, was King Ranser. Sadly he was murdered.
1 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭
There are no other priests of such an old age. If a natural lifespan is 200-300 years, then it is not much different from 50-100 when prolonging to several thousands.
AD was formed as a response to forming of DC and EP. AD is a defensive alliance first and foremost.Bosmer and Khajiit are natural allies to the altmer (the 4th era proves it) and they will remain in the AD while there is danger from DC or EP.High Elves can live thousands of years. So "once she is gone" may be a few eras later. We know from other TES games that it is not the case with personally Ayrenn, but relying on a charismatic ruler for elves is not something wrong.
An uncompromisingly progressive leader in a very conservative society needs that charisma to get at least the support of half the population, but the other half won't suffer that for thousands of years.
While she plays great stateswoman with the Khajiit and Bosmer rulers, her secret police keeps an eye on her own people.
Raz won't live for thousands of years, and without him Ayrenn will be quickly removed from the High Elven throne, and the Bosmer and Khajiit will walk away. Where the EP will end in an explosion of bloodshed, the AD will simply fizzle out.
Most of the unloyal canonreeves are already removed. The remaining ones support Ayrenn. The proxy queen supports Ayrenn. Razum Dar is not needed years later. He and his troops (bosmer and altmer among them, by the way) are in need in the first years, when some higher ups have their own ideas about future of the Isles.
Usually people who we know of are either much older than 200-300 years or simply died from unnatural causes (unless you count murder as natural). Yes, there are a lot of other characters, named or unnamed in different games, about which we simply don't know how old they are. It doesn't mean we should assume they do not live long and will not live long.Ayrenn's flaw is basically the main theme of the AD storyline. She's too progressive for a society that holds tradition in such high regard, alienates many of her own people, and relies on her few true friends, foremost Razum-dar, to watch her back. In many ways her empire is even more instable than the EP, because it's mainly held together by one charismatic person and will instantly pop once she's gone.
High Elves can live thousands of years. So "once she is gone" may be a few eras later. We know from other TES games that it is not the case with personally Ayrenn, but relying on a charismatic ruler for elves is not something wrong.
More like 2-300 years, the thousand year old elves are quite rare and are usually very powerful mages that would either have no interest in the throne or who rules what anyway as long as they can do what they already are doing and would rather focus on other things or power hungry individuals (mages, again) such as Mannimarco who are much more noticeable and well known.
Edit
Keep in mind the AD that Talos fought was the 2nd AD. Ayreen’s AD was the 1st one.
Gelebor is not even a mage, just a paladin. Brandyl is a simple dunmer merchant of the telvanni blood, rather young in his 200 years. Barenziah is not among the most powerful mages either. Those who insist that elves live just 200 years are simply trying to retcon everything known before. Well, a lot of persons from different games must be eradicated to fulfill this retcon.
Doesn't really matter how many years Ayrenn lived looking from the 4th era. What matters is how many years she can live looking from the start of her reign.
There is a reason why I said “usually” there are exceptions to every rule. Gelabor was blessed by Auriel. Not sure of your source on Brandyl though. And wasn’t Barenziah a thief favored by Nocturnal?
There are a lot of priests of the aedra. They are not so old. Brandyl Telvanni is from Skyrim. Barenziah's lover was favored by Nocturnal, and that was when Barenziah was already about 400 years old.
Priests can be of any age. It’s it like being old is a requirement to be a priest.
Gelabor is one of the last of his kind (unless you count the Betrayed, then he’s far from the last, lol). You’d think that Auriel/Akatosh would try to help. Then again he really can just be an exception and just lived long.
200 years (well 194-195 in his case) is still in the lifetime of the average Dunmer (I said 2-300 years) even so he doesn’t look young either.
The 4th era AD (3rd AD) was made in force. In fact the Altmer did some “ethnic cleansing” to the Bosmer including Malborn’s family. Which makes the Bosmer not too happy about being in the AD but were forced to being in it. As for the Khajiit, Elsweyr was split in 2 by the Dominion I believe after “saving” the moons. Not sure how the Khajiit view the Altmer at this point. saviors?
Edit:
The Altmer are not the ones who are “misguided” in regards to the Khajiit
Gelebor is the last known of his kind. Actually, it is rather meaningless to keep the last one, it is even more meaningless to keep the last one male given the racial phylogeny. Keeping the last couple can help, but I doubt that Gelebor will learn to reproduce by dividing. It is also not likely that he was given extended life to deal with his brother, as he is not dead at the end (compare to Pelinal, who was removed by the aedra once his destiny was fulfilled).
All dunmer look bad in Skyrim, but Brandyl is rather young in the editor.
I am not sure how altmer can do an ethnic cleansing of the bosmer while killing some bosmer and keeping other bosmer. It is likely a political cleansing just as in the 2nd era (Camoran vs Blacksap Rebellion). As for Khajiit, Anequina and Pellitine are two ancient kingdoms. Thalmor just restored what was before, it is not necessary a bad thing.
It could be that Gelabor hasn’t fulfilled his purpose yet which can be on the lines of civilizing the betrayed. As for why he’s the last one left, the betrayed murdered the other “normal” falmer with the help of his brother.
Brandyl looks middle aged to me, there are younger looking dunmer in game for example Tythis Ulen and many of the dunmer in windhelm.
As for the Bosmer, according to the Blades, the cleansing of Malborn’s family is one of many “cleansings” the Thalmor did on the Bosmer.
The Thalmor also did something similar to Altmer living as refugees in Sentinel, HammerfellEdited by JobooAGS on September 29, 2020 8:18PM0 -
Monte_Cristo✭✭✭✭✭
✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »How do so many idiots get to rule in Tamriel?
As in real life, right of succession, its not always the most capable who come to rule, and usually just a matter of who your parents are, or who you know, etc. In those cases where previously competent military or political individuals have taken/assumed power, there's also the Peter Principle.
To be fair to the 3 rulers, only one of them was meant to ascend to the throne anyway. Jorunn only got it cause his sister died young and without an heir, while Emeric got the crown because some plague wiped out a big chunk of the nobility, including the previous royal house.0 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Monte_Cristo wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »How do so many idiots get to rule in Tamriel?
As in real life, right of succession, its not always the most capable who come to rule, and usually just a matter of who your parents are, or who you know, etc. In those cases where previously competent military or political individuals have taken/assumed power, there's also the Peter Principle.
To be fair to the 3 rulers, only one of them was meant to ascend to the throne anyway. Jorunn only got it cause his sister died young and without an heir, while Emeric got the crown because some plague wiped out a big chunk of the nobility, including the previous royal house.
Both of those cases still follow right of succession, still hereditary government forming.
0
