PTS Update 28 - Feedback Thread for Combat & Classes

Firstmep · September 2020

ArtOfShred wrote: »

A few notes / suggestions for Nightblades:

Malevolent Offering has a spammy debuff: The un-removable DoT this applies on the player when cast doesn't stack but rather creates a new instance of a debuff. This can get rather spammy if you're casting it in succession. Most likely you'd never actually be doing it but it might be used a few times in order to get the tank up when they're low or something.

I think this would be better implemented as a stacking debuff when cast (although this would increase the self-damage it does in certain cases, like casting it right as the debuff was about to fade, it's relatively a minor penalty to have as a tradeoff for cleaner implementation IMO).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hSRbtsPE14

Surprise Attack & Minor Breach: With Minor Breach being buffed a decent amount (50% of the major value) I think it might be nice to attach this back onto Surprise Attack (and maybe drop the 5% unique pen buff that doesn't really fit in very well). There was an argument to be made that having Major Fracture on this ability was a bit overloaded/too much back in the day, but I think the balance pendulum has swung back the other way far enough that putting a bit more power back on this ability would be fine. Minor Breach gives a great opportunity to do so.

You mean 5% armor shred, stun and off balance isnt enough?

Also nightblades are getting minor breach levels of pen when attacking from flank.

Nightblades do not need more damage.

Suprise attack is fine as it is already.

Starlight_Whisper · September 2020

renne wrote: »

Anyone able to post what PotL looks like now since Minor Fracture is gone and Minor Breach, unlike Major Breach, doesn't say it applies to both physical and spell in the patch notes?

It applies both spell and physical debuff... but note that so does shield and sword now too.

Starlight_Whisper · September 2020

karthrag_inak wrote: »

So, will khajiit get some kind of recompense since the crit chance nerf affects them more than any other race?

As soon as bosmer gets promised fixes for sheath detection that makes sense on a thief lore wise.

Starlight_Whisper · September 2020

Tremorscale

LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160

(1 items) Adds 1096 Max Stamina
(2 items) When you taunt an enemy, you have a 50% chance to cause a duneripper to burst from the ground beneath them after 1 second, dealing 5850 Physical Damage to all enemies within 4 meters and have their Physical Resistance reduced by 2395 for 8 seconds. This effect can occur once every 8 seconds.

Shouldn't this include spell Resistance now with all the merging of things? It's literally the only exclusion now.

Tanks are forced to use back bar staff as shock elemental wall applies off balance super easy and now elemetal drain is well better too as it's a range debuff.

Jodynn · September 2020

PvE Trial perspective, magDK:

With all the sustain problems combat is annoying, and the reason why I can't build for sustain reasonably

- Different Sets : Less Damage
- Heavy attacks : take 3 seconds which is losing a lot of damage, and if you get interrupted you have to do it again.
- Sustain Food : Less Health thus less damage because I have to account for health
- Spell Symmetry: Takes a cool-down and just feels awful to have to use at least 10 times per most fights.
- Different class : Well I can't exactly do that with my main, and this is the class I enjoy and like the most

Suggestions

- Innate sustain
- Class sustain abilities/passives other than combustion, it's not enough even when building for it using charged staff
- Heavy attacks take less time but deal less damage based off of this
- Sustain Food isn't such a big difference
- Spell Symmetry give something over time rather than just half the health it costs
- Class change token

Other than that, it feels like a lot of passives and active abilities are wasted for my class.

Skjaldbjorn · September 2020

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

PvE Trial perspective, magDK:

With all the sustain problems combat is annoying, and the reason why I can't build for sustain reasonably

- Different Sets : Less Damage
- Heavy attacks : take 3 seconds which is losing a lot of damage, and if you get interrupted you have to do it again.
- Sustain Food : Less Health thus less damage because I have to account for health
- Spell Symmetry: Takes a cool-down and just feels awful to have to use at least 10 times per most fights.
- Different class : Well I can't exactly do that with my main, and this is the class I enjoy and like the most

Suggestions

- Innate sustain
- Class sustain abilities/passives other than combustion, it's not enough even when building for it using charged staff
- Heavy attacks take less time but deal less damage based off of this
- Sustain Food isn't such a big difference
- Spell Symmetry give something over time rather than just half the health it costs
- Class change token

Other than that, it feels like a lot of passives and active abilities are wasted for my class.

I think the over-arching problem that still needs to be addressed in the near future is racial imbalance. It's either extreme sustain or max damage and no sustain. That's terrible design, honestly. So for classes like DK to compete, they have to max damage, but struggle to sustain it. if they go with a sustain race, their damage falls behind.

Atherakhia · September 2020

Mag Sustain isn't really limited to DKs. All Mag have sustain issues, even Necros who get a fair bit of sustain within their own kit. If they would make Spell Symmetry a DOT so it was more than a wasted GCD you'd probably see a lot of the sustain issues for Mag disappear immediately.

This is one of the major flaws I find with ESO in general: so much of your time is spent doing nothing but maintaining buffs that don't do anything remarkable. This was an issue in WoW as well but they went through a lot of effort to ensure that any GCD spent was meaningful and provided a quantifiable return on the player's investment. This game could really use a pass through a lot of the skills/passives/game mechanics to find ways to alleviate some of the time we all spend doing nothing but maintaining buffs.

Tannus15 · September 2020

glad to have my strom atro back, still looking at a 10k dps loss vs live.

latest pts parse

live

was really hoping whatever the cause of this would be fixed this week. considering stam are fine and some mag builds are decent as long as they are using a melee spammable, it looks like all ranged abiltiies are getting 10% damage reduction, instead of just light attacks. a mag sorc has no way ot testing this however.

Also my brain keeps telling me that I should have better sustain on the dummy with the buffs to major and minor intellect, but my parses keep telling me otherwise. Could just be the nerf to magicka steal i guess...

Cinbri · September 2020

Since in this update we get some changes from "Light Attacks Tests", isnt it time to also add change that was done in test - make stuff that proc of Heavy Attacks to actually proc from HA, not from Medium Attacks. Why is smth that balanced around heavy attacks works with medium attacks that not even specified in game and not being heavy attack per se.

Ascarl · September 2020

Atherakhia wrote: »

This is one of the major flaws I find with ESO in general: so much of your time is spent doing nothing but maintaining buffs that don't do anything remarkable. This was an issue in WoW as well but they went through a lot of effort to ensure that any GCD spent was meaningful and provided a quantifiable return on the player's investment. This game could really use a pass through a lot of the skills/passives/game mechanics to find ways to alleviate some of the time we all spend doing nothing but maintaining buffs.

In my opinion the fix would be that some buffs can be toggled and don t need to be recast. This should apply to all buffs that are untargeted - which are either self or group etc.

llBlack_Heartll · September 2020

Tannus15 wrote: »

glad to have my strom atro back, still looking at a 10k dps loss vs live.

latest pts parse

live

was really hoping whatever the cause of this would be fixed this week. considering stam are fine and some mag builds are decent as long as they are using a melee spammable, it looks like all ranged abiltiies are getting 10% damage reduction, instead of just light attacks. a mag sorc has no way ot testing this however.

Also my brain keeps telling me that I should have better sustain on the dummy with the buffs to major and minor intellect, but my parses keep telling me otherwise. Could just be the nerf to magicka steal i guess...

10k is huge!

Saubon · September 2020

Tannus15 wrote: »

glad to have my strom atro back, still looking at a 10k dps loss vs live.

latest pts parse

live

was really hoping whatever the cause of this would be fixed this week. considering stam are fine and some mag builds are decent as long as they are using a melee spammable, it looks like all ranged abiltiies are getting 10% damage reduction, instead of just light attacks. a mag sorc has no way ot testing this however.

Also my brain keeps telling me that I should have better sustain on the dummy with the buffs to major and minor intellect, but my parses keep telling me otherwise. Could just be the nerf to magicka steal i guess...

Thats almost 11% dps loss. Is this intended?

Firstmep · September 2020

There is no separate thread for feed back on the major/minor buff changes ( @ZOS_GinaBruno )

So i will just leave this here:

With the massive buff to Major Courage, Spell Power Cure is going to become one of the best spell damage sets in the game, not just for support type characthers, and begs the question if it falls in line with the almighty SBE.

Keep in mind i am talking from a PVP perspective.

A quick comparison between SPC and some other spell damage sets:

Spell Power Cure: Provides 430 spell damage for 5 seconds, can be backbarred and the spell damage carries over to your front bar, no kiss curse effect, other than the short duration. Also provides that spell/weapon damage to allies.

New moon acolyte: 400weapon and spell damage on the 5th piece for 5% cost increase, the spd/wpd doesnt carry over, so you have to double bar it to have it active at all times.

Talfygs Treachery: 372 spell damage on the 5 piece, causes you to take 10% more fire and fighters guild damage, once again cant be backbarred.

Burning Spellweave: 490 spell damage, can be backbarred, but has a 4 second forced downtime, and not every class wants to run a flame staff for example.

Moon Hunter: 547 spell damage for 8 seconds, but its tied to alchemical poison so its not a guaranteed proc, backbarable, still a pretty decent set though.

Hex Siphon: 528 spd, IF you hit 6 ppl with the cone after basing a target, could be nice for stacked trash fights in pve, and thats about it, backbarable.

Voidcaller: 480 spell damage after at least 5 seconds of taking damage, technically back barable, but like its stamina counterpart works best if its active on both bars.

Scathing Mage: 516 spell damage for 5 seconds, however only a 20% chance to proc on direct damage, there is a reason why the set isnt that popular.

There are more sets that provide spell damage on the 5th piece, but i think this list shows my point pretty well.

Most of the sets in this list have either very specific proc conditions, some kiss curse effect, or just in general dont provide a big enough buff compared to SPC.

In particular, Talfygs is looking even more of a joke set considering the low amount of spell damage it provides, New Moon acolyte also in similar waters with 5% cost increase.

Some of these sets dont look too bad, like burning spellweave, until you actually compare it to the new spell power cure.

Yes 5 second duration is short, however if you have any healing over time in pvp, you can always just swap to the bakbar to refresh the buff. Even then its not hard to keep this up a 100% of the time, and dont forget in group play nothing comes close to the level of power you can provide to your overall group strenght.
In comparison, Powerful Assault gives a measly 300 weapon and spell damage and has 10m radius limit, and there are weapon damage sets that put the values on it to shame.

I only bring this up to show just how much the changes to the major/minor buffs and debuffs are going to mess with the game.
I could go on about how destro staves getting shafted in pvp with the buff changes, or how the empower change will make heavy attack builds 1 shot almost anyone in the game.
And the list goes on.

This type of huge change needs to be accompanied by relevant adjustments to everything affected, which is frankly everything combat related in the game.
Throwing out the major/minor system rebalance without no follow up adjustments will cause a lot of problems down the road.

Jodynn · September 2020

Tannus15 wrote: »

glad to have my strom atro back, still looking at a 10k dps loss vs live.

latest pts parse

live

was really hoping whatever the cause of this would be fixed this week. considering stam are fine and some mag builds are decent as long as they are using a melee spammable, it looks like all ranged abiltiies are getting 10% damage reduction, instead of just light attacks. a mag sorc has no way ot testing this however.

Also my brain keeps telling me that I should have better sustain on the dummy with the buffs to major and minor intellect, but my parses keep telling me otherwise. Could just be the nerf to magicka steal i guess...

Your regen should be closer to 2k with eye scream with the updated buff, that's pretty weird.

For parsing lower, I'm not sure I haven't tested sorc but I might later today because now I'm curious.

Maybe they broke major intellect on one of the potions or something..

Jodynn · September 2020

Make Combustion Passive be affected by Major Intellect and other like buffs, this way it scales with you instead of being lesser whenever you updated a Major buff, or idea two, just buff Combustion.

Either way it won't be enough and I'll still need more sustain.

Joinovikova · September 2020

any sight they wll make this game fun to play again and nerf all proc sets or the game will stay same one buton proc meta??

Jodynn · September 2020

Jodynn · September 2020

Wearing buff sets should give a specific buff to the user as well so they don't have to cry that their parse is a fraction of others, buff sets should compliment the group but keep your damage just as well.

Ideally, every class would have a buff set specific that the wear and provide buffs the best, but also buff themselves, this would provide an extra layer of synergy; but also not feel like a buff female dog but like a buff and asset.

Firstmep · October 2020

Jodynn wrote: »

Wearing buff sets should give a specific buff to the user as well so they don't have to cry that their parse is a fraction of others, buff sets should compliment the group but keep your damage just as well.

Ideally, every class would have a buff set specific that the wear and provide buffs the best, but also buff themselves, this would provide an extra layer of synergy; but also not feel like a buff female dog but like a buff and asset.

Which buff set are you talking about specifically?
Master architect/war machine grants you and your grp major slayer.
Olorime/spc gives you and affected allies its buff.
Same for powerful assault and pretty much all group buff sets I can think of.

If you want these sets to provide additional bonuses to the wearer, that's a slippery slope, Beacuse the whole point of these buff sets is that the wearer gives up some amount of power for greater overall group strength.

Firstmep · October 2020

A pass should be done on the ultimate abilities affected(nerfed) by the changes to the major/minor system reworks, similar to Necromancers Colossus ultimate.

Templar:
Nova: Both morphs lose a huge amount damage reduction. This leaves this ultimate with very little functionality outside Gravitiy Rush. For 240 ultimate this ability needs to provide more than a weak damage redutcion buff and some very weak aoe damage.
Remembrance(Morph of Rite of passage): Again a ton of damage reduction being lost here, the healing on this ability was already reduced multiple times over, very few templars use this ultimate already outside of large group play.

Warden:
Sleet Storm: yes it is annoying fighting a team in bgs with mutliple wardens rotating Permafrost/Northern storm, however magicka warden specifically needed this ultimate to be relevant.

Nightblade:
Consuming Darkness: Pretty much in the same shoes as Nova, an already underused ultimate losing even more of its power.

Dragonknight:
Dragonkinght Standard: Im a bit reluctant to put standard here and its already a pretty good ultimate, and im not a fan major defile, but with the nerf to defile this ultimate is also loosing effectiveness.

Cinbri · October 2020

Firstmep wrote: »

A pass should be done on the ultimate abilities affected(nerfed) by the changes to the major/minor system reworks, similar to Necromancers Colossus ultimate.

Templar:
Nova: Both morphs lose a huge amount damage reduction. This leaves this ultimate with very little functionality outside Gravitiy Rush. For 240 ultimate this ability needs to provide more than a weak damage redutcion buff and some very weak aoe damage.
Remembrance(Morph of Rite of passage): Again a ton of damage reduction being lost here, the healing on this ability was already reduced multiple times over, very few templars use this ultimate already outside of large group play.

Warden:
Sleet Storm: yes it is annoying fighting a team in bgs with mutliple wardens rotating Permafrost/Northern storm, however magicka warden specifically needed this ultimate to be relevant.

Nightblade:
Consuming Darkness: Pretty much in the same shoes as Nova, an already underused ultimate losing even more of its power.

Dragonknight:
Dragonkinght Standard: Im a bit reluctant to put standard here and its already a pretty good ultimate, and im not a fan major defile, but with the nerf to defile this ultimate is also loosing effectiveness.

Agree on everything but Sleet Storm - it was one of the most overtuned ultimates for an already overperforming in pvp clutch class. Cheaper, larger radius, mobile, perfect group utility - everything got pushed into Sleet Storm. Major Prot nerf will finally stop it being that rudiculously overperforming.
Its design so strong that even in its new state - it will still massively outperform similar ults that also got nerfed, exactly those you mentioned Nova, Standard and Consuming Darkness.
What we need now is Nova, Standard and CD to be overhauled into probably similar mobile ults and only then they will be on par with warden ult.

Firstmep · October 2020

Cinbri wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

A pass should be done on the ultimate abilities affected(nerfed) by the changes to the major/minor system reworks, similar to Necromancers Colossus ultimate.

Templar:
Nova: Both morphs lose a huge amount damage reduction. This leaves this ultimate with very little functionality outside Gravitiy Rush. For 240 ultimate this ability needs to provide more than a weak damage redutcion buff and some very weak aoe damage.
Remembrance(Morph of Rite of passage): Again a ton of damage reduction being lost here, the healing on this ability was already reduced multiple times over, very few templars use this ultimate already outside of large group play.

Warden:
Sleet Storm: yes it is annoying fighting a team in bgs with mutliple wardens rotating Permafrost/Northern storm, however magicka warden specifically needed this ultimate to be relevant.

Nightblade:
Consuming Darkness: Pretty much in the same shoes as Nova, an already underused ultimate losing even more of its power.

Dragonknight:
Dragonkinght Standard: Im a bit reluctant to put standard here and its already a pretty good ultimate, and im not a fan major defile, but with the nerf to defile this ultimate is also loosing effectiveness.

Agree on everything but Sleet Storm - it was one of the most overtuned ultimates for an already overperforming in pvp clutch class. Cheaper, larger radius, mobile, perfect group utility - everything got pushed into Sleet Storm. Major Prot nerf will finally stop it being that rudiculously overperforming.
Its design so strong that even in its new state - it will still massively outperform similar ults that also got nerfed, exactly those you mentioned Nova, Standard and Consuming Darkness.
What we need now is Nova, Standard and CD to be overhauled into probably similar mobile ults and only then they will be on par with warden ult.

I guess you are right about sleet storm.

But Nova, CD and Standard will need to be adjusted.

Shifting Standard is only relevant at the moment beacuse of defile.

Nova has 1 morph thats marginally useful in big stacked fights(gravity crush).

CD is pretty worthless.

These are high cost ultimates, saving up for them and casting them should have a noticable impact on the battlefield.

For example if i cast Blood Scion ultimate, i get full healed, gain huge amounts of resources and 15% lifesteal.

If i cast Nova, people just move out of it like its not even there.

Atherakhia · October 2020

Cinbri wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

A pass should be done on the ultimate abilities affected(nerfed) by the changes to the major/minor system reworks, similar to Necromancers Colossus ultimate.

Templar:
Nova: Both morphs lose a huge amount damage reduction. This leaves this ultimate with very little functionality outside Gravitiy Rush. For 240 ultimate this ability needs to provide more than a weak damage redutcion buff and some very weak aoe damage.
Remembrance(Morph of Rite of passage): Again a ton of damage reduction being lost here, the healing on this ability was already reduced multiple times over, very few templars use this ultimate already outside of large group play.

Warden:
Sleet Storm: yes it is annoying fighting a team in bgs with mutliple wardens rotating Permafrost/Northern storm, however magicka warden specifically needed this ultimate to be relevant.

Nightblade:
Consuming Darkness: Pretty much in the same shoes as Nova, an already underused ultimate losing even more of its power.

Dragonknight:
Dragonkinght Standard: Im a bit reluctant to put standard here and its already a pretty good ultimate, and im not a fan major defile, but with the nerf to defile this ultimate is also loosing effectiveness.

Agree on everything but Sleet Storm - it was one of the most overtuned ultimates for an already overperforming in pvp clutch class. Cheaper, larger radius, mobile, perfect group utility - everything got pushed into Sleet Storm. Major Prot nerf will finally stop it being that rudiculously overperforming.
Its design so strong that even in its new state - it will still massively outperform similar ults that also got nerfed, exactly those you mentioned Nova, Standard and Consuming Darkness.
What we need now is Nova, Standard and CD to be overhauled into probably similar mobile ults and only then they will be on par with warden ult.

I'm still hoping that they rethink the changes to Major Protection and Major Mending. Most of the abilities that apply these buffs were designed specifically to apply them for incredibly short durations because they were so powerful. Now that they are so trivial, especially when compared to their minor buffs, they no longer feel balanced by their short durations. We saw this with them adjusting the way major vuln works. Ideally they'd reconsider how much they nerfed these buffs and boost them back up to the 15/20% range. If they do, they should still do a pass and maybe nerf sleet storm specifically to be minor protection instead.

Similarly, the Necromancer mender likely needs to be changed to apply Minor Protection while the mender is active as opposed to its 10% damage reduction. It shouldn't stack with the buffs.

Jodynn · October 2020

Firstmep wrote: »

Jodynn wrote: »

Wearing buff sets should give a specific buff to the user as well so they don't have to cry that their parse is a fraction of others, buff sets should compliment the group but keep your damage just as well.

Ideally, every class would have a buff set specific that the wear and provide buffs the best, but also buff themselves, this would provide an extra layer of synergy; but also not feel like a buff female dog but like a buff and asset.

Which buff set are you talking about specifically?
Master architect/war machine grants you and your grp major slayer.
Olorime/spc gives you and affected allies its buff.
Same for powerful assault and pretty much all group buff sets I can think of.

If you want these sets to provide additional bonuses to the wearer, that's a slippery slope, Beacuse the whole point of these buff sets is that the wearer gives up some amount of power for greater overall group strength.

Things that elemental catalyst, zen's, martial knowledge, anything that plays terrible for the user but buffs everyone else and thus makes the user weaker than the rest by A LOT.

Master Architect and War Machine I'm not sure I would have to look but I'm pretty sure it still makes you weaker by a fair bit.

Spell Power Cure and Olorime are healer buff sets so I don't include them in this list.
Powerful assault is niche and also terrible to target people, and again a support set so not included here either.

Cinbri · October 2020

Change Vampire Fear to affect targets in 180° of frontal view instead of current 90°.

YandereGirlfriend · October 2020

Cinbri wrote: »

Change Vampire Fear to affect targets in 180° of frontal view instead of current 90°.

Vampire fear needs to be an AoE circle like the Fighter's Guild stun.

That is the baseline of usefulness that you need in order to justify the minimum 3% added ability cost and other myriad penalties for simply being a vampire.

After that basic functionality is taken care of then we can discuss additional de-buffs if the target is looking in your direction.

We can hopefully imagine something spicier than the current lame snare, perhaps Minor Mangle or Major Maim. The endangered species of Vampire Tanks would likely be happy to have the latter.

ArtOfShred · October 2020

A couple notes I wanted to bring up due to the pass being done on Major/Minor debuffs I think it's an appropriate time to take a look a few mobs in Dragonstar Arena:

Sovngarde Brawler (Stage 2 - The Frozen Ring):
These enemies have a Pierce Armor ability that puts a 43% armor/spell resistance debuff on the player. I'd like to suggest just changing this to apply Major Breach since a few other enemies also do this. Additionally the damage for this is called "Pierce Armor" while the debuff is called "Puncture" which doesn't match.

Additionally this enemy uses Low Slash which follows the behavior of the old version of this ability (12 sec duration 60% snare + 12 sec duration 15% damage reduction debuff). I'd like to suggest replacing the unique 15% damage reduction debuff they apply with Minor Maim instead.

Katti Ice-Turner (Stage 2 - The Frozen Ring - Boss):
Katti Ice-Turner has a variant of Frost Pulsar with a cast time that applies a debuff called "Icy Pulsar" that is a 10% Max Health reduction (exactly the same as Minor Mangle). It'd like to suggest removing this unique debuff and replacing it with Minor Mangle. In addition the ability name for her spell is "Icy Pulsar" (should be "Frost Pulsar") and the unique debuff equivalent to Minor Mangle also lacks an icon.

Saubon · October 2020

Changes to Master assassin passive seems very undesired from pve perspective, magicka nightblades will be overpenetrating in pve with basic debuffs.

Lets count:
2974 minor breach
5948 major breach (both applied by single skill from a tank)
2108 infused crusher enchant (also applied by tank)
4884 concentration passive
2974 master assassin
Sum: 18888 which is 688 over boss armor

Seems like this passive was changed in a vacuum without counting other penetration changes in.

Jodynn · October 2020

Saubon wrote: »

Changes to Master assassin passive seems very undesired from pve perspective, magicka nightblades will be overpenetrating in pve with basic debuffs.

Lets count:
2974 minor breach
5948 major breach (both applied by single skill from a tank)
2108 infused crusher enchant (also applied by tank)
4884 concentration passive
2974 master assassin
Sum: 18888 which is 688 over boss armor

Seems like this passive was changed in a vacuum without counting other penetration changes in.

They could have lowered the amount of damage it gives or penetration because it was an unnecessary buff to begin with that made them much stronger than other classes.

But if they were to buff other classes with free damage, why not. It's basically inflation at that point though.

Saubon · October 2020

Jodynn wrote: »

They could have lowered the amount of damage it gives or penetration because it was an unnecessary buff to begin with that made them much stronger than other classes.

But if they were to buff other classes with free damage, why not. It's basically inflation at that point though.

Or they can change concentration passive into something else, in trial setup all mag classes will overpen even without investing a single point into spell erosion.