PTS Update 28 - Feedback Thread for Combat & Classes

Jodynn

Saubon wrote: »

Jodynn wrote: »

They could have lowered the amount of damage it gives or penetration because it was an unnecessary buff to begin with that made them much stronger than other classes.

But if they were to buff other classes with free damage, why not. It's basically inflation at that point though.

Or they can change concentration passive into something else, in trial setup all mag classes will overpen even without investing a single point into spell erosion.

Yeah I'm on board with that.

katorga

Saubon wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

glad to have my strom atro back, still looking at a 10k dps loss vs live.

latest pts parse

live

was really hoping whatever the cause of this would be fixed this week. considering stam are fine and some mag builds are decent as long as they are using a melee spammable, it looks like all ranged abiltiies are getting 10% damage reduction, instead of just light attacks. a mag sorc has no way ot testing this however.

Also my brain keeps telling me that I should have better sustain on the dummy with the buffs to major and minor intellect, but my parses keep telling me otherwise. Could just be the nerf to magicka steal i guess...

Thats almost 11% dps loss. Is this intended?

They were pretty clear that they think there is too much crit. Crit equals damage. Combined with the changes to major/minors, they are planning a massive reduction in damage players do and a massive increase in damage that mobs do. The penetration changes probably reinforce this, because I think most mag classes will over penetrate by default now that they have massively buffed penetration sources.

Odd change because this is going to make endgame content out of reach for casual players.

Jodynn

PvE Trials

Can we get a monster helm that is better than Maw of the Infernal; instead of being a proc damage be some kind of buff that isn't baity and terrible like Molag Kena; or just better helms in general so we can have diversity other than burst fights are Balorgh, long fights are Maw of the Infernal.. spice up the helms to make them better, I know you did and tried to help a few but.... Wasn't enough and they're just mostly boring procs that don't do enough to matter.

Maybe helms that fit classes.. like a helm that increases the chance of Burning for MagDK and has some cool fire effect; a helm that does something with Meridia and the sun or something for Templars.. Make maw of the infernal ALWAYS active for sorcs because you know, they are summoners; and so on.
Maybe make Selene do something more interesting for Wardens and scale off their Animal Companions passives, do more than just generic sets... Just an idea.

Cinbri

Frenzied Momentum:
Decreased the damage on the Heavy Attack explosion to 9132, down from 10384.
While generating stacks, you now gain 38 Weapon Damage per stack, which is lost after the proc the explosion.
Increased the duration of the stacks and the window your fully charged stacks last to 20 seconds each, up from 10 seconds each. This should help grant the set less binary performance, where you were immediately punished for not constantly spamming Stamina abilities and activating a Heavy Attack every 5-6 seconds.

First, you easily doubled duration of stacks yet Burning Light stacks are remained 1sec, which is killing passive and I already showed numbers to prove it.
Secondly, "binary perfomance" is exactly term to describe new Burning Light functionality because you getting punished for not constantly spam Jabs or have perfect rotation of Spear Shards that not allow to waste miliseconds and thus loose all stacks of BL. And BL is even more punishing because if you wont be able to connect full Jabs or waste a second to recast Shards - all 3 stacks will dissapear, i.e. 1 GCD or up to 3GCD wasting completely.

How about fix Burning Light by either increase duration of stacks or grant small bonus for each stack as a compensation.

Atherakhia

Jodynn wrote: »

PvE Trials

Can we get a monster helm that is better than Maw of the Infernal; instead of being a proc damage be some kind of buff that isn't baity and terrible like Molag Kena; or just better helms in general so we can have diversity other than burst fights are Balorgh, long fights are Maw of the Infernal.. spice up the helms to make them better, I know you did and tried to help a few but.... Wasn't enough and they're just mostly boring procs that don't do enough to matter.

Maybe helms that fit classes.. like a helm that increases the chance of Burning for MagDK and has some cool fire effect; a helm that does something with Meridia and the sun or something for Templars.. Make maw of the infernal ALWAYS active for sorcs because you know, they are summoners; and so on.
Maybe make Selene do something more interesting for Wardens and scale off their Animal Companions passives, do more than just generic sets... Just an idea.

I agree. A lot of the monster helms are so poor and their roles so niche one of the easiest decisions players made was to drop their monster set in favor of a malacath band. This was made that much easier with the trainee set changes.

They need to first finish what they started and remove the rest of the chance on hit procs and convert the remaining sets to procs per minute instead. Take Nerieneth for example, no one uses this thing because the proc chance is so unreliable. Then combine that with the delay it's just an awful set. Make it always proc on damage with a X second cooldown and it will immediately get some use.

Once they've made those changes, I would love to see some class themed sets introduced in this game.

Onefrkncrzypope

Atherakhia wrote: »

Jodynn wrote: »

PvE Trials

Can we get a monster helm that is better than Maw of the Infernal; instead of being a proc damage be some kind of buff that isn't baity and terrible like Molag Kena; or just better helms in general so we can have diversity other than burst fights are Balorgh, long fights are Maw of the Infernal.. spice up the helms to make them better, I know you did and tried to help a few but.... Wasn't enough and they're just mostly boring procs that don't do enough to matter.

Maybe helms that fit classes.. like a helm that increases the chance of Burning for MagDK and has some cool fire effect; a helm that does something with Meridia and the sun or something for Templars.. Make maw of the infernal ALWAYS active for sorcs because you know, they are summoners; and so on.
Maybe make Selene do something more interesting for Wardens and scale off their Animal Companions passives, do more than just generic sets... Just an idea.

I agree. A lot of the monster helms are so poor and their roles so niche one of the easiest decisions players made was to drop their monster set in favor of a malacath band. This was made that much easier with the trainee set changes.

They need to first finish what they started and remove the rest of the chance on hit procs and convert the remaining sets to procs per minute instead. Take Nerieneth for example, no one uses this thing because the proc chance is so unreliable. Then combine that with the delay it's just an awful set. Make it always proc on damage with a X second cooldown and it will immediately get some use.

Once they've made those changes, I would love to see some class themed sets introduced in this game.

I remember when proc sets fit the role of the new comer. Made free damage to keep them out of the basement when they first start out in pve or PvP. Now it represents the majority of damage. I don't get why skill and time investment is so demonized.

I'm fine with a monster helm for the fun of effects. Monster helms used to be the best part of new dlc content but now it is the 5 piece sets.

Atherakhia

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Atherakhia wrote: »

Jodynn wrote: »

PvE Trials

Can we get a monster helm that is better than Maw of the Infernal; instead of being a proc damage be some kind of buff that isn't baity and terrible like Molag Kena; or just better helms in general so we can have diversity other than burst fights are Balorgh, long fights are Maw of the Infernal.. spice up the helms to make them better, I know you did and tried to help a few but.... Wasn't enough and they're just mostly boring procs that don't do enough to matter.

Maybe helms that fit classes.. like a helm that increases the chance of Burning for MagDK and has some cool fire effect; a helm that does something with Meridia and the sun or something for Templars.. Make maw of the infernal ALWAYS active for sorcs because you know, they are summoners; and so on.
Maybe make Selene do something more interesting for Wardens and scale off their Animal Companions passives, do more than just generic sets... Just an idea.

I agree. A lot of the monster helms are so poor and their roles so niche one of the easiest decisions players made was to drop their monster set in favor of a malacath band. This was made that much easier with the trainee set changes.

They need to first finish what they started and remove the rest of the chance on hit procs and convert the remaining sets to procs per minute instead. Take Nerieneth for example, no one uses this thing because the proc chance is so unreliable. Then combine that with the delay it's just an awful set. Make it always proc on damage with a X second cooldown and it will immediately get some use.

Once they've made those changes, I would love to see some class themed sets introduced in this game.

I remember when proc sets fit the role of the new comer. Made free damage to keep them out of the basement when they first start out in pve or PvP. Now it represents the majority of damage. I don't get why skill and time investment is so demonized.

Personally, I think it's an artifact of the tank meta. Fights would take too long to finish and no one had the sustain available to actually fight for the amount of time some fights lasted. So they had no choice other than to look for free damage elsewhere. Now that the tank meta has scaled back, people are still using the proc sets they were always using. Only now we notice.

Firstmep

Cinbri wrote: »

Frenzied Momentum:
Decreased the damage on the Heavy Attack explosion to 9132, down from 10384.
While generating stacks, you now gain 38 Weapon Damage per stack, which is lost after the proc the explosion.
Increased the duration of the stacks and the window your fully charged stacks last to 20 seconds each, up from 10 seconds each. This should help grant the set less binary performance, where you were immediately punished for not constantly spamming Stamina abilities and activating a Heavy Attack every 5-6 seconds.

First, you easily doubled duration of stacks yet Burning Light stacks are remained 1sec, which is killing passive and I already showed numbers to prove it.
Secondly, "binary perfomance" is exactly term to describe new Burning Light functionality because you getting punished for not constantly spam Jabs or have perfect rotation of Spear Shards that not allow to waste miliseconds and thus loose all stacks of BL. And BL is even more punishing because if you wont be able to connect full Jabs or waste a second to recast Shards - all 3 stacks will dissapear, i.e. 1 GCD or up to 3GCD wasting completely.

How about fix Burning Light by either increase duration of stacks or grant small bonus for each stack as a compensation.

Come on Cinbri should know better by now than to ask for templar buffs.

Apox

so you fixed the sorc atro synergy bug. it would be really awesome if you guys just outright made sorc atro apply to x many players, or let x many players hit the synergy. since major berserk is losing 15% damage off its buff, itd be nice to see the buff applied to multiple people

ne.ga.kurai_ESO

6.2.2

"Item sets and passives that generate Ultimate now require you to be in combat to activate, to help reduce their ability to continuously enter a fight at full Ultimate."

RE: Nightblades > Siphoning > Catalyst (passive)

Can you just delete this passive now that it doesn't work out of combat, please? Arkasis never should have went live as-is and so now we're nerfing everything. That's fine.

How about : "After drinking a potion, while in combat, purge all negative effects"

thanksss

notyuu

Stamina Templar Class heal when?
Power of the light matching damage of other delayed burst powers, when?

MincVinyl

After a cp rework is done, can we talk about the state of movement in the game?

Movement pre summerset used to be so fluid with more constant speed buffs and longer snare/root immunity sources. Due to swift being added almost all sources of major exp were cut and Forward Momentum was cut to 4s.

Ever since we have gone through several metas that were based around locking players in aoe snares/root spam asking for the defenders to spend an abhorrent amount of resource to counter one player's spam.

We've seen issues with melee abilities like dizzy swing, newer players having issues landing the skill (zos decided to add a snare thinking it would fix the issue)

We've seen issues over the past 2 years with players getting too clumped in combat >> zos believes aoes are the main cause, but players being stuck together is also an issue, combat being balled up further allows for more dense balls of calculations hitting the server.

---

There should be more longer duration snare/root immunity sources between 6-8s which would align with most buff durations and cc immunity times.

Each class should have access to one of these longer duration sources, potentially just change a morph of a pre-existing root ability. EX: encase has two morphs that are very similar, one could be made into a longer snare immunity+some effect

Fennwitty

Scorch: Subterranean Assault (Stamina Morph)

I haven't tested it yet, but Stamina Shalks for Warden just seems like a disappointing change.

I have a bow/bow Warden and a 1-h/Staff Warden. Stam Shalks was a good amount of damage and debuff rolled into one, but because both Shalks' range is pretty close I rarely use it with bow/bow.

I'm no master of the Warden but instead of a "free" cast of poison damage shalks I'd much prefer:

A. A targetable AOE castable from range or
B. An AOE DoT (Poison/Disease/Bleed) over 6 seconds

For PvE, only boss fights where the tank keeps the enemy still (or it has a giant hit box) would give me confidence in my ability to get the auto-cast to land. If I want the burst damage of two in a row, I could always cast twice in a row myself.

For PvP, with the delayed autocast I envision asking the server to do AOE checks on empty fields most of the time upon repeat. So not really saving calculations that way vs. some other effect.

Warden is lacking severely on dynamic targetable AOEs as a class. There's Healing Seed, Healing Thicket, and Winter's Revenge. (Growing Swarm is close but not quite.) Everything else that isn't single-target is tied to the character with a medium radius or cone.

Skjaldbjorn

Fennwitty wrote: »

Warden is lacking severely on dynamic targetable AOEs as a class. There's Healing Seed, Healing Thicket, and Winter's Revenge. (Growing Swarm is close but not quite.) Everything else that isn't single-target is tied to the character with a medium radius or cone.

Zos has explicitly worked against giving Stamina DPS more targeted ground-based AoEs. Stamden has actually seen a tremendous DPS spike from the Shalks change. Surprised me, honestly. I'm quite content with where they are at the moment. It actually resulted in a simplified rotation. I sincerely hope we get this Stamden as-is without changes next patch. Stamden should slide into the top-3 Stam DPS.

Berchelous

Please some love for Dragonknight and Templar...

We need consistent sustain passives and some purge or mobility skills if possible for DK like the TWO DLC classes.

Warden got free purge every 5 seconds. Necro got very good purge for 2k health cost.

Just some love for forgotten classes...

llBlack_Heartll

Fennwitty wrote: »

Scorch: Subterranean Assault (Stamina Morph)

I haven't tested it yet, but Stamina Shalks for Warden just seems like a disappointing change.

I have a bow/bow Warden and a 1-h/Staff Warden. Stam Shalks was a good amount of damage and debuff rolled into one, but because both Shalks' range is pretty close I rarely use it with bow/bow.

I'm no master of the Warden but instead of a "free" cast of poison damage shalks I'd much prefer:

A. A targetable AOE castable from range or
B. An AOE DoT (Poison/Disease/Bleed) over 6 seconds

For PvE, only boss fights where the tank keeps the enemy still (or it has a giant hit box) would give me confidence in my ability to get the auto-cast to land. If I want the burst damage of two in a row, I could always cast twice in a row myself.

For PvP, with the delayed autocast I envision asking the server to do AOE checks on empty fields most of the time upon repeat. So not really saving calculations that way vs. some other effect.

Warden is lacking severely on dynamic targetable AOEs as a class. There's Healing Seed, Healing Thicket, and Winter's Revenge. (Growing Swarm is close but not quite.) Everything else that isn't single-target is tied to the character with a medium radius or cone.

If you aren't using Sub Assault on your Bowden, you are seriously gimping yourself!

lolo_01b16_ESO

With the changes to the major buffs, you should have a look at all the ultimates that used them and rework them somehow.

Nova and Consuming Darkness have already been ultimates with just situational use, but with their damage reduction changed to just 10% they will become next to useless. This little amount of mitigation will rarely save you (unlike a barrier) and if you want have a high damage aoe ultimate, elemental rage is a way better choice.
If you want to keep them as defensive ultimates, you have to either keep major maim and protection at 30% and change some other skills (like Deaden Pain) to only grant minor portection, or change those ultimates, so that they grant a unique buff that keeps the 30% value.
As an alternative, if you want them to be damage focussed ultimates, they need to be able to compete with fiery rage or add something valuable (e.g. major brittle)

Other ultimates that should to be looked at are Soul Siphon and Remembrance. They still have their niche as burst heal ultimates, but they both got also hit by the buff changes and didn't need a nerf at all.

Atherakhia

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

With the changes to the major buffs, you should have a look at all the ultimates that used them and rework them somehow.

Nova and Consuming Darkness have already been ultimates with just situational use, but with their damage reduction changed to just 10% they will become next to useless. This little amount of mitigation will rarely save you (unlike a barrier) and if you want have a high damage aoe ultimate, elemental rage is a way better choice.
If you want to keep them as defensive ultimates, you have to either keep major maim and protection at 30% and change some other skills (like Deaden Pain) to only grant minor portection, or change those ultimates, so that they grant a unique buff that keeps the 30% value.
As an alternative, if you want them to be damage focussed ultimates, they need to be able to compete with fiery rage or add something valuable (e.g. major brittle)

Other ultimates that should to be looked at are Soul Siphon and Remembrance. They still have their niche as burst heal ultimates, but they both got also hit by the buff changes and didn't need a nerf at all.

They shouldn't limit their attention to ultimates. There are several abilities that used either Major Protection or Major Mending that were previously balanced around the fact that these buffs were so powerful so their durations were quite limited. Now that these buffs are effectively trivial in their overall potency, there's no reason these skills should remain the way they are. I'm still hoping they'll realize that a number of their nerfs to the major buffs/debuffs were too heavy handed and will raise some of them so these various skills will justify their short durations.

Tommy_The_Gun

Item sets and passives that generate Ultimate now require you to be in combat to activate, to help reduce their ability to continuously enter a fight at full Ultimate.

May I ask, what is the problem of being able to enter combat at full (or partialy full) ultimate, aka open a fight with an ulitmate ability ???

As far as I can tell it was always a thing. Why all of the sudden it is an issue ? Certain classes and playstyles even are ment to opretate in that way (gain ulti outside of combat). Some classes are ment to gain more ulti while in combat like (DK or Warden) and other - outside of combat, as a pre-buff. I think the prime example is NB with its potion passive. It is an "assasin" archetype. Class was designed for being able to open a fight with an ultimate.
Now, this tiny change will affect the whole game ecosystem. People will save their ulti for later or even - ignore the whole ultimate system to some degree and slot ultimates mostly for passive.
I have tested it on PTS and it is pretty harsh. New players and solo players will struggle the most, while in group enviroment - it won't be noticable this much.
I have tested this change and it was mostly noticeable on a NB, as it has pretty much no other sources of ulti gain (other than soul harvest that is, but it is still there mostly for passive, and "in combat"). As someone in this thread have already said NB's Catalyst passive is kinda useless currently on PTS. I mean as far as I can tell, this passive was never an issue and was not changed since like... game launched, back in 2014...

If I were to give an advise / suggestion / feedback, I would limit this "only in combat" ultimate gain to sets only, and leave passives as they are. Otherwise, you will have to re-do a lot of passives & abilities, as some classes tend to relay more on passives, and other on abilities. Necromancer is a good example here as this class will still be able to gain ultimate outside of combat (Necrotic Potency).

Atherakhia

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Item sets and passives that generate Ultimate now require you to be in combat to activate, to help reduce their ability to continuously enter a fight at full Ultimate.

May I ask, what is the problem of being able to enter combat at full (or partialy full) ultimate, aka open a fight with an ulitmate ability ???

As far as I can tell it was always a thing. Why all of the sudden it is an issue ? Certain classes and playstyles even are ment to opretate in that way (gain ulti outside of combat). Some classes are ment to gain more ulti while in combat like (DK or Warden) and other - outside of combat, as a pre-buff. I think the prime example is NB with its potion passive. It is an "assasin" archetype. Class was designed for being able to open a fight with an ultimate.
Now, this tiny change will affect the whole game ecosystem. People will save their ulti for later or even - ignore the whole ultimate system to some degree and slot ultimates mostly for passive.
I have tested it on PTS and it is pretty harsh. New players and solo players will struggle the most, while in group enviroment - it won't be noticable this much.
I have tested this change and it was mostly noticeable on a NB, as it has pretty much no other sources of ulti gain (other than soul harvest that is, but it is still there mostly for passive, and "in combat"). As someone in this thread have already said NB's Catalyst passive is kinda useless currently on PTS. I mean as far as I can tell, this passive was never an issue and was not changed since like... game launched, back in 2014...

If I were to give an advise / suggestion / feedback, I would limit this "only in combat" ultimate gain to sets only, and leave passives as they are. Otherwise, you will have to re-do a lot of passives & abilities, as some classes tend to relay more on passives, and other on abilities. Necromancer is a good example here as this class will still be able to gain ultimate outside of combat (Necrotic Potency).

When every fight starts with 8 meteors and a colossus it's a problem. This change is inconsequential. Yes, it makes these sets useless outside of trash pulls. They're hardly the only sets that will be useless. I honestly don't understand the complaint with this.

Jodynn

Major Vulnerability and Brittle on trial dummy feels cheesy and just confirms the need for 4 necromancers to be able to achieve the major vulnerability uptime.

Sustain is still major trash without parse food AND a charged staff.

Atherakhia

NOTHING should be on a single class. Major Vuln needs to be moved to something else. It doesn't mean every class needs access to everything, but no single class should bring something otherwise you have stacking like we see today. If vuln was on another class would Necromancers even get invites? Probably not. But if that's what's necessary for ZOS to finally improve classes so be it.

Jodynn

Magicka is significantly weaker than Stamina

llBlack_Heartll

Atherakhia wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Item sets and passives that generate Ultimate now require you to be in combat to activate, to help reduce their ability to continuously enter a fight at full Ultimate.

May I ask, what is the problem of being able to enter combat at full (or partialy full) ultimate, aka open a fight with an ulitmate ability ???

As far as I can tell it was always a thing. Why all of the sudden it is an issue ? Certain classes and playstyles even are ment to opretate in that way (gain ulti outside of combat). Some classes are ment to gain more ulti while in combat like (DK or Warden) and other - outside of combat, as a pre-buff. I think the prime example is NB with its potion passive. It is an "assasin" archetype. Class was designed for being able to open a fight with an ultimate.
Now, this tiny change will affect the whole game ecosystem. People will save their ulti for later or even - ignore the whole ultimate system to some degree and slot ultimates mostly for passive.
I have tested it on PTS and it is pretty harsh. New players and solo players will struggle the most, while in group enviroment - it won't be noticable this much.
I have tested this change and it was mostly noticeable on a NB, as it has pretty much no other sources of ulti gain (other than soul harvest that is, but it is still there mostly for passive, and "in combat"). As someone in this thread have already said NB's Catalyst passive is kinda useless currently on PTS. I mean as far as I can tell, this passive was never an issue and was not changed since like... game launched, back in 2014...

If I were to give an advise / suggestion / feedback, I would limit this "only in combat" ultimate gain to sets only, and leave passives as they are. Otherwise, you will have to re-do a lot of passives & abilities, as some classes tend to relay more on passives, and other on abilities. Necromancer is a good example here as this class will still be able to gain ultimate outside of combat (Necrotic Potency).

When every fight starts with 8 meteors and a colossus it's a problem. This change is inconsequential. Yes, it makes these sets useless outside of trash pulls. They're hardly the only sets that will be useless. I honestly don't understand the complaint with this.

Looks like another PvP nerf that PVE suffers for.

YandereGirlfriend

TBH, it's not much of a penalty in Cyrodiil since you are randomly stuck in combat 90% of the time anyway xD

Firstmep

llBlack_Heartll wrote: »

Atherakhia wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Item sets and passives that generate Ultimate now require you to be in combat to activate, to help reduce their ability to continuously enter a fight at full Ultimate.

May I ask, what is the problem of being able to enter combat at full (or partialy full) ultimate, aka open a fight with an ulitmate ability ???

As far as I can tell it was always a thing. Why all of the sudden it is an issue ? Certain classes and playstyles even are ment to opretate in that way (gain ulti outside of combat). Some classes are ment to gain more ulti while in combat like (DK or Warden) and other - outside of combat, as a pre-buff. I think the prime example is NB with its potion passive. It is an "assasin" archetype. Class was designed for being able to open a fight with an ultimate.
Now, this tiny change will affect the whole game ecosystem. People will save their ulti for later or even - ignore the whole ultimate system to some degree and slot ultimates mostly for passive.
I have tested it on PTS and it is pretty harsh. New players and solo players will struggle the most, while in group enviroment - it won't be noticable this much.
I have tested this change and it was mostly noticeable on a NB, as it has pretty much no other sources of ulti gain (other than soul harvest that is, but it is still there mostly for passive, and "in combat"). As someone in this thread have already said NB's Catalyst passive is kinda useless currently on PTS. I mean as far as I can tell, this passive was never an issue and was not changed since like... game launched, back in 2014...

If I were to give an advise / suggestion / feedback, I would limit this "only in combat" ultimate gain to sets only, and leave passives as they are. Otherwise, you will have to re-do a lot of passives & abilities, as some classes tend to relay more on passives, and other on abilities. Necromancer is a good example here as this class will still be able to gain ultimate outside of combat (Necrotic Potency).

When every fight starts with 8 meteors and a colossus it's a problem. This change is inconsequential. Yes, it makes these sets useless outside of trash pulls. They're hardly the only sets that will be useless. I honestly don't understand the complaint with this.

Looks like another PvP nerf that PVE suffers for.

Actually it's aimed at pve more so than pvp.

He was referring to every boss fight starting with 8 meteors.
Arkasis genius made it kinda dumb to generate ult outside of combat.

llBlack_Heartll

Firstmep wrote: »

llBlack_Heartll wrote: »

Atherakhia wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Item sets and passives that generate Ultimate now require you to be in combat to activate, to help reduce their ability to continuously enter a fight at full Ultimate.

May I ask, what is the problem of being able to enter combat at full (or partialy full) ultimate, aka open a fight with an ulitmate ability ???

As far as I can tell it was always a thing. Why all of the sudden it is an issue ? Certain classes and playstyles even are ment to opretate in that way (gain ulti outside of combat). Some classes are ment to gain more ulti while in combat like (DK or Warden) and other - outside of combat, as a pre-buff. I think the prime example is NB with its potion passive. It is an "assasin" archetype. Class was designed for being able to open a fight with an ultimate.
Now, this tiny change will affect the whole game ecosystem. People will save their ulti for later or even - ignore the whole ultimate system to some degree and slot ultimates mostly for passive.
I have tested it on PTS and it is pretty harsh. New players and solo players will struggle the most, while in group enviroment - it won't be noticable this much.
I have tested this change and it was mostly noticeable on a NB, as it has pretty much no other sources of ulti gain (other than soul harvest that is, but it is still there mostly for passive, and "in combat"). As someone in this thread have already said NB's Catalyst passive is kinda useless currently on PTS. I mean as far as I can tell, this passive was never an issue and was not changed since like... game launched, back in 2014...

If I were to give an advise / suggestion / feedback, I would limit this "only in combat" ultimate gain to sets only, and leave passives as they are. Otherwise, you will have to re-do a lot of passives & abilities, as some classes tend to relay more on passives, and other on abilities. Necromancer is a good example here as this class will still be able to gain ultimate outside of combat (Necrotic Potency).

When every fight starts with 8 meteors and a colossus it's a problem. This change is inconsequential. Yes, it makes these sets useless outside of trash pulls. They're hardly the only sets that will be useless. I honestly don't understand the complaint with this.

Looks like another PvP nerf that PVE suffers for.

Actually it's aimed at pve more so than pvp.

He was referring to every boss fight starting with 8 meteors.
Arkasis genius made it kinda dumb to generate ult outside of combat.

I don't know many that use Meteor as an ulti in PvE, its normally there for stats. Its more used in PvP for the stun attached. that's why I assumed he was talking PvP.

katorga

Atherakhia wrote: »

NOTHING should be on a single class. Major Vuln needs to be moved to something else. It doesn't mean every class needs access to everything, but no single class should bring something otherwise you have stacking like we see today. If vuln was on another class would Necromancers even get invites? Probably not. But if that's what's necessary for ZOS to finally improve classes so be it.

Didn't major vuln get nerfed to 10%?

Does it even matter?

Atherakhia

katorga wrote: »

Atherakhia wrote: »

NOTHING should be on a single class. Major Vuln needs to be moved to something else. It doesn't mean every class needs access to everything, but no single class should bring something otherwise you have stacking like we see today. If vuln was on another class would Necromancers even get invites? Probably not. But if that's what's necessary for ZOS to finally improve classes so be it.

Didn't major vuln get nerfed to 10%?

Does it even matter?

Hard to tell. Will progression groups still push 3 Necros to provide this minimal buff? Will they leave Major Vuln, Major Protection, and Major Mending at such trivial amounts to make their application of no real value? Does either of that really change the simple fact that the reason people stack classes is because they provide something crucial to a group that others don't or they are so significantly ahead in damage bringing other classes is a disadvantage.

That last issue is what needs to be resolved. Classes need to do roughly the same damage and no single thing should be provided by a single class which only encourages stacking.

katorga

Atherakhia wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Atherakhia wrote: »

NOTHING should be on a single class. Major Vuln needs to be moved to something else. It doesn't mean every class needs access to everything, but no single class should bring something otherwise you have stacking like we see today. If vuln was on another class would Necromancers even get invites? Probably not. But if that's what's necessary for ZOS to finally improve classes so be it.

Didn't major vuln get nerfed to 10%?

Does it even matter?

Hard to tell. Will progression groups still push 3 Necros to provide this minimal buff? Will they leave Major Vuln, Major Protection, and Major Mending at such trivial amounts to make their application of no real value? Does either of that really change the simple fact that the reason people stack classes is because they provide something crucial to a group that others don't or they are so significantly ahead in damage bringing other classes is a disadvantage.

That last issue is what needs to be resolved. Classes need to do roughly the same damage and no single thing should be provided by a single class which only encourages stacking.

Who knows. What will be scary is if they decide to make the nerfed buffs "feel" more meaningful they take a pass through sets, class passives, etc, and nerf those down below the new standards....the warden frost/magic passive from 10% to 8%, the sorc shock/physical 5% to 3% for example.

I'd bet money they knew this was coming, and is a big reason why potentates went from 5%-3% reduced damage.