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To many Proc sets. Needs a nerf
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FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭kathandira wrote: »RampenSau324 wrote: »I´m sick of seeing the majority of my Deathrecaps being Procsets ( mostly 2-4 of the same set). Procsets are way to easy to Proc: 1 Poisen Injection will proc Hunters Venom and Sheer Venom at the same time. If there is 2 or 3 of them they just stack those procs over and over again. No way you are out healing that. Sure people say pruge it. Templar can purge it once every 3 sec.(due to the Tests in Cyro right now) just to get it reapplied the second after from a different person that didnt use Poisen Injection on you yet.
Procsets need to be nerfed or changed. In my opinion they should not stack that would do the trick I think. One Proc can be applied. If 2 ppl run Hunters Venom, which is daily business, only one should apply they other can´t. Maybe refreshing the proc, but stacking multiple Procs of the same set should not be case. Im sick of seeing my debuffs going like a Slotmachine!
No thanks. Proc Sets in PvE make theory crafting interesting.
These proc sets in question arent even the best you could use. So as far as theory crafting goes, you've already lost if you're using one of these. The only thing interesting here is why you'd defend its pve application at the expense of destroying pvps. Its be the equivalent of changing some sets for pvp and as a result they are the best go-to easy sets for pve. In turn, itd ruin your theory crafting adventures. Please stop this mentality unless you've got a full scope of understanding on both sides of the issue. There are players that do.5 -
kathandira✭✭✭✭✭
✭kathandira wrote: »RampenSau324 wrote: »I´m sick of seeing the majority of my Deathrecaps being Procsets ( mostly 2-4 of the same set). Procsets are way to easy to Proc: 1 Poisen Injection will proc Hunters Venom and Sheer Venom at the same time. If there is 2 or 3 of them they just stack those procs over and over again. No way you are out healing that. Sure people say pruge it. Templar can purge it once every 3 sec.(due to the Tests in Cyro right now) just to get it reapplied the second after from a different person that didnt use Poisen Injection on you yet.
Procsets need to be nerfed or changed. In my opinion they should not stack that would do the trick I think. One Proc can be applied. If 2 ppl run Hunters Venom, which is daily business, only one should apply they other can´t. Maybe refreshing the proc, but stacking multiple Procs of the same set should not be case. Im sick of seeing my debuffs going like a Slotmachine!
No thanks. Proc Sets in PvE make theory crafting interesting.
These proc sets in question arent even the best you could use.
Best or not, they can make for interesting builds.PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc1 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There are also heal, block, thorn, and reflect sets that can counter DOT and direct damage sets. I could throw together something that can make the proc set user kill themself.
Variety is the spice of life. Let people play as they like. Don’t like how they engage you, make them think twice about doing it again.1 -
Recapitated✭✭✭✭There are also heal, block, thorn, and reflect sets that can counter DOT and direct damage sets. I could throw together something that can make the proc set user kill themself.
Variety is the spice of life. Let people play as they like. Don’t like how they engage you, make them think twice about doing it again.
Post the buildkathandira wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »kathandira wrote: »RampenSau324 wrote: »I´m sick of seeing the majority of my Deathrecaps being Procsets ( mostly 2-4 of the same set). Procsets are way to easy to Proc: 1 Poisen Injection will proc Hunters Venom and Sheer Venom at the same time. If there is 2 or 3 of them they just stack those procs over and over again. No way you are out healing that. Sure people say pruge it. Templar can purge it once every 3 sec.(due to the Tests in Cyro right now) just to get it reapplied the second after from a different person that didnt use Poisen Injection on you yet.
Procsets need to be nerfed or changed. In my opinion they should not stack that would do the trick I think. One Proc can be applied. If 2 ppl run Hunters Venom, which is daily business, only one should apply they other can´t. Maybe refreshing the proc, but stacking multiple Procs of the same set should not be case. Im sick of seeing my debuffs going like a Slotmachine!
No thanks. Proc Sets in PvE make theory crafting interesting.
They make pvp interesting too, if they make up part of the build... The issue we have at the moment is people wearing all proc sets. I wouldn't advocate a nerf in their power, but perhaps a shared cooldown to limit the appeal in stacking them.
That would still have a major effect on PvE. This is the pendulum we deal with. What is good for PvE and is not good for PvP, and the other way around. Balance between the two sides of the game will never ever happen. And when a nerf gets called from one side, the other side will suffer. There is no solution to this as ZoS refuses to make skills and sets behave differently in the two modes.
They should just implement it via Battle Spirit. Or just design proc sets so they have narrow proc conditions that don't really overlap, but the cat is mostly out of the bag now.Edited by Recapitated on September 22, 2020 5:32PM3 -
DTStormfox✭✭✭✭✭I've already concluded that proc sets dominate PvP, especially no-cp PvP. One can easily stack proc sets and it requires literally NO skill to run those builds.
Take for example the Hunter's Venom dot from the Venomous Smite set. It is way too powerful.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/530462/greymoor-venomous-smite-vipers-sting-in-horns-of-the-reach-patch-when-it-was-considered-op0 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DTStormfox wrote: »I've already concluded that proc sets dominate PvP, especially no-cp PvP. One can easily stack proc sets and it requires literally NO skill to run those builds.
Take for example the Hunter's Venom dot from the Venomous Smite set. It is way too powerful.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/530462/greymoor-venomous-smite-vipers-sting-in-horns-of-the-reach-patch-when-it-was-considered-op
You have 10 seconds to remove it from yourself and 15 seconds before it can hit you again.
This set is garbage compared to 100% uptime DOTs that can be refreshed faster.0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well if AoE get nerfed hard all will obviously run 3 proc sets.
I guess the next dlc dungeons will have stuff like Sheer Venom but as heavy armor and an stamina version of Zan
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
Daffen✭✭✭✭DTStormfox wrote: »I've already concluded that proc sets dominate PvP, especially no-cp PvP. One can easily stack proc sets and it requires literally NO skill to run those builds.
Take for example the Hunter's Venom dot from the Venomous Smite set. It is way too powerful.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/530462/greymoor-venomous-smite-vipers-sting-in-horns-of-the-reach-patch-when-it-was-considered-op
You have 10 seconds to remove it from yourself and 15 seconds before it can hit you again.
This set is garbage compared to 100% uptime DOTs that can be refreshed faster.
How do i remove this debuff as a stamsorc?1 -
Merforum✭✭✭✭✭kathandira wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »kathandira wrote: »RampenSau324 wrote: »I´m sick of seeing the majority of my Deathrecaps being Procsets ( mostly 2-4 of the same set). Procsets are way to easy to Proc: 1 Poisen Injection will proc Hunters Venom and Sheer Venom at the same time. If there is 2 or 3 of them they just stack those procs over and over again. No way you are out healing that. Sure people say pruge it. Templar can purge it once every 3 sec.(due to the Tests in Cyro right now) just to get it reapplied the second after from a different person that didnt use Poisen Injection on you yet.
Procsets need to be nerfed or changed. In my opinion they should not stack that would do the trick I think. One Proc can be applied. If 2 ppl run Hunters Venom, which is daily business, only one should apply they other can´t. Maybe refreshing the proc, but stacking multiple Procs of the same set should not be case. Im sick of seeing my debuffs going like a Slotmachine!
No thanks. Proc Sets in PvE make theory crafting interesting.
They make pvp interesting too, if they make up part of the build... The issue we have at the moment is people wearing all proc sets. I wouldn't advocate a nerf in their power, but perhaps a shared cooldown to limit the appeal in stacking them.
That would still have a major effect on PvE. This is the pendulum we deal with. What is good for PvE and is not good for PvP, and the other way around. Balance between the two sides of the game will never ever happen. And when a nerf gets called from one side, the other side will suffer. There is no solution to this as ZoS refuses to make skills and sets behave differently in the two modes.
I think people are missing a very big reason many people are using 2 proc sets now, the only way to get 1 Mythic, 2 Monster, and 2 full 5 piece sets is with proc sets. The Mythic 1 piece is driving this change more than anything. But it is exactly the same when people used 2 monster, 1 full 5 piece, 1 proc set on back bar and maelstrom on front bar. Which is also better than just using 2 static 5 pieces on both bars and 1 monster set.
The game is much funner with all the extra options. ZOS should stop listening to the same PVPers who are always complaining when they can't instantly kill 20 dudes with streak spam, light attack exploit, sweeps spam, etc and instead of changing their tactics/gear they just want everything nerfed so they can play the same way.0 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DTStormfox wrote: »I've already concluded that proc sets dominate PvP, especially no-cp PvP. One can easily stack proc sets and it requires literally NO skill to run those builds.
Take for example the Hunter's Venom dot from the Venomous Smite set. It is way too powerful.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/530462/greymoor-venomous-smite-vipers-sting-in-horns-of-the-reach-patch-when-it-was-considered-op
You have 10 seconds to remove it from yourself and 15 seconds before it can hit you again.
This set is garbage compared to 100% uptime DOTs that can be refreshed faster.
How do i remove this debuff as a stamsorc?
Everybody has access to Purge. No such thing as a zero magicka build.
2 -
Recapitated✭✭✭✭DTStormfox wrote: »I've already concluded that proc sets dominate PvP, especially no-cp PvP. One can easily stack proc sets and it requires literally NO skill to run those builds.
Take for example the Hunter's Venom dot from the Venomous Smite set. It is way too powerful.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/530462/greymoor-venomous-smite-vipers-sting-in-horns-of-the-reach-patch-when-it-was-considered-op
You have 10 seconds to remove it from yourself and 15 seconds before it can hit you again.
This set is garbage compared to 100% uptime DOTs that can be refreshed faster.
How do i remove this debuff as a stamsorc?
Everybody has access to Purge. No such thing as a zero magicka build.
Cost of purging: 5k off-resource
Cost of poison injection: 2.7k main resource
In no CP where proc sets are at their worst, you can cast it twice. If you're on a stamdk and you prebuff with volatile and cauterize, once, and then you lose access to major mending and your ability to uncloak the NB who put syvarra's & sheer venom on you in the first place. What's the plan 3 seconds later when they do the same thing again and when Syvarra's procs again another 4 seconds later?Edited by Recapitated on September 22, 2020 7:19PM3 -
Jierdanit✭✭✭✭✭
✭DTStormfox wrote: »I've already concluded that proc sets dominate PvP, especially no-cp PvP. One can easily stack proc sets and it requires literally NO skill to run those builds.
Take for example the Hunter's Venom dot from the Venomous Smite set. It is way too powerful.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/530462/greymoor-venomous-smite-vipers-sting-in-horns-of-the-reach-patch-when-it-was-considered-op
You have 10 seconds to remove it from yourself and 15 seconds before it can hit you again.
This set is garbage compared to 100% uptime DOTs that can be refreshed faster.
How do i remove this debuff as a stamsorc?
Everybody has access to Purge. No such thing as a zero magicka build.
And you are going to slot purge on a noncp stamsorc?
Purge costs about 5k mag, that is already near half of what a properly builded noncp stamsorc has.
So you could literally purge twice and then youre empty
On top of that though, nearly all PvP stamsorcs use streak as well as dark Deal (and maybe surge) which all are very important skills for a stamsorc, because they make up huge parts of you defense and sustain.
And you try to tell a normal stamsorc build which already has quite some mag drain via its class abilities to also slot a 5k mag purge to counter 2 proc Sets?
That is already ridiculous without even talking about the "wasted" bar Slot for purge.
Think againPC/EU, StamSorc Main4 -
Jierdanit✭✭✭✭✭
✭kathandira wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »kathandira wrote: »RampenSau324 wrote: »I´m sick of seeing the majority of my Deathrecaps being Procsets ( mostly 2-4 of the same set). Procsets are way to easy to Proc: 1 Poisen Injection will proc Hunters Venom and Sheer Venom at the same time. If there is 2 or 3 of them they just stack those procs over and over again. No way you are out healing that. Sure people say pruge it. Templar can purge it once every 3 sec.(due to the Tests in Cyro right now) just to get it reapplied the second after from a different person that didnt use Poisen Injection on you yet.
Procsets need to be nerfed or changed. In my opinion they should not stack that would do the trick I think. One Proc can be applied. If 2 ppl run Hunters Venom, which is daily business, only one should apply they other can´t. Maybe refreshing the proc, but stacking multiple Procs of the same set should not be case. Im sick of seeing my debuffs going like a Slotmachine!
No thanks. Proc Sets in PvE make theory crafting interesting.
They make pvp interesting too, if they make up part of the build... The issue we have at the moment is people wearing all proc sets. I wouldn't advocate a nerf in their power, but perhaps a shared cooldown to limit the appeal in stacking them.
That would still have a major effect on PvE. This is the pendulum we deal with. What is good for PvE and is not good for PvP, and the other way around. Balance between the two sides of the game will never ever happen. And when a nerf gets called from one side, the other side will suffer. There is no solution to this as ZoS refuses to make skills and sets behave differently in the two modes.
I think people are missing a very big reason many people are using 2 proc sets now, the only way to get 1 Mythic, 2 Monster, and 2 full 5 piece sets is with proc sets. The Mythic 1 piece is driving this change more than anything. But it is exactly the same when people used 2 monster, 1 full 5 piece, 1 proc set on back bar and maelstrom on front bar. Which is also better than just using 2 static 5 pieces on both bars and 1 monster set.
The game is much funner with all the extra options. ZOS should stop listening to the same PVPers who are always complaining when they can't instantly kill 20 dudes with streak spam, light attack exploit, sweeps spam, etc and instead of changing their tactics/gear they just want everything nerfed so they can play the same way.
The problem is Not that ppl are not able to kill the average proc abuser.(since Most of them are really Bad defensively)
The Problem rather is that literally any player, regardless of their skill level can slot venomous and sheer venom and can put like 2-3k inc dps on you by simply using 2 abilities.
1v1 that is not as much of a problem, since you can yourself Attack the proc User and kill them quickly or at least pressure them so they have to Go on defense (even tho that doesnt matter much cuz they can reapply that pressure with 2 skills...).
If you are 1vx tho you can have like 3+ ppl on you who all have 2/3 proc sets slotted and they keep you dotted up for like 5k+ dps.
That is simply ridiculous by itself and that is without seeing the difference in Player skill, where an absolute noob can dmg you as much as a Player who spend time working on their Set and Skill setup and who on top of that have to spend gcds for that dmg.
PC/EU, StamSorc Main2 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Recapitated wrote: »DTStormfox wrote: »I've already concluded that proc sets dominate PvP, especially no-cp PvP. One can easily stack proc sets and it requires literally NO skill to run those builds.
Take for example the Hunter's Venom dot from the Venomous Smite set. It is way too powerful.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/530462/greymoor-venomous-smite-vipers-sting-in-horns-of-the-reach-patch-when-it-was-considered-op
You have 10 seconds to remove it from yourself and 15 seconds before it can hit you again.
This set is garbage compared to 100% uptime DOTs that can be refreshed faster.
How do i remove this debuff as a stamsorc?
Everybody has access to Purge. No such thing as a zero magicka build.
Cost of purging: 5k off-resource
Cost of poison injection: 2.7k main resource
In no CP where proc sets are at their worst, you can cast it twice. If you're on a stamdk and you prebuff with volatile and cauterize, once, and then you lose access to major mending and your ability to uncloak the NB who put syvarra's & sheer venom on you in the first place. What's the plan 3 seconds later when they do the same thing again and when Syvarra's procs again another 4 seconds later?
My response was to the person asking how to remove Hunter's Venom. If you can't regenerate 5k magicka every 15 seconds, then I got some bad news.
And if a person can't afford to "waste" one of their 10 non-ultimate skill slots on something to remove DOTs, CC's, and debuffs, well that sounds like a L2P issue. If your strategy in PvP is to outdamage the other guy before one of you dies, well, better hope you don't come across somebody with more DPS than you.1 -
Merforum✭✭✭✭✭kathandira wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »kathandira wrote: »RampenSau324 wrote: »I´m sick of seeing the majority of my Deathrecaps being Procsets ( mostly 2-4 of the same set). Procsets are way to easy to Proc: 1 Poisen Injection will proc Hunters Venom and Sheer Venom at the same time. If there is 2 or 3 of them they just stack those procs over and over again. No way you are out healing that. Sure people say pruge it. Templar can purge it once every 3 sec.(due to the Tests in Cyro right now) just to get it reapplied the second after from a different person that didnt use Poisen Injection on you yet.
Procsets need to be nerfed or changed. In my opinion they should not stack that would do the trick I think. One Proc can be applied. If 2 ppl run Hunters Venom, which is daily business, only one should apply they other can´t. Maybe refreshing the proc, but stacking multiple Procs of the same set should not be case. Im sick of seeing my debuffs going like a Slotmachine!
No thanks. Proc Sets in PvE make theory crafting interesting.
They make pvp interesting too, if they make up part of the build... The issue we have at the moment is people wearing all proc sets. I wouldn't advocate a nerf in their power, but perhaps a shared cooldown to limit the appeal in stacking them.
That would still have a major effect on PvE. This is the pendulum we deal with. What is good for PvE and is not good for PvP, and the other way around. Balance between the two sides of the game will never ever happen. And when a nerf gets called from one side, the other side will suffer. There is no solution to this as ZoS refuses to make skills and sets behave differently in the two modes.
I think people are missing a very big reason many people are using 2 proc sets now, the only way to get 1 Mythic, 2 Monster, and 2 full 5 piece sets is with proc sets. The Mythic 1 piece is driving this change more than anything. But it is exactly the same when people used 2 monster, 1 full 5 piece, 1 proc set on back bar and maelstrom on front bar. Which is also better than just using 2 static 5 pieces on both bars and 1 monster set.
The game is much funner with all the extra options. ZOS should stop listening to the same PVPers who are always complaining when they can't instantly kill 20 dudes with streak spam, light attack exploit, sweeps spam, etc and instead of changing their tactics/gear they just want everything nerfed so they can play the same way.
The problem is Not that ppl are not able to kill the average proc abuser.(since Most of them are really Bad defensively)
The Problem rather is that literally any player, regardless of their skill level can slot venomous and sheer venom and can put like 2-3k inc dps on you by simply using 2 abilities.
1v1 that is not as much of a problem, since you can yourself Attack the proc User and kill them quickly or at least pressure them so they have to Go on defense (even tho that doesnt matter much cuz they can reapply that pressure with 2 skills...).
If you are 1vx tho you can have like 3+ ppl on you who all have 2/3 proc sets slotted and they keep you dotted up for like 5k+ dps.
That is simply ridiculous by itself and that is without seeing the difference in Player skill, where an absolute noob can dmg you as much as a Player who spend time working on their Set and Skill setup and who on top of that have to spend gcds for that dmg.
This attitude is why a lot of people dislike PVPers. How do you know all these people a noobs? Why do you think you are so good that you should be able to always kill 3-4-20 dudes? The game isn't that hard. Someone who played PVE for 3+ years can quickly with the right gear/skills to not get instantly beat by long time PVPers, as it should be. You have access to all the same gear/skills they have so if your 'skill' is so superior you should still be able to kill 3 dudes.
BTW the more I play PVP the more I can see that what you all call 'skill' are mostly exploits. For instance, light attack animation cancelling, it is not hard to do but it is definitely an exploit, giving multiple attacks in same second there should only be one attack. Also I am seeing the jump/shield exploit, where you can essentially take no damage from some ultimates just by jumping and block while in the air. Always wondered why PVPers in PVE would be jumping around all the time and now I know.
I just started playing BG not long ago and I can kill those proc people just as often as they kill me, even 2 at a time sometimes. BTW I am seeing 5+ surprise attack, whirlwind, blastbone, fury, magnum, sweep/jab and stuff like that in death recap way more than any proc stuff. I am totally against Nerfing anything that isn't actually broken like LA weaving, prefer people just try new things and find new ways to counter.
And actually tired of all the changes/nerfs to satisfy PVPer seem to almost always make PVE harder.Edited by Merforum on September 22, 2020 8:29PM0 -
Recapitated✭✭✭✭Recapitated wrote: »DTStormfox wrote: »I've already concluded that proc sets dominate PvP, especially no-cp PvP. One can easily stack proc sets and it requires literally NO skill to run those builds.
Take for example the Hunter's Venom dot from the Venomous Smite set. It is way too powerful.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/530462/greymoor-venomous-smite-vipers-sting-in-horns-of-the-reach-patch-when-it-was-considered-op
You have 10 seconds to remove it from yourself and 15 seconds before it can hit you again.
This set is garbage compared to 100% uptime DOTs that can be refreshed faster.
How do i remove this debuff as a stamsorc?
Everybody has access to Purge. No such thing as a zero magicka build.
Cost of purging: 5k off-resource
Cost of poison injection: 2.7k main resource
In no CP where proc sets are at their worst, you can cast it twice. If you're on a stamdk and you prebuff with volatile and cauterize, once, and then you lose access to major mending and your ability to uncloak the NB who put syvarra's & sheer venom on you in the first place. What's the plan 3 seconds later when they do the same thing again and when Syvarra's procs again another 4 seconds later?
My response was to the person asking how to remove Hunter's Venom. If you can't regenerate 5k magicka every 15 seconds, then I got some bad news.
OK, but then this conversation is becoming untethered from the real world where you don't get hit with 1 negative effect every 15 seconds5 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭relentless_turnip wrote: »They make pvp interesting too, if they make up part of the build... The issue we have at the moment is people wearing all proc sets. I wouldn't advocate a nerf in their power, but perhaps a shared cooldown to limit the appeal in stacking them.
I think that proc sets could be designed more like Widowmaker (e.g. with obvious and easily avoidable telegraphs) such that they are much less useful in PvP but are still fine to use in PvE theme builds since PvE mobs don't Roll-Dodge and love to stand in the red.1 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Recapitated wrote: »Recapitated wrote: »DTStormfox wrote: »I've already concluded that proc sets dominate PvP, especially no-cp PvP. One can easily stack proc sets and it requires literally NO skill to run those builds.
Take for example the Hunter's Venom dot from the Venomous Smite set. It is way too powerful.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/530462/greymoor-venomous-smite-vipers-sting-in-horns-of-the-reach-patch-when-it-was-considered-op
You have 10 seconds to remove it from yourself and 15 seconds before it can hit you again.
This set is garbage compared to 100% uptime DOTs that can be refreshed faster.
How do i remove this debuff as a stamsorc?
Everybody has access to Purge. No such thing as a zero magicka build.
Cost of purging: 5k off-resource
Cost of poison injection: 2.7k main resource
In no CP where proc sets are at their worst, you can cast it twice. If you're on a stamdk and you prebuff with volatile and cauterize, once, and then you lose access to major mending and your ability to uncloak the NB who put syvarra's & sheer venom on you in the first place. What's the plan 3 seconds later when they do the same thing again and when Syvarra's procs again another 4 seconds later?
My response was to the person asking how to remove Hunter's Venom. If you can't regenerate 5k magicka every 15 seconds, then I got some bad news.
OK, but then this conversation is becoming untethered from the real world where you don't get hit with 1 negative effect every 15 seconds
Well, it’s certainly nice that Purge can remove three bad effects at a time then, isn’t it? And that even 100% stamina builds can cast it at least twice before running out of magicka.
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JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anyone who says “slot the alliance war purge” as a counter to proc sets on a non optimized purge bot has no clue how applied pvp actually works. 5k mag to cleanse off 2 negative effects which may or may not be the ones you are trying to cleanse off and worse still can easily be reapplied for 2k or less stam is totally unreasonable. Especially when it takes up a valuable bar slot and precious mag for other tools that would give you more value3 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well, it’s certainly nice that Purge can remove three bad effects at a time then, isn’t it? And that even 100% stamina builds can cast it at least twice before running out of magicka.
I agree that there are ways to help mitigate the proc epidemic but telling a Stamina class to simply spam Efficient Purge is not the right answer.
Maybe that would work if you're in a duel but if you run inside a keep in Cyrodiil you are getting hit with 2-5 SV / DS Poison Injects from the randoms on the walls basically guaranteed and that is going to give you way more negative effects than Purge alone is able to handle.
This patch has made me very pro-Curse-Eater (even on Stamina classes like stamSorc) as a resource-free means of taking some of the worst edge off of the proc spam.1 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anyone who says “slot the alliance war purge” as a counter to proc sets on a non optimized purge bot has no clue how applied pvp actually works. 5k mag to cleanse off 2 negative effects which may or may not be the ones you are trying to cleanse off and worse still can easily be reapplied for 2k or less stam is totally unreasonable. Especially when it takes up a valuable bar slot and precious mag for other tools that would give you more value
Granted, you're going to die to good players, regardless. This discussion is primarily about fringe players crutching off Venomous Smite and Sheer Venom. Purging and countering with good offense will win in this situation the vast majority of the time.0 -
Recapitated✭✭✭✭Anyone who says “slot the alliance war purge” as a counter to proc sets on a non optimized purge bot has no clue how applied pvp actually works. 5k mag to cleanse off 2 negative effects which may or may not be the ones you are trying to cleanse off and worse still can easily be reapplied for 2k or less stam is totally unreasonable. Especially when it takes up a valuable bar slot and precious mag for other tools that would give you more value
Granted, you're going to die to good players, regardless. This discussion is primarily about fringe players crutching off Venomous Smite and Sheer Venom. Purging and countering with good offense will win in this situation the vast majority of the time.Recapitated wrote: »Recapitated wrote: »DTStormfox wrote: »I've already concluded that proc sets dominate PvP, especially no-cp PvP. One can easily stack proc sets and it requires literally NO skill to run those builds.
Take for example the Hunter's Venom dot from the Venomous Smite set. It is way too powerful.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/530462/greymoor-venomous-smite-vipers-sting-in-horns-of-the-reach-patch-when-it-was-considered-op
You have 10 seconds to remove it from yourself and 15 seconds before it can hit you again.
This set is garbage compared to 100% uptime DOTs that can be refreshed faster.
How do i remove this debuff as a stamsorc?
Everybody has access to Purge. No such thing as a zero magicka build.
Cost of purging: 5k off-resource
Cost of poison injection: 2.7k main resource
In no CP where proc sets are at their worst, you can cast it twice. If you're on a stamdk and you prebuff with volatile and cauterize, once, and then you lose access to major mending and your ability to uncloak the NB who put syvarra's & sheer venom on you in the first place. What's the plan 3 seconds later when they do the same thing again and when Syvarra's procs again another 4 seconds later?
My response was to the person asking how to remove Hunter's Venom. If you can't regenerate 5k magicka every 15 seconds, then I got some bad news.
OK, but then this conversation is becoming untethered from the real world where you don't get hit with 1 negative effect every 15 seconds
Well, it’s certainly nice that Purge can remove three bad effects at a time then, isn’t it? And that even 100% stamina builds can cast it at least twice before running out of magicka.
[snip] Poison Injection has room to apply 5 effects at once with poisons and it takes one GCD to reapply it, at which point you can cloak and wait for the procs in 5 seconds. By purging you've opened yourself a 1-second window of opportunity to combo the most evasive class in the game. The time spent on offense for the two playstyles are just not comparable, and the sustain is not comparable either.
On the bright side by using it you've gimped your survivability (stamdk) or sustain and mobility (stamsorc) against stat-based builds so there's that!
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Lunar on September 23, 2020 12:42PM4 -
Xargas13✭✭✭Proc sets shouldn't be allowed in PvP, if you get killed or kill by a proc set, it's not a compliment to player's skill, its a compliment to player's time put in farming the proc set nothing more. I don't know how many agree, but I prefer to play the game, instead of it doing things for me. My solution is not nerf, but alter them to a steady buff in PvP or block them completely, keep proc sets to PvE.4 -
volkeswagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭They need to separate skills and gear so they don't work the same in pve and pvp because sometimes you nerf a set because of pvp then it makes it worthless in pve. Seperate everything from pve and pvp as they are two animals and shouldn't have the same skills and gear.1 -
Crow_IX✭✭✭As long as you keep your pvp nerfs to Cyrodill I couldn't care less.
these changes are because of pve'rs coming to pvp, calling it stupid, and complaining about not being able to kill anyone and/or being full group wiped by a solo player. if your kind are going to come to pvp make sure you guys either learn how to pvp or don't complain and butcher it.RIP skill based PvP days. . .4 -
Crow_IX✭✭✭Starlight_Whisper wrote: »Those sets used to be trash because of pvp. Things are good now
false, sheer venom was always good, no one used it because it wasn't really significant without an additional proc set such as venomous hunter. on top of that venomous was already over performing when it was released and they buffed it even further. things are not good, the game is more frustrating in terms of skill base combat now more than ever, i would argue worse than the procalypes. on top of the poor skill gap we also have poor server performance. we are seeing the worse pvp we have ever had.RIP skill based PvP days. . .4 -
Jierdanit✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Merforum
This attitude is why a lot of people dislike PVPers. How do you know all these people a noobs? Why do you think you are so good that you should be able to always kill 3-4-20 dudes?
I never said that id expect to always be able to kill 3/4 dudes (dont even have to think about 20 lol) I just said that i dislike how total noobs are now able to deal way more dmg than they should.
And yes nearly all of them are noobs. There certainly are people who put together a well thought Out build and manage to do really Well 1v1 and even 1vX with an at least partly proc build, but Most of the proc Users are Just zerglings who finally got told to Slot venmous and sheer venom by someone and now Deal dmg without having to do anything but spam poison injection.
The game isn't that hard. Someone who played PVE for 3+ years can quickly with the right gear/skills to not get instantly beat by long time PVPers, as it should be.
Tbh from what ive seen there are a lot of pve players who Just have no clue about PvP and thus dont use the right Gear/skills.
And If they do they mostly still Lack PvP experience.
You have access to all the same gear/skills they have so if your 'skill' is so superior you should still be able to kill 3 dudes.
Yea sure i could slot those same sets as Well... You certainly seem Like you would Love cyro to Turn into a PI Spam fest where skill doesnt matter at all.
And on a more serious note, the proc setups Most zerglings use are really bad for 1v1 and even worse for 1vX, where you still much rather would use a stat setup over a setup entirely based on procs.
So those proc Sets being so strong jsut is another buff for zerglings.
BTW the more I play PVP the more I can see that what you all call 'skill' are mostly exploits. For instance, light attack animation cancelling, it is not hard to do but it is definitely an exploit, giving multiple attacks in same second there should only be one attack.
Weaving and Animation cancelling are no exploits. And currently the game is pretty much based around at least 2 attacks in 1 sec with Just la+skill.
Even more than 2 with delayed burst like sub or curse and with the lovely new proc sets proccing like 5 things at once with one Skill.
Also I am seeing the jump/shield exploit, where you can essentially take no damage from some ultimates just by jumping and block while in the air. Always wondered why PVPers in PVE would be jumping around all the time and now I know.
I actually dont know that existed and thus cant say anything about it.
I just generally jump quite a lot simply because i feel Like jumping lol.
I just started playing BG not long ago and I can kill those proc people just as often as they kill me, even 2 at a time sometimes. BTW I am seeing 5+ surprise attack, whirlwind, blastbone, fury, magnum, sweep/jab and stuff like that in death recap way more than any proc stuff.
1v1 or 1v2 nearly anyone who is experienced in PvP can kill people who Just use proc Sets and otherwise have no clue what theyre doing because they dont know how to properly defend themselves in a proper fight (Not being hit from 30m away while youre already in a fight) once their cloak is gone.
Though i really get way too many proc Sets on my recap. Ofc you still get a Lot of skills cuz not everyone is using proc Sets and even ppl who are still occasionaly have to use skills to proc them.
I would certainly welcome a death recap without 2 or 3 proc sets though.
I am totally against Nerfing anything that isn't actually broken like LA weaving, prefer people just try new things and find new ways to counter.
Proc Sets are broken and need a Nerf, because they give people the opportunity to so a Lot of dmg even If they know basically nothing about the game.
La weaving is not broken at all and has been confirmed to be a legit Game mechanic by the devs.
And pls Tell me how to counter that proc stuff.
And actually tired of all the changes/nerfs to satisfy PVPer seem to almost always make PVE harder.
I dont really think a nerf to proc Sets for PvP would make pve harder at all since in end Game pve basically No one is using proc Sets Like venomous or sheer venom.
Edited by Jierdanit on September 23, 2020 9:38AMPC/EU, StamSorc Main1
