It's a great META if you hate [snip]. There are so many of them to kill.

[Edited to remove Offensive Content]

Not enough proc sets tbh

Lol boomers? How many boomers play ESO?

There's something very wrong with using proc sets as a way to raise the skill floor, because it works off the idea that people don't (or don't want to) get better over time.

The reality is some people want to actually become more skilled and make their way up towards the ceiling — even if they never get there they want to improve on their previous results. But in order to get better you have to adjust the way you play so you can kill complete noobs, and you feel like you've made progress. Then you adjust further to kill slightly more skilled players. Etc. etc.

That doesn't work if complete noobs can use one-trick pony builds to stack 4-6 effects on you from range in one GCD and then turtle/evade while you die. You're not going to win that fight anytime soon, so even if you get more skilled nothing will seem like it actually works. Really you will struggle to become more skilled because you won't be able to say "when I did X I was always losing, but now when I do Y I can at least kill noobs".

Right now, if you're very new to PVP, not only are you going to get pummeled by average and good players, but unless you're also cheesing yourself you'll continue to lose to bad players when you make your way past mediocre and up into the average bracket. So you can either cheese yourself and not learn to play the game, or have an even more frustrating early progression experience than the one that existed before the proc meta dropped.

The solution, rather than thinking of skill as an unchanging property of each player, is to make the game mechanics less opaque so players can actually get good. Right now if you started with a magsorc and you head into pvp you have no idea how other classes are designed — what their weaknesses and strengths are — and you don't even know how your toolkit synergizes; you don't know that your defense comes from staying mobile and stacking shields. You don't know that your offense centers around timing curse and frags together. You don't even know that some skills are useless before you morph them because the game never tells you what you'll get for investing a skill point and leveling that skill to rank 4.

shimm wrote: »

Lol boomers? How many boomers play ESO?

You would be surprised how many boomers play ESO. I am one.

Unfortunately there's more proc sets coming up in the next dlc, with one being what looks like a stamina version of vicious death along with a new mythic that might heal proc users for 15% of the damage they deal out. Just DoT up and kill everybody and never die!

I completely agree with you as this game has devolved into proc wars with 0 comment on the balance issues of their less than 1 month old patch and the plan to release more of these things into players hands.

First of all I would like to say that if this thread shoehorns the proc set discussion into a boomer vs zoomer framework it's going to be just incredible.

Merforum wrote: »

Maybe it is just that all these 'low skilled' players you used to kill easily did "GIT GUD' and are wearing/using the proper set/skills now. Maybe it is time for you all to 'GIT BETTER'.

You can tell when a player is not good. Like, in the last patch Snipe spammers got kills here or there piggybacking off someone else's work but if you decided to pressure them you could outright farm them; they didn't know how to roll/cloak like melee combo NBs and sometimes they just let you kill them while trying to get one or two more snipes off on someone else.

Some of those players are now wearing proc sets. Defensively they play the same, offensively they punch well above their weight. They wouldn't be performing nearly as well with stat sets, and that's the difference.

Not sure why you think animation cancelling is an exploit. The game is built around one ability every GCD and one light attack in between. People who do that aren't exploiting anything that you don't have access to. There's nothing to balance, there's nothing cheesy about it; there's just whether your limitations allow you to keep up. If it bugs you that a player who is more agile with their KB & mouse beats you, then I don't understand what it is exactly that you're proud of when you get a kill. Like, where exactly does skill fit in to you?

IMO what looks more like an exploit is the number of debuffs and DOTs you can apply in 1 GCD using proc sets (Skoria/Sheer/Venomous say on top of Poison Injection). DKs are supposed to be the DOT class and that works out to what, 2 DOTs in GCD at most with Venomous Claw? You have to be on the offensive for 2-3 GCDs before you even think about dswing and executioner on a dot stamdk, which means you have to expose yourself to danger to put people in danger. Same thing with templars btw, they're wide open while they channel jabs.

It's obviously not an exploit since it's intended, but with proc sets your ability to threaten players and the risk you take to do that or not commensurate, and that means skill pays off way more with some sets than with others.

Jaraal wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

But even with those advantages and in non-CP there are heaps of awful NBs attempting to crutch on the Sheer Venom / Venomous Smite combo and failing miserably at it.

Yeah just two DOTs is way too easy to cleanse. Need to stack Stampede (guaranteed crit to proc VS set), Maelstrom battle axe bleed, heavy weapons bleed, double DOT weapon poison, and Cripple for a total of 8 dots. Throw in a guild DOT for 9 if you're fast enough. Or replace Sheer Venom with Syvarra's Scales if you don't want to run an execute.

Eh, poisons + cripple can be run with SV/VS and you should be able to cloak and force a crit with these NB builds anyway. Poison Injection is its own DOT so that makes up for the MA 2H bleed. The only thing that's missing is the Heavy Weapons bleed and that's if you're lucky anyway, whereas Poison Injection will proc SV twice if it stays on and gives more opportunities to proc poisons, correct me if I'm wrong.

@Jaraal I think that @Recapitated said it best when he noted that these sets allow players to offensively bunch above their weight but it doesn't automatically make a bad player suddenly good at the game. Most of the players using these sets are quite bad (which is why they gravitate toward FoTM YouTube builds) and are easily confounded by basically anything that you do short of instantly dying. If a skilled player is using these sets, then sure, you're probably dead, but thankfully most good players have honor enough not to go that route.

@Jeremy I agree with you (and most others in here) that the procs are out of hand but that doesn't mean that there aren't ways to cope with it, especially when it's a low-tier Poison Inject spammer. Your prediction about grouped BGs is probably going to come true (and hopefully with the predicted backlash...) but those types of organized groups are going to be trouble no matter what they run since they usually are already skilled players on comms running min-maxed builds.

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

@Jaraal I think that @Recapitated said it best when he noted that these sets allow players to offensively bunch above their weight but it doesn't automatically make a bad player suddenly good at the game. Most of the players using these sets are quite bad (which is why they gravitate toward FoTM YouTube builds) and are easily confounded by basically anything that you do short of instantly dying. If a skilled player is using these sets, then sure, you're probably dead, but thankfully most good players have honor enough not to go that route.

@Jeremy I agree with you (and most others in here) that the procs are out of hand but that doesn't mean that there aren't ways to cope with it, especially when it's a low-tier Poison Inject spammer. Your prediction about grouped BGs is probably going to come true (and hopefully with the predicted backlash...) but those types of organized groups are going to be trouble no matter what they run since they usually are already skilled players on comms running min-maxed builds.

There really aren't that many ways to cope with the absurd amount of damage being thrown around by all these proc sets in my experience. Outside of adopting the same strategies and hoping you get the jump on others instead of them on you... I've only found maybe a couple of ways, and even even those are problematic. So I would say the strategies available for players to defend themselves against these insane damage bursts are severely limited to put it mildly (note I'm talking about no CP only). Just having a purge ability equipped isn't going to cut it. I can tell you that.

In respect to organized groups always being trouble in battlegrounds, that's of course true. But I was merely speaking from an amusement perspective. Because in the current environment it's just going to be hilarious to see how quickly an organized group synchronizing their attack is going to dispatch what ever unlucky person is on the other end of their combined wrath. It's also going to highlight just how ridiculous the damage is on this game right now better than anything else will. Everyone better be packing immovable potions I can tell you that. Because any kind of stun will be tantamount to instant death. It all sounds like so much fun.

Those sets used to be trash because of pvp. Things are good now