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This just shows how little ZOS Cares about the veteran players
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thegreat_one✭✭✭✭and meanwhile performance is still ***, all my Pve Content has delays or desyncs.
That used to be my safe place when Cyro was terrible.
And Yes, I didn't do vMA because I didn't want to put the work in for the weapon, It's not that important.
But when they made it so you could get normal weapons, I did it twice. First time I got the Bow, Second I got the Inferno.
2 runs, and done.
And I never forget to rub it in peoples faces who have done 40 + normal runs to not get the item they are looking for.
Bottom line is, Zos is losing regular committed players. Streamers have abandoned them and they need people who are fresh and don't fully understand why this game is dying.
I can't wait to here about the QoL stuff that will make subbing irrelevant,8 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »Why not see it from another perspective? They try to bring everyone closer togetherDo you wish to be closer with people that dont wanna work for success but have everything handed them over for whatever reason?Daemons_Bane wrote: »Who says they don't want to work.?
I noted that @TwinLamps did speak to this; and put great emphasis on a particular learning-and-playing style. I think that while I don't agree with all the nerfs-and-tweaking (and I greatly enjoyed @Alcast in his various commentaries about "interns" - I'm not gonna explain it, go watch a few of his "patch notes" videos - they are razor-sharp-wittedly delightful).
Anyway. As I've mentioned elsewhere in the forums, I'm a noob to MMO's; came here to "Morrowind with friends" (love it, thank you very much) and it took me about 2 years to really "get" to move in combat, and a bit longer than that to have ongoing situational awareness of exactly where the "red" is.
For a looong time we (the group o' four that I play with - only two of whom I would describe as "highly skilled" players - and no I am NOT one of them) had put together a group of our "best" most optimized characters and it was with that group we would do the "hardest" content (that the four of us, could handle, and I'll say right now that the two top players can solo most vet content).
It's only been in the last...oh couple of months, that we have tried some of the harder group vet content...and during this last IC event, tried it with "who we happened to want to play" because we didn't have much time, and hey, the bosses will still drop reward boxes, so it's all cool.
We did it. We were all pretty shocked...and pretty happy. And this was because over the months of trying, exploring "unorthodox builds" and having fun, and thus not getting caught up in the "hair on fire" too-stressed-to-be-learning, we were... learning.
For me, most PvP is like....going into a vet dungeon with a 5th level character. Not enough skills, not enough passives, and no matter what gear they are using - gonna die, and do it too fast to learn anything.
The jump from "normal" to "vet" situations in many ways duplicates this. The mechanics in normal, basically don't teach me anything (in most situations).
I'm willing to work, but I learn some things at a different pace, or in a different way.
learning style disparity.
That problem isn't some damage disparity, it's a knowledge and effort disparity .
Fixed it for you.
Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis2 -
Drdeath20✭✭✭✭✭
✭i find elite players, pve or pvp to be foolish if you ask me. In both cases they cling tightly to a system they know pushes players away from it and unbalances the game, while complaining constantly about performance, things being too easy etc, skill the lack of it and my personal favorite "no one wants to learn".
you should be wanting them to fix it .
How is timing out a rotation soo that you are always busy (light attack weaving) ,keeping up optimal use of DoTs and build/skill synergy a system that pushes players away?6 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The issue is not the raw power new players have compared to a veteran but their skill.
I know so many CP 810's that struggle to push 8k DPS. They have the gear, they have the abilities, they have the CP, but they didn't know how to make it all work together. After I worked with one of my friends I managed to help her go from 4-6k DPS to 10k DPS with just having her practice some on a target dummy for 10 minutes.
Buffing low skilled players and nerfing high skilled players is the wrong way to go about this ZOS! You need to more effectively train them and show them how to improve. Don't nerf the skill ceiling as all that does is leave a very bitter taste in people's mouth.Edited by Vevvev on September 20, 2020 4:57PMPC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK12 -
MincVinyl✭✭✭✭✭What zos says there has to be taken with a grain of salt.
When they say that people who are not more optimized, they are taking about the players that are not running the most efficient major minor buffs compared to a veteran player running the most efficient maj/minor buffs.
They are comparing and changing the values of the major minor buffs because they are drastically unbalanced. Its no surprise that major protection is far more important than something like major endurance. Two major buffs should be an equal trade off.
To put it into perspective:
Major endurance potion = full uptime
Major expedition pot = 15s
Minor Protection pot = 15s
Where would this land Major protection if we were to consider these balanced based on duration instead of value.
All zos is doing is saying the value of one major buff should be an equal trade off of another. Instead of how currently veteran players who know which buffs are exceedingly stronger having a simple knowledge gap over newer players.
Edit: I will agree with you that almost every time a statement like this is written, it is done rather poorly and it makes people freak out for little reason. Remember the light and heavy attack changes notes? The first 3 paragraphs stated 'Our game is good because it is fun and fast paced........We want to make it so slower apm players are equivalent to higher apm players" Anything following those statements got ignored because they instantly got the veteran community angry. Which lead to multiple very good changes to be forgotten about.Edited by MincVinyl on September 20, 2020 5:14PM1 -
Rungar✭✭✭✭✭
✭
[/quote]
How is timing out a rotation soo that you are always busy (light attack weaving) ,keeping up optimal use of DoTs and build/skill synergy a system that pushes players away?[/quote]
many players dont take to it and it causes performance problems. What more do you need?Old Rungar always gives what's needed.
Current ideas for ESO improvement
Rungar's Mystical Emporium of Ideas junkyard3 -
Drdeath20✭✭✭✭✭
✭What zos says there has to be taken with a grain of salt.
When they say that people who are not more optimized, they are taking about the players that are not running the most efficient major minor buffs compared to a veteran player running the most efficient maj/minor buffs.
They are comparing and changing the values of the major minor buffs because they are drastically unbalanced. Its no surprise that major protection is far more important than something like major endurance. Two major buffs should be an equal trade off.
To put it into perspective:
Major endurance potion = full uptime
Major expedition pot = 15s
Minor Protection pot = 15s
Where would this land Major protection if we were to consider these balanced based on duration instead of value.
All zos is doing is saying the value of one major buff should be an equal trade off of another. Instead of how currently veteran players who know which buffs are exceedingly stronger having a simple knowledge gap over newer players.
Edit: I will agree with you that almost every time a statement like this is written, it is done rather poorly and it makes people freak out for little reason. Remember the light and heavy attack changes notes? The first 3 paragraphs stated 'Our game is good because it is fun and fast paced........We want to make it so slower apm players are equivalent to higher apm players" Anything following those statements got ignored because they instantly got the veteran community angry. Which lead to multiple very good changes to be forgotten about.
Your forgetting another value and that is how easy it is to attain.
Major endurance at 45 seconds is not equal to major protection at 15secs but major endurance is easy to find on a potion that gives major brutality, and major savagery where major protection is generally a standalone buff.1 -
Drdeath20✭✭✭✭✭
✭
How is timing out a rotation soo that you are always busy (light attack weaving) ,keeping up optimal use of DoTs and build/skill synergy a system that pushes players away?[/quote]
many players dont take to it and it causes performance problems. What more do you need? [/quote]
A game for all is a game for no one.3 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Do the players who play this game for years and try to optimize as much as possible really mean so little to you that you try to make all their work nearly worthless by bringing new players closer to them every patch without them having to do anything?
We (veteran players) got the answer to this question, when they "took away" our arena weapons (which we earned in vet DSA and vet MA), and they gave these weapons to every newbie (who took a bit of time to run normal arenas after Greymoor release)
We were left with "normal" weapons, as if we never did veteran arenas before Greymoor.
They showed complete disrespect to old players this way. So, even if it's very sad and discouraging, new bad decisions regarding veteran players are only expected
Also remember, for 2 years we didn't even had any CP cap increase - so we were not progressing, just to make it easier for new players to reach CP cap
Your arena weapons are still there. No one took anything away.
True, but they just gave away the weapons we took time and effort to obtain. Do you think that is fair?
1. life is not fair.
2. while i do think that they should have upgraded existing weapons, this is a pretty common thing where early adopters get to pay more, or go through more effort to have something sooner, that eventually most people have much easier time getting... eventually. tech goes down in price as well as becomes more common. things that used to be difficult, become easier through sheer experience of doing them and refining techniques. so on, so forth. I mean... back when 3d printers were first developed, even the simplest one cost an arm and a leg and produced models that needed a lot of post production work to make them usable. yet today, i can pay $200 and print resin models quickly and easily that require virtually no post production refinement. (3d printing is on my mind specifically because it was a birthday gift I got this year, but it applies to pretty much anything you can think of)
so... while it may not feel or seem fair. its... a fact of life nonetheless.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***5 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Do the players who play this game for years and try to optimize as much as possible really mean so little to you that you try to make all their work nearly worthless by bringing new players closer to them every patch without them having to do anything?
We (veteran players) got the answer to this question, when they "took away" our arena weapons (which we earned in vet DSA and vet MA), and they gave these weapons to every newbie (who took a bit of time to run normal arenas after Greymoor release) We were left with "normal" weapons, as if we never did veteran arenas before Greymoor.
They showed complete disrespect to old players this way. So, even if it's very sad and discouraging, new bad decisions regarding veteran players are only expected
Also remember, for 2 years we didn't even had any CP cap increase - so we were not progressing, just to make it easier for new players to reach CP cap
Your arena weapons are still there. No one took anything away.
True, but they just gave away the weapons we took time and effort to obtain. Do you think that is fair?
1. life is not fair.
2. while i do think that they should have upgraded existing weapons, this is a pretty common thing where early adopters get to pay more, or go through more effort to have something sooner, that eventually most people have much easier time getting... eventually. tech goes down in price as well as becomes more common. things that used to be difficult, become easier through sheer experience of doing them and refining techniques. so on, so forth. I mean... back when 3d printers were first developed, even the simplest one cost an arm and a leg and produced models that needed a lot of post production work to make them usable. yet today, i can pay $200 and print resin models quickly and easily that require virtually no post production refinement. (3d printing is on my mind specifically because it was a birthday gift I got this year, but it applies to pretty much anything you can think of)
so... while it may not feel or seem fair. its... a fact of life nonetheless.
Indeed it is, just like optimized groups and individuals building accordingly have an unfair advantage over those who don't. in PvE, and in PvP (battlegrounds for example), wrt weaving and loadouts too, so suck it up if you don't like it, right? I agree 100%; can't fault your point at all.
Edited by mairwen85 on September 20, 2020 6:21PM0 -
Rungar✭✭✭✭✭
✭
how are you enjoying the cooldowns?Edited by Rungar on September 20, 2020 6:25PMOld Rungar always gives what's needed.
Current ideas for ESO improvement
Rungar's Mystical Emporium of Ideas junkyard0 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Definitely interested in seeing how they manage to achieve "Decreasing Damage Done" while "Increasing Damage Taken" since, at least in PvP (where this language seems most relevant) the one necessarily impacts the other.
@VaranisArano Indeed. If history is our guide, it tells us that organized groups and their elite theorycrafters understand the game far better than the developers themselves and will swat aside these changes with ease.BisDasBlutGefriert wrote: »Does anyone else see the Freud and Nietzsche references/ideals in some of these posts?
Yes, I do.
But I think, as far as PvP goes, that the Thucydides quip that "The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must" will always carry the day.1 -
Sergykid✭✭✭✭✭
✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »Why not see it from another perspective? They try to bring everyone closer together
I do not think that "the new player argument works". Many of my friends are leaving the game after 10 hours because the game is easy for them. They were bored because the game was braindeath(they told me that). This is not only the story of my friands. Many gamers who tried ESO are saying that the game was boring because was too easy.
did they try vBRP and thought it's too easy? if they judge a MMO based of overland content, we're better off of them really. And even overland speaking, can they solo world bosses and say they're easy? depends on the world boss of course, but you can't coat everything as "too easy" based on your first 10 hours.-PC EU- / battlegrounds on my youtube6 -
Major_Lag✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Let's see. A thought experiment:YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Definitely interested in seeing how they manage to achieve "Decreasing Damage Done" while "Increasing Damage Taken" since, at least in PvP (where this language seems most relevant) the one necessarily impacts the other.- decrease scaling of damage tooltips based on offensive stats (and/or make penetration less effective or less accessible) - this takes care of the "decrease damage done" part,
- decrease effectiveness of sources of damage mitigation (armor values, blocking, shields, defensive sets, % reductions from CP and Minor/Major Protection), which does the job in the "increase damage taken" department.
Of course that does not account for proc set damage and any other sources of damage that do not scale from offensive stats, those would have to be tackled separately.
With the right amount of numbers tweaking (highly unlikely, given ZOS' track record on this subject, but I digress), PvP would be largely unaffected while PvE could be affected to an arbitrarily chosen degree.1 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Do the players who play this game for years and try to optimize as much as possible really mean so little to you that you try to make all their work nearly worthless by bringing new players closer to them every patch without them having to do anything?
We (veteran players) got the answer to this question, when they "took away" our arena weapons (which we earned in vet DSA and vet MA), and they gave these weapons to every newbie (who took a bit of time to run normal arenas after Greymoor release) We were left with "normal" weapons, as if we never did veteran arenas before Greymoor.
They showed complete disrespect to old players this way. So, even if it's very sad and discouraging, new bad decisions regarding veteran players are only expected
Also remember, for 2 years we didn't even had any CP cap increase - so we were not progressing, just to make it easier for new players to reach CP cap
Your arena weapons are still there. No one took anything away.
True, but they just gave away the weapons we took time and effort to obtain. Do you think that is fair?
1. life is not fair.
2. while i do think that they should have upgraded existing weapons, this is a pretty common thing where early adopters get to pay more, or go through more effort to have something sooner, that eventually most people have much easier time getting... eventually. tech goes down in price as well as becomes more common. things that used to be difficult, become easier through sheer experience of doing them and refining techniques. so on, so forth. I mean... back when 3d printers were first developed, even the simplest one cost an arm and a leg and produced models that needed a lot of post production work to make them usable. yet today, i can pay $200 and print resin models quickly and easily that require virtually no post production refinement. (3d printing is on my mind specifically because it was a birthday gift I got this year, but it applies to pretty much anything you can think of)
so... while it may not feel or seem fair. its... a fact of life nonetheless.
Indeed it is, just like optimized groups and individuals building accordingly have an unfair advantage over those who don't. in PvE, and in PvP (battlegrounds for example), wrt weaving and loadouts too, so suck it up if you don't like it, right? I agree 100%; can't fault your point at all.
except group that took time and effort to optimize their setups is NOT an unfair advantage. the unfair advantage comes from the way this game's combat is structured. anyone can take time and farm up CP and gear sets. not everyone has reflexes and muscle memory to weave as effectively. even with practice - the ceiling is different from person to person. and removing minor/major buffs is NOT going to fix it, on the contrary, what it WILL do is reduce the performance of the people who ARE minmaxing their gear to compensate for not being able to execute rotations as well. high performing players? will continue to perform highly. removal of stacking buffs, contrary to all of your discontent, will NOT change that and you will STILL significantly outperform everyone else. which is what I was also getting at.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***1 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Do the players who play this game for years and try to optimize as much as possible really mean so little to you that you try to make all their work nearly worthless by bringing new players closer to them every patch without them having to do anything?
We (veteran players) got the answer to this question, when they "took away" our arena weapons (which we earned in vet DSA and vet MA), and they gave these weapons to every newbie (who took a bit of time to run normal arenas after Greymoor release) We were left with "normal" weapons, as if we never did veteran arenas before Greymoor.
They showed complete disrespect to old players this way. So, even if it's very sad and discouraging, new bad decisions regarding veteran players are only expected
Also remember, for 2 years we didn't even had any CP cap increase - so we were not progressing, just to make it easier for new players to reach CP cap
Your arena weapons are still there. No one took anything away.
True, but they just gave away the weapons we took time and effort to obtain. Do you think that is fair?
I don’t expect a free upgrade to a new phone when a new one is introduced, even after all the time and effort I put in to get one.
I don’t expect a free upgrade to the latest computer processor when a new one is introduced, even after all the time and effort I put in to get one.
I don’t expect a free upgrade to the latest suv when a new one is introduced, even after all the time and effort I put in to get one.
And I don’t expect a free upgrade to the latest gear when new ones are introduced, even after all the time and effort I put in to get my previous gear.
So yes, I think it is perfectly fair.
I play dungeons and trials for fun. It’s a game after all. If I get gear, great! If not there is next time, to me it really does not matter.
If running group content is a chore for you, why run them? And if you stop running them, why do you need upgrades?
Just have fun and stop worrying about the gear other people have.Edited by BlueRaven on September 20, 2020 8:00PM3 -
Gulnagel✭✭✭✭I've been scrolling through the pages, but I still don't understand how ZoS is planning to even the gap. If 1 player only uses 1-2 skills, and another player are using 10 skills, isn't it obvious Who Comes out at top?
Only thing that could be done us to make everything about passives, and then give every class fewer but classrelated skills, and the ones you unlock on higher level are the better ones, so it will be harder to choose the wrong skills, like Ffxiv. And remove 90% of the ingame sets.
That will make the game playable for all, but also remove the pride for the veterans because achievements will not be valued anymore since eneryone can do it with a little bit of practise.
Or an I missing something, have ZoS said anything defenitive?
Eso is a completely different game to ffxiv, wow ect. I guess much of that attracts players, but I do agree the gap between dps is to great, never seen such a big gap before in any mmo.0 -
carlos424✭✭✭✭✭Do the players who play this game for years and try to optimize as much as possible really mean so little to you that you try to make all their work nearly worthless by bringing new players closer to them every patch without them having to do anything?
We (veteran players) got the answer to this question, when they "took away" our arena weapons (which we earned in vet DSA and vet MA), and they gave these weapons to every newbie (who took a bit of time to run normal arenas after Greymoor release) We were left with "normal" weapons, as if we never did veteran arenas before Greymoor.
They showed complete disrespect to old players this way. So, even if it's very sad and discouraging, new bad decisions regarding veteran players are only expected
Also remember, for 2 years we didn't even had any CP cap increase - so we were not progressing, just to make it easier for new players to reach CP cap
Your arena weapons are still there. No one took anything away.
True, but they just gave away the weapons we took time and effort to obtain. Do you think that is fair?
1. life is not fair.
2. while i do think that they should have upgraded existing weapons, this is a pretty common thing where early adopters get to pay more, or go through more effort to have something sooner, that eventually most people have much easier time getting... eventually. tech goes down in price as well as becomes more common. things that used to be difficult, become easier through sheer experience of doing them and refining techniques. so on, so forth. I mean... back when 3d printers were first developed, even the simplest one cost an arm and a leg and produced models that needed a lot of post production work to make them usable. yet today, i can pay $200 and print resin models quickly and easily that require virtually no post production refinement. (3d printing is on my mind specifically because it was a birthday gift I got this year, but it applies to pretty much anything you can think of)
so... while it may not feel or seem fair. its... a fact of life nonetheless.
Lol. I’m glad you’ve been given many things in life.0 -
carlos424✭✭✭✭✭Do the players who play this game for years and try to optimize as much as possible really mean so little to you that you try to make all their work nearly worthless by bringing new players closer to them every patch without them having to do anything?
We (veteran players) got the answer to this question, when they "took away" our arena weapons (which we earned in vet DSA and vet MA), and they gave these weapons to every newbie (who took a bit of time to run normal arenas after Greymoor release) We were left with "normal" weapons, as if we never did veteran arenas before Greymoor.
They showed complete disrespect to old players this way. So, even if it's very sad and discouraging, new bad decisions regarding veteran players are only expected
Also remember, for 2 years we didn't even had any CP cap increase - so we were not progressing, just to make it easier for new players to reach CP cap
Your arena weapons are still there. No one took anything away.
True, but they just gave away the weapons we took time and effort to obtain. Do you think that is fair?
I don’t expect a free upgrade to a new phone when a new one is introduced, even after all the time and effort I put in to get one.
I don’t expect a free upgrade to the latest computer processor when a new one is introduced, even after all the time and effort I put in to get one.
I don’t expect a free upgrade to the latest suv when a new one is introduced, even after all the time and effort I put in to get one.
And I don’t expect a free upgrade to the latest gear when new ones are introduced, even after all the time and effort I put in to get my previous gear.
So yes, I think it is perfectly fair.
I play dungeons and trials for fun. It’s a game after all. If I get gear, great! If not there is next time, to me it really does not matter.
If running group content is a chore for you, why run them? And if you stop running them, why do you need upgrades?
Just have fun and stop worrying about the gear other people have.
So it’s ok if I paid $1000 for my new iphone and then someone comes along and is given the same SAME one for $100. No upgrade, no depreciation, the same phone. You might be upset too if you paid $1000. I guess upset is the wrong word. I really don’t care. I just don’t like the argument of “free upgrades”. I think that giving bis gear to players will end up making the entire player base, as a whole, less skillful, since they won’t have had to work for it.Edited by carlos424 on September 20, 2020 8:49PM5 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Do the players who play this game for years and try to optimize as much as possible really mean so little to you that you try to make all their work nearly worthless by bringing new players closer to them every patch without them having to do anything?
We (veteran players) got the answer to this question, when they "took away" our arena weapons (which we earned in vet DSA and vet MA), and they gave these weapons to every newbie (who took a bit of time to run normal arenas after Greymoor release) We were left with "normal" weapons, as if we never did veteran arenas before Greymoor.
They showed complete disrespect to old players this way. So, even if it's very sad and discouraging, new bad decisions regarding veteran players are only expected
Also remember, for 2 years we didn't even had any CP cap increase - so we were not progressing, just to make it easier for new players to reach CP cap
Your arena weapons are still there. No one took anything away.
True, but they just gave away the weapons we took time and effort to obtain. Do you think that is fair?
I don’t expect a free upgrade to a new phone when a new one is introduced, even after all the time and effort I put in to get one.
I don’t expect a free upgrade to the latest computer processor when a new one is introduced, even after all the time and effort I put in to get one.
I don’t expect a free upgrade to the latest suv when a new one is introduced, even after all the time and effort I put in to get one.
And I don’t expect a free upgrade to the latest gear when new ones are introduced, even after all the time and effort I put in to get my previous gear.
So yes, I think it is perfectly fair.
I play dungeons and trials for fun. It’s a game after all. If I get gear, great! If not there is next time, to me it really does not matter.
If running group content is a chore for you, why run them? And if you stop running them, why do you need upgrades?
Just have fun and stop worrying about the gear other people have.
So it’s ok if I paid $1000 for my new iphone and then someone comes along and is given the same SAME one for $100. No upgrade, no depreciation, the same phone. You might be upset too if you paid $1000. I guess upset is the wrong word. I really don’t care. I just don’t like the argument of “free upgrades”. I think that giving bis gear to players will end up making the entire player base, as a whole, less skillful, since they won’t have had to work for it.
You should ask Rich Lambert how he thinks about that. Heh.4 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Do the players who play this game for years and try to optimize as much as possible really mean so little to you that you try to make all their work nearly worthless by bringing new players closer to them every patch without them having to do anything?
We (veteran players) got the answer to this question, when they "took away" our arena weapons (which we earned in vet DSA and vet MA), and they gave these weapons to every newbie (who took a bit of time to run normal arenas after Greymoor release) We were left with "normal" weapons, as if we never did veteran arenas before Greymoor.
They showed complete disrespect to old players this way. So, even if it's very sad and discouraging, new bad decisions regarding veteran players are only expected
Also remember, for 2 years we didn't even had any CP cap increase - so we were not progressing, just to make it easier for new players to reach CP cap
Your arena weapons are still there. No one took anything away.
True, but they just gave away the weapons we took time and effort to obtain. Do you think that is fair?
1. life is not fair.
2. while i do think that they should have upgraded existing weapons, this is a pretty common thing where early adopters get to pay more, or go through more effort to have something sooner, that eventually most people have much easier time getting... eventually. tech goes down in price as well as becomes more common. things that used to be difficult, become easier through sheer experience of doing them and refining techniques. so on, so forth. I mean... back when 3d printers were first developed, even the simplest one cost an arm and a leg and produced models that needed a lot of post production work to make them usable. yet today, i can pay $200 and print resin models quickly and easily that require virtually no post production refinement. (3d printing is on my mind specifically because it was a birthday gift I got this year, but it applies to pretty much anything you can think of)
so... while it may not feel or seem fair. its... a fact of life nonetheless.
Lol. I’m glad you’ve been given many things in life.
that's the thing. i haven't. a birthday gift of technology that existed for DECADES that is now been made more accessible - does not change that. its how I know that life is not fair. but feeling resentful of people doesn't fix that.
do you resent people who have acess to chapters you paid for a year, two years, whatever ago by simply subscribing? or do you realize that its necessary for the health of the game which includes getting new blood, new players, to make the game as a whole more accessible to people without making them face the ever growing price tag of content?
do you resent game of the year editions that cost half as much as the base game on launch did? or do you accept that such is the price of being an early adoptor and you can CHOSE to either get something sooner, or wait.
its not like you can just walk into MA and be handed a staff. people still need to do it on normal, they still have rng to deal with and guess what? many players, again due to how combat is structured in this game, will have similar experience of wiping in normal that you did in vet. yes, its become a bit more accessible to more people. YEARS later.
dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***1 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Do the players who play this game for years and try to optimize as much as possible really mean so little to you that you try to make all their work nearly worthless by bringing new players closer to them every patch without them having to do anything?
We (veteran players) got the answer to this question, when they "took away" our arena weapons (which we earned in vet DSA and vet MA), and they gave these weapons to every newbie (who took a bit of time to run normal arenas after Greymoor release) We were left with "normal" weapons, as if we never did veteran arenas before Greymoor.
They showed complete disrespect to old players this way. So, even if it's very sad and discouraging, new bad decisions regarding veteran players are only expected
Also remember, for 2 years we didn't even had any CP cap increase - so we were not progressing, just to make it easier for new players to reach CP cap
Your arena weapons are still there. No one took anything away.
True, but they just gave away the weapons we took time and effort to obtain. Do you think that is fair?
I don’t expect a free upgrade to a new phone when a new one is introduced, even after all the time and effort I put in to get one.
I don’t expect a free upgrade to the latest computer processor when a new one is introduced, even after all the time and effort I put in to get one.
I don’t expect a free upgrade to the latest suv when a new one is introduced, even after all the time and effort I put in to get one.
And I don’t expect a free upgrade to the latest gear when new ones are introduced, even after all the time and effort I put in to get my previous gear.
So yes, I think it is perfectly fair.
I play dungeons and trials for fun. It’s a game after all. If I get gear, great! If not there is next time, to me it really does not matter.
If running group content is a chore for you, why run them? And if you stop running them, why do you need upgrades?
Just have fun and stop worrying about the gear other people have.
So it’s ok if I paid $1000 for my new iphone and then someone comes along and is given the same SAME one for $100. No upgrade, no depreciation, the same phone. You might be upset too if you paid $1000. I guess upset is the wrong word. I really don’t care. I just don’t like the argument of “free upgrades”. I think that giving bis gear to players will end up making the entire player base, as a whole, less skillful, since they won’t have had to work for it.
you realize that you can do that right? you pay 1k for your new iphone. years later, someone else can and does pay 100 for it, because new iphone models have been released since then. your example proves why this resentment is pointless.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***4 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭also, a reminder. yet again.
length of time in the game =/= automatically equal higher skill or a min/maxing player. there are plenty of players who have been playing since launch that are on a lower end of skill, while players who started later - have gotten farther.
so instead of veteran players, maybe use hardcore players or something as complaint in OP.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***4 -
craybest✭✭✭✭✭Some of you guys are really exaggerating things.
I used to have a decent build , I used light attacks, strong attacks, skills, bar swaps, evades, blocks, interrupts, etc. I did okay I open world and delves and it was hard on public dungeons sometimes.
Now I follow a guide, changed skills, equipment for it's and it makes a HUGE difference. Public dungeons are so much easier now!
Maybe there shouldn't be such a difference, it's not like I didn't know how to play, or I was only light attacking enemies, stop trying to make it look like people not doing the meta are only people who light attacks and doing "not the bare minimum" i mean wtf?
I'm all for more sets being useful and not having to follow the meta to be good at the game.1 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Do the players who play this game for years and try to optimize as much as possible really mean so little to you that you try to make all their work nearly worthless by bringing new players closer to them every patch without them having to do anything?
We (veteran players) got the answer to this question, when they "took away" our arena weapons (which we earned in vet DSA and vet MA), and they gave these weapons to every newbie (who took a bit of time to run normal arenas after Greymoor release) We were left with "normal" weapons, as if we never did veteran arenas before Greymoor.
They showed complete disrespect to old players this way. So, even if it's very sad and discouraging, new bad decisions regarding veteran players are only expected
Also remember, for 2 years we didn't even had any CP cap increase - so we were not progressing, just to make it easier for new players to reach CP cap
Your arena weapons are still there. No one took anything away.
True, but they just gave away the weapons we took time and effort to obtain. Do you think that is fair?
I don’t expect a free upgrade to a new phone when a new one is introduced, even after all the time and effort I put in to get one.
I don’t expect a free upgrade to the latest computer processor when a new one is introduced, even after all the time and effort I put in to get one.
I don’t expect a free upgrade to the latest suv when a new one is introduced, even after all the time and effort I put in to get one.
And I don’t expect a free upgrade to the latest gear when new ones are introduced, even after all the time and effort I put in to get my previous gear.
So yes, I think it is perfectly fair.
I play dungeons and trials for fun. It’s a game after all. If I get gear, great! If not there is next time, to me it really does not matter.
If running group content is a chore for you, why run them? And if you stop running them, why do you need upgrades?
Just have fun and stop worrying about the gear other people have.
So it’s ok if I paid $1000 for my new iphone and then someone comes along and is given the same SAME one for $100. No upgrade, no depreciation, the same phone. You might be upset too if you paid $1000. I guess upset is the wrong word. I really don’t care. I just don’t like the argument of “free upgrades”. I think that giving bis gear to players will end up making the entire player base, as a whole, less skillful, since they won’t have had to work for it.
“Apple has lowered the starting price of its iPhone 8 and iPhone XR models by $150. The iPhone 8 and iPhone XR now start at $449 and $599, respectively.“
https://venturebeat.com/2019/09/10/apple-cuts-iphone-8-and-iphone-xr-prices-by-150-kills-iphone-7-and-iphone-xs/
And yet no one freaked out over it...2 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MrTrenbolone wrote: »Catering to casuals is the biggest mistake any game developer can make.
This is completely wrong and clearly contrary to every game's marketing program.
They introduce NEW content regularly to attract NEW players.
ESO even got rid of level gating new content to do this so they can promote their newest content to new players to play it right away alongside everyone else.
That marketing scheme is the key innovation of One Tamriel -- new money right now instead of confronting new players with a long slog to the new, exciting, content. Imagine if last year's Dragon Event needed players to grind for a year just so they could visit that zone and participate in dragon hunting. That's money wasted waiting.
Existing minimaxers who just care about numbers are probably the worst money waster in time spent rebalancing content and possibly wrecking it. Even games with power creep end up having to rebalance end game content when they could just attract new players who will have increasingly more content to go through and keep them occupied.
Look how much time is wasted rebalancing combat and now the AoE tests? Time is money and that's a lot of money down the drain.
ESO is particularly bad with non-casuals because they let exploiters keep their exploits like animation cancelling and light attack weaving. Instead of lowering the ceiling with a bunch of changes, they should code out those exploits first and see what the numbers are.
New players don't even think to use those exploits because they are non-intuitive nonsensical exploits. They would hardly be affected if these exploits were removed.
Catering to NEW PLAYERS and making the game attractive to new players, to keep bringing in NEW CUSTOMERS and new money is the most important thing in a market where old players / "end gamers" / "veteran players" just sit around and whine, asking for self-centered game-wrecking changes, and cost the company money.
All these changes people are crying about now -- it's all rooted in exploiting the system to the point where builds are being played well out of what the devs intended. Look at the AoE tests -- Rich Lambert basically said so.
"Veteran players" insisting on exploits and meta and then insisting the devs make that the benchmark -- all these changes you're crying about now, you did it to yourselves.Edited by Dusk_Coven on September 20, 2020 9:48PM14 -
SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Man, the amount of vitriol in this thread towards players who work on their builds and rotation is astounding. Back when I was young and spry I was a competitive runner. I worked really, really hard at it, and those efforts paid off. It would have been a given that I'd generally have been faster than someone who ran 3 miles a few times a week. I never, ever had anyone mad at me for being faster when they trained much less. it should be obvious that the more you work at something, the more likely it becomes that you'll get good at it.
The same applies here. I have spent, at this point, hundreds of hours on my build and rotation. Of course I'm going to be good at it.
I've also noticed that the same angry people here tend to think that people who do this are somehow torturing themselves. No. I honestly find it fun, and it's the most enjoyable aspect of the game for me. How is that any less valid than others' idea of fun?
I do not care if they raise the floor, but I care that it looks like doing so is going to hurt players like myself- I'm good, but not Liko good. My groups are not optimized enough to be able to easily handle every change that ZOS throws our way. I'm not necessarily panicking right now, but it's annoying to consider the proposed methods for raising the floor and lowering the ceiling.
Most of the elite, high-performing players don't think that they're somehow better people than everyone else- some of you seem to be taking it REALLY personally that people who work 10x harder than you want to see their hard work pay off. It's not personal at all, just different ideas of fun...Edited by SidraWillowsky on September 20, 2020 11:19PM10 -
Pauwer✭✭✭✭✭Well after 5 years of playing almost daily for countless hours, i wish this game would start to blow, so i could take my money and time elsewhere i bet i have spent way more money than any "plays for 2 months and leaves" gamer. In fact i don't even want to think about it. About the time and the money. 2
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Daemons_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well after 5 years of playing almost daily for countless hours, i wish this game would start to blow, so i could take my money and time elsewhere i bet i have spent way more money than any "plays for 2 months and leaves" gamer. In fact i don't even want to think about it. About the time and the money.
Easy bet, you with 5 years against 2 months
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