This just shows how little ZOS Cares about the veteran players

Xargas13

This is laughable. Gear+buffs does not equal skill, you can have best calculated gear and buffs and you still can loose, how you use your abilities, that is skill.

Now I understand you put your time and effort in learning mechanics and what to equip and how to buff, but skill won't go anywhere, good players will still own casuals.

I would say it gives more power to the people who are less knowledgeable of the game, and if they are good, they will be winning more, if not, they die. I don't see a problem here at all.

Scardan

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

Darkstorne wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Why not see it from another perspective? They try to bring everyone closer together

And what that's going to achieve? Current 10k bow spammers are able to get Godslayer?

I think this is a good direction to go in. Hopefully major buffs are getting significant reductions in power, because they aren't optional right now. 20% weapon/spell damage is soooo much that your build simply isn't complete without them, and that's a problem imo. ESO is great because class builds have so many legit options and choices. A source of major brutality/sorcery is not an option, it's a requirement. For example, how many Templars would choose to slot Entropy if they didn't need the buff?

Most engame players I see just use good potions like the alliance pots instead of using degeneration. Maybe bad players can just buy pots like the good players do. Then everyone will have access to major spell damage without having to slot degeneration.

This is just amazing. Good players drink potions, bad players use skills. In general, good players may not want to spend resources crafting potions they can sell, and potions do not trigger mage guild passives.

Scardan

TwinLamps wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Why not see it from another perspective? They try to bring everyone closer together

Do you wish to be closer with people that dont wanna work for success but have everything handed them over for whatever reason?

Why don't you want to be "closer" to them, does it threaten your life or property?
Let me remind you, this is a video game.

Ermiq

Jierdanit wrote: »

Why would anyone spend time to minmax their builds when in the end the hours of optimizing dont even give them a huge advantage over players who just throw on random gear and dont even manage to have a good buff uptime?

The bolded word says it all about your point of view.
See, ain't nobody should be significantly better then the others unless it comes to their personal skills and knowledge.
A reasonable advantage? Yes, for sure. Huge advantage? LoL. Of course no.

Scardan

carlos424 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Fischblut wrote: »

Do the players who play this game for years and try to optimize as much as possible really mean so little to you that you try to make all their work nearly worthless by bringing new players closer to them every patch without them having to do anything?

We (veteran players) got the answer to this question, when they "took away" our arena weapons (which we earned in vet DSA and vet MA), and they gave these weapons to every newbie (who took a bit of time to run normal arenas after Greymoor release) We were left with "normal" weapons, as if we never did veteran arenas before Greymoor.

They showed complete disrespect to old players this way. So, even if it's very sad and discouraging, new bad decisions regarding veteran players are only expected
Also remember, for 2 years we didn't even had any CP cap increase - so we were not progressing, just to make it easier for new players to reach CP cap

Your arena weapons are still there. No one took anything away.

True, but they just gave away the weapons we took time and effort to obtain. Do you think that is fair?

It was not a giveaway, it was a reward, adjusted to lower difficulty, which does not affects you in any way, since you have got this weapon. Was it more difficult content back in the days or not does not matter, which lead me to conclusion, that it is fair. And you have an advantage - you have already done this content and it is much easier for you to get a better version of arena weapon than for me, who has not done it yet.

Basaz

As someone who has played MMOs for over 20 years. This is a good change for the game and the players. You look at the problem solely from your own perspective and see it in a very negative way. I'm sure the changes are also so small that you won't even notice it other than from what you read in the patch notes.

Scardan

Czekoludek wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

Czekoludek wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

Czekoludek wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

Czekoludek wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

ZOS is doing good and right thing here. The difference between good and bad should be 2 - 3 times (for DPS, as well as for healer and tank effectiveness). When the difference is 10 times or more, then it simply means that the game is completely unbalanced.

In real life difference between a person who plays football as casual and players like Messi is more then "2-3 times".

Incorrect example. In your example both types of players don't play together (or against each other). Here players are all together. Here players are in common overland and in one activity finder queue.

Most of op players don't play with casuals

Then, I guess, all those "overland is too easy" threads should be closed on sight.

Overland is too easy for everyone, not just high end players with best gear. A lot of new players quickly became bored cuz they learn that you can just light attack to roll through overland. Game doesn't show them how to play properly and doesn't require that because of difficulty level. Also in overland when you have casual and pro playing on the same map, they don't group up so they don't "play together". Are you trying to tell me that when I see low cp player doing the quest in the same area as my godslayer char, we play together? That's not how it works. For me he is just some random i don't care about, for him/her it is probably the same story

And a lot of new players find it hard.

All players play together, when they are facing the same mob, the same world boss or the same group event like dolmen or geyser. Grouping matters nothing here.

When a player uses skills A, B, C, D, E with ultimate X, he is playing properly. When a player uses skills F, G, H, I, J with ultimate Y, he is playing properly. Not every skill combination can be optimal, but every skill combination must be viable.

If players are using abilities, no matter if their build is based on meta or not, they are played properly. I don't give a F about ppl in overland if they use weak skills, bad morphd etc. But ppl for which this dumb changes are presented are mostly ppl who only light attacks or use one skill per 4 seconds. I didn't hear from anybody that overland is hard in years (and i'm on very different guilds, from end game raiding ones to pure RP). The only complains for hard overland during last 4 years was about one world boss from southern Elsweyr that actually have one hard mechanic.

I can tell you that, as new player in Vvardenfell, without CP and in different level green gear, bosses gave me some hard time.
Also that one boss from DB questline, where game does not tell you how to break free from his stun (it was not simply left and right mouse button pressing like you do normal for break free, there was press this button, then this button, lol) was hard, I have died 5 times till I figured out the pattern.
Overland got easy since 160 CP and gear. I remember times, I could not even solo a dolmen.

wolfbone

I see this so often on here.

'zos hates insert ''player type here'' ' !

more like they're trying to make it so everybody can play.

I'm not being funny but elitists are ruing this game, especially when they kick you from beginer level normal dungeons like fungal grotto I because you're not cp.

Grandchamp1989

4-5 month old thread being bumped..

Tberg725

The problem a lot of people are having with getting nerfed and less skilled players getting a buff is taking away incentive of the grind and the work it has taken to gold out gear.....noobs already get a crazy buff when they start and have plenty of time to learn the game

The people who say they’re casual players seem to be the most annoying out of all expecting to be on equal footing without putting in any of the time to learn the game in-depth and research some sets. they see others get threw some vet content a lot easier then them and say oh it’s not fair cause I die a billion times and get kicked from groups well here is what you need to do......skip that dungeon for now and run easier content till you learn your toon and how skills work together..... make some friends in the game you all can come up together and eventually you will get threw that super hard content and be super stoked about doing it (reward feeling) but throwing out a blanket nerf and boosting base stats because people are stuggling and complaining is just dumb

For some that venture into PVP and get slapped / 1 shotted stay out of CP PVP and go into non cp and what you do is talk in zone chat post up LFG you then get picked up by a group of people might find a group that’s more elitist and end up kicking you THATS FINE some people wanna run with top peeps those just weren’t the people for you. post up LFG eventually you will run into a chill group and from those people you ask questions, get a good idea of what people are running in PvP and go from there. point being we as people that have been called “elitist” which really I am not but have been labeled so sense I like to min/max my toons personally I don’t like the idea of being dragged down to a lower tier and everyone blindly being boosted

When I first started playing this game I was not good at all I died in vet content struggled threw things on my first ever toon I died at dolmens AND some main bosses at the end of a story quest line killed me a few times but this is a MMO so I’d chat up in zone chat get someone to help me or do some other things while some random player ended up on the same quest I was then we worked together to kill the boss an I’m still friends with that dude today from there we joined a guild then started progressing threw the game I can now knock out VMA

So for the people complaining about others being too strong and their toon not having enough to get threw some content it’s from being lazy plain and simple and for those that make the argument that they’re a casual who just wants to play the game to enjoy it what’s stopping you?!? If you’re a casual player you’re not even gonna care about what achievement or title some vet player is going after and nothings stopping you from grouping with your friends and moving threw the game at your own pace and doing what’s fun for you

Shantu

The nerf culture of this team is tedious and tiresome. It's like getting repeatedly slapped in the face; while the sting passes quickly, the insult and resentment does not.

SidraWillowsky

Scardan wrote: »

Czekoludek wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

Czekoludek wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

Czekoludek wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

Czekoludek wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

ZOS is doing good and right thing here. The difference between good and bad should be 2 - 3 times (for DPS, as well as for healer and tank effectiveness). When the difference is 10 times or more, then it simply means that the game is completely unbalanced.

In real life difference between a person who plays football as casual and players like Messi is more then "2-3 times".

Incorrect example. In your example both types of players don't play together (or against each other). Here players are all together. Here players are in common overland and in one activity finder queue.

Most of op players don't play with casuals

Then, I guess, all those "overland is too easy" threads should be closed on sight.

Overland is too easy for everyone, not just high end players with best gear. A lot of new players quickly became bored cuz they learn that you can just light attack to roll through overland. Game doesn't show them how to play properly and doesn't require that because of difficulty level. Also in overland when you have casual and pro playing on the same map, they don't group up so they don't "play together". Are you trying to tell me that when I see low cp player doing the quest in the same area as my godslayer char, we play together? That's not how it works. For me he is just some random i don't care about, for him/her it is probably the same story

And a lot of new players find it hard.

All players play together, when they are facing the same mob, the same world boss or the same group event like dolmen or geyser. Grouping matters nothing here.

When a player uses skills A, B, C, D, E with ultimate X, he is playing properly. When a player uses skills F, G, H, I, J with ultimate Y, he is playing properly. Not every skill combination can be optimal, but every skill combination must be viable.

If players are using abilities, no matter if their build is based on meta or not, they are played properly. I don't give a F about ppl in overland if they use weak skills, bad morphd etc. But ppl for which this dumb changes are presented are mostly ppl who only light attacks or use one skill per 4 seconds. I didn't hear from anybody that overland is hard in years (and i'm on very different guilds, from end game raiding ones to pure RP). The only complains for hard overland during last 4 years was about one world boss from southern Elsweyr that actually have one hard mechanic.

I can tell you that, as new player in Vvardenfell, without CP and in different level green gear, bosses gave me some hard time.
Also that one boss from DB questline, where game does not tell you how to break free from his stun (it was not simply left and right mouse button pressing like you do normal for break free, there was press this button, then this button, lol) was hard, I have died 5 times till I figured out the pattern.
Overland got easy since 160 CP and gear. I remember times, I could not even solo a dolmen.

A few of the public dungeon bosses are extremely difficult early on and I actually couldn't beat them on my EU character early on (vs. my NA characters, where even the sub-50s are strong b/c of the 810 CP I can allocate as soon as they're created)... there's that Hunger boss in Forgotten Wastes, and Nchkhsgdonkadonk has several that I had to get help on. I think that most people here have been max CP for so long that they forget how difficult some stuff can be for newbies, or think that they're somehow so skilled now that stuff was difficult early on because they didn't know how to play. I was in the latter category until I actually tried going from the ground up.

Tsar_Gekkou

Scardan wrote: »

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

Darkstorne wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Why not see it from another perspective? They try to bring everyone closer together

And what that's going to achieve? Current 10k bow spammers are able to get Godslayer?

I think this is a good direction to go in. Hopefully major buffs are getting significant reductions in power, because they aren't optional right now. 20% weapon/spell damage is soooo much that your build simply isn't complete without them, and that's a problem imo. ESO is great because class builds have so many legit options and choices. A source of major brutality/sorcery is not an option, it's a requirement. For example, how many Templars would choose to slot Entropy if they didn't need the buff?

Most engame players I see just use good potions like the alliance pots instead of using degeneration. Maybe bad players can just buy pots like the good players do. Then everyone will have access to major spell damage without having to slot degeneration.

This is just amazing. Good players drink potions, bad players use skills. In general, good players may not want to spend resources crafting potions they can sell, and potions do not trigger mage guild passives.

You do realize that not every build calls for Degeneration right? And they can just use meteor for the passives as well. So what's your idea for dual-wield stam characters? They don't use hidden blade for major weapon damage, so how are they gonna get it without pots? They're gonna have to craft or buy them like everyone else.

BXR_Lonestar

Honestly, I think it is a good thing that they are trying to lower the DPS ceiling and raise the floor so that more people are oriented towards the middle. If they don't do this, the only way they can continue to implement challenge into the game for the top 1-5% of the gamers out there is to balance the game based on their damage output and abilities, which serves as a barrier for other players to participate in the same content. My guess is that this is why you see overuse of OHK mechanics in DLC dungeons and trials - because that is the only way they can make content challenging for the top tier players.

IDK about all of you, but I'm tired of seeing OHK mechanics in DLC dungeons and trials and would much rather see content be more accessible. Leave hardmodes, skin runs, and speed runs to the neckbeards, but ordinary veteran runs should be accessible for the larger portion of the player base.

Goregrinder

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Why not see it from another perspective? They try to bring everyone closer together

Imagine working somewhere for 10 years, getting a raise every year plus a yearly bonus. Then some new employee gets hired with less experience than you, probably still taking college classes, and your job starts them off making what you make, maybe a dollar less an hour. Your boss then tells you "Well we wanted to bring everyone's salary inline with each other so we brought the rookie's pay to be more in line with you 10 year vets to be fair to everyone...."

I'm guessing you think that's fair and that people who put time into a task shouldn't be rewarded more than those who put less time into it? Equality of outcome right?

amm7sb14_ESO

Jierdanit wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Why not see it from another perspective? They try to bring everyone closer together

So in your opinion its good that your build and player skill matters less and that in the end players who play for years get the same results as new players who get their first mediocre gear and spend maybe 2 weeks learning the game?

Yes.

Too many people have too much of their self worth tied up in achievements in a *video game*, and "fully optimized" and "BiS" builds are the absolute single worst thing about MMO's. Anything that contributes to getting rid of them is a wonderful thing.

amm7sb14_ESO

TwinLamps wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Why not see it from another perspective? They try to bring everyone closer together

Do you wish to be closer with people that dont wanna work for success but have everything handed them over for whatever reason?

It's a video game.

amm7sb14_ESO

Rungar wrote: »

if they really wanted to raise the floor and lower the ceiling they would just get rid of weaving and give everyone a 15% damage boost.

God I hate weaving. It would be the happiest day for me if it went away.

karekiz

Goregrinder wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Why not see it from another perspective? They try to bring everyone closer together

Imagine working somewhere for 10 years, getting a raise every year plus a yearly bonus. Then some new employee gets hired with less experience than you, probably still taking college classes, and your job starts them off making what you make, maybe a dollar less an hour. Your boss then tells you "Well we wanted to bring everyone's salary inline with each other so we brought the rookie's pay to be more in line with you 10 year vets to be fair to everyone...."

I'm guessing you think that's fair and that people who put time into a task shouldn't be rewarded more than those who put less time into it? Equality of outcome right?

Imagine working for 20 years starting at "X" amount of money then ALL OF A SUDDEN they just UP AND RAISE the minimum wage to something you didn't even HAVE before? I can't believe the thought! You just got RIPPED OFF!

Jeffrey530

Goregrinder wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Why not see it from another perspective? They try to bring everyone closer together

Imagine working somewhere for 10 years, getting a raise every year plus a yearly bonus. Then some new employee gets hired with less experience than you, probably still taking college classes, and your job starts them off making what you make, maybe a dollar less an hour. Your boss then tells you "Well we wanted to bring everyone's salary inline with each other so we brought the rookie's pay to be more in line with you 10 year vets to be fair to everyone...."

I'm guessing you think that's fair and that people who put time into a task shouldn't be rewarded more than those who put less time into it? Equality of outcome right?

That's how a proper functional society with good social policy works no? Raise the ground and lower the ceiling. Not by your employee of course, but the government will apply higher tax for those that earns more, even 40-50% tax if you earn over a certain threshold while no tax or even free cash and support for those that earn minimal or earn nothing. Is that fair? Maybe not.

Kiyakotari

Kalik_Gold wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Are that many players stacking both Major and Minor? Which Major/Minor powers? I haven't seen any online builds that even talk about stacking both.

Yes even some of my personal builds stack both, due to certain classes or gear choice.

Also some builds are created to work in unison with a proper team, this definitely stacks both.

Even some classes were innate with Major and Minor buffs making them feel stronger or tankier Dragonknight brutality on Stam. Protection on Warden.

Heck, I stack Major/Minor Expedition on my harvesting builds for doing surveys from my writs (good lord I let those build up, I'm so bad about it - I have thousands).Granted, with Wild Hunt this isn't so much an issue in that particular situation any longer, but still...

Goregrinder

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Why not see it from another perspective? They try to bring everyone closer together

Imagine working somewhere for 10 years, getting a raise every year plus a yearly bonus. Then some new employee gets hired with less experience than you, probably still taking college classes, and your job starts them off making what you make, maybe a dollar less an hour. Your boss then tells you "Well we wanted to bring everyone's salary inline with each other so we brought the rookie's pay to be more in line with you 10 year vets to be fair to everyone...."

I'm guessing you think that's fair and that people who put time into a task shouldn't be rewarded more than those who put less time into it? Equality of outcome right?

That's how a proper functional society with good social policy works no? Raise the ground and lower the ceiling. Not by your employee of course, but the government will apply higher tax for those that earns more, even 40-50% tax if you earn over a certain threshold while no tax or even free cash and support for those that earn minimal or earn nothing. Is that fair? Maybe not.

You don't think someone with 10+ years experience at a job should be making more than someone with almost no experience who just started that same job? No bonuses, or yearly raises? All employees make the exact same amount an hour regardless of effort, time, degrees/certs earned?

amm7sb14_ESO

Goregrinder wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Why not see it from another perspective? They try to bring everyone closer together

Imagine working somewhere for 10 years, getting a raise every year plus a yearly bonus. Then some new employee gets hired with less experience than you, probably still taking college classes, and your job starts them off making what you make, maybe a dollar less an hour. Your boss then tells you "Well we wanted to bring everyone's salary inline with each other so we brought the rookie's pay to be more in line with you 10 year vets to be fair to everyone...."

I'm guessing you think that's fair and that people who put time into a task shouldn't be rewarded more than those who put less time into it? Equality of outcome right?

That's your first problem - you're comparing a *video game* to a job.

Goregrinder

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Why not see it from another perspective? They try to bring everyone closer together

Imagine working somewhere for 10 years, getting a raise every year plus a yearly bonus. Then some new employee gets hired with less experience than you, probably still taking college classes, and your job starts them off making what you make, maybe a dollar less an hour. Your boss then tells you "Well we wanted to bring everyone's salary inline with each other so we brought the rookie's pay to be more in line with you 10 year vets to be fair to everyone...."

I'm guessing you think that's fair and that people who put time into a task shouldn't be rewarded more than those who put less time into it? Equality of outcome right?

That's your first problem - you're comparing a *video game* to a job.

No, I'm comparing someone spending a lot of time doing something to spending a lot of time doing something. You don't think someone who puts in the time and effort to grind more CP in ESO should be rewarded for it compared to someone who has not yet put in that same grind?

amm7sb14_ESO

Goregrinder wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Why not see it from another perspective? They try to bring everyone closer together

Imagine working somewhere for 10 years, getting a raise every year plus a yearly bonus. Then some new employee gets hired with less experience than you, probably still taking college classes, and your job starts them off making what you make, maybe a dollar less an hour. Your boss then tells you "Well we wanted to bring everyone's salary inline with each other so we brought the rookie's pay to be more in line with you 10 year vets to be fair to everyone...."

I'm guessing you think that's fair and that people who put time into a task shouldn't be rewarded more than those who put less time into it? Equality of outcome right?

That's your first problem - you're comparing a *video game* to a job.

No, I'm comparing someone spending a lot of time doing something to spending a lot of time doing something. You don't think someone who puts in the time and effort to grind more CP in ESO should be rewarded for it compared to someone who has not yet put in that same grind?

I don't care. It's a video game. What other people experience doesn't impact mine. I'm here to have fun. If anyone is here for any reason other than "having fun" is here for the wrong reasons.

It's a game. Not work. Too many people have way too much sense of self worth tied up in a video game. Rewards? Accomplishments? Achievements? wtf does any of it mean? Once the servers are inevitably shut down in a few years, what does anything you've done in game matter at all? Once you inevitably depart for the next game, what does anything you've done in game matter at all?

It's a video game. Why does other people being able to experience the game bother you so much?

Gracous

Players with builds that aren’t 100% optimized will see an increase in power, while players utilizing all Majors/Minors at once in coordinated efforts will see a decrease in power.

What do they mean by optimized? I have a crafter that is optimized for speed so that he can run from one resource node to another and harvest nodes quickly. I built him for that purpose.
Will he then get a huge increase in dmg because he is not built for it?

Jeffrey530

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Why not see it from another perspective? They try to bring everyone closer together

Imagine working somewhere for 10 years, getting a raise every year plus a yearly bonus. Then some new employee gets hired with less experience than you, probably still taking college classes, and your job starts them off making what you make, maybe a dollar less an hour. Your boss then tells you "Well we wanted to bring everyone's salary inline with each other so we brought the rookie's pay to be more in line with you 10 year vets to be fair to everyone...."

I'm guessing you think that's fair and that people who put time into a task shouldn't be rewarded more than those who put less time into it? Equality of outcome right?

That's how a proper functional society with good social policy works no? Raise the ground and lower the ceiling. Not by your employee of course, but the government will apply higher tax for those that earns more, even 40-50% tax if you earn over a certain threshold while no tax or even free cash and support for those that earn minimal or earn nothing. Is that fair? Maybe not.

You don't think someone with 10+ years experience at a job should be making more than someone with almost no experience who just started that same job? No bonuses, or yearly raises? All employees make the exact same amount an hour regardless of effort, time, degrees/certs earned?

Obviously should be making more, but not being a cry baby when a small chunk of the advantage is given out?

In-game, I have more gold more titles more materials more experience/ability, so I have a massive advantage already over someone new, in no way is zos taking away my stuff. Yea they made my ma staff much easier to farm for newbies, even though I spent tons of hours in getting one, I did use it for a long time before it is being 'normalised' for other people so I don't have an issue, esp if I an gonna meet a chunk of these newbies in pug and we will prob work tgh to clear some dungeons in the future.

That's how the real world works as well, do you think students shouldn't get student loans because 'back in my days' I have to work part-time to pay for my own uni tuition fees? Do you think the poor shouldn't get good social welfare because as a 'vet' in life I have been through the same difficult situation and overcame it at a time when social welfare isn't a thing? Get real, both in game and in life, we need to lower the ceiling and raise the floor for a more harmonious society and a healthy influx of new players in the game. In no way it is stripping 'everything' away from vets that's why your arguement is misleading at best.

nryerson1025

MrTrenbolone wrote: »

Catering to casuals is the biggest mistake any game developer can make.

I feel it important to remind everyone this is a business, whose goal is to accumulate an increasing amount of subscriber growth. From that perspective, this change fits perfectly. Why should zenimax have to cater to a small % when it's the majority that can take the game to the next level

Goregrinder

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Why not see it from another perspective? They try to bring everyone closer together

Imagine working somewhere for 10 years, getting a raise every year plus a yearly bonus. Then some new employee gets hired with less experience than you, probably still taking college classes, and your job starts them off making what you make, maybe a dollar less an hour. Your boss then tells you "Well we wanted to bring everyone's salary inline with each other so we brought the rookie's pay to be more in line with you 10 year vets to be fair to everyone...."

I'm guessing you think that's fair and that people who put time into a task shouldn't be rewarded more than those who put less time into it? Equality of outcome right?

That's how a proper functional society with good social policy works no? Raise the ground and lower the ceiling. Not by your employee of course, but the government will apply higher tax for those that earns more, even 40-50% tax if you earn over a certain threshold while no tax or even free cash and support for those that earn minimal or earn nothing. Is that fair? Maybe not.

You don't think someone with 10+ years experience at a job should be making more than someone with almost no experience who just started that same job? No bonuses, or yearly raises? All employees make the exact same amount an hour regardless of effort, time, degrees/certs earned?

Obviously should be making more, but not being a cry baby when a small chunk of the advantage is given out?

In-game, I have more gold more titles more materials more experience/ability, so I have a massive advantage already over someone new, in no way is zos taking away my stuff. Yea they made my ma staff much easier to farm for newbies, even though I spent tons of hours in getting one, I did use it for a long time before it is being 'normalised' for other people so I don't have an issue, esp if I an gonna meet a chunk of these newbies in pug and we will prob work tgh to clear some dungeons in the future.

That's how the real world works as well, do you think students shouldn't get student loans because 'back in my days' I have to work part-time to pay for my own uni tuition fees? Do you think the poor shouldn't get good social welfare because as a 'vet' in life I have been through the same difficult situation and overcame it at a time when social welfare isn't a thing? Get real, both in game and in life, we need to lower the ceiling and raise the floor for a more harmonious society and a healthy influx of new players in the game. In no way it is stripping 'everything' away from vets that's why your arguement is misleading at best.

I agree, it should 100% be more. People who put more time and effort should always be rewarded for it and always have an advantage over those who decide to put less time and less effort into the same thing. And as far as RL goes, I believe people should always get what they put in. If they put in nothing, they should get nothing.

barney2525

vilio11 wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

vilio11 wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Keywords in this thread are: work - effort - learn.... it's a game. Games are things people do for fun!

Also, as a tank I've noticed most players performing 'well' are the ones that don't look at what they are doing. They just focus on light attack weaving, animation cancelling, and skill rotations/bar swapping. Causing them to die 9 out of 10 boss attacks, instead of moving out of them. Those players might as well be facing a test dummy in their house. So I rather have players with somewhat lower damage but who actually look at mechanics, thank you!

For some people harder and challenging content is fun. Why do you think that the only fun activity in games is just doing casual stuffs?

Noone says that. That would imply someone is taking away the highest skill cealing, which is not happening ever. This thread is about the low end vs high end of the skill spectrum. The highest skill cealing is only lowered somewhat, but it is not taken away. And it is still WAY above the lower end of the spectrum.

This thread isn't about challenging content either, otherwise why would you be against the game becoming harder for veterans because of these changes?! That technically makes content more challenging for those players. This thread is about the highest skill ceiling being lowered by a bit, which top end players(who say the game is easy) are against for some reason.

Just seems like complaining for the sake of complaining. Especially since the entire game goes through stages of nerfs/buffs, in a neverending cycle.

@eKsDee The same can be said in reverse... you are playing an MMORPG, so it is to be expected not everyone wants to be a top-player all the time. Or even at all. Most parts of the game are even build for singleplayers. Every different part of the game was build for the type of player that wants to use it, even if it conflicts with how another player plays.

So you have to grind many hours of fetch quest and kill many mobs in a boring and easy combat go get to the fun parts(trials and vet dungeons). So if you are a hardcore player you would not want to waste time on a MMO with easy overland just to get to the endgame.

From that point of view, you don't want to play Any MMO.