If you are a fake tank ...

Jayman1000 · September 2020

If a player in the tank role can hold aggro on the boss and doesnt die that is basically the only thing I I request from a tank, and it's sad there are people that queue up for tank who cannot even accomplish this the simplest of task.

redlink1979 · September 2020

My bad experiences: fake tanks/healers that neither tank/heal or do enough dps and, besides that, has/have no clue about red circles and/or mechs...

So, fake tanks/healers are kicked from the group at the begining of the dungeon.

ClawOfTheTwoMoons · September 2020

If you're a fake tank...
You get vote kicked.

relentless_turnip · September 2020

I fake tank sometimes...

By that I mean i am not spec'd as a tank, but I put on armor master to get my resistances to cap, put taunt on skill bar and change my mundus to get 30k health.

I only do this on normal dungeons i would normally solo and I only do this to grind sets, other wise I queue as a dps.

I mainly PVP so I find regardless someone is complaining in dungeons, I find the elitist attitude is far more affluent in PVE. I have had someone saying my 20K dps isn't enough to run whatever dungeon I'm in, when half the time it is content I can solo, so how isn't it enough? not enough to do it fast maybe...

My point is most the time you don't need an optimal setup to complete the majority of content and everyone just needs to try and be understanding and considerate. There are a lot of new players that get put off by these experiences and a high population is in all of our interest.

robo26 · September 2020

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I fake tank sometimes...

By that I mean i am not spec'd as a tank, but I put on armor master to get my resistances to cap, put taunt on skill bar and change my mundus to get 30k health.

I only do this on normal dungeons i would normally solo and I only do this to grind sets, other wise I queue as a dps.

I mainly PVP so I find regardless someone is complaining in dungeons, I find the elitist attitude is far more affluent in PVE. I have had someone saying my 20K dps isn't enough to run whatever dungeon I'm in, when half the time it is content I can solo, so how isn't it enough? not enough to do it fast maybe...

My point is most the time you don't need an optimal setup to complete the majority of content and everyone just needs to try and be understanding and considerate. There are a lot of new players that get put off by these experiences and a high population is in all of our interest.

In all fairness, in normals, I wouldn't class this as fake tanking - you are taunting and have resistances to make the healers job easier and can dish out some dps too - wish all "fake tanks" tried doing just that.

robo26 · September 2020

Maybe if other players in the groups started blocking fake tanks, they would find it harder to get into dungeons in the first place?

josiahva · September 2020

Just kick fake tanks if they dont perform the tank role to a minimum standard...simple. If they do perform the role to minimum standard...let them play however they want to play.

newtinmpls · September 2020

Hapexamendios wrote: »

As long as the person tanking can keep agro and has good survivability, I'm fine with it.

You sorta defined "tank" here.

It's the no-aggro below 13k HP problems that are ... the problem

zaria · September 2020

redlink1979 wrote: »

My bad experiences: fake tanks/healers that neither tank/heal or do enough dps and, besides that, has/have no clue about red circles and/or mechs...

So, fake tanks/healers are kicked from the group at the begining of the dungeon.

Yes, fake tank doing tank level dps, and having the healer work overtime keeping him alive so he can not do much damage either.
Often fake tanking work up to last boss. Now BC2 HM with fake tank sounds interesting

Now healers has an easier time here as they can go from DD with off heal to full healer with changing skills who is easy on pc.
This is good reason to wait a bit before last boss, also DD might want to change stuff like add a shield or similar.

Now if you know your limits and have an taunt and can stay alive without overworking healer I have no issues, note healer can be fake to

Lisutaris · September 2020

Milchbart wrote: »

... please don't die to the first attack of Selene ( shouldn't fake tanking dds have heard of dodge rolling?)

I'm so sick of fake tanks aka dds who claim " ... but tanks aren't needed in non-dlc vet dungeons ..."
If that's your opinion as a fake tank than at least prove that your capable of performing basic combat maneuvers.

I usually kick fake tanks, fake heals and or fake DD when they don't perform and (yes all 3 possible) IF they are annoying/rushing/rude ... and just before the final boss .... ! Most of the time I am mixing a longdrink/cocktail and made some popcorn beforehand to enjoy it even more. The grp chat and /w is just golden afterwards ... they are able to communicate when it is too late.

I would say around 8-9 out of 10 times this works with random/pug grps as well .... as everyone is annoyed of them xD

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Merforum · September 2020

I have 13 toons and did all the normal dungeon 50 times each with my brother. But recently got sick of him and been doing all the DLC dungeons on all toons with randos, it is pretty easy converting all magika toons into healers and all Stam toons into tanks.

Since I have been doing this I have noticed Fake Tanks, Fake Healers AND Fake DPS is a plague. I have arthritis so I can't just mash buttons like crazy, but some how my 35k Hlth tanks (with all 50 in stam, 14 in health & normally 20+K DPS) can taunt, pull, buff, debuff and still do 6K dps, but ALWAYS at least 1 DPS, both or all 3 can't do 10K or stay alive.

Having 30K total DPS is almost a miracle on bosses. Literally all they have to do is wait until I pull all the adds into a nice group, and drop 2 or 3 aoes on them and get 30K dps. But they'd rather run in front of me, get aggro, run around in circles, make me chase the big hitters so they don't get 1 shot. I've had groups where they all wipe, I literally rez all of them 3 times, then finally just kill the boss, while at least one of them complains in chat. REZ ME REZ ME REZ ME.

Some boss fights in DLC are too hard to kill with 6K dps, while trying to REZ everyone so I wipe. In those cases I switch to my Stam dps gear where I can literally solo it, but these dudes still whine. Some of these jerks have initiated a kick on me but at least one refuses, tells me in chat, and we kick them, it is kind of hilarious.

Level 1 dungeons I only queue on Vet and can say there are less super bad players, but typically still 1 jerk. Today I did WGT about 5 times and had to kick 2 guys once, and 1 guy 3 times, only 1 run where we didn't kick someone. I think WGT has a bunch of PVP people today, thinking they can run one of their player killing cheesy combos on bosses, then get 1 shot. It's Funny.

derpy_cat1234 · September 2020

If its any normal or base game vet hm you can go 4dd and its faster. Just have 1 dd slot inner fire. If its vet dlc hm dont pug it. Healers are kinda useless in 4man content and completely useless in organised 4man groups.(there are a couple vet dlc hms that might need 1 dd to slot some healing skills tho)

redgreensunset · September 2020

dimitrisp1 wrote: »

If its any normal or base game vet hm you can go 4dd and its faster. Just have 1 dd slot inner fire. If its vet dlc hm dont pug it. Healers are kinda useless in 4man content and completely useless in organised 4man groups.(there are a couple vet dlc hms that might need 1 dd to slot some healing skills tho)

I can hear you've never run with a proper healer.

With that aside what you decide to do in a premade is entirely up to the members of that premade, but stop inflicting your alternative role constellations on pugs. If you want to run a 4 dd dungeon then group up with friends or guildies and do as you please, don't expect a pug to tolerate your selfish behavior.

Kazren · September 2020

Milchbart wrote: »

... please don't die to the first attack of Selene ( shouldn't fake tanking dds have heard of dodge rolling?)

I'm so sick of fake tanks aka dds who claim " ... but tanks aren't needed in non-dlc vet dungeons ..."
If that's your opinion as a fake tank than at least prove that your capable of performing basic combat maneuvers.

I agree. They have no agro and if your dps happens to pull a lot of agro, he's suddenly trust into the role of tank. If I wanted to tank, I'd play my tank. Not only that, but when a group wipes, I blame it all on the fake tank. Maybe he should pay everyone's repair bills. They're selfish immature people who don't know how to wait their turn in queue and so everyone else has to suffer.

Stinkyremy · September 2020

Lintashi wrote: »

Agree. As healer, pugging 90% of the time, I have seen plenty of fake tanks. On one side, they are somewhat like cheaters, since they try to cut the line, and get daily done ahead of other dds. But it is true, with good dds and healer, tank is not exactly needed in most normal non dlc's and even in some vets. The problem is, that if our group kicks such character, we can spend next 40 mins waiting for another tank, without guarantee, that it would be real one. So in most times, I just go full overheal, and hope that dds just burn through most of mechanics.

Irony of this is actually healer is not needed. With 3dds the tank can wrap the adds up in a nice little bow for Aoe and debuff the heavies so they get nuked fast, the healer isn't required at all because only the tank is talking damage and dds have self heals.
I'm a tank man and prefer 3dd in content like base dungeons, vet hms bosses vdsa. Modt of the time if the team is gonna die from the mechanics the healer can't prevent it anyway.
I appreciate healers big time I'm a trials but 9 times out of 10 the job gets done more efficiently and quicker with 3dd and a tank rather than the classic 4 setup.

I'm not trying to start a war of tanks v healer but obviously you can see the logic in this.
Imagine any boss with adds in a dungeon and imagine 3dd 1 healer kiting boss and adds around. It makes the job more long and more difficult.

Casul · September 2020

If I fake tank I'm usually running with 2 DPS friends. Hope the healer can keep up.

JanTanhide · September 2020

First, look at the health of the "Tank". If it is less than 24K Vote to Kick immediately in Vet runs. If they never Taunt the boss then that is another sign they are a fake tank. Vote to kick.

I have no patience for Fake Tanks or Fake Healers. Boot them immediately.

Strider__Roshin · September 2020

This is completely fair. When I played I queued as a fake tank all the time, but we burned through the content. If you can't handle not having a tank then obviously don't queue as a tank when you're not.

Merforum · September 2020

Had another Fake Tank today, it happens about 50% when I run healer. Luckily he was doing high damage, which makes up for the other DPS dying and doing low DPS. One of the DPS did OK and stayed alive, while this dude got 1 shot several times and never blocked just ran around. But he did do most damage.

He was running way ahead and went past 2 of the Quest dudes that you have to kill. We told him to slow down because 2 people are doing the Quest. Honestly if the other DPS were better I would have 'initiated a kick' but he did slow down enough and actually asked us at the end if we solved the quest, we did. But only because I stayed behind 2 times to kill the dudes by myself.

These Fake Tanks think their DPS is so good they can just blow through DLC dungeons. But if I don't heal them like crazy in many places they die (I purposely didn't heal him once just to see if he had self-heals but no he died). They think their time is more important than everyone else. But if they just ran as DPS we could finish dungeons much faster (although they'd probably run ahead anyway). Anyway, I think everyone need to vote kick them from now on because they will never stop otherwise.

Or better option would be if they added a check box like auto-accept, that allow 'QuickRun', with 3 DPS and 1 Healer or Tank. So beginners and tradition players could queue normally and Speed Runners could queue with each other.

Wolfster · September 2020

Algorax wrote: »

I've been suggesting special rewards for tanks to incentivate the role for quite some time but with no avail...

This only further incentivises fake tanks. It works in games like Overwatch where character roles and abilities are set, but telling whether a character in ESO is a legit tank is not easy, and would be gameable. You’ll just get DD queuing tank for the reward.

Dovakhan · September 2020

Milchbart wrote: »

... please don't die to the first attack of Selene ( shouldn't fake tanking dds have heard of dodge rolling?)

I'm so sick of fake tanks aka dds who claim " ... but tanks aren't needed in non-dlc vet dungeons ..."
If that's your opinion as a fake tank than at least prove that your capable of performing basic combat maneuvers.

Good luck thinking that the average PUG even cares.

Just yesterday, I tried to explain to 3 of them the mechanics of the second Unhallowed dungeon boss, TWICE. They just didn't cared and instead of anyone grappling up (I was the tank, and I was supposed to drag the boss to the glyph and make it smash it), they just kept on staying on the ground and hitting it like idiots.

I left when the second try failed :P

zvavi · September 2020

Dovakhan wrote: »

Milchbart wrote: »

... please don't die to the first attack of Selene ( shouldn't fake tanking dds have heard of dodge rolling?)

I'm so sick of fake tanks aka dds who claim " ... but tanks aren't needed in non-dlc vet dungeons ..."
If that's your opinion as a fake tank than at least prove that your capable of performing basic combat maneuvers.

Good luck thinking that the average PUG even cares.

Just yesterday, I tried to explain to 3 of them the mechanics of the second Unhallowed dungeon boss, TWICE. They just didn't cared and instead of anyone grappling up (I was the tank, and I was supposed to drag the boss to the glyph and make it smash it), they just kept on staying on the ground and hitting it like idiots.

I left when the second try failed :P

Grapple up yourself then you only need to know the amount of circles, no need to use the platforms, takes like 6 seconds top to check all 3

Now more related to the topic, fake tanks are a big big issue. Big. Mostly because
1. They usually have no damage.
2. The wont taunt.
3. People refuse to kick them.

I mean, I am all for kicking them, but silent pugs just refuse to do so. You can logically speak with your group sometimes and manage to kick them, but usually you have the silent pugs that refuse to kick.

Dovakhan · September 2020

zvavi wrote: »

Dovakhan wrote: »

Milchbart wrote: »

... please don't die to the first attack of Selene ( shouldn't fake tanking dds have heard of dodge rolling?)

I'm so sick of fake tanks aka dds who claim " ... but tanks aren't needed in non-dlc vet dungeons ..."
If that's your opinion as a fake tank than at least prove that your capable of performing basic combat maneuvers.

Good luck thinking that the average PUG even cares.

Just yesterday, I tried to explain to 3 of them the mechanics of the second Unhallowed dungeon boss, TWICE. They just didn't cared and instead of anyone grappling up (I was the tank, and I was supposed to drag the boss to the glyph and make it smash it), they just kept on staying on the ground and hitting it like idiots.

I left when the second try failed :P

Grapple up yourself then you only need to know the amount of circles, no need to use the platforms, takes like 6 seconds top to check all 3

Thought about it before leaving.

Then I thought: "make all the work myself? screw it".

lozq · September 2020

I got called out as a 'fake tank' just now. In normal Darkshade I. With my level 30 Argonian DK. Running S+B front and *gasp* 2H backbar.

I tanked as I would normally tank any easy dungeon, full crowd control and taunting. But instead of chucking down blockade and pulling in mobs (no chains yet) I was just laying into the enemy with whatever the other morph of brawler is and breathing a bit of fire for fracture. The mighty 180cp DD took offense (probably because he had metrics and could see I was doing 70% of the group DPS) and outed me to the group as queue jumping, no-good fake tank.

Anyway. That's my confession.

Grandchamp1989 · September 2020

lozq wrote: »

I got called out as a 'fake tank' just now. In normal Darkshade I. With my level 30 Argonian DK. Running S+B front and *gasp* 2H backbar.

I tanked as I would normally tank any easy dungeon, full crowd control and taunting. But instead of chucking down blockade and pulling in mobs (no chains yet) I was just laying into the enemy with whatever the other morph of brawler is and breathing a bit of fire for fracture. The mighty 180cp DD took offense (probably because he had metrics and could see I was doing 70% of the group DPS) and outed me to the group as queue jumping, no-good fake tank.

Anyway. That's my confession.

lolol many DDs got no idea how tanking works.
Like when the Boss is randomly picking out a team mate to do its special attack (Untauntable) and people think they got aggro on them. lol no mate that's just Zos way of checking to see if you're still awake midway through your parse.

The sword and board should be a straight giveaway but what you gonna do, many team mates don't even know they own mechanics - Yet you can interrupt certain attacks, and yes that helps the team lol.

josiahva · September 2020

zvavi wrote: »

Dovakhan wrote: »

Milchbart wrote: »

... please don't die to the first attack of Selene ( shouldn't fake tanking dds have heard of dodge rolling?)

I'm so sick of fake tanks aka dds who claim " ... but tanks aren't needed in non-dlc vet dungeons ..."
If that's your opinion as a fake tank than at least prove that your capable of performing basic combat maneuvers.

Good luck thinking that the average PUG even cares.

Just yesterday, I tried to explain to 3 of them the mechanics of the second Unhallowed dungeon boss, TWICE. They just didn't cared and instead of anyone grappling up (I was the tank, and I was supposed to drag the boss to the glyph and make it smash it), they just kept on staying on the ground and hitting it like idiots.

I left when the second try failed :P

Grapple up yourself then you only need to know the amount of circles, no need to use the platforms, takes like 6 seconds top to check all 3

Now more related to the topic, fake tanks are a big big issue. Big. Mostly because
1. They usually have no damage.
2. The wont taunt.
3. People refuse to kick them.

I mean, I am all for kicking them, but silent pugs just refuse to do so. You can logically speak with your group sometimes and manage to kick them, but usually you have the silent pugs that refuse to kick.

Have you ever tried grappling up as the tank? He immediately pulls you right back down if you try that...no way a tank can check all 3 before being pulled down by the boss.....I will qualify that with the fact I only tried this twice as a tank, so I stopped trying after that.

zvavi · September 2020

josiahva wrote: »

Have you ever tried grappling up as the tank? He immediately pulls you right back down if you try that...no way a tank can check all 3 before being pulled down by the boss.....I will qualify that with the fact I only tried this twice as a tank, so I stopped trying after that.

Yes. I did. I don't need to use the thing, only to check the amount of circles, so it doesn't matter if he pulls me back down. He can pull me down 4 times if he wants it I will keep grappling till I get all 3 places + 1 extra grapple to get better view on the circles. It still doesn't take long.

lozq wrote: »

I got called out as a 'fake tank' just now. In normal Darkshade I. With my level 30 Argonian DK. Running S+B front and *gasp* 2H backbar.

I tanked as I would normally tank any easy dungeon, full crowd control and taunting. But instead of chucking down blockade and pulling in mobs (no chains yet) I was just laying into the enemy with whatever the other morph of brawler is and breathing a bit of fire for fracture. The mighty 180cp DD took offense (probably because he had metrics and could see I was doing 70% of the group DPS) and outed me to the group as queue jumping, no-good fake tank.

Anyway. That's my confession.

If u taunt, u ain't a fake.

KaGaOri · September 2020

Had fake tank (or "fake tank"?) experience yesterday - behold horror story from the PUG lands: queued for random normal and got White-Gold Tower. Daily + the tickets in one run = jackpot. But then the things took turn for the crazy. The tank took moment longer at the entrance and the other dd wrote in the chat something along the lines: "thought fake tanks used to be fast." The tank wrote something back - don't remember what, but it was nothing nice. They went back and forth through the whole run - it went from jabby, through rude all the way to downright obscene. The crazy thing was, that the run went smoothly otherwise - we burned through everything fast, no one was struggling, or dying. Glanced at the chat now and then and they were still going. Seriously, how do you write paragraphs of insults while runing around fighting stuff? Few mobs before the last boss the tank wrote something along the lines of, that dd can polish his axe with his *cough* bodypart and the dd started vote to kick him. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for kicking out an toxic a-hole, but that would be both of them in this case, so I went no and so did the healer. Just stop measuring your pee-pees, shut up and finish the thing, please! No idea if they stopped, since I've put away the chat window afterwards in name of keeping my sanity, but the final boss went down fastest I've seen this event. So, maybe the guy was a fake tank / another dd? I'm not qualified to say that after runing dungeons for only about week and half. Seemed hardly worth loosing my marbles over it, though, even if he was.

Scion_of_Yggdrasil · September 2020

If you are a fake tank, know that I (healer) have your back, IF...

1) ... you at least try to do tanky things: herd mobs, hold agro. If your HP/Resistances don't add up, it's uuuusually fine, just keep the heat off everyone, especially me (healer), since I am now working overtime.

2) ... you stick with the group. Tank tanks are fine walking into a room full of baddies. Fake tanks need special attention, and Im a free elf... if you want my heals, you can wait a few secs for the group the catch up, because I will almost always stay behind with the slowest person.

And IF you're an inconsiderate fake tank, with the warped idea that all of us are here to serve your impatient needs, trying to skip the queue to farm, I will use you for all you're worth and vote to kick you before the final boss. Or just walk (sassy commander personality equipped) as you rush ahead of the group, watching you crumble under the mobs.

With my Heal/Bow/Duel Wield, I actually pair quite well with fake tanks... so long as they have decent dps, and try to round up the mobs. I will help keep the mobs in place (Time Freeze & Bahraha's Curse), and even help gather them in the center (frozen retreat). Im usually in the thick of it with the tank. Anything is possible in this game, its just a matter of effort and/or time.

newtinmpls · September 2020

Merforum wrote: »

Had another Fake Tank today, it happens about 50% when I run healer. Luckily he was doing high damage, which makes up for the other DPS dying and doing low DPS.

A friend and I had the sorta opposite issue yesterday...

I run tanks; and this particular run I was running a necro tank, still tweaking her build.

My friend runs a Stamina Sorc Dunmer "army build" with Maw of Infernal; Defiler (summons a hunger); Aegis Caller (summons a really cool Aegis/swordmaster). She kicks so much *ss that we could probably run most dungeons with just the two of us (heck she could probably do it alone - I have a ways to go for that).

So we get a very gung-*** healer who, bless her heart, was so devoted to keeping the tank (me) alive, that she tended to stand right next to me - I have no idea how she lived through everything. She also had a tendency to rush in and grab aggro (maybe throwing down ritual of retribution? Not 100% sure).

And the DPS....was kinda a wannabe tank. He was ... probably a dunmer? Not sure. He had a staff on one bar, and sword and board on the other (no, not kidding), did most of his damage from one hand and shield light or heavy attacks, but also threw down talons at times. If I remember correctly he would also occasionally chain folks.

It was actually kind of ... adorable. I think that he was kind of new to his role, maybe new to playing and just figuring it out.

Yeah we maybe could have kicked him, but hey we were living through it all, so why cause trouble.

They were both friendly in chat (my bar is low, they said "hi" and occasionally made or answered a comment), they were both willing to trade drops, and they were willing to wait when I realized I'd not cleared my inventory and had to Fez-i-fy.

So my bar for "fake" is are they trying....yes, check that.

Do we have enough DPS/Cooperation/Whatever to finish the run, even if it's slow...yes, check that.

Then I'm happy.