If you are a fake tank ...

Merforum

zvavi wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Have you ever tried grappling up as the tank? He immediately pulls you right back down if you try that...no way a tank can check all 3 before being pulled down by the boss.....I will qualify that with the fact I only tried this twice as a tank, so I stopped trying after that.

Yes. I did. I don't need to use the thing, only to check the amount of circles, so it doesn't matter if he pulls me back down. He can pull me down 4 times if he wants it I will keep grappling till I get all 3 places + 1 extra grapple to get better view on the circles. It still doesn't take long.

lozq wrote: »

I got called out as a 'fake tank' just now. In normal Darkshade I. With my level 30 Argonian DK. Running S+B front and *gasp* 2H backbar.

I tanked as I would normally tank any easy dungeon, full crowd control and taunting. But instead of chucking down blockade and pulling in mobs (no chains yet) I was just laying into the enemy with whatever the other morph of brawler is and breathing a bit of fire for fracture. The mighty 180cp DD took offense (probably because he had metrics and could see I was doing 70% of the group DPS) and outed me to the group as queue jumping, no-good fake tank.

Anyway. That's my confession.

If u taunt, u ain't a fake.

Fun Fact: you don't have to jump to all the platforms, literally just look up and which ever platform has an archer moving around and shooting bow THAT is the one you have to go to, you'll notice on the other platforms that archers are frozen.

Recently I as a tank had 2 guys saying they knew the dungeon but were taking way too long to find the correct platform and got us burned up once. Then the second time after I told them about the archer trick, they still couldn't do it so I had to. Unfortunately when I jumped down got 1 shot by boss. When you jump down you do take damage so got to watch out, and be ready to roll dodge boss hit, if health is too low to block. BTW I like it better when the boss pulls down because it does less or no damage, unlike jumping down.

BTW you are right another side effect of all the Fake Tanks is that when you are leveling up you might get kicked. But you can solve that issue by saying in the beginning 'just leveling up so don't have all Tank gear/skill yet'. Also I usually say 'every1 know this' to see who knows the dungeon. If they are all low level I say 'are you leveling up new toon or beginners'. Wish they would put CP# next to lvl for less than 50. Sometimes I say 'testing new build' just so they aren't so critical.

newtinmpls

Merforum wrote: »

another side effect of all the Fake Tanks is that when you are leveling up you might get kicked..

This doesn't make sense to me

Let me clarify - even leveling, the first darn skill on S&B is taunt.

The first passive on Frost staff turns it into a heavy attack taunt (if you run that way).

The first fighter's guild skill is silver shards - run around in a graveyard for a while, then morph it to leash - there is your pull.

The first Psijic order skill is time stop - there is your lockdown, if you don't have a class one already, or you can use Tangling Webs, it's the second Undaunted skill.

It is NOT difficult very very early on to get a workable bouquet of tanking skills, even on a relatively low character - and if you don't practice them early on, I have little hope that you will magically figure it out later.

So I have ZERO respect for sloppy tanking because "I'm leveling". If you are leveling as a DPS, then queue as one. If you are queuing as a tank, then please load your bar like one.

Merforum

newtinmpls wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

Had another Fake Tank today, it happens about 50% when I run healer. Luckily he was doing high damage, which makes up for the other DPS dying and doing low DPS.

A friend and I had the sorta opposite issue yesterday...

I run tanks; and this particular run I was running a necro tank, still tweaking her build.

My friend runs a Stamina Sorc Dunmer "army build" with Maw of Infernal; Defiler (summons a hunger); Aegis Caller (summons a really cool Aegis/swordmaster). She kicks so much *ss that we could probably run most dungeons with just the two of us (heck she could probably do it alone - I have a ways to go for that).

So we get a very gung-*** healer who, bless her heart, was so devoted to keeping the tank (me) alive, that she tended to stand right next to me - I have no idea how she lived through everything. She also had a tendency to rush in and grab aggro (maybe throwing down ritual of retribution? Not 100% sure).

And the DPS....was kinda a wannabe tank. He was ... probably a dunmer? Not sure. He had a staff on one bar, and sword and board on the other (no, not kidding), did most of his damage from one hand and shield light or heavy attacks, but also threw down talons at times. If I remember correctly he would also occasionally chain folks.

It was actually kind of ... adorable. I think that he was kind of new to his role, maybe new to playing and just figuring it out.

Yeah we maybe could have kicked him, but hey we were living through it all, so why cause trouble.

They were both friendly in chat (my bar is low, they said "hi" and occasionally made or answered a comment), they were both willing to trade drops, and they were willing to wait when I realized I'd not cleared my inventory and had to Fez-i-fy.

So my bar for "fake" is are they trying....yes, check that.

Do we have enough DPS/Cooperation/Whatever to finish the run, even if it's slow...yes, check that.

Then I'm happy.

I like that story. You are right, there is a huge difference between a FAKE whatever and an inexperienced player trying to learn and have fun. I was doing all kinds of stuff wrong until like CP400. Also I never played a game with controller and took me months to roll dodge and other stuff. I even have to change the bar swap button because I never could do it on the default without popping a potion or changing to first person view. Using keyboard/mouse for fighting is impossible for me too with arthritis.

The epidemic of very rude, impatient players who fake tank/fake heal to get into queue faster has ruined GF and made even nice people a bit impatient. I was thinking a good solution would be to add a button like the 'auto-accept' that says 'speed RUN' for people who just want to blow thru it (which I would use sometimes if I'm in a hurry) that allowed anyone even 4 dps, and if you don't check that box you go into the normal queue where beginners might be).

Merforum

newtinmpls wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

another side effect of all the Fake Tanks is that when you are leveling up you might get kicked..

This doesn't make sense to me

Let me clarify - even leveling, the first darn skill on S&B is taunt.

The first passive on Frost staff turns it into a heavy attack taunt (if you run that way).

The first fighter's guild skill is silver shards - run around in a graveyard for a while, then morph it to leash - there is your pull.

The first Psijic order skill is time stop - there is your lockdown, if you don't have a class one already, or you can use Tangling Webs, it's the second Undaunted skill.

It is NOT difficult very very early on to get a workable bouquet of tanking skills, even on a relatively low character - and if you don't practice them early on, I have little hope that you will magically figure it out later.

So I have ZERO respect for sloppy tanking because "I'm leveling". If you are leveling as a DPS, then queue as one. If you are queuing as a tank, then please load your bar like one.

I was referring to the poster that said he was doing all the tanking stuff correctly but since he was leveling up he only had 2h sword on back bar, which he used for damage. And he said he got kicked for that. My point was that all the FAKE TANKING has made people so impatient that they kick a legit tank who is actually honestly trying, leveling up.

But you are right, while leveling up it is probably better to queue as DPS if you mostly have DPS skills/gear. Even if you eventually want to be a tank, using 2hand and having DPS is usually easier to clear content. Then respec at level 50.

newtinmpls

Merforum wrote: »

I was referring to the poster that said he was doing all the tanking stuff correctly but since he was leveling up he only had 2h sword on back bar, which he used for damage. And he said he got kicked for that.

<rubbing forehead in frustration>

Okay....lets take it slow here.

The tank's job is to attempt to control the boss and adds.

Part of that is positioning, which at it's very simplest is a two part job:
1-taunt the boss
2-turn him around so that he's not facing the rest of the party.

Yes, I know some bosses are hard to taunt, and many have a weird random thing where they will hop over and randomly attack someone else, then somehow "remember"' that they were taunted and jump back to the tank.

So you have the boss "facing away", and you know the taunt will wear off so you will have to (every so often) keep re-applying it, and in order to have enough stamina to do that, there will be heavy attacks involved.

So there you are, alternately taunting and heavy attacking.

You still have more things to do.

3-Mess with the boss's effectiveness.
Some of this is buffs and debuffs, much of it is interrupting.

As you tank, you may note that the boss has certain "tells". Some bosses have a wind-up for a huge hit. Some have a "gathering magicka" thing, and sometimes you will note white lines or other signals. This would be the time to block...or maybe to interrupt. Yes, sometimes it "should be" one or "should be" the other. This is something to slowly learn about each boss.

There may be various buffs and debuffs that you can apply to make it easier for your party to damage the boss.

The S&B taunt, aside from the taunt also afflicts enemy with Major Fracture, reducing Physical Resistance by 5280 for 15 seconds.

If you are taunting with a Frost staff; Fully-charged Frost Heavy Attack taunts the enemy to attack you for 15 seconds and grant a damage shield that absorbs 699 damage.

If you are using the undaunted distance taunt; it has the following secondary ability: A Ranged ally targeting the taunted enemy has a 50% chance to activate the Radiate synergy, dealing 795 Magic Damage to them over 3 seconds then an additional 795 Magic Damage to them and other nearby enemies. This could be useful if you are running with a group of archers or distance attackers.

This list is ... well really long, and a lot depends on class, on how you think, on what "works well" in your head.

4-Keep an eye on the rest of the room

There may be other adds in the room. The boss may spawn groups of adds. There may be waves. It's the enemies that DON'T rush in that are generally more trouble. Archers are quite annoying, and can easily kill the squishier members of your party. Sorc's are as well. So this is something to keep an eye out; pull them in (chains if you are a DK, leash from Undaunted). This allows the DPSs to use area spells and keeps lots of people dying fast and your party alive.

WHOOPS

Forgot what I wanted to add in the first place:

Merforum wrote: »

he only had 2h sword on back bar, which he used for damage. And he said he got kicked for that.

My point (look at the list above and that's just the start) is that a tank ACTUALLY doing their JOB does not have time to spare to be back-bar-ing DPS. I suspect that this was a case of getting kicked for not tanking.

And I totally could be wrong, but there are a LOT of things a good tank will be doing, and DPS is generally not one of them.

.

josiahva

newtinmpls wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

I was referring to the poster that said he was doing all the tanking stuff correctly but since he was leveling up he only had 2h sword on back bar, which he used for damage. And he said he got kicked for that.

<rubbing forehead in frustration>

Okay....lets take it slow here.

The tank's job is to attempt to control the boss and adds.

Part of that is positioning, which at it's very simplest is a two part job:
1-taunt the boss
2-turn him around so that he's not facing the rest of the party.

Yes, I know some bosses are hard to taunt, and many have a weird random thing where they will hop over and randomly attack someone else, then somehow "remember"' that they were taunted and jump back to the tank.

So you have the boss "facing away", and you know the taunt will wear off so you will have to (every so often) keep re-applying it, and in order to have enough stamina to do that, there will be heavy attacks involved.

So there you are, alternately taunting and heavy attacking.

You still have more things to do.

3-Mess with the boss's effectiveness.
Some of this is buffs and debuffs, much of it is interrupting.

As you tank, you may note that the boss has certain "tells". Some bosses have a wind-up for a huge hit. Some have a "gathering magicka" thing, and sometimes you will note white lines or other signals. This would be the time to block...or maybe to interrupt. Yes, sometimes it "should be" one or "should be" the other. This is something to slowly learn about each boss.

There may be various buffs and debuffs that you can apply to make it easier for your party to damage the boss.

The S&B taunt, aside from the taunt also afflicts enemy with Major Fracture, reducing Physical Resistance by 5280 for 15 seconds.

If you are taunting with a Frost staff; Fully-charged Frost Heavy Attack taunts the enemy to attack you for 15 seconds and grant a damage shield that absorbs 699 damage.

If you are using the undaunted distance taunt; it has the following secondary ability: A Ranged ally targeting the taunted enemy has a 50% chance to activate the Radiate synergy, dealing 795 Magic Damage to them over 3 seconds then an additional 795 Magic Damage to them and other nearby enemies. This could be useful if you are running with a group of archers or distance attackers.

This list is ... well really long, and a lot depends on class, on how you think, on what "works well" in your head.

4-Keep an eye on the rest of the room

There may be other adds in the room. The boss may spawn groups of adds. There may be waves. It's the enemies that DON'T rush in that are generally more trouble. Archers are quite annoying, and can easily kill the squishier members of your party. Sorc's are as well. So this is something to keep an eye out; pull them in (chains if you are a DK, leash from Undaunted). This allows the DPSs to use area spells and keeps lots of people dying fast and your party alive.

WHOOPS

Forgot what I wanted to add in the first place:

Merforum wrote: »

he only had 2h sword on back bar, which he used for damage. And he said he got kicked for that.

My point (look at the list above and that's just the start) is that a tank ACTUALLY doing their JOB does not have time to spare to be back-bar-ing DPS. I suspect that this was a case of getting kicked for not tanking.

And I totally could be wrong, but there are a LOT of things a good tank will be doing, and DPS is generally not one of them.

.

You are wrong. It is true that the tank has a lot going on that he has to keep up with...but that does NOT mean there isn't time to do other things. I back bar a resto staff for example when pugging vDSA and I also default to it for most vet DLC dungeons. A general mob or boss fight goes like this:

1. Drag in/taunt all the ads and/or boss...usually using pierce armor, this applies major fracture and major breach(at the very least the ones that are dangerous...this will depend on the specific fight.
2. CC the mob with a root...usually choking talons or the like...this also debuffs their damage for x amount of time.
3. Swap to backbar and attack, hopefully proccing crusher enchant.
4. Swap back to front bar and use igneous shield and bone shield, boosting group defense if they are close enough to grab a shield
5. At this point I consciously swap to back bar again in an effort to proc imperium set(Its only 3 pieces mainbar, which allows me to control when it procs by weapon swapping). I am now essentially done doing my tanking stuff until I need to refresh the taunt and start my quasi-rotation over again. Since I am now on my backbar, if I have the resources I can now cast combat prayer to help boost group damage...even if healer is running combat prayer, by running it as well I can help with uptime since DDs never stack in front of the healer it seems...after combat prayer I will throw orbs at the group, and if needed drop a blood altar...I also have healing ward on the backbar for an emergency heal/damage mitigation for struggling DDs(very useful to have if I need to keep a DD alive while they are rezzing the healer or other DD)

My particular tank backbar is set up with healing and defense in mind....but it could just as easily be offensively focused if I chose to wear something that would let me DPS a bit better. The amount of resources a tank is going to be able to devote to off-healing or off-DPSing is of course to depend on how hard it is to stay alive in a given fight...but if I have extra resources available, why wouldn't I contribute to heals or DPS in any way I could?

That being said, it takes awhile to learn to handle all the things you can be doing at once while tanking and you shouldn't actually expect any such thing from a tank...and as a tank you have to know WHEN you can be doing those things and when its simply too dangerous to be bar swapping(easy to be one-shot during a bar swap) or when your resources are too low to contribute.

AvalonRanger

If you are fake tank, you are making fake DPS role because of you.
This is the biggest reason, why we can't make pure DPS character for the PUG.

I don't want to call guild member tank just only for the normal dungeon run.
So I made my character hybrid style DPS, can't build it pure DPS style character.

I can accept fake tank for the normal speed run, but, If your character can't kill
every Western-Skyrim WB by solo. Do not use fake role. It's a disgusting behavior.
No thanks.

ZOS_Exile

Greetings, we have closed this topic as it was originally created in June 2020. In many cases, it's better to create a new thread on a topic that you want to discuss as opposed to bumping one that is rather old. Thank you for your understanding.