Why PVP is so broken in this game?

ChaosWotan · September 2020

My main is a very experienced but unskilled nb snipe ganker taking flags and brawling too much for his own good. A talented gamer with a balanced setup can kill 10+ like me in a brawl.

The pvp elite kill and have fun like Cyro is almost a shabby esport arena with plenty of lag. It's therefore not proof of imbalance that some highly skilled gamers will occasionally massacre a lot of relatively unskilled players. That's just life.

One can complain about many things in ESO, but those who actually are talented gamers, for real, deserve respect instead of being accused of exploiting an unbalanced game.

Ackwalan · September 2020

Bash
Bash
Bash
Bash
...
...
...
Pick up AP

mattaeus01b16_ESO · September 2020

coletas wrote: »

if 10 players cant kill a player is just that there is not even 1 skilled player in there. All casual players or players with less than 6-12 months xp.

NO one would survive him 1on1 even with the most purely tank (not damaging) build

The problem is that people goes min-max. Hey... im dps, so my build is full dps... i can 2 shots lots of people but I die to any skilled player. Or hey! im a tank, so my build is tanky... i never kill anybody and i always end dying or running bored. Or hey! im a healer, so i run a super cool healer build on PvP and of course, i always die, dont know why...

you are the type of nightblade that only kill ganking or non tanky players? you need to learn more. You need to make the tank to waste resources first.... is an example...

To you all people with less than 12 months experience... take a BALANCED build, and MASTER It. If you dont feel confortable, keep trying.

FOR ME (i can be mistaken, of course), as a rule of balance... if you run less than (all unbuffed) 2500 impen, less than 25k resistances or less than 3000 wd/sd and 5k Pen, you cant be fighting EVERY other class comfortably.

/Anytime players can have stacks of defense that prevent them from dying, but they can also turn and two-shot people is the definition of unbalanced./

which class cant do that? i play against all sort of classes that do that. All cheating? nooo... i bet that absolutely no one. All exploiting "unbalanced" things?? noo... everyone has the same access to all except summerset (psijics), necros, wardens or the new rings. Is that unbalanced? No. is pay to win a little more (last thing I bought was summerset anyway and i wont do that boring psijic line).

do you think that copying the same build, skills, class etc you would do the same in less than 6-12 months than a guy that is playing it since years??? You are mistaken. Even in simple gameplays like bombers, experience is ALL. An experencied bomber with worst build on earth will kill more than a newbie with an ultradestroyer build. And this is a simple example. Imagine more complex gameplays like non-bow gankers, magdens, stamplars or any sorcs

play all u can and learn all you can. Crying wont solve anything.
oh, sorry, i didnt remember that game was unplayable lol

See OP! Alls you need to do is spend the next 6 months to a year with your team PVPing. And then you might stand a chance! Its not unbalanced at all!

Andre_Noir · September 2020

ChaosWotan wrote: »

My main is a very experienced but unskilled nb snipe ganker taking flags and brawling too much for his own good. A talented gamer with a balanced setup can kill 10+ like me in a brawl.

The pvp elite kill and have fun like Cyro is almost a shabby esport arena with plenty of lag. It's therefore not proof of imbalance that some highly skilled gamers will occasionally massacre a lot of relatively unskilled players. That's just life.

One can complain about many things in ESO, but those who actually are talented gamers, for real, deserve respect instead of being accused of exploiting an unbalanced game.

Oh my... Daedra of narcissism appears

ChaosWotan · September 2020

Haha, yup I kill 10+. If you don't like it, that's your problem. Gut git!

Kosef · September 2020

Eliran wrote: »

I honestly gave up the moment I saw an entire army of 10+ people trying to take down 1 guy but cant because he is immortal, killing them 1 by 1.

I am sorry if I hurt anyone feelings, but that is 100% not skill but abuse of broken mechanics

That's ZoS even remotely allow this broken stuff to happen, already prove how neglected the PVP scene is, I've never had such a bad PVP experience in my life and I've played hundreds of PVP games in my gaming life.

This is simply a whole new level of imbalance, its exactly the same as playing Diablo 3 and going from zero to hero the moment you finish your set items, there its PVE, here its PVP.

I'm more impressed at the guy taking on 10 in pvp. The more alarming thing is that there are 10+ people zerging 1 guy.

coletas · September 2020

mattaeus01b16_ESO wrote: »

coletas wrote: »

if 10 players cant kill a player is just that there is not even 1 skilled player in there. All casual players or players with less than 6-12 months xp.

NO one would survive him 1on1 even with the most purely tank (not damaging) build

The problem is that people goes min-max. Hey... im dps, so my build is full dps... i can 2 shots lots of people but I die to any skilled player. Or hey! im a tank, so my build is tanky... i never kill anybody and i always end dying or running bored. Or hey! im a healer, so i run a super cool healer build on PvP and of course, i always die, dont know why...

you are the type of nightblade that only kill ganking or non tanky players? you need to learn more. You need to make the tank to waste resources first.... is an example...

To you all people with less than 12 months experience... take a BALANCED build, and MASTER It. If you dont feel confortable, keep trying.

FOR ME (i can be mistaken, of course), as a rule of balance... if you run less than (all unbuffed) 2500 impen, less than 25k resistances or less than 3000 wd/sd and 5k Pen, you cant be fighting EVERY other class comfortably.

/Anytime players can have stacks of defense that prevent them from dying, but they can also turn and two-shot people is the definition of unbalanced./

which class cant do that? i play against all sort of classes that do that. All cheating? nooo... i bet that absolutely no one. All exploiting "unbalanced" things?? noo... everyone has the same access to all except summerset (psijics), necros, wardens or the new rings. Is that unbalanced? No. is pay to win a little more (last thing I bought was summerset anyway and i wont do that boring psijic line).

do you think that copying the same build, skills, class etc you would do the same in less than 6-12 months than a guy that is playing it since years??? You are mistaken. Even in simple gameplays like bombers, experience is ALL. An experencied bomber with worst build on earth will kill more than a newbie with an ultradestroyer build. And this is a simple example. Imagine more complex gameplays like non-bow gankers, magdens, stamplars or any sorcs

play all u can and learn all you can. Crying wont solve anything.
oh, sorry, i didnt remember that game was unplayable lol

See OP! Alls you need to do is spend the next 6 months to a year with your team PVPing. And then you might stand a chance! Its not unbalanced at all!

a skilled player with a completely different build of another skilled player can be dueling for years usually. If you add one noob with the same build. He Will die and keep fighting forever. With 2 more noobs you maybe have an oportunity of kill him, but usually 3 Will die, and one Will be still there. What i want to say is that is nothing to be with builds, skills, etc but experience and the way to play, to survive, and to kill.

after some months, yes, u Will be able to kill much more and defend much better. And always u Will find new surprises that Will kill you. And thats fun and balances. Because the other guy has been more inteligent and more skilled than you. And if you take It like a sport, u Will learn, have fun, and usually will make Friends. If not, you can try other pvp games or cry trying to destroy one of the best pvp systems out there (lag and Bugs apart) because you can loose all the time in the world doing boring pve but cant wait to have the reward of killing someone or defend from someone in a comfiable way. Is much more fun to each one take a sword and the first who hit the other more times, die. Sure. Much more fun.

and, no, i usually play alone. And dont need anybody to learn pvp. Just duel people and you will learn. Nothing Will teach you more than duels . Challenges are fun. Tic tac toe it isnt.

coletas · September 2020

Kosef wrote: »

Eliran wrote: »

I honestly gave up the moment I saw an entire army of 10+ people trying to take down 1 guy but cant because he is immortal, killing them 1 by 1.

I am sorry if I hurt anyone feelings, but that is 100% not skill but abuse of broken mechanics

That's ZoS even remotely allow this broken stuff to happen, already prove how neglected the PVP scene is, I've never had such a bad PVP experience in my life and I've played hundreds of PVP games in my gaming life.

This is simply a whole new level of imbalance, its exactly the same as playing Diablo 3 and going from zero to hero the moment you finish your set items, there its PVE, here its PVP.

I'm more impressed at the guy taking on 10 in pvp. The more alarming thing is that there are 10+ people zerging 1 guy.

if zos would give 10k more of all resources, 2k more of wd/sd and 1k more regen to everbody with less than rank ¿20? in next pvp event the result would be same. The same zerg, and the same victims. At least they wont have an excuse to l2p.

Adernath · September 2020

Playing since beta. As I went to cyro the first time, I immediately recognized how imbalanced the game is (and I have much experience in PvP in wow and neverwinter). In particular this concerned gap closer spam of heavy armor users. The only thing which kept me playing from now and then is the challenge to run a non-meta build and the hope that one day we get competent people to improve balance (Blizzard is just awesome in this regard).

In my opinion every build must lead to a clear point in a triangle (like the character creation in ESO) concerning:

1. Damage output
2. Resouce regen
3. Damage mitigation

So for example, if there is much damage mitigation, then this must always lead to a lack in point 1 and 2. - period. Unfortunately we seem to be far away from this.

YandereGirlfriend · September 2020

The real question is why is OP trying to battle one random 1vX'er?

Getting drawn into a 1vX is like the hallmark of an inexperienced player. They go in thinking that it will be an easy kill and then get mercilessly humbled. Often repeatedly. I know this because that's how I started my PvP journey as well.

Next time you see a 1vX happening my advice is just to keep on riding.

But 1vX'ers absolutely can be killed, including (at least in non-CP formats) by a single player running a very high damage build. Otherwise, experienced and smaller groups will coordinate their ult dumps, CC abilities, and combos to take them down. The 1vX'er survives against inexperienced players because those players rarely, if ever, take advantage of their numbers when doing damage or CC'ing.

And if you still don't like the flavor of combat then move into non-CP formats. It's much harder to 1vX there and builds require more obvious trade-offs since you aren't receiving any stats or mitigation for free via CP.

Shardaxx · September 2020

People used to fight in pvp. It was fun! Then the tactic became running away hoping the enemy follows you, then turn and drop your ult, then run away again. Then it became ball groups who all run away at the same time, turn and drop their ults, then get back to running away. It's gotten less fun.

I've seen the tanks you're talking about here. They can kite entire groups around, partly due to the lag and difficulty in targeting players who rapidly run around corners then reverse back the other way. These tanks (DKs usually, but not always) can happily kite groups around for minutes without dying, and drop their ults to kill some players while they do it.

There's a lot wrong with the pvp - the lag, the DCs, the zergs, the fact the map has had 1 minor change in the 6 years or so its been out, the fact some classes are way OP compared to others, the fact that players can run thro each other or even hide on the same spot is a zergs paradise. Unfortunately there isn't another game anything like it, on PS4 at least (PC players have lots of other choices).

Parasaurolophus · September 2020

The most experienced pvp players I know have been playing necromancers and wardens for a long time. The most experienced pvp players I know started out with dk. It is foolish to deny that the balance in pvp is bad. It is too much directed towards vitality, not even helping 20% of the nerfs of healing.

Chaos2088 · September 2020

pretty much everything is broken atm with this game.

Augustus67 · September 2020

I saw 2 unkillable players in IC today,both were Stamcros,20 plus people on them,unkillable..One of them kept 2 bomblades with him and would mop up all the players that were attacking.No they were not noobs or unskilled,many of them have been playing with or against me for 5 years.

FlopsyPrince · September 2020

ChaosWotan wrote: »

My main is a very experienced but unskilled nb snipe ganker taking flags and brawling too much for his own good. A talented gamer with a balanced setup can kill 10+ like me in a brawl.

The pvp elite kill and have fun like Cyro is almost a shabby esport arena with plenty of lag. It's therefore not proof of imbalance that some highly skilled gamers will occasionally massacre a lot of relatively unskilled players. That's just life.

One can complain about many things in ESO, but those who actually are talented gamers, for real, deserve respect instead of being accused of exploiting an unbalanced game.

Act respectful and I may respect you. Continue ganking the same player and I won't.

I just got ganked multiple times in the middle of a big group by someone who knew I was a soft target so he kept going after me. He ran away when he couldn't do the same to another player. He lives for killing the weak, not serious play.

Not deserving respect!

FlopsyPrince · September 2020

Augustus67 wrote: »

I saw 2 unkillable players in IC today,both were Stamcros,20 plus people on them,unkillable..One of them kept 2 bomblades with him and would mop up all the players that were attacking.No they were not noobs or unskilled,many of them have been playing with or against me for 5 years.

And that is why PvP is broken.

So what do they do? Nerf PvE players to make them weaker!

Sanctum74 · September 2020

Augustus67 wrote: »

I saw 2 unkillable players in IC today,both were Stamcros,20 plus people on them,unkillable..One of them kept 2 bomblades with him and would mop up all the players that were attacking.No they were not noobs or unskilled,many of them have been playing with or against me for 5 years.

I haven’t seen an unkillable player in the last 2 patch cycles although stamcro can be ridiculously tanky.

FlopsyPrince · September 2020

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Augustus67 wrote: »

I saw 2 unkillable players in IC today,both were Stamcros,20 plus people on them,unkillable..One of them kept 2 bomblades with him and would mop up all the players that were attacking.No they were not noobs or unskilled,many of them have been playing with or against me for 5 years.

I haven’t seen an unkillable player in the last 2 patch cycles although stamcro can be ridiculously tanky.

That is a relative term. When they continually kill large groups they are "unkillable" even if they can technically be killed.

ChaosWotan · September 2020

"Act respectful and I may respect you. Continue ganking the same player and I won't."

Sniping and nb stealth kills don't deserve respect. The nb class is about thievery and assassinations, two activities seldom associated with respect. But it can be fun rpg. It's not exciting however to attack the weak. It's lame and boring.

If I see a target with 15k hp in no-cp Cyro I will snipe instinctively, to perhaps get 1.6k ap, but will not repeat it. More game to snipe somebody with 25-35k hp and then go in with bridle claws. This one often gets sent to Oblivion with this tactic, but it's such a lovely place

Newbies in Cyro who are tired of being gank magnets: get tanky. If you have more than 35k hp few will attempt to instakill you.

West93 · September 2020

I am surprised by how many players don't even cc break or heal themselves while being at execute range health bar.

Balance is never perfect, but ESO pvp combat is still best out there, you have all the options to react, block, dodge, kite, time burst etc. Wheels are in your hands to do this (though not always because of lag).

Also if half of those 10 people would time their ulti at same moment together with cc I bet 1 million gold that unkillable player would be dead.

Sanctum74 · September 2020

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Augustus67 wrote: »

I saw 2 unkillable players in IC today,both were Stamcros,20 plus people on them,unkillable..One of them kept 2 bomblades with him and would mop up all the players that were attacking.No they were not noobs or unskilled,many of them have been playing with or against me for 5 years.

I haven’t seen an unkillable player in the last 2 patch cycles although stamcro can be ridiculously tanky.

That is a relative term. When they continually kill large groups they are "unkillable" even if they can technically be killed.

It’s not relative, its either they’re unkillable or they’re not. Theres too many false accusations of being unkillable, secret builds, or exploiting mechanics which is just not true. Some people are just better players and have a better knowledge of the game. There is no amount of nerfing or balancing that will change that.

ChaosWotan · September 2020

And the elite guys and gals finishing hm vet dungeons ... they are all cheaters!

coletas · September 2020

ChaosWotan wrote: »

And the elite guys and gals finishing hm vet dungeons ... they are all cheaters!

after 5 years playing mostly pvp I wasted 200 gems on vma until I seen i could res on that things to res... so i was killed like 300 times....

...and i still get 'cheater' whispers when in many 1vsX lol

i wouldnt cry in the forums "heyyy... Nerf vma" lol i know next time would be 295, Next 290, Next 280... and the true is that i wont play vma again... because i dont like It. Its so difficult to say "hey, i dont like pvp... i dont want that big challenge... or maybe the reward is not enough for me" ??? you want a non-vet-vma for pvp? great, ask for a campaign, but dont touch a challenge pvp Game that non-casual pvpers enjoy like you enjoy your trials, arenas, etc etc. You want to convert pvp in overland where no skill is needed for anything? where wont be any fun surprise (tricks, way to play etc), any fun new Monster (builds) to fight? Nice, then try any other mmorpg... almost are that way (and boring as hell)

coletas · September 2020

Augustus67 wrote: »

I saw 2 unkillable players in IC today,both were Stamcros,20 plus people on them,unkillable..One of them kept 2 bomblades with him and would mop up all the players that were attacking.No they were not noobs or unskilled,many of them have been playing with or against me for 5 years.

20 skilled players playing in a 2 stamcros field (i bet under a stairs with a nice LoS) and 20 skilled guys deleted by 2 bombers...

... sorry but sounds anything but "skilled" lol how many where using caltrops? turn Evil? corrupting pollen? det pots? fossilize? dark flare... any??

xxslam48xxb14_ESO · September 2020

Eliran wrote: »

I honestly gave up the moment I saw an entire army of 10+ people trying to take down 1 guy but cant because he is immortal, killing them 1 by 1.

I am sorry if I hurt anyone feelings, but that is 100% not skill but abuse of broken mechanics

That's ZoS even remotely allow this broken stuff to happen, already prove how neglected the PVP scene is, I've never had such a bad PVP experience in my life and I've played hundreds of PVP games in my gaming life.

This is simply a whole new level of imbalance, its exactly the same as playing Diablo 3 and going from zero to hero the moment you finish your set items, there its PVE, here its PVP.

Its not even just tanks and 1vXers doing this wild *** either. 1vXers rely on kiting and abusing los, but every now and then you run into someone that takes hits like a tank, but deals out burst like a glass cannon. Been playing since the damn beta and I still don't know wtf that is. Its not skillful to stand your ground and do burst combos, so its clearly some kind of busted build.

Its really an Eso issue, played Wow for a while and never seen 1 person take on ten people and win. At most someone might take 3 people at once and BARELY win. Wow is just a better balanced game, you can't have huge burst and huge resistances and huge heals! Wow forces you to pick ONE and that is your role in pvp. Kinda wish equipment would get removed from pvp next, since we already have no cp battlegrounds. Why not go one step further and really remove all the non skill related advantages from pvp.

Its primarily gear and cp that allows and enables these busted builds. Got dark souls tier roll spammers gliding away from all problems while 5+ people try to land a single hit. Its really disgusting and probably why so many people try to kill as fast as possible. Your opponent can't roll spam or 1 shot you if you do the same thing to them first.

SeaGtGruff · September 2020

I have no problem with 1 player who can hold their own against 10 enemy players and pick them off 1 by 1.

I do have a problem with 10 or more players who think they're proving what great PvPers they are by taking on lone players.

Whatever.

Pauwer · September 2020

Was he/she circling a tree or rock or something? The moment they start doing that, just leave man and let them play merry-go-around by themselves

Banana · September 2020

Some people are very good at PvP. Best to avoid it if your easily upset.

thalosdaedra · September 2020

need fix

Firstmep · September 2020

ZoS has done a lot in recent patches to nerf sets that enabled this sort of playstyle, but then they introduced Malacaths band of Brutality, which put us back right where we were.
My 38k hp stamina warden can easily rip 6-7k sub assaults and dizzy swings on most ppl, while having hands down the best self healing in the game. You throw in heavy armour and sword and board mitigation, and you have the recipe for disaster.
I can pull of similar stuff on my stamcro too, altough that class takes a sliver more skill to play.
And you dont even need to run defensive set, clever alch, new moon, malacath, balorgh and 1 pc trainee and your set.

Just stay on your backbar, use a bit of LOS and rotate heals and buffs until you can go on the offensive.
Warden is already built for high burst damage over sustained damage anyway.

On the healing side you have the best hp scaling heal in the game arctic blast, easy access to minor lifesteal, major mending etc.
High ultimate generation to nearly spam defensive ults.
And all the % damage increase modifiers you could even want.

Broken? Very.

You can achieve similar stuff on lets say a rolly polly nightblade where you just kite and roll around and just general be untouchable, but i dont think anything comes even close to what stamdens can do right now.

I really wish they didnt introduce malacath to the game, beacuse it pretty much reset multiple patches worth of work to nerf this kinda tanky bruiser playstyle.