Why PVP is so broken in this game?

Eliran · September 2020

I honestly gave up the moment I saw an entire army of 10+ people trying to take down 1 guy but cant because he is immortal, killing them 1 by 1.

I am sorry if I hurt anyone feelings, but that is 100% not skill but abuse of broken mechanics

That's ZoS even remotely allow this broken stuff to happen, already prove how neglected the PVP scene is, I've never had such a bad PVP experience in my life and I've played hundreds of PVP games in my gaming life.

This is simply a whole new level of imbalance, its exactly the same as playing Diablo 3 and going from zero to hero the moment you finish your set items, there its PVE, here its PVP.

gatekeeper13 · September 2020

What class was he?

I ve noticed some people being super tanky and at the same time capable of doing high dmg but never seen them taking out 10 players by themselves.

Truth is PVP in ESO is very unbalanced as it favors high dmg mitigation, insane resource recovery and high dmg at the same time for some specific set and class combinations e.g. carrymancers.

Ri_Khan · September 2020

In b4 "cuz muh 1337 skilzzz" types...

This game is chock-full of exploits and has never had any semblance of balance.

NeillMcAttack · September 2020

It is lot better than it was honestly. But it gets old real quick I find building tanky very effective but it just leads to meeting other players built similarly around these burst windows where the fight can last literally forever, helped a great by CP, which is why no-cp will always be my preferred version of PvP in ESO.

But you can’t say it doesn’t take skill to play these builds. They are not exploiting anything. It takes time to learn a build, to be sure you are pressing the right skill every second, to building tanky, building to be able to manage your resources well, adding damage where you can, always watching your opponent and reacting well, and then timing your burst to do the most possible. By the very definition of what skill is, it takes a lot of skill to hang with these players.

HappyTheCamper · September 2020

Anytime players can have stacks of defense that prevent them from dying, but they can also turn and two-shot people is the definition of unbalanced.

NeillMcAttack · September 2020

HappyTheCamper wrote: »

Anytime players can have stacks of defense that prevent them from dying, but they can also turn and two-shot people is the definition of unbalanced.

The only unbalance is the understanding and ability of players. The game is what it is. ZOS made the decision to promote CP PvP, by having it at the top of the list, and in many of their recent balance decisions. The BS healing nerf, and the proc centric damage builds. If you disagree with these decisions you can voice your opinion and ask for them to balance toward No-CP where there is already a better foundation for making the game more accessible for more players. But you can't say that any of these WELL BUILT players are doing anything wrong, or that the game is unbalanced, this is the game, learn it or leave it!

Sanctum74 · September 2020

Everyone has access to the same things, that’s balanced, but you can never balance skill or knowledge of game mechanics. That takes time and that’s why so many people love eso combat.

gatekeeper13 · September 2020

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

HappyTheCamper wrote: »

Anytime players can have stacks of defense that prevent them from dying, but they can also turn and two-shot people is the definition of unbalanced.

The only unbalance is the understanding and ability of players. The game is what it is. ZOS made the decision to promote CP PvP, by having it at the top of the list, and in many of their recent balance decisions. The BS healing nerf, and the proc centric damage builds. If you disagree with these decisions you can voice your opinion and ask for them to balance toward No-CP where there is already a better foundation for making the game more accessible for more players. But you can't say that any of these WELL BUILT players are doing anything wrong, or that the game is unbalanced, this is the game, learn it or leave it!

By saying that "the game is what it is" and "learn it or leave it" you don't prove it is balanced. The fact that some players take advantage of various game imbalances and adapt on them doesn't mean it is balanced.

A balanced game would let you deal high dmg at the expense of dmg mitigation or give you high mitigation at the expense of dmg or both at the expense of resource regen. Not provide you with 100% dmg mitigation simply for roll-dodging, high dmg and endless resources. It's a joke.

And that's not my opinion only. Various (VERY) experienced PVP players in my guild also believe that pvp in eso is a joke in terms of balance.

TequilaFire · September 2020

Knowledge and having the skill to use it is so OP.

Eliran · September 2020

Either playing a certain class/build and being immortal or die in 2 seconds is not balance.

Really sorry to burst your bubble.

There should never ever be a situation where 5 not 10, but merely 5 people do a full rotation on you, and you don't die, its just stupid.

Its stupid when some people have to work so hard for so little while someone else just use some broken "secret" build and become a Molag Bal walking the earth playing god mode.

I honestly find it hard to tell the difference between that or using any other game breaking exploit.

dsalter · September 2020

Eliran wrote: »

Either playing a certain class/build and being immortal or die in 2 seconds is not balance.

Really sorry to burst your bubble.

I honestly find it hard to tell the difference between that or using any other game breaking exploit.

this on so many levels.
i used to help balance a very heavily used neverwinter nights server back in the day when it was popular (not the trash mmo the actual game) and one issue we would run into alot is some players finding cheese in our tweaks and shifts to dominate the masses, those would be addressed immediately because nothing drives away players like a one sided meta.

and before anyone attempts it, no we knew some things were semi meta for short periods of time, thats why we would adjust and tweak the balance so that when to many people started using the same setup we would tip the scales in another direction for people to figure out the next meta, this ment that the same best in slot was never best in slot for to long. our main goal was to shift whenever about 12% of the players started using the newly tweaked balance, if it went over that line it was to good and popular so we would tweak it down alittle and buff some other things to attempt to shift the spread of classes, abilities and sub races.

halfling monk was the hardest thing to balance.

this kind of crap was very hard to balance that is why we used soft and hard caps on stats to help us control the scales.
when ESO removed the soft and hard caps they broke their balance ability.

coletas · September 2020

if 10 players cant kill a player is just that there is not even 1 skilled player in there. All casual players or players with less than 6-12 months xp.

NO one would survive him 1on1 even with the most purely tank (not damaging) build

The problem is that people goes min-max. Hey... im dps, so my build is full dps... i can 2 shots lots of people but I die to any skilled player. Or hey! im a tank, so my build is tanky... i never kill anybody and i always end dying or running bored. Or hey! im a healer, so i run a super cool healer build on PvP and of course, i always die, dont know why...

you are the type of nightblade that only kill ganking or non tanky players? you need to learn more. You need to make the tank to waste resources first.... is an example...

To you all people with less than 12 months experience... take a BALANCED build, and MASTER It. If you dont feel confortable, keep trying.

FOR ME (i can be mistaken, of course), as a rule of balance... if you run less than (all unbuffed) 2500 impen, less than 25k resistances or less than 3000 wd/sd and 5k Pen, you cant be fighting EVERY other class comfortably.

/Anytime players can have stacks of defense that prevent them from dying, but they can also turn and two-shot people is the definition of unbalanced./

which class cant do that? i play against all sort of classes that do that. All cheating? nooo... i bet that absolutely no one. All exploiting "unbalanced" things?? noo... everyone has the same access to all except summerset (psijics), necros, wardens or the new rings. Is that unbalanced? No. is pay to win a little more (last thing I bought was summerset anyway and i wont do that boring psijic line).

do you think that copying the same build, skills, class etc you would do the same in less than 6-12 months than a guy that is playing it since years??? You are mistaken. Even in simple gameplays like bombers, experience is ALL. An experencied bomber with worst build on earth will kill more than a newbie with an ultradestroyer build. And this is a simple example. Imagine more complex gameplays like non-bow gankers, magdens, stamplars or any sorcs

play all u can and learn all you can. Crying wont solve anything.
oh, sorry, i didnt remember that game was unplayable lol

stybbe17b16_ESO · September 2020

Well building an unique character is half the fun for pvp in a mmorpg. If it was all about skill we all would be playing chess or counter strike. Just because you can't theory craft a build doesnt mean other shouldn't be allowed to.

dsalter · September 2020

reintroduce the soft and hard caps. enough said.

AMeanOne · September 2020

This is truly a l2p moment. If ten people are throwing out weak attacks and giving out cc immunity, just not coordinating, then the 1 person has an easy time picking the group apart.

Gilvoth · September 2020

Eliran wrote: »

I honestly gave up the moment I saw an entire army of 10+ people trying to take down 1 guy but cant because he is immortal, killing them 1 by 1.

I am sorry if I hurt anyone feelings, but that is 100% not skill but abuse of broken mechanics

That's ZoS even remotely allow this broken stuff to happen, already prove how neglected the PVP scene is, I've never had such a bad PVP experience in my life and I've played hundreds of PVP games in my gaming life.

This is simply a whole new level of imbalance, its exactly the same as playing Diablo 3 and going from zero to hero the moment you finish your set items, there its PVE, here its PVP.

Amen! well said.
you are correct, and it has been this way since beta. i pray one day it is fixed and changed, we see adjustments and it is slowly evolving, and changes made, but the fact remains just as you have said.

coletas · September 2020

Gilvoth wrote: »

Eliran wrote: »

I honestly gave up the moment I saw an entire army of 10+ people trying to take down 1 guy but cant because he is immortal, killing them 1 by 1.

I am sorry if I hurt anyone feelings, but that is 100% not skill but abuse of broken mechanics

That's ZoS even remotely allow this broken stuff to happen, already prove how neglected the PVP scene is, I've never had such a bad PVP experience in my life and I've played hundreds of PVP games in my gaming life.

This is simply a whole new level of imbalance, its exactly the same as playing Diablo 3 and going from zero to hero the moment you finish your set items, there its PVE, here its PVP.

Amen! well said.
you are correct, and it has been this way since beta. i pray one day it is fixed and changed, we see adjustments and it is slowly evolving, and changes made, but the fact remains just as you have said.

fixed? to what? i think this sort of people (no ofense) would be crying even in PvP models like Sea of Thieves (everyone exactly the same build, same damage and same everything except aspect).

Gilvoth · September 2020

coletas wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

Eliran wrote: »

I honestly gave up the moment I saw an entire army of 10+ people trying to take down 1 guy but cant because he is immortal, killing them 1 by 1.

I am sorry if I hurt anyone feelings, but that is 100% not skill but abuse of broken mechanics

That's ZoS even remotely allow this broken stuff to happen, already prove how neglected the PVP scene is, I've never had such a bad PVP experience in my life and I've played hundreds of PVP games in my gaming life.

This is simply a whole new level of imbalance, its exactly the same as playing Diablo 3 and going from zero to hero the moment you finish your set items, there its PVE, here its PVP.

Amen! well said.
you are correct, and it has been this way since beta. i pray one day it is fixed and changed, we see adjustments and it is slowly evolving, and changes made, but the fact remains just as you have said.

fixed? to what? i think this sort of people (no ofense) would be crying even in PvP models like Sea of Thieves (everyone exactly the same build, same damage and same everything except aspect).

you prefer your weapon does 2000 damage while mine does 20 damage?
and that your armor defends 5000 in defenses while mine only protects against 200 damage?

Major_Lag · September 2020

coletas wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

Eliran wrote: »

I honestly gave up the moment I saw an entire army of 10+ people trying to take down 1 guy but cant because he is immortal, killing them 1 by 1.

I am sorry if I hurt anyone feelings, but that is 100% not skill but abuse of broken mechanics

That's ZoS even remotely allow this broken stuff to happen, already prove how neglected the PVP scene is, I've never had such a bad PVP experience in my life and I've played hundreds of PVP games in my gaming life.

This is simply a whole new level of imbalance, its exactly the same as playing Diablo 3 and going from zero to hero the moment you finish your set items, there its PVE, here its PVP.

Amen! well said.
you are correct, and it has been this way since beta. i pray one day it is fixed and changed, we see adjustments and it is slowly evolving, and changes made, but the fact remains just as you have said.

fixed? to what? i think this sort of people (no ofense) would be crying even in PvP models like Sea of Thieves (everyone exactly the same build, same damage and same everything except aspect).

Amen to that.

In the past, I did play some multiplayer games of this kind - in many of the maps, there were random item spawns and you could use whatever you picked up.
But there were also duelling/"arena" maps, where everyone was made to use the exact same loadout.

Guess what... even when everyone was restricted to only use the same builds as their opponents, there were still players who were better than others - some of them significantly so. Can't nerf player skill, after all.

Shantu · September 2020

Honestly, why ask why anymore? You'll get no answers...let alone a solution.

coletas · September 2020

Gilvoth wrote: »

coletas wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

Eliran wrote: »

I honestly gave up the moment I saw an entire army of 10+ people trying to take down 1 guy but cant because he is immortal, killing them 1 by 1.

I am sorry if I hurt anyone feelings, but that is 100% not skill but abuse of broken mechanics

That's ZoS even remotely allow this broken stuff to happen, already prove how neglected the PVP scene is, I've never had such a bad PVP experience in my life and I've played hundreds of PVP games in my gaming life.

This is simply a whole new level of imbalance, its exactly the same as playing Diablo 3 and going from zero to hero the moment you finish your set items, there its PVE, here its PVP.

Amen! well said.
you are correct, and it has been this way since beta. i pray one day it is fixed and changed, we see adjustments and it is slowly evolving, and changes made, but the fact remains just as you have said.

fixed? to what? i think this sort of people (no ofense) would be crying even in PvP models like Sea of Thieves (everyone exactly the same build, same damage and same everything except aspect).

you prefer your weapon does 2000 damage while mine does 20 damage?
and that your armor defends 5000 in defenses while mine only protects against 200 damage?

??? what prevent you to have 2000 or 5000 like me???

relentless_turnip · September 2020

This happens during every PvP event.
Honestly it takes time, no one is exploiting, these sets, skills and classes are available to everyone. I regularly fight people outnumbered and during a PvP event a seasoned PvP player fighting 10 pve players is neither difficult or impressive.

I fought and killed at least 5 people in IC yesterday on my own with a warden bow/bow build. It is anything but meta and is *** compared to any of my other builds. Most of those people didn't even heal when they were low health despite all having over 800 cp. It is just inexperience and a lack of muscle memory when it comes to a defensive rotation. Also lacking any use of the many nooks and crannies present in IC.

I don't consider myself top tier either, plenty of people hand me my arse 😂

It takes a long time to get good at PvP the skill gap is huge. This always is quite shocking to those unaccustomed to PvP. If you want a PvP game you can jump straight into generally most mmo's are off the table. I found ESO much harder to get the hang of than any of the other mmo's I have played.

coletas · September 2020

Major_Lag wrote: »

coletas wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

Eliran wrote: »

I honestly gave up the moment I saw an entire army of 10+ people trying to take down 1 guy but cant because he is immortal, killing them 1 by 1.

I am sorry if I hurt anyone feelings, but that is 100% not skill but abuse of broken mechanics

That's ZoS even remotely allow this broken stuff to happen, already prove how neglected the PVP scene is, I've never had such a bad PVP experience in my life and I've played hundreds of PVP games in my gaming life.

This is simply a whole new level of imbalance, its exactly the same as playing Diablo 3 and going from zero to hero the moment you finish your set items, there its PVE, here its PVP.

Amen! well said.
you are correct, and it has been this way since beta. i pray one day it is fixed and changed, we see adjustments and it is slowly evolving, and changes made, but the fact remains just as you have said.

fixed? to what? i think this sort of people (no ofense) would be crying even in PvP models like Sea of Thieves (everyone exactly the same build, same damage and same everything except aspect).

Amen to that.

In the past, I did play some multiplayer games of this kind - in many of the maps, there were random item spawns and you could use whatever you picked up.
But there were also duelling/"arena" maps, where everyone was made to use the exact same loadout.

Guess what... even when everyone was restricted to only use the same builds as their opponents, there were still players who were better than others - some of them significantly so. Can't nerf player skill, after all.

lol, ok, you dont want balance... you want other game lol

Gilvoth · September 2020

coletas wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

coletas wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

Eliran wrote: »

I honestly gave up the moment I saw an entire army of 10+ people trying to take down 1 guy but cant because he is immortal, killing them 1 by 1.

I am sorry if I hurt anyone feelings, but that is 100% not skill but abuse of broken mechanics

That's ZoS even remotely allow this broken stuff to happen, already prove how neglected the PVP scene is, I've never had such a bad PVP experience in my life and I've played hundreds of PVP games in my gaming life.

This is simply a whole new level of imbalance, its exactly the same as playing Diablo 3 and going from zero to hero the moment you finish your set items, there its PVE, here its PVP.

Amen! well said.
you are correct, and it has been this way since beta. i pray one day it is fixed and changed, we see adjustments and it is slowly evolving, and changes made, but the fact remains just as you have said.

fixed? to what? i think this sort of people (no ofense) would be crying even in PvP models like Sea of Thieves (everyone exactly the same build, same damage and same everything except aspect).

you prefer your weapon does 2000 damage while mine does 20 damage?
and that your armor defends 5000 in defenses while mine only protects against 200 damage?

??? what prevent you to have 2000 or 5000 like me???

i agree with and support the thread and the thread topic. the writer is correct i also believe that eso is out of balance in pvp in many many ways that is all of which based on being a "Glitch dependent pvp system"
i understand i will be railed against for that belief and support.
the balance and glitches in eso pvp needs to be reworked.
that's my stance.

stybbe17b16_ESO · September 2020

Gilvoth wrote: »

coletas wrote: »

i agree with and support the thread and the thread topic. the writer is correct i also believe that eso is out of balance in pvp in many many ways that is all of which based on being a "Glitch dependent pvp system"
i understand i will be railed against for that belief and support.
the balance and glitches in eso pvp needs to be reworked.
that's my stance.

Gilvoth wrote: »

coletas wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

coletas wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

Eliran wrote: »

I honestly gave up the moment I saw an entire army of 10+ people trying to take down 1 guy but cant because he is immortal, killing them 1 by 1.

I am sorry if I hurt anyone feelings, but that is 100% not skill but abuse of broken mechanics

That's ZoS even remotely allow this broken stuff to happen, already prove how neglected the PVP scene is, I've never had such a bad PVP experience in my life and I've played hundreds of PVP games in my gaming life.

This is simply a whole new level of imbalance, its exactly the same as playing Diablo 3 and going from zero to hero the moment you finish your set items, there its PVE, here its PVP.

Amen! well said.
you are correct, and it has been this way since beta. i pray one day it is fixed and changed, we see adjustments and it is slowly evolving, and changes made, but the fact remains just as you have said.

fixed? to what? i think this sort of people (no ofense) would be crying even in PvP models like Sea of Thieves (everyone exactly the same build, same damage and same everything except aspect).

you prefer your weapon does 2000 damage while mine does 20 damage?
and that your armor defends 5000 in defenses while mine only protects against 200 damage?

??? what prevent you to have 2000 or 5000 like me???

i agree with and support the thread and the thread topic. the writer is correct i also believe that eso is out of balance in pvp in many many ways that is all of which based on being a "Glitch dependent pvp system"
i understand i will be railed against for that belief and support.
the balance and glitches in eso pvp needs to be reworked.
that's my stance.

Such a glitch that players have 5000 weapon damage and you have 20. The game truly need a rework.

Sleep724 · September 2020

AMeanOne wrote: »

This is truly a l2p moment. If ten people are throwing out weak attacks and giving out cc immunity, just not coordinating, then the 1 person has an easy time picking the group apart.

This so much. One of the biggest imbalances in this game is skill. And no matter how hard Zos tries, there’s no way to balance around that.

dsalter · September 2020

stybbe17b16_ESO wrote: »

Such a glitch that players have 5000 weapon damage and you have 20. The game truly need a rework.

the point they are trying to make is that you cant both be a super tanky immovable object AND be able to take on individuals while being an unstoppable force, the DPS, healer, Tank dynamic exists for a reason and playing with this ruleset in mind creates more skill than the cheese fest the current game is.

Major_Lag · September 2020

coletas wrote: »

Major_Lag wrote: »

coletas wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

Eliran wrote: »

I honestly gave up the moment I saw an entire army of 10+ people trying to take down 1 guy but cant because he is immortal, killing them 1 by 1.

I am sorry if I hurt anyone feelings, but that is 100% not skill but abuse of broken mechanics

That's ZoS even remotely allow this broken stuff to happen, already prove how neglected the PVP scene is, I've never had such a bad PVP experience in my life and I've played hundreds of PVP games in my gaming life.

This is simply a whole new level of imbalance, its exactly the same as playing Diablo 3 and going from zero to hero the moment you finish your set items, there its PVE, here its PVP.

Amen! well said.
you are correct, and it has been this way since beta. i pray one day it is fixed and changed, we see adjustments and it is slowly evolving, and changes made, but the fact remains just as you have said.

fixed? to what? i think this sort of people (no ofense) would be crying even in PvP models like Sea of Thieves (everyone exactly the same build, same damage and same everything except aspect).

Amen to that.

In the past, I did play some multiplayer games of this kind - in many of the maps, there were random item spawns and you could use whatever you picked up.
But there were also duelling/"arena" maps, where everyone was made to use the exact same loadout.

Guess what... even when everyone was restricted to only use the same builds as their opponents, there were still players who were better than others - some of them significantly so. Can't nerf player skill, after all.

lol, ok, you dont want balance... you want other game lol

That is completely beside the point.

It's not about the other games, in fact the very game I have mentioned above has already "died" of "old age" many years ago.

The point is, even if the game developers do everything possible to create a completely level playing field - as was the case in the example I cited - there is still nothing preventing the more skilled players from being better at the game than others.

This should come as absolutely no surprise to anyone, and in fact the concept of a "game of skill" far predates the Industrial Revolution (let alone the introduction of computers!) - for example the game of chess, where both players start with the exact same board layout.

FrankonPC · September 2020

Eliran wrote: »

I honestly gave up the moment I saw an entire army of 10+ people trying to take down 1 guy but cant because he is immortal, killing them 1 by 1.

I am sorry if I hurt anyone feelings, but that is 100% not skill but abuse of broken mechanics

That's ZoS even remotely allow this broken stuff to happen, already prove how neglected the PVP scene is, I've never had such a bad PVP experience in my life and I've played hundreds of PVP games in my gaming life.

This is simply a whole new level of imbalance, its exactly the same as playing Diablo 3 and going from zero to hero the moment you finish your set items, there its PVE, here its PVP.

A few things:

There are some really, really bad players in this game that don't understand build construction or burst combinations. They then stack that poor damage with a misunderstanding of how to apply their poor damage. You stack all of that against someone that knows what they're doing and you can see the disparity pretty quickly.

You're being very very generic with the "abuse of broken mechanics " statement. What class were they, what mechanics were they abusing? Often times players will claim cheat instead of realize that they're the reason they're getting x'd.

There's literally no build I'm currently running where I could abuse enough mechanics to kill two players of my skill level in a 1 v 2 situation.

Are there some overpowered things? Of course, some stuff is always stronger than others...but when you get those severely outnumbered fights it's typically because of a large difference in skill level and build strength, not broken mechanics.

FlopsyPrince · September 2020

TequilaFire wrote: »

Knowledge and having the skill to use it is so OP.

Only if that was true. Though knowing the exact setup to do what the OP says (I have seen it as well) does require knowledge and pressing the buttons correctly.

It also shows why it is horrible for most players because even a massive outnumbering is worthless. It may be fun for the one who survives the group, but it just means they can basically quickly kill anyone in the game except perhaps for the few other players who have the same setup.

Fun for most of us goes out the window when we know we can be whacked so easily. Thus fewer people engage in PvP making it less fun for those who do PvP since the population plummets.

No easy solution though, since those who focus on PvP usually like overwhelming most opponents, not thinking that those who always get overwhelmed are less likely to show PvP.

FlopsyPrince · September 2020

Major_Lag wrote: »

This should come as absolutely no surprise to anyone, and in fact the concept of a "game of skill" far predates the Industrial Revolution (let alone the introduction of computers!) - for example the game of chess, where both players start with the exact same board layout.

That is quite true. Few people will play even a pickup game with someone really strong in chess, let alone a grandmaster. MMOs rely on people jumping in, even where they are less skilled. That is why nerfing to make PvP better is not going to help PvP at all.