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Is it legit to queue in the LFG as another role?

AzucarSalado
AzucarSalado
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Hello,

I have seen a few of DD queuing as tank a lot of DD as Healer (yesterday, in the 3 pledges I did) .

I think this is not game intended, it breaks the game and goes against other fellow DD that have to wait 20 minutes before entering a pledge . Does ESO care about it? Is it reportable?

Of course; if you want do do solo runs, 3dd or whatever you like, you are totally free to do it but, IMHO, do not use the LFG.

Any thoughts?

Cheers.-
Edited by AzucarSalado on August 14, 2020 9:53PM
  • r3turn2s3nd3r
    r3turn2s3nd3r
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    Just search 'fake tank' or 'fake healer'. You will find many, many thoughts on the subject.

  • Elsonso
    Elsonso
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    I doubt ZOS cares. Reporting probably won't have any effect. People doing it are considered scum of the earth by other players.

    XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
    PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
    Total in-game hours: 11321
    X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus
  • AcadianPaladin
    AcadianPaladin
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    Lying to your fellow players to jump the queue is wrong. No amount of mental gymnastic rationalizing changes that.
    PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo
  • idk
    idk
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    It is well known and my guess is Zos does care but there is really little they can effectively do about it. A couple of years ago Zos about all they could do, but it was not a bright move. They forced us to select a single role to queue for which means those of us that can run more than one role on characters cannot do so anymore. That less than brilliant move actually hurts the GF.

    Players can do one of two things.
    • They can form their own group and likely have a better run than most GF groups, to begin with.
    • They can also start vote kicking fake tanks and healers. Not even trying to vote kick them is literally choosing to say it is ok.

  • idk
    idk
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    Elsonso wrote: »
    People doing it are considered scum of the earth by other players.

    I would suggest if this were true on even a semi-broad scale then we would no longer have fake tanks and healers because players would be vote kicking them from the group most of the time.
  • Everest_Lionheart
    Everest_Lionheart
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    Sometimes it’s sucks to sit in that’s queue as a DD for 20 minutes but for the good of everyone people really need to queue for their own roles. Especially if it’s a DLC or any vet dungeon. Some premade groups of 1 tank and 3 DD’s can pull some of that stuff off but for PUG you never know what you are going to get.

    Increase all our chances on clearing the dungeon efficiently and queue for the correct role.
  • Elsonso
    Elsonso
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    idk wrote: »
    Elsonso wrote: »
    People doing it are considered scum of the earth by other players.

    I would suggest if this were true on even a semi-broad scale then we would no longer have fake tanks and healers because players would be vote kicking them from the group most of the time.

    I dunno. Maybe. If you read the forums, "fake tanks" and people who have combat pets out in town rank pretty low on the social scale. There might be some cheaters in PVP that rank higher. If you read the forums. :neutral:
    XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
    PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
    Total in-game hours: 11321
    X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus
  • redspecter23
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    It's legit in that you are able to do it. I doubt it's reportable, but there are 3 other people there that may not like a "fake" role and they do have the power to boot you if they choose to.

    Basically, you can do what you want, but be willing to accept consequences for any actions you do.
  • Fur_like_snow
    Fur_like_snow
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    Would you rather wait 40 minutes instead of 20 for a single pledge? Whatever keeps the queues popping or else players just get bored and play something else.
    Edited by Fur_like_snow on August 14, 2020 10:52PM
  • Dovakhan
    Dovakhan
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    Would you rather wait 40 minutes instead of 20 for a single pledge? Whatever keeps the queues popping or else players just get bored and play something else.

    Of course, it's sooo much better to have 13k HP tanks, or healers who don't heal at all and screw up the rest of your group just because you don't want to wait, right?

    Answering the OP: no, it isn't. If you wanna do a fast RND, then make a decent healer or tank. Heck, my crafter is a makeshift healer with just Restoration staff skills and Energy Orb, and it's already more than enough for Normal and non-DLC Vet.

    And maybe with more tanks-healers and less hackandslash dudes, queues would go faster indeed. After all, it's precisely DD's the ones who should have no problem queuing to begin with, as you require 2 of them per group, as opposed to 1 tank/healer.
    Edited by Dovakhan on August 14, 2020 11:09PM
  • anitajoneb17_ESO
    anitajoneb17_ESO
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    Hello,

    I have seen a few of DD queuing as tank a lot of DD as Healer (yesterday, in the 3 pledges I did) .

    I think this is not game intended, it breaks the game and goes against other fellow DD that have to wait 20 minutes before entering a pledge . Does ESO care about it? Is it reportable?

    Of course; if you want do do solo runs, 3dd or whatever you like, you are totally free to do it but, IMHO, do not use the LFG.

    Any thoughts?

    Cheers.-

    Veteran or normal ?
    I like normal runs to be quick and for most normal dungeons, 3DD+1healer OR 3DD+1 tank, or even 4DD are a more efficient combination than the holy trinity. Therefore I don't mind people queuing in the "wrong" role - provided they know how to deal with a run without tank/healer.

    If you want to be sure that your group is the way you want it to be - make your own with your guilds or in zone. If you use the grouping tool (aka LFG), be ready for anything and adapt. If you have expectations, do not PUG.

  • Dovakhan
    Dovakhan
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    The only times where 3-4 DDS has worked for me have been with clan members.

    It almost NEVER works with PUGS. Mark my words.
    Edited by Dovakhan on August 14, 2020 11:13PM
  • volkeswagon
    volkeswagon
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    Isn't there a way if the game automatically giving you a role based on your stats such as health, resistance, etc
  • Mindcr0w
    Mindcr0w
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    I will fully admit that I sometimes queue against role to knock the pledge out of the way quickly.

    Buuuuuuut I only do this in content that I know I can effectively solo, so the run will be extremely smooth and quick for whoever gets grouped with me. In these cases I am effectively taking on all group roles and everyone else gets a free ride.

    Queuing against role when you aren't overpowered for the content in question is another story altogether. A 200 cp dd that queued as tank isn't going to be able to drag the rest of the group through vet dlc dungeons and thus screws the group and themselves.
    Edited by Mindcr0w on August 14, 2020 11:37PM
  • Fur_like_snow
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    Dovakhan wrote: »
    Would you rather wait 40 minutes instead of 20 for a single pledge? Whatever keeps the queues popping or else players just get bored and play something else.

    Of course, it's sooo much better to have 13k HP tanks, or healers who don't heal at all and screw up the rest of your group just because you don't want to wait, right?.

    Right. If you have a problem with that form your own group. Pugging will always be a hit or miss venture. 13k HP isn’t gonna work for any role regardless of intention. I’d rather have a faster queue that goes belly up(because it’s pretty obvious how a group will go from the first couple trash packs) than sit in a DD queue for double the wait time and still end up with the 13k do nothing RP hero. I have the gear, knowledge and CP to carry a bad group can you?
    Edited by Fur_like_snow on August 14, 2020 11:47PM
  • Tsar_Gekkou
    Tsar_Gekkou
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    Sometimes it’s sucks to sit in that’s queue as a DD for 20 minutes but for the good of everyone people really need to queue for their own roles. Especially if it’s a DLC or any vet dungeon. Some premade groups of 1 tank and 3 DD’s can pull some of that stuff off but for PUG you never know what you are going to get.

    Increase all our chances on clearing the dungeon efficiently and queue for the correct role.

    20 minutes is probably the case if you're just doing a random dungeon. trying to get into a normal dlc dungeon could take hours, if the queue pops at all. I was trying to farm Cradle of Shadows and couldn't get a queue to pop at all as a dps, but when I queued on my healer, I got in a lot quicker but the dps was horrible, even by normal dungeon standards. Instead of spending an hour in a normal dungeon with snipe spammers, I queued as a tank with inner fire on my petsorc and just taunted everything and melted them down. That way the group had actual damage, and didn't have to potentially deal with a tank running everything around the room which makes it take longer to kill stuff.
    Xbox NA healer main
    vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL HM | vHoF HM | vAS+2 | vCR+3 | vBRP | vSS HM | vKA HM | vRG HM |
    Flawless Conqueror | Spirit Slayer | Dro-mA'thra Destroyer | Tick-Tock-Tormentor | Immortal Redeemer | Gryphon Heart | Godslayer | Dawnbringer | Planesbreaker |
  • Dovakhan
    Dovakhan
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    Dovakhan wrote: »
    Would you rather wait 40 minutes instead of 20 for a single pledge? Whatever keeps the queues popping or else players just get bored and play something else.

    Of course, it's sooo much better to have 13k HP tanks, or healers who don't heal at all and screw up the rest of your group just because you don't want to wait, right?.

    Right. If you have a problem with that form your own group. Pugging will always be a hit or miss venture. 13k HP isn’t gonna work for any role regardless of intention. I’d rather have a faster queue that goes belly up(because it’s pretty obvious how a group will go from the first couple trash packs) than sit in a DD queue for double the wait time and still end up with the 13k do nothing RP hero. I have the gear, knowledge and CP to carry a bad group can you?

    It's because people with that very attitude that PUGGING has such a bad fame to begin with. And it's because of that very attitude that you get coupled with "do nothing RP heroes". Haven't you realized that?

    And if you "have the knowledge", then good for you. Can you say the same about every other fake tank/healer around? Are you gonna apologize for them for every fake tank that leaves mid-match cos the rest of the team can't carry him as he expected? Are you gonna heal all the ones that a fake healer doesn't heal, even between battles cos "OMG I CAN DO 70K DAMAGE OLOLO", and in the meantime the true DD's of his team are in the ground?

    If not, then don't speak for every faker out there. And if you don't understand that dungeons are group efforts (like it or not), then stick to solo questing.
    Edited by Dovakhan on August 15, 2020 12:01AM
  • Everest_Lionheart
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    Sometimes it’s sucks to sit in that’s queue as a DD for 20 minutes but for the good of everyone people really need to queue for their own roles. Especially if it’s a DLC or any vet dungeon. Some premade groups of 1 tank and 3 DD’s can pull some of that stuff off but for PUG you never know what you are going to get.

    Increase all our chances on clearing the dungeon efficiently and queue for the correct role.

    20 minutes is probably the case if you're just doing a random dungeon. trying to get into a normal dlc dungeon could take hours, if the queue pops at all. I was trying to farm Cradle of Shadows and couldn't get a queue to pop at all as a dps, but when I queued on my healer, I got in a lot quicker but the dps was horrible, even by normal dungeon standards. Instead of spending an hour in a normal dungeon with snipe spammers, I queued as a tank with inner fire on my petsorc and just taunted everything and melted them down. That way the group had actual damage, and didn't have to potentially deal with a tank running everything around the room which makes it take longer to kill stuff.

    I usually get my random normal queues pretty fast. It’s the vet queues that take a little longer but groups generally seem to be more reliable and often it’s 2 or 3 guys looking to fill their groups. I’ve had some crazy good luck with all of them lately even if I have had to wait a little longer.
  • Fur_like_snow
    Fur_like_snow
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    Ever group I’ve carried has been grateful for my assistance. Adding more restrictions because bad players exists only serves to increase wait time. Are you willing to double or triple your wait time for more “honest” roles? I certainly wouldn’t. And Z understands that point they don’t want wait time to increase so they won’t add more restrictions. If worst comes to worst I complete the dungeon with or without the RP heroes. I speak for any player with half a clue who’s carried bad players thru content that they by all rights should not have completed. But sure let’s blame the community.
    Edited by Fur_like_snow on August 15, 2020 12:03AM
  • Reverb
    Reverb
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    This is entirely controllable by the community. If someone isn’t performing their role (“tank” with no taunt, “healer” will all-out dps) and it is causing the group to be less effective, initiate a vote to kick. If the vote passes, the group has spoken about what’s important and the player faking a role is inconvenienced. If it happens consistently, people will stop queuing for fake roles because their odds of getting kicked for it will be high.

    But if the vote doesn’t pass, the majority in the group don’t care. If it’s not important to people, nothing needs done about it.
    Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche
  • Dovakhan
    Dovakhan
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    Ever group I’ve carried has been grateful for my assistance. Adding more restrictions because bad players exists only serves to increase wait time. Are you willing to double or triple your wait time for more “honest” roles? I certainly wouldn’t. And Z understands that point they don’t want wait time to increase so they won’t add more restrictions. If worst comes to worst I complete the dungeon with or without the RP heroes. I speak for any player with half a clue who’s carried bad players thru content that they by all rights should not have completed. But sure let’s blame the community.

    I don't have any problem with carriers or exotic builds, as long as they can pull their weight, and/or accomplish their role somehow. Like I said, my crafter is a makeshift healer as well. Not the best healer in the world by far, but I always try my damnest to make it work.

    But fakers usually put 0 effort into it. That you allegedly are a good carrier doesn't change that.
    Edited by Dovakhan on August 15, 2020 12:07AM
  • Dusk_Coven
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    Basically you are asking "is it legit to lie and cheat"?

    People are skipping the queue, cutting ahead of people who are not cheating.
    If they don't take action, more people will cheat than not and the whole system becomes garbage.

    TERA has an interesting solution: If there is no tank/heal/dd match after too long, it asks if you want to match a team and go in without some of the roles
    Edited by Dusk_Coven on August 15, 2020 12:22AM
  • Fur_like_snow
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    You guys just love those long queue times.
    Edited by Fur_like_snow on August 15, 2020 12:23AM
  • Dovakhan
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    You guys just love those long queue times.

    No, we don't.

    We just have more social skills and consideration than those who only look for themselves. Which there's nothing wrong about doing that btw, as long as you don't affect others.
  • Sanctum74
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    Unfortunately it’s not reportable so all you can do is vote to kick the selfish players. This is why i just solo dungeons, no wait no drama.
  • kargen27
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    idk wrote: »
    Elsonso wrote: »
    People doing it are considered scum of the earth by other players.

    I would suggest if this were true on even a semi-broad scale then we would no longer have fake tanks and healers because players would be vote kicking them from the group most of the time.

    Problem being the queue time. Players are willing to tolerate a fake tank or fake healer for most normal dungeons and even some vet ones if it means not having to wait for another half hour after already being in a long queue.
    and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."
  • kargen27
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    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    Basically you are asking "is it legit to lie and cheat"?

    People are skipping the queue, cutting ahead of people who are not cheating.
    If they don't take action, more people will cheat than not and the whole system becomes garbage.

    TERA has an interesting solution: If there is no tank/heal/dd match after too long, it asks if you want to match a team and go in without some of the roles

    Long ago in a fit of optimism I suggested a couple of choices in the queue. You could queue seeking a traditional group and it would fill as the roles became available. The game would try to fill traditional queues first. So if a tank queued willing to join a nontraditional group they would be placed in the first traditional group in the queue.
    The players willing to join a non traditional group could find themselves with four DPS, two DPS and two healers or any other combination. If there are no players wanting a traditional group in the queue the game would first try to form traditional groups then create the nontraditional groups from the players remaining.
    and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."
  • ThePianist
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    Isn't there a way if the game automatically giving you a role based on your stats such as health, resistance, etc

    Try slotting aoe skills and support skills to help with the algorithms. All classes have access to Arrow barrage, Caltrops, Echoing Vigor and Purge. If you slot skills mainly for pvp and que for a dungeon, it will take a long time.

    Play prime time weekend hours and only slot pvp skills, then que for a dungeon. I guarantee you the que will be over an hour.

    I mostly play in graveyard hours but I never have problems going into dungeons.

    If you really want to go farm a set at a certain dungeon then you can physically go there and enter the dungeon by yourself. For example, Unhallowed grave is in Bangkorai. Go solo, and chances are you will run into a group that’s already there. We don’t know how many unhallowed grave “pocket dimensions” there are, maybe 10 or 20, but I don’t think the game generates an entire dungeon for a group, that’s too much server load. “Instance full”, or having 6 people in Wayrest sewers is common. It’s not a bug, not an exploit, it’s been there for a long time. Literally Reddit posts and yt videos showing it. FYI, I took a break since the dark cloak nerf, I came back and the dungeon thing is still there.
  • karekiz
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    Depends on if you can do the role correctly.

    There is a difference between a DPS side healing or taunting a boss while DPSing and some guy who just runs and leaves on the trash on the DPS.
  • redshirt_49
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    Story from today:

    Fake tank on vet Blackheart Haven, oh joy. Naturally, everyone wipes the moment I (ie the Healer) is skellified.
    Fake tanks analysis? "Bro, just cleanse the skelly effect. You're the healer."

    Dude was a Nightblade running double bows, spamming endless hail, heavy attacks and snipe. And nothing else.
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