Is it legit to queue in the LFG as another role?

Amunari

Do you know what will fix this?

Expanding the dungeon lockout for 2 hours. If players vote them out, they will never do it again. The issue is that people abuse the crap out of this.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Amunari wrote: »

Do you know what will fix this?

Expanding the dungeon lockout for 2 hours. If players vote them out, they will never do it again. The issue is that people abuse the crap out of this.

And people would never abuse their "right to kick" just to annoy another player, even a stranger, even without any further reason, just for the lulz ?

redgreensunset

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Amunari wrote: »

Do you know what will fix this?

Expanding the dungeon lockout for 2 hours. If players vote them out, they will never do it again. The issue is that people abuse the crap out of this.

And people would never abuse their "right to kick" just to annoy another player, even a stranger, even without any further reason, just for the lulz ?

Agree. This is a terrible idea, ripe for abuse. And I'm honestly not sure it'll even fix the problem, selfish people are going to be selfish no matter how many rules and barriers you set up.

gatekeeper13

No, it is not. People who use dungeon finder expect their teammates to have their real roles.

Those who want to do 3DD 1H or 3DD 1T runs, they can form their own group.

TochTom

Lately I've been doing a lot of vet pledges with randoms. The character I'm doing it on is a Magicka Sorcerer DPS, but I use the Twilight Matriarch and queue as a healer, and not once have I had a complaint about not enough healing or sustain. This has so far been a really nice experience because I'm using Combat Metrics aswell which shows you how much DPS you do, but also an estimate of how much of the Group's DPS it is (in percentages). I did Veteran City of Ash II the other day like that and on Valkyn Skoria in HM I was doing 65% of the Group's DPS while also keeping everyone alive and making sure there always was an orb (damage morph) for people to synergise with and get some resources back.

I don't see how I should be limited to only queueing as a DPS when I can clearly queue as a Healer and carry the group through content that they maybe wouldn't have cleared otherwise.

EDIT: Edited some spelling and made it read easier.

Grandchamp1989

TochTom wrote: »

Lately I've been doing a lot of vet pledges with randoms. The character I'm doing it on is a Magicka Sorcerer DPS, but I use the Twilight Matriarch and queue as a healer, and not once have I had a complaint about not enough healing or sustain. This has so far been a really nice experience because I'm using Combat Metrics aswell which shows you how much DPS you do, but also an estimate of how much of the Group's DPS it is (in percentages). I did Veteran City of Ash II the other day like that and on Valkyn Skoria in HM I was doing 65% of the Group's DPS while also keeping everyone alive and making sure there always was an orb (damage morph) for people to synergise with and get some resources back.

I don't see how I should be limited to only queueing as a DPS when I can clearly queue as a Healer and carry the group through content that they maybe wouldn't have cleared otherwise.

EDIT: Edited some spelling and made it read easier.

That's not a fake healer though. You can accomplish your task.
Other's may not with your set up, but you can.

I have never understood why "fake tanks" doesn't slot Inner rage taunt (which also does damage)
or why a "fake healer" doesn't slot just one group heal ability.

You'd actually be able to fulfill your role and doing dmg at the same time.

People don't want to comprimise and go full fake role and it's extremely selfish. People que up expecting a taunt and an AOE heal on the battlefield and it's more important than a fake role losing 1-2k dmg from having to comprimise on one single spell or one gear set........

redgreensunset

TochTom wrote: »

Lately I've been doing a lot of vet pledges with randoms. The character I'm doing it on is a Magicka Sorcerer DPS, but I use the Twilight Matriarch and queue as a healer, and not once have I had a complaint about not enough healing or sustain. This has so far been a really nice experience because I'm using Combat Metrics aswell which shows you how much DPS you do, but also an estimate of how much of the Group's DPS it is (in percentages). I did Veteran City of Ash II the other day like that and on Valkyn Skoria in HM I was doing 65% of the Group's DPS while also keeping everyone alive and making sure there always was an orb (damage morph) for people to synergise with and get some resources back.

I don't see how I should be limited to only queueing as a DPS when I can clearly queue as a Healer and carry the group through content that they maybe wouldn't have cleared otherwise.

EDIT: Edited some spelling and made it read easier.

And what will you do when you run into a group that needs a healer healer? You're willing to scr*w over that group entirely because you don't want to wait? I'm here assuming you're not slotting a resto staff or anything but the matriarch. It worked fine so far but what on the day it doesn't? What's your plan then?

Fawn4287

If you play a half dps or tank depending on the content its no problem, if you run a tank that does dps but taunts the boss its all good, likewise with healer if not more so, a build that runs a matriach, refreshing path, funnel health or some other decent heal to make some healing is fine. However if you are out trying to get a no death or hard mode on a vet dungeon, running proper roles is definitely the best option, however if you run say a tank and 3 magcro DPS all with restoring tether and one runs ele drain, you should he able to easily do nearly all 4 man content. These scrubs complaining about needing a healer for stuff like vet fungal 1 are Or COA 1 are probably the reason this post needed to be made at all.

Jayman1000

imo it depends whether they can pull their weight. If they arent the role they sign up for and this causes problems for the group, then no, I dont think that is legit. But if they can pull their own weight and is beneficial and good for the group then by all means Im all for it, because then it only means you will wait less time in the queue; yes you too will wait less in queue, not only the tank/healer, because the LFG system can then put a new group together faster.

Pauwer

In vet dungeons fake heals and tanks suck. In normal, i think if you are a mag toon and have a resto staff and some heal skills on it, it's fine. It's not fine though when i play my "unkillable" full heavy armor pvp magsorc ice tank, that a dps toon stands in front of me during boss fights and holds block. I take offence, man

Lazarus_Rising

Sarannah wrote: »

Low DPS is still DPS... they waited till a LONG queue was over to get into the dungeon. So even though they are bad at their role, they are not a fake-role. Noone would wait in the longest queue(DPS) when they are actually a tank or healer hehe

If you do less DPS than a geared tank or healer you are no DPS and deserved to get kicked too because you cause unnecessary pressure on tank and healer. They need to come up for the low damage and have more trouble. I stopped tanking because DPS were so low every second dungeon that my patience was so much put on test so i just switched for DPS.

If you dont do enough DPS and therefore making it a hard time for healer and tank you should stay away from dungeons and learn the mechanics first. Low DPS is equally rude then to queue fake roles imo.

Juhasow

Sarannah wrote: »

Low DPS is still DPS... they waited till a LONG queue was over to get into the dungeon. So even though they are bad at their role, they are not a fake-role. Noone would wait in the longest queue(DPS) when they are actually a tank or healer hehe

So if low DPS is still a DPS then You would be fine with tanks quening as fake DDs ?

MJallday

Let’s be clear, you can queue as whatever role you want. There’s no “law”

However if you queue as a tank , expect to act as a tank, same as if you queue as a healer - expect to heal - and expect to be called out by your group if it all goes wrong and you are not “acting” as that role

With normal dungeons in this game
you can get away with it (running 4 dds)

Vet dungeons less so (1 tank 3dds is usually fine)

Vet dlc dungeons - I would Say not (If you’ve got a good group 1 tank 3 dds with self heals is doable)

Tanks are more important than healers in this game thanks to ZOS and one bang mechs

Xologamer

AzucarSalado wrote: »

Hello,

I have seen a few of DD queuing as tank a lot of DD as Healer (yesterday, in the 3 pledges I did) .

I think this is not game intended, it breaks the game and goes against other fellow DD that have to wait 20 minutes before entering a pledge . Does ESO care about it? Is it reportable?

Of course; if you want do do solo runs, 3dd or whatever you like, you are totally free to do it but, IMHO, do not use the LFG.

Any thoughts?

Cheers.-

in my opinion yes but only if u know that u would be able to solo the dungon (and just queue for more loot)
if u wouldnt u shouldnt fake tank/heal than u would just kill the group and everyone would waste time

svendf

Fawn4287 wrote: »

If you play a half dps or tank depending on the content its no problem, if you run a tank that does dps but taunts the boss its all good, likewise with healer if not more so, a build that runs a matriach, refreshing path, funnel health or some other decent heal to make some healing is fine. However if you are out trying to get a no death or hard mode on a vet dungeon, running proper roles is definitely the best option, however if you run say a tank and 3 magcro DPS all with restoring tether and one runs ele drain, you should he able to easily do nearly all 4 man content. These scrubs complaining about needing a healer for stuff like vet fungal 1 are Or COA 1 are probably the reason this post needed to be made at all.

Do you know what people are running when you team up via gf ? Because I don´t.

I see your post more like what can be done in a pree made group

svendf

Pauwer wrote: »

In vet dungeons fake heals and tanks suck. In normal, i think if you are a mag toon and have a resto staff and some heal skills on it, it's fine. It's not fine though when i play my "unkillable" full heavy armor pvp magsorc ice tank, that a dps toon stands in front of me during boss fights and holds block. I take offence, man

These fake roles starts in normal dungeon´s and spread out from there to vet dungeon´s. So! It´s there it hav to be solved on player level.

It doesn´t help people pop up on forum and claim we don´t need this or these roles in some content

Elsonso

Amunari wrote: »

Do you know what will fix this?

Expanding the dungeon lockout for 2 hours. If players vote them out, they will never do it again. The issue is that people abuse the crap out of this.

Actually, the answer lies more along the lines of "be patient and use the cards you are dealt".

Yes, it would be nice if the Tank was a tank, the Healer was a healer, and the Damage did damage. None of that is guaranteed. We are talking about a PUG here. A least common denominator group. Outside of the dungeon level criteria, there really cannot be any expectation of proficiency. The group is made up if whatever players are just standing around waiting for a dungeon. You might get an expert player, or someone who leveled up on a dolmen circuit while watching Netflix.

So, I say the answer is to stick with it. If it becomes apparent that the PUG that has assembled is not able to complete the content, then deal with it. Ways to deal with it include adapting to the situation (roles, skills, etc), educating people on mechanics so that the content is easier, and (as a last resort) people leaving the group so that other cards can be dealt.

TochTom

redgreensunset wrote: »

TochTom wrote: »

Lately I've been doing a lot of vet pledges with randoms. The character I'm doing it on is a Magicka Sorcerer DPS, but I use the Twilight Matriarch and queue as a healer, and not once have I had a complaint about not enough healing or sustain. This has so far been a really nice experience because I'm using Combat Metrics aswell which shows you how much DPS you do, but also an estimate of how much of the Group's DPS it is (in percentages). I did Veteran City of Ash II the other day like that and on Valkyn Skoria in HM I was doing 65% of the Group's DPS while also keeping everyone alive and making sure there always was an orb (damage morph) for people to synergise with and get some resources back.

I don't see how I should be limited to only queueing as a DPS when I can clearly queue as a Healer and carry the group through content that they maybe wouldn't have cleared otherwise.

EDIT: Edited some spelling and made it read easier.

And what will you do when you run into a group that needs a healer healer? You're willing to scr*w over that group entirely because you don't want to wait? I'm here assuming you're not slotting a resto staff or anything but the matriarch. It worked fine so far but what on the day it doesn't? What's your plan then?

In that case I still have a back-up healer gear set in my bank because I have the Restoration Staff completely leveled out for PvP, so if *** hits the fan I can apologize for slacking and trying to make the dungeon go faster and swap to a setup with more group healing.

Edelner

On normal dungeon queue as a tank being dd is ok until you can "tank" trash and bosses and you and your team can easy kill them.On vet dungeon is one of the most bad and anoying behaviour.A tank is necessary for vet dungeon.You can play 1 tank 3 dd without a healer but tank is must have.Fake taking is one of the biggest ESO problem and imo it is caused by too free choice of creating character.You shoulde use specific sets and skills to game recognize you as a damage dealer, tank or healer but now you can wear every sets and every skill, every race and you can queue as a any role and that's the problem.

svendf

Waiting in q as a dd was just too much for me. So I made three healers and a tank. I understand and accept, that not everone wanna run a healer or tank - that´s ok fine with me np. But please don´t take my spot in a dungeon if you are a dd.

Sarannah

Juhasow wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Low DPS is still DPS... they waited till a LONG queue was over to get into the dungeon. So even though they are bad at their role, they are not a fake-role. Noone would wait in the longest queue(DPS) when they are actually a tank or healer hehe

So if low DPS is still a DPS then You would be fine with tanks quening as fake DDs ?

No, because that would be a fake role. If you know you are a tank and queue as DPS you are a fake role. Same as the other way around. But if you do not know what you are doing and queue as DPS while wearing mostly tank gear/spec, but have the intention to DPS, you are not a fake role. Just terrible at the role you should be hehe.

But realistically, this does not happen since tanks won't queue as DPS.

Jayman1000

svendf wrote: »

Waiting in q as a dd was just too much for me. So I made three healers and a tank. I understand and accept, that not everone wanna run a healer or tank - that´s ok fine with me np. But please don´t take my spot in a dungeon if you are a dd.

Since you are queuing as healer or tank you will have no problem getting a group almost immediately. You'd have no wait time, hence you wouldn't experience anyone taking your spot, because you'll get right in.

ssewallb14_ESO

If someone fake tanks a base game dungeon and they're somewhat good I honestly don't care. You can kick them if you want a real one.

zaria

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

TochTom wrote: »

Lately I've been doing a lot of vet pledges with randoms. The character I'm doing it on is a Magicka Sorcerer DPS, but I use the Twilight Matriarch and queue as a healer, and not once have I had a complaint about not enough healing or sustain. This has so far been a really nice experience because I'm using Combat Metrics aswell which shows you how much DPS you do, but also an estimate of how much of the Group's DPS it is (in percentages). I did Veteran City of Ash II the other day like that and on Valkyn Skoria in HM I was doing 65% of the Group's DPS while also keeping everyone alive and making sure there always was an orb (damage morph) for people to synergise with and get some resources back.

I don't see how I should be limited to only queueing as a DPS when I can clearly queue as a Healer and carry the group through content that they maybe wouldn't have cleared otherwise.

EDIT: Edited some spelling and made it read easier.

That's not a fake healer though. You can accomplish your task.
Other's may not with your set up, but you can.

I have never understood why "fake tanks" doesn't slot Inner rage taunt (which also does damage)
or why a "fake healer" doesn't slot just one group heal ability.

You'd actually be able to fulfill your role and doing dmg at the same time.

People don't want to comprimise and go full fake role and it's extremely selfish. People que up expecting a taunt and an AOE heal on the battlefield and it's more important than a fake role losing 1-2k dmg from having to comprimise on one single spell or one gear set........

This, as said any magic build with an resto staff is an healer in a dungeons.
As op says some classes don't need the reso staff but its nice to have.
Now you might get problem if you have to keep an glass cannon fake tank alive in an hard dungeon but that is the tank fault not the healer as you assumed the tank to be sturdy.
You obviously work well in an low dps group with an good tank.
Now for any PvP stamina players needing to run dungeons, make an tank. You might want to farm ebon for the LOL. If you are an nice tank members will throw it at you
Don't change cp or skills but you want to set up the gear right.

Lazarus_Rising

Juhasow wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Low DPS is still DPS... they waited till a LONG queue was over to get into the dungeon. So even though they are bad at their role, they are not a fake-role. Noone would wait in the longest queue(DPS) when they are actually a tank or healer hehe

So if low DPS is still a DPS then You would fine with tanks quening as fake DDs ?

yeah exactly DPS can freely do have *** builds and low dps but they consider themself dps so they are free of punishment
I mean im a DPS myself but how can you think like that but refuse to up your DPS? I think this is one of the causes there are so much fake roles because tanks especially cant be bothered anymore.

Sarannah wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Low DPS is still DPS... they waited till a LONG queue was over to get into the dungeon. So even though they are bad at their role, they are not a fake-role. Noone would wait in the longest queue(DPS) when they are actually a tank or healer hehe

So if low DPS is still a DPS then You would be fine with tanks quening as fake DDs ?

No, because that would be a fake role. If you know you are a tank and queue as DPS you are a fake role. Same as the other way around. But if you do not know what you are doing and queue as DPS while wearing mostly tank gear/spec, but have the intention to DPS, you are not a fake role. Just terrible at the role you should be hehe.

But realistically, this does not happen since tanks won't queue as DPS.

Then you need to apply the same treatment do the dd playing as tank. It is a tank which is terrible at his role.

AzucarSalado

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

AzucarSalado wrote: »

Hello,

I have seen a few of DD queuing as tank a lot of DD as Healer (yesterday, in the 3 pledges I did) .

I think this is not game intended, it breaks the game and goes against other fellow DD that have to wait 20 minutes before entering a pledge . Does ESO care about it? Is it reportable?

Of course; if you want do do solo runs, 3dd or whatever you like, you are totally free to do it but, IMHO, do not use the LFG.

Any thoughts?

Cheers.-

Veteran or normal ?
I like normal runs to be quick and for most normal dungeons, 3DD+1healer OR 3DD+1 tank, or even 4DD are a more efficient combination than the holy trinity. Therefore I don't mind people queuing in the "wrong" role - provided they know how to deal with a run without tank/healer.

If you want to be sure that your group is the way you want it to be - make your own with your guilds or in zone. If you use the grouping tool (aka LFG), be ready for anything and adapt. If you have expectations, do not PUG.

I disagree with you. It is in the LFG (pug) where you must select a role and where you should not lie because you are affecting others. If I want an speed run, an all dd, a 1 tank+3dd or whatever; I do a premade.

By the way, for me it is not difference veteran or normal. I am not talking about what is more time efficient. I am talking about if it is exploiting a game mechanic for self benefit.

AzucarSalado

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Basically you are asking "is it legit to lie and cheat"?

I returned to the game 2 months ago and I am surprised how common it is. That's why I am asking. Maybe it has ESO/ZOS beneplacit.

AzucarSalado

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Sometimes it’s sucks to sit in that’s queue as a DD for 20 minutes but for the good of everyone people really need to queue for their own roles. Especially if it’s a DLC or any vet dungeon. Some premade groups of 1 tank and 3 DD’s can pull some of that stuff off but for PUG you never know what you are going to get.

Increase all our chances on clearing the dungeon efficiently and queue for the correct role.

20 minutes is probably the case if you're just doing a random dungeon. trying to get into a normal dlc dungeon could take hours, if the queue pops at all. I was trying to farm Cradle of Shadows and couldn't get a queue to pop at all as a dps, but when I queued on my healer, I got in a lot quicker but the dps was horrible, even by normal dungeon standards. Instead of spending an hour in a normal dungeon with snipe spammers, I queued as a tank with inner fire on my petsorc and just taunted everything and melted them down. That way the group had actual damage, and didn't have to potentially deal with a tank running everything around the room which makes it take longer to kill stuff.

As I see it, if you have a taunt and can block, you are a tank. Nothing wrong with not being a super-tank/ super dd/ super healer, being newbie or still learning. Maybe, your healer disagrees with me if you caused him a bigger stress than usual.

The other day happened some thing funny. We made a normal dlc dungeon with 2 tank. I was just thinking that there were a newbie DD because the pulls and bosses were taking ages to kill. After we failed the dps check on the last boss, I asked one of the DD and It turned out that he was a newbie tank that did not had other gear (only heavy) or dps skills (only 1h and shield). I was tanking with a toon that I had recently leveled up and I did no have either a DD build. I wore one set of my stam DD that I had in the bank and, in the end, we did it.

AzucarSalado

LashanW wrote: »

OP what do you mean "legit"? Afaik, there are no hard rules against queuing with a fake role. So it's not really a bannable offence to my knowledge. It's just a moral issue of potentially ruining the experience and time of 3 other people.

Me personally, I don't mind fake tanks as long as they run a taunt skill and use it on bosses and not die. For DDs that fake tank but don't have a shred of decency to slot a taunt and that causes inexperienced new players to die (because boss is charging them and they panic), I usually talk with the group and initiate a vote kick.

You answered my question, then it is only moral.

Concerning how this affects others, problem is that the fake tanks I found do not taunt and the fake healers they have not slotted a single heal. I made 80% healing as a tank.

newtinmpls

To answer OP's actual question, no, it's not legit, okay or ethical to sign up as something you are not.

That being said:
1-if you have 30k health, and a taunt and a pull, that's enough to tank for most base non-vet dungeons
2-If you have a heal over time AND an AoE heal and a good enough sense of how things are going to know when and how to use them, that's enough for a healer for most base non-vet dungeons. Later, or as soon as you can, I'd advocate some kind of resources, shards for Templars, Orbs for anyone else, the resto staff lifesteal as soon as you can use it.

Now comes the part that is more difficult.
If you are doing most of your damage with light attacks, or a bow, you likely aren't a legit DPS.
If you only have AoE damage, or you only have single target damage, then you likely aren't a legit DPS.