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Bots - Are they really after boss loot? Or something else?
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Almay✭Why not just spawn the boss in different places throughout the dungeon...? I don't know why they think it needs to be at the end like its glued to the floor1 -
crush83✭✭✭✭I love people who think that bots are simply macro scripts running on the Zenimax client. So naive.0
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Sezmu✭✭They could also make all the loot and XP be based on the achievement you get for killing the boss the first time. Further kills should garner little, to no, reward. It is not like other games where they are running a dungeon to get to the boss each time and earn a reward. They just stand there in big groups and wait for it to spawn. They are not earning a reward. With all those people hitting it, the boss is no challenge, at all. Certainly not something worth rewarding. Removing the reward for that would solve the problem.
The XP part is already this way, first kill is tons of XP (Quest level) and later kills are similar to regular mobs in dungeon.
Tassilo - VR2 - Sorc
Garibald - 16 - Templar0 -
zinoviy22b14_ESO✭✭✭Why not just spawn the boss in different places throughout the dungeon...? I don't know why they think it needs to be at the end like its glued to the floor
Then they'll path. My first MMO was FFXI and the ran NMMs had several spawn points. I remember bots just run laps on times waiting while the more advance ones did the teleport PoS hack.
Then one day trying to farm my monk fist weapons with a few friends, a GM came and whispered us individually with questions that a bot couldn't respond to.. "Hi I'm GM blahblah don't be alarmed. You want to see something cool?"
he teleported all the hacking bots.. and there were more then we expected around 10, only one visible to us. Then whisked them away to the jail FFXI had for cheaters and harassers.
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It's sad that these types of things exist. People ruin a game for personal gain. All we can do is report them and hope the ESO team is dedicated to stopping the cheating. I'm sure they ban the characters from future use and the IP address.
I think they should be able to sue these people for selling something that doesn't belong to them. No matter how an item is obtained on here it never truly belongs to the player. Everything always belongs to the ESO team. These accounts are linked to a card for payment.... Only allow cards linked to bank accounts to play. Then hold that person responsible for any violations like exploiting the game for personal gain.
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Aci✭✭✭zinoviy22b14_ESO wrote: »Why not just spawn the boss in different places throughout the dungeon...? I don't know why they think it needs to be at the end like its glued to the floor
Then they'll path. My first MMO was FFXI and the ran NMMs had several spawn points. I remember bots just run laps on times waiting while the more advance ones did the teleport PoS hack.
Then one day trying to farm my monk fist weapons with a few friends, a GM came and whispered us individually with questions that a bot couldn't respond to.. "Hi I'm GM blahblah don't be alarmed. You want to see something cool?"
he teleported all the hacking bots.. and there were more then we expected around 10, only one visible to us. Then whisked them away to the jail FFXI had for cheaters and harassers.
I like that! Its awesome. Or instead of the jail you see a BIG HAMMER swing, stomping the bot into the ground, exploding!
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Anoteros✭✭✭✭per.lundlib16_ESO wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »per.lundlib16_ESO wrote: »Just set the value of soulgems to 0, there's nothing else in there worth spending time farming.. unless you want some blues to breakdown, and the exp is abysmal after the first kill.
You can't take this approach. The farmers will just park the bots elsewhere until that mob is nerfed. Then the next and the next. Meanwhile we as players lose more and more options. It would just be a snake eatings own tail. In the end, the bots will still be in the game and we are the losers. A different approach must be taken.
Tbh, I'm not sure it can be done.. just look at a game like WoW, 10 years in it's just as infested as it's ever been. Standing outside The botanica one can see an endless train of bots, like lemmings, going to and from the vendors below ;p
They are not hampering your ability to get a dungeon clear or stop you from loot.
WoW has handled botting and gold spam pretty well as did Rift.0 -
Censorious✭✭✭✭Yes, many bots are 'regular' players who've bought a bot program.
A search on Google will throw up dozens of them. That's where the money is being made and why it's so difficult to eradicate.
Many kids see it as a convenient way to level their character to end game without having to actually play the game. (Yes, I know...but that's the way they think.)'Clever' sigs get old real fast - just like this one.0 -
zinoviy22b14_ESO✭✭✭zinoviy22b14_ESO wrote: »Why not just spawn the boss in different places throughout the dungeon...? I don't know why they think it needs to be at the end like its glued to the floor
Then they'll path. My first MMO was FFXI and the ran NMMs had several spawn points. I remember bots just run laps on times waiting while the more advance ones did the teleport PoS hack.
Then one day trying to farm my monk fist weapons with a few friends, a GM came and whispered us individually with questions that a bot couldn't respond to.. "Hi I'm GM blahblah don't be alarmed. You want to see something cool?"
he teleported all the hacking bots.. and there were more then we expected around 10, only one visible to us. Then whisked them away to the jail FFXI had for cheaters and harassers.
I like that! Its awesome. Or instead of the jail you see a BIG HAMMER swing, stomping the bot into the ground, exploding!
Also Square Enix was the first company to go after these websites for property damages before Blizzard did.
They started to sue the gold sellers, then Blizzard got the legal rights a few years after to do the same. It was a big turn around for companies to truly fight gold sellers.0 -
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Many people have complained that bots are in the dungeons, farming boss loot to make money. I probably even complained too. ZeniMax plans to combat this by putting a timer on boss loot. But I think loot is only a part of the problem.
By watching these bots in dungeons, even up to the level 40 dungeons, I began thinking "Are these bots really only after loot?"
I often see similarly equipped people in dungeons and past level 40 they are always in groups of 2 or 3...but usually not more. Their names are not totally ridiculous like "wyhgdga", but rather names that might be considered normal. If they were just after loot, why not have a name like "ehehtetg"?
The reason is, I believe, that these bots are / will someday be real people's characters. They are power leveling off the boss. Or they are paying someone to power level them. The loot is just a bonus. They go from dungeon to dungeon until they get to level 50.
A bot probably couldn't power level as effectively outside because it would have to run around and find enemies and others could take them. But in a dungeon there is just 1 enemy, bots are guaranteed a good amount of exp, and the respawn rate is fast. This sounds like a good power-leveling strategy to me (if you are sleeping or at work / school).
So, what's my point? My point is that putting on a loot timer is not going stop the bots because that is not the only reason they are doing that. An EXP timer might also be a good idea (or something like that). Real players can go out into the world and find other ways to get EXP. It won't be as easy for bots.
What do you think?
GREAT IDEA man!
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MilkromedaSoul ShrivenI think the best solution is to auto-port to the dungeon exit after 3 consecutive kills of a dungeon boss. The legit players then only have to clear a few baddies to continue their repetitive conquest for loot/xp. Meanwhile the automated bots are eliminated.Edited by Milkromeda on April 21, 2014 2:54PM0
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GoblynlordSoul ShrivenIMO the problem with the bots isn't the open dungeons. Its several things including the boss fights.
Have the bosses spawn in immune to damage. (so they are not insta-killed by bots before they can react) Give them a telegraphed AOE that they use while immune.* If you don't dodge that AOE you die. After a short time the immunity wears off, the real fight starts like normal. The "warm-up" sequence might not kill all the bots, but perhaps it will kill them often enough to discourage farming them.
* For weaker bosses you could be more creative. For example: maybe the AOE isn't an attack of the boss, but a cave in damaging anyone in the room.
Another thing would be to force them to run the dungeon again. Its usually not hard to run from the entrance to the boss. But every detriment helps make this less profitable for them. So make it so you get no xp or loot from the boss unless you click on the door to enter.
Its simple. Have clicking on the door set an enable loot/xp flag. Then have looting the boss remove that flag.* So players and bots wanting to farm the boss have to run from the start for each kill.
Others suggested a timer, but a timer could be simply waited out. This forces the cheaters to use more complex bots. It adds a greater chance that the bots will get hung up on something and break.
*Also have teleporting to guild or party members remove this flag.
You can't get rid of bots completely. But you can make it less easy and profitable to use them.2 -
Ospoon✭✭How about killing the boss gets you no loot at all, just experience one time, and then you can loot a nearby chest, which up to that point was locked and unpickable, to get your reward. This chest can only be successfully looted once, and is available for every player in the area at any given time to access for their own loot?
No more bots in dungeons.....
That's a decent idea, but here's the catch: all the whiners would then cry and moan about getting nothing but trash loot and never having another shot at it.
They could make the green+ items bind-on-acquire, only de-constructable, and worth zero gold. Taking that step further to ensure the bots leave them alone, remove any gold drops as well. Plenty of other green+ level items (and gold) drop from world mobs and chests, so it wouldn't be any major loss to your treasure pool. The caveat with that though, is then the goldsellers could break down the items and sell the mats, but those are pretty plentiful as well. I digress...
Edited by Ospoon on April 21, 2014 3:07PM0 -
Ospoon✭✭zinoviy22b14_ESO wrote: »zinoviy22b14_ESO wrote: »Why not just spawn the boss in different places throughout the dungeon...? I don't know why they think it needs to be at the end like its glued to the floor
Then they'll path. My first MMO was FFXI and the ran NMMs had several spawn points. I remember bots just run laps on times waiting while the more advance ones did the teleport PoS hack.
Then one day trying to farm my monk fist weapons with a few friends, a GM came and whispered us individually with questions that a bot couldn't respond to.. "Hi I'm GM blahblah don't be alarmed. You want to see something cool?"
he teleported all the hacking bots.. and there were more then we expected around 10, only one visible to us. Then whisked them away to the jail FFXI had for cheaters and harassers.
I like that! Its awesome. Or instead of the jail you see a BIG HAMMER swing, stomping the bot into the ground, exploding!
Also Square Enix was the first company to go after these websites for property damages before Blizzard did.
They started to sue the gold sellers, then Blizzard got the legal rights a few years after to do the same. It was a big turn around for companies to truly fight gold sellers.
Yeah, SE has their own team on each MMO that specifically goes after RMT/Goldsellers. I honestly can't think of the last time I received spam mail or a random RMT /tell in either one, though i'll grant you it's been a long time since I played XI.
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crush83✭✭✭✭qwertyburnsb16_ESO wrote: »
LOL. I already told you. It's a completely custom application that runs on the client. It doesn't even need you to install ESO. It's simply an application that sends packets to Zenimax's server, and receives a response. It processes the response, and sends packets back to Zenimax's server.
It's a client emulator. Sheesh.
Sure, there are some noobs who run scripts against Zenimax's client. They will get banned.
This won't stop the real botters. Nothing Zenimax implements on the client-side will stop them. Sorry kids. The answer is Zenimax implementing security/analytics server side.Edited by crush83 on April 21, 2014 3:16PM1 -
TeRyn✭✭✭They should just make it where if you stand still too long you die instantly then have to submit a help ticket in order to respawn.
2 seconds should be sufficient time.1 -
I think a better idea would be to put the bosses loot drops in a chest on the other side of the one-way door they have in every public dungeon.
That way you can kill the boss - check loot, if it's rubbish - run the instance again from the start for another chance to kill them. If you got a good drop then walk out the door.
Bot's typically won't do well against multiple enemies so likely will have problems running the instance themselves and it would push the bots out into the open world where they can fight one or two mobs at a time.1 -
crush83✭✭✭✭For the last time. Diminishing returns. It seems some of you might not know what that means.
It's simple.
You have a 10 minute cooldown window. If you kill the boss inside of that 10 minute cooldown window, then the cooldown window is refreshed for another 10 minutes.
Each time you kill the boss within the cooldown window, your chances of getting loot are decreased.
1st kill. 75% chance blue. 100% chance soul gem.
2nd kill. 60% chance blue. 80% chance soul gem.
3rd kill. 45% chance blue. 60% chance soul gem.
4th kill. 30% chance blue. 40% chance soul gem.
5th kill. 15% chance blue. 20% chance soul gem.
6th kill. 0% chance blue. 0% chance soul gem.
If you leave for 10 minutes, without killing that particular boss, and come back, then it resets, and you get the chances for the "1st kill".
Not only does this eliminate any profitability from bots spawn camping a boss, but it also doesn't make it impossible for a player to get the blue item if they miss it on the first roll.
Obviously the percentages and length of timer should be changed according to what fits best according to Zenimax's analytics.0 -
crush83✭✭✭✭
He's got a catheter tube. No need to leave the chair. Grandma brings down sandwiches every hour on the hour.0 -
Dionysis✭✭
He's got a catheter tube. No need to leave the chair. Grandma brings down sandwiches every hour on the hour.
My mind goes to South Park. "Mom! Toilet!"
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Kyosji✭✭✭
He's got a catheter tube. No need to leave the chair. Grandma brings down sandwiches every hour on the hour.
Reminds me of this:
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ijRoberts✭✭✭The bots are already above ground. I was running around Shadowfen and ran across a group of bots (5 or 6) that were running around farming the trolls. They were all grouped up and running the exact same circuit in a line, hitting the trolls just as they would respawn from the previous kill.
All I could do was report it.0 -
crush83✭✭✭✭It's just a matter of time until bots are running around in pvp with automatic healers training around with them making them virtually unkillable.
Same thing with the really hard boss encounters.
I wouldn't be surprised if bots are already farming the private dungeons as well.0 -
YourNameHere✭✭✭I wish they would do something. My poor husband has been trying for the half hour to get a boos achievement in a dungeon, but there are 9 bots clustered on top of the mob (I'm looking at the screen right now) and it died in less than 2 seconds.
He can't change instances to try someplace else, even when relogging.
This is not fun in any way.NA Megaserver / RPer
Alinyssa Gaethar - AD || Raahni-do - AD || Wind-In-Tree's-Shadow - DC1 -
Nordak✭✭Jesus, the solution is simple, Hire GM's to ban the bots and gold spammers... This game is screwed if Zenimax isn't going to at least do this2
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crush83✭✭✭✭Jesus, the solution is simple, Hire GM's to ban the bots and gold spammers... This game is screwed if Zenimax isn't going to at least do this
Quoted for emphasis. Stop policing the forums so hard when a mild insult is rightfully thrown out, and get in game and start banning the blatantly obvious botters. Jesus.0
