Toxicity Data for Vote Kicking in Vet Content

VoxAdActa · August 2020

So, after reading all these pages, I agree with the others that this doesn't pass the smell test.

I have never once been kicked, for two years worth of playing, on my stamblade dps.

Being kicked before the last boss is generally one of two things: frustration or punishment.

I've seen about a half-dozen people get kicked right before the last boss; a couple were fake tanks (when the lack of a tank caused us to struggled in the run-up), but the rest were light-attack/snipe spammers who did less DPS than the real tank, and responded poorly to advice or suggestions. Why should we keep them for the last boss, when we clearly won't be getting any benefit from having them in the fight anyway?

But I kept reading, thinking there had to be some other thing going on here, because my initial assumption is that everyone is representing their position honestly and in good faith.

Then, right at the end, I got to this:

I back bar Efficient purge, Barrier and Venom arrow in all my dps toons.

Ah. Well, there it is. You sacrifice three skills in your rotation, one of them your second-highest dps dot (Lethal Injection, the other morph of Venom Arrow), and for what? Two survival skills and a "I don't feel like sprinting to bash" skill that hits like a hollow potato.

Which tells me you have a hard time staying alive (or you wouldn't need barrier and purge), and your rotation is two buttons short of a full round (at minimum, assuming those aren't the only non-damage skills you've backbarred; so, no Vigor, for example).

Combine that with your stubborn refusal to post your logs, and your equally stubborn refusal to listen to the other posters who are trying to tell you things, and it all make sense.

You either aren't good at avoiding damage, or you do low dps, or both. To the point that every PUG you group with is so frustrated with your performance and/or your inability to take constructive criticism that you're getting kicked; they refuse to carry you through the last boss.

ThePianist · August 2020

Amunari wrote: »

To be honest there is a lot of really bad opinions on these forums, and a whole lot of ignorance (and lets be clear here that is not an attack, its a word we use in the english language to describe people who don't know what they are talking about).Iv seen a few times people mentioning "voting". Voting Is not by any means a way of finding out what a good/solid position on a topic is. This is especially the case when pooling peoples opinions about things like aspects of game development.

A great example of this would be saying that the trading system we have now is good, because people voted on it. That does not mean its good, and it for sure does not mean it cannot be better. When we look at the current culture around trading systems for example, we see players conducting themselves in a manner that is really not good for the game on both a social, and economic level. Players are actually preventing trade because they are greedy for the 10% tax that is in place on the trading system.

However, There is by far superior ways to deal with this problem and enabling the economic viscosity of the game to be better higher. The solution is to create a system for the game for income to be taxed on all activities instead of just trading. For example, if you sold/vendor items of 100g, 10g would go to the bank. This would remove the need for mandatory groups, tax systems, dues, trade rates etc and shift the interaction of people back into a healthy position.

In its current culture, trade guilds are actually hurting their own income by limiting wts/wtb concepts to not be allowed in guild chat. Why? because when people trade the money shifts around. Some people are stingy with their gold, others are not. You may see a multi-millionaire not donate a dime, but a person with 100k gold donate 10% of his wealth. Additionally, when guilds limit trade in this way they are significantly viscosity of wealth in a guild which results in consolidation of it effectively causing the guilds trade to rest purely on the hands of few people. I have witnessed this for months now.

I mention trade because it is one of the key aspects of the game that is having issues, Similar to that of grouping in dungeons. As for group voting, there is a similar problem with culture. A few days ago i was in a dungeon and i was pulling 65% Of the damage of the vet group. I was removed for "low damage" after i trolled a little and stopped dps and ask them why things were not dying to prove that i was carrying the damage. Mind you, they kicked me on the last boss a very malicious act.

The point here is that the group vote system is problematic, Like that of voting to validate things in the trade aspects of eso.
The key and most important take away from this is Voting is not a good system in the hands of the masses, and ignorant . Voting should be left to the extremely wise, knowledgeable in their absence (and not the other way around), and never, ever in the hands of the masses for any reason.

In game developer we have developers dedicated specifically to finding out feedback about a game (they are called ux designers). These designers employ a large amount of research and various research methods to find out opinions. The process is actually very well executed.

As for the mechanic of voting people to be kicked, it really should be replaced with an automated afk feature that if they do not deal x amount of damage/healing with in 3 minutes they should be removed (or a vote kick should be enabled at that point) from the dungeon/battleground. This will remove the abuse but still resolve the issue that gives reason to the group voting system to exist in the game.

Agreed.

Well there are guilds that don’t ask for taxes. My guild for example, 5 people including me and the owner pvp a lot in imperial city. We are pretty set with the amount of money from tel var so we don’t ask for taxes. The guild taxation can be fixed by having guild trader rotations. Or have 1 guild trader represent 5 other guilds.

Yup, getting kicked before the last boss is common nowadays. Good thing the dungeon port exploit still works 50% of the time. I’ll just port back, hide and leech exp. Then they wonder why their 4th man can’t port due to “instance full” ;D.

redspecter23 · August 2020

ThePianist wrote: »

Amunari wrote: »

To be honest there is a lot of really bad opinions on these forums, and a whole lot of ignorance (and lets be clear here that is not an attack, its a word we use in the english language to describe people who don't know what they are talking about).Iv seen a few times people mentioning "voting". Voting Is not by any means a way of finding out what a good/solid position on a topic is. This is especially the case when pooling peoples opinions about things like aspects of game development.

A great example of this would be saying that the trading system we have now is good, because people voted on it. That does not mean its good, and it for sure does not mean it cannot be better. When we look at the current culture around trading systems for example, we see players conducting themselves in a manner that is really not good for the game on both a social, and economic level. Players are actually preventing trade because they are greedy for the 10% tax that is in place on the trading system.

However, There is by far superior ways to deal with this problem and enabling the economic viscosity of the game to be better higher. The solution is to create a system for the game for income to be taxed on all activities instead of just trading. For example, if you sold/vendor items of 100g, 10g would go to the bank. This would remove the need for mandatory groups, tax systems, dues, trade rates etc and shift the interaction of people back into a healthy position.

In its current culture, trade guilds are actually hurting their own income by limiting wts/wtb concepts to not be allowed in guild chat. Why? because when people trade the money shifts around. Some people are stingy with their gold, others are not. You may see a multi-millionaire not donate a dime, but a person with 100k gold donate 10% of his wealth. Additionally, when guilds limit trade in this way they are significantly viscosity of wealth in a guild which results in consolidation of it effectively causing the guilds trade to rest purely on the hands of few people. I have witnessed this for months now.

I mention trade because it is one of the key aspects of the game that is having issues, Similar to that of grouping in dungeons. As for group voting, there is a similar problem with culture. A few days ago i was in a dungeon and i was pulling 65% Of the damage of the vet group. I was removed for "low damage" after i trolled a little and stopped dps and ask them why things were not dying to prove that i was carrying the damage. Mind you, they kicked me on the last boss a very malicious act.

The point here is that the group vote system is problematic, Like that of voting to validate things in the trade aspects of eso.
The key and most important take away from this is Voting is not a good system in the hands of the masses, and ignorant . Voting should be left to the extremely wise, knowledgeable in their absence (and not the other way around), and never, ever in the hands of the masses for any reason.

In game developer we have developers dedicated specifically to finding out feedback about a game (they are called ux designers). These designers employ a large amount of research and various research methods to find out opinions. The process is actually very well executed.

As for the mechanic of voting people to be kicked, it really should be replaced with an automated afk feature that if they do not deal x amount of damage/healing with in 3 minutes they should be removed (or a vote kick should be enabled at that point) from the dungeon/battleground. This will remove the abuse but still resolve the issue that gives reason to the group voting system to exist in the game.

Agreed.

Well there are guilds that don’t ask for taxes. My guild for example, 5 people including me and the owner pvp a lot in imperial city. We are pretty set with the amount of money from tel var so we don’t ask for taxes. The guild taxation can be fixed by having guild trader rotations. Or have 1 guild trader represent 5 other guilds.

Yup, getting kicked before the last boss is common nowadays. Good thing the dungeon port exploit still works 50% of the time. I’ll just port back, hide and leech exp. Then they wonder why their 4th man can’t port due to “instance full” ;D.

I would probably edit out that part about you actively exploiting a game system mechanic. ZOS frowns on that sort of thing.

Wyrd88 · August 2020

redspecter23 wrote: »

ThePianist wrote: »

Yup, getting kicked before the last boss is common nowadays. Good thing the dungeon port exploit still works 50% of the time. I’ll just port back, hide and leech exp. Then they wonder why their 4th man can’t port due to “instance full” ;D.

I would probably edit out that part about you actively exploiting a game system mechanic. ZOS frowns on that sort of thing.

Nah, he doesn't exploiting anything. Just telling a tall stories about kicking, toxic elitists and purges on back bar and expecting that people are gonna believe him.

Xologamer · August 2020

TwinLamps wrote: »

I guess you should report them if you think its done to grief you

there is no reason to spam the support for things which arnt forbidden

universal_wrath · August 2020

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

ThePianist wrote: »

We need to see which classes or play styles get vote kicked the most in Vet Dungeons. Then we can decide what action to take, to make those classes viable in Vet content. Magsorc shouldn’t be the cream of the crop for pve and pvp.

I know this is an MMO but let’s be reasonable for a second. Since the “RONA” started, I’ve been working full time. I’m not one of these afraid-of-the-sun pve elitists.

Vet content should be viable in pugs without the toxicity, and without the abuse of the vote kicking option.

I have a max stamnecro, magblade and stamblade and I’m always getting vote kicked for no reason. This isn’t about a dps issue, it’s about getting kicked on the last boss. This is the abuse that I’m talking about. Some people think it’s funny to kick a random pug on the last boss.

What can we do about this? Vet content is already impossible for most stamina players. It must be really toxic for new players I guess.

There are definitely troll groups out there who do this - they wait until the last boss then kick you just to be a ____. I've even had them kick me after the last boss was dead and the dungeon was over just to be annoying. It's also why I think friends who queue up together should only count as one vote toward kicking someone. Currently it's too easy for a group of friends to abuse the kick function and torment the one pug player in the group with the way it is now.

The best you can do is just report them and hope ZoS does something about it.

Groups who kick after last boss usually do random dungeons, they kick you so they can queue for the next dungeon. I have been in some groups, I personaly asl people to leave, but some can't even read english, so we end up kicking these guys.

I didn't know this.

Is this for the high-level daily random reward, or the lesser repeater one?

And why would a kick be necessary?

Mostly for exp grind and sometimes for loot farming. Kick would be necessary if the random person is wasting time by not leaving the group even after being asked to leave. Like the other day, my friend and I were leveling a guild mate through dungeons, as as we finish the dungeon, we queud up for the next one.

universal_wrath · August 2020

Raisin wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

ThePianist wrote: »

We need to see which classes or play styles get vote kicked the most in Vet Dungeons. Then we can decide what action to take, to make those classes viable in Vet content. Magsorc shouldn’t be the cream of the crop for pve and pvp.

I know this is an MMO but let’s be reasonable for a second. Since the “RONA” started, I’ve been working full time. I’m not one of these afraid-of-the-sun pve elitists.

Vet content should be viable in pugs without the toxicity, and without the abuse of the vote kicking option.

I have a max stamnecro, magblade and stamblade and I’m always getting vote kicked for no reason. This isn’t about a dps issue, it’s about getting kicked on the last boss. This is the abuse that I’m talking about. Some people think it’s funny to kick a random pug on the last boss.

What can we do about this? Vet content is already impossible for most stamina players. It must be really toxic for new players I guess.

There are definitely troll groups out there who do this - they wait until the last boss then kick you just to be a ____. I've even had them kick me after the last boss was dead and the dungeon was over just to be annoying. It's also why I think friends who queue up together should only count as one vote toward kicking someone. Currently it's too easy for a group of friends to abuse the kick function and torment the one pug player in the group with the way it is now.

The best you can do is just report them and hope ZoS does something about it.

Groups who kick after last boss usually do random dungeons, they kick you so they can queue for the next dungeon. I have been in some groups, I personaly asl people to leave, but some can't even read english, so we end up kicking these guys.

I didn't know this.

Is this for the high-level daily random reward, or the lesser repeater one?

And why would a kick be necessary?

It doesn't have to be for any reward. Sometimes a group of 3 is just doing things together because they enjoy doing those things. Like dungeons. If they had a good time with you or found you to be a very good player they may ask you to come along for more. If they didn't feel that way, they want you out of the group so they can queue again. I understand why a wordless kick is common there because I'd find asking someone to leave the group equally awkward, and personally believe that kicking someone after the end of a dungeon is very clearly in no way a real kick. My own tendency though is to leave the group and then re-group with my friends, but that's really just me being awkward and trying to avoid the slight weirdness of kicking the extra dude.

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I used to play a DK healer and would definitely get kicked because of my class/role combination on occasion (probably about 1 in 10 runs, always accompanied by messages about how DKs can't heal). Aside from that, I've never really noticed any class-related trends in kick votes.

Generally speaking, the reasons I see people getting kicked are limited to:
1) Fake tanking (i.e. queueing as tank and not even trying to play the role)
2) Repeated failure to do mechanics
3) Scapegoating of the tank or healer when the run isn't going well (even though about half the time the problem is inadequate DPS)

DK heal was my 1st char, got kick once at the start of a DG. Someone explain to me that DK is not good somehow.
Then I just started every DG with "STOP don't kick me yet, let do it and if you lack of something then kick me" Never get kicked anymore.
Any healer work, DG are not raid you don't need a full meta comp to have a smooth run.

My only heal is dk. No problems on my side.

To be clear, I don't think DK healers are bad. I've just noticed that when I played one regularly I would sometimes get kicked because of my class, which isn't something I've ever had happen with any of my other characters (mostly healers).

In almost all of the cases where this happened it was preceded by a message in group chat along the lines of "healer is DK, kick", and was occasionally followed by direct messages about how people playing non-Templar healers are ruining the game and I've been reported. This even included many cases where the dungeon run was going well, so it wasn't a performance problem either.

I haven't played that character much in a couple years, so maybe things are better now, but it certainly used to be a problem on the PS4 NA server.

I think DK is just the most unusual healer class, so people make the assumption you're not an actual healer. Personally I've never kicked someone on that assumption (we always wait to see what they actually do), but in most cases a DK 'healer' means you don't actually have a healer. You're probably getting the bad end of an unfortunate knee-jerk reaction. People get frustrated and don't want to wait to find out you're actually a healer, which ends up being unfair to you.

I agree with that, I had a dk healer 3 years ago, you really need to work hard for the heals, but it is possible and fun. People will always question your role, some will think your trolling or fake healer. I personally been kicked before while I had my dk healer, because nobody heard of a dk healer. Current version of dk healer is more appealing than it was 3 years ago. I think it is unique and it is better suited with group shielding. My main two skills at that time were cautirzie and obsidian shield. I had trinimac set and combat physician as my support sets.

ThePianist · August 2020

Wyrd88 wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

ThePianist wrote: »

Yup, getting kicked before the last boss is common nowadays. Good thing the dungeon port exploit still works 50% of the time. I’ll just port back, hide and leech exp. Then they wonder why their 4th man can’t port due to “instance full” ;D.

I would probably edit out that part about you actively exploiting a game system mechanic. ZOS frowns on that sort of thing.

Nah, he doesn't exploiting anything. Just telling a tall stories about kicking, toxic elitists and purges on back bar and expecting that people are gonna believe him.

Time of the month huh? Here I am having a discussion about helping people and here you are on the pedestal talking about what dps should run or not. Talk all you want about me running purge on the back bar. Answer this one simple question.

What 👏🏽 is 👏🏽 wrong 👏🏽 with 👏🏽 helping 👏🏽 people?

Wyrd88 · August 2020

ThePianist wrote: »

If players claim they’ve played since Launch and can’t carry low 300’s in a vet content like unhallowed grave, kick option is the only scapegoat to blame for their own lack of knowledge. Its unacceptable behavior.

Well, as a dps I can carry someone through pretty much all of the vet dlc content, including some HMs, because I don't run Purge and Barrier on my back bar. But there's question. Why should I?

ThePianist wrote: »

Time of the month huh? Here I am having a discussion about helping people and here you are on the pedestal talking about what dps should run or not.

And you're talking about other people beign toxic. M'kay.

ThePianist wrote: »

Here I am having a discussion about helping people and here you are on the pedestal talking about what dps should run or not. Talk all you want about me running purge on the back bar.

You started this thread not about helping people, but about you beign kicked from dungeons on a daily basis. There's a full ton of answers about that, what might be a reason for kicking and stuff. Also there's a full ton of questions about your dps, build and stuff, which might be a reason for kicking, but you're just ignored it and start talking about helping people.

After reading your posts, including from some other threads, where you complaining about stamDKs and stamWardens somehow abusing Grothdarr in BGs (like, wut) I can assume that you clearly have no idea how things in this game works.
So, please, don't give any advises to anyone. You just make things worse.

ThePianist · August 2020

Wyrd88 wrote: »

ThePianist wrote: »

If players claim they’ve played since Launch and can’t carry low 300’s in a vet content like unhallowed grave, kick option is the only scapegoat to blame for their own lack of knowledge. Its unacceptable behavior.

Well, as a dps I can carry someone through pretty much all of the vet dlc content, including some HMs, because I don't run Purge and Barrier on my back bar. But there's question. Why should I?

ThePianist wrote: »

Time of the month huh? Here I am having a discussion about helping people and here you are on the pedestal talking about what dps should run or not.

And you're talking about other people beign toxic. M'kay.

Have a wife? Husband? Kids? A job?

When you find the answer from the bottom of your heart, please let us know “what’s wrong with helping people”. ✌️

Wyrd88 · August 2020

ThePianist wrote: »

Have a wife? Husband? Kids? A job?

When you find the answer from the bottom of your heart, please let us know “what’s wrong with helping people”. ✌️

How does it relate to the topic?
When you find the answer from the top of your head, please let us know.

Fawn4287 · August 2020

If anything there should be some sort of rating and scoring system for PvE group finder, you could add trials back to activity finder if you knew people were competent. Someone could set a minimum rating for PvE content to match with equal players. If I see someone on the first boss doing something somewhat reminiscent of a rotation I have no issue what so ever, however regardless of CP if I see someone do nothing but lightning staff heavy attacking a boss or spamming snipe you are getting the vote to kick. A rating system that indicates how often someone is booted as well as how often and regularly they fail to complete content would make activity finder far more used, since now I currently use guilds to find players for most DLC vet content.

Seminolegirl1992 · August 2020

ThePianist wrote: »

Wyrd88 wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

ThePianist wrote: »

Yup, getting kicked before the last boss is common nowadays. Good thing the dungeon port exploit still works 50% of the time. I’ll just port back, hide and leech exp. Then they wonder why their 4th man can’t port due to “instance full” ;D.

I would probably edit out that part about you actively exploiting a game system mechanic. ZOS frowns on that sort of thing.

Nah, he doesn't exploiting anything. Just telling a tall stories about kicking, toxic elitists and purges on back bar and expecting that people are gonna believe him.

Time of the month huh? Here I am having a discussion about helping people and here you are on the pedestal talking about what dps should run or not. Talk all you want about me running purge on the back bar. Answer this one simple question.

What 👏🏽 is 👏🏽 wrong 👏🏽 with 👏🏽 helping 👏🏽 people?

"Time of the month." I think we know why you get kicked. You initiated a discussion about classes that you think are underperforming because you get kicked constantly. When people offer suggestions as to what the problem could be and offer advice as to your setup, you get salty. They were right- running three survival skills sacrifices dps skills you could be slotting. You don't need to run meta to avoid being kicked in vet dungeons...but running those three skills and not doing enough dps certainly will. You shouldn't need purge or barrier. Vigor is good enough. Barrier and purge are unheard of in dungeons...trials, yes, but dungeons hell no. And only on a dps in extremely specific circumstances. As for your last question. There's nothing wrong with helping people- that's exactly what we're trying to do. As for you helping others by slotting those skills...you're not. As a dps your job is to dps. Follow mechanics. Stay alive. Which is actually easier when you kill things quickly.

Seminolegirl1992 · August 2020

ThePianist wrote: »

Wyrd88 wrote: »

ThePianist wrote: »

If players claim they’ve played since Launch and can’t carry low 300’s in a vet content like unhallowed grave, kick option is the only scapegoat to blame for their own lack of knowledge. Its unacceptable behavior.

Well, as a dps I can carry someone through pretty much all of the vet dlc content, including some HMs, because I don't run Purge and Barrier on my back bar. But there's question. Why should I?

ThePianist wrote: »

Time of the month huh? Here I am having a discussion about helping people and here you are on the pedestal talking about what dps should run or not.

And you're talking about other people beign toxic. M'kay.

Have a wife? Husband? Kids? A job?

When you find the answer from the bottom of your heart, please let us know “what’s wrong with helping people”. ✌️

My raid leader is a grown woman, married, and works in a hospital. Most of the team (from what I can tell without asking personal questions) lead incredibly busy lives but that does not stop them from being competent or good at the game or at least willing to learn. If that's what you were implying anyway (that being busy somehow prevents you from learning/improving). I think the tired old trope that end game players all have no lives is completely false and not at all representative of the majority.

Saubon · August 2020

ThePianist wrote: »

I have a max stamnecro, magblade and stamblade and I’m always getting vote kicked for no reason. This isn’t about a dps issue, it’s about getting kicked on the last boss. This is the abuse that I’m talking about. Some people think it’s funny to kick a random pug on the last boss.

While there are players who will votekick you for stupid reasons, I doubt this is the case, you don't meet this people very often. If they kicked you on the last boss they probably weren't sure if they can kill it with you as a DD and they said nothig because they didn't wanted to hurt your feelings.

ThePianist wrote: »

We need to see which classes or play styles get vote kicked the most in Vet Dungeons. Then we can decide what action to take, to make those classes viable in Vet content. Magsorc shouldn’t be the cream of the crop for pve and pvp.

These statistics are good for showing which classes are played by beginners and nothing more. This isn't wow and M+, playing "better" class won't double your dps or make you immune to game mechanics and red circles. You play a magblade which is one of the best classes for dungeons and you still get kicked.

volkeswagon · August 2020

I had a guildmate invite me to do pledges once on vet. He got two other players to join and i wasn't familiar with the dungeon and chat stopped working so I couldn't figure out what to do so I died alot at one boss. They kicked me without any text message or anything. That was my last dungeon.

Raisin · August 2020

So to summarize the information we've gotten so far, OP:
- Is rude and insulting
- Starts fights/arguments
- Refuses to listen
- Refuses to accept any responsibility
- Does bad DPS

Ignoring that this has turned out to be a troll post, OP in an actual PUG would be an agent of Vaermina, making the nightmares of PUGgers come to life.

I'd say this is a valuable lesson that teaches us to appreciate that we have the ability to vote kick people.

Wyrd88 · August 2020

After summarizing all the information and stuff I just cannot resist and gonna add some insult to injury here

ThePianist wrote: »

As I’ve stated in the past post, I’ve finished all vet content.

No, you are not. Your group does. And you were just carried.

idk · August 2020

Raisin wrote: »

So to summarize the information we've gotten so far, OP:
- Is rude and insulting
- Starts fights/arguments
- Refuses to listen
- Refuses to accept any responsibility
- Does bad DPS

Ignoring that this has turned out to be a troll post, OP in an actual PUG would be an agent of Vaermina, making the nightmares of PUGgers come to life.

I'd say this is a valuable lesson that teaches us to appreciate that we have the ability to vote kick people.

I agree on all points.

Eifleber · August 2020

universal_wrath wrote: »

I agree with that, I had a dk healer 3 years ago, you really need to work hard for the heals, but it is possible and fun. People will always question your role, some will think your trolling or fake healer.

I personally been kicked before while I had my dk healer, because nobody heard of a dk healer. Current version of dk healer is more appealing than it was 3 years ago. I think it is unique and it is better suited with group shielding. My main two skills at that time were cautirzie and obsidian shield. I had trinimac set and combat physician as my support sets.

Well with all the available Restoration Staff skills it's hard not to be at least a decent healer for any magicka character.

My main is an allround HE MagDK and she always heals when doing dungeons, never encountered any problems.
Although I agree wardens and templars have some added value it doesn't prevent you from successfully doing vet Frostvault or Unhallowed Grave for example. Besides, bosses mostly kill you because of mechanics or instakill attacks anyway, not because you can't outheal their damage (there's a few exceptions).
Must say that personally I never really mind what classes my group has - as long as they do their job.

ThePianist · August 2020

Raisin wrote: »

So to summarize the information we've gotten so far, OP:
- Is rude and insulting
- Starts fights/arguments
- Refuses to listen
- Refuses to accept any responsibility
- Does bad DPS

Ignoring that this has turned out to be a troll post, OP in an actual PUG would be an agent of Vaermina, making the nightmares of PUGgers come to life.

I'd say this is a valuable lesson that teaches us to appreciate that we have the ability to vote kick people.

Troll post? I’ve made all my points clear. So far, I’ve seen many people here supporting the abuse of vote kicking. Instead of answering “What’s wrong with trying to helping people”. I get imaginary assumptions and rhetorics of dps builds, mechanics, l2p, swerving and avoiding to answer my question to redirect at another topic, ect...

This is why the option to vote kick should not be in the game.

Artorias24 · August 2020

ThePianist wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

So to summarize the information we've gotten so far, OP:
- Is rude and insulting
- Starts fights/arguments
- Refuses to listen
- Refuses to accept any responsibility
- Does bad DPS

Ignoring that this has turned out to be a troll post, OP in an actual PUG would be an agent of Vaermina, making the nightmares of PUGgers come to life.

I'd say this is a valuable lesson that teaches us to appreciate that we have the ability to vote kick people.

Troll post? I’ve made all my points clear. So far, I’ve seen many people here supporting the abuse of vote kicking. Instead of answering “What’s wrong with trying to helping people”. I get imaginary assumptions and rhetorics of dps builds, mechanics, l2p, swerving and avoiding to answer my question to redirect at another topic, ect...

This is why the option to vote kick should not be in the game.

You started you OP about ppl getting vote kicked cause of the class they Play. And ppl told you its rarely due to the class they Play its more of the players build, behavior or level of skill. Sometimes due to their CP when ppl do farm runs and want at least CP 160 in their group.

Every class can do good dps. Every class can do vet dungeons if the player behind the screen is able to use the potential of their class.

And helping ppl or carry them is something different. Personally i am glad If i can help someone! But i dont wanna spend 4 hours in BC 2 for a CP 200 with Level 5 random gear that i dont even know. In my rare gaming time i want to do things that i enjoy and not carry someone through vet content that is not even remotely ready to do such Things.

But If you like those things, nothing wrong with it. No one told you its wrong helping Others. They just told you their opinion about carrying someone.

And we need the Option to vote kick for ppl who are toxic, causes the group to wipe constantly cause they dont listen to the group about mechanics or are intentinally stopping the progress. For example placing interactable momentos infront of doors or chests

Eifleber · August 2020

ThePianist wrote: »

So far, I’ve seen many people here supporting the abuse of vote kicking.

This is why the option to vote kick should not be in the game.

Really there is NO ONE supporting your claim that people are votekicked because of their class on a regular basis.
Every "support" you claim is based on incidents.

You must be realy thick skinned, very dumb or (more likely): you just choose to ignore that fact.

hence Troll.
*

Saubon · August 2020

ThePianist wrote: »

Troll post? I’ve made all my points clear. So far, I’ve seen many people here supporting the abuse of vote kicking. Instead of answering “What’s wrong with trying to helping people”. I get imaginary assumptions and rhetorics of dps builds, mechanics, l2p, swerving and avoiding to answer my question to redirect at another topic, ect...

This is why the option to vote kick should not be in the game.

So because of a single individual who is unable to fulfill his role in a dungeon 3 other players have to leave and que again? I'm sure ppl are willing to explain dungeon mechanics but if someone is doing 0 dmg or die to everything they can't do anything but vote kick him.

Rly, if you have issues with this go and find social guild, you'll see, it will be much nicer experience.

lolo_01b16_ESO · August 2020

Let me answer "what is wrong with trying to help people":

Let's assume I'm done with work at 6pm. Before I go home I do some sport. Then I cook dinner and we eat together. Before I go to bed, I want to play this game for a bit and because my ingame friends work night shift that week, want to spend the evening with their loved one or have another reason to not be playing I join a random group as healer.
The group I get struggels a bit due to low dps and the dds ignoring mechanics, but thanks to an awesome tank we progress slowly through the dungeon.
Throughout the dungeon I have a private chat with the tank. We realize that we are doing more than half the group dps, joke around about it for a bit, agree to try to finish the dungeon with this group even if it takes long and add each other to the friend list.
At some point, already past my usuall bed time, I notice one dd is using skills like purge and barrier. I ask him, if he would mind using something more usefull instead.
He tells me I'm an out-of-sun elitist, he won't listen to me and anyway, he carried people through this dungeon so everything I say doesn't matter.
I vote to kick...
We instantly get a new dd who does decent dps and knows all mechanics so we finish without any further issues.

So while in general it's nice to help people, there is a number of reasons why someone might not want to help a certain person in a certain situation.

mairwen85 · August 2020

[ removed (thought better of it, OP is agitated enough) ]

Pauwer · August 2020

I was once kicked on pc on vet Scalecaller Peak on pc for low cp as a healer. I can't think any other reason, cause only the tank and i knew the mechs, dps were dying in one shots from first boss on, no pillar hiding etc. So when we got to the boss where you have to kill things to make antidote, i was the only person trying to kill them while healing tank and throwing shards. And of course we wiped. And of course my 400 cp butt got kicked

even though i know the dungeon, I have full cp account on ps4 and have many, many Zaan head pieces

so yeah. I still hope they made it through

universal_wrath · August 2020

volkeswagon wrote: »

I had a guildmate invite me to do pledges once on vet. He got two other players to join and i wasn't familiar with the dungeon and chat stopped working so I couldn't figure out what to do so I died alot at one boss. They kicked me without any text message or anything. That was my last dungeon.

You said it yourself, you did not know the mechanics, and you did not seem to understand what they were trying to explain to you.

If you know how to play, the least you can do is watch/read about the new DLC/dungeons mechanics.

universal_wrath · August 2020

Saubon wrote: »

ThePianist wrote: »

Troll post? I’ve made all my points clear. So far, I’ve seen many people here supporting the abuse of vote kicking. Instead of answering “What’s wrong with trying to helping people”. I get imaginary assumptions and rhetorics of dps builds, mechanics, l2p, swerving and avoiding to answer my question to redirect at another topic, ect...

This is why the option to vote kick should not be in the game.

So because of a single individual who is unable to fulfill his role in a dungeon 3 other players have to leave and que again? I'm sure ppl are willing to explain dungeon mechanics but if someone is doing 0 dmg or die to everything they can't do anything but vote kick him.

Rly, if you have issues with this go and find social guild, you'll see, it will be much nicer experience.

I agree, best advice for op is to join social guild and do thier runs together. Guildmate are least people to kick each othef, to some extend of course.

OP is dead focused on ignoring every point mentioned against his claim and make it look like everyone else is at wrong.

Tommy_The_Gun · August 2020

There are absurdly ridiculous reasons why people will kick some one. I remember that clear as day:

- One time I was on my tank and got kicked... the reason was... not dying. Yeah. That happened. 2 DPS & healer were dying to mechanics. I was doing my best to aggro everything and CC it in the AOE of my DPS... but I can not CC the rest of my team to stop them from running into red / stupid... (this was before Earthgore set).
- The other time, some one must have had an add-on or something, because I got kicked for... doing more DMG than one of DPS... Yep, that happened too. I was doing probably like 8 - 10K DPS... quite normal for a tank. Also, battles were soo long, because we had apparently a "fake dps" in a group... oh well...

In general, I think that vote-kick system should be changed, so it would require 3 votes to kick someone, vs 2 votes as it is right now. If some one is trolling (kick system is there to kick trolls / griefers, not bad players) this would help a lot. The decision to kick someone is final. There is no going back from it. It should be decision of 3 player out of 4, not 2 out of 4.

And this is pretty much one of the reasons I dislike group dungeons. Because I know that sooner or later I will have a "joker" in my random group. So - If I do dungeons - I do them mostly solo. If it can be done solo - then I do those alone.