montiferus wrote: »I think people are jumping to conclusions way to much.
This aoe change seems temporary and extreme to see if it effects performance.
Similar to turning off the ac in a car on a very hot day, to see if the engine still sounds labored. It’s not sustainable, but it helps pinpoint where the problem is.
This appears to be an experiment to see if the server issues are from aoes. If that is the issue, then they will go from there. If not, then there is nothing to worry about.
Let them see if this is the cause of lag, then debate what the solution should be.
I agree totally. I have been designing and testing software for 20+ years. Initial testing often includes very broad strokes before you can narrow down precise areas of trouble for efficient solutions. Instead of trying to poke holes in their methodology, maybe we should give them the benefit of the doubt and assist them as much as possible. After all, this is a testing phase towards a solution of PVP performance. At least they are trying.
Benefit of the doubt? LOL. At what point in time has this company proven they are capable of fixing or balancing anything.
Sometimes I wonder if the people who post here actually play the game.
Lughlongarm wrote: »How do you Guys at ZOS expect reliable test results from the AOE changes when the majority of class skills will be affected by the current ruleset?
This is only from magica perspective not counting ultimates:
bolded = burst defense mechanic affected
italic= class spammable affected
striked = 50% or more of offensive toolkit affected
Necromancer: 13 out of 15 class skills affected
Templar: 11 out of 15 class skills affected
Sorcerer: 10 out of 15 class skills affected
Dragonknight: 8 out of 15 class skills affected
Warden: 8 out of 15 class skills affected
Nightblade: 4 out of 15 class skills affected
Restoration staff: 5 out of 5 skills affected.
Destruction staff: 2 ouf of 5 skills affected.
Imo any class that is bolded will be flatout unplayable as their main defense skill(s) gets partly disabled - which can´t be substituted for in any way as EVERY restoration staff skill will also match aoe criteria.
Then you´re left with DK and NB - of which one still is impaired offensively quite a bit depending on skill choices.
In the end you´re left with one class being remotely playable. How to you expect a test with reliable results when 5 out of 6 magica classes flatout won´t work and most likely people will not play as a result?
They probably expect players to adjust for the sake of testing. As a Warden main I can think about ways to be viable even with the restrictions. Not sure I will invest time in getting the gear needed though.
But thats bring question of testing result again. Obviously people will try to slot single target skills but then what results test suppose to show when those who use aoe will gut themselves and stop use it - obviously perfomance increase but only for reason that people will stop even trying to use aoe, not coz treatment improved aoe.
Kittytravel wrote: »How do you Guys at ZOS expect reliable test results from the AOE changes when the majority of class skills will be affected by the current ruleset?
This is only from magica perspective not counting ultimates:
bolded = burst defense mechanic affected
italic= class spammable affected
striked = 50% or more of offensive toolkit affected
Necromancer: 13 out of 15 class skills affected
Templar: 11 out of 15 class skills affected
Sorcerer: 10 out of 15 class skills affected
Dragonknight: 8 out of 15 class skills affected
Warden: 8 out of 15 class skills affected
Nightblade: 4 out of 15 class skills affected
Restoration staff: 5 out of 5 skills affected.
Destruction staff: 2 ouf of 5 skills affected.
Imo any class that is bolded will be flatout unplayable as their main defense skill(s) gets partly disabled - which can´t be substituted for in any way as EVERY restoration staff skill will also match aoe criteria.
Then you´re left with DK and NB - of which one still is impaired offensively quite a bit depending on skill choices.
In the end you´re left with one class being remotely playable. How to you expect a test with reliable results when 5 out of 6 magica classes flatout won´t work and most likely people will not play as a result?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/539584/i-tested-many-abilities-on-the-pts-to-see-what-they-restricted-here-are-my-results/p1
Possibly read this and then edit your post as not all morphs of every ability react the same to the changes... You put 4 out of 15 for NB but in reality more and less is affected for example Strife isn't affected nor is Swallow Soul while Funnel Health is affected.
That post has (almost) everything tested so there isn't a reason you should utilize it to prove your point with morphs considered and not just base abilities as it's disingenuous. Everyone knows morphs exist and that not all morphs obey the base abilities rules.
I think people are jumping to conclusions way to much.
This aoe change seems temporary and extreme to see if it effects performance.
Similar to turning off the ac in a car on a very hot day, to see if the engine still sounds labored. It’s not sustainable, but it helps pinpoint where the problem is.
This appears to be an experiment to see if the server issues are from aoes. If that is the issue, then they will go from there. If not, then there is nothing to worry about.
Let them see if this is the cause of lag, then debate what the solution should be.
I agree totally. I have been designing and testing software for 20+ years. Initial testing often includes very broad strokes before you can narrow down precise areas of trouble for efficient solutions. Instead of trying to poke holes in their methodology, maybe we should give them the benefit of the doubt and assist them as much as possible. After all, this is a testing phase towards a solution of PVP performance. At least they are trying.
OtarTheMad wrote: »I didn't read everyone's response but I am going to assume that these tests will give ZOS data that tells them what AOE abilities are used the most and which ones affect the server the most.
So, I don't think, when all this is over, that every AOE will be affected. The only ones affected will be the ones that have the biggest impact on server performance. This might make it hard for the changes not to affect PVE but we simply don't know what ZOS has in mind. They could add those abilities to Battle Spirit with a set of rules attached who knows.
This makes the most sense to me regardless of which test they like as a solution because not every AOE has a big impact on the server and changing just those that do will have a minimal impact on PVE/the combat system we love but a huge effect on PVP servers.
OtarTheMad wrote: »I didn't read everyone's response but I am going to assume that these tests will give ZOS data that tells them what AOE abilities are used the most and which ones affect the server the most.
So, I don't think, when all this is over, that every AOE will be affected. The only ones affected will be the ones that have the biggest impact on server performance. This might make it hard for the changes not to affect PVE but we simply don't know what ZOS has in mind. They could add those abilities to Battle Spirit with a set of rules attached who knows.
This makes the most sense to me regardless of which test they like as a solution because not every AOE has a big impact on the server and changing just those that do will have a minimal impact on PVE/the combat system we love but a huge effect on PVP servers.
How does a change, that heavily impacts how and which skills are used, allow ZOS to gather data on what causes the biggest impact on sever performance under regular conditions? It doesn't.
How does a change, that heavily impacts how and which skills are used, allow ZOS to gather data on what causes the biggest impact on sever performance under regular conditions? It doesn't.
OtarTheMad wrote: »OtarTheMad wrote: »I didn't read everyone's response but I am going to assume that these tests will give ZOS data that tells them what AOE abilities are used the most and which ones affect the server the most.
So, I don't think, when all this is over, that every AOE will be affected. The only ones affected will be the ones that have the biggest impact on server performance. This might make it hard for the changes not to affect PVE but we simply don't know what ZOS has in mind. They could add those abilities to Battle Spirit with a set of rules attached who knows.
This makes the most sense to me regardless of which test they like as a solution because not every AOE has a big impact on the server and changing just those that do will have a minimal impact on PVE/the combat system we love but a huge effect on PVP servers.
How does a change, that heavily impacts how and which skills are used, allow ZOS to gather data on what causes the biggest impact on sever performance under regular conditions? It doesn't.
Because even though players and ball groups may adjust it doesn't mean they will stop using AOE's entirely. So while it may not be regular conditions the abilities that negatively impact the server will still be noticed in the data, I am guessing.
For example, if the alliance war ability Purge puts some stress on the server, higher than some other abilities, during this test then one can only guess how high of an impact it would have during normal conditions.
OtarTheMad wrote: »OtarTheMad wrote: »I didn't read everyone's response but I am going to assume that these tests will give ZOS data that tells them what AOE abilities are used the most and which ones affect the server the most.
So, I don't think, when all this is over, that every AOE will be affected. The only ones affected will be the ones that have the biggest impact on server performance. This might make it hard for the changes not to affect PVE but we simply don't know what ZOS has in mind. They could add those abilities to Battle Spirit with a set of rules attached who knows.
This makes the most sense to me regardless of which test they like as a solution because not every AOE has a big impact on the server and changing just those that do will have a minimal impact on PVE/the combat system we love but a huge effect on PVP servers.
How does a change, that heavily impacts how and which skills are used, allow ZOS to gather data on what causes the biggest impact on sever performance under regular conditions? It doesn't.
Because even though players and ball groups may adjust it doesn't mean they will stop using AOE's entirely. So while it may not be regular conditions the abilities that negatively impact the server will still be noticed in the data, I am guessing.
For example, if the alliance war ability Purge puts some stress on the server, higher than some other abilities, during this test then one can only guess how high of an impact it would have during normal conditions.
But if they can measure how much strain a skill puts on the server during those tests, what is the purpose of those tests? Just look at the main offenders now and think about ways to adjust those - on a case by case basis. Instead of random across the board changes that aren't going to result in conclusive test results, no matter what.
OtarTheMad wrote: »OtarTheMad wrote: »I didn't read everyone's response but I am going to assume that these tests will give ZOS data that tells them what AOE abilities are used the most and which ones affect the server the most.
So, I don't think, when all this is over, that every AOE will be affected. The only ones affected will be the ones that have the biggest impact on server performance. This might make it hard for the changes not to affect PVE but we simply don't know what ZOS has in mind. They could add those abilities to Battle Spirit with a set of rules attached who knows.
This makes the most sense to me regardless of which test they like as a solution because not every AOE has a big impact on the server and changing just those that do will have a minimal impact on PVE/the combat system we love but a huge effect on PVP servers.
How does a change, that heavily impacts how and which skills are used, allow ZOS to gather data on what causes the biggest impact on sever performance under regular conditions? It doesn't.
Because even though players and ball groups may adjust it doesn't mean they will stop using AOE's entirely. So while it may not be regular conditions the abilities that negatively impact the server will still be noticed in the data, I am guessing.
For example, if the alliance war ability Purge puts some stress on the server, higher than some other abilities, during this test then one can only guess how high of an impact it would have during normal conditions.
But if they can measure how much strain a skill puts on the server during those tests, what is the purpose of those tests? Just look at the main offenders now and think about ways to adjust those - on a case by case basis. Instead of random across the board changes that aren't going to result in conclusive test results, no matter what.
OtarTheMad wrote: »OtarTheMad wrote: »OtarTheMad wrote: »I didn't read everyone's response but I am going to assume that these tests will give ZOS data that tells them what AOE abilities are used the most and which ones affect the server the most.
So, I don't think, when all this is over, that every AOE will be affected. The only ones affected will be the ones that have the biggest impact on server performance. This might make it hard for the changes not to affect PVE but we simply don't know what ZOS has in mind. They could add those abilities to Battle Spirit with a set of rules attached who knows.
This makes the most sense to me regardless of which test they like as a solution because not every AOE has a big impact on the server and changing just those that do will have a minimal impact on PVE/the combat system we love but a huge effect on PVP servers.
How does a change, that heavily impacts how and which skills are used, allow ZOS to gather data on what causes the biggest impact on sever performance under regular conditions? It doesn't.
Because even though players and ball groups may adjust it doesn't mean they will stop using AOE's entirely. So while it may not be regular conditions the abilities that negatively impact the server will still be noticed in the data, I am guessing.
For example, if the alliance war ability Purge puts some stress on the server, higher than some other abilities, during this test then one can only guess how high of an impact it would have during normal conditions.
But if they can measure how much strain a skill puts on the server during those tests, what is the purpose of those tests? Just look at the main offenders now and think about ways to adjust those - on a case by case basis. Instead of random across the board changes that aren't going to result in conclusive test results, no matter what.
The tests will confirm a hypothesis they have but it also might show them data that they are missing. They don't want to just make changes and then find out that there was something else causing lag, they've tried that and it doesn't work. So they are asking for our help with some tests and maybe together we can fix Cyrodiil and make it at least a little less unplayable.
Slapping a cooldown on half of the abilities in the game doesn't confirm the hypothesis that AOE spam causes lag. The only thing it confirms is that people casting less abilities in general reduces lag. But you don't exactly need a test to know that.
Slapping a cooldown on all those abilities to check if purge spam causes lag is the equivalent of removing the tyres from ur car and say the car has an engine malfunction so that's why it won't move. It makes no sense.
The only good outcome of these tests is too see how screwed up the servers are. Cause if it still lags with people having half of their abilities on a 3 second cooldown then it will probably be a good time for ZOS to just get rid of Cyrodiil and open world pvp since it will be beyond saving.
I´m asking how they expect reliable test results when classes get partly or almost entirely disabled to the point where ppl won´t be able to play.
ZOS doesn´t have a history of making needed changes in a timely fashion
I´m asking how they expect reliable test results when classes get partly or almost entirely disabled to the point where ppl won´t be able to play.
First, only magicka classes are disabled, which (arguably) already form a minority in PvP. Some people will leave, while some new will come for double AP. Some (like me) will respec several characters into stam for the event. I can bet 100k gold on PC NA with you that during peak hours CP Cyrodiil will be pop-locked, which is more than sufficient to get acceptable testing results population-wise. Deal?ZOS doesn´t have a history of making needed changes in a timely fashion
They don't have a history of making tests on live servers either, however we have this discussion today. There's a first time for everything.
OtarTheMad wrote: »I didn't read everyone's response but I am going to assume that these tests will give ZOS data that tells them what AOE abilities are used the most and which ones affect the server the most.
So, I don't think, when all this is over, that every AOE will be affected. The only ones affected will be the ones that have the biggest impact on server performance. This might make it hard for the changes not to affect PVE but we simply don't know what ZOS has in mind. They could add those abilities to Battle Spirit with a set of rules attached who knows.
This makes the most sense to me regardless of which test they like as a solution because not every AOE has a big impact on the server and changing just those that do will have a minimal impact on PVE/the combat system we love but a huge effect on PVP servers.
I´m asking how they expect reliable test results when classes get partly or almost entirely disabled to the point where ppl won´t be able to play.
First, only magicka classes are disabled, which (arguably) already form a minority in PvP. Some people will leave, while some new will come for double AP. Some (like me) will respec several characters into stam for the event. I can bet 100k gold on PC NA with you that during peak hours CP Cyrodiil will be pop-locked, which is more than sufficient to get acceptable testing results population-wise. Deal?ZOS doesn´t have a history of making needed changes in a timely fashion
They don't have a history of making tests on live servers either, however we have this discussion today. There's a first time for everything.
no AOE's used and the servers run perfectly then guess what the AOE's are for sure going to get changed and more than likely to the effect everyone is afraid of.
I´m asking how they expect reliable test results when classes get partly or almost entirely disabled to the point where ppl won´t be able to play.
First, only magicka classes are disabled, which (arguably) already form a minority in PvP. Some people will leave, while some new will come for double AP. Some (like me) will respec several characters into stam for the event. I can bet 100k gold on PC NA with you that during peak hours CP Cyrodiil will be pop-locked, which is more than sufficient to get acceptable testing results population-wise. Deal?ZOS doesn´t have a history of making needed changes in a timely fashion
They don't have a history of making tests on live servers either, however we have this discussion today. There's a first time for everything.
Yeah but this is exactly the point tho. You said you will respec to stam as probably a lot of people will do cause the tests will render some classes unplayable. Well thats exactly why u will get flawed results.