JayKwellen wrote: »xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »@ZOS_Gilliam Please improve magBlades before the PTS cycle ends, magBlades have been in a bad spot in PvP but with the Greymoor changes they got worse and still nothing in 6.1.2. I know you care about Nightblades, so do we!
Not only did they not directly address magblades, they specifically didn't give an answer to whether grim focus was meant to be excluded from the new crit damage bonus.
So not only do they not address any of the classes main problems, but they also find a way to not even mention, not even one single sentence, a potentially new problem they created.
I think that should tell you all you need to know about how ZOS feels about bringing magblades up to par with everyone else.
the1andonlyskwex wrote: »JayKwellen wrote: »xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »@ZOS_Gilliam Please improve magBlades before the PTS cycle ends, magBlades have been in a bad spot in PvP but with the Greymoor changes they got worse and still nothing in 6.1.2. I know you care about Nightblades, so do we!
Not only did they not directly address magblades, they specifically didn't give an answer to whether grim focus was meant to be excluded from the new crit damage bonus.
So not only do they not address any of the classes main problems, but they also find a way to not even mention, not even one single sentence, a potentially new problem they created.
I think that should tell you all you need to know about how ZOS feels about bringing magblades up to par with everyone else.
I don't really understand why people are so up in arms about the crit bonus affecting the proc.
1) It's only about a 6% buff to the actual damage, once you factor in the 50%-60% crit bonus people have from other sources.
2) It only applies when the proc crits, so it has an even smaller impact on DPS (from that one skill, that only procs once every 5-6 seconds).
3) If it did affect the proc, ZOS would probably reduce the base proc damage to account for it.
If ZOS's buffs class skills, players might end up using them instead of relying on all those shiny procs they just added/buffed. Obviously we can't have that. Just think about all the lag the skill spam creates. Better snatch some Caluurion pieces, best combined with one or two other procs of your choice and enjoy watching your opponents die while waiting out skill cooldowns.
If ZOS's buffs class skills, players might end up using them instead of relying on all those shiny procs they just added/buffed. Obviously we can't have that. Just think about all the lag the skill spam creates. Better snatch some Caluurion pieces, best combined with one or two other procs of your choice and enjoy watching your opponents die while waiting out skill cooldowns.
This really seems to be their "solution" to lag.
... and still magblade is the worst/2nd worst PvP class of all of them, and they still nerf our best skills covering it with some meaningless buffs. Simply awesome.
Vermintide wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »Magblade is more of a range class
I disagree. Bursting an enemy with any reliability requires melee range.
Alchimiste1 wrote: »Vermintide wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »Magblade is more of a range class
I disagree. Bursting an enemy with any reliability requires melee range.
thats why I said mostly a range class, the only time you go in close is to incap, and thats it. for most of the fight you wont be standing in front of dk/templar or whatever and if you do you're going to die
xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »Vermintide wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »Magblade is more of a range class
I disagree. Bursting an enemy with any reliability requires melee range.
thats why I said mostly a range class, the only time you go in close is to incap, and thats it. for most of the fight you wont be standing in front of dk/templar or whatever and if you do you're going to die
Spectral Bow heals you only if youre in 7m range of the target, it also has better chance of hitting since the travel speed is very slow and easily dodgable from range. Same goes for Swallow Soul due to its travel time its better to use it close range. Magblade is pretty much a melee class.
Alchimiste1 wrote: »Bow heal is irrelevant, lotus is a very telegraphed skill, and again you should only use once you have incap ready anyways not spam. if you are using concealed weapon you are going for a melee build by choice, sap essence ? is that even used outside of niche builds, the only morph of path you should use for pvp on magblade is the healing morph which means range is again irrelevant. All in all kite until you have ult and a combo lined up or try to tank in melee range and inevitable die.
Alchimiste1 wrote: »Bow heal is irrelevant, lotus is a very telegraphed skill, and again you should only use once you have incap ready anyways not spam. if you are using concealed weapon you are going for a melee build by choice, sap essence ? is that even used outside of niche builds, the only morph of path you should use for pvp on magblade is the healing morph which means range is again irrelevant. All in all kite until you have ult and a combo lined up or try to tank in melee range and inevitable die.
I'm not sure what your point is here. Even if we ignore the fact that your opinion on what is relevant or irrelevant is purely subjective, nothing you've said invalidates my point that most of the magblade toolkit is built around being in or around melee distance.
If 3/4 of the offensive skills available to you (including both of your ultimates and your only stuns) are either gimped or completely useless at range then you're not "mostly a range class" — at best you're a hybrid melee/ranged class. (Unless you choose to use no class skills at all.)
I agree with much of what you have to say re: the direction the combat team should take the class, but I strongly disagree with your characterization of the class itself.
ParaViking wrote: »I long for the days when Shadow Cloak's morphs purged negative effects. I miss a refreshing path that not only heal, but caused some damage... I can remember the days when Assassin’s Will would proc off 3 light attacks. I miss the Minor Berserk passive from Siphoning Attacks...
It use to be so much fun... Bring all the good stuff back to the class.
the1andonlyskwex wrote: »JayKwellen wrote: »xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »@ZOS_Gilliam Please improve magBlades before the PTS cycle ends, magBlades have been in a bad spot in PvP but with the Greymoor changes they got worse and still nothing in 6.1.2. I know you care about Nightblades, so do we!
Not only did they not directly address magblades, they specifically didn't give an answer to whether grim focus was meant to be excluded from the new crit damage bonus.
So not only do they not address any of the classes main problems, but they also find a way to not even mention, not even one single sentence, a potentially new problem they created.
I think that should tell you all you need to know about how ZOS feels about bringing magblades up to par with everyone else.
I don't really understand why people are so up in arms about the crit bonus affecting the proc.
1) It's only about a 6% buff to the actual damage, once you factor in the 50%-60% crit bonus people have from other sources.
2) It only applies when the proc crits, so it has an even smaller impact on DPS (from that one skill, that only procs once every 5-6 seconds).
3) If it did affect the proc, ZOS would probably reduce the base proc damage to account for it.
universal_wrath wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »JayKwellen wrote: »xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »@ZOS_Gilliam Please improve magBlades before the PTS cycle ends, magBlades have been in a bad spot in PvP but with the Greymoor changes they got worse and still nothing in 6.1.2. I know you care about Nightblades, so do we!
Not only did they not directly address magblades, they specifically didn't give an answer to whether grim focus was meant to be excluded from the new crit damage bonus.
So not only do they not address any of the classes main problems, but they also find a way to not even mention, not even one single sentence, a potentially new problem they created.
I think that should tell you all you need to know about how ZOS feels about bringing magblades up to par with everyone else.
I don't really understand why people are so up in arms about the crit bonus affecting the proc.
1) It's only about a 6% buff to the actual damage, once you factor in the 50%-60% crit bonus people have from other sources.
2) It only applies when the proc crits, so it has an even smaller impact on DPS (from that one skill, that only procs once every 5-6 seconds).
3) If it did affect the proc, ZOS would probably reduce the base proc damage to account for it.
it might not seem much in PvP, bit it is great for PvE for sure. Beside, it not only increase critical damage, it increase critical healing. It is nice because it gives options for people to use unpopular builds like critical based builds.
Alchimiste1 wrote: »Bow heal is irrelevant, lotus is a very telegraphed skill, and again you should only use once you have incap ready anyways not spam. if you are using concealed weapon you are going for a melee build by choice, sap essence ? is that even used outside of niche builds, the only morph of path you should use for pvp on magblade is the healing morph which means range is again irrelevant. All in all kite until you have ult and a combo lined up or try to tank in melee range and inevitable die.
I'm not sure what your point is here. Even if we ignore the fact that your opinion on what is relevant or irrelevant is purely subjective, nothing you've said invalidates my point that most of the magblade toolkit is built around being in or around melee distance.
If 3/4 of the offensive skills available to you (including both of your ultimates and your only stuns) are either gimped or completely useless at range then you're not "mostly a range class" — at best you're a hybrid melee/ranged class. (Unless you choose to use no class skills at all.)
I agree with much of what you have to say re: the direction the combat team should take the class, but I strongly disagree with your characterization of the class itself.
I listed the skills I was referring to this post.universal_wrath wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »Bow heal is irrelevant, lotus is a very telegraphed skill, and again you should only use once you have incap ready anyways not spam. if you are using concealed weapon you are going for a melee build by choice, sap essence ? is that even used outside of niche builds, the only morph of path you should use for pvp on magblade is the healing morph which means range is again irrelevant. All in all kite until you have ult and a combo lined up or try to tank in melee range and inevitable die.
I'm not sure what your point is here. Even if we ignore the fact that your opinion on what is relevant or irrelevant is purely subjective, nothing you've said invalidates my point that most of the magblade toolkit is built around being in or around melee distance.
If 3/4 of the offensive skills available to you (including both of your ultimates and your only stuns) are either gimped or completely useless at range then you're not "mostly a range class" — at best you're a hybrid melee/ranged class. (Unless you choose to use no class skills at all.)
I agree with much of what you have to say re: the direction the combat team should take the class, but I strongly disagree with your characterization of the class itself.
I should note that if you are talking about magicka nightblade 2/4 of their offensive skills are range and 1/4 . I count 7 offensive range skills and 4 offensive melee skill and 3 melee ultimates. It is a hybrid as you have said, but you can go full range or full melee uf you want. Each have their strenght and weaknesses.
I listed the skills I was referring to this post.universal_wrath wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »Bow heal is irrelevant, lotus is a very telegraphed skill, and again you should only use once you have incap ready anyways not spam. if you are using concealed weapon you are going for a melee build by choice, sap essence ? is that even used outside of niche builds, the only morph of path you should use for pvp on magblade is the healing morph which means range is again irrelevant. All in all kite until you have ult and a combo lined up or try to tank in melee range and inevitable die.
I'm not sure what your point is here. Even if we ignore the fact that your opinion on what is relevant or irrelevant is purely subjective, nothing you've said invalidates my point that most of the magblade toolkit is built around being in or around melee distance.
If 3/4 of the offensive skills available to you (including both of your ultimates and your only stuns) are either gimped or completely useless at range then you're not "mostly a range class" — at best you're a hybrid melee/ranged class. (Unless you choose to use no class skills at all.)
I agree with much of what you have to say re: the direction the combat team should take the class, but I strongly disagree with your characterization of the class itself.
I should note that if you are talking about magicka nightblade 2/4 of their offensive skills are range and 1/4 . I count 7 offensive range skills and 4 offensive melee skill and 3 melee ultimates. It is a hybrid as you have said, but you can go full range or full melee uf you want. Each have their strenght and weaknesses.
In any case, I'm not sure I follow your logic. Here is the way I see it:
Magblade offensive abilities: (11)
Soul Harvest
Impale
Lotus Fan
Merciless Resolve
Veil of Blades
Concealed Weapon
Twisting Path
Soul Tether
Swallow Soul
Cripple
Sap Essence
Abilities that require melee distance to take full advantage of: (8)
Soul Harvest
Lotus Fan
Merciless Resolve
Veil of Blades
Concealed Weapon
Twisting Path
Soul Tether
Sap Essence
Abilities that are fully ranged: (3)
Impale
Swallow Soul
Cripple
I included Aspect of Terror in my original post (which is how I got 3/4) because I wasn't talking specifically about offensive abilities at that point. Although the argument can be made that it is an offensive ability, I won't include it here for the sake of consistency. So let's just say that my count is now 8/11.
The only way I can see getting to 7 ranged offensive abilities is if I count both morphs of Cripple while also including both morphs of Mark Target. Beginning with the latter, I wasn't really classifying debuffs as "offensive abilities," although I do see how the argument could be made that they are. Perhaps I should have said damaging abilities? In any case, that is why I said I'll drop Aspect of Terror for consistency. As far as Cripple, it's one skill with two morphs. The way I see it, since you'll never have both Debilitate and Crippling Grasp on your bar at the same time, it doesn't make sense to count them as separate abilities.
The long and the short of it is this: at any given point in time, you can only have a maximum of 3 fully ranged offensive class abilities on your bar at any given point in time: Impale, Swallow Soul, and Cripple, (4 if you count Mark) while you can have 8 abilities that require melee distance to take full advantage of (9 if you include Aspect of Terror.) No matter how you look at it, if a player wants to take full advantage of the magblade toolkit, most people are going to have to be in melee range relatively frequently.
I hope that explains where I am coming from.