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Magicka Nightblades / Dark Cloak

  • Red_Feather
    Red_Feather
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    It should purge
  • Mayrael
    Mayrael
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    It should purge

    I guess you talk about cloak. As much as I would love it (I remember how fun cloak was to use back then) I'm afraid we shouldn't push for this change - it would make NBs extremly strong when we take into consideration proc set changes ZOS tries to implement... and in the end it could lead to another knee jerk reaction causing NBs to get nerfed even more.
    I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.

    Mael Nightshadow - that's all you need to know.
  • xI_The_Owl_Ix
    xI_The_Owl_Ix
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    Mayrael wrote: »
    It should purge

    I guess you talk about cloak. As much as I would love it (I remember how fun cloak was to use back then) I'm afraid we shouldn't push for this change - it would make NBs extremly strong when we take into consideration proc set changes ZOS tries to implement... and in the end it could lead to another knee jerk reaction causing NBs to get nerfed even more.

    Dark Cloak could easily get a purge machanic implemented without being "OP". Right now Dark Cloak heals your usual 25-27k DD for 800-900 HoT/s. Meanwhile you can have several DoTs on you and your Dark Cloak wont be able to outheal the DoTs. I was in a fight with a DK once and had 3,5k DoTs on me. There was nothing I could do with Dark Cloak, meanwhile Shadowy Disguise completly ignores DoTs and is therefore the better skill to use, especially on a high mobility spec like StamNB.

    For Dark Cloak to be used over Shadoey it would have to undergo several buffs/changes.
  • Mayrael
    Mayrael
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    Mayrael wrote: »
    It should purge

    I guess you talk about cloak. As much as I would love it (I remember how fun cloak was to use back then) I'm afraid we shouldn't push for this change - it would make NBs extremly strong when we take into consideration proc set changes ZOS tries to implement... and in the end it could lead to another knee jerk reaction causing NBs to get nerfed even more.

    Dark Cloak could easily get a purge machanic implemented without being "OP". Right now Dark Cloak heals your usual 25-27k DD for 800-900 HoT/s. Meanwhile you can have several DoTs on you and your Dark Cloak wont be able to outheal the DoTs. I was in a fight with a DK once and had 3,5k DoTs on me. There was nothing I could do with Dark Cloak, meanwhile Shadowy Disguise completly ignores DoTs and is therefore the better skill to use, especially on a high mobility spec like StamNB.

    For Dark Cloak to be used over Shadoey it would have to undergo several buffs/changes.

    Actually that could work ;) We could limit number of effects to 5 just like with the templars ritual so nobody would scream STANDARDS, OP! And this could make Dark Cloak really awesome alternative for Shadowy Disguise :)
    I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.

    Mael Nightshadow - that's all you need to know.
  • ParaViking
    ParaViking
    Soul Shriven
    I long for the days when Shadow Cloak's morphs purged negative effects. I miss a refreshing path that not only heal, but caused some damage... I can remember the days when Assassin’s Will would proc off 3 light attacks. I miss the Minor Berserk passive from Siphoning Attacks...

    It use to be so much fun... Bring all the good stuff back to the class.
  • JinxxND
    JinxxND
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    Idk about a purge as that would further homogenize the class but it could get minor vitality while it's active and increase the shadow barrier passive by 2 seconds that way if you can have your major resolve up for the entire ability instead of it dropping before the dark cloak ends
    PC NA - 'Jinxx - Nightblade - DC Grand Overlord
  • exeeter702
    exeeter702
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    JinxxND wrote: »
    Idk about a purge as that would further homogenize the class but it could get minor vitality while it's active and increase the shadow barrier passive by 2 seconds that way if you can have your major resolve up for the entire ability instead of it dropping before the dark cloak ends

    What do you mean in would homogenize the class? Wtf...

    Nbs have had purge on cloak in the past. What does having the ability to defend against debuffs have anything to do with homogenization? No one is asking for NBs to have cleansing ritual/purge from the support skill line. They were asking for one of their cloak morphs to do what it once did once upon a time.
    Edited by exeeter702 on July 25, 2020 3:54PM
  • Zekka
    Zekka
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    Dark Cloak could do with a magicka/spell damage scaling on top of the health scaling like Coagulating Blood so magblades can have an additional HoT without needing 40k hp for it to be worth running.
  • xI_The_Owl_Ix
    xI_The_Owl_Ix
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    Zekka wrote: »
    Dark Cloak could do with a magicka/spell damage scaling on top of the health scaling like Coagulating Blood so magblades can have an additional HoT without needing 40k hp for it to be worth running.

    It should scale of "your highest offensive stat as well as max health" - so stamblades could also go non invis and finally get a reliable class heal.
  • Crash427
    Crash427
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    If dark cloak gave a 20 second armor buff it'd open up more options.
  • SilverKatz
    SilverKatz
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    With the recent changes to healing in PvP magBlades took a big hit to their survivabilty. While their offensive burst options are lacking as well. The burst combo is just too unreliable especially with the current Cyro lag.
    1. EVERY CLASS got bit hit on survivablity .
    2. Grim Focus is a huge buffed . it gives ton of dmg , healing , Dmg buff, Heal buff. 4 function from 1 skill .
    Is there any non-ulti skill has 4 different functions?
    Dont be too greedy.
    Edited by SilverKatz on July 26, 2020 11:07AM
  • killingspreeb16_ESO
    killingspreeb16_ESO
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    SilverKatz wrote: »
    With the recent changes to healing in PvP magBlades took a big hit to their survivabilty. While their offensive burst options are lacking as well. The burst combo is just too unreliable especially with the current Cyro lag.
    1. EVERY CLASS got bit hit on survivablity .
    2. Grim Focus is a huge buffed . it gives ton of dmg , healing , Dmg buff, Heal buff. 4 function from 1 skill .
    Is there any non-ulti skill has 4 different functions?
    Dont be too greedy.

    It also require 5 LA and the bonus is lost when you fire the bow proc.
    Also is one of the easiest skill to dodge.

    But let's forget about all that it dosen't help your argument right?

    Not to mention many NB pref the current live version of 10% dmg reduction.





  • Alchimiste1
    Alchimiste1
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    The masters assassins passives is pretty meaningless for pvp. Magblade is more of a range class so you won’t really hit anyone’s flank most of the time. I’m not sure if everyone knows but the changes to crit damage doesn’t affect the bow proc because once you cast it you lose the stacks and because the ability has travel time it doesn’t benefit from the extra 10% crit damage. I’m pretty sure zos thinks of of only stamblade when they do nb changes

    How about some minor vitality back on swallow soul, or some expedition back on cripple. Malevolent offering needs a rework because no one uses that. I want to say remove cast time on ults but I doubt they even will
  • Kadoin
    Kadoin
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    Mayrael wrote: »
    Mayrael wrote: »
    It should purge

    I guess you talk about cloak. As much as I would love it (I remember how fun cloak was to use back then) I'm afraid we shouldn't push for this change - it would make NBs extremly strong when we take into consideration proc set changes ZOS tries to implement... and in the end it could lead to another knee jerk reaction causing NBs to get nerfed even more.

    Dark Cloak could easily get a purge machanic implemented without being "OP". Right now Dark Cloak heals your usual 25-27k DD for 800-900 HoT/s. Meanwhile you can have several DoTs on you and your Dark Cloak wont be able to outheal the DoTs. I was in a fight with a DK once and had 3,5k DoTs on me. There was nothing I could do with Dark Cloak, meanwhile Shadowy Disguise completly ignores DoTs and is therefore the better skill to use, especially on a high mobility spec like StamNB.

    For Dark Cloak to be used over Shadoey it would have to undergo several buffs/changes.

    Actually that could work ;) We could limit number of effects to 5 just like with the templars ritual so nobody would scream STANDARDS, OP! And this could make Dark Cloak really awesome alternative for Shadowy Disguise :)

    I would because then it would overshadow templar's ritual in strength. Yeah, no.
  • JinxxND
    JinxxND
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    Dark cloak I think post nb being tanks with mitigation this skill is def gonna need to be looked at for PvP. PvE it has been fine for tanks but in PvP with the new 60% healing nerf and loss of bow mitigation it should def be looked at whether increasing it's healing and adding something like minor vitality while active to help with the poor healing on nb going the brawler route. Adding a purge to this skill would just give another class access to purge and further homogenize the game. The argument of the skill used to have purge is like saying nb used to have minor berserk and a lot stronger skills before the skill audit ruined the class for where the game is now and looks to be heading I would just avoid further homogenization. Also a purge with the upcoming proc dot meta just would advocate for this skill getting spammed when it acts as an armor buff and HoT as is which is a fire and forget ability
    PC NA - 'Jinxx - Nightblade - DC Grand Overlord
  • SilverKatz
    SilverKatz
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    It also require 5 LA and the bonus is lost when you fire the bow proc.
    Also is one of the easiest skill to dodge.

    But let's forget about all that it dosen't help your argument right?

    Not to mention many NB pref the current live version of 10% dmg reduction.



    Yes yes it is . Is it the only skill can be dodge or block ? what is the point of sayin it can be dodged then ?
    But do u happen to know any other skills of other classes to match the same potency after 5 LA and hit landed ? I dont think so.
    Edited by SilverKatz on July 27, 2020 4:35AM
  • Sahidom
    Sahidom
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    Zekka wrote: »
    Dark Cloak could do with a magicka/spell damage scaling on top of the health scaling like Coagulating Blood so magblades can have an additional HoT without needing 40k hp for it to be worth running.

    It should scale of "your highest offensive stat as well as max health" - so stamblades could also go non invis and finally get a reliable class heal.

    I dont agree that it should mirror dragon blood or its morphs; instead, offer NB an fast cast version of Dark Pack that restores highest offense pool resources with a direct heal.
    Edited by Sahidom on July 27, 2020 5:37AM
  • Alchimiste1
    Alchimiste1
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    SilverKatz wrote: »

    It also require 5 LA and the bonus is lost when you fire the bow proc.
    Also is one of the easiest skill to dodge.

    But let's forget about all that it dosen't help your argument right?

    Not to mention many NB pref the current live version of 10% dmg reduction.



    Yes yes it is . Is it the only skill can be dodge or block ? what is the point of sayin it can be dodged then ?
    But do u happen to know any other skills of other classes to match the same potency after 5 LA and hit landed ? I dont think so.


    I can name one skill that does more , jabs. Aoe , hard hitting, major prophecy/savagery, minor protection, procs damage passive, can’t be dodged.


    That being said, many people bring up the fact that assassins will is dodge-able because it’s exceptionally easy to avoid it’s damage. Compare dodging things like surprise attack, whip, etc to it. Also it’s got a very loud audio que, that for whatever reason is much louder on the mag morph. Against a player that knows how to predict the burst it’s very hard to actually make good use of it. Magblade should be a burst class but in its current state in order for it to be effective you have to play it more like a pressure class changing the order and timing of your abilities to kill good players. Against newer players yes I can see why the burst would seem op.
  • Mayrael
    Mayrael
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    SilverKatz wrote: »

    It also require 5 LA and the bonus is lost when you fire the bow proc.
    Also is one of the easiest skill to dodge.

    But let's forget about all that it dosen't help your argument right?

    Not to mention many NB pref the current live version of 10% dmg reduction.



    Yes yes it is . Is it the only skill can be dodge or block ? what is the point of sayin it can be dodged then ?
    But do u happen to know any other skills of other classes to match the same potency after 5 LA and hit landed ? I dont think so.

    Stamnecro blast bones... Doesn't require anything just cast, can't be dodged, apply major defile, have chance to apply minor defile, is AoE, is 3 x cheaper, hits same as hard, is delayed allowing it to be lined up into burst combo.

    Wardens subterranean assault. No requirements just cast, AoE, hits almost as hard, is huge AoE, applies major fracture, is delayed allowing it to be lined up into burst combo.

    Sorc curse. Hits a bit weaker but is undodgeable and unblockable, has no requirements, hits 2 times, has small AoE, is delayed allowing it to be lined up into burst combo.

    Templar sweeps - deals a bit less damage but can be spammed, no requirements, is AoE, heals on hit, can proc burning light for even more damage, can't be dodged.

    DKs Molten Whip - it hits hard but lets say it is a bit behind all of mentioned above due to its requirments.
    I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.

    Mael Nightshadow - that's all you need to know.
  • Cinbri
    Cinbri
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    Mayrael wrote: »
    SilverKatz wrote: »

    It also require 5 LA and the bonus is lost when you fire the bow proc.
    Also is one of the easiest skill to dodge.

    But let's forget about all that it dosen't help your argument right?

    Not to mention many NB pref the current live version of 10% dmg reduction.



    Yes yes it is . Is it the only skill can be dodge or block ? what is the point of sayin it can be dodged then ?
    But do u happen to know any other skills of other classes to match the same potency after 5 LA and hit landed ? I dont think so.

    Stamnecro blast bones... Doesn't require anything just cast, can't be dodged, apply major defile, have chance to apply minor defile, is AoE, is 3 x cheaper, hits same as hard, is delayed allowing it to be lined up into burst combo.

    Wardens subterranean assault. No requirements just cast, AoE, hits almost as hard, is huge AoE, applies major fracture, is delayed allowing it to be lined up into burst combo.

    Sorc curse. Hits a bit weaker but is undodgeable and unblockable, has no requirements, hits 2 times, has small AoE, is delayed allowing it to be lined up into burst combo.

    Templar sweeps - deals a bit less damage but can be spammed, no requirements, is AoE, heals on hit, can proc burning light for even more damage, can't be dodged.

    DKs Molten Whip - it hits hard but lets say it is a bit behind all of mentioned above due to its requirments.

    If you compare burst skills then compare it with templar burst skill - Backlash, not spammable. But i guess you intentionally missed it coz uselesness of Backlash breaking agenda of "weak nb skill".
  • Mayrael
    Mayrael
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    Cinbri wrote: »
    Mayrael wrote: »
    SilverKatz wrote: »

    It also require 5 LA and the bonus is lost when you fire the bow proc.
    Also is one of the easiest skill to dodge.

    But let's forget about all that it dosen't help your argument right?

    Not to mention many NB pref the current live version of 10% dmg reduction.



    Yes yes it is . Is it the only skill can be dodge or block ? what is the point of sayin it can be dodged then ?
    But do u happen to know any other skills of other classes to match the same potency after 5 LA and hit landed ? I dont think so.

    Stamnecro blast bones... Doesn't require anything just cast, can't be dodged, apply major defile, have chance to apply minor defile, is AoE, is 3 x cheaper, hits same as hard, is delayed allowing it to be lined up into burst combo.

    Wardens subterranean assault. No requirements just cast, AoE, hits almost as hard, is huge AoE, applies major fracture, is delayed allowing it to be lined up into burst combo.

    Sorc curse. Hits a bit weaker but is undodgeable and unblockable, has no requirements, hits 2 times, has small AoE, is delayed allowing it to be lined up into burst combo.

    Templar sweeps - deals a bit less damage but can be spammed, no requirements, is AoE, heals on hit, can proc burning light for even more damage, can't be dodged.

    DKs Molten Whip - it hits hard but lets say it is a bit behind all of mentioned above due to its requirments.

    If you compare burst skills then compare it with templar burst skill - Backlash, not spammable. But i guess you intentionally missed it coz uselesness of Backlash breaking agenda of "weak nb skill".

    I compare skills by their potential not burst.
    I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.

    Mael Nightshadow - that's all you need to know.
  • Cinbri
    Cinbri
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    Mayrael wrote: »
    Cinbri wrote: »
    Mayrael wrote: »
    SilverKatz wrote: »

    It also require 5 LA and the bonus is lost when you fire the bow proc.
    Also is one of the easiest skill to dodge.

    But let's forget about all that it dosen't help your argument right?

    Not to mention many NB pref the current live version of 10% dmg reduction.



    Yes yes it is . Is it the only skill can be dodge or block ? what is the point of sayin it can be dodged then ?
    But do u happen to know any other skills of other classes to match the same potency after 5 LA and hit landed ? I dont think so.

    Stamnecro blast bones... Doesn't require anything just cast, can't be dodged, apply major defile, have chance to apply minor defile, is AoE, is 3 x cheaper, hits same as hard, is delayed allowing it to be lined up into burst combo.

    Wardens subterranean assault. No requirements just cast, AoE, hits almost as hard, is huge AoE, applies major fracture, is delayed allowing it to be lined up into burst combo.

    Sorc curse. Hits a bit weaker but is undodgeable and unblockable, has no requirements, hits 2 times, has small AoE, is delayed allowing it to be lined up into burst combo.

    Templar sweeps - deals a bit less damage but can be spammed, no requirements, is AoE, heals on hit, can proc burning light for even more damage, can't be dodged.

    DKs Molten Whip - it hits hard but lets say it is a bit behind all of mentioned above due to its requirments.

    If you compare burst skills then compare it with templar burst skill - Backlash, not spammable. But i guess you intentionally missed it coz uselesness of Backlash breaking agenda of "weak nb skill".

    I compare skills by their potential not burst.
    No, you compare burst skills by their potential answering about nb burst skill and then suddenly decide to exclude templar burst skill with its "potential" and replace it with spammable that have zero relation to topic.
    P.S.: but anyway i not interested in those whiny threads so ignore me, i out anyway.
    Edited by Cinbri on July 27, 2020 8:02AM
  • Mayrael
    Mayrael
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    ✭✭✭✭
    Cinbri wrote: »
    Mayrael wrote: »
    Cinbri wrote: »
    Mayrael wrote: »
    SilverKatz wrote: »

    It also require 5 LA and the bonus is lost when you fire the bow proc.
    Also is one of the easiest skill to dodge.

    But let's forget about all that it dosen't help your argument right?

    Not to mention many NB pref the current live version of 10% dmg reduction.



    Yes yes it is . Is it the only skill can be dodge or block ? what is the point of sayin it can be dodged then ?
    But do u happen to know any other skills of other classes to match the same potency after 5 LA and hit landed ? I dont think so.

    Stamnecro blast bones... Doesn't require anything just cast, can't be dodged, apply major defile, have chance to apply minor defile, is AoE, is 3 x cheaper, hits same as hard, is delayed allowing it to be lined up into burst combo.

    Wardens subterranean assault. No requirements just cast, AoE, hits almost as hard, is huge AoE, applies major fracture, is delayed allowing it to be lined up into burst combo.

    Sorc curse. Hits a bit weaker but is undodgeable and unblockable, has no requirements, hits 2 times, has small AoE, is delayed allowing it to be lined up into burst combo.

    Templar sweeps - deals a bit less damage but can be spammed, no requirements, is AoE, heals on hit, can proc burning light for even more damage, can't be dodged.

    DKs Molten Whip - it hits hard but lets say it is a bit behind all of mentioned above due to its requirments.

    If you compare burst skills then compare it with templar burst skill - Backlash, not spammable. But i guess you intentionally missed it coz uselesness of Backlash breaking agenda of "weak nb skill".

    I compare skills by their potential not burst.
    No, you compare burst skills by their potential answering about nb burst skill and then suddenly decide to exclude templar burst skill with its "potential" and replace it with spammable that have zero relation to topic.
    P.S.: but anyway i not interested in those whiny threads so ignore me, i out anyway.

    Where did I wrote I will compare skills by their burst? Straw man argument.

    From the post of the guy I replied to:
    SilverKatz wrote: »

    It also require 5 LA and the bonus is lost when you fire the bow proc.
    Also is one of the easiest skill to dodge.

    But let's forget about all that it dosen't help your argument right?

    Not to mention many NB pref the current live version of 10% dmg reduction.



    Yes yes it is . Is it the only skill can be dodge or block ? what is the point of sayin it can be dodged then ?
    But do u happen to know any other skills of other classes to match the same potency after 5 LA and hit landed ? I dont think so.

    I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.

    Mael Nightshadow - that's all you need to know.
  • killingspreeb16_ESO
    killingspreeb16_ESO
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    SilverKatz wrote: »

    It also require 5 LA and the bonus is lost when you fire the bow proc.
    Also is one of the easiest skill to dodge.

    But let's forget about all that it dosen't help your argument right?

    Not to mention many NB pref the current live version of 10% dmg reduction.



    Yes yes it is . Is it the only skill can be dodge or block ? what is the point of sayin it can be dodged then ?
    But do u happen to know any other skills of other classes to match the same potency after 5 LA and hit landed ? I dont think so.

    [snip]

    Except is THE EASIEST skill to dodge and one of the most important for NB.

    As other people alredy said there tons of other skill that can match Assassin will but are better most of the time simply by the fact that they are not dodgeable or as easy to dodge.

    [snip]

    [Minor edit for Bait.]
    Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on July 27, 2020 6:26PM
  • merevie
    merevie
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    In a moment of stupidity I just ran mine pvp. I stared at the weapon damage tooltip...2.5k lower than any of my other classes..and gave it a shot. Nightmare. Have to work incredibly hard for a kill while my DK can spam 3 skills while doing something else. And I've run the DK 7 times and have no clue how to play it.

    Magblade can work if you constantly reset the fight with shade/running/psijic -but why are they forced to play that way?

    Needs a massive overhaul :(
  • Mayrael
    Mayrael
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    merevie wrote: »
    In a moment of stupidity I just ran mine pvp. I stared at the weapon damage tooltip...2.5k lower than any of my other classes..and gave it a shot. Nightmare. Have to work incredibly hard for a kill while my DK can spam 3 skills while doing something else. And I've run the DK 7 times and have no clue how to play it.

    Magblade can work if you constantly reset the fight with shade/running/psijic -but why are they forced to play that way?

    Needs a massive overhaul :(

    At least you tried before answering, not like almost everyone else trying to convince all the rest that magblades are ok.

    It's not like magblade can't be dangerous but it requires so much more effort and dedication to make it viable that someone who haven't reach it, won't understand it.
    I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.

    Mael Nightshadow - that's all you need to know.
  • Vermintide
    Vermintide
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    Magblade is more of a range class

    I disagree. Bursting an enemy with any reliability requires melee range.
  • xI_The_Owl_Ix
    xI_The_Owl_Ix
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    @ZOS_Gilliam Please improve magBlades before the PTS cycle ends, magBlades have been in a bad spot in PvP but with the Greymoor changes they got worse and still nothing in 6.1.2. I know you care about Nightblades, so do we!
  • JayKwellen
    JayKwellen
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    @ZOS_Gilliam Please improve magBlades before the PTS cycle ends, magBlades have been in a bad spot in PvP but with the Greymoor changes they got worse and still nothing in 6.1.2. I know you care about Nightblades, so do we!

    Not only did they not directly address magblades, they specifically didn't give an answer to whether grim focus was meant to be excluded from the new crit damage bonus.

    So not only do they not address any of the classes main problems, but they also find a way to not even mention, not even one single sentence, a potentially new problem they created.

    I think that should tell you all you need to know about how ZOS feels about bringing magblades up to par with everyone else.
    Edited by JayKwellen on July 28, 2020 1:08AM
    Xbox NA - JaeKwellen
    Aldmeri Dominion
    Magblade main -- Yes, I do hate myself that much actually, thanks.
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