People in trial guilds need to chill.

Playboy_Shrek · August 2020

I was literally bullied from like 2 trial guilds that i got invited to because I didn't want to specifically use the items they wanted or codes/notifier, am not sure why is it a requirement. why are average guilds expecting people to gear up and get ready like they are beating world records and speedrun records?. like, can we chill for a moment here. I cleared vSS as MT a while ago at cp 390 and I had to pretend I had notifier to get in and people said I did pretty good. and it was a pug lol.

LuxLunae · August 2020

Wow I am CP 810+ and I still havent done a vANYTRIAL.

I was in one then they told me to parse a dummy. I ran. I am not about to parse a dummy. That isnt real world anyways.

JTD · August 2020

Cause gearing up in this game isn't hard and you can easily do it. It's not hard to optimize at a gear level, it's harder to optimize at an up-time level. Sounds like you need a casual friendly trial guild/group. It's all about expectation management.

And a dummy parse shows you can do your rotation in the most favorable circumstances to the best of your capabilities. It's a starting off point, if you can do 75k at a dummy there is a good chance you can do a good amount in an actual fight. If you can do 25k on a dummy you probably struggle in a real fight.

lolo_01b16_ESO · August 2020

If you end up in a guild that has goals that don't match the way you want to play the game, why don't you simply leave and look for a new one? There are so many people playing eso, I'm sure everyone can find likeminded people.

Just because they are not beating world records doesn't mean they don't want to improve and get smoother runs / better scores. Just think about amateur sports as a comparison. There the people are far away from winning the olympics or a world championship, but still there are many teams that want to get better and expect their teammates to try their best to help the team.

Seminolegirl1992 · August 2020

Just because the trial guild is not shooting for world records does not mean they don't have goals they would like to achieve, like the person above me said. This is pretty much a requirement in any guild that runs trials. It's not meant to be opposing- it's to help both you and the guild improve. Your refusal to compromise could possibly slow them down or prevent them from achieving goals. Now, there are probably very laid back vet trial guilds that have no requirements...so good luck. I wouldn't necessarily go about expecting that sort of thing. It'd be like joining a trading guild and being upset if they possibly have requirements or minimums.

colossalvoids · August 2020

Lol so you applied to someone's guild with your own rules? Surely a way for success.
It's common courtesy to use code's/rn and have a decent build if aiming to play in good groups.

zvavi · August 2020

Apply to a more laid back trial guild.

Olupajmibanan · August 2020

Sorry, don't want to be rude but this sounds to me like "I want to clear content but don't want to do anything for it".

Is it really that hard to slap 2 sets on your character and download an addon that is literally a download-run type addon with no settings (looking at CCA)? That's pretty low price for being allowed in high-end content, don't you think?

witchdoctor · August 2020

zvavi wrote: »

Apply to a more laid back trial guild.

The answer right there.

Runefang · August 2020

LuxLunae wrote: »

Wow I am CP 810+ and I still havent done a vANYTRIAL.

I was in one then they told me to parse a dummy. I ran. I am not about to parse a dummy. That isnt real world anyways.

That'd be why you haven't done a vet trial....

I just don't get why people aren't willing to pay the entry fee to do vet trials. It's not difficult. Stubbornness for the sake of it really.

Score/trifecta runs aren't the only ones that benefit from optimisation, literally every single trial group in the game will find it much easier to achieve their objective (clear, score, no death etc) if they run with BiS set ups. I understand why more casual players don't want to change classes to suit the group, but I don't get gear/addons/skills etc, do what's best for the group.

witchdoctor · August 2020

Runefang wrote: »

That'd be why you haven't done a vet trial....

Let alone a demonstration of *not* understanding the point of a dummy parse.

LuxLunae wrote: »

... That isnt real world anyways.

Joxer61 · August 2020

dont join "those" types of guilds...period.

gatekeeper13 · August 2020

If you got "bullied" in a guild, then it is a trash guild composed of toxic trash people and there is no reason for you to keep staying there. Just leave the guild and find one with a casual playstyle. Guilds like the one mentioned is composed of elitist people who mixed the virtual ESO world with the real one.

Funniest thing I see in 1-2 of the guilds I am a part of, is people asking for achievements to accept members for a vet trial as if they are in Craglorn chat zone or sth.

I mean, if people are excluded by their guildmates from a vet Trial run, then who can they complete it with?

WeerW3ir · August 2020

i guess. *puts on sunglasses* they forgot their snickers... *yeeeeeeeeaaaa*

Elwendryll · August 2020

We have a main tank playing without add-ons and a controller. I have to remind myself of that every time.
Just set the expectations straight before joining. There is nothing wrong or toxic about having this kind of requirements, just make sure everyone is on the same page before joining.

Dusk_Coven · August 2020

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Sorry, don't want to be rude but this sounds to me like "I want to clear content but don't want to do anything for it".

Does it? Read carefully. The OP can clear content just fine without handicap addons or even being CP cap and meta gear.
If he's failing at the trial mechanics, then sure maybe he could take a hint and try Raid Notifier or get a gear upgrade. But if someone is good enough that they don't need a crutch, why force them?
This conversation wouldn't even be a thing on Console where you can't even get a handicap addon.

Playboy_Shrek wrote: »

I cleared vSS as MT a while ago at cp 390 and I had to pretend I had notifier to get in and people said I did pretty good. and it was a pug lol.

Grandchamp1989 · August 2020

lolol I agree

Try doing trials as a tank, it's joke.

You're told what to wear, what skills to use and even what ultimates.

You got zero say in anything. I avoid, them it's not fun

Lalothen · August 2020

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Sorry, don't want to be rude but this sounds to me like "I want to clear content but don't want to do anything for it".

Does it? Read carefully. The OP can clear content just fine without handicap addons or even being CP cap and meta gear.
If he's failing at the trial mechanics, then sure maybe he could take a hint and try Raid Notifier or get a gear upgrade. But if someone is good enough that they don't need a crutch, why force them?
This conversation wouldn't even be a thing on Console where you can't even get a handicap addon.

Playboy_Shrek wrote: »

I cleared vSS as MT a while ago at cp 390 and I had to pretend I had notifier to get in and people said I did pretty good. and it was a pug lol.

Clearing vSS as tank means absolutely nothing without actual context, frankly. I've seen plenty of instances of shoddy tanks carried through group content because everyone else was doing their job properly. Just tanking isn't the only role a tank fulfils in tougher content either; it's as much about augmenting your group as anything else. If he doesn't want to bother running support sets or download addons that can provide critical notifications in the more mechanic-heavy Trial scenarios, then he's going to have a tough time finding a Trial guild that'll take him seriously as a prospective MT. End of story.

[snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

code65536 · August 2020

Playboy_Shrek wrote: »

I didn't want to specifically use the items they wanted

Trials are a team sport. It's not about you. It's about you and 11 other people. And for supports--tanks and healers--are expected to, well, support the group. Sure, supporting the group isn't the the primary job of a tank (that's to hold aggro and not die), but it is an important secondary job, and refusing to run a certain skill or wear a certain support set is tantamount to you saying that you don't want to do your job.

Playboy_Shrek wrote: »

codes/notifier, am not sure why is it a requirement.

That should never be a requirement. Addons like that are assistive, and shouldn't be required (particularly in Sunspire for a tank). And as others have pointed out, there's no way to enforce such a requirement. Just say that you're using it--there's no way for anyone to know. That said, doing mechanics properly is a requirement. And if someone reacts too slowly or outright misses a cue, then they're holding back 11 other people.

In an organized trial, players need to ask, "Am I being disrespectful to the time of 11 other people by not being a team player?"

JanTanhide · August 2020

I don't blame you at all. Find a guild or make your own guild and set some goals to do Trials. Eventually you will have a nice group of friendly people that will do the Trials with no strings attached.

I don't do Dummy parses either yet I have cleared every Vet dungeon with most in HM (except the newest ones) on all three roles (Tank, DPS and Healer). Heck, I have soloed quite a few Vet dungeons and even the DLC dungeons (so far in Normal) such as Bloodroot Forge and Falkreath Hold (even soloed Direfrost before it was changed in Vet).

Dummy parses don't mean much to me but they sure do to a lot of folks in the game. If you can stay alive in hard, Vet content and get through the vet dungeons that is good enough for me.

I've watched some of the ESO Streamers filled with themselves join a pre made group of other Streamers to do Vet runs and then get their tails handed to them over and over. Pretty amusing watching it Live on their own Streams getting hammered. But yeah, they could do 82K DPS on the Dummy but couldn't stay alive to do any DPS in a Vet run. A dead DPS is negative DPS. And that was with a dedicated Healer.

Same for Trials except the latest of course. I run the Trials with friends from various Guilds or my friends list and they are all for fun. We have a blast getting them done and sometimes are surprised we beat them. LOL. Point is to enjoy the game with Guildies and friends.

VaranisArano · August 2020

Can't say I understand the logic of joining a guild and then refusing to meet clearly stated expectations, but people did it all the time in my trading guilds and PVP guild, so it must make sense to some people.

But to call it "bullying" when stated expectations are enforced? That, I really don't get.

WastedJoker · August 2020

Haven't done any trial yet so I hope this level of micro-management isn't widespread

Tigerseye · August 2020

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Sorry, don't want to be rude but this sounds to me like "I want to clear content but don't want to do anything for it".

Is it really that hard to slap 2 sets on your character and download an addon that is literally a download-run type addon with no settings (looking at CCA)? That's pretty low price for being allowed in high-end content, don't you think?

Not everyone wants to play with third party combat addons.

Not everyone wants to play with third party addons, period, but given they are pretty much compulsory, due to huge holes in the rest of the game design, we have virtually no choice.

However, we can still play without combat addons, so some people will want to try.

It's kind of depressing that wanting play without addons is frowned upon in these games.

The game should give you everything you need and if it doesn't, you should complain to ZOS.

Not talk as though downloading addons is, somehow, part of the same process as gearing up and so, players are being remiss, or lazy, if they don't do so.

hexnotic · August 2020

It's about how the raid lead/ group presents itself. If the raid lead is polite in their requirements for their group getting the clear then that's perfectly fine. There's nothing wrong with asking for a new DPS to post their parse, once again as long as they make that request in a non toxic manner. Producing a 70k+ parse shows that you can reach high DPS in perfect conditions, which helps weed out all of the low DPS. You will have a veeeerrryyy hard time clearing a V DLC trial with low deeps, so it makes sense not to put your group through the hassle.

So yeah, if the raid lead is behaving in a toxic way, probably not the group for you. If they ask you nicely can you wear these sets, and you decline also not going to be the group for you but at least it wasn't a negative experience.

People have the reqs so that they can get the clear in under 1 hour/ 2 hour etc. They do not want to put their group through a bait run, an approach that respects everyone's time.

Tigerseye · August 2020

WastedJoker wrote: »

Haven't done any trial yet so I hope this level of micro-management isn't widespread

Well, you can look at the agrees and read the posts, here and come to your own conclusion.

To be fair, people in-game are often more laid back, on average, than the people on the forum, but if you went by this forum alone, it would tell you that most people are pretty strict in their approach and are taking it all pretty seriously.

Not really a great ad for trials in this game.

aetherial_heavenn · August 2020

If you play a team sport and join a team, and the coach says, 'make this play when x happens', or 'focus on x player' or do a specific form of training, most people would have no issues and certainly wouldn't see a problem with complying with the request. Seems to me you don't see trials as a team game.

There are lots of chill social guilds that do trials, but even those guilds ask players to work together and complement each other's gear and skills to make it fun for all. They generally help people get what they need and often suggest assistant add-ons or even use logs to help everyone improve, on the assumption that people who do vet trials are interested in improving themselves for the benefit of the team.

By the time most people do vet DLC Trials content in even the most chill guilds, they understand they are working together to get the optimal combination and are pleased to bring their best to the game to help their team mates. It makes everything smoother, easier, quicker and as a result , more satisfying.

So it's up to you: play as a team player and the other 11 people will be chill. Play how you want, ignore what the team leader/coach wants and it will frustrate the rest of the team who won't see how meeting some pretty minimal requirements is such a deal breaker for you.

Perhaps trials just don't suit your individualistic solipsistic play style.

tgrippa · August 2020

Raid lead chooses the rules and gear, end of story. It is not bullying

There are more casual guilds out there, I have seen their advertisements. You can also just make your own group.

This post will not change end gamers trying to optimise.

Xebov · August 2020

Playboy_Shrek wrote: »

I was literally bullied from like 2 trial guilds that i got invited to because I didn't want to specifically use the items they wanted or codes/notifier

You where not literally bullied or bullied at all. You joined guilds and they told you that they have some requirements that you have to fullfil before tehy allow you to join the raids. You didnt want to fullfil them so they didnt let you join.

Playboy_Shrek wrote: »

, am not sure why is it a requirement. why are average guilds expecting people to gear up and get ready like they are beating world records and speedrun records?.

To get anyone on the same page. Vet trials require everyone to do his job and experience showed that certain requirements lead to trials more likely to work out. Thats what its all about. You want to get a trial done with some efficiency.

Playboy_Shrek wrote: »

like, can we chill for a moment here. I cleared vSS as MT a while ago at cp 390 and I had to pretend I had notifier to get in and people said I did pretty good. and it was a pug lol.

Thats just luck, on average most PUG groups fail because DDs have way to low damage.

Its simple. Someone is oprganizing the Guild and is organizing and leading the Trials. They make the rules. If you dont want to comply you have to search for a guild with rules that are more to your liking or make your own guild/trial group. But let me tell you that guilds with more relaxed rules often dont get far.

Dusk_Coven · August 2020

Tigerseye wrote: »

Not everyone wants to play with third party addons, period, but given they are pretty much compulsory, due to huge holes in the rest of the game design, we have virtually no choice.

Oh? How about https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/514030/so-console-just-got-its-first-godslayer-group

Hard trials and achievements are meant to be grinds filled with fails and wipes along the way. I think PC players forgot that in their rush to get addons and no longer play the game as originally intended.

Tigerseye · August 2020

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

If you play a team sport and join a team, and the coach says, 'make this play when x happens', or 'focus on x player' or do a specific form of training, most people would have no issues and certainly wouldn't see a problem with complying with the request. Seems to me you don't see trials as a team game.

There are lots of chill social guilds that do trials, but even those guilds ask players to work together and complement each other's gear and skills to make it fun for all. They generally help people get what they need and often suggest assistant add-ons or even use logs to help everyone improve, on the assumption that people who do vet trials are interested in improving themselves for the benefit of the team.

By the time most people do vet DLC Trials content in even the most chill guilds, they understand they are working together to get the optimal combination and are pleased to bring their best to the game to help their team mates. It makes everything smoother, easier, quicker and as a result , more satisfying.

So it's up to you: play as a team player and the other 11 people will be chill. Play how you want, ignore what the team leader/coach wants and it will frustrate the rest of the team who won't see how meeting some pretty minimal requirements is such a deal breaker for you.

Perhaps trials just don't suit your individualistic solipsistic play style.

I think you are confusing multiplayer games for team sports.

If you play a team sport you are generally accepting a more intense, serious, rule-based, authoritarian experience, but I think it's fair to say that most people don't view multiplayer games in that way.

A few do, though, as we can see here...

daemonios · August 2020

Vet trials require 12 people to devote sometimes scarce time. If your mates actually want to clear the trial and aren't content to simply run it for fun, either get with the program or find one that suits you better.

I've been in several raiding guilds and can assure you they were all more than happy to accept non-cookie cutter builds from players who knew what they were doing. But that's something that needs to be earned if you want 11 strangers to give you their time.