Why magicka necromancer was NERFED this patch, not buffed

Merciful17 · July 2020

As a magcro main, I was really happy to see some traits buffed like divines and infused. The grave grasp change is pretty much useless and no one will use it still. Oh well I thought, at least it's something. But then I saw the nerf to harmony...

Harmony magcro is literally the only right way to play magcro. Yes you can play it without harmony and yes it will work but you'll be at such a huge disadvantage since every other class will be much stronger than you. Not to mention, spirit guardian and blastbones are still buggy af and sometimes refuse to work. I've had my spirit guardian not heal me multiple times which is super annoying.

I also think harmony gave necro class identity, since almost all classes are played more or less the same. Harmony made necro a very unique class compared to the rest. It also made a pretty much useless trait in solo PVP very useful.

I know harmony was problematic since people could hit you with 25k gravity crush which indeed is pretty strong, but remember that you'll have to sacrifice a lot of extra damage and sustain if you're going to run harmony. This is the major disadvantage of the trait.

Necromancer, on the other hand, could hit you with around a 16k grave robber thanks to avid boneyard. While it is still a lot, remember that it is on a 20 sec cooldown and that the necro has much lower dmg/sustain because of harmony. Also keep in mind that the skill, "snipe" can hit for 15k damage, which is insane considering it has no cooldown, no loss to sustain, nor does it involve taking big risks. Meanwhile it also has the longest reach in the whole game at 35 meters, while magicka spammables are 28m.

Here are some pictures of me getting destoryed by this skill.

This was in no-cp IC with 21k+ physical resistance and 21% damage migration (Deaden pain (3%), undo (8%), spirit guardian (10%).

So please ZOS, if you're going to nerf magcro's biggest strenght, at least give magcro some well deserved buffs and bug fixes!

Nemesis7884 · July 2020

magcro needs...something...

hopefully it gets adressed during the class identity rework (if that ever sees the light of day)

Merciful17 · July 2020

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

magcro needs...something...

hopefully it gets adressed during the class identity rework (if that ever sees the light of day)

Indeed. They feel so meh compared to other classes like sorc or templar

maddiniiLuna · July 2020

The Idea behind class identity was not to buff certain classes, but more to give them their own unique abilities to go with the flow, if that makes sense. They wanted each class to be able to use their abilities to fit how they want to play. Here's an example: Before the changes to the warden you had 1 good damage spell and that was Subterranean assault. Everything else was practically useless, as there was other abilities that were better or easier to use.

With a macro this problem doesn't exist. You can fill your bars primarily with class abilities. I would go as far as to say, that magcro has the best class identity of the game. I can literally fill my entire front bar with necro abilities.

As for the damage:
This guy using snipe on you, doing a lot of damage is a statement with not a lot of information behind it. You have 400 cp, he might have 810. The amount of cp's invested in dealing extra damage or the amount of cp's that you couldn't invest in extra defense is making a huge difference. In no cp it's the same thing, that's why the average TTK (Time To Kill) in no CP is around a few seconds, while on CP it's a minute or two.

Maulkin · July 2020

Merciful17 wrote: »

Harmony magcro is literally the only right way to play magcro. Yes you can play it without harmony and yes it will work but you'll be at such a huge disadvantage since every other class will be much stronger than you.

I don't know man, that seems like extreme dramatisation to me. While harmony is indeed the best way to play magcro, I in no way felt inferior to other classes playing without it.

My last build during MYM was a high magicka build with Necropotence + Lich/Warlock backbar + Master's Inferno + Balorgh with Arcane jewels, not using graveyard. It still felt tanky and hugely impactful. Coordinating the dmg boost from master's and balorgh with colossus and bbones was wrecking people.

My main annoyance with the class is the fact that pets don't count as your dmg/heals in battlegrounds, thus affecting your score, and that magicka blastbones doesn't have a useful morph effect at all. Otherwise the class is fine harmony or no.

Fawn4287 · July 2020

Merciful17 wrote: »

As a magcro main, I was really happy to see some traits buffed like divines and infused. The grave grasp change is pretty much useless and no one will use it still. Oh well I thought, at least it's something. But then I saw the nerf to harmony...

Harmony magcro is literally the only right way to play magcro. Yes you can play it without harmony and yes it will work but you'll be at such a huge disadvantage since every other class will be much stronger than you. Not to mention, spirit guardian and blastbones are still buggy af and sometimes refuse to work. I've had my spirit guardian not heal me multiple times which is super annoying.

I also think harmony gave necro class identity, since almost all classes are played more or less the same. Harmony made necro a very unique class compared to the rest. It also made a pretty much useless trait in solo PVP very useful.

I know harmony was problematic since people could hit you with 25k gravity crush which indeed is pretty strong, but remember that you'll have to sacrifice a lot of extra damage and sustain if you're going to run harmony. This is the major disadvantage of the trait.

Necromancer, on the other hand, could hit you with around a 16k grave robber thanks to avid boneyard. While it is still a lot, remember that it is on a 20 sec cooldown and that the necro has much lower dmg/sustain because of harmony. Also keep in mind that the skill, "snipe" can hit for 15k damage, which is insane considering it has no cooldown, no loss to sustain, nor does it involve taking big risks. Meanwhile it also has the longest reach in the whole game at 35 meters, while magicka spammables are 28m.

Here are some pictures of me getting destoryed by this skill.

This was in no-cp IC with 21k+ physical resistance and 21% damage migration (Deaden pain (3%), undo (8%), spirit guardian (10%).

So please ZOS, if you're going to nerf magcro's biggest strenght, at least give magcro some well deserved buffs and bug fixes!

Harmony isn’t a magcro specific, its just a whole bunch of cheesy bash build players had found their next cheesy carry with 3 harmony and a self synergising ability + sometimes nova. There were barely any magcro mains prior to the cheese, there will be even less after. Stop thinking that a magtoon with 30k health, a sword and board and 40k magpool deserves to hit 15k aoe synergies that heals for the damage done.

setayco · July 2020

maddiniiLuna wrote: »

The Idea behind class identity was not to buff certain classes, but more to give them their own unique abilities to go with the flow, if that makes sense. They wanted each class to be able to use their abilities to fit how they want to play. Here's an example: Before the changes to the warden you had 1 good damage spell and that was Subterranean assault. Everything else was practically useless, as there was other abilities that were better or easier to use.

With a macro this problem doesn't exist. You can fill your bars primarily with class abilities. I would go as far as to say, that magcro has the best class identity of the game. I can literally fill my entire front bar with necro abilities.

As for the damage:
This guy using snipe on you, doing a lot of damage is a statement with not a lot of information behind it. You have 400 cp, he might have 810. The amount of cp's invested in dealing extra damage or the amount of cp's that you couldn't invest in extra defense is making a huge difference. In no cp it's the same thing, that's why the average TTK (Time To Kill) in no CP is around a few seconds, while on CP it's a minute or two.

He said he was in no cp. Him being 400 cp doesn’t matter.
Also yes the identity is there but since the skills are mostly lackluster it shames the identity.
Scythe being a health based heal hurts an idea of necromantic scythes, reaping scythes. Any scythe for that matter.
The class lacks a good spammable and CC. There is alot of things that doesn’t make necromancer feel good. Blastbones still needs a active passive that works. In pvp this class has no identity outside of major vulnerability now. And lackluster skills. There is only one thing this class can offer now besides the big bomb burst and its just a debuff that can get purged. Without buffs and the nerf to harmony the few magcros that even seen success with the niche playstyle might even switch away. Something needs to be done.

Maulkin · July 2020

setayco wrote: »

maddiniiLuna wrote: »

The Idea behind class identity was not to buff certain classes, but more to give them their own unique abilities to go with the flow, if that makes sense. They wanted each class to be able to use their abilities to fit how they want to play. Here's an example: Before the changes to the warden you had 1 good damage spell and that was Subterranean assault. Everything else was practically useless, as there was other abilities that were better or easier to use.

With a macro this problem doesn't exist. You can fill your bars primarily with class abilities. I would go as far as to say, that magcro has the best class identity of the game. I can literally fill my entire front bar with necro abilities.

As for the damage:
This guy using snipe on you, doing a lot of damage is a statement with not a lot of information behind it. You have 400 cp, he might have 810. The amount of cp's invested in dealing extra damage or the amount of cp's that you couldn't invest in extra defense is making a huge difference. In no cp it's the same thing, that's why the average TTK (Time To Kill) in no CP is around a few seconds, while on CP it's a minute or two.

He said he was in no cp. Him being 400 cp doesn’t matter.
Also yes the identity is there but since the skills are mostly lackluster it shames the identity.
Scythe being a health based heal hurts an idea of necromantic scythes, reaping scythes. Any scythe for that matter.
The class lacks a good spammable and CC. There is alot of things that doesn’t make necromancer feel good. Blastbones still needs a active passive that works. In pvp this class has no identity outside of major vulnerability now. And lackluster skills. There is only one thing this class can offer now besides the big bomb burst and its just a debuff that can get purged. Without buffs and the nerf to harmony the few magcros that even seen success with the niche playstyle might even switch away. Something needs to be done.

The argument about Scythe is quite bizarre. Firstly the class has a very strong burst heal already that scales off of max mag and spell damage. It's called Render Flesh. If you feel that magcro is lacking in heals in PvP then I'm speechelss. Scythe heal is intended primarily as a PvE tank heal. It heals extremely well in that context so long as you're melee of the boss/adds. The disadvantage of not healing when there's no enemies is offset by it's dual purpose. That being a very good PBAoE damage skill. It's a very well designed skill imo.

And I find the "no identity" arguments quite strange as well. It's a very distinctly themed and skilled pet class that plays like no other. It's very tanky (with an absolute ton of damage mitigation), strong self healing and pretty nice delayed burst. Even with harmony nerfed the Colossus+Graveyard combo empowered by Balorgh will still deal insane damage. Just no enough to one-shot people.

If you don't feel like the class has identity or purpose, by all means switch away. It sounds like the class may not be for you. But your arguments don't hold much water or reflect how most magcro players view the class.

setayco · July 2020

Maulkin wrote: »

setayco wrote: »

maddiniiLuna wrote: »

The Idea behind class identity was not to buff certain classes, but more to give them their own unique abilities to go with the flow, if that makes sense. They wanted each class to be able to use their abilities to fit how they want to play. Here's an example: Before the changes to the warden you had 1 good damage spell and that was Subterranean assault. Everything else was practically useless, as there was other abilities that were better or easier to use.

With a macro this problem doesn't exist. You can fill your bars primarily with class abilities. I would go as far as to say, that magcro has the best class identity of the game. I can literally fill my entire front bar with necro abilities.

As for the damage:
This guy using snipe on you, doing a lot of damage is a statement with not a lot of information behind it. You have 400 cp, he might have 810. The amount of cp's invested in dealing extra damage or the amount of cp's that you couldn't invest in extra defense is making a huge difference. In no cp it's the same thing, that's why the average TTK (Time To Kill) in no CP is around a few seconds, while on CP it's a minute or two.

He said he was in no cp. Him being 400 cp doesn’t matter.
Also yes the identity is there but since the skills are mostly lackluster it shames the identity.
Scythe being a health based heal hurts an idea of necromantic scythes, reaping scythes. Any scythe for that matter.
The class lacks a good spammable and CC. There is alot of things that doesn’t make necromancer feel good. Blastbones still needs a active passive that works. In pvp this class has no identity outside of major vulnerability now. And lackluster skills. There is only one thing this class can offer now besides the big bomb burst and its just a debuff that can get purged. Without buffs and the nerf to harmony the few magcros that even seen success with the niche playstyle might even switch away. Something needs to be done.

The argument about Scythe is quite bizarre. Firstly the class has a very strong burst heal already that scales off of max mag and spell damage. It's called Render Flesh. If you feel that magcro is lacking in heals in PvP then I'm speechelss. Scythe heal is intended primarily as a PvE tank heal. It heals extremely well in that context so long as you're melee of the boss/adds. The disadvantage of not healing when there's no enemies is offset by it's dual purpose. That being a very good PBAoE damage skill. It's a very well designed skill imo.

And I find the "no identity" arguments quite strange as well. It's a very distinctly themed and skilled pet class that plays like no other. It's very tanky (with an absolute ton of damage mitigation), strong self healing and pretty nice delayed burst. Even with harmony nerfed the Colossus+Graveyard combo empowered by Balorgh will still deal insane damage. Just no enough to one-shot people.

If you don't feel like the class has identity or purpose, by all means switch away. It sounds like the class may not be for you. But your arguments don't hold much water or reflect how most magcro players view the class.

Scythe should be an execute. Supports Lore. Scythes in lore cut grass or reap souls. Both ideas executes life. Exterminating it. Getting rid of it. Not providing health. It is not about how much it heals. And the idea has been brought up by other players not including myself. The class having no identity. Like i said. Sorcerers have mobility and high delayed burst.
Wardens have delayed burst with huge AoE pressure.
Templars have light damage with a beautiful class synergy. PoTl jabs burning light. Gap closers and healing.
Nightblades have a nice combo with incap and merciless. With stealth and a shade to teleport to.
Dragonknights have insane pressure with DoTs and lockdown mechanics such as fossilize and talons.
Magcro replicates wardens delayed burst ability. And does bring anything else unique to pvp play outside of harmony (of which will be nerfed) and major vulnerability which can be purged. A class cc which is big enough to be detrimental. But is delayed and can be avoided. Lackluster damaging skills. With class passives (15% DoT increase) that don’t support the class skills. I.E no viable dots for PvP. Never once said magcro lacks in heals. And i also realize that the heals are insanely strong which is a positive. But you need to utilize better comprehension skills. Each one of these classes has class identity in a sense of a core gameplay style. As necromancer still lacks. There are no clear combos or synergies for using the class skills outside of gravedigger and colossus. Which in turn lacks class identity. When i think of identity i think of what a class has to offer, how well the skills work with one another, and what is special about the class to make me remember what to watch out for or get better at predicting actions.
So far necromancers have major vulnerability. Little debuffs (minor maim and vulnerability which are attached to skills which see little use. No group wide buffs. No reliable dots to support the passive. Buggy, lackluster skills outside of Living death.

Atherakhia · July 2020

I really don't think there's a point arguing if the class has an identity. It may be a simple one, but clearly the class is meant to be a 'debuffer'. Unfortunately, that is the only thing of any real value the class brings to a group (which is arguably more than Nightblades, but regardless). For Mag, I'm not sure anyone can make an argument the class is anything but bottom of the barrel in both PvE and PvP. In PvE they have the lowest mag DPS and the only real value they bring at all is major vuln on their ult. This alone warrants bringing several of them in fact which probably means they should put major vuln on another class. Stamina really isn't doing much better with middling DPS and the only real thing anyone mentions is how overpowered major defile is (it is and should be nerfed).

Blastbones, at least on paper, is probably the single easiest skill to fix in the game and since the PTR patch is supposed to be addressing these 'low hanging fruit' that classes still have, I'm honestly shocked it hasn't been changed. Perhaps their concern is where the Necromancer would stand if not for self synergizing harmony bombs and major defile on a spammable ranged, delayed burst skill.

The class needs a fair bit of work and I'm curious how long they'll leave it in this state until it's eventually fixed. Considering the screaming about NBs for the past year or more, I'm assuming Necros are SOL.

Merciful17 · July 2020

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

As a magcro main, I was really happy to see some traits buffed like divines and infused. The grave grasp change is pretty much useless and no one will use it still. Oh well I thought, at least it's something. But then I saw the nerf to harmony...

Harmony magcro is literally the only right way to play magcro. Yes you can play it without harmony and yes it will work but you'll be at such a huge disadvantage since every other class will be much stronger than you. Not to mention, spirit guardian and blastbones are still buggy af and sometimes refuse to work. I've had my spirit guardian not heal me multiple times which is super annoying.

I also think harmony gave necro class identity, since almost all classes are played more or less the same. Harmony made necro a very unique class compared to the rest. It also made a pretty much useless trait in solo PVP very useful.

I know harmony was problematic since people could hit you with 25k gravity crush which indeed is pretty strong, but remember that you'll have to sacrifice a lot of extra damage and sustain if you're going to run harmony. This is the major disadvantage of the trait.

Necromancer, on the other hand, could hit you with around a 16k grave robber thanks to avid boneyard. While it is still a lot, remember that it is on a 20 sec cooldown and that the necro has much lower dmg/sustain because of harmony. Also keep in mind that the skill, "snipe" can hit for 15k damage, which is insane considering it has no cooldown, no loss to sustain, nor does it involve taking big risks. Meanwhile it also has the longest reach in the whole game at 35 meters, while magicka spammables are 28m.

Here are some pictures of me getting destoryed by this skill.

This was in no-cp IC with 21k+ physical resistance and 21% damage migration (Deaden pain (3%), undo (8%), spirit guardian (10%).

So please ZOS, if you're going to nerf magcro's biggest strenght, at least give magcro some well deserved buffs and bug fixes!

Harmony isn’t a magcro specific, its just a whole bunch of cheesy bash build players had found their next cheesy carry with 3 harmony and a self synergising ability + sometimes nova. There were barely any magcro mains prior to the cheese, there will be even less after. Stop thinking that a magtoon with 30k health, a sword and board and 40k magpool deserves to hit 15k aoe synergies that heals for the damage done.

20 sec cooldown on the synergies, easily predictable if the player isn't very good, and very easy to avoid since the range of the graveyard is so small. Also like I've already said, if you run harmony you lose out on a lot of dmg or sustain.The trait was problematic (which I already mentioned) but unless zos actually buffs magcro to it being a somewhat decent class in PvP and PvE then it should stay the way it is.

Merciful17 · July 2020

Maulkin wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

Harmony magcro is literally the only right way to play magcro. Yes you can play it without harmony and yes it will work but you'll be at such a huge disadvantage since every other class will be much stronger than you.

I don't know man, that seems like extreme dramatisation to me. While harmony is indeed the best way to play magcro, I in no way felt inferior to other classes playing without it.

My last build during MYM was a high magicka build with Necropotence + Lich/Warlock backbar + Master's Inferno + Balorgh with Arcane jewels, not using graveyard. It still felt tanky and hugely impactful. Coordinating the dmg boost from master's and balorgh with colossus and bbones was wrecking people.

My main annoyance with the class is the fact that pets don't count as your dmg/heals in battlegrounds, thus affecting your score, and that magicka blastbones doesn't have a useful morph effect at all. Otherwise the class is fine harmony or no.

Ever since I've read the patch notes I decided to drop harmony and put my harmony stuff in a chest until we see what happens. My current build is new moon, torugs pact and valkyn skoria. No graveyard. It is a very good build and I solo world bosses with it and do very well with it in PvP. It isn't even close to how fun harmony necro was. Anyways, despite my current build working very well I still struggle A LOT with the top tier classes (Magsorc, StamDK, Stamsorc, Stamblade, Stamcro).
Magsorc, Stamdk, Stamsorc and Stamcro are just extremly tanky and very hard to pull off a huge burst combo on, and usually it will bring them to half health if you're lucky. Not to mention all the stamDPS except stamblade and stamsorc just spam dizzying swings into execute, when they come close to you you're basically dead or on your backbar spamming heals hoping that they will run out of stamina. Stamblade deals huge dmg and cloak is very annoying. Magplars are usually ok to deal with unless they're good since they're not very tanky and rely a lot on their heals. Allowing me to deal some big burst dmg.

Anyways, Im not saying that if you play magcro you will just be a burden. What I'm saying is that there's always another class that can do something better than you. As long as the player is good you can pull off magcro, but you will be doing much better on other classes. Im also sure you did well with balorghs but remember that not everyone has access to it since it is locked behind a dlc paywall. But yeah Balorgh and necrosmash work really well together even without harmony.

Dracane · July 2020

Merciful17 wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

Harmony magcro is literally the only right way to play magcro. Yes you can play it without harmony and yes it will work but you'll be at such a huge disadvantage since every other class will be much stronger than you.

I don't know man, that seems like extreme dramatisation to me. While harmony is indeed the best way to play magcro, I in no way felt inferior to other classes playing without it.

My last build during MYM was a high magicka build with Necropotence + Lich/Warlock backbar + Master's Inferno + Balorgh with Arcane jewels, not using graveyard. It still felt tanky and hugely impactful. Coordinating the dmg boost from master's and balorgh with colossus and bbones was wrecking people.

My main annoyance with the class is the fact that pets don't count as your dmg/heals in battlegrounds, thus affecting your score, and that magicka blastbones doesn't have a useful morph effect at all. Otherwise the class is fine harmony or no.

Ever since I've read the patch notes I decided to drop harmony and put my harmony stuff in a chest until we see what happens. My current build is new moon, torugs pact and valkyn skoria. No graveyard. It is a very good build and I solo world bosses with it and do very well with it in PvP. It isn't even close to how fun harmony necro was. Anyways, despite my current build working very well I still struggle A LOT with the top tier classes (Magsorc, StamDK, Stamsorc, Stamblade, Stamcro).
Magsorc, Stamdk, Stamsorc and Stamcro are just extremly tanky and very hard to pull off a huge burst combo on, and usually it will bring them to half health if you're lucky. Not to mention all the stamDPS except stamblade and stamsorc just spam dizzying swings into execute, when they come close to you you're basically dead or on your backbar spamming heals hoping that they will run out of stamina. Stamblade deals huge dmg and cloak is very annoying. Magplars are usually ok to deal with unless they're good since they're not very tanky and rely a lot on their heals. Allowing me to deal some big burst dmg.

Anyways, Im not saying that if you play magcro you will just be a burden. What I'm saying is that there's always another class that can do something better than you. As long as the player is good you can pull off magcro, but you will be doing much better on other classes. Im also sure you did well with balorghs but remember that not everyone has access to it since it is locked behind a dlc paywall. But yeah Balorgh and necrosmash work really well together even without harmony.

You struggle to deal damage against Magsorcs and Stamdks? Maybe stop playing a full survive bot?
I find this quite laughable. DK without wings has high spell resistence, but no % mititgations that would make them particularly hard to deal with. It's just the way they build. They are not hard to take out by nature.

And Magsorc is the easiest class to destroy unless they just run away from you and you have no gap closers. All I can imagine, is that you play one of those builds that are afraid to die but then can't kill anyone solid.

Anyron · July 2020

Harmony nerf was best they could do. It should be nerfed weeks ago.
Unhealthy toxic playstyles using harmony selfsynergy hitting for more than 20k in pvp was cancerous

Joy_Division · July 2020

This class is carried by a jewelry trait and reliant on a 225 cost ultimate (usually with a balrogh gear set) to kill people.

Merciful17 · July 2020

Joy_Division wrote: »

This class is carried by a jewelry trait and reliant on a 225 cost ultimate (usually with a balrogh gear set) to kill people.

Very sad indeed

Merciful17 · July 2020

Dracane wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

Harmony magcro is literally the only right way to play magcro. Yes you can play it without harmony and yes it will work but you'll be at such a huge disadvantage since every other class will be much stronger than you.

I don't know man, that seems like extreme dramatisation to me. While harmony is indeed the best way to play magcro, I in no way felt inferior to other classes playing without it.

My last build during MYM was a high magicka build with Necropotence + Lich/Warlock backbar + Master's Inferno + Balorgh with Arcane jewels, not using graveyard. It still felt tanky and hugely impactful. Coordinating the dmg boost from master's and balorgh with colossus and bbones was wrecking people.

My main annoyance with the class is the fact that pets don't count as your dmg/heals in battlegrounds, thus affecting your score, and that magicka blastbones doesn't have a useful morph effect at all. Otherwise the class is fine harmony or no.

Ever since I've read the patch notes I decided to drop harmony and put my harmony stuff in a chest until we see what happens. My current build is new moon, torugs pact and valkyn skoria. No graveyard. It is a very good build and I solo world bosses with it and do very well with it in PvP. It isn't even close to how fun harmony necro was. Anyways, despite my current build working very well I still struggle A LOT with the top tier classes (Magsorc, StamDK, Stamsorc, Stamblade, Stamcro).
Magsorc, Stamdk, Stamsorc and Stamcro are just extremly tanky and very hard to pull off a huge burst combo on, and usually it will bring them to half health if you're lucky. Not to mention all the stamDPS except stamblade and stamsorc just spam dizzying swings into execute, when they come close to you you're basically dead or on your backbar spamming heals hoping that they will run out of stamina. Stamblade deals huge dmg and cloak is very annoying. Magplars are usually ok to deal with unless they're good since they're not very tanky and rely a lot on their heals. Allowing me to deal some big burst dmg.

Anyways, Im not saying that if you play magcro you will just be a burden. What I'm saying is that there's always another class that can do something better than you. As long as the player is good you can pull off magcro, but you will be doing much better on other classes. Im also sure you did well with balorghs but remember that not everyone has access to it since it is locked behind a dlc paywall. But yeah Balorgh and necrosmash work really well together even without harmony.

You struggle to deal damage against Magsorcs and Stamdks? Maybe stop playing a full survive bot?
I find this quite laughable. DK without wings has high spell resistence, but no % mititgations that would make them particularly hard to deal with. It's just the way they build. They are not hard to take out by nature.

And Magsorc is the easiest class to destroy unless they just run away from you and you have no gap closers. All I can imagine, is that you play one of those builds that are afraid to die but then can't kill anyone solid.

Have you ever played Magcro? I have a stamblade character and indeed magsorcs are super easy to destroy since I have high burst, stun and play a very strong class.

They are however not easy at all to deal with as a magcro, since you lack a good CC and magsorcs have 2 pets that serve as body shields, not to mention they also have huge shields that are very hard to take down if they're spamming them. I've already given you my build and it seems as if you didn't really bother to read the whole post. Anyways, I'll say it again. I run torugs pact, valkyn skoria and new moon acolyte. 3 offensive sets. My mainbar is offensive and my backbar defensive.

I also honestly don't get how you find DK's easy to kill. Even with my stamblade I find them extremly tanky. Never have I ever seen a stamdk that wasn't tanky. Many times it also requires more than 1 person to take them down in BG.

Apox · July 2020

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

magcro needs...something...

hopefully it gets adressed during the class identity rework (if that ever sees the light of day)

maybe magcro does need something, bit an instant cast 20k damage synergy that can wipe entire groups isnt it.

kylermacdb16_ESO · July 2020

Class shouldn’t be defined by a jewelry trait. If this is what it takes to get some core improvements then so be it.

Revokus · July 2020

Maulkin wrote: »

setayco wrote: »

maddiniiLuna wrote: »

The Idea behind class identity was not to buff certain classes, but more to give them their own unique abilities to go with the flow, if that makes sense. They wanted each class to be able to use their abilities to fit how they want to play. Here's an example: Before the changes to the warden you had 1 good damage spell and that was Subterranean assault. Everything else was practically useless, as there was other abilities that were better or easier to use.

With a macro this problem doesn't exist. You can fill your bars primarily with class abilities. I would go as far as to say, that magcro has the best class identity of the game. I can literally fill my entire front bar with necro abilities.

As for the damage:
This guy using snipe on you, doing a lot of damage is a statement with not a lot of information behind it. You have 400 cp, he might have 810. The amount of cp's invested in dealing extra damage or the amount of cp's that you couldn't invest in extra defense is making a huge difference. In no cp it's the same thing, that's why the average TTK (Time To Kill) in no CP is around a few seconds, while on CP it's a minute or two.

He said he was in no cp. Him being 400 cp doesn’t matter.
Also yes the identity is there but since the skills are mostly lackluster it shames the identity.
Scythe being a health based heal hurts an idea of necromantic scythes, reaping scythes. Any scythe for that matter.
The class lacks a good spammable and CC. There is alot of things that doesn’t make necromancer feel good. Blastbones still needs a active passive that works. In pvp this class has no identity outside of major vulnerability now. And lackluster skills. There is only one thing this class can offer now besides the big bomb burst and its just a debuff that can get purged. Without buffs and the nerf to harmony the few magcros that even seen success with the niche playstyle might even switch away. Something needs to be done.

The argument about Scythe is quite bizarre. Firstly the class has a very strong burst heal already that scales off of max mag and spell damage. It's called Render Flesh. If you feel that magcro is lacking in heals in PvP then I'm speechelss. Scythe heal is intended primarily as a PvE tank heal. It heals extremely well in that context so long as you're melee of the boss/adds. The disadvantage of not healing when there's no enemies is offset by it's dual purpose. That being a very good PBAoE damage skill. It's a very well designed skill imo.

And I find the "no identity" arguments quite strange as well. It's a very distinctly themed and skilled pet class that plays like no other. It's very tanky (with an absolute ton of damage mitigation), strong self healing and pretty nice delayed burst. Even with harmony nerfed the Colossus+Graveyard combo empowered by Balorgh will still deal insane damage. Just no enough to one-shot people.

If you don't feel like the class has identity or purpose, by all means switch away. It sounds like the class may not be for you. But your arguments don't hold much water or reflect how most magcro players view the class.

I’ve already switched to Magden so much easier to play and much better with skills that actually work

Kingslayer513 · July 2020

Harmony nerf was very much needed. Nothing should be that op. It turned synergies into an "I win" button. Cheesy cheesy cheesy.

Merciful17 · July 2020

kylermacdb16_ESO wrote: »

Class shouldn’t be defined by a jewelry trait. If this is what it takes to get some core improvements then so be it.

Agreed and at the same time not. Every single mag class runs arcane or infused. Before I've heard about the magcro harmony build I had no clue what harmony even was. In my opinion, it makes the game more interesting since there's actually a magicka class that uses a different trait instead of the typical arcane or infused. All magicka traits should be useful, not only 2.

I also agree in a way that the class is weak and needs some extreme improvements. I'd happily give up harmony for some well deserved buffs, but all they did was a small buff to a useless skill that will continue to be useless.

Merciful17 · July 2020

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

Harmony nerf was very much needed. Nothing should be that op. It turned synergies into an "I win" button. Cheesy cheesy cheesy.

I get that. But harmony turned one of the worst classes for PvP and PvE into a viable class which is why I think that harmony should currently remain unchanged until they buff magcro to a point where they are able to compete with other high tier classes. There are so many players who suggest a bunch of interesting magcro buff ideas yet zos doesn't listen which is very disappointing.

Merciful17 · July 2020

Revokus wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

setayco wrote: »

maddiniiLuna wrote: »

The Idea behind class identity was not to buff certain classes, but more to give them their own unique abilities to go with the flow, if that makes sense. They wanted each class to be able to use their abilities to fit how they want to play. Here's an example: Before the changes to the warden you had 1 good damage spell and that was Subterranean assault. Everything else was practically useless, as there was other abilities that were better or easier to use.

With a macro this problem doesn't exist. You can fill your bars primarily with class abilities. I would go as far as to say, that magcro has the best class identity of the game. I can literally fill my entire front bar with necro abilities.

As for the damage:
This guy using snipe on you, doing a lot of damage is a statement with not a lot of information behind it. You have 400 cp, he might have 810. The amount of cp's invested in dealing extra damage or the amount of cp's that you couldn't invest in extra defense is making a huge difference. In no cp it's the same thing, that's why the average TTK (Time To Kill) in no CP is around a few seconds, while on CP it's a minute or two.

He said he was in no cp. Him being 400 cp doesn’t matter.
Also yes the identity is there but since the skills are mostly lackluster it shames the identity.
Scythe being a health based heal hurts an idea of necromantic scythes, reaping scythes. Any scythe for that matter.
The class lacks a good spammable and CC. There is alot of things that doesn’t make necromancer feel good. Blastbones still needs a active passive that works. In pvp this class has no identity outside of major vulnerability now. And lackluster skills. There is only one thing this class can offer now besides the big bomb burst and its just a debuff that can get purged. Without buffs and the nerf to harmony the few magcros that even seen success with the niche playstyle might even switch away. Something needs to be done.

The argument about Scythe is quite bizarre. Firstly the class has a very strong burst heal already that scales off of max mag and spell damage. It's called Render Flesh. If you feel that magcro is lacking in heals in PvP then I'm speechelss. Scythe heal is intended primarily as a PvE tank heal. It heals extremely well in that context so long as you're melee of the boss/adds. The disadvantage of not healing when there's no enemies is offset by it's dual purpose. That being a very good PBAoE damage skill. It's a very well designed skill imo.

And I find the "no identity" arguments quite strange as well. It's a very distinctly themed and skilled pet class that plays like no other. It's very tanky (with an absolute ton of damage mitigation), strong self healing and pretty nice delayed burst. Even with harmony nerfed the Colossus+Graveyard combo empowered by Balorgh will still deal insane damage. Just no enough to one-shot people.

If you don't feel like the class has identity or purpose, by all means switch away. It sounds like the class may not be for you. But your arguments don't hold much water or reflect how most magcro players view the class.

I’ve already switched to Magden so much easier to play and much better with skills that actually work

I've really wanted to create a magden for a while now but I just can't go through leveling 50 lvls again lol ;-;

Vaoh · July 2020

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

magcro needs...something...

hopefully it gets adressed during the class identity rework (if that ever sees the light of day)

As far as I know, we are in the midst of the class identity rework rn....

Bound Armaments change, Crystal Weapon change, etc. These are the reworks. Necromancer is the most recent class and therefore the least likely to see class identity changes.

Revokus · July 2020

Maulkin wrote: »

setayco wrote: »

maddiniiLuna wrote: »

The Idea behind class identity was not to buff certain classes, but more to give them their own unique abilities to go with the flow, if that makes sense. They wanted each class to be able to use their abilities to fit how they want to play. Here's an example: Before the changes to the warden you had 1 good damage spell and that was Subterranean assault. Everything else was practically useless, as there was other abilities that were better or easier to use.

With a macro this problem doesn't exist. You can fill your bars primarily with class abilities. I would go as far as to say, that magcro has the best class identity of the game. I can literally fill my entire front bar with necro abilities.

As for the damage:
This guy using snipe on you, doing a lot of damage is a statement with not a lot of information behind it. You have 400 cp, he might have 810. The amount of cp's invested in dealing extra damage or the amount of cp's that you couldn't invest in extra defense is making a huge difference. In no cp it's the same thing, that's why the average TTK (Time To Kill) in no CP is around a few seconds, while on CP it's a minute or two.

He said he was in no cp. Him being 400 cp doesn’t matter.
Also yes the identity is there but since the skills are mostly lackluster it shames the identity.
Scythe being a health based heal hurts an idea of necromantic scythes, reaping scythes. Any scythe for that matter.
The class lacks a good spammable and CC. There is alot of things that doesn’t make necromancer feel good. Blastbones still needs a active passive that works. In pvp this class has no identity outside of major vulnerability now. And lackluster skills. There is only one thing this class can offer now besides the big bomb burst and its just a debuff that can get purged. Without buffs and the nerf to harmony the few magcros that even seen success with the niche playstyle might even switch away. Something needs to be done.

The argument about Scythe is quite bizarre. Firstly the class has a very strong burst heal already that scales off of max mag and spell damage. It's called Render Flesh. If you feel that magcro is lacking in heals in PvP then I'm speechelss. Scythe heal is intended primarily as a PvE tank heal. It heals extremely well in that context so long as you're melee of the boss/adds. The disadvantage of not healing when there's no enemies is offset by it's dual purpose. That being a very good PBAoE damage skill. It's a very well designed skill imo.

And I find the "no identity" arguments quite strange as well. It's a very distinctly themed and skilled pet class that plays like no other. It's very tanky (with an absolute ton of damage mitigation), strong self healing and pretty nice delayed burst. Even with harmony nerfed the Colossus+Graveyard combo empowered by Balorgh will still deal insane damage. Just no enough to one-shot people.

If you don't feel like the class has identity or purpose, by all means switch away. It sounds like the class may not be for you. But your arguments don't hold much water or reflect how most magcro players view the class.

Yah sure good burst heal that gives minor defile with healing nerf from Greymoor while Templar can Breath of Life for days.. funny.

They could remove the 3 sec resistance gain for all I care but Necro Burst Heal is a dumb ZOS Kiss Curse at it's finest.

Revokus · July 2020

setayco wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

setayco wrote: »

maddiniiLuna wrote: »

The Idea behind class identity was not to buff certain classes, but more to give them their own unique abilities to go with the flow, if that makes sense. They wanted each class to be able to use their abilities to fit how they want to play. Here's an example: Before the changes to the warden you had 1 good damage spell and that was Subterranean assault. Everything else was practically useless, as there was other abilities that were better or easier to use.

With a macro this problem doesn't exist. You can fill your bars primarily with class abilities. I would go as far as to say, that magcro has the best class identity of the game. I can literally fill my entire front bar with necro abilities.

As for the damage:
This guy using snipe on you, doing a lot of damage is a statement with not a lot of information behind it. You have 400 cp, he might have 810. The amount of cp's invested in dealing extra damage or the amount of cp's that you couldn't invest in extra defense is making a huge difference. In no cp it's the same thing, that's why the average TTK (Time To Kill) in no CP is around a few seconds, while on CP it's a minute or two.

He said he was in no cp. Him being 400 cp doesn’t matter.
Also yes the identity is there but since the skills are mostly lackluster it shames the identity.
Scythe being a health based heal hurts an idea of necromantic scythes, reaping scythes. Any scythe for that matter.
The class lacks a good spammable and CC. There is alot of things that doesn’t make necromancer feel good. Blastbones still needs a active passive that works. In pvp this class has no identity outside of major vulnerability now. And lackluster skills. There is only one thing this class can offer now besides the big bomb burst and its just a debuff that can get purged. Without buffs and the nerf to harmony the few magcros that even seen success with the niche playstyle might even switch away. Something needs to be done.

The argument about Scythe is quite bizarre. Firstly the class has a very strong burst heal already that scales off of max mag and spell damage. It's called Render Flesh. If you feel that magcro is lacking in heals in PvP then I'm speechelss. Scythe heal is intended primarily as a PvE tank heal. It heals extremely well in that context so long as you're melee of the boss/adds. The disadvantage of not healing when there's no enemies is offset by it's dual purpose. That being a very good PBAoE damage skill. It's a very well designed skill imo.

And I find the "no identity" arguments quite strange as well. It's a very distinctly themed and skilled pet class that plays like no other. It's very tanky (with an absolute ton of damage mitigation), strong self healing and pretty nice delayed burst. Even with harmony nerfed the Colossus+Graveyard combo empowered by Balorgh will still deal insane damage. Just no enough to one-shot people.

If you don't feel like the class has identity or purpose, by all means switch away. It sounds like the class may not be for you. But your arguments don't hold much water or reflect how most magcro players view the class.

Scythe should be an execute. Supports Lore. Scythes in lore cut grass or reap souls. Both ideas executes life. Exterminating it. Getting rid of it. Not providing health. It is not about how much it heals. And the idea has been brought up by other players not including myself. The class having no identity. Like i said. Sorcerers have mobility and high delayed burst.
Wardens have delayed burst with huge AoE pressure.
Templars have light damage with a beautiful class synergy. PoTl jabs burning light. Gap closers and healing.
Nightblades have a nice combo with incap and merciless. With stealth and a shade to teleport to.
Dragonknights have insane pressure with DoTs and lockdown mechanics such as fossilize and talons.
Magcro replicates wardens delayed burst ability. And does bring anything else unique to pvp play outside of harmony (of which will be nerfed) and major vulnerability which can be purged. A class cc which is big enough to be detrimental. But is delayed and can be avoided. Lackluster damaging skills. With class passives (15% DoT increase) that don’t support the class skills. I.E no viable dots for PvP. Never once said magcro lacks in heals. And i also realize that the heals are insanely strong which is a positive. But you need to utilize better comprehension skills. Each one of these classes has class identity in a sense of a core gameplay style. As necromancer still lacks. There are no clear combos or synergies for using the class skills outside of gravedigger and colossus. Which in turn lacks class identity. When i think of identity i think of what a class has to offer, how well the skills work with one another, and what is special about the class to make me remember what to watch out for or get better at predicting actions.
So far necromancers have major vulnerability. Little debuffs (minor maim and vulnerability which are attached to skills which see little use. No group wide buffs. No reliable dots to support the passive. Buggy, lackluster skills outside of Living death.

Couldn't have said it better.

BohnT2 · July 2020

Joy_Division wrote: »

This class is carried by a jewelry trait and reliant on a 225 cost ultimate (usually with a balrogh gear set) to kill people.

Those times are gone, this patch it's carried by a ring and 2 procs sets, no more being reliant on a 20 second cooldown and people not walking out of AoEs when you get 60% of your damage from procs.

And that won't change as long magicka necro and warden for a lesser extent are held back offensively by having 2 useable offensive class skills with one being on a 20 seconds delay and the other being unreliable and not having a secondary effect.
Well at least they make the best healers right?

setayco · July 2020

Dracane wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

Harmony magcro is literally the only right way to play magcro. Yes you can play it without harmony and yes it will work but you'll be at such a huge disadvantage since every other class will be much stronger than you.

I don't know man, that seems like extreme dramatisation to me. While harmony is indeed the best way to play magcro, I in no way felt inferior to other classes playing without it.

My last build during MYM was a high magicka build with Necropotence + Lich/Warlock backbar + Master's Inferno + Balorgh with Arcane jewels, not using graveyard. It still felt tanky and hugely impactful. Coordinating the dmg boost from master's and balorgh with colossus and bbones was wrecking people.

My main annoyance with the class is the fact that pets don't count as your dmg/heals in battlegrounds, thus affecting your score, and that magicka blastbones doesn't have a useful morph effect at all. Otherwise the class is fine harmony or no.

Ever since I've read the patch notes I decided to drop harmony and put my harmony stuff in a chest until we see what happens. My current build is new moon, torugs pact and valkyn skoria. No graveyard. It is a very good build and I solo world bosses with it and do very well with it in PvP. It isn't even close to how fun harmony necro was. Anyways, despite my current build working very well I still struggle A LOT with the top tier classes (Magsorc, StamDK, Stamsorc, Stamblade, Stamcro).
Magsorc, Stamdk, Stamsorc and Stamcro are just extremly tanky and very hard to pull off a huge burst combo on, and usually it will bring them to half health if you're lucky. Not to mention all the stamDPS except stamblade and stamsorc just spam dizzying swings into execute, when they come close to you you're basically dead or on your backbar spamming heals hoping that they will run out of stamina. Stamblade deals huge dmg and cloak is very annoying. Magplars are usually ok to deal with unless they're good since they're not very tanky and rely a lot on their heals. Allowing me to deal some big burst dmg.

Anyways, Im not saying that if you play magcro you will just be a burden. What I'm saying is that there's always another class that can do something better than you. As long as the player is good you can pull off magcro, but you will be doing much better on other classes. Im also sure you did well with balorghs but remember that not everyone has access to it since it is locked behind a dlc paywall. But yeah Balorgh and necrosmash work really well together even without harmony.

You struggle to deal damage against Magsorcs and Stamdks? Maybe stop playing a full survive bot?
I find this quite laughable. DK without wings has high spell resistence, but no % mititgations that would make them particularly hard to deal with. It's just the way they build. They are not hard to take out by nature.

And Magsorc is the easiest class to destroy unless they just run away from you and you have no gap closers. All I can imagine, is that you play one of those builds that are afraid to die but then can't kill anyone solid.

Complete biased statement. You were one of the first to misunderstand a change magicka sorc. And must not have taken notice to the disparity between magicka classes as a whole. The only thing magicka sorcs cant do better than other classes is aoe damage. But are equipped with a unblockable, undodgeable, gap closing and gap creating skill. Unblockable damage. Best combo creator and one of the two classes to make meteor even viable.

Saubon · July 2020

Next patch pvp magcros will be "magblade No.2" if they won't fix mag BB morph or give magcros something else

Merciful17 · July 2020

Saubon wrote: »

Next patch pvp magcros will be "magblade No.2" if they won't fix mag BB morph or give magcros something else

So many possibilities of making the magicka blastbones just as good as the stamina one. Honestly ever since I started playing I found it so dumb that "Stamina Necromancer" Is better than an actual necromancer, who uses magic.