Why magicka necromancer was NERFED this patch, not buffed

Mayrael

Merciful17 wrote: »

Saubon wrote: »

Next patch pvp magcros will be "magblade No.2" if they won't fix mag BB morph or give magcros something else

So many possibilities of making the magicka blastbones just as good as the stamina one. Honestly ever since I started playing I found it so dumb that "Stamina Necromancer" Is better than an actual necromancer, who uses magic.

It's Elder Stamina Online - they have to stay consistent. Magicka necro needs some love, it lacks real execute, it lacks gap closer, it lacks reliable CC, magicka BB though are dealing good damage are way behind stam version.

With love from magblade main One day my friends, one they all the rest will say we play ez mode classes, one day...

dominguero96

Saubon wrote: »

Next patch pvp magcros will be "magblade No.2" if they won't fix mag BB morph or give magcros something else

At least magcros have very good healing and survival.
I used to play a magblade but got sick of needing far much skill than one button classes. Then decided to main a magcro.

Make no mistake, Zos has proven continuously that class identity and balance is not something they know how to do it.

If you expect magcro to be a viable option, well don't. In best case, we would need to wait as magden had to

Mortiis13

This snipe dmg happens only on a full divines gank build with less to zero sustain/defence.
If they get spotted u can one hit em also.
IC is a ganking builds heaven, you need other builds to withstand this hell when in cyro or bg.

The problem with snipe is the huge range/travel time it has, when 1 snipe hits you, another snipe/la/skill is alrdy on the way to you.
Block/los/heal is the only way to survive this. Sadly a proper working server is required.

Also pls keep in mind, that the solo brawler builds getting destroyed by zos (stat set nerf, heal nerf, proc set dmg buff) , so many solo player search for other effective solo play, even if they don't like it as much as u think.

Beside that, magcro is totally useless in pvp now in terms of dmg, I play it only in pve.

Merciful17

Mayrael wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

Saubon wrote: »

Next patch pvp magcros will be "magblade No.2" if they won't fix mag BB morph or give magcros something else

So many possibilities of making the magicka blastbones just as good as the stamina one. Honestly ever since I started playing I found it so dumb that "Stamina Necromancer" Is better than an actual necromancer, who uses magic.

It's Elder Stamina Online - they have to stay consistent. Magicka necro needs some love, it lacks real execute, it lacks gap closer, it lacks reliable CC, magicka BB though are dealing good damage are way behind stam version.

With love from magblade main One day my friends, one they all the rest will say we play ez mode classes, one day...

I have a magblade too lol, yeah they're not very good. But at least they have a nice spammable. Shame they have no burst heal tho

Dracane

setayco wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

Harmony magcro is literally the only right way to play magcro. Yes you can play it without harmony and yes it will work but you'll be at such a huge disadvantage since every other class will be much stronger than you.

I don't know man, that seems like extreme dramatisation to me. While harmony is indeed the best way to play magcro, I in no way felt inferior to other classes playing without it.

My last build during MYM was a high magicka build with Necropotence + Lich/Warlock backbar + Master's Inferno + Balorgh with Arcane jewels, not using graveyard. It still felt tanky and hugely impactful. Coordinating the dmg boost from master's and balorgh with colossus and bbones was wrecking people.

My main annoyance with the class is the fact that pets don't count as your dmg/heals in battlegrounds, thus affecting your score, and that magicka blastbones doesn't have a useful morph effect at all. Otherwise the class is fine harmony or no.

Ever since I've read the patch notes I decided to drop harmony and put my harmony stuff in a chest until we see what happens. My current build is new moon, torugs pact and valkyn skoria. No graveyard. It is a very good build and I solo world bosses with it and do very well with it in PvP. It isn't even close to how fun harmony necro was. Anyways, despite my current build working very well I still struggle A LOT with the top tier classes (Magsorc, StamDK, Stamsorc, Stamblade, Stamcro).
Magsorc, Stamdk, Stamsorc and Stamcro are just extremly tanky and very hard to pull off a huge burst combo on, and usually it will bring them to half health if you're lucky. Not to mention all the stamDPS except stamblade and stamsorc just spam dizzying swings into execute, when they come close to you you're basically dead or on your backbar spamming heals hoping that they will run out of stamina. Stamblade deals huge dmg and cloak is very annoying. Magplars are usually ok to deal with unless they're good since they're not very tanky and rely a lot on their heals. Allowing me to deal some big burst dmg.

Anyways, Im not saying that if you play magcro you will just be a burden. What I'm saying is that there's always another class that can do something better than you. As long as the player is good you can pull off magcro, but you will be doing much better on other classes. Im also sure you did well with balorghs but remember that not everyone has access to it since it is locked behind a dlc paywall. But yeah Balorgh and necrosmash work really well together even without harmony.

You struggle to deal damage against Magsorcs and Stamdks? Maybe stop playing a full survive bot?
I find this quite laughable. DK without wings has high spell resistence, but no % mititgations that would make them particularly hard to deal with. It's just the way they build. They are not hard to take out by nature.

And Magsorc is the easiest class to destroy unless they just run away from you and you have no gap closers. All I can imagine, is that you play one of those builds that are afraid to die but then can't kill anyone solid.

Complete biased statement. You were one of the first to misunderstand a change magicka sorc. And must not have taken notice to the disparity between magicka classes as a whole. The only thing magicka sorcs cant do better than other classes is aoe damage. But are equipped with a unblockable, undodgeable, gap closing and gap creating skill. Unblockable damage. Best combo creator and one of the two classes to make meteor even viable.

How often have you died to meteor? I have never in all my years, not even against streak sorcerers.
Not even most sorcerers want to use it. Taking them being able to use Meteor as your entire argument, is weak, just like the Ult.

setayco

Dracane wrote: »

setayco wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

Harmony magcro is literally the only right way to play magcro. Yes you can play it without harmony and yes it will work but you'll be at such a huge disadvantage since every other class will be much stronger than you.

I don't know man, that seems like extreme dramatisation to me. While harmony is indeed the best way to play magcro, I in no way felt inferior to other classes playing without it.

My last build during MYM was a high magicka build with Necropotence + Lich/Warlock backbar + Master's Inferno + Balorgh with Arcane jewels, not using graveyard. It still felt tanky and hugely impactful. Coordinating the dmg boost from master's and balorgh with colossus and bbones was wrecking people.

My main annoyance with the class is the fact that pets don't count as your dmg/heals in battlegrounds, thus affecting your score, and that magicka blastbones doesn't have a useful morph effect at all. Otherwise the class is fine harmony or no.

Ever since I've read the patch notes I decided to drop harmony and put my harmony stuff in a chest until we see what happens. My current build is new moon, torugs pact and valkyn skoria. No graveyard. It is a very good build and I solo world bosses with it and do very well with it in PvP. It isn't even close to how fun harmony necro was. Anyways, despite my current build working very well I still struggle A LOT with the top tier classes (Magsorc, StamDK, Stamsorc, Stamblade, Stamcro).
Magsorc, Stamdk, Stamsorc and Stamcro are just extremly tanky and very hard to pull off a huge burst combo on, and usually it will bring them to half health if you're lucky. Not to mention all the stamDPS except stamblade and stamsorc just spam dizzying swings into execute, when they come close to you you're basically dead or on your backbar spamming heals hoping that they will run out of stamina. Stamblade deals huge dmg and cloak is very annoying. Magplars are usually ok to deal with unless they're good since they're not very tanky and rely a lot on their heals. Allowing me to deal some big burst dmg.

Anyways, Im not saying that if you play magcro you will just be a burden. What I'm saying is that there's always another class that can do something better than you. As long as the player is good you can pull off magcro, but you will be doing much better on other classes. Im also sure you did well with balorghs but remember that not everyone has access to it since it is locked behind a dlc paywall. But yeah Balorgh and necrosmash work really well together even without harmony.

You struggle to deal damage against Magsorcs and Stamdks? Maybe stop playing a full survive bot?
I find this quite laughable. DK without wings has high spell resistence, but no % mititgations that would make them particularly hard to deal with. It's just the way they build. They are not hard to take out by nature.

And Magsorc is the easiest class to destroy unless they just run away from you and you have no gap closers. All I can imagine, is that you play one of those builds that are afraid to die but then can't kill anyone solid.

Complete biased statement. You were one of the first to misunderstand a change magicka sorc. And must not have taken notice to the disparity between magicka classes as a whole. The only thing magicka sorcs cant do better than other classes is aoe damage. But are equipped with a unblockable, undodgeable, gap closing and gap creating skill. Unblockable damage. Best combo creator and one of the two classes to make meteor even viable.

How often have you died to meteor? I have never in all my years, not even against streak sorcerers.
Not even most sorcerers want to use it. Taking them being able to use Meteor as your entire argument, is weak, just like the Ult.

Actually i used streak as my argument. And provided meteor ( a weak ultimate which is countered easily by block) as the example. Streak goes through block, dodge and is easily one of the best skills in the game. Paired with being able to use TWO damage shields for mitigation. Unblockable damage in the form of debuffs. And a class execute. The class is loaded with everything but strong aoe burst. Making it easily the top tier magicka class in the area of burst, survivability and mobility. Once again poor comprehension and more bias statements.

Dracane

setayco wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

setayco wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

Harmony magcro is literally the only right way to play magcro. Yes you can play it without harmony and yes it will work but you'll be at such a huge disadvantage since every other class will be much stronger than you.

I don't know man, that seems like extreme dramatisation to me. While harmony is indeed the best way to play magcro, I in no way felt inferior to other classes playing without it.

My last build during MYM was a high magicka build with Necropotence + Lich/Warlock backbar + Master's Inferno + Balorgh with Arcane jewels, not using graveyard. It still felt tanky and hugely impactful. Coordinating the dmg boost from master's and balorgh with colossus and bbones was wrecking people.

My main annoyance with the class is the fact that pets don't count as your dmg/heals in battlegrounds, thus affecting your score, and that magicka blastbones doesn't have a useful morph effect at all. Otherwise the class is fine harmony or no.

Ever since I've read the patch notes I decided to drop harmony and put my harmony stuff in a chest until we see what happens. My current build is new moon, torugs pact and valkyn skoria. No graveyard. It is a very good build and I solo world bosses with it and do very well with it in PvP. It isn't even close to how fun harmony necro was. Anyways, despite my current build working very well I still struggle A LOT with the top tier classes (Magsorc, StamDK, Stamsorc, Stamblade, Stamcro).
Magsorc, Stamdk, Stamsorc and Stamcro are just extremly tanky and very hard to pull off a huge burst combo on, and usually it will bring them to half health if you're lucky. Not to mention all the stamDPS except stamblade and stamsorc just spam dizzying swings into execute, when they come close to you you're basically dead or on your backbar spamming heals hoping that they will run out of stamina. Stamblade deals huge dmg and cloak is very annoying. Magplars are usually ok to deal with unless they're good since they're not very tanky and rely a lot on their heals. Allowing me to deal some big burst dmg.

Anyways, Im not saying that if you play magcro you will just be a burden. What I'm saying is that there's always another class that can do something better than you. As long as the player is good you can pull off magcro, but you will be doing much better on other classes. Im also sure you did well with balorghs but remember that not everyone has access to it since it is locked behind a dlc paywall. But yeah Balorgh and necrosmash work really well together even without harmony.

You struggle to deal damage against Magsorcs and Stamdks? Maybe stop playing a full survive bot?
I find this quite laughable. DK without wings has high spell resistence, but no % mititgations that would make them particularly hard to deal with. It's just the way they build. They are not hard to take out by nature.

And Magsorc is the easiest class to destroy unless they just run away from you and you have no gap closers. All I can imagine, is that you play one of those builds that are afraid to die but then can't kill anyone solid.

Complete biased statement. You were one of the first to misunderstand a change magicka sorc. And must not have taken notice to the disparity between magicka classes as a whole. The only thing magicka sorcs cant do better than other classes is aoe damage. But are equipped with a unblockable, undodgeable, gap closing and gap creating skill. Unblockable damage. Best combo creator and one of the two classes to make meteor even viable.

How often have you died to meteor? I have never in all my years, not even against streak sorcerers.
Not even most sorcerers want to use it. Taking them being able to use Meteor as your entire argument, is weak, just like the Ult.

Actually i used streak as my argument. And provided meteor ( a weak ultimate which is countered easily by block) as the example. Streak goes through block, dodge and is easily one of the best skills in the game. Paired with being able to use TWO damage shields for mitigation. Unblockable damage in the form of debuffs. And a class execute. The class is loaded with everything but strong aoe burst. Making it easily the top tier magicka class in the area of burst, survivability and mobility. Once again poor comprehension and more bias statements.

Nah. Their execute is the worst for everything but kill stealing. Shields are gutted and streak is the only good ability they have. Which is outperformed by ball of lightning against most other magicka classes even.

Sorcerer has this one ability that makes it good and that's all there is to it. Other magicka classes have some very strong stuff too, you just refuse to see it. Biased statement indeed.

setayco

Dracane wrote: »

setayco wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

setayco wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

Harmony magcro is literally the only right way to play magcro. Yes you can play it without harmony and yes it will work but you'll be at such a huge disadvantage since every other class will be much stronger than you.

I don't know man, that seems like extreme dramatisation to me. While harmony is indeed the best way to play magcro, I in no way felt inferior to other classes playing without it.

My last build during MYM was a high magicka build with Necropotence + Lich/Warlock backbar + Master's Inferno + Balorgh with Arcane jewels, not using graveyard. It still felt tanky and hugely impactful. Coordinating the dmg boost from master's and balorgh with colossus and bbones was wrecking people.

My main annoyance with the class is the fact that pets don't count as your dmg/heals in battlegrounds, thus affecting your score, and that magicka blastbones doesn't have a useful morph effect at all. Otherwise the class is fine harmony or no.

Ever since I've read the patch notes I decided to drop harmony and put my harmony stuff in a chest until we see what happens. My current build is new moon, torugs pact and valkyn skoria. No graveyard. It is a very good build and I solo world bosses with it and do very well with it in PvP. It isn't even close to how fun harmony necro was. Anyways, despite my current build working very well I still struggle A LOT with the top tier classes (Magsorc, StamDK, Stamsorc, Stamblade, Stamcro).
Magsorc, Stamdk, Stamsorc and Stamcro are just extremly tanky and very hard to pull off a huge burst combo on, and usually it will bring them to half health if you're lucky. Not to mention all the stamDPS except stamblade and stamsorc just spam dizzying swings into execute, when they come close to you you're basically dead or on your backbar spamming heals hoping that they will run out of stamina. Stamblade deals huge dmg and cloak is very annoying. Magplars are usually ok to deal with unless they're good since they're not very tanky and rely a lot on their heals. Allowing me to deal some big burst dmg.

Anyways, Im not saying that if you play magcro you will just be a burden. What I'm saying is that there's always another class that can do something better than you. As long as the player is good you can pull off magcro, but you will be doing much better on other classes. Im also sure you did well with balorghs but remember that not everyone has access to it since it is locked behind a dlc paywall. But yeah Balorgh and necrosmash work really well together even without harmony.

You struggle to deal damage against Magsorcs and Stamdks? Maybe stop playing a full survive bot?
I find this quite laughable. DK without wings has high spell resistence, but no % mititgations that would make them particularly hard to deal with. It's just the way they build. They are not hard to take out by nature.

And Magsorc is the easiest class to destroy unless they just run away from you and you have no gap closers. All I can imagine, is that you play one of those builds that are afraid to die but then can't kill anyone solid.

Complete biased statement. You were one of the first to misunderstand a change magicka sorc. And must not have taken notice to the disparity between magicka classes as a whole. The only thing magicka sorcs cant do better than other classes is aoe damage. But are equipped with a unblockable, undodgeable, gap closing and gap creating skill. Unblockable damage. Best combo creator and one of the two classes to make meteor even viable.

How often have you died to meteor? I have never in all my years, not even against streak sorcerers.
Not even most sorcerers want to use it. Taking them being able to use Meteor as your entire argument, is weak, just like the Ult.

Actually i used streak as my argument. And provided meteor ( a weak ultimate which is countered easily by block) as the example. Streak goes through block, dodge and is easily one of the best skills in the game. Paired with being able to use TWO damage shields for mitigation. Unblockable damage in the form of debuffs. And a class execute. The class is loaded with everything but strong aoe burst. Making it easily the top tier magicka class in the area of burst, survivability and mobility. Once again poor comprehension and more bias statements.

Nah. Their execute is the worst for everything but kill stealing. Shields are gutted and streak is the only good ability they have. Which is outperformed by ball of lightning against most other magicka classes even.

Sorcerer has this one ability that makes it good and that's all there is to it. Other magicka classes have some very strong stuff too, you just refuse to see it. Biased statement indeed.

I haven’t refused to see anything and agreed with a post from a player who is using a underperforming magicka class that is struggling to kill a well established magicka sorcerer and a stamina dragonknight. Both of which in pvp have been indirectly buffed (slightly more effective with current changes) such as the 10% healing loss (which is 20% healing across the board) and malacath band which helps stamina dragonknight perform the the point where all you need is dual wield and a few sets. Shields have been nerfed but has not recieved a double nerf like healing. And of which sorcerers have the ability to utilize two of them. I have not strayed from my previous comments and will not continue to further this conversation straying away from what OP and what many others in this topic of discussion feel. Which is magicka necromancer is very underwhelming and underperforming compared to other magicka classes as a whole.

Merciful17

setayco wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

setayco wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

setayco wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

Harmony magcro is literally the only right way to play magcro. Yes you can play it without harmony and yes it will work but you'll be at such a huge disadvantage since every other class will be much stronger than you.

I don't know man, that seems like extreme dramatisation to me. While harmony is indeed the best way to play magcro, I in no way felt inferior to other classes playing without it.

My last build during MYM was a high magicka build with Necropotence + Lich/Warlock backbar + Master's Inferno + Balorgh with Arcane jewels, not using graveyard. It still felt tanky and hugely impactful. Coordinating the dmg boost from master's and balorgh with colossus and bbones was wrecking people.

My main annoyance with the class is the fact that pets don't count as your dmg/heals in battlegrounds, thus affecting your score, and that magicka blastbones doesn't have a useful morph effect at all. Otherwise the class is fine harmony or no.

Ever since I've read the patch notes I decided to drop harmony and put my harmony stuff in a chest until we see what happens. My current build is new moon, torugs pact and valkyn skoria. No graveyard. It is a very good build and I solo world bosses with it and do very well with it in PvP. It isn't even close to how fun harmony necro was. Anyways, despite my current build working very well I still struggle A LOT with the top tier classes (Magsorc, StamDK, Stamsorc, Stamblade, Stamcro).
Magsorc, Stamdk, Stamsorc and Stamcro are just extremly tanky and very hard to pull off a huge burst combo on, and usually it will bring them to half health if you're lucky. Not to mention all the stamDPS except stamblade and stamsorc just spam dizzying swings into execute, when they come close to you you're basically dead or on your backbar spamming heals hoping that they will run out of stamina. Stamblade deals huge dmg and cloak is very annoying. Magplars are usually ok to deal with unless they're good since they're not very tanky and rely a lot on their heals. Allowing me to deal some big burst dmg.

Anyways, Im not saying that if you play magcro you will just be a burden. What I'm saying is that there's always another class that can do something better than you. As long as the player is good you can pull off magcro, but you will be doing much better on other classes. Im also sure you did well with balorghs but remember that not everyone has access to it since it is locked behind a dlc paywall. But yeah Balorgh and necrosmash work really well together even without harmony.

You struggle to deal damage against Magsorcs and Stamdks? Maybe stop playing a full survive bot?
I find this quite laughable. DK without wings has high spell resistence, but no % mititgations that would make them particularly hard to deal with. It's just the way they build. They are not hard to take out by nature.

And Magsorc is the easiest class to destroy unless they just run away from you and you have no gap closers. All I can imagine, is that you play one of those builds that are afraid to die but then can't kill anyone solid.

Complete biased statement. You were one of the first to misunderstand a change magicka sorc. And must not have taken notice to the disparity between magicka classes as a whole. The only thing magicka sorcs cant do better than other classes is aoe damage. But are equipped with a unblockable, undodgeable, gap closing and gap creating skill. Unblockable damage. Best combo creator and one of the two classes to make meteor even viable.

How often have you died to meteor? I have never in all my years, not even against streak sorcerers.
Not even most sorcerers want to use it. Taking them being able to use Meteor as your entire argument, is weak, just like the Ult.

Actually i used streak as my argument. And provided meteor ( a weak ultimate which is countered easily by block) as the example. Streak goes through block, dodge and is easily one of the best skills in the game. Paired with being able to use TWO damage shields for mitigation. Unblockable damage in the form of debuffs. And a class execute. The class is loaded with everything but strong aoe burst. Making it easily the top tier magicka class in the area of burst, survivability and mobility. Once again poor comprehension and more bias statements.

Nah. Their execute is the worst for everything but kill stealing. Shields are gutted and streak is the only good ability they have. Which is outperformed by ball of lightning against most other magicka classes even.

Sorcerer has this one ability that makes it good and that's all there is to it. Other magicka classes have some very strong stuff too, you just refuse to see it. Biased statement indeed.

I haven’t refused to see anything and agreed with a post from a player who is using a underperforming magicka class that is struggling to kill a well established magicka sorcerer and a stamina dragonknight. Both of which in pvp have been indirectly buffed (slightly more effective with current changes) such as the 10% healing loss (which is 20% healing across the board) and malacath band which helps stamina dragonknight perform the the point where all you need is dual wield and a few sets. Shields have been nerfed but has not recieved a double nerf like healing. And of which sorcerers have the ability to utilize two of them. I have not strayed from my previous comments and will not continue to further this conversation straying away from what OP and what many others in this topic of discussion feel. Which is magicka necromancer is very underwhelming and underperforming compared to other magicka classes as a whole.

This.

Selot

Absolutely agree with the author of this thread. Magcro is the most clunky class in the game atm. Our spammable is ranged, but it is so slow and can be easily dodged, whilst templar's puncturing sweep deals more damage, heals you, snared enemies, attacks groups of people, and isn't bugged.
Blastbones still doesn't work properly.
Mystic siphon needs several attempts to start working.
Skeletal arcanist deals small damage comparing to other classes' abilities. It needs major sorcery.
Render flesh is a good healing skill but why does it apply minor defile? What's the purpose? Templar's healing skill is the same but it doesn't apply negative effects.
Summoner's armor has stupid and weak bonus which decreases cost of summoning abilities by 15%.
Totem is a very interesting skill but it is slow and doesn't help in PvP in most cases.
Grave grasp is the most useless skill in the game atm. And now on PTS it became even worse. Every patch of skeletal hands used to stun enemy but now only 3 one does it. And it takes more than 1 second for 3rd patch to appear. This skill is a rubbish and NO ONE will use it. We do need a good working and useful CC skill..
Ghost is bugged as well as other necromancer skills are. Sometimes it doesn't heal at all.

Magicka necromancer is the worst class in the game right now. People still play it because of colossus and roleplay. If you remove colossus, be sure that 90% of the necromancers will delete their necro characters and never come back. My main character is the magicka necromancer and I regret it. If I knew how awful the magicka necromancer is, I would NEVER play it. Now I am thinking about changing my main character and forgetting about necromancers forever.

Anyron

setayco wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

setayco wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

Harmony magcro is literally the only right way to play magcro. Yes you can play it without harmony and yes it will work but you'll be at such a huge disadvantage since every other class will be much stronger than you.

I don't know man, that seems like extreme dramatisation to me. While harmony is indeed the best way to play magcro, I in no way felt inferior to other classes playing without it.

My last build during MYM was a high magicka build with Necropotence + Lich/Warlock backbar + Master's Inferno + Balorgh with Arcane jewels, not using graveyard. It still felt tanky and hugely impactful. Coordinating the dmg boost from master's and balorgh with colossus and bbones was wrecking people.

My main annoyance with the class is the fact that pets don't count as your dmg/heals in battlegrounds, thus affecting your score, and that magicka blastbones doesn't have a useful morph effect at all. Otherwise the class is fine harmony or no.

Ever since I've read the patch notes I decided to drop harmony and put my harmony stuff in a chest until we see what happens. My current build is new moon, torugs pact and valkyn skoria. No graveyard. It is a very good build and I solo world bosses with it and do very well with it in PvP. It isn't even close to how fun harmony necro was. Anyways, despite my current build working very well I still struggle A LOT with the top tier classes (Magsorc, StamDK, Stamsorc, Stamblade, Stamcro).
Magsorc, Stamdk, Stamsorc and Stamcro are just extremly tanky and very hard to pull off a huge burst combo on, and usually it will bring them to half health if you're lucky. Not to mention all the stamDPS except stamblade and stamsorc just spam dizzying swings into execute, when they come close to you you're basically dead or on your backbar spamming heals hoping that they will run out of stamina. Stamblade deals huge dmg and cloak is very annoying. Magplars are usually ok to deal with unless they're good since they're not very tanky and rely a lot on their heals. Allowing me to deal some big burst dmg.

Anyways, Im not saying that if you play magcro you will just be a burden. What I'm saying is that there's always another class that can do something better than you. As long as the player is good you can pull off magcro, but you will be doing much better on other classes. Im also sure you did well with balorghs but remember that not everyone has access to it since it is locked behind a dlc paywall. But yeah Balorgh and necrosmash work really well together even without harmony.

You struggle to deal damage against Magsorcs and Stamdks? Maybe stop playing a full survive bot?
I find this quite laughable. DK without wings has high spell resistence, but no % mititgations that would make them particularly hard to deal with. It's just the way they build. They are not hard to take out by nature.

And Magsorc is the easiest class to destroy unless they just run away from you and you have no gap closers. All I can imagine, is that you play one of those builds that are afraid to die but then can't kill anyone solid.

Complete biased statement. You were one of the first to misunderstand a change magicka sorc. And must not have taken notice to the disparity between magicka classes as a whole. The only thing magicka sorcs cant do better than other classes is aoe damage. But are equipped with a unblockable, undodgeable, gap closing and gap creating skill. Unblockable damage. Best combo creator and one of the two classes to make meteor even viable.

How often have you died to meteor? I have never in all my years, not even against streak sorcerers.
Not even most sorcerers want to use it. Taking them being able to use Meteor as your entire argument, is weak, just like the Ult.

Actually i used streak as my argument. And provided meteor ( a weak ultimate which is countered easily by block) as the example. Streak goes through block, dodge and is easily one of the best skills in the game. Paired with being able to use TWO damage shields for mitigation. Unblockable damage in the form of debuffs. And a class execute. The class is loaded with everything but strong aoe burst. Making it easily the top tier magicka class in the area of burst, survivability and mobility. Once again poor comprehension and more bias statements.

Double shields and you are certainly dead. That magicka drain is insane. You can use it but it doesnt mean you SHOULD use it.
In CP pvp its hard to double shield. In noCp its impossible. So go ahead and use it. Drain yourself of resources so they can easily kill you.

Double shielding is roughly 8000mag drain /4s [in fight it can drop to 2s]. I dont think there is build to sustain 4k mag drain/s.


Also, streak is super expensive skill. Don't get it wrong, i agree, on 100%, stun from this skill should be removed. But its not something you can spam and it is by FAR, most expensive magicka Spell. There isn't anything even close to it.

Btw: how we got from "mag Necro nerf" thread to #nerf sorc?
Sorc hate is real. because its only playable magicka class. Period

Merciful17

Anyron wrote: »

setayco wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

setayco wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

Harmony magcro is literally the only right way to play magcro. Yes you can play it without harmony and yes it will work but you'll be at such a huge disadvantage since every other class will be much stronger than you.

I don't know man, that seems like extreme dramatisation to me. While harmony is indeed the best way to play magcro, I in no way felt inferior to other classes playing without it.

My last build during MYM was a high magicka build with Necropotence + Lich/Warlock backbar + Master's Inferno + Balorgh with Arcane jewels, not using graveyard. It still felt tanky and hugely impactful. Coordinating the dmg boost from master's and balorgh with colossus and bbones was wrecking people.

My main annoyance with the class is the fact that pets don't count as your dmg/heals in battlegrounds, thus affecting your score, and that magicka blastbones doesn't have a useful morph effect at all. Otherwise the class is fine harmony or no.

Ever since I've read the patch notes I decided to drop harmony and put my harmony stuff in a chest until we see what happens. My current build is new moon, torugs pact and valkyn skoria. No graveyard. It is a very good build and I solo world bosses with it and do very well with it in PvP. It isn't even close to how fun harmony necro was. Anyways, despite my current build working very well I still struggle A LOT with the top tier classes (Magsorc, StamDK, Stamsorc, Stamblade, Stamcro).
Magsorc, Stamdk, Stamsorc and Stamcro are just extremly tanky and very hard to pull off a huge burst combo on, and usually it will bring them to half health if you're lucky. Not to mention all the stamDPS except stamblade and stamsorc just spam dizzying swings into execute, when they come close to you you're basically dead or on your backbar spamming heals hoping that they will run out of stamina. Stamblade deals huge dmg and cloak is very annoying. Magplars are usually ok to deal with unless they're good since they're not very tanky and rely a lot on their heals. Allowing me to deal some big burst dmg.

Anyways, Im not saying that if you play magcro you will just be a burden. What I'm saying is that there's always another class that can do something better than you. As long as the player is good you can pull off magcro, but you will be doing much better on other classes. Im also sure you did well with balorghs but remember that not everyone has access to it since it is locked behind a dlc paywall. But yeah Balorgh and necrosmash work really well together even without harmony.

You struggle to deal damage against Magsorcs and Stamdks? Maybe stop playing a full survive bot?
I find this quite laughable. DK without wings has high spell resistence, but no % mititgations that would make them particularly hard to deal with. It's just the way they build. They are not hard to take out by nature.

And Magsorc is the easiest class to destroy unless they just run away from you and you have no gap closers. All I can imagine, is that you play one of those builds that are afraid to die but then can't kill anyone solid.

Complete biased statement. You were one of the first to misunderstand a change magicka sorc. And must not have taken notice to the disparity between magicka classes as a whole. The only thing magicka sorcs cant do better than other classes is aoe damage. But are equipped with a unblockable, undodgeable, gap closing and gap creating skill. Unblockable damage. Best combo creator and one of the two classes to make meteor even viable.

How often have you died to meteor? I have never in all my years, not even against streak sorcerers.
Not even most sorcerers want to use it. Taking them being able to use Meteor as your entire argument, is weak, just like the Ult.

Actually i used streak as my argument. And provided meteor ( a weak ultimate which is countered easily by block) as the example. Streak goes through block, dodge and is easily one of the best skills in the game. Paired with being able to use TWO damage shields for mitigation. Unblockable damage in the form of debuffs. And a class execute. The class is loaded with everything but strong aoe burst. Making it easily the top tier magicka class in the area of burst, survivability and mobility. Once again poor comprehension and more bias statements.

Double shields and you are certainly dead. That magicka drain is insane. You can use it but it doesnt mean you SHOULD use it.
In CP pvp its hard to double shield. In noCp its impossible. So go ahead and use it. Drain yourself of resources so they can easily kill you.

Double shielding is roughly 8000mag drain /4s [in fight it can drop to 2s]. I dont think there is build to sustain 4k mag drain/s.


Also, streak is super expensive skill. Don't get it wrong, i agree, on 100%, stun from this skill should be removed. But its not something you can spam and it is by FAR, most expensive magicka Spell. There isn't anything even close to it.

Btw: how we got from "mag Necro nerf" thread to #nerf sorc?
Sorc hate is real. because its only playable magicka class. Period

Pretty sure he was using sorc not to tell people sorcs are op but rather how weak many magicka classes, neco included, are compared to sorc. But you are right. Currently sorc is the best magicka class in PvP. Templars received a pretty big hit with the healing nerf in PvP.

Ruder

* First grave grasp was actually nerfed, the the combination with snare + root at 1,2,3 was times better than what it would be now, I`ll remove the skill from my Tankcro as it will be braindead useless.
* Second Magcro lacks damage if you don't use proc sets, but same goes for Magblade.


* However Magcro is the strongest magicka tank in the game, the things I`m able to do in terms of Tankiness and Group support - I cannot do on any other class and I main a Warden.

what_the

Selot wrote: »

My main character is the magicka necromancer and I regret it. If I knew how awful the magicka necromancer is, I would NEVER play it. Now I am thinking about changing my main character and forgetting about necromancers forever.

You clearly need to move on to another class, the Magcro is not for you/not your play style, and that's ok, different strokes and all.
I'll keep mine, as I can put out damage/heals and survive as well as/better than any of my other mag toons. ☠☠☠

Merciful17

what_the wrote: »

Selot wrote: »

My main character is the magicka necromancer and I regret it. If I knew how awful the magicka necromancer is, I would NEVER play it. Now I am thinking about changing my main character and forgetting about necromancers forever.

You clearly need to move on to another class, the Magcro is not for you/not your play style, and that's ok, different strokes and all.
I'll keep mine, as I can put out damage/heals and survive as well as/better than any of my other mag toons. ☠☠☠

Magcro is awesome for soloing, but if you play PvP or do trials and vet dungeons you'll quickly notice how much better every single class is. The only reason to play Magcro in a trial or dungeon is because of their ultimate.

albertberku

I can confirm for PvP that

- Spirit guardian is not working and
- Without 3x 35% harmony trait magicka necromancer is useless.

Not like they are very useful if they would fix spirit guardian and keep harmony, anyway.

FrancisCrawford

Merciful17 wrote: »

what_the wrote: »

Selot wrote: »

My main character is the magicka necromancer and I regret it. If I knew how awful the magicka necromancer is, I would NEVER play it. Now I am thinking about changing my main character and forgetting about necromancers forever.

You clearly need to move on to another class, the Magcro is not for you/not your play style, and that's ok, different strokes and all.
I'll keep mine, as I can put out damage/heals and survive as well as/better than any of my other mag toons. ☠☠☠

Magcro is awesome for soloing, but if you play PvP or do trials and vet dungeons you'll quickly notice how much better every single class is. The only reason to play Magcro in a trial or dungeon is because of their ultimate.

I was actually thinking of dusting off my magcro and healing dungeons with her. The trigger for the idea is that magcros will be able to proc Elemental Catalyst on an AoE more easily than other classes (any magicka class can of course proc it single-target w/ Force Shock). The debuff from the burst heal may not matter much. AoE Breach/Fracture is a good thing. So basically, Magcro looks like a strong class for support in trash fights. Indeed, sustain could even be decent when enemies are dying all over the place, not that sustain should matter in most trash scenarios.

The problem, of course, is that magcro sustain is bad in boss fights. And those of us who don't like to chug expensive pots also regret the lack of Major Sorcery or Major Prophecy.

Merciful17

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

what_the wrote: »

Selot wrote: »

My main character is the magicka necromancer and I regret it. If I knew how awful the magicka necromancer is, I would NEVER play it. Now I am thinking about changing my main character and forgetting about necromancers forever.

You clearly need to move on to another class, the Magcro is not for you/not your play style, and that's ok, different strokes and all.
I'll keep mine, as I can put out damage/heals and survive as well as/better than any of my other mag toons. ☠☠☠

Magcro is awesome for soloing, but if you play PvP or do trials and vet dungeons you'll quickly notice how much better every single class is. The only reason to play Magcro in a trial or dungeon is because of their ultimate.

I was actually thinking of dusting off my magcro and healing dungeons with her. The trigger for the idea is that magcros will be able to proc Elemental Catalyst on an AoE more easily than other classes (any magicka class can of course proc it single-target w/ Force Shock). The debuff from the burst heal may not matter much. AoE Breach/Fracture is a good thing. So basically, Magcro looks like a strong class for support in trash fights. Indeed, sustain could even be decent when enemies are dying all over the place, not that sustain should matter in most trash scenarios.

The problem, of course, is that magcro sustain is bad in boss fights. And those of us who don't like to chug expensive pots also regret the lack of Major Sorcery or Major Prophecy.

Magcros make good off-supports, but in trials their heals just aren't good enough. Mainly because they need a corpse on the ground all the time to be able to put out decent healing. I remember playing nCR and both of our healers were necromancers. Basically half the team was dead all the time lol. Their ultimates are really good but other than that templar and warden beat them in every single way.

mairwen85

Merciful17 wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

what_the wrote: »

Selot wrote: »

My main character is the magicka necromancer and I regret it. If I knew how awful the magicka necromancer is, I would NEVER play it. Now I am thinking about changing my main character and forgetting about necromancers forever.

You clearly need to move on to another class, the Magcro is not for you/not your play style, and that's ok, different strokes and all.
I'll keep mine, as I can put out damage/heals and survive as well as/better than any of my other mag toons. ☠☠☠

Magcro is awesome for soloing, but if you play PvP or do trials and vet dungeons you'll quickly notice how much better every single class is. The only reason to play Magcro in a trial or dungeon is because of their ultimate.

I was actually thinking of dusting off my magcro and healing dungeons with her. The trigger for the idea is that magcros will be able to proc Elemental Catalyst on an AoE more easily than other classes (any magicka class can of course proc it single-target w/ Force Shock). The debuff from the burst heal may not matter much. AoE Breach/Fracture is a good thing. So basically, Magcro looks like a strong class for support in trash fights. Indeed, sustain could even be decent when enemies are dying all over the place, not that sustain should matter in most trash scenarios.

The problem, of course, is that magcro sustain is bad in boss fights. And those of us who don't like to chug expensive pots also regret the lack of Major Sorcery or Major Prophecy.

Magcros make good off-supports, but in trials their heals just aren't good enough. Mainly because they need a corpse on the ground all the time to be able to put out decent healing. I remember playing nCR and both of our healers were necromancers. Basically half the team was dead all the time lol. Their ultimates are really good but other than that templar and warden beat them in every single way.

I disagree, my necro heals vet trials just fine, maybe not on par with my templar through raw healing, but buffs and debuffs certainly. I think you just had bad healers and they'd be as bad on any class. As necromancer, you still have access to the same restoration abilities and orbs, blood fountain etc, but the class healing kit is pretty awesome too. Yes corpses are required, but those should be provided by your dps (and really only needed for Enduring and Tether)--you can buff them and keep them standing with all non-class heals and common set buffs and procs, and totem is possibly one of the best abilities I have access to, area CC and protection, perfect. Running the mender and popping summoners armour, or even empowering grasp also increase my healing output, with both the armour and mender giving me corpses to consume. Its different to warden or templar, certainly, but it's fun and by no means a lesser healer than either.

Fawn4287

Dracane wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

Harmony magcro is literally the only right way to play magcro. Yes you can play it without harmony and yes it will work but you'll be at such a huge disadvantage since every other class will be much stronger than you.

I don't know man, that seems like extreme dramatisation to me. While harmony is indeed the best way to play magcro, I in no way felt inferior to other classes playing without it.

My last build during MYM was a high magicka build with Necropotence + Lich/Warlock backbar + Master's Inferno + Balorgh with Arcane jewels, not using graveyard. It still felt tanky and hugely impactful. Coordinating the dmg boost from master's and balorgh with colossus and bbones was wrecking people.

My main annoyance with the class is the fact that pets don't count as your dmg/heals in battlegrounds, thus affecting your score, and that magicka blastbones doesn't have a useful morph effect at all. Otherwise the class is fine harmony or no.

Ever since I've read the patch notes I decided to drop harmony and put my harmony stuff in a chest until we see what happens. My current build is new moon, torugs pact and valkyn skoria. No graveyard. It is a very good build and I solo world bosses with it and do very well with it in PvP. It isn't even close to how fun harmony necro was. Anyways, despite my current build working very well I still struggle A LOT with the top tier classes (Magsorc, StamDK, Stamsorc, Stamblade, Stamcro).
Magsorc, Stamdk, Stamsorc and Stamcro are just extremly tanky and very hard to pull off a huge burst combo on, and usually it will bring them to half health if you're lucky. Not to mention all the stamDPS except stamblade and stamsorc just spam dizzying swings into execute, when they come close to you you're basically dead or on your backbar spamming heals hoping that they will run out of stamina. Stamblade deals huge dmg and cloak is very annoying. Magplars are usually ok to deal with unless they're good since they're not very tanky and rely a lot on their heals. Allowing me to deal some big burst dmg.

Anyways, Im not saying that if you play magcro you will just be a burden. What I'm saying is that there's always another class that can do something better than you. As long as the player is good you can pull off magcro, but you will be doing much better on other classes. Im also sure you did well with balorghs but remember that not everyone has access to it since it is locked behind a dlc paywall. But yeah Balorgh and necrosmash work really well together even without harmony.

You struggle to deal damage against Magsorcs and Stamdks? Maybe stop playing a full survive bot?
I find this quite laughable. DK without wings has high spell resistence, but no % mititgations that would make them particularly hard to deal with. It's just the way they build. They are not hard to take out by nature.

And Magsorc is the easiest class to destroy unless they just run away from you and you have no gap closers. All I can imagine, is that you play one of those builds that are afraid to die but then can't kill anyone solid.

These are both by no means tanky classes especially this update, I suppose when you run around in 2 defensive sets these are the trade offs for essentially running a tank

FrancisCrawford

Merciful17 wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

what_the wrote: »

Selot wrote: »

My main character is the magicka necromancer and I regret it. If I knew how awful the magicka necromancer is, I would NEVER play it. Now I am thinking about changing my main character and forgetting about necromancers forever.

You clearly need to move on to another class, the Magcro is not for you/not your play style, and that's ok, different strokes and all.
I'll keep mine, as I can put out damage/heals and survive as well as/better than any of my other mag toons. ☠☠☠

Magcro is awesome for soloing, but if you play PvP or do trials and vet dungeons you'll quickly notice how much better every single class is. The only reason to play Magcro in a trial or dungeon is because of their ultimate.

I was actually thinking of dusting off my magcro and healing dungeons with her. The trigger for the idea is that magcros will be able to proc Elemental Catalyst on an AoE more easily than other classes (any magicka class can of course proc it single-target w/ Force Shock). The debuff from the burst heal may not matter much. AoE Breach/Fracture is a good thing. So basically, Magcro looks like a strong class for support in trash fights. Indeed, sustain could even be decent when enemies are dying all over the place, not that sustain should matter in most trash scenarios.

The problem, of course, is that magcro sustain is bad in boss fights. And those of us who don't like to chug expensive pots also regret the lack of Major Sorcery or Major Prophecy.

Magcros make good off-supports, but in trials their heals just aren't good enough. Mainly because they need a corpse on the ground all the time to be able to put out decent healing. I remember playing nCR and both of our healers were necromancers. Basically half the team was dead all the time lol. Their ultimates are really good but other than that templar and warden beat them in every single way.

Necros have a single-target class heal comparable to Templars', which doesn't require a corpse. So should I presume that one or more Templar AoE class heals are important in trials? Extended Ritual in particular?

Fawn4287

Merciful17 wrote: »

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

Harmony nerf was very much needed. Nothing should be that op. It turned synergies into an "I win" button. Cheesy cheesy cheesy.

I get that. But harmony turned one of the worst classes for PvP and PvE into a viable class which is why I think that harmony should currently remain unchanged until they buff magcro to a point where they are able to compete with other high tier classes. There are so many players who suggest a bunch of interesting magcro buff ideas yet zos doesn't listen which is very disappointing.

So in short you want your current insta group wipe cheese until they make magcro a mid-tier class, then nerf harmony and everyone abandon the class anyway? As I said there weren’t any magcro mains before there won’t be any after, at least ZOS doesn’t leave PvP without some crutches and they will all be 40k health proc set magdens next patch

mairwen85

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

what_the wrote: »

Selot wrote: »

My main character is the magicka necromancer and I regret it. If I knew how awful the magicka necromancer is, I would NEVER play it. Now I am thinking about changing my main character and forgetting about necromancers forever.

You clearly need to move on to another class, the Magcro is not for you/not your play style, and that's ok, different strokes and all.
I'll keep mine, as I can put out damage/heals and survive as well as/better than any of my other mag toons. ☠☠☠

Magcro is awesome for soloing, but if you play PvP or do trials and vet dungeons you'll quickly notice how much better every single class is. The only reason to play Magcro in a trial or dungeon is because of their ultimate.

I was actually thinking of dusting off my magcro and healing dungeons with her. The trigger for the idea is that magcros will be able to proc Elemental Catalyst on an AoE more easily than other classes (any magicka class can of course proc it single-target w/ Force Shock). The debuff from the burst heal may not matter much. AoE Breach/Fracture is a good thing. So basically, Magcro looks like a strong class for support in trash fights. Indeed, sustain could even be decent when enemies are dying all over the place, not that sustain should matter in most trash scenarios.

The problem, of course, is that magcro sustain is bad in boss fights. And those of us who don't like to chug expensive pots also regret the lack of Major Sorcery or Major Prophecy.

Magcros make good off-supports, but in trials their heals just aren't good enough. Mainly because they need a corpse on the ground all the time to be able to put out decent healing. I remember playing nCR and both of our healers were necromancers. Basically half the team was dead all the time lol. Their ultimates are really good but other than that templar and warden beat them in every single way.

Necros have a single-target class heal comparable to Templars', which doesn't require a corpse. So should I presume that one or more Templar AoE class heals are important in trials? Extended Ritual in particular?

The only semi-important things templar has that necro doesn't is a large area synergy purge (ritual) and the Mending, Sacred Ground, and Master Ritualist passives (all raw healing numbers and res speed). Non-things to grumble about in the grand scheme when necro has plenty utility to offer in their place.

azjuwelz

Plus if you need to generate a corpse you use Spirit Mender. I have a necro healer and she does fine.

Merciful17

mairwen85 wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

what_the wrote: »

Selot wrote: »

My main character is the magicka necromancer and I regret it. If I knew how awful the magicka necromancer is, I would NEVER play it. Now I am thinking about changing my main character and forgetting about necromancers forever.

You clearly need to move on to another class, the Magcro is not for you/not your play style, and that's ok, different strokes and all.
I'll keep mine, as I can put out damage/heals and survive as well as/better than any of my other mag toons. ☠☠☠

Magcro is awesome for soloing, but if you play PvP or do trials and vet dungeons you'll quickly notice how much better every single class is. The only reason to play Magcro in a trial or dungeon is because of their ultimate.

I was actually thinking of dusting off my magcro and healing dungeons with her. The trigger for the idea is that magcros will be able to proc Elemental Catalyst on an AoE more easily than other classes (any magicka class can of course proc it single-target w/ Force Shock). The debuff from the burst heal may not matter much. AoE Breach/Fracture is a good thing. So basically, Magcro looks like a strong class for support in trash fights. Indeed, sustain could even be decent when enemies are dying all over the place, not that sustain should matter in most trash scenarios.

The problem, of course, is that magcro sustain is bad in boss fights. And those of us who don't like to chug expensive pots also regret the lack of Major Sorcery or Major Prophecy.

Magcros make good off-supports, but in trials their heals just aren't good enough. Mainly because they need a corpse on the ground all the time to be able to put out decent healing. I remember playing nCR and both of our healers were necromancers. Basically half the team was dead all the time lol. Their ultimates are really good but other than that templar and warden beat them in every single way.

Necros have a single-target class heal comparable to Templars', which doesn't require a corpse. So should I presume that one or more Templar AoE class heals are important in trials? Extended Ritual in particular?

The only semi-important things templar has that necro doesn't is a large area synergy purge (ritual) and the Mending, Sacred Ground, and Master Ritualist passives (all raw healing numbers and res speed). Non-things to grumble about in the grand scheme when necro has plenty utility to offer in their place.

They also have a great abilitiy that restores both stamina and magicka to their teammates by a synergy. Don't forget they also have a passive that grants them and their group minor sorcery via illuminate, which lasts for 20 secs.

Merciful17

mairwen85 wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

what_the wrote: »

Selot wrote: »

My main character is the magicka necromancer and I regret it. If I knew how awful the magicka necromancer is, I would NEVER play it. Now I am thinking about changing my main character and forgetting about necromancers forever.

You clearly need to move on to another class, the Magcro is not for you/not your play style, and that's ok, different strokes and all.
I'll keep mine, as I can put out damage/heals and survive as well as/better than any of my other mag toons. ☠☠☠

Magcro is awesome for soloing, but if you play PvP or do trials and vet dungeons you'll quickly notice how much better every single class is. The only reason to play Magcro in a trial or dungeon is because of their ultimate.

I was actually thinking of dusting off my magcro and healing dungeons with her. The trigger for the idea is that magcros will be able to proc Elemental Catalyst on an AoE more easily than other classes (any magicka class can of course proc it single-target w/ Force Shock). The debuff from the burst heal may not matter much. AoE Breach/Fracture is a good thing. So basically, Magcro looks like a strong class for support in trash fights. Indeed, sustain could even be decent when enemies are dying all over the place, not that sustain should matter in most trash scenarios.

The problem, of course, is that magcro sustain is bad in boss fights. And those of us who don't like to chug expensive pots also regret the lack of Major Sorcery or Major Prophecy.

Magcros make good off-supports, but in trials their heals just aren't good enough. Mainly because they need a corpse on the ground all the time to be able to put out decent healing. I remember playing nCR and both of our healers were necromancers. Basically half the team was dead all the time lol. Their ultimates are really good but other than that templar and warden beat them in every single way.

I disagree, my necro heals vet trials just fine, maybe not on par with my templar through raw healing, but buffs and debuffs certainly. I think you just had bad healers and they'd be as bad on any class. As necromancer, you still have access to the same restoration abilities and orbs, blood fountain etc, but the class healing kit is pretty awesome too. Yes corpses are required, but those should be provided by your dps (and really only needed for Enduring and Tether)--you can buff them and keep them standing with all non-class heals and common set buffs and procs, and totem is possibly one of the best abilities I have access to, area CC and protection, perfect. Running the mender and popping summoners armour, or even empowering grasp also increase my healing output, with both the armour and mender giving me corpses to consume. Its different to warden or templar, certainly, but it's fun and by no means a lesser healer than either.

In terms of healing output necromancer is very strong. But abilities like thether and enduring still require a corpse. Templars also have way better passives for healers. They also have a strong passive that grants them and their group minor sorcery. Besides, running orbs and that spear ability is better than running only orbs.

Merciful17

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

Harmony magcro is literally the only right way to play magcro. Yes you can play it without harmony and yes it will work but you'll be at such a huge disadvantage since every other class will be much stronger than you.

I don't know man, that seems like extreme dramatisation to me. While harmony is indeed the best way to play magcro, I in no way felt inferior to other classes playing without it.

My last build during MYM was a high magicka build with Necropotence + Lich/Warlock backbar + Master's Inferno + Balorgh with Arcane jewels, not using graveyard. It still felt tanky and hugely impactful. Coordinating the dmg boost from master's and balorgh with colossus and bbones was wrecking people.

My main annoyance with the class is the fact that pets don't count as your dmg/heals in battlegrounds, thus affecting your score, and that magicka blastbones doesn't have a useful morph effect at all. Otherwise the class is fine harmony or no.

Ever since I've read the patch notes I decided to drop harmony and put my harmony stuff in a chest until we see what happens. My current build is new moon, torugs pact and valkyn skoria. No graveyard. It is a very good build and I solo world bosses with it and do very well with it in PvP. It isn't even close to how fun harmony necro was. Anyways, despite my current build working very well I still struggle A LOT with the top tier classes (Magsorc, StamDK, Stamsorc, Stamblade, Stamcro).
Magsorc, Stamdk, Stamsorc and Stamcro are just extremly tanky and very hard to pull off a huge burst combo on, and usually it will bring them to half health if you're lucky. Not to mention all the stamDPS except stamblade and stamsorc just spam dizzying swings into execute, when they come close to you you're basically dead or on your backbar spamming heals hoping that they will run out of stamina. Stamblade deals huge dmg and cloak is very annoying. Magplars are usually ok to deal with unless they're good since they're not very tanky and rely a lot on their heals. Allowing me to deal some big burst dmg.

Anyways, Im not saying that if you play magcro you will just be a burden. What I'm saying is that there's always another class that can do something better than you. As long as the player is good you can pull off magcro, but you will be doing much better on other classes. Im also sure you did well with balorghs but remember that not everyone has access to it since it is locked behind a dlc paywall. But yeah Balorgh and necrosmash work really well together even without harmony.

You struggle to deal damage against Magsorcs and Stamdks? Maybe stop playing a full survive bot?
I find this quite laughable. DK without wings has high spell resistence, but no % mititgations that would make them particularly hard to deal with. It's just the way they build. They are not hard to take out by nature.

And Magsorc is the easiest class to destroy unless they just run away from you and you have no gap closers. All I can imagine, is that you play one of those builds that are afraid to die but then can't kill anyone solid.

These are both by no means tanky classes especially this update, I suppose when you run around in 2 defensive sets these are the trade offs for essentially running a tank

Since when was new moon and torugs pact defensive sets?

FrancisCrawford

Merciful17 wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

what_the wrote: »

Selot wrote: »

My main character is the magicka necromancer and I regret it. If I knew how awful the magicka necromancer is, I would NEVER play it. Now I am thinking about changing my main character and forgetting about necromancers forever.

You clearly need to move on to another class, the Magcro is not for you/not your play style, and that's ok, different strokes and all.
I'll keep mine, as I can put out damage/heals and survive as well as/better than any of my other mag toons. ☠☠☠

Magcro is awesome for soloing, but if you play PvP or do trials and vet dungeons you'll quickly notice how much better every single class is. The only reason to play Magcro in a trial or dungeon is because of their ultimate.

I was actually thinking of dusting off my magcro and healing dungeons with her. The trigger for the idea is that magcros will be able to proc Elemental Catalyst on an AoE more easily than other classes (any magicka class can of course proc it single-target w/ Force Shock). The debuff from the burst heal may not matter much. AoE Breach/Fracture is a good thing. So basically, Magcro looks like a strong class for support in trash fights. Indeed, sustain could even be decent when enemies are dying all over the place, not that sustain should matter in most trash scenarios.

The problem, of course, is that magcro sustain is bad in boss fights. And those of us who don't like to chug expensive pots also regret the lack of Major Sorcery or Major Prophecy.

Magcros make good off-supports, but in trials their heals just aren't good enough. Mainly because they need a corpse on the ground all the time to be able to put out decent healing. I remember playing nCR and both of our healers were necromancers. Basically half the team was dead all the time lol. Their ultimates are really good but other than that templar and warden beat them in every single way.

Necros have a single-target class heal comparable to Templars', which doesn't require a corpse. So should I presume that one or more Templar AoE class heals are important in trials? Extended Ritual in particular?

The only semi-important things templar has that necro doesn't is a large area synergy purge (ritual) and the Mending, Sacred Ground, and Master Ritualist passives (all raw healing numbers and res speed). Non-things to grumble about in the grand scheme when necro has plenty utility to offer in their place.

They also have a great abilitiy that restores both stamina and magicka to their teammates by a synergy. Don't forget they also have a passive that grants them and their group minor sorcery via illuminate, which lasts for 20 secs.

How many people in trials are still getting their synergy from Luminous Shards, rather than Orb?

(Actually, the answer probably depends a lot on player positioning during fights ...)

Merciful17

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

what_the wrote: »

Selot wrote: »

My main character is the magicka necromancer and I regret it. If I knew how awful the magicka necromancer is, I would NEVER play it. Now I am thinking about changing my main character and forgetting about necromancers forever.

You clearly need to move on to another class, the Magcro is not for you/not your play style, and that's ok, different strokes and all.
I'll keep mine, as I can put out damage/heals and survive as well as/better than any of my other mag toons. ☠☠☠

Magcro is awesome for soloing, but if you play PvP or do trials and vet dungeons you'll quickly notice how much better every single class is. The only reason to play Magcro in a trial or dungeon is because of their ultimate.

I was actually thinking of dusting off my magcro and healing dungeons with her. The trigger for the idea is that magcros will be able to proc Elemental Catalyst on an AoE more easily than other classes (any magicka class can of course proc it single-target w/ Force Shock). The debuff from the burst heal may not matter much. AoE Breach/Fracture is a good thing. So basically, Magcro looks like a strong class for support in trash fights. Indeed, sustain could even be decent when enemies are dying all over the place, not that sustain should matter in most trash scenarios.

The problem, of course, is that magcro sustain is bad in boss fights. And those of us who don't like to chug expensive pots also regret the lack of Major Sorcery or Major Prophecy.

Magcros make good off-supports, but in trials their heals just aren't good enough. Mainly because they need a corpse on the ground all the time to be able to put out decent healing. I remember playing nCR and both of our healers were necromancers. Basically half the team was dead all the time lol. Their ultimates are really good but other than that templar and warden beat them in every single way.

Necros have a single-target class heal comparable to Templars', which doesn't require a corpse. So should I presume that one or more Templar AoE class heals are important in trials? Extended Ritual in particular?

The only semi-important things templar has that necro doesn't is a large area synergy purge (ritual) and the Mending, Sacred Ground, and Master Ritualist passives (all raw healing numbers and res speed). Non-things to grumble about in the grand scheme when necro has plenty utility to offer in their place.

They also have a great abilitiy that restores both stamina and magicka to their teammates by a synergy. Don't forget they also have a passive that grants them and their group minor sorcery via illuminate, which lasts for 20 secs.

How many people in trials are still getting their synergy from Luminous Shards, rather than Orb?

(Actually, the answer probably depends a lot on player positioning during fights ...)

Personally I find the shards way better since you can aim it where you want it to go. I'm not all too good when it comes to trial heals but when I heal I usually stand a bit in the back and spam combat prayer, shards and try to proc illuminate. Anyways, I think using shards and orb together is probably best. Oh and shards also proc olorime, unlike the orb. Not really relevant since you'll probably have more than one aimable ground ability as a healer but it's still nice.

FrancisCrawford

Thanks. I've healed most dungeons in the game, but I've never done a trial. So I'm used to my destro bar being pretty much for damage. E.g. Crushing Shock which also interrupts, Reflective Light which also procs passives, Spear/Shards, Blockade, and maybe not even Elemental Drain because I have Siphon Spirit on the resto bar instead.

I gather trial healing is rather different from that.

Merciful17 wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Merciful17 wrote: »

what_the wrote: »

Selot wrote: »

My main character is the magicka necromancer and I regret it. If I knew how awful the magicka necromancer is, I would NEVER play it. Now I am thinking about changing my main character and forgetting about necromancers forever.

You clearly need to move on to another class, the Magcro is not for you/not your play style, and that's ok, different strokes and all.
I'll keep mine, as I can put out damage/heals and survive as well as/better than any of my other mag toons. ☠☠☠

Magcro is awesome for soloing, but if you play PvP or do trials and vet dungeons you'll quickly notice how much better every single class is. The only reason to play Magcro in a trial or dungeon is because of their ultimate.

I was actually thinking of dusting off my magcro and healing dungeons with her. The trigger for the idea is that magcros will be able to proc Elemental Catalyst on an AoE more easily than other classes (any magicka class can of course proc it single-target w/ Force Shock). The debuff from the burst heal may not matter much. AoE Breach/Fracture is a good thing. So basically, Magcro looks like a strong class for support in trash fights. Indeed, sustain could even be decent when enemies are dying all over the place, not that sustain should matter in most trash scenarios.

The problem, of course, is that magcro sustain is bad in boss fights. And those of us who don't like to chug expensive pots also regret the lack of Major Sorcery or Major Prophecy.

Magcros make good off-supports, but in trials their heals just aren't good enough. Mainly because they need a corpse on the ground all the time to be able to put out decent healing. I remember playing nCR and both of our healers were necromancers. Basically half the team was dead all the time lol. Their ultimates are really good but other than that templar and warden beat them in every single way.

Necros have a single-target class heal comparable to Templars', which doesn't require a corpse. So should I presume that one or more Templar AoE class heals are important in trials? Extended Ritual in particular?

The only semi-important things templar has that necro doesn't is a large area synergy purge (ritual) and the Mending, Sacred Ground, and Master Ritualist passives (all raw healing numbers and res speed). Non-things to grumble about in the grand scheme when necro has plenty utility to offer in their place.

They also have a great abilitiy that restores both stamina and magicka to their teammates by a synergy. Don't forget they also have a passive that grants them and their group minor sorcery via illuminate, which lasts for 20 secs.

How many people in trials are still getting their synergy from Luminous Shards, rather than Orb?

(Actually, the answer probably depends a lot on player positioning during fights ...)

Personally I find the shards way better since you can aim it where you want it to go. I'm not all too good when it comes to trial heals but when I heal I usually stand a bit in the back and spam combat prayer, shards and try to proc illuminate. Anyways, I think using shards and orb together is probably best. Oh and shards also proc olorime, unlike the orb. Not really relevant since you'll probably have more than one aimable ground ability as a healer but it's still nice.