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BIG OVERSIGHT: War Maiden buffed, while stam equivalent untouched?
splitsand
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As the title says, War Maiden is an exact copy of the set Strength of the Automaton found in Darkshade Caverns.
Here is War Maiden on Live:
(2 items) Adds 833 Spell Critical
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items ) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(5 items ) Adds 400 Spell Damage to your Magic Damage abilities.
The 5 piece bonus has been buffed to 600 Spell Damage to your Magic Damage abilities on the PTS
Here is Strength of the Automaton on Live:
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) Adds 400 Weapon Damage to your Physical Damage abilities.
As you have seen this patch sets have been balanced around certain parameters, with one of them being "to better mirror the power of X set". A good example of this was the False God's Devotion change that saw it's extra 5th piece bonus removed to "mirror" the exact same stats as it's stam equivalent.
I feel like this was most likely an accidental oversight, but Automaton needs to be adjusted up to the current standards of non stat sheet buffed weapon damage.
Edited by splitsand on July 19, 2020 1:44PM Here is War Maiden on Live:
(2 items) Adds 833 Spell Critical
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items ) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(5 items ) Adds 400 Spell Damage to your Magic Damage abilities.
The 5 piece bonus has been buffed to 600 Spell Damage to your Magic Damage abilities on the PTS
Here is Strength of the Automaton on Live:
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) Adds 400 Weapon Damage to your Physical Damage abilities.
As you have seen this patch sets have been balanced around certain parameters, with one of them being "to better mirror the power of X set". A good example of this was the False God's Devotion change that saw it's extra 5th piece bonus removed to "mirror" the exact same stats as it's stam equivalent.
I feel like this was most likely an accidental oversight, but Automaton needs to be adjusted up to the current standards of non stat sheet buffed weapon damage.
4
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susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Any set of the elemental/damage types that affect light attack/heavy attack has not been buffed. The poison/disease equilavent set, has been buffed.6 -
splitsand✭✭✭Any set of the elemental/damage types that affect light attack/heavy attack has not been buffed. The poison/disease equilavent set, has been buffed.
If that's the case than it seems like making it only work on active abilities is an easy fix. Bring it up to 600 weapon damage and have it only affect skills. No reason to get hung up on something so minor.
Let's also not forget about this set, which still blows the two of them out of the water:
Elemental Succession
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(5 items) Whenever you deal Flame, Shock, or Frost Damage, you gain 550 Spell Damage for that element for 4 seconds. This effect can occur every 4 seconds per element. You can have multiple different elemental buffs active simultaneously.Edited by splitsand on July 19, 2020 1:52PM0 -
lucky_Sage✭✭✭✭✭Not just stam ones silks netch the frost one all wasn’t punched eitherDC PC NA
Magdk - main
Stamcro - alt
AD PS4 NA -retired (PC runs way better to play on console)
magdk
magblade
stamplar
magden
magsorc3 -
Sahidom✭✭✭✭I don't feel its an oversight when medium armor increases weapon damge by a flat percentage; whereas, its known fact its harder to stack spell damage to comparable levels with light armor.6
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splitsand✭✭✭I don't feel its an oversight when medium armor increases weapon damge by a flat percentage; whereas, its known fact its harder to stack spell damage to comparable levels with light armor.
I don't think it's fair that the sharpened trait, breach, spinners, destro passives, etc get pen when it is easier to get pen on magicka classes.
This is severe sarcasm if you couldn't tell.Edited by splitsand on July 19, 2020 3:37PM4 -
driosketch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Any set of the elemental/damage types that affect light attack/heavy attack has not been buffed. The poison/disease equilavent set, has been buffed.
Does Automaton boost light attacks?If that's the case than it seems like making it only work on active abilities is an easy fix. Bring it up to 600 weapon damage and have it only affect skills.
Because if it does, it might be better to leave it as is. Not sure you would want an extra 200 bonus to your abilities while losing 400 on your light attack weave.
Main: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●1 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭driosketch wrote: »Any set of the elemental/damage types that affect light attack/heavy attack has not been buffed. The poison/disease equilavent set, has been buffed.
Does Automaton boost light attacks?If that's the case than it seems like making it only work on active abilities is an easy fix. Bring it up to 600 weapon damage and have it only affect skills.
Because if it does, it might be better to leave it as is. Not sure you would want an extra 200 bonus to your abilities while losing 400 on your light attack weave.
Yes it does. It's like Silk's of the Sun but for phys dmg. It boosts everything. And Silks have not been buffed to 600 flame dmg for that precise reason. Otherwise every mag DK would be running that and it would be superior to BSW, NMA, Elemental Succession... even Siroria.Edited by Maulkin on July 19, 2020 4:19PMEU | PC | AD0 -
driosketch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭driosketch wrote: »Any set of the elemental/damage types that affect light attack/heavy attack has not been buffed. The poison/disease equilavent set, has been buffed.
Does Automaton boost light attacks?If that's the case than it seems like making it only work on active abilities is an easy fix. Bring it up to 600 weapon damage and have it only affect skills.
Because if it does, it might be better to leave it as is. Not sure you would want an extra 200 bonus to your abilities while losing 400 on your light attack weave.
Yes it does. It's like Silk's of the Sun but for phys dmg. It boosts everything. And Silks have not been buffed to 600 flame dmg for that precise reason. Otherwise every mag DK would be running that and it would be superior to BSW, NMA, Elemental Succession... even Siroria.
Then this is not an oversight, but ZOS fixing one when they first did a flat 400 across the board. Have to say, I'm glad they decided to buff War Maiden rather than nerf the rest.Main: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●2 -
MurderMostFoul✭✭✭✭✭
✭Agreed!
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/537092/omission#latest
Automaton should get a buff too!“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭driosketch wrote: »driosketch wrote: »Any set of the elemental/damage types that affect light attack/heavy attack has not been buffed. The poison/disease equilavent set, has been buffed.
Does Automaton boost light attacks?If that's the case than it seems like making it only work on active abilities is an easy fix. Bring it up to 600 weapon damage and have it only affect skills.
Because if it does, it might be better to leave it as is. Not sure you would want an extra 200 bonus to your abilities while losing 400 on your light attack weave.
Yes it does. It's like Silk's of the Sun but for phys dmg. It boosts everything. And Silks have not been buffed to 600 flame dmg for that precise reason. Otherwise every mag DK would be running that and it would be superior to BSW, NMA, Elemental Succession... even Siroria.
Then this is not an oversight, but ZOS fixing one when they first did a flat 400 across the board. Have to say, I'm glad they decided to buff War Maiden rather than nerf the rest.
Yep it's not an oversight, it's intended. They wanted to buff niche sets where the damage type only applies to some skills. Not buff things like Fire and Phys Dmg which are ubiquitous. That would be too much of a buff for classes that can build for only that type of damage (like MagDK and StamSorc).
I think OP made a suggestion that it should be buffed to 600 wpn/sp. dmg. but exclude light attacks. That would make Automaton the most potent set for Trash AOE by a mile, outclassing NMA by 120 wpn dmg and with no drawbacks. Since quite a few stam builds are basically using Hail, Caltrops, FlawDawn and then spam Brawler for cleave damage... all of which is phys dmg. It wouldn't be very balanced.Edited by Maulkin on July 19, 2020 11:13PMEU | PC | AD0 -
Runefang✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭driosketch wrote: »driosketch wrote: »Any set of the elemental/damage types that affect light attack/heavy attack has not been buffed. The poison/disease equilavent set, has been buffed.
Does Automaton boost light attacks?If that's the case than it seems like making it only work on active abilities is an easy fix. Bring it up to 600 weapon damage and have it only affect skills.
Because if it does, it might be better to leave it as is. Not sure you would want an extra 200 bonus to your abilities while losing 400 on your light attack weave.
Yes it does. It's like Silk's of the Sun but for phys dmg. It boosts everything. And Silks have not been buffed to 600 flame dmg for that precise reason. Otherwise every mag DK would be running that and it would be superior to BSW, NMA, Elemental Succession... even Siroria.
Then this is not an oversight, but ZOS fixing one when they first did a flat 400 across the board. Have to say, I'm glad they decided to buff War Maiden rather than nerf the rest.
Yep it's not an oversight, it's intended. They wanted to buff niche sets where the damage type only applies to some skills. Not buff things like Fire and Phys Dmg which are ubiquitous.
I think OP made a suggestion that it should be buffed to 600 wpn/sp. dmg. but exclude light attacks. That would make Automaton the most potent set for Trash AOE by a mile, outclassing NMA by 120 wpn dmg and with no drawbacks. Since stam builds are basically using Hail, Caltrops, FlawDawn and then spam Brawler... all of which is phys dmg. It wouldn't be very balanced.
Light attacks are also not as important to stam as they are to mag. That buff would make stam sorcs the top stam dps in an instant.0 -
splitsand✭✭✭driosketch wrote: »driosketch wrote: »Any set of the elemental/damage types that affect light attack/heavy attack has not been buffed. The poison/disease equilavent set, has been buffed.
Does Automaton boost light attacks?If that's the case than it seems like making it only work on active abilities is an easy fix. Bring it up to 600 weapon damage and have it only affect skills.
Because if it does, it might be better to leave it as is. Not sure you would want an extra 200 bonus to your abilities while losing 400 on your light attack weave.
Yes it does. It's like Silk's of the Sun but for phys dmg. It boosts everything. And Silks have not been buffed to 600 flame dmg for that precise reason. Otherwise every mag DK would be running that and it would be superior to BSW, NMA, Elemental Succession... even Siroria.
Then this is not an oversight, but ZOS fixing one when they first did a flat 400 across the board. Have to say, I'm glad they decided to buff War Maiden rather than nerf the rest.
Yep it's not an oversight, it's intended. They wanted to buff niche sets where the damage type only applies to some skills. Not buff things like Fire and Phys Dmg which are ubiquitous. That would be too much of a buff for classes that can build for only that type of damage (like MagDK and StamSorc).
I think OP made a suggestion that it should be buffed to 600 wpn/sp. dmg. but exclude light attacks. That would make Automaton the most potent set for Trash AOE by a mile, outclassing NMA by 120 wpn dmg and with no drawbacks. Since quite a few stam builds are basically using Hail, Caltrops, FlawDawn and then spam Brawler for cleave damage... all of which is phys dmg. It wouldn't be very balanced.
The drawback is no light attacks, no buffs to healing, no buffs to skills that aren't physical, glyphs, poisons, etc. There is always going to be a "BiS' set for any niche situation in the game. Automaton is a set that see's ZERO use in the game currently. It lags completely behind all usable stam sets.
It is also not a "proc" so you have to have the 5pc on to benefit from it at all. The set I mentioned earlier "Elemental Succession" is 550 for the element you do damage with....all elements can be active at the same time...100% of the time and can be used as a front bar set. Seems like that set is quite bis for a lot of situations, but you don't see anyone complaining about it because it's very situational.Edited by splitsand on July 19, 2020 11:27PM2 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Light attacks are also not as important to stam as they are to mag. That buff would make stam sorcs the top stam dps in an instant.
Not as important as to mag? Correct, because of Maelstro Staff. But very important still. Especially on any build that uses Wrecking Blow for Empowered light attacks *cough* stamsorcs *cough*.
It would make stamsorcs best cleavers like I said, but not best single target DPS. On my Stamsorc LAs are my top dps skill, on par with WB doing about 15% of dps. Then there's also the Atro Zap (6%), Relequen (11%) and poisons/enchants (2.5%) all of which would not be buffed Automaton. That's over 1/3 of your dps not affected by your 5-piece set. So I don't think that would work out as a good set to wear for parsing.
EU | PC | AD0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It is also not a "proc" so you have to have the 5pc on to benefit from it at all. The set I mentioned earlier "Elemental Succession" is 550 for the element you do damage with....all elements can be active at the same time...100% of the time and can be used as a front bar set. Seems like that set is quite bis for a lot of situations, but you don't see anyone complaining about it because it's very situational.
For the record I don't think Succession is balanced. I think the reason people are not complaining, is because hardly anyone is using it. And the reason why hardly anyone is using it since it got buffed is because:
a) it was bugged and had a longer cooldown than mentioned. But mostly
b) it's an absolute pain in the crack to farm.
I mean you have to go into a solo dungeon (i.e. no shared drops) again and again and again and most often you drop no pieces for it. Only those stupid Permafrost, Glory and Hunt sets. I swear putting together perfected False God and Siroria was much quicker. I have run vMA about 30 times since Greymoor and I only have like 3 pieces of it.
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Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
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False equivalence.I don't feel its an oversight when medium armor increases weapon damge by a flat percentage; whereas, its known fact its harder to stack spell damage to comparable levels with light armor.
I don't think it's fair that the sharpened trait, breach, spinners, destro passives, etc get pen when it is easier to get pen on magicka classes.
This is severe sarcasm if you couldn't tell.
If the light armor passive buffed penetration by 15% like the medium armor passive buffs weapon damage, then you'd have a valid point — but it doesn't, so you don't.0 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The fact that Automaton would apply to Light Attacks is well-noted, but magBlades and magPlars have nearly all of their class skills (at least IIRC) as generic Magic Damage and thus benefit mightily from these changes, especially in PvP where you don't have to worry about Wall of Elements.
The elephant in the room with these changes is that... these sets weren't used before and that's why they're being buffed now. The buffed sets have potentially been saved but by not buffing the other sets, ZOS is implicitly consigning them to permanent irrelevance, an irrelevance that they are apparently already aware of, and, judging by their actions, they approve of.
Which is highly bizarre.0 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭1. They probably just missed those sets on accident, no need to start WW3 over it.
2. Regardless these sets will remain irrelevant.
3. They should just make these sets give a %dmg increase to their specific element, you're welcome.1 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As others pointed out, it’s not really an fair comparison to look at the magnitude of War Maiden and Automaton. There isn’t a single weapon skill in the game that deals magic damage, and the only magic based light and heavy attacks are from a healing staff. Physical damage is the core of 4/6 weapon skill lines, light and heavy attacks these weapon types, and several class and non-class skills.
If any comparison is going to be made, I would say Fire damage and Silks of the Sun is much more similar to Automaton than War Maiden. Although even Silks of the Sun cannot realistically reach 100% of damage done since it doesn’t affect Mystic Orb.1 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »As others pointed out, it’s not really an fair comparison to look at the magnitude of War Maiden and Automaton. There isn’t a single weapon skill in the game that deals magic damage, and the only magic based light and heavy attacks are from a healing staff. Physical damage is the core of 4/6 weapon skill lines, light and heavy attacks these weapon types, and several class and non-class skills.
If any comparison is going to be made, I would say Fire damage and Silks of the Sun is much more similar to Automaton than War Maiden. Although even Silks of the Sun cannot realistically reach 100% of damage done since it doesn’t affect Mystic Orb.
But this still doesn't address the fact that simply leaving the 400-level sets as they are is a direct endorsement of their current uselessness.
Why bother to raise up half of those sets and leave the other half as deconstruction fodder? As @Firstmep said, they should revisit the entire design of these sets rather than leave them in useless condition. I personally love their idea for adding an X% increase to elemental damage rather than the current flat damage model.0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭These sets are not as comparable as the OP is making them out to be. There are a lot more physical damage abilities than magic damage. For ex. everything a elemental staff (all three) fires is not an elemental attack and thus useless when wearing this set whereas everything a 2H hits is a physical attack and thus would be buffed by the automaton set.Edited by Joy_Division on July 20, 2020 8:54PM1 -
MurderMostFoul✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »These sets are not as comparable as the OP is making them out to be. There are a lot more physical damage abilities than magic damage. For ex. everything a elemental staff (all three) fires is not an elemental attack and thus useless when wearing this set whereas everything a 2H hits is a physical attack and thus would be buffed by the automaton set.
So make it 500 WD.“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”0 -
Wuerstal✭✭✭Any set of the elemental/damage types that affect light attack/heavy attack has not been buffed. The poison/disease equilavent set, has been buffed.
Let's also not forget about this set, which still blows the two of them out of the water:
Elemental Succession
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(5 items) Whenever you deal Flame, Shock, or Frost Damage, you gain 550 Spell Damage for that element for 4 seconds. This effect can occur every 4 seconds per element. You can have multiple different elemental buffs active simultaneously.
Yeah... so the patchnotes do not mention anything about it (nor do the notes on patch 6.1.1) but elemental succession got nerfed a bit. It is now only 490 spell damage (alteast on the pts).0