The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Venomous Smite in PvP
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Somewhere✭✭✭✭From v 6.0.5 notesMonster Masks
Developer Comment:
Monster Masks have been updated to be more comparable to 5 piece sets in regards to our set bonus efficiency standards. While most are value adjustments, a few sets have received larger adjustments to either bring them in line with intended fantasies or to improve their flexibility in use cases.
Venomous smite is just a better version of Grothdarr really. Which seems odd because ZOS has been balancing monster sets and 5-pc sets to be on the same power level. I mean look at the tooltips:
Dealing Critical Damage inflicts Hunter's Venom on your enemy for 10 seconds, dealing 2241 Poison Damage to your target and nearby enemies every 1 second. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.
vs
When you deal damage, you have a 10% chance to create lava pools that swirl around you, dealing 1800 Flame Damage to all enemies within 8 meters of you every 1 second for 5 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
Just in their basic forms Hunter's Venom deals more damage and has a longer duration with a higher uptime and not only that, you can apply it from range. With grothdarr your opponent always has the option to get out of the aoe, how easy that is depends on the two players, but with hunter's venom? Nah, that's stuck on you unless you've got a purge on your bar, and so your allies are also taking the damage too.
I'll concede that a 5-pc should probably be a bit stronger than a 2-pc, but to this degree? The face that it's a pbaoe that travels with the target is already really good. In my opinion either the uptime should be reduced to Grothdarr levels, so a 50% uptime by default, or its damage should be reduced by about 15% to bring it in line with another set.3 -
The set is so bad that even people that wear it in no-cp PvP feel bad for wearing it..........2 -
BaiterOfZergs✭✭✭✭✭precambria wrote: »The tooltip isn't even written correctly so it doesn't show that its like 30k damage in an aoe with no flight time, look at the other dot procs in the game than look at that one. It's at least TWICE as much damage as it should be if compared with other sets.
I mean after battlespirit and mitigation it will hit for about 1k a sec, wich is not bad, but its hardly the issue by itself.
Imho they should reduce the duration on the set.
In other patches I think 1k a sec wouldn’t be that bad but this update with people vigor only hitting for 1k plus I’m not entirely sure.
Zerg of House Smallscale, First of his name, wielder of Volendrung, battleground hero, Cyrodiil butcher, the swifft footed, OG of the Templars and first pvpers, defender of scrolls and baiter of zergs.0 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭BaiterOfZergs wrote: »precambria wrote: »The tooltip isn't even written correctly so it doesn't show that its like 30k damage in an aoe with no flight time, look at the other dot procs in the game than look at that one. It's at least TWICE as much damage as it should be if compared with other sets.
I mean after battlespirit and mitigation it will hit for about 1k a sec, wich is not bad, but its hardly the issue by itself.
Imho they should reduce the duration on the set.
In other patches I think 1k a sec wouldn’t be that bad but this update with people vigor only hitting for 1k plus I’m not entirely sure.
To be fair so few ppl use blackrose destro and it deals way more damage than venomous, maelstrom 2h does similar damage as well.
But yeah it all adds up.
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Metemsycosis✭✭✭✭Yes but the cool down too.Terethea Magdalena, Breton Nightblade
A Dark-Adapted Eye, Imperial Necromancer
sanguinare vampiris
https://m.twitch.tv/amcrenshaw/profile0 -
allan0n✭✭✭So I got cc'd in the water today and ate that proc for 11k granted i wasnt buff at all and in medium, so curious what its hitting for you guys buffed up?
[snip]
Iam running squishy nighblade build and never seen this proc hits me for more than 6-7k overall damage, calurion does much more pressure to the target due to instant damage. Never died to it (easy to outheal 10 seconds periodic damage, slow af), but this damage has been inluded in the counter just an additional source of damage, not main one by far.
Tried that set, saw 600-700 ticks against plars/tardens and went back to spriggan.
It works well for bursting squishy targets with meh self healing only and fighting against ballgroups due to aoe damage, [snip]
Best post in the thread in context. [Snip]
There are more powerful proc sets for PvP in the game. No need to rush out and nerf this new set just because it's NEWer and seeing more play.
[Snip] that led to Bloospawn OVERNERF, Pirate Skel OVERNERF, etc. Sometimes I think these nerf-herders are working for ZOS, FB friends etc., trying to help rationalize unnecessarily shaking up the game with nerfs to keep people playing more to regear, regrind etc.
[Edited for bait]
Gee, I wonder why the class that can completely ignore the damage from this set with cloak doesn't see why people are complaining about it...but yeah..sure. Best post in the thread.
Edited by ZOS_Volpe on July 14, 2020 6:09PM3 -
ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's just one dot, lol.precambria wrote: »The tooltip isn't even written correctly so it doesn't show that its like 30k damage in an aoe with no flight time, look at the other dot procs in the game than look at that one. It's at least TWICE as much damage as it should be if compared with other sets.
30k tooltip damage over 15 seconds is equal to the same tooltip damage as two dswings. It's also about equal to Venomous Claw. Again, it's just one dot. Dots are hilariously weak in ESO, so try healing.
Rending with Master DW also has about the same tooltip as this set, but can be used every ~11 seconds, so it's more effective dps.
edit:
This is what you guys are complaining about. I put together a dot build with this set and hit a dummy and it's.. 5% of my damage. It doesn't even out damage rending with master dw or venomous claw. This isn't sloads where it completely ignores mitigation and has 100% uptime, it's just a relatively strong dot that ticks over 10s. The old master dw before bleeds were nerfed, along with axe bleeds, were way way stronger than this ever was. Even the old carve that caused a bleed was better because that ignored mitigation too.
What do you give up for running this set? In my case could run Tzogvin's on 2h bar instead and get minor force, 10% more crit on both bars, and 1400 pen. Or I could have a dot. Tough choice.Edited by ecru on July 13, 2020 5:06AMGryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer1 -
FirmamentOfStars✭✭✭✭✭It's just one dot, lol.precambria wrote: »The tooltip isn't even written correctly so it doesn't show that its like 30k damage in an aoe with no flight time, look at the other dot procs in the game than look at that one. It's at least TWICE as much damage as it should be if compared with other sets.
30k tooltip damage over 15 seconds is equal to the same tooltip damage as two dswings. It's also about equal to Venomous Claw. Again, it's just one dot. Dots are hilariously weak in ESO, so try healing.
Rending with Master DW also has about the same tooltip as this set, but can be used every ~11 seconds, so it's more effective dps.
edit:
This is what you guys are complaining about. I put together a dot build with this set and hit a dummy and it's.. 5% of my damage. It doesn't even out damage rending with master dw or venomous claw. This isn't sloads where it completely ignores mitigation and has 100% uptime, it's just a relatively strong dot that ticks over 10s. The old master dw before bleeds were nerfed, along with axe bleeds, were way way stronger than this ever was. Even the old carve that caused a bleed was better because that ignored mitigation too.
What do you give up for running this set? In my case could run Tzogvin's on 2h bar instead and get minor force, 10% more crit on both bars, and 1400 pen. Or I could have a dot. Tough choice.
Pls use overwhelming in a dummy parse too and tell us all its ***...
Dummy parses are not at all comparable with PvP and most damage proc sets perform weak in a parse, meanwhile they are strong in PvP. Your whole statement therefore does not make sense.
The set hits harder than most dots and most proc sets applying a dot. Also the damage is pretty mich unavoidable for the primary target and even is AoE damage.
The sets is another cuplrit of players performing better than they are, because the set approximately does 15-20% of a players dps in a 1v1. If you add another damage proc set or two, 40-60% of the players damage is caused by the sets and not the player himself. To me this looks like a great indicator for dumbing the game down for new players and makes skilled gameplay irrelevant, since you perform better using proc sets.8 -
ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭SavageChain wrote: »It's just one dot, lol.precambria wrote: »The tooltip isn't even written correctly so it doesn't show that its like 30k damage in an aoe with no flight time, look at the other dot procs in the game than look at that one. It's at least TWICE as much damage as it should be if compared with other sets.
30k tooltip damage over 15 seconds is equal to the same tooltip damage as two dswings. It's also about equal to Venomous Claw. Again, it's just one dot. Dots are hilariously weak in ESO, so try healing.
Rending with Master DW also has about the same tooltip as this set, but can be used every ~11 seconds, so it's more effective dps.
edit:
This is what you guys are complaining about. I put together a dot build with this set and hit a dummy and it's.. 5% of my damage. It doesn't even out damage rending with master dw or venomous claw. This isn't sloads where it completely ignores mitigation and has 100% uptime, it's just a relatively strong dot that ticks over 10s. The old master dw before bleeds were nerfed, along with axe bleeds, were way way stronger than this ever was. Even the old carve that caused a bleed was better because that ignored mitigation too.
What do you give up for running this set? In my case could run Tzogvin's on 2h bar instead and get minor force, 10% more crit on both bars, and 1400 pen. Or I could have a dot. Tough choice.
Pls use overwhelming in a dummy parse too and tell us all its ***...
Dummy parses are not at all comparable with PvP and most damage proc sets perform weak in a parse, meanwhile they are strong in PvP. Your whole statement therefore does not make sense.
The set hits harder than most dots and most proc sets applying a dot. Also the damage is pretty mich unavoidable for the primary target and even is AoE damage.
The sets is another cuplrit of players performing better than they are, because the set approximately does 15-20% of a players dps in a 1v1. If you add another damage proc set or two, 40-60% of the players damage is caused by the sets and not the player himself. To me this looks like a great indicator for dumbing the game down for new players and makes skilled gameplay irrelevant, since you perform better using proc sets.
Is venomous claw strong in pvp? Not really. Are people complaining about master dw, which does even more damage than this set? The average damage per tick (every 2 seconds) from rending is more than twice as high as the ticks from venomous smite, and rending also has a direct damage component, so over 10 seconds it's much more damage than this set, and it can be applied more often than once every 15 seconds. Should we nerf master dw even more? The blood craze morph heals too, which makes it sound really OP, I wonder why literally everyone isn't using it?
It hits harder than most dots, so what? Most dots are complete trash. Rending without master dw is garbage, Venomous Claw is extremely weak until the last few ticks, etc. I'm glad it's better than most dots because (again) most dots are terrible abilities. That means it's actually useful. Over 10 seconds, including it's direct damage hits, Rending only does 20% more damage than a single hit of dizzy without master dw. If you want it reduced to the "strength" of a normal dot, it'll be forgotten about just like almost every other set that barely tickles opponents.
If I used that setup in a duel, claw and blood craze would do more damage than the proc. Would you still be complaining about it?Edited by ecru on July 13, 2020 10:10AMGryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer0 -
biminirwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Hit someone with Focused Aim with this set on a stealthed NB in a Keep, paired with Deadly Strike and watch the fun.
51m stun and DoT, great way to make the group spread.
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Concrete✭✭✭Really only helps counter healing buffs on groups. Think maybe once or twice have I killed anyone with 'hunters venom'1 -
Red99✭✭✭SavageChain wrote: »It's just one dot, lol.precambria wrote: »The tooltip isn't even written correctly so it doesn't show that its like 30k damage in an aoe with no flight time, look at the other dot procs in the game than look at that one. It's at least TWICE as much damage as it should be if compared with other sets.
30k tooltip damage over 15 seconds is equal to the same tooltip damage as two dswings. It's also about equal to Venomous Claw. Again, it's just one dot. Dots are hilariously weak in ESO, so try healing.
Rending with Master DW also has about the same tooltip as this set, but can be used every ~11 seconds, so it's more effective dps.
edit:
This is what you guys are complaining about. I put together a dot build with this set and hit a dummy and it's.. 5% of my damage. It doesn't even out damage rending with master dw or venomous claw. This isn't sloads where it completely ignores mitigation and has 100% uptime, it's just a relatively strong dot that ticks over 10s. The old master dw before bleeds were nerfed, along with axe bleeds, were way way stronger than this ever was. Even the old carve that caused a bleed was better because that ignored mitigation too.
What do you give up for running this set? In my case could run Tzogvin's on 2h bar instead and get minor force, 10% more crit on both bars, and 1400 pen. Or I could have a dot. Tough choice.
Pls use overwhelming in a dummy parse too and tell us all its ***...
Dummy parses are not at all comparable with PvP and most damage proc sets perform weak in a parse, meanwhile they are strong in PvP. Your whole statement therefore does not make sense.
The set hits harder than most dots and most proc sets applying a dot. Also the damage is pretty mich unavoidable for the primary target and even is AoE damage.
The sets is another cuplrit of players performing better than they are, because the set approximately does 15-20% of a players dps in a 1v1. If you add another damage proc set or two, 40-60% of the players damage is caused by the sets and not the player himself. To me this looks like a great indicator for dumbing the game down for new players and makes skilled gameplay irrelevant, since you perform better using proc sets.
Is venomous claw strong in pvp? Not really. Are people complaining about master dw, which does even more damage than this set? The average damage per tick (every 2 seconds) from rending is more than twice as high as the ticks from venomous smite, and rending also has a direct damage component, so over 10 seconds it's much more damage than this set, and it can be applied more often than once every 15 seconds. Should we nerf master dw even more? The blood craze morph heals too, which makes it sound really OP, I wonder why literally everyone isn't using it?
It hits harder than most dots, so what? Most dots are complete trash. Rending without master dw is garbage, Venomous Claw is extremely weak until the last few ticks, etc. I'm glad it's better than most dots because (again) most dots are terrible abilities. That means it's actually useful. Over 10 seconds, including it's direct damage hits, Rending only does 20% more damage than a single hit of dizzy without master dw. If you want it reduced to the "strength" of a normal dot, it'll be forgotten about just like almost every other set that barely tickles opponents.
If I used that setup in a duel, claw and blood craze would do more damage than the proc. Would you still be complaining about it?
I really hope u re joking cuz u CANT compare a trial dummy without any crit resistance vs a player, ofc your master dual wield dot deals more dmg than venomus on a dummy try vs someone with 3.3k crit resistance which is really easy to get than come here to post your results6 -
kalunte✭✭✭✭✭venomous smite is dumb, for sure, it does the same dmg on single target in a regular fight than sheer venom, not talking about tooltips but actual uptime and dmg you can analyse on combat metrics addons for exemple.
both can be purged, so sometimes, sheer venom is better.
BUT sheer venom can only be applied to 1 target at a time while venomous is AOE and therefor does roughly 3times sheer venom's dmg in a regular fight (which is rarely 1v1 in bg or cyrodiil) and can apply on pets which is great when there is a templar in the enemy team (because pets dont synergize much...)
just another exemple of how AoE are stupidly strong in this game. all of the single target users know how hard it is to aim at the right target in eso but still aoe are more efficient even against 1target because of the dmg output, or the fact that they are undodgeable or whatever.
an old issue brought to the spotlight but nothing new.0 -
ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭SavageChain wrote: »It's just one dot, lol.precambria wrote: »The tooltip isn't even written correctly so it doesn't show that its like 30k damage in an aoe with no flight time, look at the other dot procs in the game than look at that one. It's at least TWICE as much damage as it should be if compared with other sets.
30k tooltip damage over 15 seconds is equal to the same tooltip damage as two dswings. It's also about equal to Venomous Claw. Again, it's just one dot. Dots are hilariously weak in ESO, so try healing.
Rending with Master DW also has about the same tooltip as this set, but can be used every ~11 seconds, so it's more effective dps.
edit:
This is what you guys are complaining about. I put together a dot build with this set and hit a dummy and it's.. 5% of my damage. It doesn't even out damage rending with master dw or venomous claw. This isn't sloads where it completely ignores mitigation and has 100% uptime, it's just a relatively strong dot that ticks over 10s. The old master dw before bleeds were nerfed, along with axe bleeds, were way way stronger than this ever was. Even the old carve that caused a bleed was better because that ignored mitigation too.
What do you give up for running this set? In my case could run Tzogvin's on 2h bar instead and get minor force, 10% more crit on both bars, and 1400 pen. Or I could have a dot. Tough choice.
Pls use overwhelming in a dummy parse too and tell us all its ***...
Dummy parses are not at all comparable with PvP and most damage proc sets perform weak in a parse, meanwhile they are strong in PvP. Your whole statement therefore does not make sense.
The set hits harder than most dots and most proc sets applying a dot. Also the damage is pretty mich unavoidable for the primary target and even is AoE damage.
The sets is another cuplrit of players performing better than they are, because the set approximately does 15-20% of a players dps in a 1v1. If you add another damage proc set or two, 40-60% of the players damage is caused by the sets and not the player himself. To me this looks like a great indicator for dumbing the game down for new players and makes skilled gameplay irrelevant, since you perform better using proc sets.
Is venomous claw strong in pvp? Not really. Are people complaining about master dw, which does even more damage than this set? The average damage per tick (every 2 seconds) from rending is more than twice as high as the ticks from venomous smite, and rending also has a direct damage component, so over 10 seconds it's much more damage than this set, and it can be applied more often than once every 15 seconds. Should we nerf master dw even more? The blood craze morph heals too, which makes it sound really OP, I wonder why literally everyone isn't using it?
It hits harder than most dots, so what? Most dots are complete trash. Rending without master dw is garbage, Venomous Claw is extremely weak until the last few ticks, etc. I'm glad it's better than most dots because (again) most dots are terrible abilities. That means it's actually useful. Over 10 seconds, including it's direct damage hits, Rending only does 20% more damage than a single hit of dizzy without master dw. If you want it reduced to the "strength" of a normal dot, it'll be forgotten about just like almost every other set that barely tickles opponents.
If I used that setup in a duel, claw and blood craze would do more damage than the proc. Would you still be complaining about it?
I really hope u re joking cuz u CANT compare a trial dummy without any crit resistance vs a player, ofc your master dual wield dot deals more dmg than venomus on a dummy try vs someone with 3.3k crit resistance which is really easy to get than come here to post your results
Since the proc can't crit at all, master dw will still out damage it due to dw passives, especially if you have cc and/or get some ticks in on a low health target. With the amount of purges that are going out in pvp these days I don't see why anyone is all that worried about a dot. You're all playing templars or wardens or stamcros anyway, so just purge lol.
Strong dots are a regular thing in literally every other MMO besides ESO anyway. This idea that all effective damage has to be direct and able to be immediately countered is limited to this game's playerbase and nowhere else.Edited by ecru on July 13, 2020 10:40AMGryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer0 -
ItsJustHashtag✭✭✭✭I’ve heard a lot of magicka users are beginning to wear this set as well on EU servers. If that is the case then it tells you all that you need to know about this set.4
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ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭ItsJustHashtag wrote: »I’ve heard a lot of magicka users are beginning to wear this set as well on EU servers. If that is the case then it tells you all that you need to know about this set.
it seems very smart to slot a 5 piece that only gives you a dot that ticks for 1k every 10 seconds and nothing else. looks like we've got some galaxy brain gear setups over in eu folks.Gryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer3 -
Tammany✭✭✭✭Gee, I wonder why the class that can completely ignore the damage from this set with cloak doesn't see why people are complaining about it...but yeah..sure. Best post in the thread.
I main sorc for last month, not nightblade.
My point still stands, set is terrible in pvp and works only against crowds/bads, your tears are exaggerated.1 -
ItsJustHashtag✭✭✭✭Gee, I wonder why the class that can completely ignore the damage from this set with cloak doesn't see why people are complaining about it...but yeah..sure. Best post in the thread.
I main sorc for last month, not nightblade.
My point still stands, set is terrible in pvp and works only against crowds/bads, your tears are exaggerated.
Magsorc?
0 -
Red99✭✭✭SavageChain wrote: »It's just one dot, lol.precambria wrote: »The tooltip isn't even written correctly so it doesn't show that its like 30k damage in an aoe with no flight time, look at the other dot procs in the game than look at that one. It's at least TWICE as much damage as it should be if compared with other sets.
30k tooltip damage over 15 seconds is equal to the same tooltip damage as two dswings. It's also about equal to Venomous Claw. Again, it's just one dot. Dots are hilariously weak in ESO, so try healing.
Rending with Master DW also has about the same tooltip as this set, but can be used every ~11 seconds, so it's more effective dps.
edit:
This is what you guys are complaining about. I put together a dot build with this set and hit a dummy and it's.. 5% of my damage. It doesn't even out damage rending with master dw or venomous claw. This isn't sloads where it completely ignores mitigation and has 100% uptime, it's just a relatively strong dot that ticks over 10s. The old master dw before bleeds were nerfed, along with axe bleeds, were way way stronger than this ever was. Even the old carve that caused a bleed was better because that ignored mitigation too.
What do you give up for running this set? In my case could run Tzogvin's on 2h bar instead and get minor force, 10% more crit on both bars, and 1400 pen. Or I could have a dot. Tough choice.
Pls use overwhelming in a dummy parse too and tell us all its ***...
Dummy parses are not at all comparable with PvP and most damage proc sets perform weak in a parse, meanwhile they are strong in PvP. Your whole statement therefore does not make sense.
The set hits harder than most dots and most proc sets applying a dot. Also the damage is pretty mich unavoidable for the primary target and even is AoE damage.
The sets is another cuplrit of players performing better than they are, because the set approximately does 15-20% of a players dps in a 1v1. If you add another damage proc set or two, 40-60% of the players damage is caused by the sets and not the player himself. To me this looks like a great indicator for dumbing the game down for new players and makes skilled gameplay irrelevant, since you perform better using proc sets.
Is venomous claw strong in pvp? Not really. Are people complaining about master dw, which does even more damage than this set? The average damage per tick (every 2 seconds) from rending is more than twice as high as the ticks from venomous smite, and rending also has a direct damage component, so over 10 seconds it's much more damage than this set, and it can be applied more often than once every 15 seconds. Should we nerf master dw even more? The blood craze morph heals too, which makes it sound really OP, I wonder why literally everyone isn't using it?
It hits harder than most dots, so what? Most dots are complete trash. Rending without master dw is garbage, Venomous Claw is extremely weak until the last few ticks, etc. I'm glad it's better than most dots because (again) most dots are terrible abilities. That means it's actually useful. Over 10 seconds, including it's direct damage hits, Rending only does 20% more damage than a single hit of dizzy without master dw. If you want it reduced to the "strength" of a normal dot, it'll be forgotten about just like almost every other set that barely tickles opponents.
If I used that setup in a duel, claw and blood craze would do more damage than the proc. Would you still be complaining about it?
I really hope u re joking cuz u CANT compare a trial dummy without any crit resistance vs a player, ofc your master dual wield dot deals more dmg than venomus on a dummy try vs someone with 3.3k crit resistance which is really easy to get than come here to post your results
Since the proc can't crit at all, master dw will still out damage it due to dw passives, especially if you have cc and/or get some ticks in on a low health target. With the amount of purges that are going out in pvp these days I don't see why anyone is all that worried about a dot. You're all playing templars or wardens or stamcros anyway, so just purge lol.
Strong dots are a regular thing in literally every other MMO besides ESO anyway. This idea that all effective damage has to be direct and able to be immediately countered is limited to this game's playerbase and nowhere else.
Master dual wield can crit just look your screen and as i said when we re talking about pvp u have to test vs a player not a trial dummy with major+ minor force0 -
ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭SavageChain wrote: »It's just one dot, lol.precambria wrote: »The tooltip isn't even written correctly so it doesn't show that its like 30k damage in an aoe with no flight time, look at the other dot procs in the game than look at that one. It's at least TWICE as much damage as it should be if compared with other sets.
30k tooltip damage over 15 seconds is equal to the same tooltip damage as two dswings. It's also about equal to Venomous Claw. Again, it's just one dot. Dots are hilariously weak in ESO, so try healing.
Rending with Master DW also has about the same tooltip as this set, but can be used every ~11 seconds, so it's more effective dps.
edit:
This is what you guys are complaining about. I put together a dot build with this set and hit a dummy and it's.. 5% of my damage. It doesn't even out damage rending with master dw or venomous claw. This isn't sloads where it completely ignores mitigation and has 100% uptime, it's just a relatively strong dot that ticks over 10s. The old master dw before bleeds were nerfed, along with axe bleeds, were way way stronger than this ever was. Even the old carve that caused a bleed was better because that ignored mitigation too.
What do you give up for running this set? In my case could run Tzogvin's on 2h bar instead and get minor force, 10% more crit on both bars, and 1400 pen. Or I could have a dot. Tough choice.
Pls use overwhelming in a dummy parse too and tell us all its ***...
Dummy parses are not at all comparable with PvP and most damage proc sets perform weak in a parse, meanwhile they are strong in PvP. Your whole statement therefore does not make sense.
The set hits harder than most dots and most proc sets applying a dot. Also the damage is pretty mich unavoidable for the primary target and even is AoE damage.
The sets is another cuplrit of players performing better than they are, because the set approximately does 15-20% of a players dps in a 1v1. If you add another damage proc set or two, 40-60% of the players damage is caused by the sets and not the player himself. To me this looks like a great indicator for dumbing the game down for new players and makes skilled gameplay irrelevant, since you perform better using proc sets.
Is venomous claw strong in pvp? Not really. Are people complaining about master dw, which does even more damage than this set? The average damage per tick (every 2 seconds) from rending is more than twice as high as the ticks from venomous smite, and rending also has a direct damage component, so over 10 seconds it's much more damage than this set, and it can be applied more often than once every 15 seconds. Should we nerf master dw even more? The blood craze morph heals too, which makes it sound really OP, I wonder why literally everyone isn't using it?
It hits harder than most dots, so what? Most dots are complete trash. Rending without master dw is garbage, Venomous Claw is extremely weak until the last few ticks, etc. I'm glad it's better than most dots because (again) most dots are terrible abilities. That means it's actually useful. Over 10 seconds, including it's direct damage hits, Rending only does 20% more damage than a single hit of dizzy without master dw. If you want it reduced to the "strength" of a normal dot, it'll be forgotten about just like almost every other set that barely tickles opponents.
If I used that setup in a duel, claw and blood craze would do more damage than the proc. Would you still be complaining about it?
I really hope u re joking cuz u CANT compare a trial dummy without any crit resistance vs a player, ofc your master dual wield dot deals more dmg than venomus on a dummy try vs someone with 3.3k crit resistance which is really easy to get than come here to post your results
Since the proc can't crit at all, master dw will still out damage it due to dw passives, especially if you have cc and/or get some ticks in on a low health target. With the amount of purges that are going out in pvp these days I don't see why anyone is all that worried about a dot. You're all playing templars or wardens or stamcros anyway, so just purge lol.
Strong dots are a regular thing in literally every other MMO besides ESO anyway. This idea that all effective damage has to be direct and able to be immediately countered is limited to this game's playerbase and nowhere else.
Master dual wield can crit just look your screen and as i said when we re talking about pvp u have to test vs a player not a trial dummy with major+ minor force
Rending gets another 20% damage on sub 25% targets and another 15% on targets that are cc'd, like all dual wield abilities. It will absolutely out damage this set if used properly.Gryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer0 -
The Uninvited✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Agreed.
Venomous is pre-nerfed sloads on steroids: deals comparable single target damage while dealing that same dmg also to nearby targets (hilarious), comparable ease of application, lack of counters, applies a nasty status effect, etc.
But hey, we also got malacath - so I guess ZOS is just beyond pretending to care for balance and goes for even the most cheap & dirty tricks to milk the cow.
At least it's a good thing they can't be used together then.Pandora's Promise (rip) | LND | Pactriotic | IKnowWhatUDidLastWinter's | The Uninvited |
Ride the paranoia | All life is pain | Only the grave is real1 -
FirmamentOfStars✭✭✭✭✭ItsJustHashtag is right though. The set gains popularity even on magchars in no cp, same as draugrkin and back then knightslayer were used on stamchars.
Since venomous smite cant crit, it deals oppressive damage. It is stronger than dots and has a higher tooltip than other proc sets plus i lt is aoe.
Naturally its low dps on a dummy without crits, but in PvP thats a different story with crit resistance and moving/smart enemies.
Btw the numbers of 15-20% of total dps in a 1v1 comes from a fight against a magplar. So it should be even higher against other classes.
The most oppressive builds you currently find in no cp PvP are builds with at least one damage or several proc sets. On a magplar, overwhelming surge plus grothdarr were already before greymoor one of the most pressure based builds even in cp PvP.
Saying dots are weak atm and therefore a strong dot set is required is pretty dumb though. Dots should be viable by themselves and a set performing easely better than normal dots says a lot about the current state of combat balance.
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Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭All proc builds are hilarious right now with Malacath ring and overbuffed impen and meanwhile most classes are pruned down so much that their kit doesn't work anymore without utilizing procs. AFK dmg from sets is just awful game design and doesn't feel satisfying to use and frustrating to die against.I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.5 -
The Uninvited✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »All proc builds are hilarious right now with Malacath ring and overbuffed impen and meanwhile most classes are pruned down so much that their kit doesn't work anymore without utilizing procs. AFK dmg from sets is just awful game design and doesn't feel satisfying to use and frustrating to die against.
This set doesn't work together with Malacath.Pandora's Promise (rip) | LND | Pactriotic | IKnowWhatUDidLastWinter's | The Uninvited |
Ride the paranoia | All life is pain | Only the grave is real2 -
FirmamentOfStars✭✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »All proc builds are hilarious right now with Malacath ring and overbuffed impen and meanwhile most classes are pruned down so much that their kit doesn't work anymore without utilizing procs. AFK dmg from sets is just awful game design and doesn't feel satisfying to use and frustrating to die against.
Totally agree. Due to healing nerf and malacath buffing procs (not venomous in this case), proc builds are the go to for many classes in no cp and also in cp. The dps you get from procs is a very consistent and reliable dps, even when being pressured and on the receiving end.
IMO it is not skill-based gameplay to let your sets do 20-60% of your dps, but ZOS dumbed the game down during the last patches, so that even new players can make an impact (in PvP thx to proc sets).4 -
precambria✭✭✭✭✭9It's just one dot, lol.precambria wrote: »The tooltip isn't even written correctly so it doesn't show that its like 30k damage in an aoe with no flight time, look at the other dot procs in the game than look at that one. It's at least TWICE as much damage as it should be if compared with other sets.
30k tooltip damage over 15 seconds is equal to the same tooltip damage as two dswings. It's also about equal to Venomous Claw. Again, it's just one dot. Dots are hilariously weak in ESO, so try healing.
Rending with Master DW also has about the same tooltip as this set, but can be used every ~11 seconds, so it's more effective dps.
edit:
This is what you guys are complaining about. I put together a dot build with this set and hit a dummy and it's.. 5% of my damage. It doesn't even out damage rending with master dw or venomous claw. This isn't sloads where it completely ignores mitigation and has 100% uptime, it's just a relatively strong dot that ticks over 10s. The old master dw before bleeds were nerfed, along with axe bleeds, were way way stronger than this ever was. Even the old carve that caused a bleed was better because that ignored mitigation too.
What do you give up for running this set? In my case could run Tzogvin's on 2h bar instead and get minor force, 10% more crit on both bars, and 1400 pen. Or I could have a dot. Tough choice.
We are talking about pvp though it's completely different because of battlespirit and resists, the TOOLIP is that high the actual damage it does is more like 7-10k in no CP which is obscenely high for the literally 0 effort it takes to have on somebody while also pounding them with other spells and dots : [0 -
precambria✭✭✭✭✭I use master DW and get hit with it like 100 times a day, it's never been in a recap at 10k damage hell it's usually under 4k.
Malacath dots are annoying because people got way to used to dots being utter trash for a patch, if it's overbearing now it's because of the 20% healing loss but dots SHOULD do damage especially considering how dot comprise so many of the offensive abilities in this game.
Look at icy conjure, look at pillar of nirn both are hard to obtain compared to venomous and have proc conditions or limitations that make them harder to use and their tooltips are LESS than hunters venom, hunters venom doesn't even have an avoidable projectile Icy has a slow moving spirit that can be dodged and also requires a minor debuff to proc it with less damage done than venom a literal AOE, pillar of nirn is easy to avoid and WEAK (less than half) as heck in damage compared to venom with the same cooldown and no tracking area of effect oh it's also a % based proc and not a condition one so it will waste itself constantly.
There are other dot sets in the game non of them even hold a candle to the damage potential of HV, this was not an oversight but retooling a bunch of sets takes work and they wanted motivation for people to do harrowstorms, what sells on the guild store faster than a OP PVP set right before MYM? it will be corrected but we need to make sure they know to do it sooner than later.2 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The Uninvited wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »All proc builds are hilarious right now with Malacath ring and overbuffed impen and meanwhile most classes are pruned down so much that their kit doesn't work anymore without utilizing procs. AFK dmg from sets is just awful game design and doesn't feel satisfying to use and frustrating to die against.
This set doesn't work together with Malacath.
And therefore it's stronger than the other proc sets. Just look at WoW, the game has a proc dmg meta as well and the majority of the playerbase hates it and arena participation is at an all time low (granted, the gearing in WoW is awful on top of that).I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.0 -
starlizard70ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Venomous is pre-nerfed sloads on steroids: deals comparable single target damage while dealing that same dmg also to nearby targets (hilarious), comparable ease of application, lack of counters, applies a nasty status effect, etc.
Hey, give ZOS some credit. At least Venomous Smite does not proc itself.
Ah,.. how foolish of me not to see that ^. The set is perfectly fine.
"We have found a cave, but I don't think there are warm fires and friendly faces inside."1
