The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
After some time with the new patch....what about the Healing nerf?
paganslyer
✭✭
hey
what do you all think of the healing nerf after play in this nerf for a while?
i think this change Break the balance between classes . and make some form of play style better such shields stacking and doge , and builds and class that Relies primarily on self heal are Less effective
While the developers claimed the problem was cross healing ...this nerf actually hurt solo players mostly.
As some already said....if some problem Exists in terms of over survivability its More specifically, and Requires a balance that includes all the classes and skills (that its to hard work for zos so they just nerf it all)
another point of Imbalance for my opinion: if some 1 can deal X damage in 1 attack the other need to have the ability to heal for almost X too no?
now 1 hit for X and the other only can heal for X (-) something like 40-50% (Considering this patch bring High capacity of dealing damage like Malacath's Band)
I think it's a sign of derision and Unwillingness to do what need to be done in terms of balance.
and the result is just Less diversity of pvp builds .
some other Forum discussion that cover this issue:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/522504/why-20-pvp-blanket-healing-nerf-is-bad
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/532057/healing-nerf-accomplished-nothing-almost
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/521973/50-to-60-healing-is-not-10-healing-nerf/p1
what do you all think of the healing nerf after play in this nerf for a while?
i think this change Break the balance between classes . and make some form of play style better such shields stacking and doge , and builds and class that Relies primarily on self heal are Less effective
While the developers claimed the problem was cross healing ...this nerf actually hurt solo players mostly.
As some already said....if some problem Exists in terms of over survivability its More specifically, and Requires a balance that includes all the classes and skills (that its to hard work for zos so they just nerf it all)
another point of Imbalance for my opinion: if some 1 can deal X damage in 1 attack the other need to have the ability to heal for almost X too no?
now 1 hit for X and the other only can heal for X (-) something like 40-50% (Considering this patch bring High capacity of dealing damage like Malacath's Band)
I think it's a sign of derision and Unwillingness to do what need to be done in terms of balance.
and the result is just Less diversity of pvp builds .
some other Forum discussion that cover this issue:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/522504/why-20-pvp-blanket-healing-nerf-is-bad
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/532057/healing-nerf-accomplished-nothing-almost
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/521973/50-to-60-healing-is-not-10-healing-nerf/p1
1
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OBJnoob✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think the healing nerf was a good change. In cp it was probably extremely necessary. In no cp it’s been rather extreme and most people had to change their build. I’m not sure why that alone is enough evidence for so many people to hate it.
The one complaint I have is that, not so much group -v- solo, but toons with natural affinity for healing -v- not... the healing beasts still seem to be healing beasts. It’s almost like... okay I’m going to say it... it’s almost like Templar’s were over healing anyway and with these awesome new options for resource sustain I don’t think they got messed with at all.
So you have one of the most overplayed and overpowered classes, known for healing, that just escapes this change completely. The rest of us had to change our gear to be more tanky or whatever... the Templar still just stacks damage. Which creates further divide in potential healing power.
I’ll admit to being a little biased against Templar’s they have always annoyed me. Don’t get me wrong I kill half of them or whatever but have you seen the damage on some of these guys? I mean they might not be nightblades or stamcros but they can 0 you, with cp, from 75% health. And heal full with a wave of their hand.
Their preferred kill combo just naturally includes a major defile, a gap closer, a stun, a proc, a delayed burst skill, and a cheap ultimate. Oh did I make that look like it was a 6 skill combo? It’s only 3.
Sorry for hijacking your thread with a rant but that is my opinion on this patch. I like the change for the most part but I feel they missed the target a little bit.
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OBJnoob✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nope. Yup. Got one more thing to say. My buddy mains a Templar, dps variety. Very good character. Very good player. Saw him walking around the other day and challenged him to a duel. He beat me. Okay, no big deal, plenty of people beat me.
But this guy is wearing like ravager body, nma front bar, potentates backbar... like I said, good toon. Good player. He uses balorghs.
We go at it... he pops his ulti with however much he had but I go defensive and survive. Lucky me. He spends the next 5 minutes on his backbar doing nothing but standing in his rune, heavy attacking with a resto staff, breaking free every 6 seconds, and breath of life himself. Until he has 500 ulti. Then he tries again for 12 seconds and after like 10 minutes of this he finally gets me.
I’m a dot based stamdk wearing malacath and TWO defile sets. I’m sorry but he shouldn’t be able to do that for 10 minutes. My sustain is absurd I’m barswapping constant pressure and defile... I don’t mind losing but wtf is this?
So. Tying this back into the original topic. I think the patch is fine. I think either resto heavies, Templar healing, or balorghs need to be nerfed. And as much as I despise Templar’s... I’d rather start by nerfing balorghs and see where things go from there.1 -
DTAmoral✭✭✭✭With the healing changes, and additional crit resistance added I moved points out of Resistant, and added them to Quick Recovery.
I have 3k Crit Resistance, and a healthy amount of points in QR so I feel good after this patch. Just took some time to l2p around it!Xbox NA - EP
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Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭With the healing changes, and additional crit resistance added I moved points out of Resistant, and added them to Quick Recovery.
I have 3k Crit Resistance, and a healthy amount of points in QR so I feel good after this patch. Just took some time to l2p around it!
Yeh, that's what I did.
In reality, it solved nothing though.
Classes with good healing still have good healing. Classes with poor healing have terrible healing now.
Zergs and large groups still have people mindlessly throwing resto staff skills around just healing whoever without even trying.
Small scale and solo players now have a harder time fighting outnumbered because they can't recover as much when they take big damage from multiple players.4 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Can we please implement that you can only heal people in your group.
Honestly sick of fighting people and they get healed by someone who doesn't even know they're healing someone.2 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭With the healing changes, and additional crit resistance added I moved points out of Resistant, and added them to Quick Recovery.
I have 3k Crit Resistance, and a healthy amount of points in QR so I feel good after this patch. Just took some time to l2p around it!
CP is more balanced than NOCP this patch so it couls explain why you don't feel the same issues if you only play there. The class imbalances have become more obvious than ever in nocp this patch however.
Come nocp and try to play solo in anything that isn't a sorc, stamden/stamcro or a stamblade and you'll soon realise that the healing changes didn't solve any issues, but only created new ones.
ZOS should've addressed specific offenders in the healing department instead of just going the usual lazy route and go with a blanket 20% healing nerf across the board.Edited by Qbiken on July 8, 2020 4:03PM5 -
DTAmoral✭✭✭✭In reality, it solved nothing though.
Classes with good healing still have good healing. Classes with poor healing have terrible healing now.
Zergs and large groups still have people mindlessly throwing resto staff skills around just healing whoever without even trying.Small scale and solo players now have a harder time fighting outnumbered because they can't recover as much when they take big damage from multiple players.
I agree, there needs to be better fixes than simply slashing healing and saying 'meh that should be good'
Im a big believer that Radiating Regeneration needs to 'fixed' not nerfed. Right now it can stack up as many time as it likes. You can nerf healing all day, but if I am (and we do) walk around with 10+ stacks of this on your bar even at 1k a tik thats really strong. They need to make it where you can only have 2-3 of this on your bar at most.Xbox NA - EP
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Can we please implement that you can only heal people in your group.
Honestly sick of fighting people and they get healed by someone who doesn't even know they're healing someone.
It makes sense that we can heal people in our alliance. After all, the entire alliance is fighting for the same general goal and is one big team.3 -
Otiz✭✭I mostly play No CP, and I really think the game is extremly bad. The patch prior to this was very unforgiving as a NB main, and they were pretty much just a bad class, but you could play other classes.
With the current TTK in No CP it all seems so skillless. You will die to random ulties and bad builds, it really doesnt matter anymore.
ESO has the best MMO pvp, but right now it is bad, at least in No cp2 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭With the healing changes, and additional crit resistance added I moved points out of Resistant, and added them to Quick Recovery.
I have 3k Crit Resistance, and a healthy amount of points in QR so I feel good after this patch. Just took some time to l2p around it!
Yeh, that's what I did.
In reality, it solved nothing though.
Classes with good healing still have good healing. Classes with poor healing have terrible healing now.
Zergs and large groups still have people mindlessly throwing resto staff skills around just healing whoever without even trying.
Small scale and solo players now have a harder time fighting outnumbered because they can't recover as much when they take big damage from multiple players.
Looks like you didn't (don't) want to change your build to adapt to the new burst meta, @Brrrofski.
The vast majority of PvP players had to make changes after the patch.
Just because you play solo or small man doesn't mean your exempt from the healing changes.
The sooner you adapt the better ... because ZOS isn't going to change the game to cater to your specific playstyle.
Edited by Taleof2Cities on July 8, 2020 6:18PM4 -
Zodi53✭✭✭Sorc and DK can tank everything, while every other class dies in seconds. That’s the new PvP.5 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »With the healing changes, and additional crit resistance added I moved points out of Resistant, and added them to Quick Recovery.
I have 3k Crit Resistance, and a healthy amount of points in QR so I feel good after this patch. Just took some time to l2p around it!
Yeh, that's what I did.
In reality, it solved nothing though.
Classes with good healing still have good healing. Classes with poor healing have terrible healing now.
Zergs and large groups still have people mindlessly throwing resto staff skills around just healing whoever without even trying.
Small scale and solo players now have a harder time fighting outnumbered because they can't recover as much when they take big damage from multiple players.
Looks like you didn't (don't) want to change your build to adapt to the new burst meta, @Brrrofski.
The vast majority of PvP players had to make changes after the patch.
Just because you play solo or small man doesn't mean your exempt from the healing changes.
The sooner you adapt the better ... because ZOS isn't going to change the game to cater to your specific playstyle.
I did change my build. It's pretty solid.
What's that got to do with the healing nerf?
It doesn't change the fact that ball groups with 10 healers see no change, which is where healing was an issue. Neverending ball group vs ball group lagging the entire server.3 -
ItsJustHashtag✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »With the healing changes, and additional crit resistance added I moved points out of Resistant, and added them to Quick Recovery.
I have 3k Crit Resistance, and a healthy amount of points in QR so I feel good after this patch. Just took some time to l2p around it!
Yeh, that's what I did.
In reality, it solved nothing though.
Classes with good healing still have good healing. Classes with poor healing have terrible healing now.
Zergs and large groups still have people mindlessly throwing resto staff skills around just healing whoever without even trying.
Small scale and solo players now have a harder time fighting outnumbered because they can't recover as much when they take big damage from multiple players.
Looks like you didn't (don't) want to change your build to adapt to the new burst meta, @Brrrofski.
The vast majority of PvP players had to make changes after the patch.
Just because you play solo or small man doesn't mean your exempt from the healing changes.
The sooner you adapt the better ... because ZOS isn't going to change the game to cater to your specific playstyle.
I did change my build. It's pretty solid.
What's that got to do with the healing nerf?
It doesn't change the fact that ball groups with 10 healers see no change, which is where healing was an issue. Neverending ball group vs ball group lagging the entire server.
This.0 -
setayco✭✭✭Nope. Yup. Got one more thing to say. My buddy mains a Templar, dps variety. Very good character. Very good player. Saw him walking around the other day and challenged him to a duel. He beat me. Okay, no big deal, plenty of people beat me.
But this guy is wearing like ravager body, nma front bar, potentates backbar... like I said, good toon. Good player. He uses balorghs.
We go at it... he pops his ulti with however much he had but I go defensive and survive. Lucky me. He spends the next 5 minutes on his backbar doing nothing but standing in his rune, heavy attacking with a resto staff, breaking free every 6 seconds, and breath of life himself. Until he has 500 ulti. Then he tries again for 12 seconds and after like 10 minutes of this he finally gets me.
I’m a dot based stamdk wearing malacath and TWO defile sets. I’m sorry but he shouldn’t be able to do that for 10 minutes. My sustain is absurd I’m barswapping constant pressure and defile... I don’t mind losing but wtf is this?
So. Tying this back into the original topic. I think the patch is fine. I think either resto heavies, Templar healing, or balorghs need to be nerfed. And as much as I despise Templar’s... I’d rather start by nerfing balorghs and see where things go from there.
First off, you are entitled to your opinion biased or not. But the argument you are bringing into the conversation makes little sense at all.
You firstly stated him wearing ravager and nma using a restoration potentates backbar.
You do realize ravager is not a magicka set? And he is going fully defensive while proccing major mending (25% healing done) which does not change with cp. if you are only running malacath and two defile sets dont you think the problem lies with your amount of damage that you deal. Keep in mind you can buff the amount of defile % you put out. Also whats wrong with resto staff heavy? It takes a whole 2.3 gcds to get major mending as it is and the buff does not last long enough to chain without healing in between the heavy attacks. But templars or resto heavies and balorghs needs to be nerfed because you have TWO defile sets and malacath on? Do you see what kind of sense you are making. You literally sacrificed most of your damage to get countered by a templar who can purge everything you put on him. But those things deserve a nerf because of your lack of knowledge. This is why we have the dilemma now because of bias opinions and lack of knowledge and communication between players and developers.
Edited by setayco on July 8, 2020 9:05PM10 -
Zahirr✭✭✭Personally, one of the worst patches since Scalebreaker.
As a stamina Dk, we've basically been nerfed every patch, so this one is nothing new, but it really did hurt a lot worse. Probably the biggest stamina Dk nerf since they nerfed all our dots by 20%.
It's just... awful. Yes, we get a passive that lets us heal for 12% more. But we also lack... almost any healing skills. Inhale, is a joke. Green Dragon Blood, half of that skill you can get from drinking a potion. And cauterize is.... okay? I guess? But it's a pretty small heal that, not only triggers every 5 seconds, but RANDOMLY GOES OFF TO HEAL SOME PUG. I'm not salty about it at all. Especially when it heals an npc guard while I'm trying to not get facestomped.
Really, this patch just widened the gap between classes that do, and classes that don't have good tankiness. Necromancer and Sorcerer? They're everywhere, because they either had good tankiness before, or didn't get nerfed, respectively. The rest of us? Forget trying to play a Nightblade that actually fights people, and pick back up your sneaking skills because you're not gunna be able to heal for anything. Dragonknight? Well, at least the tier-lists think we're op, So when they bury us in the mass graves they can write on our tombstone "Tier 2". And, I hate to say it, but even Templars are lacking in healing. And I hate templars. I hate templars with a fiery passion.
So yeah this patch kinda sucks. Everyone that moans and groans on the forums got what they wanted, and now everyone is so squishy that every fight takes about 2 minutes, and all everyone does is line of sight and rolldodge in a frantic attempt to not take any damage.
Except for Necromancers and Sorcerers, because Necromancers are the cash cow and no one complains louder then a Sorcerer main.1 -
EtTuBrutus✭✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »With the healing changes, and additional crit resistance added I moved points out of Resistant, and added them to Quick Recovery.
I have 3k Crit Resistance, and a healthy amount of points in QR so I feel good after this patch. Just took some time to l2p around it!
Yeh, that's what I did.
In reality, it solved nothing though.
Classes with good healing still have good healing. Classes with poor healing have terrible healing now.
Zergs and large groups still have people mindlessly throwing resto staff skills around just healing whoever without even trying.
Small scale and solo players now have a harder time fighting outnumbered because they can't recover as much when they take big damage from multiple players.
Looks like you didn't (don't) want to change your build to adapt to the new burst meta, @Brrrofski.
The vast majority of PvP players had to make changes after the patch.
Just because you play solo or small man doesn't mean your exempt from the healing changes.
The sooner you adapt the better ... because ZOS isn't going to change the game to cater to your specific playstyle.
New burst meta? It's always been burst.2 -
Metemsycosis✭✭✭✭EtTuBrutus wrote: »Taleof2Cities wrote: »With the healing changes, and additional crit resistance added I moved points out of Resistant, and added them to Quick Recovery.
I have 3k Crit Resistance, and a healthy amount of points in QR so I feel good after this patch. Just took some time to l2p around it!
Yeh, that's what I did.
In reality, it solved nothing though.
Classes with good healing still have good healing. Classes with poor healing have terrible healing now.
Zergs and large groups still have people mindlessly throwing resto staff skills around just healing whoever without even trying.
Small scale and solo players now have a harder time fighting outnumbered because they can't recover as much when they take big damage from multiple players.
Looks like you didn't (don't) want to change your build to adapt to the new burst meta, @Brrrofski.
The vast majority of PvP players had to make changes after the patch.
Just because you play solo or small man doesn't mean your exempt from the healing changes.
The sooner you adapt the better ... because ZOS isn't going to change the game to cater to your specific playstyle.
New burst meta? It's always been burst.
Indeed. Now it accounts for more, imo.
Cross healing is an issue to solo small scalers wanting to negate the builds and playstyles of others and those regurgitating popular streamers but to zergs it is bread and butter survival. It's what allows "group composition": pure damage dealers, tanks, cc spammers, debuffers, etc. Otherwise everyone runs a solo build and that level of homogenization is antithetical to "play how you want."
Terethea Magdalena, Breton Nightblade
A Dark-Adapted Eye, Imperial Necromancer
sanguinare vampiris
https://m.twitch.tv/amcrenshaw/profile0 -
OBJnoob✭✭✭✭✭
✭@setayco yea I didn’t mean to say ravager I meant to say rattlecage. Listen I’m not the best dueler I was just trying to relay my personal experience and the observations that came of it. You see I beat Templar’s in duels frequently enough. And they beat me frequently enough. I know how to shuffle and walk through them and I know to try and roll their defile thingy. I don’t play Templars because they’ve seemed fairly OP to me since I started playing the game. So I admit I don’t know much about them. These are just my observations. Based on the assumption that the nerf to healing and simultaneous nerf to defensive monster sets was an attempt to limit the tanky meta or at least keep tanks from also doing good damage. So I found it relevant to point out that the very best healers are still OP. Healers, tanks, dps... not sure what to call them. And isn’t that exactly the problem? Like I said at the end of my rant it’s probably not so much Templar’s as it is balorghs. Why they made balorghs so preposterously overtuned in the midst of all these other changes is beyond me.
Anyway no I don’t think it has anything to do with the damage I deal I think it has to do with players who duel not to lose instead of trying to win. And yes, I am aware that the irony here is he did win. I’m just saying it’s kinda lame that mechanics like that exist. You want to say I’m wearing two defile sets so I have no damage but you shrug off the fact that he’s just healing through extreme defiles. Like I must’ve had to give something else up to be doing what I’m doing... but you don’t see or care how he did NOT.
Anyway I stand 100% by my original statement, even if the story didn’t have much to do with it. I think the healing nerf missed it’s target... the healers. Everybody else is trying out pirate skeleton, earthgore, and malubeth in hopes of recovering what they once had. Meanwhile Templar’s are just doing whatever they want. Wear heavy armor, sure. Use pariah, why not. You can still heal. And you can still do damage. And I guess if I was a Templar I wouldn’t have to sacrifice my 5 piece or my damage to have major defile.
In my opinion Templar’s got buffed, if only compared to everyone else. And it’s not that I don’t want a dedicated healer to be able to heal his butt off. I just don’t want to lose to someone wearing heavy armor, an additional defensive set, balorghs, and like has like 800 recovery. Balorghs is a giant carry, which was the actual final statement I made. I don’t care that I lost. I lose plenty and I win plenty. It struck me as being indicative of a problem. If you don’t agree... whatever.
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Tammany✭✭✭✭Can we please implement that you can only heal people in your group.
Honestly sick of fighting people and they get healed by someone who doesn't even know they're healing someone.
Sick of healing random people when the one who needs healing is me ^(
Wait, does that mean you are sick of me ? >.>
Edited by Tammany on July 9, 2020 10:04AM0 -
Lughlongarm✭✭✭✭✭Healing nerf is a great step in the right direction. What I think they should do further is:
1)Nerf impren trait and CP star further by 25%.
2)Change shadow mundus, minor/major force, some of class passives to include crit healing(NB for example).
3)Delete the single star that gives free 9% crit chance from CP. They can change it to damage to mobs buff to balance the dps loss in PVE.
These changes will help boosting squishy damage builds, reduce the effectiveness of high HP builds(this patch new flavor), Malacath builds proc sets builds, etc. Open more builds diversity and class identity.0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@setayco yea I didn’t mean to say ravager I meant to say rattlecage. Listen I’m not the best dueler I was just trying to relay my personal experience and the observations that came of it. You see I beat Templar’s in duels frequently enough. And they beat me frequently enough. I know how to shuffle and walk through them and I know to try and roll their defile thingy. I don’t play Templars because they’ve seemed fairly OP to me since I started playing the game. So I admit I don’t know much about them. These are just my observations. Based on the assumption that the nerf to healing and simultaneous nerf to defensive monster sets was an attempt to limit the tanky meta or at least keep tanks from also doing good damage. So I found it relevant to point out that the very best healers are still OP. Healers, tanks, dps... not sure what to call them. And isn’t that exactly the problem? Like I said at the end of my rant it’s probably not so much Templar’s as it is balorghs. Why they made balorghs so preposterously overtuned in the midst of all these other changes is beyond me.
Anyway no I don’t think it has anything to do with the damage I deal I think it has to do with players who duel not to lose instead of trying to win. And yes, I am aware that the irony here is he did win. I’m just saying it’s kinda lame that mechanics like that exist. You want to say I’m wearing two defile sets so I have no damage but you shrug off the fact that he’s just healing through extreme defiles. Like I must’ve had to give something else up to be doing what I’m doing... but you don’t see or care how he did NOT.
Anyway I stand 100% by my original statement, even if the story didn’t have much to do with it. I think the healing nerf missed it’s target... the healers. Everybody else is trying out pirate skeleton, earthgore, and malubeth in hopes of recovering what they once had. Meanwhile Templar’s are just doing whatever they want. Wear heavy armor, sure. Use pariah, why not. You can still heal. And you can still do damage. And I guess if I was a Templar I wouldn’t have to sacrifice my 5 piece or my damage to have major defile.
In my opinion Templar’s got buffed, if only compared to everyone else. And it’s not that I don’t want a dedicated healer to be able to heal his butt off. I just don’t want to lose to someone wearing heavy armor, an additional defensive set, balorghs, and like has like 800 recovery. Balorghs is a giant carry, which was the actual final statement I made. I don’t care that I lost. I lose plenty and I win plenty. It struck me as being indicative of a problem. If you don’t agree... whatever.
Try to play magplar solo in nocp and you'll find that it's not a top tier class. While magplar is strong in 1v1/duels and groups, it suffers from the same healing problem as many other classes. Your avarage breath of life/honor the dead will heal you for about 5-7k, which is laughable for a class that is supposed to be a "healer class" (I know eso doesn't see a specific class for a specific role, but templar is always kinda associated with strong healing power in mmo's)
Magplar didn't get buffed by these healing changes, and is by no means one of the classes that does fine in this patch. It lacks the facetank abilities that classes like warden, necro and dk has, and also lacks the mobility that classes such as sorc (and to a certain degree nightblade) has.
Magplar has strong offense, but lacks any ability to recover from high pressure (excluding the pure tank/healbots).7 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Let's see, it's a bad idea because healing was never the problem: it was always the damage reduction.
I also find it quite comical that people cried when templars were healing, and now that they cannot heal as much and stack as much damage as possible with defile, people are still crying.
ZOS decided to cater to players that have either zero idea about the tank problem or an extreme bias, and this patch is the result.
Tanks stronger than ever before, because defile tanks can do more damage to anyone else greater than before, and tanks can effectively heal more than everyone else greater than before, when accounting for relative power across all builds.
This patch is a REAL tank meta. Go tank, or go boom! It's not even a contest. Then you have mythics that power up these tanks to levels pure DPS without mythics can never achieve...and some people on these forums think the game is at a good point?
Just wait until everyone knows your little secrets, including the bugs. We'll see how fun PvP is very soon6 -
OBJnoob✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Qbiken well this isn’t a nerf Templar thread so I have no problem agreeing to disagree with you. I can see how they struggle in nocp— I think we’re all struggling a little bit in no cp. I think we all acknowledge these changes were meant to fix cp, not no cp. It’s kinda too bad you don’t at least agree balorghs is overtuned. That was pretty much the crux of my issue and it seems to be getting ignored over and over as people come to the Templar defense.Let's see, it's a bad idea because healing was never the problem: it was always the damage reduction.
I also find it quite comical that people cried when templars were healing, and now that they cannot heal as much and stack as much damage as possible with defile, people are still crying.
ZOS decided to cater to players that have either zero idea about the tank problem or an extreme bias, and this patch is the result.
Tanks stronger than ever before, because defile tanks can do more damage to anyone else greater than before, and tanks can effectively heal more than everyone else greater than before, when accounting for relative power across all builds.
This patch is a REAL tank meta. Go tank, or go boom! It's not even a contest. Then you have mythics that power up these tanks to levels pure DPS without mythics can never achieve...and some people on these forums think the game is at a good point?
Just wait until everyone knows your little secrets, including the bugs. We'll see how fun PvP is very soon
See now isn’t this almost the same thing that I said? The healing nerf missed its target. Tankyhealerdps rule the world. If you can defile all the better. But somehow nobody has seen any Templar’s mak8ng excellent use of this? K. Starting to think 8m not the biased one
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Beffagorn✭✭✭Outside of butchering no-cp entirely the nerf had no effect whatsoever in CP pvp, since the issue wasn't healing in the first place.
The few immortal tanks encountered in CP pvp are just that. Tanks. They pose no threat whatsoever and are just there to waste your time.
People seem to not understand that those immortal builds aren't the problem themselves. A DK that takes 15minutes to kill, a nightblade that only spams cloak with near endless regen in their build or a sorc that spams streak all day aren't the problem They're a nuisance.
The problems arise when Stamdens and Stamcros build as tanky as they can and still put out as much damage as when the other classes build for offense because of their passive skills and the passive effects inside their abilities.
The biggest outliers are Shimmering Shield (Major Heroism), Blast Bones (Major Defile) and Hexproof (4 cleanse + 3% cost redux to all abilities). Instead of nerfing healing across the board and killing no-cp they should nerf abilities like these that make those two classes able to do everything and have it all, especially Blast Bones. I'd love to see what all those deftard stamcros do when their I-WIN button doesn't apply 100% uptime on Major Defile while dealing as much damage as an ultimate.6 -
Zahirr✭✭✭@Beffagorn I'd personally rather see every class buffed up to the level of necro and warden, but I do agree with you. Deaden pain 30%, spirit guardian 10%, either deaden pain passive or mortal coil passive 3%, 15% on DOTs... a class should not have a baseline 58% mitigation, just by slotting 2 skills and spending 2k magicka.
Its that percent mitigation. No wonder stamina necro is so popular. The class doesnt even need to heal1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think the healing nerf was a good change. In cp it was probably extremely necessary. In no cp it’s been rather extreme and most people had to change their build. I’m not sure why that alone is enough evidence for so many people to hate it.
The one complaint I have is that, not so much group -v- solo, but toons with natural affinity for healing -v- not... the healing beasts still seem to be healing beasts. It’s almost like... okay I’m going to say it... it’s almost like Templar’s were over healing anyway and with these awesome new options for resource sustain I don’t think they got messed with at all.
So you have one of the most overplayed and overpowered classes, known for healing, that just escapes this change completely. The rest of us had to change our gear to be more tanky or whatever... the Templar still just stacks damage. Which creates further divide in potential healing power.
I’ll admit to being a little biased against Templar’s they have always annoyed me. Don’t get me wrong I kill half of them or whatever but have you seen the damage on some of these guys? I mean they might not be nightblades or stamcros but they can 0 you, with cp, from 75% health. And heal full with a wave of their hand.
Their preferred kill combo just naturally includes a major defile, a gap closer, a stun, a proc, a delayed burst skill, and a cheap ultimate. Oh did I make that look like it was a 6 skill combo? It’s only 3.
Sorry for hijacking your thread with a rant but that is my opinion on this patch. I like the change for the most part but I feel they missed the target a little bit.
Well if the problem were the "healing beasts" and after the nerf they are still the same then it wasn't such a good change is it?
That's enough evidence to understand why people hate it. Cause it achieved the exact opposite of what it was supposed to do.2 -
OBJnoob✭✭✭✭✭
✭I dunno what I maybe said a week ago but I think in this thread I’ve been supportive of reworking the nerf. I don’t think anybody liked my proposed answers— that maybe only actual healers get nerfed, or maybe resto heavies lose their major mending, or just like someone said nerf percentage mitigation instead. And certainly nerf balorghs for different but related reasons.
Templar rant aside— I think I’m on the same page as you now. I maybe said otherwise in another thread but frankly my mind is starting to change. That should be allowable
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Burtan✭✭✭✭The recent healing nerfs were just a lazy blanket fix.
In CP I think a flat nerf to battle spirit was needed unless CP as whole gets rebalanced because you get so much free sustain and healing from CP anyways which results in players being able to make near unkillable builds without much investment.
In no CP I think this healing nerf is way overboard and should be reverted at least for no CP campaigns as healing was never really an issue there unless someone invested very heavily into it and nothing else. Right now its a pain to outheal damage even for experienced players, cant imagine what its like for newer players.
Outside of that there are a few overperforming skills that could use very small adjustments but a flat nerf to all healing isn't the solution.5 -
JayKwellen✭✭✭✭✭This patch has been difficult to adjust to.
As a magblade without stealth, I already had to rely on a combo of HoTs, tankiness, and elusiveness with shade to survive. Magblade healing was already trash, so survivability really came from stacking 3-4 heals at once.
With greymoor this was hit hard. Dark cloak heals for like 850 a tick. Soul swallow a bit more. Siphoning a bit less. None of those are going to save you from a burst combo. Your shade will of course, but you can only sustain that so long, and the second one person catches on and camps it you're in trouble.
Tankiness is less too with the nerf to defensive monster sets. I used to run 1p chudan 1p pirates for the added 2800 resistances, but this is gone now.
Took me a while to find something that worked. Couldn't wear a defensive 5p because then my regen and damage was trash. Couldn't wear a defensive monster set combo because everything was underwhelming.
Finally, I tried speccing heavy into health regen, and it works okay. My regen spikes at 3.2k under 50%, which is like having an additional 1.5k Hot. My damage output is basically identical to harrowstorm, and my mag regen is also about the same (only 50 less). I'm making it work, but it's still been an adjustment. I'm now much more squishy and more easily busted down, but so long as I can roll my HoTs and shield/LoS and I can survive.
I'm still a magblade though, so nothing dies fast. I honestly don't even notice the healing nerf on others, because my own TTK is still almost the same as it was, which is to say it's too damn long against anyone acquainted with their roll dodge button.Xbox NA - JaeKwellen
AD PvP
Trying to main a magcro. This is awful.2