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ESO direly need a central auction house ...
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amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »But every guild with I guess at least 50 members has a guild shop - even if they have no NPC trader, there is a shop where you could offer it to other members - and if you really want just a small amount of money for it, this would be the place to do it. Not every guild has an NPC trader and if you just want to sell sets of this kind, other members could make use of what you acquired this way - so the opportunity is there.
And I'm limiting my potential selling base to 50 - 500 people tops, instead of allowing it to be accessible to anyone who might be able to use that gear, greatly decreasing my odds of selling anything. I haven't even been able to sell Mother's Sorrow at below market rate because my audience is so limited. That's being in multiple guilds.
There is 0 valid reason for funneling ALL ability to sell in this game through guilds.
Guilds should be there for high investment / high reward. Not for literally all trading and selling in the game.
I saw mother's Sorrow offered in zone chat quite often - guess it is simply pretty common currently and not that easy to sell therefore. But then again, I have no real knowledge about items like this, it is just an eventually naive guess of mine.
It's in high demand. Highly regarded as a "meta" set. Can go for some very high prices.
If I could cast my net to a wide audience through a public trader, I could get rid of them. But because the game has decided to railroad me through a guild, I do not have the ability to sell my excess gear. Which means it gets wasted and taken out of the economy.
My selling needs do not demand a trading guild. I sell spare gear pieces that I loot here and there. I'm mostly doing trials and dungeons so most loot can't be sold anyways, and I keep my mats for my own personal crafting.
But the system of this game has determined that I cannot sell *any*thing because I don't join a trading guild.
That is inappropriate game design.
I come from too many other games that have set too much past precedent for successful economies with public trading centers that any excuses or reasonings that ZOS or anyone else come up with just carry 0 weight in my eyes.4 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »Noooooooooooo please.
I've tried global auction houses in WoW and SWTOR, ESOs system is way more fun and works better. A global AH in the game is the sort of thing that would make me quit, as it would take away the fun from trading for me.
No it doesn't.
It only works for those who like to corner the market on certain things.
- Finding things is a pain.
- Finding a right price to buy/sell is a pain.
- Only a maximum of 150 items can be listed at a time, limiting buying and selling choice. (That assumes you are in 5 trading guilds. Fewer if not.)
- Etc.
The reason these threads keep showing up is because it is and remains a true pain.
Those who benefit from the large amount of hidden information will always jump to its defense, but that doesn't make it good. It just makes it a benefit for a subset of players.
You cant corner the market in ESO
- You play on PS4, so everything in ESO is a pain since you dont get to "upgrade" from ESO lite to ESO functional( IE: Addons). This can be fixed by implementing some of the features of TTC and MM into the game client.
- Finding the right price to buy or sell is something that can be fixed by implementing some features of TTC and MM.
- I am a trader and i dont need to list 150 items at a time. If you have time to farm enough to keep 150 item slots full then you are either playing nonstop or setting prices to high causing you to have to sit on them for days at a time.
Their is no information that other people on your server have access too that you also cant get access too. If you want to play with (almost) the full functionality this game should have then you should switch to PC.
That is not acceptable advice. I play on the PS4 which has the game. I have put enough into it there that I am not going to walk from that unless I quit the game completely (most likely).
ZoS chose to offer it on the PS4, so it should be a godo game on the PS4.
A previous reply said that my points were "absolutely false". Which ones? I have had all the noted problems. TTC is not on the console nor is it reasonable to expect addons to ever be on consoles. I have long advocated that key addon functionality should be integrated into the game.
The item cap is present for everyone unless you want to pay for multiple accounts. You cannot list more than 150 items (or stacks of items).
I have a very hard time finding something on the PS4 in many cases and I never really know if the guild vendors I do sample have a "reasonable price" for an item.
I can't see masses of people quitting the game if a functional central AH were available. Some would, but not masses.
PC
PS4/PS53 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »
Guilds should be there for high investment / high reward. Not for literally all trading and selling in the game.
Both systems, AH and guild trade, cannot coexist - where would the costumers for guilds come from, if they can just use the AH, it would kill the system ZOS has designed for this game. If there would be an AH I would most likely as well use it and give trading a pass - and an activity I enjoyed would be lost - and immersion gone with it as well - an AH is modern stuff, whereas the guild system fits more into the game's theme. It wouldn't hurt me financially, because I have already enough and nothing really to spend it on anyway. But I would see it as a loss for the game and it's theme in a whole.5 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ItsJustHashtag wrote: »Straight fax, but you have the people wanting the AH so they don’t have to and they can reap the rewards without the effort. It’s so lazy and sad.
It is lazy to want a really good sales system that lets you sell things easily and find things easily? We could complicate many parts of the game just to make it less appealing to such "lazy" people, but we would have a game few would play.As a seller, the current system is better, but for a buyer it is certainly worse.
I agree with part of your point, but this is not even necessarily true.
I have no idea which of my 150 items I should try to sell? Which are likely to sell and which are just going to come back in 30 days? Which are in demand? No easy way to tell.
Finding where to buy an item can be even worse than you note. Even finding some items may be impossible without spending hours going from guild vendor to guild vendor to see who has it listed. (No TTC on the PS4 remember.)
It is a really bad system with many limits, but some are fully sold out for it. The fact that these threads keep happening should be a clue that a substantial number of people don't like the current system.
Those who hide behind the idea that "the devs have said never" need to take a reality check and realize that "never" has a way of changing in MMOs. Stuff that was "impossible" can become "possible" if someone on the dev side decides to change direction. It happens all the time across MMOs, so it is not a valid crutch to rely on.PC
PS4/PS51 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »
I have no idea which of my 150 items I should try to sell? Which are likely to sell and which are just going to come back in 30 days? Which are in demand? No easy way to tell.
I can help with it - the guild UI has an activities panel - choose "sales" there and you see the actual trades happening in your guild, who has sold what to whom at which price. This way you can see what is actually selling in your location or guild and at which prices - those are not listed prices, but what customers where actually spending on these items - actual trades, not just wishful thinking - and based on that you can more easily decide which of your items to sell in that location or guild shop.
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FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »Easily_Lost wrote: »
There is an addon to do this: Nirn Auction House ( https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1768-NirnAuctionHouse.html ).Anotherone773 wrote: »
(.....) Addons would be made to list items on.(......)
Post 100 items at a time for 7 days. Costs nothing to post items. Buyers pay no fees. Seller pays COD cost.
I have been using Nirn Auction House for at least a year, and have never lost an item that I have sold.
....Wait, PC has had an *(albeit unofficial) Auction House this entire time for the past three years?
Yes that most people havent heard of or used. It doesnt even have 50k downloads. But there is the alternative for people who hate guild traders. A central AH. Knock yourself out!PizzaCat82 wrote: »I love when people come in here and leave response after response without any sort of proof. AH destroys economies? Show me the proof. All those other games with AHs are doing fine.
People who want centralized trading hubs are lazy? Sounds like you just want to keep taking advantage of the current system because it works best for you. Laziness isn't a factor but you want to act like you deserve the current system when in fact you're just the ones taking advantage of it the most currently.
We're arguing around eachother, refusing to change our minds and spouting off whatever nonsense without a shred of proof or even logic in most cases.
You guys aren't economists. You aren't the devs either.
Any games that are doing "fine" are doing so in spite of a good trading system not because of. No one plays WoW or Rift or FFXIV, or SWTOR, because they have great trading systems. They are playing them in spite of a good trading system. Whereas ive met many players in this very game that more than half of their gameplay consist of being a good trader or running a trade guild. Those are their end game. Trading in this game is an end game profession for some. Eve is so appealing to traders that it has the nickname of " Spreadsheets Online" and an in house economist that makes sure the market operates correctly. The economies in both of these games keep people logging in. There is not any other game out of it infancy with an AH that the AH is going to keep people logging in.
An AH doesnt help any game its in. It is not a draw for anyone, its not a career for anyone, its not content creating for anyone. Its a vendor for stuff you dont want and most of the stuff you put on it is a waste of time. Its put into games for the same reason that leveled zones are put into games. Its an easy formula that is "good enough" but archaic and lazy development.
Those who put in more effort should reap more rewards. This is not a hard or new concept. You want a lazy everything in one place AH dont expect to see the vast array of items you see on guild traders. You will see maybe 10% of those items and its going to be limited to very desirable sets, resources, motifs, and prints. Want a stack of flour to make you some food? To bad some nooblets kept posting 1-5 units of flour at a time until it was worth less than vendor price. So now we just keep it for ourselves and i have 4235 units of flour in my craft bag but you cant get 10 because i stopped listing on the AH a long time ago because its not worth my time, so you have to hope some nooblet that is hard up for cash and doesnt know any better posts his 6 units...but its probably just faster for you to go hunt for flour sacks yourself and grind out flour sacks for an hour so you can make a stack of food. HAVE FUN!!!. Welcome to the world of central AH.
Perhaps a handful of people play this game because of the trading system, but I can't see that many people doing so. Look at discussions of good MMO designs and you will not find a guild vendor system being a top discussion area.
And who says the Central AH in WoW was just tolerated? I liked it greatly when I played WoW. I quit WoW because it was a chore for all my alts, in spite of how much I liked the Central AH.
This system sucks and I play in spite of the lousy trade system. And I am in 10 trade guilds (across EU and NA). It remains a painful part of playing because it is so hard to find things when I am looking and then to figure out what to bother listing (and at what price) when I am trying to sell.
Not a good system at all however much many claim.
Are you all really arguing that I am just lazy and should want to spend hours on the trade system instead of questing, finding skyshards, and even PvP which is low on my priority list? Hunting the trade system is not a "fun" part of the game and is worse than the zergs to kill PvP players in the current PvP event.Kalik_Gold wrote: »Don't desire an auction house, but a "trade channel" for public sales, is welcomed.
Why would that be a good idea? The exact item you want to buy would have to be announced when you are ready to buy it, with all the added troubles of communicating with the seller, etc. Or the reverse for the buyer. That would be far worse.
I have found trying to buy something in chat to be a complete waste of time the couple of times I have tried it.PC
PS4/PS53 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »I guess a lot who are against this trading system have either not tried it or chose the wrong guild. Wrong in the meaning of not considering what amount of items and item value you have to sell to stay in that guild. When a major trade hub guild expects you to sell 150k per week, that means you will have to offer items for 7.8 million gold within a year - if you are playing for longer than a year and don't have stuff for 7.8 million in stock, you are just plain wrong in such a guild.
In that case you should choose one, where you can keep up with the average demand of that guild - you don't need a major trade hub guild, if you have just a couple of tens of thousands gold worth to sell per week - let's say 30k/week - this is still 1.56 million gold worth in a year - if you haven't accumulated that value in a year playing, you are as well wrong there and need a more remote guild, which might cost you nothing at all, but which matches your offer volume much better - eventually even one that has a trader just once per month - then you have a volume which matches the cost of the trader much better.
But if you're one of those low volume sellers, why should you be railroaded through a guild at all?
Just give me a public vendor I can toss some extra gear on to make a few coins.
I'm not trying to "win" Economy Scrolls Online. I just want to not let some of my overland loot go to waste and make a few coins in the process that might buy me some potions when I run low and need some for a trial run
you don't need a trader for stuff which no one wants to buy - and if you have something people actually want, then it has as well value and you can use the guild system - doesn't have to be one which high traffic, because you don't need the money right away and you have as well no cost or nearly none there. And guild shops work as well without a trader, among their members - if your stuff doesn't sell there, then you have one where people do not buy in general most likely - then join another one or consider why no one wants to buy your stuff - eventually it is just trash or of a level which is useless for other members. Trying to sell furniture in a pvp guild might as well turn out to be difficult, but it might sell well in a role play guild - where people might not even care about skills or levels, but they want a decent backdrop.
And exactly how do I, on the PS4, figure out what people want to buy? Even listing a hot item may not result in a sale because a buyer may not even see the item I listed, whatever the price, in the needed time frame.PC
PS4/PS52 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »I guess a lot who are against this trading system have either not tried it or chose the wrong guild. Wrong in the meaning of not considering what amount of items and item value you have to sell to stay in that guild. When a major trade hub guild expects you to sell 150k per week, that means you will have to offer items for 7.8 million gold within a year - if you are playing for longer than a year and don't have stuff for 7.8 million in stock, you are just plain wrong in such a guild.
In that case you should choose one, where you can keep up with the average demand of that guild - you don't need a major trade hub guild, if you have just a couple of tens of thousands gold worth to sell per week - let's say 30k/week - this is still 1.56 million gold worth in a year - if you haven't accumulated that value in a year playing, you are as well wrong there and need a more remote guild, which might cost you nothing at all, but which matches your offer volume much better - eventually even one that has a trader just once per month - then you have a volume which matches the cost of the trader much better.
But if you're one of those low volume sellers, why should you be railroaded through a guild at all?
Just give me a public vendor I can toss some extra gear on to make a few coins.
I'm not trying to "win" Economy Scrolls Online. I just want to not let some of my overland loot go to waste and make a few coins in the process that might buy me some potions when I run low and need some for a trial run
you don't need a trader for stuff which no one wants to buy - and if you have something people actually want, then it has as well value and you can use the guild system - doesn't have to be one which high traffic, because you don't need the money right away and you have as well no cost or nearly none there. And guild shops work as well without a trader, among their members - if your stuff doesn't sell there, then you have one where people do not buy in general most likely - then join another one or consider why no one wants to buy your stuff - eventually it is just trash or of a level which is useless for other members. Trying to sell furniture in a pvp guild might as well turn out to be difficult, but it might sell well in a role play guild - where people might not even care about skills or levels, but they want a decent backdrop.
And exactly how do I, on the PS4, figure out what people want to buy? Even listing a hot item may not result in a sale because a buyer may not even see the item I listed, whatever the price, in the needed time frame.
A few post above I gave a hint how to get the information you need - the activities panel in the guild UI - sales.
This is basically like a tracker, which shows you what is currently and in the recent past selling in your guild with all the information you need and eventually even more than you need - and you have this on console as well, I guess.Edited by Lysette on July 1, 2020 4:57PM2 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »
I have no idea which of my 150 items I should try to sell? Which are likely to sell and which are just going to come back in 30 days? Which are in demand? No easy way to tell.
I can help with it - the guild UI has an activities panel - choose "sales" there and you see the actual trades happening in your guild, who has sold what to whom at which price. This way you can see what is actually selling in your location or guild and at which prices - those are not listed prices, but what customers where actually spending on these items - actual trades, not just wishful thinking - and based on that you can more easily decide which of your items to sell in that location or guild shop.
I was not aware of that, though it is quite lacking for this purpose. It does show me a list of things that were bought (I assume from the guild trader), but it is just a list and not a way to really see which items are worth selling and what price is good. It would need a lot more data for that.
The one I checked was for Thalmor Nation, a larger trading guild, but still too much noise to get much value from it.
How should I know if the latest pants drop I got is worth selling? I end up just deconstructing most for mats and I am probably losing out on gold I could make, though almost all my listing spots are full and thus I don't have room unless I cance; a listing, but I have no idea which one would be worth canceling for which item. That problem remains.PC
PS4/PS51 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »
Guilds should be there for high investment / high reward. Not for literally all trading and selling in the game.
Both systems, AH and guild trade, cannot coexist - where would the costumers for guilds come from, if they can just use the AH, it would kill the system ZOS has designed for this game. If there would be an AH I would most likely as well use it and give trading a pass - and an activity I enjoyed would be lost - and immersion gone with it as well - an AH is modern stuff, whereas the guild system fits more into the game's theme. It wouldn't hurt me financially, because I have already enough and nothing really to spend it on anyway. But I would see it as a loss for the game and it's theme in a whole.
Both systems can co-exist and have in games past.
I come from SWG which as far as I'm concerned is still the standard for MMO's. They had a thriving economy that had both a public trader AND skill based player merchants. You didn't require a guild, but to have any sort of economic success it required skill investment from your character for the various Mercantile skills.
There were limits to what could be put on the public trader, so public traders were for low level and low cost inventory while the high quality big money inventory would be kept on the player's personal merchants at their shops they had spread through the world.
People would often use their goods on public traders to advertise their own shops, so if someone wanted higher quality mats or gear, they could get that information.
Thinking it can't be done is such a narrow way of looking. Fact is, mainstream MMO's have become very formulaic since the success of WoW, and devs and even the player base have forgotten about game design for MMO's that was VERY successful before WoW.2 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »
I have no idea which of my 150 items I should try to sell? Which are likely to sell and which are just going to come back in 30 days? Which are in demand? No easy way to tell.
I can help with it - the guild UI has an activities panel - choose "sales" there and you see the actual trades happening in your guild, who has sold what to whom at which price. This way you can see what is actually selling in your location or guild and at which prices - those are not listed prices, but what customers where actually spending on these items - actual trades, not just wishful thinking - and based on that you can more easily decide which of your items to sell in that location or guild shop.
I was not aware of that, though it is quite lacking for this purpose. It does show me a list of things that were bought (I assume from the guild trader), but it is just a list and not a way to really see which items are worth selling and what price is good. It would need a lot more data for that.
The one I checked was for Thalmor Nation, a larger trading guild, but still too much noise to get much value from it.
How should I know if the latest pants drop I got is worth selling? I end up just deconstructing most for mats and I am probably losing out on gold I could make, though almost all my listing spots are full and thus I don't have room unless I cance; a listing, but I have no idea which one would be worth canceling for which item. That problem remains.
But this is always in business like that - you have to try and see if it sells, if you can't find it in the list of trades, where it was sold in the recent past. Just like I do with treasure maps currently, even I have selected the time to check this out really badly, with the event still being on. Still, I sell about a couple of them several times a day, so I will get rid of them, even they are just slowly selling in a whole compared to other items.
I could use those slots better for something else, but I really want to get rid of these treasure maps, because I'm not doing them anyway, and they are said to be good for those who are into the antiquity system - I sold them at a variety of prices (and strangely enough they sold better at higher prices) - in the end the mix will bring in my target average price - but I will take them off my listing before the weekend, because I need those spots for something what really sells quickly and like hot cakes and put those maps up in the coming week during normal weekdays again and at higher prices - those sold better.
You need to experiment a bit - there is no way of knowing without trying, if something isn't in high demand and you can't find entries of this item in the guild activities sales panel.Edited by Lysette on July 1, 2020 5:18PM1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »
Guilds should be there for high investment / high reward. Not for literally all trading and selling in the game.
Both systems, AH and guild trade, cannot coexist - where would the costumers for guilds come from, if they can just use the AH, it would kill the system ZOS has designed for this game. If there would be an AH I would most likely as well use it and give trading a pass - and an activity I enjoyed would be lost - and immersion gone with it as well - an AH is modern stuff, whereas the guild system fits more into the game's theme. It wouldn't hurt me financially, because I have already enough and nothing really to spend it on anyway. But I would see it as a loss for the game and it's theme in a whole.
Both systems can co-exist and have in games past.
I come from SWG which as far as I'm concerned is still the standard for MMO's. They had a thriving economy that had both a public trader AND skill based player merchants. You didn't require a guild, but to have any sort of economic success it required skill investment from your character for the various Mercantile skills.
There were limits to what could be put on the public trader, so public traders were for low level and low cost inventory while the high quality big money inventory would be kept on the player's personal merchants at their shops they had spread through the world.
People would often use their goods on public traders to advertise their own shops, so if someone wanted higher quality mats or gear, they could get that information.
Thinking it can't be done is such a narrow way of looking. Fact is, mainstream MMO's have become very formulaic since the success of WoW, and devs and even the player base have forgotten about game design for MMO's that was VERY successful before WoW.
ok, but that is not a real AH when you have limits which restrict it to just low cost stuff - and where does this help you then?0 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »
I have no idea which of my 150 items I should try to sell? Which are likely to sell and which are just going to come back in 30 days? Which are in demand? No easy way to tell.
I can help with it - the guild UI has an activities panel - choose "sales" there and you see the actual trades happening in your guild, who has sold what to whom at which price. This way you can see what is actually selling in your location or guild and at which prices - those are not listed prices, but what customers where actually spending on these items - actual trades, not just wishful thinking - and based on that you can more easily decide which of your items to sell in that location or guild shop.
I was not aware of that, though it is quite lacking for this purpose. It does show me a list of things that were bought (I assume from the guild trader), but it is just a list and not a way to really see which items are worth selling and what price is good. It would need a lot more data for that.
The one I checked was for Thalmor Nation, a larger trading guild, but still too much noise to get much value from it.
How should I know if the latest pants drop I got is worth selling? I end up just deconstructing most for mats and I am probably losing out on gold I could make, though almost all my listing spots are full and thus I don't have room unless I cance; a listing, but I have no idea which one would be worth canceling for which item. That problem remains.
But this is always in business like that - you have to try and see if it sells, if you can't find it in the list of trades, where it was sold in the recent past. Just like I do with treasure maps currently, even I have selected the time to check this out really badly, with the event still being on. Still, I sell about a couple of them several times a day, so I will get rid of them, even they are just slowly selling in a whole compared to other items.
I could use those slots better for something else, but I really want to get rid of these treasure maps, because I'm not doing them anyway, and they are said to be good for those who are into the antiquity system - I sold them at a variety of prices (and strangely enough they sold better at higher prices) - in the end the mix will bring in my target average price - but I will take them off my listing before the weekend, because I need those spots for something what really sells quickly and like hot cakes - and eventually put those maps up in the coming week during normal weekdays again.
You need to experiment a bit - there is no way of knowing without trying, if something isn't in high demand and you can't find entries of this item in the guild activities sales panel.
Very difficult to experiment a lot with 150 max slots.
Unlimited listing which a central AH would provide would (and does in my own experience) allow much more flexibility here. I know that because I did exactly this in WoW. Playing the AH was an entire game for some, if not me. It was still much better than this system.
PC
PS4/PS52 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Calling it a lie does not make it a lie. I seriously doubt many players, if any, have actually quit due to the choice of the trading system. Zos has no reason to worry as the player base has been consistently growing. Steam indicates this as well as Zos' need to increase server capacity for both PC servers last year due to the growth of the player base.
Seems to not be an issue by any means.
It is a lie, as you are almost certainly incorrect and you know you are.
As I already said earlier, when I leave this game, this will be a fairly major deciding factor in my leaving.
It is not a lie and your comment here proves it. You are still here despite not liking the trading system. That means when you do decide to leave there are other reasons for your departure. Thanks.
No, it will not.
It will mean that a collection of problems, including this one, have come to a head and have caused me to have finally had enough.
[snip]
Look, I know the current trading system suits a handful of regulars, on here, very much.
So, they are prepared to virtually fight to the death to preserve it, with absolutely no consideration of possible modifications, ever.
However, that doesn't mean that you get to just make stuff up, without any basis in fact, without being challenged on it.
[edited for baiting]
The statement that a "collection of problems" will be the reason you leave the game proves my point that there will be other reasons that lead to your departure. Not the trading system exclusively.3 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »
I have no idea which of my 150 items I should try to sell? Which are likely to sell and which are just going to come back in 30 days? Which are in demand? No easy way to tell.
I can help with it - the guild UI has an activities panel - choose "sales" there and you see the actual trades happening in your guild, who has sold what to whom at which price. This way you can see what is actually selling in your location or guild and at which prices - those are not listed prices, but what customers where actually spending on these items - actual trades, not just wishful thinking - and based on that you can more easily decide which of your items to sell in that location or guild shop.
I was not aware of that, though it is quite lacking for this purpose. It does show me a list of things that were bought (I assume from the guild trader), but it is just a list and not a way to really see which items are worth selling and what price is good. It would need a lot more data for that.
The one I checked was for Thalmor Nation, a larger trading guild, but still too much noise to get much value from it.
How should I know if the latest pants drop I got is worth selling? I end up just deconstructing most for mats and I am probably losing out on gold I could make, though almost all my listing spots are full and thus I don't have room unless I cance; a listing, but I have no idea which one would be worth canceling for which item. That problem remains.
But this is always in business like that - you have to try and see if it sells, if you can't find it in the list of trades, where it was sold in the recent past. Just like I do with treasure maps currently, even I have selected the time to check this out really badly, with the event still being on. Still, I sell about a couple of them several times a day, so I will get rid of them, even they are just slowly selling in a whole compared to other items.
I could use those slots better for something else, but I really want to get rid of these treasure maps, because I'm not doing them anyway, and they are said to be good for those who are into the antiquity system - I sold them at a variety of prices (and strangely enough they sold better at higher prices) - in the end the mix will bring in my target average price - but I will take them off my listing before the weekend, because I need those spots for something what really sells quickly and like hot cakes - and eventually put those maps up in the coming week during normal weekdays again.
You need to experiment a bit - there is no way of knowing without trying, if something isn't in high demand and you can't find entries of this item in the guild activities sales panel.
Very difficult to experiment a lot with 150 max slots.
Unlimited listing which a central AH would provide would (and does in my own experience) allow much more flexibility here. I know that because I did exactly this in WoW. Playing the AH was an entire game for some, if not me. It was still much better than this system.
If you really can keep track of what is going on with your 150 slots and keep them stocked pretty much all the time, you are already good - if you of course just list them and then don't care for a while, this will not help you a lot. And any empty slot is not earning you anything - unlimited listing is not going to happen though - an AH full of junk is not in the interest of ZOS.
And with keeping track I mean control if someone else has under cut you and how likely it is that this is sold and you are again top of the list - if you just list it and then don't care, a lot of people will put their items on top of yours and your stuff just sits there not selling. To do that for 150 slots is work, but if you don't do it, it can well happen that you sell like nothing at all.Edited by Lysette on July 1, 2020 5:30PM2 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »
Guilds should be there for high investment / high reward. Not for literally all trading and selling in the game.
Both systems, AH and guild trade, cannot coexist - where would the costumers for guilds come from, if they can just use the AH, it would kill the system ZOS has designed for this game. If there would be an AH I would most likely as well use it and give trading a pass - and an activity I enjoyed would be lost - and immersion gone with it as well - an AH is modern stuff, whereas the guild system fits more into the game's theme. It wouldn't hurt me financially, because I have already enough and nothing really to spend it on anyway. But I would see it as a loss for the game and it's theme in a whole.
Both systems can co-exist and have in games past.
I come from SWG which as far as I'm concerned is still the standard for MMO's. They had a thriving economy that had both a public trader AND skill based player merchants. You didn't require a guild, but to have any sort of economic success it required skill investment from your character for the various Mercantile skills.
There were limits to what could be put on the public trader, so public traders were for low level and low cost inventory while the high quality big money inventory would be kept on the player's personal merchants at their shops they had spread through the world.
People would often use their goods on public traders to advertise their own shops, so if someone wanted higher quality mats or gear, they could get that information.
Thinking it can't be done is such a narrow way of looking. Fact is, mainstream MMO's have become very formulaic since the success of WoW, and devs and even the player base have forgotten about game design for MMO's that was VERY successful before WoW.
ok, but that is not a real AH when you have limits which restrict it to just low cost stuff - and where does this help you then?
It would help me because it would give me a place I could sell spare gear I come across, while maintaining a system that if someone wants to have heavy economic success, they can't rely on just spare junk on the public trader but still have to put in the work and investment in their character's contribution and return from the economy.
You seem to remain under the misunderstanding that I want massive economic results from little economic investment.
I do not. I *want* people to have an end game economic option to build and aspire to, and in this game, guild traders are that. I do not want guild traders removed. I want guild traders in the game for high level crafters / traders / sellers to run their in game business.
But alongside that should be a public trader that gives regular players at least a limited capacity to sell gear and mats and resources to help drive their own income.
I dont need to be able to sell large stacks of high end potions, or fully upgraded, traited, and gold enchanted gear on a public trader. But when I loot some spare pieces of Mother's Sorrow or Necropotence that I know have value, I'd like to be able to get a little return for them rather than just deconning them and they go to waste.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »
Guilds should be there for high investment / high reward. Not for literally all trading and selling in the game.
Both systems, AH and guild trade, cannot coexist - where would the costumers for guilds come from, if they can just use the AH, it would kill the system ZOS has designed for this game. If there would be an AH I would most likely as well use it and give trading a pass - and an activity I enjoyed would be lost - and immersion gone with it as well - an AH is modern stuff, whereas the guild system fits more into the game's theme. It wouldn't hurt me financially, because I have already enough and nothing really to spend it on anyway. But I would see it as a loss for the game and it's theme in a whole.
Both systems can co-exist and have in games past.
I come from SWG which as far as I'm concerned is still the standard for MMO's. They had a thriving economy that had both a public trader AND skill based player merchants. You didn't require a guild, but to have any sort of economic success it required skill investment from your character for the various Mercantile skills.
There were limits to what could be put on the public trader, so public traders were for low level and low cost inventory while the high quality big money inventory would be kept on the player's personal merchants at their shops they had spread through the world.
People would often use their goods on public traders to advertise their own shops, so if someone wanted higher quality mats or gear, they could get that information.
Thinking it can't be done is such a narrow way of looking. Fact is, mainstream MMO's have become very formulaic since the success of WoW, and devs and even the player base have forgotten about game design for MMO's that was VERY successful before WoW.
iirc, there were restrictions for both traders. So it is not a valid example for both guild traders and a central hub.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »
I have no idea which of my 150 items I should try to sell? Which are likely to sell and which are just going to come back in 30 days? Which are in demand? No easy way to tell.
I can help with it - the guild UI has an activities panel - choose "sales" there and you see the actual trades happening in your guild, who has sold what to whom at which price. This way you can see what is actually selling in your location or guild and at which prices - those are not listed prices, but what customers where actually spending on these items - actual trades, not just wishful thinking - and based on that you can more easily decide which of your items to sell in that location or guild shop.
I was not aware of that, though it is quite lacking for this purpose. It does show me a list of things that were bought (I assume from the guild trader), but it is just a list and not a way to really see which items are worth selling and what price is good. It would need a lot more data for that.
The one I checked was for Thalmor Nation, a larger trading guild, but still too much noise to get much value from it.
How should I know if the latest pants drop I got is worth selling? I end up just deconstructing most for mats and I am probably losing out on gold I could make, though almost all my listing spots are full and thus I don't have room unless I cance; a listing, but I have no idea which one would be worth canceling for which item. That problem remains.
It is unfortunate that consoles do not have the use of add-ons. Well, it is more unfortunate that Zos abandoned the more traditional MMORPG UI and decided (PC) players would develop add-ons to finish out the UI. Why MS, Sony, and Zos have not figured out how to make add-ons on console work is beyond me.
However, the path is to bring functionality to the base game as Zos has done in other situations. Something like Master Merchant could be done in a manner that would be much less impactful on the game's performance than a central trading system. While I do not recall having issues before I found that addon, it is my preferred trading addon.1 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »
Guilds should be there for high investment / high reward. Not for literally all trading and selling in the game.
Both systems, AH and guild trade, cannot coexist - where would the costumers for guilds come from, if they can just use the AH, it would kill the system ZOS has designed for this game. If there would be an AH I would most likely as well use it and give trading a pass - and an activity I enjoyed would be lost - and immersion gone with it as well - an AH is modern stuff, whereas the guild system fits more into the game's theme. It wouldn't hurt me financially, because I have already enough and nothing really to spend it on anyway. But I would see it as a loss for the game and it's theme in a whole.
Both systems can co-exist and have in games past.
I come from SWG which as far as I'm concerned is still the standard for MMO's. They had a thriving economy that had both a public trader AND skill based player merchants. You didn't require a guild, but to have any sort of economic success it required skill investment from your character for the various Mercantile skills.
There were limits to what could be put on the public trader, so public traders were for low level and low cost inventory while the high quality big money inventory would be kept on the player's personal merchants at their shops they had spread through the world.
People would often use their goods on public traders to advertise their own shops, so if someone wanted higher quality mats or gear, they could get that information.
Thinking it can't be done is such a narrow way of looking. Fact is, mainstream MMO's have become very formulaic since the success of WoW, and devs and even the player base have forgotten about game design for MMO's that was VERY successful before WoW.
iirc, there were restrictions for both traders. So it is not a valid example for both guild traders and a central hub.
Why isn't it?
The restrictions were on players who didn't want to invest into their economic skills. They were limited to the public traders.
Those who did invest in their economic skills got access to numerous personal traders, on their own self selected plot of land, and could sell whatever they wanted for as much as they wanted.
That is the epitome of a co-existence.
In ESO, someone like me would be able to toss some random loot on a public trader to make some extra gold while those who are investing in the economic side of the game will have bigger gains and rewards through the guild trader system2 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »
Guilds should be there for high investment / high reward. Not for literally all trading and selling in the game.
Both systems, AH and guild trade, cannot coexist - where would the costumers for guilds come from, if they can just use the AH, it would kill the system ZOS has designed for this game. If there would be an AH I would most likely as well use it and give trading a pass - and an activity I enjoyed would be lost - and immersion gone with it as well - an AH is modern stuff, whereas the guild system fits more into the game's theme. It wouldn't hurt me financially, because I have already enough and nothing really to spend it on anyway. But I would see it as a loss for the game and it's theme in a whole.
Both systems can co-exist and have in games past.
I come from SWG which as far as I'm concerned is still the standard for MMO's. They had a thriving economy that had both a public trader AND skill based player merchants. You didn't require a guild, but to have any sort of economic success it required skill investment from your character for the various Mercantile skills.
There were limits to what could be put on the public trader, so public traders were for low level and low cost inventory while the high quality big money inventory would be kept on the player's personal merchants at their shops they had spread through the world.
People would often use their goods on public traders to advertise their own shops, so if someone wanted higher quality mats or gear, they could get that information.
Thinking it can't be done is such a narrow way of looking. Fact is, mainstream MMO's have become very formulaic since the success of WoW, and devs and even the player base have forgotten about game design for MMO's that was VERY successful before WoW.
ok, but that is not a real AH when you have limits which restrict it to just low cost stuff - and where does this help you then?
It would help me because it would give me a place I could sell spare gear I come across, while maintaining a system that if someone wants to have heavy economic success, they can't rely on just spare junk on the public trader but still have to put in the work and investment in their character's contribution and return from the economy.
You seem to remain under the misunderstanding that I want massive economic results from little economic investment.
I do not. I *want* people to have an end game economic option to build and aspire to, and in this game, guild traders are that. I do not want guild traders removed. I want guild traders in the game for high level crafters / traders / sellers to run their in game business.
But alongside that should be a public trader that gives regular players at least a limited capacity to sell gear and mats and resources to help drive their own income.
I dont need to be able to sell large stacks of high end potions, or fully upgraded, traited, and gold enchanted gear on a public trader. But when I loot some spare pieces of Mother's Sorrow or Necropotence that I know have value, I'd like to be able to get a little return for them rather than just deconning them and they go to waste.
I'm for such an option for newbies to sell their items at an average market price - I thought of general merchants instead of actually listing these items - going to the void, but offering real newbies for some time to offload their stuff - this idea is somewhat similar - I would just not make this available for everyone - and as well limit it to items a newbie normally has, otherwise this could be abused.
But I see where you are coming from - this could eventually be offered in a different way, with a limited number of listings per week for example - so that it really is just for those, who want to get rid of a few pieces - and if they want to sell more, they would have to use the guild system.Edited by Lysette on July 1, 2020 5:49PM0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »
Guilds should be there for high investment / high reward. Not for literally all trading and selling in the game.
Both systems, AH and guild trade, cannot coexist - where would the costumers for guilds come from, if they can just use the AH, it would kill the system ZOS has designed for this game. If there would be an AH I would most likely as well use it and give trading a pass - and an activity I enjoyed would be lost - and immersion gone with it as well - an AH is modern stuff, whereas the guild system fits more into the game's theme. It wouldn't hurt me financially, because I have already enough and nothing really to spend it on anyway. But I would see it as a loss for the game and it's theme in a whole.
Both systems can co-exist and have in games past.
I come from SWG which as far as I'm concerned is still the standard for MMO's. They had a thriving economy that had both a public trader AND skill based player merchants. You didn't require a guild, but to have any sort of economic success it required skill investment from your character for the various Mercantile skills.
There were limits to what could be put on the public trader, so public traders were for low level and low cost inventory while the high quality big money inventory would be kept on the player's personal merchants at their shops they had spread through the world.
People would often use their goods on public traders to advertise their own shops, so if someone wanted higher quality mats or gear, they could get that information.
Thinking it can't be done is such a narrow way of looking. Fact is, mainstream MMO's have become very formulaic since the success of WoW, and devs and even the player base have forgotten about game design for MMO's that was VERY successful before WoW.
iirc, there were restrictions for both traders. So it is not a valid example for both guild traders and a central hub.
Why isn't it?
The restrictions were on players who didn't want to invest into their economic skills. They were limited to the public traders.
Those who did invest in their economic skills got access to numerous personal traders, on their own self selected plot of land, and could sell whatever they wanted for as much as they wanted.
That is the epitome of a co-existence.
In ESO, someone like me would be able to toss some random loot on a public trader to make some extra gold while those who are investing in the economic side of the game will have bigger gains and rewards through the guild trader system
The value to crafting is insignificant in ESO. It is a complete joke Food is cheap, Armor, weapons, and jewelry crafted sets are far from BiS. The big value to leveling up crafting skill lines is upgrading armor and weapons, and changing traits. That cannot be sold to other players.
So again, the comparison is not very comparable.2 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »
Guilds should be there for high investment / high reward. Not for literally all trading and selling in the game.
Both systems, AH and guild trade, cannot coexist - where would the costumers for guilds come from, if they can just use the AH, it would kill the system ZOS has designed for this game. If there would be an AH I would most likely as well use it and give trading a pass - and an activity I enjoyed would be lost - and immersion gone with it as well - an AH is modern stuff, whereas the guild system fits more into the game's theme. It wouldn't hurt me financially, because I have already enough and nothing really to spend it on anyway. But I would see it as a loss for the game and it's theme in a whole.
Both systems can co-exist and have in games past.
I come from SWG which as far as I'm concerned is still the standard for MMO's. They had a thriving economy that had both a public trader AND skill based player merchants. You didn't require a guild, but to have any sort of economic success it required skill investment from your character for the various Mercantile skills.
There were limits to what could be put on the public trader, so public traders were for low level and low cost inventory while the high quality big money inventory would be kept on the player's personal merchants at their shops they had spread through the world.
People would often use their goods on public traders to advertise their own shops, so if someone wanted higher quality mats or gear, they could get that information.
Thinking it can't be done is such a narrow way of looking. Fact is, mainstream MMO's have become very formulaic since the success of WoW, and devs and even the player base have forgotten about game design for MMO's that was VERY successful before WoW.
iirc, there were restrictions for both traders. So it is not a valid example for both guild traders and a central hub.
Why isn't it?
The restrictions were on players who didn't want to invest into their economic skills. They were limited to the public traders.
Those who did invest in their economic skills got access to numerous personal traders, on their own self selected plot of land, and could sell whatever they wanted for as much as they wanted.
That is the epitome of a co-existence.
In ESO, someone like me would be able to toss some random loot on a public trader to make some extra gold while those who are investing in the economic side of the game will have bigger gains and rewards through the guild trader system
The value to crafting is insignificant in ESO. It is a complete joke Food is cheap, Armor, weapons, and jewelry crafted sets are far from BiS. The big value to leveling up crafting skill lines is upgrading armor and weapons, and changing traits. That cannot be sold to other players.
So again, the comparison is not very comparable.
Yes, indeed - if I would need something a guild member would certainly offer it for free even, if I bring the materials - and give him a generous tip anyway, just for good measures - so I see no market for crafted gear as well.0 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »
Guilds should be there for high investment / high reward. Not for literally all trading and selling in the game.
Both systems, AH and guild trade, cannot coexist - where would the costumers for guilds come from, if they can just use the AH, it would kill the system ZOS has designed for this game. If there would be an AH I would most likely as well use it and give trading a pass - and an activity I enjoyed would be lost - and immersion gone with it as well - an AH is modern stuff, whereas the guild system fits more into the game's theme. It wouldn't hurt me financially, because I have already enough and nothing really to spend it on anyway. But I would see it as a loss for the game and it's theme in a whole.
Both systems can co-exist and have in games past.
I come from SWG which as far as I'm concerned is still the standard for MMO's. They had a thriving economy that had both a public trader AND skill based player merchants. You didn't require a guild, but to have any sort of economic success it required skill investment from your character for the various Mercantile skills.
There were limits to what could be put on the public trader, so public traders were for low level and low cost inventory while the high quality big money inventory would be kept on the player's personal merchants at their shops they had spread through the world.
People would often use their goods on public traders to advertise their own shops, so if someone wanted higher quality mats or gear, they could get that information.
Thinking it can't be done is such a narrow way of looking. Fact is, mainstream MMO's have become very formulaic since the success of WoW, and devs and even the player base have forgotten about game design for MMO's that was VERY successful before WoW.
iirc, there were restrictions for both traders. So it is not a valid example for both guild traders and a central hub.
Why isn't it?
The restrictions were on players who didn't want to invest into their economic skills. They were limited to the public traders.
Those who did invest in their economic skills got access to numerous personal traders, on their own self selected plot of land, and could sell whatever they wanted for as much as they wanted.
That is the epitome of a co-existence.
In ESO, someone like me would be able to toss some random loot on a public trader to make some extra gold while those who are investing in the economic side of the game will have bigger gains and rewards through the guild trader system
The value to crafting is insignificant in ESO. It is a complete joke Food is cheap, Armor, weapons, and jewelry crafted sets are far from BiS. The big value to leveling up crafting skill lines is upgrading armor and weapons, and changing traits. That cannot be sold to other players.
So again, the comparison is not very comparable.
It is comparable, but what you bring up points to the reason why the whole ESO economy is a joke to begin with.
The best gear is looted, not crafted, and outside a couple specific overland sets, the best gear comes out of trials and dungeons and can't be traded anyways. So you're right, traders aren't crafting their own goods to sell. So why do we need this convoluted guild system to begin with?
The only thing thats really being sold are the mats needed to craft and upgrade, but the finished product isnt even being sold anyways. The market is all consumables - pots, food buffs, glyphs, and some upgraded overland sets.
This game thinks its player economy is bigger and more important than it actually is2 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »But every guild with I guess at least 50 members has a guild shop - even if they have no NPC trader, there is a shop where you could offer it to other members - and if you really want just a small amount of money for it, this would be the place to do it. Not every guild has an NPC trader and if you just want to sell sets of this kind, other members could make use of what you acquired this way - so the opportunity is there.
And I'm limiting my potential selling base to 50 - 500 people tops, instead of allowing it to be accessible to anyone who might be able to use that gear, greatly decreasing my odds of selling anything. I haven't even been able to sell Mother's Sorrow at below market rate because my audience is so limited. That's being in multiple guilds.
There is 0 valid reason for funneling ALL ability to sell in this game through guilds.
Guilds should be there for high investment / high reward. Not for literally all trading and selling in the game.
There is no reason to have multiple player to player trading methods. Especially when the only reasons given for alternatives is(disclaimer:the following is not directed at anyone.)
* I dont want to be in a trading guild
* I want to be able to shop all of the known universe without leaving my current location.
* I want to see penny wars and cutthroating so i can get bargain basement pricing for the 6 months people try to sell stuff for a profit on AH before giving up.
* I think they should develop the game how i want, because what i want matters the most to me and it should to everyone else as well.
* I want to be able to sell my stuff without having to put any effort into it.
7 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Its not that high of demand. Most pieces dont break 1k and there are dozens of each piece available for sale. I know this because i used The global auction houseamm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »But every guild with I guess at least 50 members has a guild shop - even if they have no NPC trader, there is a shop where you could offer it to other members - and if you really want just a small amount of money for it, this would be the place to do it. Not every guild has an NPC trader and if you just want to sell sets of this kind, other members could make use of what you acquired this way - so the opportunity is there.
And I'm limiting my potential selling base to 50 - 500 people tops, instead of allowing it to be accessible to anyone who might be able to use that gear, greatly decreasing my odds of selling anything. I haven't even been able to sell Mother's Sorrow at below market rate because my audience is so limited. That's being in multiple guilds.
There is 0 valid reason for funneling ALL ability to sell in this game through guilds.
Guilds should be there for high investment / high reward. Not for literally all trading and selling in the game.
I saw mother's Sorrow offered in zone chat quite often - guess it is simply pretty common currently and not that easy to sell therefore. But then again, I have no real knowledge about items like this, it is just an eventually naive guess of mine.
It's in high demand. Highly regarded as a "meta" set. Can go for some very high prices.
Its not selling because you either priced it to high, or demand has greatly dropped. The law of supply and demand. The market is saturated with it causing lower prices and longer turnovers.
Thats ok the market is over saturated.Which means it gets wasted and taken out of the economy.
[snip]But the system of this game has determined that I cannot sell *any*thing because I don't join a trading guild.
That is inappropriate game design.
Must not have been to successful... you are here trying to sell an over-saturated item without using a trade system.I come from too many other games that have set too much past precedent for successful economies with public trading
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on July 5, 2020 11:17AM4 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »
Guilds should be there for high investment / high reward. Not for literally all trading and selling in the game.
Both systems, AH and guild trade, cannot coexist - where would the costumers for guilds come from, if they can just use the AH, it would kill the system ZOS has designed for this game. If there would be an AH I would most likely as well use it and give trading a pass - and an activity I enjoyed would be lost - and immersion gone with it as well - an AH is modern stuff, whereas the guild system fits more into the game's theme. It wouldn't hurt me financially, because I have already enough and nothing really to spend it on anyway. But I would see it as a loss for the game and it's theme in a whole.
Both systems can co-exist and have in games past.
I come from SWG which as far as I'm concerned is still the standard for MMO's. They had a thriving economy that had both a public trader AND skill based player merchants. You didn't require a guild, but to have any sort of economic success it required skill investment from your character for the various Mercantile skills.
There were limits to what could be put on the public trader, so public traders were for low level and low cost inventory while the high quality big money inventory would be kept on the player's personal merchants at their shops they had spread through the world.
People would often use their goods on public traders to advertise their own shops, so if someone wanted higher quality mats or gear, they could get that information.
Thinking it can't be done is such a narrow way of looking. Fact is, mainstream MMO's have become very formulaic since the success of WoW, and devs and even the player base have forgotten about game design for MMO's that was VERY successful before WoW.
iirc, there were restrictions for both traders. So it is not a valid example for both guild traders and a central hub.
Why isn't it?
The restrictions were on players who didn't want to invest into their economic skills. They were limited to the public traders.
Those who did invest in their economic skills got access to numerous personal traders, on their own self selected plot of land, and could sell whatever they wanted for as much as they wanted.
That is the epitome of a co-existence.
In ESO, someone like me would be able to toss some random loot on a public trader to make some extra gold while those who are investing in the economic side of the game will have bigger gains and rewards through the guild trader system
The value to crafting is insignificant in ESO. It is a complete joke Food is cheap, Armor, weapons, and jewelry crafted sets are far from BiS. The big value to leveling up crafting skill lines is upgrading armor and weapons, and changing traits. That cannot be sold to other players.
So again, the comparison is not very comparable.
It is comparable, but what you bring up points to the reason why the whole ESO economy is a joke to begin with.
I spoke only to the part of crafting. There are a lot of items to sell outside of crafted items. Materials for crafting is a big part of the market in ESO, just not the crafting itself. So not a joke in its entirety nor is it comparable.0 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anotherone773 wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »But every guild with I guess at least 50 members has a guild shop - even if they have no NPC trader, there is a shop where you could offer it to other members - and if you really want just a small amount of money for it, this would be the place to do it. Not every guild has an NPC trader and if you just want to sell sets of this kind, other members could make use of what you acquired this way - so the opportunity is there.
And I'm limiting my potential selling base to 50 - 500 people tops, instead of allowing it to be accessible to anyone who might be able to use that gear, greatly decreasing my odds of selling anything. I haven't even been able to sell Mother's Sorrow at below market rate because my audience is so limited. That's being in multiple guilds.
There is 0 valid reason for funneling ALL ability to sell in this game through guilds.
Guilds should be there for high investment / high reward. Not for literally all trading and selling in the game.
There is no reason to have multiple player to player trading methods. Especially when the only reasons given for alternatives is(disclaimer:the following is not directed at anyone.)
* I dont want to be in a trading guild
* I want to be able to shop all of the known universe without leaving my current location.
* I want to see penny wars and cutthroating so i can get bargain basement pricing for the 6 months people try to sell stuff for a profit on AH before giving up.
* I think they should develop the game how i want, because what i want matters the most to me and it should to everyone else as well.
* I want to be able to sell my stuff without having to put any effort into it.
Sure there is.
There is however, 0 reason to railroad all economic activity through guilds. It is not practical, nor is it realistic.
All of those things you just mentioned are the melodrama you're accusing me of - you somehow think that using guild traders is "more effort", and therefore, you are more deserving of being able to partake in that part of the game. It's a symptom of elitism. Your entire response here can be summed up with: "I don't want things to be more user friendly for others, because I am personally benefiting from it monetarily and my individual gains are more important than functionality for the bulk of the game's users"2 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »
Guilds should be there for high investment / high reward. Not for literally all trading and selling in the game.
Both systems, AH and guild trade, cannot coexist - where would the costumers for guilds come from, if they can just use the AH, it would kill the system ZOS has designed for this game. If there would be an AH I would most likely as well use it and give trading a pass - and an activity I enjoyed would be lost - and immersion gone with it as well - an AH is modern stuff, whereas the guild system fits more into the game's theme. It wouldn't hurt me financially, because I have already enough and nothing really to spend it on anyway. But I would see it as a loss for the game and it's theme in a whole.
Both systems can co-exist and have in games past.
I come from SWG which as far as I'm concerned is still the standard for MMO's. They had a thriving economy that had both a public trader AND skill based player merchants. You didn't require a guild, but to have any sort of economic success it required skill investment from your character for the various Mercantile skills.
There were limits to what could be put on the public trader, so public traders were for low level and low cost inventory while the high quality big money inventory would be kept on the player's personal merchants at their shops they had spread through the world.
People would often use their goods on public traders to advertise their own shops, so if someone wanted higher quality mats or gear, they could get that information.
Thinking it can't be done is such a narrow way of looking. Fact is, mainstream MMO's have become very formulaic since the success of WoW, and devs and even the player base have forgotten about game design for MMO's that was VERY successful before WoW.
iirc, there were restrictions for both traders. So it is not a valid example for both guild traders and a central hub.
Why isn't it?
The restrictions were on players who didn't want to invest into their economic skills. They were limited to the public traders.
Those who did invest in their economic skills got access to numerous personal traders, on their own self selected plot of land, and could sell whatever they wanted for as much as they wanted.
That is the epitome of a co-existence.
In ESO, someone like me would be able to toss some random loot on a public trader to make some extra gold while those who are investing in the economic side of the game will have bigger gains and rewards through the guild trader system
The value to crafting is insignificant in ESO. It is a complete joke Food is cheap, Armor, weapons, and jewelry crafted sets are far from BiS. The big value to leveling up crafting skill lines is upgrading armor and weapons, and changing traits. That cannot be sold to other players.
So again, the comparison is not very comparable.
It is comparable, but what you bring up points to the reason why the whole ESO economy is a joke to begin with.
I spoke only to the part of crafting. There are a lot of items to sell outside of crafted items. Materials for crafting is a big part of the market in ESO, just not the crafting itself. So not a joke in its entirety nor is it comparable.
Mats for crafting, for a crafting system that is wholly irrelevant.2 -
OmniDo✭✭✭✭✭I'm all for a public AH, as opposed to the system currently being used.
It's not like I shop from vendor to vendor anyway, since I just use Tamrieltradecentre.
There are plenty of gold-sinks as it is now.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »
Guilds should be there for high investment / high reward. Not for literally all trading and selling in the game.
Both systems, AH and guild trade, cannot coexist - where would the costumers for guilds come from, if they can just use the AH, it would kill the system ZOS has designed for this game. If there would be an AH I would most likely as well use it and give trading a pass - and an activity I enjoyed would be lost - and immersion gone with it as well - an AH is modern stuff, whereas the guild system fits more into the game's theme. It wouldn't hurt me financially, because I have already enough and nothing really to spend it on anyway. But I would see it as a loss for the game and it's theme in a whole.
Both systems can co-exist and have in games past.
I come from SWG which as far as I'm concerned is still the standard for MMO's. They had a thriving economy that had both a public trader AND skill based player merchants. You didn't require a guild, but to have any sort of economic success it required skill investment from your character for the various Mercantile skills.
There were limits to what could be put on the public trader, so public traders were for low level and low cost inventory while the high quality big money inventory would be kept on the player's personal merchants at their shops they had spread through the world.
People would often use their goods on public traders to advertise their own shops, so if someone wanted higher quality mats or gear, they could get that information.
Thinking it can't be done is such a narrow way of looking. Fact is, mainstream MMO's have become very formulaic since the success of WoW, and devs and even the player base have forgotten about game design for MMO's that was VERY successful before WoW.
iirc, there were restrictions for both traders. So it is not a valid example for both guild traders and a central hub.
Why isn't it?
The restrictions were on players who didn't want to invest into their economic skills. They were limited to the public traders.
Those who did invest in their economic skills got access to numerous personal traders, on their own self selected plot of land, and could sell whatever they wanted for as much as they wanted.
That is the epitome of a co-existence.
In ESO, someone like me would be able to toss some random loot on a public trader to make some extra gold while those who are investing in the economic side of the game will have bigger gains and rewards through the guild trader system
The value to crafting is insignificant in ESO. It is a complete joke Food is cheap, Armor, weapons, and jewelry crafted sets are far from BiS. The big value to leveling up crafting skill lines is upgrading armor and weapons, and changing traits. That cannot be sold to other players.
So again, the comparison is not very comparable.
It is comparable, but what you bring up points to the reason why the whole ESO economy is a joke to begin with.
I spoke only to the part of crafting. There are a lot of items to sell outside of crafted items. Materials for crafting is a big part of the market in ESO, just not the crafting itself. So not a joke in its entirety nor is it comparable.
Mats for crafting, for a crafting system that is wholly irrelevant.
Materials for crafting is a big part of our in-game economy. Hard to think of them as irrelevant to the in-game economy.2
This discussion has been closed.