nerfs are needed again, yes in pvp

HalvarIronfist · July 2020

Sergykid wrote: »

damage is out of control, one shotting is worse than ever. It was a good direction with the nerfs this patch brought when tanks were out of control, but now damage is absurd. 5k dizzys 7k snipes and that on a capped (and a bit over) resistances tank that applies maim on the enemies. The newly added sets over the last period together with the new p2w item Malacath's Band of Brutality have made surviving quite difficult if not impossible.

you have added base crit resist and the Critical Riposte set (which is very weak btw, tested it) and then added that mythic item which takes out crits from one's damage output and can be paired together with Unchained Aggressor for impossible bursts (Essence Thief is also a busted set but currently is quite underestimated).
And i won't talk about the Draugrkin's Grip that is so strong in pvp that even stamina users use it for Bloodthirst spam with multiple dots on the target, i got melted while blocking on my full tank, from poisons bleeds and status effects which all and each one proc from the set without any limitations or cooldown between ticks.

there are more examples but i think the idea is clear. I obviously talk about no cp pvp. In cp pvp there's full of clowns both for damage and tanking, so no arguments here.

So; let me understand this. 1. "The nerfs were in a good direction". The nerfs : Nerfing healing in PVP, and defensive sets. (For instance, Bloodspawn.)

2. Now the damage is too high, I'm getting one shot!

Do you potentially see the irony here? I didn't have a problem with unkillable builds before. (At least, those that weren't primarily driven to be tanks.)

Yes, damage is "higher" considering the counters were nerfed. That... was the intended goal. Now nothings unkillable, and if you nerf damage right after nerfing defenses and healing... you're back where you started.

Now.. If you spend some time theorycrafting, I promise you can come up with a next "unkillable" build. Hell, it took me a week and I figured out a build for my stamdk that I wanted to use in nocp only... to find that it was melting people in CP, while being able to survive just fine in 1v1/1vx scenarios.

Sergykid · July 2020

yes tanking took its bill but damage should have not been buffed so much. One hit to the tanking was enough, also buffing so high the damage is too much. Going from unkillable to impossible to survive is too much of a carousel. In no cp there already was impossible to not die as tank, but now it's impossible to resist as much. If before as tank in no cp you would have survived a burst and maybe 30 seconds before you die, now you can't last 10 seconds against one player.

defense took two hits at once, one with direct nerf and one with buffing the opposite. If they nerfed tanking then shouldn't have buffed damage, and if buffed damage it shouldn't have nerfed tanking.

Fur_like_snow · July 2020

So your stalemate build from last patch can’t stalemate anymore? What’s the issue. Just sounds like it’s time to go back to the drawing board and do some theory crafting.

Sergykid · July 2020

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

So your stalemate build from last patch can’t stalemate anymore? What’s the issue. Just sounds like it’s time to go back to the drawing board and do some theory crafting.

please read more carefully next time. Why it had to be another one that just comes to bash without reading
i don't intend on playing stalemate, it's not normal to survive forever under pressure. Even though my enemy doesn't seem to ever run out of resources, well for some reason i do. But i die either before i drain my resources, either because they go down too fast out of high enemy pressure.
If it used two bursts or 30 seconds for me to die, now i can die in a single burst or in 10 seconds, and that's on a defensive playstyle

relentless_turnip · July 2020

Sergykid wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

So your stalemate build from last patch can’t stalemate anymore? What’s the issue. Just sounds like it’s time to go back to the drawing board and do some theory crafting.

please read more carefully next time. Why it had to be another one that just comes to bash without reading
i don't intend on playing stalemate, it's not normal to survive forever under pressure. Even though my enemy doesn't seem to ever run out of resources, well for some reason i do. But i die either before i drain my resources, either because they go down too fast out of high enemy pressure.
If it used two bursts or 30 seconds for me to die, now i can die in a single burst or in 10 seconds, and that's on a defensive playstyle

Why don't you just post your build and we can help you. Most people I speak to are enjoying this patch(performance aside). I ask for help frequently, rather advice or to test stuff.

Adding a purge if you can helps, if not mist form, streak, cloak etc... You can wear 4 well fitted or sturdy and still have as much crit resist as last patch. This patch definetly encourages active defence, but so many avenues. You can also wear endurance on your back bar, depending on your food and armor type this will increase health recovery massively.

I feel we would have less nerf requests if people were willing to ask for help. The reduced healing was definetly a learning curve, but damage got only a small buff imo. So much build diversity this patch because there are a lot of avenues you can take. Defensively and offensively.

Fur_like_snow · July 2020

Sounds like you haven't theory crafted a build for this patch coupled with your unwillingness to admit that the problem is a play style issue not a patch issue sounds like it’s at the core of it all. Dying with full or close to full resources means you could have done something but that’s on you as a player.

Dracane · July 2020

Everything @Sergykid writes just makes me happier and reinforces my opinion that this patch was a good move.
That is exactly how it should be I think. If you only play defensively without doing any effort to interrupt your opponents onslaught, then you should die. People who only stand there blocking and spamming heals will never turn the tides.

From my experience, offense is the best defense. Pressuring your opponent is the best way to mitigate damage and also less braindead than a turtle playstyle.

As the comment above me said, it is a playstyle issue. I had to adjust my mindset a lot this patch and now it's okay and I enjoy it.

Firstmep · July 2020

Dracane wrote: »

Everything @Sergykid writes just makes me happier and reinforces my opinion that this patch was a good move.
That is exactly how it should be I think. If you only play defensively without doing any effort to interrupt your opponents onslaught, then you should die. People who only stand there blocking and spamming heals will never turn the tides.

From my experience, offense is the best defense. Pressuring your opponent is the best way to mitigate damage and also less braindead than a turtle playstyle.

Those block builds arent meant to turn the tide, just to hold out until their zerg arrives.

Sergykid · July 2020

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

So your stalemate build from last patch can’t stalemate anymore? What’s the issue. Just sounds like it’s time to go back to the drawing board and do some theory crafting.

please read more carefully next time. Why it had to be another one that just comes to bash without reading
i don't intend on playing stalemate, it's not normal to survive forever under pressure. Even though my enemy doesn't seem to ever run out of resources, well for some reason i do. But i die either before i drain my resources, either because they go down too fast out of high enemy pressure.
If it used two bursts or 30 seconds for me to die, now i can die in a single burst or in 10 seconds, and that's on a defensive playstyle

Why don't you just post your build and we can help you. Most people I speak to are enjoying this patch(performance aside). I ask for help frequently, rather advice or to test stuff.

Adding a purge if you can helps, if not mist form, streak, cloak etc... You can wear 4 well fitted or sturdy and still have as much crit resist as last patch. This patch definetly encourages active defence, but so many avenues. You can also wear endurance on your back bar, depending on your food and armor type this will increase health recovery massively.

I feel we would have less nerf requests if people were willing to ask for help. The reduced healing was definetly a learning curve, but damage got only a small buff imo. So much build diversity this patch because there are a lot of avenues you can take. Defensively and offensively.

again, i already mentioned. I did try different builds, including the health recovery you mentioned. And i play a dk for tank, no streak cloak etc. And i also tested not only full impen, also full sturdy, half sturdy, 2 pieces sturdy, etc. 3 pieces well fitted also tested (in heavy armor tho).

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Sounds like you haven't theory crafted a build for this patch coupled with your unwillingness to admit that the problem is a play style issue not a patch issue sounds like it’s at the core of it all. Dying with full or close to full resources means you could have done something but that’s on you as a player.

i die in the break free animation, this means in a single second from bursts of two people. And even dodge rolling doesn't help, i die during the roll. I already specified these, but oh well another one.

Sergykid · July 2020

Dracane wrote: »

Everything @Sergykid writes just makes me happier and reinforces my opinion that this patch was a good move.
That is exactly how it should be I think. If you only play defensively without doing any effort to interrupt your opponents onslaught, then you should die. People who only stand there blocking and spamming heals will never turn the tides.

From my experience, offense is the best defense. Pressuring your opponent is the best way to mitigate damage and also less braindead than a turtle playstyle.

As the comment above me said, it is a playstyle issue. I had to adjust my mindset a lot this patch and now it's okay and I enjoy it.

this forum really is full of this kind of people. Nobody to pick on? i don't mind, relax.
i don't play braindead turtle playstyle, i don't stay there holding block expecting to resist. I do debuff, i do damage, i also do my kills, k/d ratio is positive.
what i talk about is the amount of time i survive, and if two people attack me at once i can't even survive to recover, considering i am a tank.

Fur_like_snow · July 2020

No wonder you get so much pushback in the comments when all you can suggest is nerfs.

TTK was to high for to long and if you’re attacked by two DPS players in NO CP you should die in less than ten seconds. Everything you’ve said in this thread confirms my thoughts.

Dracane · July 2020

Sergykid wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Everything @Sergykid writes just makes me happier and reinforces my opinion that this patch was a good move.
That is exactly how it should be I think. If you only play defensively without doing any effort to interrupt your opponents onslaught, then you should die. People who only stand there blocking and spamming heals will never turn the tides.

From my experience, offense is the best defense. Pressuring your opponent is the best way to mitigate damage and also less braindead than a turtle playstyle.

As the comment above me said, it is a playstyle issue. I had to adjust my mindset a lot this patch and now it's okay and I enjoy it.

this forum really is full of this kind of people. Nobody to pick on? i don't mind, relax.
i don't play braindead turtle playstyle, i don't stay there holding block expecting to resist. I do debuff, i do damage, i also do my kills, k/d ratio is positive.
what i talk about is the amount of time i survive, and if two people attack me at once i can't even survive to recover, considering i am a tank.

I do not mean to attack you. I merely disagree entirely.
Tanks are a plague in pvp and I would not shed a single tear if they can finally perish.

Khatou · July 2020

in BG, 1 shot you lose almost half of your life in impenetrable full or sometimes more, GG Zenimax, otherwise you'll manage to make a game one day?

relentless_turnip · July 2020

Sergykid wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

So your stalemate build from last patch can’t stalemate anymore? What’s the issue. Just sounds like it’s time to go back to the drawing board and do some theory crafting.

please read more carefully next time. Why it had to be another one that just comes to bash without reading
i don't intend on playing stalemate, it's not normal to survive forever under pressure. Even though my enemy doesn't seem to ever run out of resources, well for some reason i do. But i die either before i drain my resources, either because they go down too fast out of high enemy pressure.
If it used two bursts or 30 seconds for me to die, now i can die in a single burst or in 10 seconds, and that's on a defensive playstyle

Why don't you just post your build and we can help you. Most people I speak to are enjoying this patch(performance aside). I ask for help frequently, rather advice or to test stuff.

Adding a purge if you can helps, if not mist form, streak, cloak etc... You can wear 4 well fitted or sturdy and still have as much crit resist as last patch. This patch definetly encourages active defence, but so many avenues. You can also wear endurance on your back bar, depending on your food and armor type this will increase health recovery massively.

I feel we would have less nerf requests if people were willing to ask for help. The reduced healing was definetly a learning curve, but damage got only a small buff imo. So much build diversity this patch because there are a lot of avenues you can take. Defensively and offensively.

again, i already mentioned. I did try different builds, including the health recovery you mentioned. And i play a dk for tank, no streak cloak etc. And i also tested not only full impen, also full sturdy, half sturdy, 2 pieces sturdy, etc. 3 pieces well fitted also tested (in heavy armor tho).

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Sounds like you haven't theory crafted a build for this patch coupled with your unwillingness to admit that the problem is a play style issue not a patch issue sounds like it’s at the core of it all. Dying with full or close to full resources means you could have done something but that’s on you as a player.

i die in the break free animation, this means in a single second from bursts of two people. And even dodge rolling doesn't help, i die during the roll. I already specified these, but oh well another one.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=249627

This is what I run on my stamdk.
I have amazing healing, I am wearing ancient dragonguard so I am tanky when I need it. 2k health recovery on the back bar and strong offence too.

If you wanted block based mitigation instead of the 4 well fitted use 4 sturdy and endurance s&b. You can even take off one endurance jewelry and wear malacath or wild Hunt. You would loose the health bonus on the front bar though. If you want more constant damage, you could drop balorgh and agility for nma or fury.

I hope it helps! It works for me.

finehair · July 2020

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

So your stalemate build from last patch can’t stalemate anymore? What’s the issue. Just sounds like it’s time to go back to the drawing board and do some theory crafting.

"oh boy another patch, can't wait to deconstruct my good golded gear from last patch because now it's utter poop and find a new set of gear to improve to gold quality until the next patch."

tbh i like theory crafting and trying different sets, but when i find "the" set i get used to playstyle for that combination. And every other month something gets nerfed or buffed and my old gear can't compete with others so even if i'm good at using the advantages of that gear, it's just not enough to stay alive.
Also i'm sick of changing gears and golding them every other week just to not get absolutely wrecked in pvp.

Also the damage is too high now, stamnb can literally one shot you in noncp, i've got 5k over the resist cap fully buffed but all i hear that sound of incap and i'm laying dead on the ground in a blink.
ofc in death cap it says i got hit by assassin's will and 3 surprise attacks somehow.
probably lag.

TequilaFire · July 2020

All those that called for healing and mitigation nerfs to combat ball groups/zergs should of stopped to realize those same nerfs would affect solo as well.

Yuke · July 2020

Malacath, Malubeth, Clever Alchemist S/B bar, NMA 2H bar - HP/Stam/Resist Pots. You are welcome.

ZOS_Lunar · July 2020

Greetings everyone,
As this thread has run its course and is no longer constructive, we are now going to close it. We always encourage sharing opinions, but we ask that they are respectfully stated when doing so. Thank you for your understanding, and please keep the Community Rules in mind when posting on the forums.