nerfs are needed again, yes in pvp

Galwylin

Sergykid wrote: »

7k snipes

7?!? Mine have been being 11+k. My honest opinion is just let it all go as far as it wants so the playerbase as a whole can decide what gear/skills are necessary and leave it at that. Finally it won't be what you have (or may have paid money for) and everyone will be on even footing leaving the one thing you can't farm for... skill. Its the only way to have a somewhat even playing field then balance the classes to that and then LEAVE IT ALONE.

SidraWillowsky

Sergykid wrote: »

The damage is so high that even on a tank character you can't survive.

GOOD. People should not be able to create builds that can survive literally everything.

SidraWillowsky

karekiz wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

It is possible that the Draugrkin proc bypasses Battle Spirit and that is a bug that could be fixed (if it is true) without impacting PvE at all. But in terms of nerfing the core functionality of the set simply because it killed you, I give you a resounding "NOPE!"

People use Draughkin in PvE?

It's on par with other BiS sets on my magwarden. People don't seem to use it because it's not the meta, but it's a really great set and I'd be sad to see it nerfed in PvE for the sake of PvP.

Jeremy

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

The damage is so high that even on a tank character you can't survive.

GOOD. People should not be able to create builds that can survive literally everything.

There is a big difference in being able to "survive literally everything" and then be melted in the span of a second or two - which is what's going to happen to any character right now (defensive or not) who gets caught up in the stun/splat treatment.

Sergykid

Jeremy wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

damage is out of control, one shotting is worse than ever. It was a good direction with the nerfs this patch brought when tanks were out of control, but now damage is absurd. 5k dizzys 7k snipes and that on a capped (and a bit over) resistances tank that applies maim on the enemies. The newly added sets over the last period together with the new p2w item Malacath's Band of Brutality have made surviving quite difficult if not impossible.

you have added base crit resist and the Critical Riposte set (which is very weak btw, tested it) and then added that mythic item which takes out crits from one's damage output and can be paired together with Unchained Aggressor for impossible bursts (Essence Thief is also a busted set but currently is quite underestimated).
And i won't talk about the Draugrkin's Grip that is so strong in pvp that even stamina users use it for Bloodthirst spam with multiple dots on the target, i got melted while blocking on my full tank, from poisons bleeds and status effects which all and each one proc from the set without any limitations or cooldown between ticks.

there are more examples but i think the idea is clear. I obviously talk about no cp pvp. In cp pvp there's full of clowns both for damage and tanking, so no arguments here.

Yeah it can be pretty ridiculous. Heavy Armor, health, resistances, heals (especially heals)... even block is useless now as a form of defense Sergykid. None of that will stop a well played offensive from simply melting you with what is essentially the same stun/splat tactics - which is pretty much what PvP is on this game... stun/splat.

I recommend using Mist Form as a way to defend yourself now. It's the only thing I've found that works good enough to bother with. Otherwise I would have quit this game's PvP already. Also: get ready for some incoming: because all of the offensive-oriented characters - who for obvious reasons are going to like these changes - are going to come after you. lol

yes, i tried many tanking builds. Health recovery build, high resistances, % defenses, mix of any of those, etc. Nothing is working, a single player deals so much damage it's impossible to survive in fair combat. I am forced to either run away out of line of sight or to cheese it like Meridia's Blessed Armor (which doesn't help at all against two players).

Sergykid

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Looks like the nerflings are at it again.

Honestly, these nerflings will never be satisfied until, as DJ Khaled says, "All [they] do is win, win, win no matter what."

After that: HANDS OFF MY DRAUGRKIN.

Before it was ever used in PvP it was used in PvE as a building block for off-meta magDPS builds. Given it is a strictly single-target set and that it has, at best, a 2/3 uptime, this sounds like an L2P issue more than a balance problem.

As others have said, try stunning the Draugrkin user to set up your own combo or use Roll-Dodge or mobility to disengage when the proc is on you. Or simply run over to your friend and use numbers against them since the Draugrkin user effectively does not have a 5-piece set when attacking your ally. Furthermore, what are you doing just sitting there eating all this damage? That's a violation of like basic PvP common sense, especially in Non-CP.

It is possible that the Draugrkin proc bypasses Battle Spirit and that is a bug that could be fixed (if it is true) without impacting PvE at all. But in terms of nerfing the core functionality of the set simply because it killed you, I give you a resounding "NOPE!"

i already answered about your useless comment of "nerflings".
and about Draugrkin, it doesn't work like that. The opponent is going to proc the set after he breaks free so it's not stunned. Also, my screen doesn't all brighten up in a color when i'm affected by it, i have to set up an addon just to alert me in time of this effect? And another thing, i have on me 3-4 dots which all hit like crazy when set procs even if the enemy is stunned. One single bloodthirst is enough to finish the job.

Sergykid

Jeremy wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

The damage is so high that even on a tank character you can't survive.

GOOD. People should not be able to create builds that can survive literally everything.

There is a big difference in being able to "survive literally everything" and then be melted in the span of a second or two - which is what's going to happen to any character right now (defensive or not) who gets caught up in the stun/splat treatment.

exactly, what's the point of playing tanky if i die in the break free animation. I don't play tank to facetank 8 people in battlegrounds, but not being able to survive the burst of two people while wearing only defense and debuffing the enemies, that's bad

xXMeowMeowXx

Banana wrote: »

Death is part of life.

I agree with @Banana

TequilaFire wrote: »

LOL, already nerfed health and the best monster sets.
Of course you have to pay more attention to defensive mechanics now.

Yeapers ^

Hapexamendios wrote: »

No more nerfs.

This^

[Snip]

Good PvPers will still be good.

Players that are not good will either put in the time learning and playing or not.

It’s a game have fun

[Edited for rude content]

Vevvev

karekiz wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

It is possible that the Draugrkin proc bypasses Battle Spirit and that is a bug that could be fixed (if it is true) without impacting PvE at all. But in terms of nerfing the core functionality of the set simply because it killed you, I give you a resounding "NOPE!"

People use Draughkin in PvE?

When used with a ton of DoTs the set is actually pretty good. I personally ended up sticking with Spell Strategist for the 100% up time and the fact its easier to switch targets.

Karmanorway

I have malacaths band and i dont think its p2w at all, remember you cant crit If u use it, that mean less damage and less healing, atleast on stamsorc.

Venomous smite aint that bad either, it only becomes a problem for me If its paired with azureblight.

All in all im pretty pleased with the new sets, makes stamsorc more up to par with the other classes...

Mrtoobyy

Jeremy wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

damage is out of control, one shotting is worse than ever. It was a good direction with the nerfs this patch brought when tanks were out of control, but now damage is absurd. 5k dizzys 7k snipes and that on a capped (and a bit over) resistances tank that applies maim on the enemies. The newly added sets over the last period together with the new p2w item Malacath's Band of Brutality have made surviving quite difficult if not impossible.

you have added base crit resist and the Critical Riposte set (which is very weak btw, tested it) and then added that mythic item which takes out crits from one's damage output and can be paired together with Unchained Aggressor for impossible bursts (Essence Thief is also a busted set but currently is quite underestimated).
And i won't talk about the Draugrkin's Grip that is so strong in pvp that even stamina users use it for Bloodthirst spam with multiple dots on the target, i got melted while blocking on my full tank, from poisons bleeds and status effects which all and each one proc from the set without any limitations or cooldown between ticks.

there are more examples but i think the idea is clear. I obviously talk about no cp pvp. In cp pvp there's full of clowns both for damage and tanking, so no arguments here.

Yeah it can be pretty ridiculous. Heavy Armor, health, resistances, heals (especially heals)... even block is useless now as a form of defense Sergykid. None of that will stop a well played offensive from simply melting you with what is essentially the same stun/splat tactics - which is pretty much what PvP is on this game... stun/splat.

I recommend using Mist Form as a way to defend yourself now. It's the only thing I've found that works good enough to bother with. Otherwise I would have quit this game's PvP already. Also: get ready for some incoming: because all of the offensive-oriented characters - who for obvious reasons are going to like these changes - are going to come after you. lol

I totally agree. The CC in this game is really not my taste, maybe it'st just because I am not good enough but I think that all the different CC statuses is too much and the cooldowns are too short.
I would love to try out pvp in this game for a few hours without any CC just to compare. But hey then I may be whining about "bring back the cc"... Atleast then I would

tinythinker

Arguing over nerfs got you down? Just sing along to ESO nerf song (to the tune of Devos' Whip It!):

Lava whip
Dark Cloak for the slip
Proccing a Frag
This fight's in the bag
When a class skill comes along
[You must nerf it...]
And it seems a little strong
[You must nerf it...]
There must be something wrong
[You must nerf it...]

Now nerf it
Make it safe
Safe for pugs
Troll bait
So awkward
Hit my head
Could not deflect it
It's way too late
To nerf it
Nerf it good

When my character goes down
[You must nerf it...]
More QQ posts will be found
[Unless you nerf it]
They won't go away
[Until they nerf it]

I say nerf it
Nerf it good
I say nerf it
Nerf it good

Lava whip
Dark Cloak for the slip
Proccing a Frag
This fight's in the bag
When a class skill comes along
[You must nerf it...]
And it seems a little strong
[You must nerf it...]
There must be something wrong
[You must nerf it...]

Now nerf it
Make it safe
Safe for pugs
Troll bait
So awkward
Hit my head
Could not deflect it
It's way too late
To nerf it
Make it safe
Safe for pugs
Troll bait
So awkward
Hit my head
Could not deflect it
It's way too late
To nerf it
Nerf it good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_QLzthSkfM

Crack that whip
Give the past a slip
Step on a crack
Break your momma's back

When a problem comes along
You must whip it
Before the cream sets out too long
You must whip it
When something's goin' wrong
You must whip it

Now whip it
Into shape
Shape it up
Get straight
Go forward
Move ahead
Try to detect it
It's not too late
To whip it
Whip it good

When a good time turns around
You must whip it
You will never live it down
Unless you whip it
No one gets away
Until they whip it
I say whip it
Whip it good
I say whip it
Whip it good

Crack that whip
Give the past a slip
Step on a crack
Break your momma's back

When a problem comes along
You must whip it
Before the cream sets out too long
You must whip it
When something's goin' wrong
You must whip it

Now whip it
Into shape
Shape it up
Get straight
Go forward
Move ahead
Try to detect it
It's not too late
To whip it
Get straight
Go forward
Move ahead
Try to detect it
It's not too late
To whip it
Whip it good

Fur_like_snow

Sounds like more of a play style issue than a patch issue. PvP “tanks” have gone outta style time for a DPS meta. Adapt or splat it’s your choice.

Dr_Ganknstein

Sergykid wrote: »

And i won't talk about the Draugrkin's Grip that is so strong in pvp that even stamina users use it for Bloodthirst spam with multiple dots on the target, i got melted while blocking on my full tank, from poisons bleeds and status effects which all and each one proc from the set without any limitations or cooldown between ticks.

Wait so did you go full potato 🥔 and hold block while someone Bloodthirsted you to death? Never go full potato 🥔

Sorbin

CP and Non-CP need to be balanced separately. Applying a one-size-fits-all solution to both and calling it a day is fundamentally flawed when the gameplay is so significantly different between the two. There's plenty of ways to be tanky in CP and still deal damage right now, but they should at least revert the heal nerf in non-CP.

Dracane

We have suffered an unkillable meta for a good few years now. I am happy Greymoor has changed this a bit.
It is the first positive patch for me personally since a long time. This patch was a step in the right direction and people just have to accept that death is a part of pvp and it's more frustrating when nobody dies than when everybody dies.

Pvp is about killing, not living through everything. I like this patch for the most part and I would like if Zenimax does not move from it all too much. Pvp is more balanced right now than it has been in years.

Like many others here, I think Venomous Smite must be looked at as well as Malacath's affecting proc sets. I also think armor traits need a big overhaul.

Kadoin

Dracane wrote: »

We have suffered an unkillable meta for a good few years now. I am happy Greymoor has changed this a bit.
It is the first positive patch for me personally since a long time. This patch was a step in the right direction and people just have to accept that death is a part of pvp and it's more frustrating when nobody dies than when everybody dies.

Pvp is about killing, not living through everything. I like this patch for the most part and I would like if Zenimax does not move from it all too much. Pvp is more balanced right now than it has been in years.

Like many others here, I think Venomous Smite must be looked at as well as Malacath's affecting proc sets. I also think armor traits need a big overhaul.

The thing is, you can still be unkillable except this time with damage. ZOS and the playerbase really have little idea about just what's possible yet.

It's a nice show for me...

Radiance

IDK about nerfs but I'm thinking they need a more astute Hacker tracking system. I have no qualms about meta chasers that simply outmatch me but things like TOP DEEPS who are also somehow god tier Tanks can spot you from a mile away while in stealth and make a B-line directly for you without any tags or revealing pots or skills or Vamp-Ulti that lets you see enemies blood. I'm not going to lodge any accusations but this 💩 is sus AF to me.

That's alls i'm sayin'

Dracane

Kadoin wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

We have suffered an unkillable meta for a good few years now. I am happy Greymoor has changed this a bit.
It is the first positive patch for me personally since a long time. This patch was a step in the right direction and people just have to accept that death is a part of pvp and it's more frustrating when nobody dies than when everybody dies.

Pvp is about killing, not living through everything. I like this patch for the most part and I would like if Zenimax does not move from it all too much. Pvp is more balanced right now than it has been in years.

Like many others here, I think Venomous Smite must be looked at as well as Malacath's affecting proc sets. I also think armor traits need a big overhaul.

The thing is, you can still be unkillable except this time with damage. ZOS and the playerbase really have little idea about just what's possible yet.

It's a nice show for me...

I have yet to encounter such things.
Defense is still crazy and I have no doubts that there are stamina builds pulling this off. For now, I have not seen anything otherworldy.

ImmortalCX

Qbiken wrote: »

Of all the sets you mentioned I'll only agree on malacath and draugrkin. With draugrkin I wouls rework it to only work on direct damage abilities and/or rework it so it doesn't boost damage of other proc sets/monster sets.

Unchained Aggressor has way to short of a duration to even be remotely useful. The set could've been good if ZOS didn't nerf it during the PTS were it was added. If anything unchained aggressor could use a buff. It's a set that for once benefit the player who is outnumbered and not the other way around. In majority of fights when you get stunned while outnumbered you're dead.

Essence thief is a strong set but has very obvious drawbacks. Anyone who used the set will understand why. It's a set that shines in duels/1v1 but in open world (especially when fight on uneven terrain or walls/cliffs) it loses a lot of value since you won't be able to pick up the rune as often.

A set ZOS should take a look at however is Hunters Venom. This set is old sload but with an AoE component (yes I know it's not oblivion damage but you easily reach 1k+ ticks with this set on players). This set should be rework to be a ground based AoE that spawns underneath target and stays there. It should by no means stay a person bound AoE DoT as it currently is.

I think the fun of the game is being able to identify new killer combinations of gear and adapt to the new patch.

If "meta" never changed, and when it did change, it was easily recognizable, then it wouldn't be much theorycrafting, would it?

TequilaFire

All I know is this bugged excavation mini game pisses me off way more than getting ganked!

Khatou

there's never been a meta in this game that's all made for it. It's *** cheated over-aged *** wizard...

ShadowProc

Uryel wrote: »

The only nerf that would make sense would be to remove PvP entirely from the game. But assuming this will never happen, then maybe, just maybe, balance skills differently for PvE and PvP, like so many games do.

That way, PvE players wouldn't have to bear with the constant whining and nerfing cycle that was the cause of much stupid changes, like removing stealth from the Bosmers, making Argonians non-resistant to poison, Altmer regenerating stamina and so on.

Asking for balance changes is whining by pvpers but pvers whining about nerfs to sets that lower dps from 80k to 72k is okay. Okay bud. Lmao

Abyssmol

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Here we go. Malacaths if fine and is great that it is adverse to very popular crit stacking damage builds. I have been finding that player skill even with Malacaths is still a big factor.

Magicka characters with malacth do not even get close to the damage that stamina characters with 5k to 6K damage are putting out. If you are complaining so much about the malacath ring then you should also complain on how stamina stack so much wp compare to magicka. And please don't say that magicka has 4k penetration. Penetration does not help with healing, and you take more damage on light armor. If you think that the ring is OP, then use it. Or better yet learn to play!

Additional comment to the OP, not to you Wolf

Palidon

Wow just what the forums need. Another nerf thread complaining about PvP. Lost count on how many of these there are.

Sergykid

many of u just repeat yourselves but i already answered to these useless answers.

and to the "tank meta", again i already answered and i have to repeat myself because you people just come in to bash without looking what was talked already.
I don't want to facetank everyone in BG without ever dying, i do believe this is wrong as i said many times before. But not being able to survive a player or two is bad. Now there's like the wild west playstyle, people encounter change fires and one dies, there's not even a point for tanky playstyle, there's just one shotting everywhere

Nemesis7884

i said when malacaths came out that you should prolly reduce it to +15% that seems more realistic

Fur_like_snow

How is it unreasonable for 1-2 players wearing high DPS gear in NO CP to kill another player? That just sounds like a play style issue and not a patch issue.

It’s like the guy who shows up to a Wayrest duel with a 35k healthplar build expecting to be taken seriously when the best he can do is just stalemate the fight. I say what’s the point of builds like that? I’m glad Zeni listened and gave us the tools like malacath I wanna see more 1 or 2 piece gear sets designed for high damage in PvP. Performance willing this is one of the best patches in years.

Tolino

@Sergykid

They didn't buff the dmg! ZOS reduced the healing.
I wonder how the "dmg-player" survive long enough! I mean it is even impossible with a 35k Resis+minor Maim Tank!!! According to you...

Firstmep

Karmanorway wrote: »

I have malacaths band and i dont think its p2w at all, remember you cant crit If u use it, that mean less damage and less healing, atleast on stamsorc.

Venomous smite aint that bad either, it only becomes a problem for me If its paired with azureblight.

All in all im pretty pleased with the new sets, makes stamsorc more up to par with the other classes...

I use azureblight without venomous actually, it's too easy for Templars get rid of the effect and 1 blight stack a second isn't that big of a loss.
I use azure with eternal vigor, which gives stamsorc basically infinite sustain, and I can just sit inside large groups of enemies, which actually increases my damage Beacuse of more seed procs from hurricane and deadly cloak.
Getting away from zergs is also.much easier when you have 2k + regen across the board xD