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Leads in IC; if you wanted us to hate PvP even more... this was it
-
Inaya✭✭✭✭✭
✭Integral1900 wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »My daugther finds PvE dead boring,
but she loves ganking PvE players
looking for leads in PvP city.
Thank you ZOS for more easy prey!
And people wonder why it’s dam near impossible to get PVE players into PVP for anything other than short unpleasant bursts
Gankers don't care about that, they look at your health pool. Both pvers and pvpers are targets, but pvpers are less likely to die to gankers because they got better at the game, simple as that.
Why don't you guys try to do the same? Imagine if i asked for a dungeon or trial to get nerfed just because i don't want to put enough effort into it or learn the mechanics... Silly, isn't it?
The random ganker who runs by and stops to kill me while I'm fishing I have no use for and actually wonder what is wrong with someone who goes out of their way to harrass someone.
Ok, define "ganker", because most people regardless their class kill on sight, doesn't matter if you are fishing, repairing a wall, buying sieges or going from Sej to BRK. That's not harassment, that's pvp.
That's acutally not true at all. More often than not if I'm fishing or completing PVE objetives MOST of the PVP'ers just pass right by, sometimes I see them slow down a bit (like they are checking me out) and then speed back up to get where they were going. It's happened while fishing, in delves, farming, questing, every aspect of PVE play. Those are the PVP'ers I enjoy playing with during PVP events and even sometimes just cuz.
If some people don't want to attack you then fine, but the ones who do also got the right to do it, it's a pvp area after all. You want everyone to follow your made up rules, and that's not how it works.
I, for instance, hate it when i'm fighting outnumbered in front of an enemy keep and 3 or 4 "brave players" decide to drop their cold fire ballista on me, but you won't see me telling them how they should play.A ganker is someone who doesn't care to do something constructive or useful with his/her game time, so they are often sighted grouping up and attacking from behind while they are doing something, fighting something else or recover from a fight. They will camp you and re-kill you, they will /say stupid things and actually aren't really wanted by GOOD PVP'ers either.
A ganker is someone who sacrifices their survivability for damage, and does that to get AP, which is quite useful, so i wouldn't say they are wasting their time. Personally i don't enjoy playing as a ganker, but again, i'm not gonna tell people how they should have fun. Also most of them are easy to kill anyway, you just need to know how to deal with them.
Btw, there's no such thing as "camping someone" in this game. If you get ganked and decide to respawn in the same keep and leave through the same door then it's on you
And herein lies the problem! You don't even want to hear or consider the other side of the debate.
5 -
Vietfox✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Integral1900 wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »My daugther finds PvE dead boring,
but she loves ganking PvE players
looking for leads in PvP city.
Thank you ZOS for more easy prey!
And people wonder why it’s dam near impossible to get PVE players into PVP for anything other than short unpleasant bursts
Gankers don't care about that, they look at your health pool. Both pvers and pvpers are targets, but pvpers are less likely to die to gankers because they got better at the game, simple as that.
Why don't you guys try to do the same? Imagine if i asked for a dungeon or trial to get nerfed just because i don't want to put enough effort into it or learn the mechanics... Silly, isn't it?
The random ganker who runs by and stops to kill me while I'm fishing I have no use for and actually wonder what is wrong with someone who goes out of their way to harrass someone.
Ok, define "ganker", because most people regardless their class kill on sight, doesn't matter if you are fishing, repairing a wall, buying sieges or going from Sej to BRK. That's not harassment, that's pvp.
How is fishing pvp? That to me seems very different then the other three.
Fishing isn't pvp, but you are doing it in a pvp area, so accept the risk. Just like when you are trying to open a chest and an npc spots you and attacks you, you gotta fight back.
It’s not quite the same is it though, some person minding their own business, not involved in a siege or the such. And that’s the issue at hand, players who want to be left alone, and another player basically dragging them into an activity they don’t want.
That doesn't matter, it's still a pvp area and anyone got the right to kill another one no matter what they are doing. If you decide to go to Cyro/IC for whatever reasons (achievement, skyshards, etc...) be ready for it or accept the consequences.Integral1900 wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »My daugther finds PvE dead boring,
but she loves ganking PvE players
looking for leads in PvP city.
Thank you ZOS for more easy prey!
And people wonder why it’s dam near impossible to get PVE players into PVP for anything other than short unpleasant bursts
Gankers don't care about that, they look at your health pool. Both pvers and pvpers are targets, but pvpers are less likely to die to gankers because they got better at the game, simple as that.
Why don't you guys try to do the same? Imagine if i asked for a dungeon or trial to get nerfed just because i don't want to put enough effort into it or learn the mechanics... Silly, isn't it?
The random ganker who runs by and stops to kill me while I'm fishing I have no use for and actually wonder what is wrong with someone who goes out of their way to harrass someone.
Ok, define "ganker", because most people regardless their class kill on sight, doesn't matter if you are fishing, repairing a wall, buying sieges or going from Sej to BRK. That's not harassment, that's pvp.
How is fishing pvp? That to me seems very different then the other three.
Fishing isn't pvp, but you are doing it in a pvp area, so accept the risk. Just like when you are trying to open a chest and an npc spots you and attacks you, you gotta fight back.
Your chest issue is also not equivalent as normal npc mobs can’t burn a player down that quickly, and engaging the mob only risks losing the chest to another player. Also even if the player dies, soul shards exist.
Dying to another player means a possible(probable) long inconvenience, particularly if the dead player was in a delve.
Yeah, killing or fighting back a player takes way more skill than an npc, i give you that. The true reason why many people don't like pvp.4 -
Vietfox✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Integral1900 wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »My daugther finds PvE dead boring,
but she loves ganking PvE players
looking for leads in PvP city.
Thank you ZOS for more easy prey!
And people wonder why it’s dam near impossible to get PVE players into PVP for anything other than short unpleasant bursts
Gankers don't care about that, they look at your health pool. Both pvers and pvpers are targets, but pvpers are less likely to die to gankers because they got better at the game, simple as that.
Why don't you guys try to do the same? Imagine if i asked for a dungeon or trial to get nerfed just because i don't want to put enough effort into it or learn the mechanics... Silly, isn't it?
The random ganker who runs by and stops to kill me while I'm fishing I have no use for and actually wonder what is wrong with someone who goes out of their way to harrass someone.
Ok, define "ganker", because most people regardless their class kill on sight, doesn't matter if you are fishing, repairing a wall, buying sieges or going from Sej to BRK. That's not harassment, that's pvp.
That's acutally not true at all. More often than not if I'm fishing or completing PVE objetives MOST of the PVP'ers just pass right by, sometimes I see them slow down a bit (like they are checking me out) and then speed back up to get where they were going. It's happened while fishing, in delves, farming, questing, every aspect of PVE play. Those are the PVP'ers I enjoy playing with during PVP events and even sometimes just cuz.
If some people don't want to attack you then fine, but the ones who do also got the right to do it, it's a pvp area after all. You want everyone to follow your made up rules, and that's not how it works.
I, for instance, hate it when i'm fighting outnumbered in front of an enemy keep and 3 or 4 "brave players" decide to drop their cold fire ballista on me, but you won't see me telling them how they should play.A ganker is someone who doesn't care to do something constructive or useful with his/her game time, so they are often sighted grouping up and attacking from behind while they are doing something, fighting something else or recover from a fight. They will camp you and re-kill you, they will /say stupid things and actually aren't really wanted by GOOD PVP'ers either.
A ganker is someone who sacrifices their survivability for damage, and does that to get AP, which is quite useful, so i wouldn't say they are wasting their time. Personally i don't enjoy playing as a ganker, but again, i'm not gonna tell people how they should have fun. Also most of them are easy to kill anyway, you just need to know how to deal with them.
Btw, there's no such thing as "camping someone" in this game. If you get ganked and decide to respawn in the same keep and leave through the same door then it's on you
And herein lies the problem! You don't even want to hear or consider the other side of the debate.
I hear it, but it doesn't make any sense. Again, you want people to play according to your own made up rules, and that's not how it works.6 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭rotaugen454 wrote: »I went to get the lead in IC. The room was full of EP. I switched to n EP character. Problem solved.rotaugen454 wrote: »I went to get the lead in IC. The room was full of EP. I switched to n EP character. Problem solved.
Same, except I didn't change. They waved, I waved, we all left with the lead.3 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Agenericname wrote: »rotaugen454 wrote: »I went to get the lead in IC. The room was full of EP. I switched to n EP character. Problem solved.rotaugen454 wrote: »I went to get the lead in IC. The room was full of EP. I switched to n EP character. Problem solved.
Same, except I didn't change. They waved, I waved, we all left with the lead.
I forgot to wave to the folks I was running around with, but we did try to eat each other with Blood Mist while waiting for a boss to respawn so I think that could count!0 -
Inaya✭✭✭✭✭
✭Agenericname wrote: »rotaugen454 wrote: »I went to get the lead in IC. The room was full of EP. I switched to n EP character. Problem solved.rotaugen454 wrote: »I went to get the lead in IC. The room was full of EP. I switched to n EP character. Problem solved.
Same, except I didn't change. They waved, I waved, we all left with the lead.
And those are the true PVP'ers!1 -
Kiyakotari✭✭✭✭✭In my mind, the biggest difference is that when a PvP player goes into a PvE activity looking for something that they need (dungeon, trial, world boss farming, etc) the other (PvE) players that they encounter are almost certainly going to be helpful to them, and assist them in reaching their goal (defeating the final dungeon boss for the monster set, clearing the various dungeon bosses for gear drops - and possibly offering their own drops up if they don't need them - to help the PvP player complete a set, killing world bosses or public dungeon bosses for gear, and so on). Yes, there are jerks everywhere, and occasionally there are PvE players who will boot someone from group if they aren't "pulling their weight," but there are also a lot (in my experience, by far a majority) of PvE players who will happily keep someone in their group who clearly doesn't yet know mechanics, and will instead take the time before boss fights to offer up tips or a brief explanation of the mechanics, or will invite the new-to-the-dungeon player into Discord voice so they can explain mechanics that way.
This environment provides a stark contrast when held up against the experience of a PvE player entering a PvP activity for something that they need (whether it is unlocking skill points through PvP ranks, grabbing the skyshards in PvP areas, or completing certain quests or dailies in PvP areas to participate in an event or receive a particular achievement reward) and encountering one or more PvP players. The nature of PvP means that players from an enemy faction will of course attack (and almost certainly kill - most PvE players are not geared for or experienced in PvP combat) the PvE player when they run into the PvE player. Unless they're nice and honor the "block and crouch" truce gesture. And honestly, I'm not generally bothered when someone does that to me. They're PvPing, after all, and until they attack they often have no way to know that I'm PvE. However, when someone does gank a PvE player, and brings them down very quickly, if they're very experienced or intelligent at all, they'll know the person they just "fought" was not set up for PvP. If they stay, and camp the location, waiting to kill the PvE player when they return to complete whatever task they had been set on by their NPC overlord, that is when they cross the line from "just a PvPer doing PvP things" into "a g*ds-be-d***ed lazy a**h*l*" for me. Likewise, when a PvPer or group of PvPers camps a quest giver during a PvP event (upcoming Midyear Mayhem, I'm looking at you) and kills every enemy player that approaches it, keeping them from picking up and/or turning in their daily quests, and thus from properly participating in the event. That's not PvPing, that's griefing, in my opinion. And it's behaviors like that which make so many PvE players so sour about anything that pushes them into PvP zones.10 -
lucky_Sage✭✭✭✭✭Integral1900 wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »My daugther finds PvE dead boring,
but she loves ganking PvE players
looking for leads in PvP city.
Thank you ZOS for more easy prey!
And people wonder why it’s dam near impossible to get PVE players into PVP for anything other than short unpleasant bursts
Gankers don't care about that, they look at your health pool. Both pvers and pvpers are targets, but pvpers are less likely to die to gankers because they got better at the game, simple as that.
Why don't you guys try to do the same? Imagine if i asked for a dungeon or trial to get nerfed just because i don't want to put enough effort into it or learn the mechanics... Silly, isn't it?
The random ganker who runs by and stops to kill me while I'm fishing I have no use for and actually wonder what is wrong with someone who goes out of their way to harrass someone.
Ok, define "ganker", because most people regardless their class kill on sight, doesn't matter if you are fishing, repairing a wall, buying sieges or going from Sej to BRK. That's not harassment, that's pvp.
That's acutally not true at all. More often than not if I'm fishing or completing PVE objetives MOST of the PVP'ers just pass right by, sometimes I see them slow down a bit (like they are checking me out) and then speed back up to get where they were going. It's happened while fishing, in delves, farming, questing, every aspect of PVE play. Those are the PVP'ers I enjoy playing with during PVP events and even sometimes just cuz.
A ganker is someone who doesn't care to do something constructive or useful with his/her game time, so they are often sighted grouping up and attacking from behind while they are doing something, fighting something else or recover from a fight. They will camp you and re-kill you, they will /say stupid things and actually aren't really wanted by GOOD PVP'ers either.
Everyone who goes to IC. Is pvp thirsty because no one is in there.
Just do guild runs in IC to farm leads will tale one night to get them your PVE Zerg will ruin there pvpDC PC NA
Magdk - main
Stamcro - alt
AD PS4 NA -retired (PC runs way better to play on console)
magdk
magblade
stamplar
magden
magsorc0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kiyakotari wrote: »In my mind, the biggest difference is that when a PvP player goes into a PvE activity looking for something that they need (dungeon, trial, world boss farming, etc) the other (PvE) players that they encounter are almost certainly going to be helpful to them, and assist them in reaching their goal (defeating the final dungeon boss for the monster set, clearing the various dungeon bosses for gear drops - and possibly offering their own drops up if they don't need them - to help the PvP player complete a set, killing world bosses or public dungeon bosses for gear, and so on). Yes, there are jerks everywhere, and occasionally there are PvE players who will boot someone from group if they aren't "pulling their weight," but there are also a lot (in my experience, by far a majority) of PvE players who will happily keep someone in their group who clearly doesn't yet know mechanics, and will instead take the time before boss fights to offer up tips or a brief explanation of the mechanics, or will invite the new-to-the-dungeon player into Discord voice so they can explain mechanics that way.
This environment provides a stark contrast when held up against the experience of a PvE player entering a PvP activity for something that they need (whether it is unlocking skill points through PvP ranks, grabbing the skyshards in PvP areas, or completing certain quests or dailies in PvP areas to participate in an event or receive a particular achievement reward) and encountering one or more PvP players. The nature of PvP means that players from an enemy faction will of course attack (and almost certainly kill - most PvE players are not geared for or experienced in PvP combat) the PvE player when they run into the PvE player. Unless they're nice and honor the "block and crouch" truce gesture. And honestly, I'm not generally bothered when someone does that to me. They're PvPing, after all, and until they attack they often have no way to know that I'm PvE. However, when someone does gank a PvE player, and brings them down very quickly, if they're very experienced or intelligent at all, they'll know the person they just "fought" was not set up for PvP. If they stay, and camp the location, waiting to kill the PvE player when they return to complete whatever task they had been set on by their NPC overlord, that is when they cross the line from "just a PvPer doing PvP things" into "a g*ds-be-d***ed lazy a**h*l*" for me. Likewise, when a PvPer or group of PvPers camps a quest giver during a PvP event (upcoming Midyear Mayhem, I'm looking at you) and kills every enemy player that approaches it, keeping them from picking up and/or turning in their daily quests, and thus from properly participating in the event. That's not PvPing, that's griefing, in my opinion. And it's behaviors like that which make so many PvE players so sour about anything that pushes them into PvP zones.
I get that camping quest givers is frustrating but...
They aren't preventing you from properly participating. There's tons of ways to get rewards from the event beyond that particular quest giver (which ZOS fully intended those quests to be done with the threat of PVP.) They might be preventing you from participating in your preferred way, but you can still participate. Just like those AD defenders at Alessia preventing me from finishing my "Capture Castle Alessia" quest aren't preventing me from participating in the event properly. I've got options. So do you. Maybe not ones we want to take, but we've got options.
I understand the frustration, but can we please not make claims that are untrue?3 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Kiyakotari wrote: »In my mind, the biggest difference is that when a PvP player goes into a PvE activity looking for something that they need (dungeon, trial, world boss farming, etc) the other (PvE) players that they encounter are almost certainly going to be helpful to them, and assist them in reaching their goal (defeating the final dungeon boss for the monster set, clearing the various dungeon bosses for gear drops - and possibly offering their own drops up if they don't need them - to help the PvP player complete a set, killing world bosses or public dungeon bosses for gear, and so on). Yes, there are jerks everywhere, and occasionally there are PvE players who will boot someone from group if they aren't "pulling their weight," but there are also a lot (in my experience, by far a majority) of PvE players who will happily keep someone in their group who clearly doesn't yet know mechanics, and will instead take the time before boss fights to offer up tips or a brief explanation of the mechanics, or will invite the new-to-the-dungeon player into Discord voice so they can explain mechanics that way.
This environment provides a stark contrast when held up against the experience of a PvE player entering a PvP activity for something that they need (whether it is unlocking skill points through PvP ranks, grabbing the skyshards in PvP areas, or completing certain quests or dailies in PvP areas to participate in an event or receive a particular achievement reward) and encountering one or more PvP players. The nature of PvP means that players from an enemy faction will of course attack (and almost certainly kill - most PvE players are not geared for or experienced in PvP combat) the PvE player when they run into the PvE player. Unless they're nice and honor the "block and crouch" truce gesture. And honestly, I'm not generally bothered when someone does that to me. They're PvPing, after all, and until they attack they often have no way to know that I'm PvE. However, when someone does gank a PvE player, and brings them down very quickly, if they're very experienced or intelligent at all, they'll know the person they just "fought" was not set up for PvP. If they stay, and camp the location, waiting to kill the PvE player when they return to complete whatever task they had been set on by their NPC overlord, that is when they cross the line from "just a PvPer doing PvP things" into "a g*ds-be-d***ed lazy a**h*l*" for me. Likewise, when a PvPer or group of PvPers camps a quest giver during a PvP event (upcoming Midyear Mayhem, I'm looking at you) and kills every enemy player that approaches it, keeping them from picking up and/or turning in their daily quests, and thus from properly participating in the event. That's not PvPing, that's griefing, in my opinion. And it's behaviors like that which make so many PvE players so sour about anything that pushes them into PvP zones.
The 2 environments are very different and its extremely difficult to measure what you're attempting to measure. I play both PvE and PvP. The bigger difference between the 2 is that in most cases in PvE your groups are instanced. Not much is really overland or non-instanced PvE so you'll only ever be exposed to so many people at one time. That alone makes the comparison much harder.
Its also a dichotomy that mostly exists here in the forums. A lot of people do both. The largest percentage of player is most likely "do not PvP at all" but I'd wager that the percentage that partake in both is rather high. So when someone meets me in vet Scale Caller Peak looking for a Zaan's and I help them, more than likely they'll chalk it up to a nice PvEer simply because that's where they met me, but it's not really what happened because I do both. It's the same in PvP. Many of my friends do both.
So if I meet you in PvP and you're fishing and I left you alone or killed you, was it really a PvPer?
3 -
linoge63✭✭✭IC would for me at least be far more enjoyable if PVP did not include my own faction members.
Instead of being seen as a poacher when my intent is/was to help a faction member with a boss etc due to the mechanic of taking 50% of their take from the faction ally that engaged the mob, we rec'd equal full amounts, I'd be in there with my bloody shirt instead of not at all1 -
preevious✭✭✭✭✭
✭I, for one, don't like PvP.
However, I think that having leads dropping from every activity, including pvp, was a real stroke of genius fom ZoS.
Antiquities are awesome, and anyone can do everything. Nothing is that hard.2 -
StamPlar_1976✭✭✭✭Kiyakotari wrote: »In my mind, the biggest difference is that when a PvP player goes into a PvE activity looking for something that they need (dungeon, trial, world boss farming, etc) the other (PvE) players that they encounter are almost certainly going to be helpful to them, and assist them in reaching their goal (defeating the final dungeon boss for the monster set, clearing the various dungeon bosses for gear drops - and possibly offering their own drops up if they don't need them - to help the PvP player complete a set, killing world bosses or public dungeon bosses for gear, and so on). Yes, there are jerks everywhere, and occasionally there are PvE players who will boot someone from group if they aren't "pulling their weight," but there are also a lot (in my experience, by far a majority) of PvE players who will happily keep someone in their group who clearly doesn't yet know mechanics, and will instead take the time before boss fights to offer up tips or a brief explanation of the mechanics, or will invite the new-to-the-dungeon player into Discord voice so they can explain mechanics that way.
This environment provides a stark contrast when held up against the experience of a PvE player entering a PvP activity for something that they need (whether it is unlocking skill points through PvP ranks, grabbing the skyshards in PvP areas, or completing certain quests or dailies in PvP areas to participate in an event or receive a particular achievement reward) and encountering one or more PvP players. The nature of PvP means that players from an enemy faction will of course attack (and almost certainly kill - most PvE players are not geared for or experienced in PvP combat) the PvE player when they run into the PvE player. Unless they're nice and honor the "block and crouch" truce gesture. And honestly, I'm not generally bothered when someone does that to me. They're PvPing, after all, and until they attack they often have no way to know that I'm PvE. However, when someone does gank a PvE player, and brings them down very quickly, if they're very experienced or intelligent at all, they'll know the person they just "fought" was not set up for PvP. If they stay, and camp the location, waiting to kill the PvE player when they return to complete whatever task they had been set on by their NPC overlord, that is when they cross the line from "just a PvPer doing PvP things" into "a g*ds-be-d***ed lazy a**h*l*" for me. Likewise, when a PvPer or group of PvPers camps a quest giver during a PvP event (upcoming Midyear Mayhem, I'm looking at you) and kills every enemy player that approaches it, keeping them from picking up and/or turning in their daily quests, and thus from properly participating in the event. That's not PvPing, that's griefing, in my opinion. And it's behaviors like that which make so many PvE players so sour about anything that pushes them into PvP zones.
Thing is. That is entirely your opinion. It isn't fact or stated anywhere in the rules. If somebody wants to kill someone in a pvp area, regardless of what activity, ZOS has mandated it is legal for that attacker to do so. You don't have to like it. But that is the rules as made by the people who created their game. Whatever made up rules or "codes of chivalry" you think should happen, is irrelevant. That person is playing by the rules of the game as dictated by ZOS. Don't like it, take it up with @ZOS_BrianWheeler. But I'm pretty sure he doesn't give a dang about your chivalry lol.4 -
khajiitNPC✭✭✭✭✭[Snip] Here is magic word. LFG.
[Edited for bait]Edited by ZOS_Volpe on June 9, 2020 6:35PM0 -
StamPlar_1976✭✭✭✭Integral1900 wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »My daugther finds PvE dead boring,
but she loves ganking PvE players
looking for leads in PvP city.
Thank you ZOS for more easy prey!
And people wonder why it’s dam near impossible to get PVE players into PVP for anything other than short unpleasant bursts
Gankers don't care about that, they look at your health pool. Both pvers and pvpers are targets, but pvpers are less likely to die to gankers because they got better at the game, simple as that.
Why don't you guys try to do the same? Imagine if i asked for a dungeon or trial to get nerfed just because i don't want to put enough effort into it or learn the mechanics... Silly, isn't it?
The random ganker who runs by and stops to kill me while I'm fishing I have no use for and actually wonder what is wrong with someone who goes out of their way to harrass someone.
Ok, define "ganker", because most people regardless their class kill on sight, doesn't matter if you are fishing, repairing a wall, buying sieges or going from Sej to BRK. That's not harassment, that's pvp.
That's acutally not true at all. More often than not if I'm fishing or completing PVE objetives MOST of the PVP'ers just pass right by, sometimes I see them slow down a bit (like they are checking me out) and then speed back up to get where they were going. It's happened while fishing, in delves, farming, questing, every aspect of PVE play. Those are the PVP'ers I enjoy playing with during PVP events and even sometimes just cuz.
If some people don't want to attack you then fine, but the ones who do also got the right to do it, it's a pvp area after all. You want everyone to follow your made up rules, and that's not how it works.
I, for instance, hate it when i'm fighting outnumbered in front of an enemy keep and 3 or 4 "brave players" decide to drop their cold fire ballista on me, but you won't see me telling them how they should play.A ganker is someone who doesn't care to do something constructive or useful with his/her game time, so they are often sighted grouping up and attacking from behind while they are doing something, fighting something else or recover from a fight. They will camp you and re-kill you, they will /say stupid things and actually aren't really wanted by GOOD PVP'ers either.
A ganker is someone who sacrifices their survivability for damage, and does that to get AP, which is quite useful, so i wouldn't say they are wasting their time. Personally i don't enjoy playing as a ganker, but again, i'm not gonna tell people how they should have fun. Also most of them are easy to kill anyway, you just need to know how to deal with them.
Btw, there's no such thing as "camping someone" in this game. If you get ganked and decide to respawn in the same keep and leave through the same door then it's on you
And herein lies the problem! You don't even want to hear or consider the other side of the debate.
Because there is no other side. Your trying to instill your own made up sense of what the rules are that do not exist. That pvper who attacks you doesn't have to follow your made up code of chivalry. They are playing by the rules of the game and are within their rights to attack you at any time while you are in Cyrodiil or IC, regardless of the activity you are doing. Like I said before. If you can't deal with the rules that ZOS has in place, don't go there. It's that simple.3 -
mavfin✭✭✭✭I play many PvP games, and I'm fine with PvP.
However, the majority of people you run into while playing fantasy MMO PvP pretty much turn me off of it. Only a small minority of people in that pastime are worth spending any time with at all.
Make of that what you will.0 -
StamPlar_1976✭✭✭✭I play many PvP games, and I'm fine with PvP.
However, the majority of people you run into while playing fantasy MMO PvP pretty much turn me off of it. Only a small minority of people in that pastime are worth spending any time with at all.
Make of that what you will.
Ummmm..... Ok.... Good for you. 👌0 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Kiyakotari wrote: »In my mind, the biggest difference is that when a PvP player goes into a PvE activity looking for something that they need (dungeon, trial, world boss farming, etc) the other (PvE) players that they encounter are almost certainly going to be helpful to them, and assist them in reaching their goal (defeating the final dungeon boss for the monster set, clearing the various dungeon bosses for gear drops - and possibly offering their own drops up if they don't need them - to help the PvP player complete a set, killing world bosses or public dungeon bosses for gear, and so on). Yes, there are jerks everywhere, and occasionally there are PvE players who will boot someone from group if they aren't "pulling their weight," but there are also a lot (in my experience, by far a majority) of PvE players who will happily keep someone in their group who clearly doesn't yet know mechanics, and will instead take the time before boss fights to offer up tips or a brief explanation of the mechanics, or will invite the new-to-the-dungeon player into Discord voice so they can explain mechanics that way.
This environment provides a stark contrast when held up against the experience of a PvE player entering a PvP activity for something that they need (whether it is unlocking skill points through PvP ranks, grabbing the skyshards in PvP areas, or completing certain quests or dailies in PvP areas to participate in an event or receive a particular achievement reward) and encountering one or more PvP players. The nature of PvP means that players from an enemy faction will of course attack (and almost certainly kill - most PvE players are not geared for or experienced in PvP combat) the PvE player when they run into the PvE player. Unless they're nice and honor the "block and crouch" truce gesture. And honestly, I'm not generally bothered when someone does that to me. They're PvPing, after all, and until they attack they often have no way to know that I'm PvE. However, when someone does gank a PvE player, and brings them down very quickly, if they're very experienced or intelligent at all, they'll know the person they just "fought" was not set up for PvP. If they stay, and camp the location, waiting to kill the PvE player when they return to complete whatever task they had been set on by their NPC overlord, that is when they cross the line from "just a PvPer doing PvP things" into "a g*ds-be-d***ed lazy a**h*l*" for me. Likewise, when a PvPer or group of PvPers camps a quest giver during a PvP event (upcoming Midyear Mayhem, I'm looking at you) and kills every enemy player that approaches it, keeping them from picking up and/or turning in their daily quests, and thus from properly participating in the event. That's not PvPing, that's griefing, in my opinion. And it's behaviors like that which make so many PvE players so sour about anything that pushes them into PvP zones.
I get that camping quest givers is frustrating but...
They aren't preventing you from properly participating. There's tons of ways to get rewards from the event beyond that particular quest giver (which ZOS fully intended those quests to be done with the threat of PVP.) They might be preventing you from participating in your preferred way, but you can still participate. Just like those AD defenders at Alessia preventing me from finishing my "Capture Castle Alessia" quest aren't preventing me from participating in the event properly. I've got options. So do you. Maybe not ones we want to take, but we've got options.
I understand the frustration, but can we please not make claims that are untrue?
Some leads (which is what this thread is about) only drop from rewards of particular quest givers. So if they are being camped then yes, those players could be could be preventing participation.3 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭khajiitNPC wrote: »[Snip] Here is magic word. LFG.
[Edited for bait]
This is thread is about leads which can be off the beaten path of sieges and keeps.Edited by ZOS_Volpe on June 9, 2020 6:36PM0 -
Fur_like_snow✭✭✭✭✭
✭They should add more collectibles to PvP zones. This was a great idea credit where it’s due ZoS. 👍🏻1 -
mav1234✭✭✭✭✭khajiitNPC wrote: »[Snip] Here is magic word. LFG.
[Edited for bait]
This is thread is about leads which can be off the beaten path of sieges and keeps.
I don't know all of Cyrodil's leads, but the mythic leads in IC were easy enough to find a group for.Edited by ZOS_Volpe on June 9, 2020 6:36PM1 -
mav1234✭✭✭✭✭Agenericname wrote: »Its also a dichotomy that mostly exists here in the forums. A lot of people do both. The largest percentage of player is most likely "do not PvP at all" but I'd wager that the percentage that partake in both is rather high. So when someone meets me in vet Scale Caller Peak looking for a Zaan's and I help them, more than likely they'll chalk it up to a nice PvEer simply because that's where they met me, but it's not really what happened because I do both. It's the same in PvP. Many of my friends do both.
This is very true! This forum has a bad habit of segregating the playerbase in ways that, I do not think, represent a lot of players. In fact, there's all sorts of activities outside of PvP and PvE - for instance, I have made starter gear for dozens of new players. Am I a pvper or a pve'er? Am I a mean PvPer if I met those people in a PvPers stream? Am I a nice PvEer if I run a dungeon with them??
If I refuse to do trials, does that mean I'm not a PvEr?
just dumb stuff I think - I am glad the game has leads in lots of places. Some I hated doing, but I am glad the game has something for lots of audiences.
1 -
Xarc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »Sirona_Starr wrote: »Since antiquities is a PVE activity, putting leads in PVP is just a guaranteed frustration. If they were going to put PVE activity leads in PVP, then they should have put the leads, especially the IC ones, in safe zones, where all factions can do the pve thing without gankers and other sorts around. That makes sense.
Nope.
The leads for the PvP equipment (siege lancers) can only be excavated in a PvE zone. It goes both ways.
I 've got 2 dwemer siege lancer in cyrodiil. one lead in a dolmen chest, and one other lead at a daily pvp quest reward.
but it's excavated in pve zone yes
Edited by Xarc on June 9, 2020 6:26PM@xarcs FR-EU-PC -Please visit my house ingame !
sorry for my english, it's not my native language, I'm french
"Death is overrated", Xarc
Xãrc -- breton necro - DC - AvA rank50
Xarcus -- imperial DK - DC - AvA rank50 - [pve] pureclass
Elnaa - breton NB - DC - AvA rank50
Xärc -- breton NB - DC - AvA rank49 - [pve] pureclass
Isilenil - Altmer NB - AD - AvA rank41
Felisja - Bosmer NB - DC - AvA rank41
Glàdys - redguard templar - DC - AvA rank40 - [pve & pvp] pureclass
Xaljaa - breton NB - now EP - AvA rank39
Bakenecro - khajiit necro - DC - AvA rank28
Xalisja - bosmer necro - DC - AvA ?
Shurgha - orc warden EP - AvA rank? [pve & pvp]pureclass
Scarlętt - breton templar DC - AvA rank?
- in game since April 2014
- on the forum since December 20140 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Kiyakotari wrote: »In my mind, the biggest difference is that when a PvP player goes into a PvE activity looking for something that they need (dungeon, trial, world boss farming, etc) the other (PvE) players that they encounter are almost certainly going to be helpful to them, and assist them in reaching their goal (defeating the final dungeon boss for the monster set, clearing the various dungeon bosses for gear drops - and possibly offering their own drops up if they don't need them - to help the PvP player complete a set, killing world bosses or public dungeon bosses for gear, and so on). Yes, there are jerks everywhere, and occasionally there are PvE players who will boot someone from group if they aren't "pulling their weight," but there are also a lot (in my experience, by far a majority) of PvE players who will happily keep someone in their group who clearly doesn't yet know mechanics, and will instead take the time before boss fights to offer up tips or a brief explanation of the mechanics, or will invite the new-to-the-dungeon player into Discord voice so they can explain mechanics that way.
This environment provides a stark contrast when held up against the experience of a PvE player entering a PvP activity for something that they need (whether it is unlocking skill points through PvP ranks, grabbing the skyshards in PvP areas, or completing certain quests or dailies in PvP areas to participate in an event or receive a particular achievement reward) and encountering one or more PvP players. The nature of PvP means that players from an enemy faction will of course attack (and almost certainly kill - most PvE players are not geared for or experienced in PvP combat) the PvE player when they run into the PvE player. Unless they're nice and honor the "block and crouch" truce gesture. And honestly, I'm not generally bothered when someone does that to me. They're PvPing, after all, and until they attack they often have no way to know that I'm PvE. However, when someone does gank a PvE player, and brings them down very quickly, if they're very experienced or intelligent at all, they'll know the person they just "fought" was not set up for PvP. If they stay, and camp the location, waiting to kill the PvE player when they return to complete whatever task they had been set on by their NPC overlord, that is when they cross the line from "just a PvPer doing PvP things" into "a g*ds-be-d***ed lazy a**h*l*" for me. Likewise, when a PvPer or group of PvPers camps a quest giver during a PvP event (upcoming Midyear Mayhem, I'm looking at you) and kills every enemy player that approaches it, keeping them from picking up and/or turning in their daily quests, and thus from properly participating in the event. That's not PvPing, that's griefing, in my opinion. And it's behaviors like that which make so many PvE players so sour about anything that pushes them into PvP zones.
I get that camping quest givers is frustrating but...
They aren't preventing you from properly participating. There's tons of ways to get rewards from the event beyond that particular quest giver (which ZOS fully intended those quests to be done with the threat of PVP.) They might be preventing you from participating in your preferred way, but you can still participate. Just like those AD defenders at Alessia preventing me from finishing my "Capture Castle Alessia" quest aren't preventing me from participating in the event properly. I've got options. So do you. Maybe not ones we want to take, but we've got options.
I understand the frustration, but can we please not make claims that are untrue?
Some leads (which is what this thread is about) only drop from rewards of particular quest givers. So if they are being camped then yes, those players could be could be preventing participation.
Those leads were intentionally put in a PvP enabled zone. In pvp there is really no other content than other players, therefore you are the content in any PvP enabled zone. In IC there is PvE, but PvP is always the dominant ruleset.
They're not preventing you from participating, they're engaging you in that content. They're preventing or hindering you from getting the lead, not from participating because the conflict is the content.khajiitNPC wrote: »[Snip] Here is magic word. LFG.
[Edited for bait]
This is thread is about leads which can be off the beaten path of sieges and keeps.
That doesn't exclude the possibility of finding a group at all. It assume that nobody that PvPs is pursuing antiquities. That's not the case at all.1 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Agenericname wrote: »rotaugen454 wrote: »I went to get the lead in IC. The room was full of EP. I switched to n EP character. Problem solved.rotaugen454 wrote: »I went to get the lead in IC. The room was full of EP. I switched to n EP character. Problem solved.
Same, except I didn't change. They waved, I waved, we all left with the lead.
And those are the true PVP'ers!
I love these types of encounters! So rare for me to run across real true pvpers in ESO.
Shame so many others give pvp a terrible reputation and embody the exact opposite of what pvp is about.There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway2 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sirona_Starr wrote: »Since antiquities is a PVE activity, putting leads in PVP is just a guaranteed frustration. If they were going to put PVE activity leads in PVP, then they should have put the leads, especially the IC ones, in safe zones, where all factions can do the pve thing without gankers and other sorts around. That makes sense.
But the Mythic items (which are the ones that have some leads in IC) are mostly a PvP build thing, so I think it's perfectly fine for them to be in a zone that has the risk of PvP.
I'll get them all eventually. I'm just not in a hurry to get them all in a week or two.The Moot Councillor1 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sirona_Starr wrote: »Since antiquities is a PVE activity, putting leads in PVP is just a guaranteed frustration. If they were going to put PVE activity leads in PVP, then they should have put the leads, especially the IC ones, in safe zones, where all factions can do the pve thing without gankers and other sorts around. That makes sense.
But the Mythic items (which are the ones that have some leads in IC) are mostly a PvP build thing, so I think it's perfectly fine for them to be in a zone that has the risk of PvP.
I'll get them all eventually. I'm just not in a hurry to get them all in a week or two.
A) No not really, most antiquities gear are both pvp and pve.
B ) There is more to Antiquities then gear.
Edited by BlueRaven on June 9, 2020 8:34PM0 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
So pvpers having to pve to get most of the stuff is fine but pvers going to Cyro/IC occasionally is not? Ok.
I was thinking the same thing. I play both, but know many PVPers that hate PVE and have been griping about having to go do PVE zones, trials, etc.. to get all the antiquities!1 -
Fur_like_snow✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sirona_Starr wrote: »Since antiquities is a PVE activity, putting leads in PVP is just a guaranteed frustration. If they were going to put PVE activity leads in PVP, then they should have put the leads, especially the IC ones, in safe zones, where all factions can do the pve thing without gankers and other sorts around. That makes sense.
But the Mythic items (which are the ones that have some leads in IC) are mostly a PvP build thing, so I think it's perfectly fine for them to be in a zone that has the risk of PvP.
I'll get them all eventually. I'm just not in a hurry to get them all in a week or two.
A) No not really, most antiquities gear are both pvp and pve.
B ) There is more to Antiquities then gear.
No serious DD is running the band in trials. It IS a PvP mythic.Edited by Fur_like_snow on June 9, 2020 8:51PM2
This discussion has been closed.