I have been main tanking since mid 2000 in WoW and always PUGGING. I have been Tanking since Beta and really only play tank. I've also ran PuG Normal trials, done all Vet Craglorn trials and dabbled in main tanking on Vet DLC Trials. To the OP who asked how we do it... I use rules, I stick to my rules.
#1. I don't put up with trolls or smart asses. I give the group a chance to remove the offender if not I leave. PERIOD. No matter what and that keeps me pretty sane.
#2. If the dps is low I mention, try not to be rude but I make it clear the dps is too low. I then see what the reaction is. If they get nasty refer to rule #1 - if they are apologetic then I will generally run them through and use a selfish set so that I do not die even if everyone else has died
#3. I move quickly, but if anyone pulls in front of me I point out it is slower if they open up aggro. If they get smart refer to rule #1
Remember as a tank in PUG queue you are the most important role, DPS are dime a dozen and therefore a smart alec DPS should always feel the wrath of a group kick or the pain of a group falling apart.
Protossyder wrote: »
Why? Because it puts you to shame that the "tank" kills everything before you even drop your first AoE?
What do you think is the best tank build to run for pugs? A more traditional build that boosts your dps with buffs.. or a build that can contribute dps itself and maybe make up for potentially bad pug dps?
gatekeeper13 wrote: »What do you think is the best tank build to run for pugs? A more traditional build that boosts your dps with buffs.. or a build that can contribute dps itself and maybe make up for potentially bad pug dps?
The one that buffs the group, helps teammates stay alive, crowd controls and debuffs the bosses.
Tanks are not there to dps. If they do high dps, then they are fake tanks.
^^ Agreed!Protossyder wrote: »
Why? Because it puts you to shame that the "tank" kills everything before you even drop your first AoE?
Well, yes, that can be annoying if I wasn't looking to just plow through the dungeon without having to do anything on my part. But what's far worse is when he doesn't kill everything before anyone else can get a shot off. That typically means the boss goes wild, wipes the group, and the so called tank goes on a rant about how everyone else sucks and has low DPS right before he ragequits.
gatekeeper13 wrote: »What do you think is the best tank build to run for pugs? A more traditional build that boosts your dps with buffs.. or a build that can contribute dps itself and maybe make up for potentially bad pug dps?
The one that buffs the group, helps teammates stay alive, crowd controls and debuffs the bosses.
Tanks are not there to dps. If they do high dps, then they are fake tanks.
You're right in theory in a perfect world where everyone knows what they are doing and has content-appropriate performance (basically guild groups). But in practice, when you're running PUGs, you have to compensate for a(ny) group's weaknesses if you want to get a completion. If the weakness is DDs dying by ignoring 1-shot mechanics, no amount of buffs and crowd control is going to save them.
If your goal is to educate people, sure, run a trial buff bot setup and leave the group when you get stuck, that'll surely teach them. But if your goal is completion, your success rate will be much higher with a hybrid build that is fully capable of performing the tank role in your target content, but can also provide damage and healing on demand if either is lacking.
Even if you are able to provide all these buffs with 100% uptime, it still doesn't add as much dps to group as if you just did straight dps. Healers should be doing dps in dungeons, buffing and healing is only needed in trials. Especially if your pug dungeon group dps is 4 digit lol. Your buffs would only add 1k dps lmao.
When tanking, DPS sometimes starts out terrible. Two bosses later, they are killing it! An opportunity a fake tank took away from the DD"s, as they had to run around to stay alive. Instead of being able to learn an optinal DPS style.
gatekeeper13 wrote: »What do you think is the best tank build to run for pugs? A more traditional build that boosts your dps with buffs.. or a build that can contribute dps itself and maybe make up for potentially bad pug dps?
The one that buffs the group, helps teammates stay alive, crowd controls and debuffs the bosses.
Tanks are not there to dps. If they do high dps, then they are fake tanks.
You're right in theory in a perfect world where everyone knows what they are doing and has content-appropriate performance (basically guild groups). But in practice, when you're running PUGs, you have to compensate for a(ny) group's weaknesses if you want to get a completion. If the weakness is DDs dying by ignoring 1-shot mechanics, no amount of buffs and crowd control is going to save them.
If your goal is to educate people, sure, run a trial buff bot setup and leave the group when you get stuck, that'll surely teach them. But if your goal is completion, your success rate will be much higher with a hybrid build that is fully capable of performing the tank role in your target content, but can also provide damage and healing on demand if either is lacking.
VoidCommander wrote: »FrancisCrawford wrote: »I don't get this thread, or at least the title.
This has nothing to do with tanks doing their job, it's more about being paired with people who can't properly do their role. Which is equally frustrating for everyone, not just tanks. Tanks and DDs at least have some kind of power role when it comes to dungeons, healers are the ones who are really screwed if they have to play with noobs since they can't finish a boss nor take the aggro.
I'd think that most healers can easily pull half or more of the DPS they would if they were built for DPS. If that's not true with your exact default healing build, it should at least be true with minor changes that still leave you able to perform your most essential functions.
When it cones down to a healer giving consista t buffs to the group, with things like major courage, minor berserk, elemental drain, they should be pulling their weight with those buffs/debuffs alone.
Even if you are able to provide all these buffs with 100% uptime, it still doesn't add as much dps to group as if you just did straight dps. Healers should be doing dps in dungeons, buffing and healing is only needed in trials. Especially if your pug dungeon group dps is 4 digit lol. Your buffs would only add 1k dps lmao.
VoidCommander wrote: »FrancisCrawford wrote: »I don't get this thread, or at least the title.
This has nothing to do with tanks doing their job, it's more about being paired with people who can't properly do their role. Which is equally frustrating for everyone, not just tanks. Tanks and DDs at least have some kind of power role when it comes to dungeons, healers are the ones who are really screwed if they have to play with noobs since they can't finish a boss nor take the aggro.
I'd think that most healers can easily pull half or more of the DPS they would if they were built for DPS. If that's not true with your exact default healing build, it should at least be true with minor changes that still leave you able to perform your most essential functions.
When it cones down to a healer giving consista t buffs to the group, with things like major courage, minor berserk, elemental drain, they should be pulling their weight with those buffs/debuffs alone.
Even if you are able to provide all these buffs with 100% uptime, it still doesn't add as much dps to group as if you just did straight dps. Healers should be doing dps in dungeons, buffing and healing is only needed in trials. Especially if your pug dungeon group dps is 4 digit lol. Your buffs would only add 1k dps lmao.
The only way your buffs don't add a significant amount of dps is if they already do extremely low dps (like 10k or so). The buffs the healer provides are a force multiplier and if you have a group that can do 25k, your buffs should be able to take them up into the 30-35k range. If you're just trying to do dps without applying buffs/debuffs, you're not only cheating your group, but your own dps will be lower too.
It's not that bad, usually I finish normal & vet dungeons with most pugs quite easily.Now the nightmare begins, even in normal random dungeons dps is extremly low, people using ice staffs stealing aggro, normal dlc dungeons with a pug feel like the special olympics. This isn't fun at all. Can't be fun for the healer and can't be fun for the dps.
Weird, maybe it's not the DD's at fault there...When tanking, DPS sometimes starts out terrible. Two bosses later, they are killing it! An opportunity a fake tank took away from the DD"s, as they had to run around to stay alive. Instead of being able to learn an optinal DPS style.
That's a hard no. In 6 years in ESO I've yet to see that. I have however seen the exact opposite almost without fail, because bosses get progressively harder in dungeons. And if you can't parse well on the first boss that's a simple "tank and spank" , the probability of parsing better with the same gear and skills while also having to play extra boss mechanics is hovering at around 0%.
You want to learn to DPS, you read on ideal gear setups for your class/style and practice in front of a dummy. That's step 1. You want to DPS better on particular bosses/fights, you just play the bosses again and again (to eliminate mistakes) but that only works if you've already done step 1 and know how to DPS.
Weird, maybe it's not the DD's at fault there...When tanking, DPS sometimes starts out terrible. Two bosses later, they are killing it! An opportunity a fake tank took away from the DD"s, as they had to run around to stay alive. Instead of being able to learn an optinal DPS style.
That's a hard no. In 6 years in ESO I've yet to see that. I have however seen the exact opposite almost without fail, because bosses get progressively harder in dungeons. And if you can't parse well on the first boss that's a simple "tank and spank" , the probability of parsing better with the same gear and skills while also having to play extra boss mechanics is hovering at around 0%.
You want to learn to DPS, you read on ideal gear setups for your class/style and practice in front of a dummy. That's step 1. You want to DPS better on particular bosses/fights, you just play the bosses again and again (to eliminate mistakes) but that only works if you've already done step 1 and know how to DPS.
I'm sure most casual players don' t even know how to find a target dummy.it's pretty clear it's the DDs fault if they can't parse well on a boss with as many mechanics as a target dummy.
I was hinting at maybe you are not good on holding aggro, meaning the DD's have to run around. Massively lowering their DPS.Weird, maybe it's not the DD's at fault there...When tanking, DPS sometimes starts out terrible. Two bosses later, they are killing it! An opportunity a fake tank took away from the DD"s, as they had to run around to stay alive. Instead of being able to learn an optinal DPS style.
That's a hard no. In 6 years in ESO I've yet to see that. I have however seen the exact opposite almost without fail, because bosses get progressively harder in dungeons. And if you can't parse well on the first boss that's a simple "tank and spank" , the probability of parsing better with the same gear and skills while also having to play extra boss mechanics is hovering at around 0%.
You want to learn to DPS, you read on ideal gear setups for your class/style and practice in front of a dummy. That's step 1. You want to DPS better on particular bosses/fights, you just play the bosses again and again (to eliminate mistakes) but that only works if you've already done step 1 and know how to DPS.
No, it's pretty clear it's the DDs fault if they can't parse well on a boss with as many mechanics as a target dummy. The only weird thing here, is believing that DPS somehow magically improves over the course of a 20 min dungeon run while everything that affects DPS (gear, cp, skill level and group buffs) remains the same.
But hey, at least DDs shifting blame on tanks while unable to perform their own role well is as old as MMOs. Right?
What do you think is the best tank build to run for pugs? A more traditional build that boosts your dps with buffs.. or a build that can contribute dps itself and maybe make up for potentially bad pug dps?
How do you tanks out there manage to keep your temper?
How do you tanks out there manage to keep your temper?
If you pug dungeons, it's best to adjust your build. Most tanks who complain about low dps are usually experienced tanks, done trials and etc. New, no cp tanks who still learning are not generally impatient. So if you are experienced player, why are you even tanking normal dungeons lol? And why are you going in there with vet trial setup so you cant do more than 3k dps? Put on damage set and slot inner fire, keep bosses still and do 90% of the dps. No problem. You are not fake tank, you just made some adjustments as you would for vet harder content as required. Even vet dlc dungeon bosses dont hit so hard that you need to have 40k+ hp and have full tank sets. I know it's not your job but fo some damage if you find pugs too slow. You can easily tank any vet dlc dungeon with 30k hp and 1 dps set and do 20-25k dps. And when I say adjust I dont mean change cp or attributes. Just shuffle some gear, skills and food. If you use 1 setup for all the content, you will get frustrated.
Only people who are not that great themselves seem to complain the most.
slettieri204ub17_ESO wrote: »I pug a tremendous amount of vet dungeons and do enjoy the challenge of carry some less experienced players.
If the group is any good, I will always walk them thru the mechanics. It can be painful but usually players are very grateful when we get to the end and like to add me as a friend. This is probably the best case scenario.
When the group is just not good enough (dps wise), I will tell them im doing a couple more attempts then leaving.
Surprisingly, this can work to make them get through the fight sometimes.
There is no shame in abandoning your group after trying to coach them and giving them a fair number of attempts, that's really the most you can do.
Other times when I don't want to carry, I will just silently leave the group, I don't like doing this, but it just needs to happen sometimes.
red circle that slowly expanding warning of incoming aoe attacks
Weird, maybe it's not the DD's at fault there...When tanking, DPS sometimes starts out terrible. Two bosses later, they are killing it! An opportunity a fake tank took away from the DD"s, as they had to run around to stay alive. Instead of being able to learn an optinal DPS style.
That's a hard no. In 6 years in ESO I've yet to see that. I have however seen the exact opposite almost without fail, because bosses get progressively harder in dungeons. And if you can't parse well on the first boss that's a simple "tank and spank" , the probability of parsing better with the same gear and skills while also having to play extra boss mechanics is hovering at around 0%.
You want to learn to DPS, you read on ideal gear setups for your class/style and practice in front of a dummy. That's step 1. You want to DPS better on particular bosses/fights, you just play the bosses again and again (to eliminate mistakes) but that only works if you've already done step 1 and know how to DPS.
No, it's pretty clear it's the DDs fault if they can't parse well on a boss with as many mechanics as a target dummy. The only weird thing here, is believing that DPS somehow magically improves over the course of a 20 min dungeon run while everything that affects DPS (gear, cp, skill level and group buffs) remains the same.
But hey, at least DDs shifting blame on tanks while unable to perform their own role well is as old as MMOs. Right?