f047ys3v3n wrote: »

80% of the time the whole unkillable 1vX thing is just cheats plain and simple. Sure, there have been times in the game when proc sets were particularly OP, resources were virtually limitless, you had powerful damage / heal skills that scaled together or dynamic ulti-regen that builds really could do the things people pretend they can do now but that is not the case anymore. There are always big trades to damage / endurance / resistance now. Those who are rolling all three are just cheating plain and simple and it is not really that hard to tell who is doing it for even a moderately experienced player.

Jeremy wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

What I find truly disturbing is that although 1vX is a very learnable skill, the people who say it is hacks or builds or addons or X excuse have never even attempted to learn it. Their egos are rationalizing away their losses rather than attempting to learn from them.

And I’ve never seen a good player who thinks ESO PvP isn’t skill based. It’s not as skill based as it was, but it’s still extremely skill based.

The people who say that all you need to be good at PvP is an addon and a build all have one thing in common - they’ve never put on “that build” or used “that addon”. Usually they rationalize this by saying they don’t want to be a meta jumper, or they don’t want an unfair advantage. This is, of course, BS, seeing as how all addons get info specifically designed for our clients to have as determined by ZOS. All sets are in the game and are balanced by ZOS. The real reason some people don’t do this is because then they’d run out of excuses for why they keep losing.

If you think eso PvP is based around builds or addons, get the addons and put on the build and prove it.

Until they do, these people are literally talking about something they’ve never even attempted as if they were an authority on the matter. They clearly aren’t.

I look forward to fighting more people who will lose with excuses and stay ignorant rather than being humble enough to admit that there’s still more to learn, more ways to improve, and more builds to try. I always need more eXtras to feature on my stream and in YouTube uploads.

The day I think I know everything about this game is the day I stop improving.

For people who might be curious, you’re welcome to watch me live stream. For people who think skill isn’t a factor, I challenge any of you to a 1v1 same build vs same build. *Insert “dueling isn’t skill based LUL” comment from them.*. Oh yeah? Then how come same build v same build the people who say this lose every time?

It’s immaturity and ego, plain and simple.

Nah. It's not nearly that plain and simple.

The only way to have a truly fair fight is to PvP on console (and even that may not be full proof).

A lot of the players who think they are so "skilled" (and I'm not referring to you, as I don't know your specific situation) use macros, special hardware (mouses that record scripted actions etc.), and a vast assortment of addons. it's usually quite easy to spot too - because a lot of them react at exactly the same speeds using exactly the same skills like a damn program. It's like fighting a robot with pre -programmed responses. It's hilarious too because at times you can exploit it by triggering the programmed response at inopportune times. But under normal circumstances it would certainly give them an advantage in response time. Then there are those who use simpler macros to string light attacks onto literally every action they do and never miss a beat, not even while circling or jumping or turning backwards in midair.

Then there are all those addons, that track specific actions for players, giving them endless notifications of various attacks and projectiles. These people like to pretend this is skill that enables them to react quicker and faster to incoming attacks then their opponent, but the truth is it's more likely they just have a more detailed interface than their opponent does.

Now I'm not suggesting this is "cheating". ZoS decides what is considered cheating on their game, not me. But this game's PvP is not fair and only seldom skill based. I would never consider any PvP tournament on this game valid
for example unless it took place on console, because there are just way too many advantages players have access to on PC that their opponents - for what ever reason - may not have. I saw this same thing happen on WoW, when PvP tournaments were won based more on what addons and macros the team had rather then the skill of their members.

Now so long as I'm having fun, none of this is a game breaker for me . Just don't expect me to buy into the illusion that this game's PvP is some competitive skill-based masterpiece. It's not. It's not even close to that.

No addon does that in PvP. This is exactly the kind of unfounded accusation I was talking about. That addon literally doesn’t exist. If it does exist, please tell me where to download it.

People keep saying “oh this set is op and carries people to be too tanky and do dmg with sustain” and “oh this addon tells people when to block and dodge in PvP”

And I keep asking “WHICH SET?” and “WHICH ADDON?” And all I hear back is crickets.

You’re speculating about something you know nothing about, and your argument will remain invalid until you tell us, specifically, what sets and addons you’re talking about. Bonus points if you actually use said sets and said addons so that you can demonstrate you actually have some basic level of familiarity with what you’re claiming to be an expert on.

I don't remember claiming to be an expert. Can you please quote the relevant portion of my post where I supposedly claimed this?

But I know how to read threads that talk about recommend addons for PvP and then go online examine what those said addons purport to do. I'll give a few examples:

Key features:

1. Channeled attacks notification. Each channeled attack in the game has a start time(when the button is pressed) and an end time (when the attack actually fires). The addon provides an on-screen notification when a channelled attack against the player starts. This notification has the icon of the attack's ability and the name of the player initiating the attack.

Channeled attacks being tracked are:
- all heavy attacks (besides lightning staff and restoration staff),
- Snipe (Focused Aim, Lethal Arrow),
- Uppercut (Dizzying Swing, Wrecking Blow),
- Dark Flare/Solar Flare,
- hard-casted Crystal Fragments,
- Assassin's Will/Scourge,
- Ambush,
- Lotus Fan,
- Screaming Cliffracer and Cutting Dive.

2. Notifications for key projectiles. When you are the target of a projectile skill from the list you will get a sound and visual notification when the projectile is launched. Covered skills are:

- Crystal Blast and morphs,
- Javelin and morphs,
- Flame Reach and Shock Touch,
- Stormfist and morphs,
- Assassin's Will/Scourge,
- Shield Charge and its morphs,
- Toppling Charge,
- Unrelenting Grip,
- Scatter shot and its morphs,

The reasoning here is to alert the player about either hard hitting projectiles or those that stun on impact. While shield and toppling charges are not technically projectiles, they stun the player and, thus fall under this category.

5. KOS/COOL system. This feature allows you to add a person to KOS list and to get notified if this person attacked you or you mouseovered him on any character of his account.

Additionally the KOS list shows friends who are nearby.

As a separate feature KOS window shows people on your your COOL list. People added to this list (through context menu, keybind) are treated as friends throughout the addon. Think about a second friend list for cool people who didn't make it into you real friend list.

KOS window has 4 distinct modes. In 'All' mode both friends and KOS targets are shown. In "Allies" mode only friends/COOLs and KOS targets of the same faction as the player are shown. In "Enemies" mode the list will only have KOS targets who are not from the same faction as the player. And lastly in "Setup" mode you will see a scrollable list of all the players you added to the KOS list.

I won't bore you with more examples. But these addons claim to do pretty much exactly what I said they did.

And I didn't just mention addons either. I also talked about macros and specialized mouses that allow players to record scripted actions etc. There are just a lot of factors that can go into not just PvP - but the game play generally - that can give players advantages over others. This is nothing new has been a thing on PC MMORPGs for as long as I can remember. It was certainly a thing on WoW as well (a huge thing actually). I played with addons and macros on that game myself. Why? Because it was a huge advantage to do so and made me more effective in combat. So I don't know why you feel a need to try and deny their existence and pretend no one has advantages over others on this game due to these kinds of added programs and it's all just pure skill. It would be better to just admit it. It doesn't take away from your own abilities or skill to do so. It's simply an acceptance of the reality. And it's not just in combat. There are addons on this game that give players significant advantages in other areas of the game as well, such as using the guild traders or farming materials etc. I could really go on and on. But I won't because this post is long enough already.

Sarousse wrote: »

There is only one problem making players unkillable in this game. I've been reporting this since day ONE.

CCs arent CCs (hard and soft). You can break any hard CC and stay perma immune to soft ones.

This leads to uncontrolled situations where people are unkillable.

And still the devs are adding game breaking items like the future snow treaders.

God, I wish I could be a hidden camera during one of their PvP meetings, facepalming the whole duration.

Kadoin wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

Be it cheating (which does happen) exploits, or just really good meta elite players, none of that matters... The plain fact is that it is utterly ridiculous and unrealistic (therefore immersion breaking in the extreme) for any individual to be able to survive against 10, or 15+ players combined attacks, all laying down their dots and big hits etc to little affect.

That is not a learn to play issue or anything else other than a really stupid system for combat/build.

Yeah I am sure when the game was designed and when any of us envisaged pvp what we hoped for was a Benny Hill side show of 1 player being chassed by X round and round a rock/tower etc. Yep, that's what I look for in all my fantasy games and film and books. #extremesarcasm

https://youtu.be/Zat9CRfUr-E?t=97

Most of the time I have found these players that do that and wipe to me when I am picking columbine and they try to jump me for no reason at all with their groups do so because:

1. They lack damage and are really tankier than I am
2. Using too many skills that can be rolled dodged
3. Having a false sense of security because of strength in numbers and too much confidence
4. Over reliance on proc sets
5. Over reliance on ball group tactics
6. Letting me heavy attack and out maneuver them point blank + cc , immobolize, and snare their group
7. Using techniques in a way that works against them -- like one guy spamming petrify or fear is just giving me free attack windows to fear them back with turn evil and kill them

and the biggest one:

8. BAD LUCK

You have to understand that when you use a tactic so often, people will counter it. Just like NBs that cross me soon regret it and come to the forums and start crying that cloak is broken because they got wiped.

The same tactic won't work all the time, because every tactic can be countered by rolling and blocking if you see it coming, and if your group can only use one tactic to put enough damage on a player then you are free kills once that player figures out that you can do nothing to them besides when your ults and/or proc sets are up.

Ironically, the players that complain about 1vX talk about tanks and broken build, but they happen to be the very players using them in groups and when a player counters them and their tactics with a corresponding build or tactics, it's always a "cheat."

I find it comical, because the nerfs will actually hurt the groups more than the solo players that will still continue to counter them or find builds that allow 1vX next patch, except they will get even more damage to do against the X than ever before in the next patch. So in a way, ZOS managed to buff the exact playstyle this thread is complaining about...don't you find it funny?

I really do and can't wait to be even more terrifying

Thogard wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

What I find truly disturbing is that although 1vX is a very learnable skill, the people who say it is hacks or builds or addons or X excuse have never even attempted to learn it. Their egos are rationalizing away their losses rather than attempting to learn from them.

And I’ve never seen a good player who thinks ESO PvP isn’t skill based. It’s not as skill based as it was, but it’s still extremely skill based.

The people who say that all you need to be good at PvP is an addon and a build all have one thing in common - they’ve never put on “that build” or used “that addon”. Usually they rationalize this by saying they don’t want to be a meta jumper, or they don’t want an unfair advantage. This is, of course, BS, seeing as how all addons get info specifically designed for our clients to have as determined by ZOS. All sets are in the game and are balanced by ZOS. The real reason some people don’t do this is because then they’d run out of excuses for why they keep losing.

If you think eso PvP is based around builds or addons, get the addons and put on the build and prove it.

Until they do, these people are literally talking about something they’ve never even attempted as if they were an authority on the matter. They clearly aren’t.

I look forward to fighting more people who will lose with excuses and stay ignorant rather than being humble enough to admit that there’s still more to learn, more ways to improve, and more builds to try. I always need more eXtras to feature on my stream and in YouTube uploads.

The day I think I know everything about this game is the day I stop improving.

For people who might be curious, you’re welcome to watch me live stream. For people who think skill isn’t a factor, I challenge any of you to a 1v1 same build vs same build. *Insert “dueling isn’t skill based LUL” comment from them.*. Oh yeah? Then how come same build v same build the people who say this lose every time?

It’s immaturity and ego, plain and simple.

Nah. It's not nearly that plain and simple.

The only way to have a truly fair fight is to PvP on console (and even that may not be full proof).

A lot of the players who think they are so "skilled" (and I'm not referring to you, as I don't know your specific situation) use macros, special hardware (mouses that record scripted actions etc.), and a vast assortment of addons. it's usually quite easy to spot too - because a lot of them react at exactly the same speeds using exactly the same skills like a damn program. It's like fighting a robot with pre -programmed responses. It's hilarious too because at times you can exploit it by triggering the programmed response at inopportune times. But under normal circumstances it would certainly give them an advantage in response time. Then there are those who use simpler macros to string light attacks onto literally every action they do and never miss a beat, not even while circling or jumping or turning backwards in midair.

Then there are all those addons, that track specific actions for players, giving them endless notifications of various attacks and projectiles. These people like to pretend this is skill that enables them to react quicker and faster to incoming attacks then their opponent, but the truth is it's more likely they just have a more detailed interface than their opponent does.

Now I'm not suggesting this is "cheating". ZoS decides what is considered cheating on their game, not me. But this game's PvP is not fair and only seldom skill based. I would never consider any PvP tournament on this game valid
for example unless it took place on console, because there are just way too many advantages players have access to on PC that their opponents - for what ever reason - may not have. I saw this same thing happen on WoW, when PvP tournaments were won based more on what addons and macros the team had rather then the skill of their members.

Now so long as I'm having fun, none of this is a game breaker for me . Just don't expect me to buy into the illusion that this game's PvP is some competitive skill-based masterpiece. It's not. It's not even close to that.

No addon does that in PvP. This is exactly the kind of unfounded accusation I was talking about. That addon literally doesn’t exist. If it does exist, please tell me where to download it.

People keep saying “oh this set is op and carries people to be too tanky and do dmg with sustain” and “oh this addon tells people when to block and dodge in PvP”

And I keep asking “WHICH SET?” and “WHICH ADDON?” And all I hear back is crickets.

You’re speculating about something you know nothing about, and your argument will remain invalid until you tell us, specifically, what sets and addons you’re talking about. Bonus points if you actually use said sets and said addons so that you can demonstrate you actually have some basic level of familiarity with what you’re claiming to be an expert on.

I don't remember claiming to be an expert. Can you please quote the relevant portion of my post where I supposedly claimed this?

But I know how to read threads that talk about recommend addons for PvP and then go online examine what those said addons purport to do. I'll give a few examples:

Key features:

1. Channeled attacks notification. Each channeled attack in the game has a start time(when the button is pressed) and an end time (when the attack actually fires). The addon provides an on-screen notification when a channelled attack against the player starts. This notification has the icon of the attack's ability and the name of the player initiating the attack.

Channeled attacks being tracked are:
- all heavy attacks (besides lightning staff and restoration staff),
- Snipe (Focused Aim, Lethal Arrow),
- Uppercut (Dizzying Swing, Wrecking Blow),
- Dark Flare/Solar Flare,
- hard-casted Crystal Fragments,
- Assassin's Will/Scourge,
- Ambush,
- Lotus Fan,
- Screaming Cliffracer and Cutting Dive.

2. Notifications for key projectiles. When you are the target of a projectile skill from the list you will get a sound and visual notification when the projectile is launched. Covered skills are:

- Crystal Blast and morphs,
- Javelin and morphs,
- Flame Reach and Shock Touch,
- Stormfist and morphs,
- Assassin's Will/Scourge,
- Shield Charge and its morphs,
- Toppling Charge,
- Unrelenting Grip,
- Scatter shot and its morphs,

The reasoning here is to alert the player about either hard hitting projectiles or those that stun on impact. While shield and toppling charges are not technically projectiles, they stun the player and, thus fall under this category.

5. KOS/COOL system. This feature allows you to add a person to KOS list and to get notified if this person attacked you or you mouseovered him on any character of his account.

Additionally the KOS list shows friends who are nearby.

As a separate feature KOS window shows people on your your COOL list. People added to this list (through context menu, keybind) are treated as friends throughout the addon. Think about a second friend list for cool people who didn't make it into you real friend list.

KOS window has 4 distinct modes. In 'All' mode both friends and KOS targets are shown. In "Allies" mode only friends/COOLs and KOS targets of the same faction as the player are shown. In "Enemies" mode the list will only have KOS targets who are not from the same faction as the player. And lastly in "Setup" mode you will see a scrollable list of all the players you added to the KOS list.

I won't bore you with more examples. But these addons claim to do pretty much exactly what I said they did.

And I didn't just mention addons either. I also talked about macros and specialized mouses that allow players to record scripted actions etc. There are just a lot of factors that can go into not just PvP - but the game play generally - that can give players advantages over others. This is nothing new has been a thing on PC MMORPGs for as long as I can remember. It was certainly a thing on WoW as well (a huge thing actually). I played with addons and macros on that game myself. Why? Because it was a huge advantage to do so and made me more effective in combat. So I don't know why you feel a need to try and deny their existence and pretend no one has advantages over others on this game due to these kinds of added programs and it's all just pure skill. It would be better to just admit it. It doesn't take away from your own abilities or skill to do so. It's simply an acceptance of the reality. And it's not just in combat. There are addons on this game that give players significant advantages in other areas of the game as well, such as using the guild traders or farming materials etc. I could really go on and on. But I won't because this post is long enough already.

This is the Miat's PvP Alerts addon and it no longer does any of those key features you mentioned. @Jeremy

This is why i think people should research and use what they're talking about before talking about it. You literally just posted an addon that hasn't worked for over two years as an example of an OP addon.

EDIT:

BTW @SHOW You might be my new favorite forum poster. You managed to appeal to both sides in a way that makes each of them appreciate you. 10/10, would like again.

Right now the tradeoff is between DMG/Healing, tankiness, and resource recovery. People with high dmg/healing tend to have low tankiness and low resource recovery. The better you get as a player, the more you can use tap-blocks and strategic rolls, as well as heavy attacks to make up for tankiness and resource recovery from sets...

My main point is that in order to run insanely high dmg/healing setups, you have to be askilled player because the sustain and the tankiness aren't coming from sets, they're coming from knowing what to do and when to do it to get the resources and tankiness.

Also i'm in essence thief, not fury, but i do put on fury from time to time hehe.

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

What I find truly disturbing is that although 1vX is a very learnable skill, the people who say it is hacks or builds or addons or X excuse have never even attempted to learn it. Their egos are rationalizing away their losses rather than attempting to learn from them.

And I’ve never seen a good player who thinks ESO PvP isn’t skill based. It’s not as skill based as it was, but it’s still extremely skill based.

The people who say that all you need to be good at PvP is an addon and a build all have one thing in common - they’ve never put on “that build” or used “that addon”. Usually they rationalize this by saying they don’t want to be a meta jumper, or they don’t want an unfair advantage. This is, of course, BS, seeing as how all addons get info specifically designed for our clients to have as determined by ZOS. All sets are in the game and are balanced by ZOS. The real reason some people don’t do this is because then they’d run out of excuses for why they keep losing.

If you think eso PvP is based around builds or addons, get the addons and put on the build and prove it.

Until they do, these people are literally talking about something they’ve never even attempted as if they were an authority on the matter. They clearly aren’t.

I look forward to fighting more people who will lose with excuses and stay ignorant rather than being humble enough to admit that there’s still more to learn, more ways to improve, and more builds to try. I always need more eXtras to feature on my stream and in YouTube uploads.

The day I think I know everything about this game is the day I stop improving.

For people who might be curious, you’re welcome to watch me live stream. For people who think skill isn’t a factor, I challenge any of you to a 1v1 same build vs same build. *Insert “dueling isn’t skill based LUL” comment from them.*. Oh yeah? Then how come same build v same build the people who say this lose every time?

It’s immaturity and ego, plain and simple.

Nah. It's not nearly that plain and simple.

The only way to have a truly fair fight is to PvP on console (and even that may not be full proof).

A lot of the players who think they are so "skilled" (and I'm not referring to you, as I don't know your specific situation) use macros, special hardware (mouses that record scripted actions etc.), and a vast assortment of addons. it's usually quite easy to spot too - because a lot of them react at exactly the same speeds using exactly the same skills like a damn program. It's like fighting a robot with pre -programmed responses. It's hilarious too because at times you can exploit it by triggering the programmed response at inopportune times. But under normal circumstances it would certainly give them an advantage in response time. Then there are those who use simpler macros to string light attacks onto literally every action they do and never miss a beat, not even while circling or jumping or turning backwards in midair.

Then there are all those addons, that track specific actions for players, giving them endless notifications of various attacks and projectiles. These people like to pretend this is skill that enables them to react quicker and faster to incoming attacks then their opponent, but the truth is it's more likely they just have a more detailed interface than their opponent does.

Now I'm not suggesting this is "cheating". ZoS decides what is considered cheating on their game, not me. But this game's PvP is not fair and only seldom skill based. I would never consider any PvP tournament on this game valid
for example unless it took place on console, because there are just way too many advantages players have access to on PC that their opponents - for what ever reason - may not have. I saw this same thing happen on WoW, when PvP tournaments were won based more on what addons and macros the team had rather then the skill of their members.

Now so long as I'm having fun, none of this is a game breaker for me . Just don't expect me to buy into the illusion that this game's PvP is some competitive skill-based masterpiece. It's not. It's not even close to that.

No addon does that in PvP. This is exactly the kind of unfounded accusation I was talking about. That addon literally doesn’t exist. If it does exist, please tell me where to download it.

People keep saying “oh this set is op and carries people to be too tanky and do dmg with sustain” and “oh this addon tells people when to block and dodge in PvP”

And I keep asking “WHICH SET?” and “WHICH ADDON?” And all I hear back is crickets.

You’re speculating about something you know nothing about, and your argument will remain invalid until you tell us, specifically, what sets and addons you’re talking about. Bonus points if you actually use said sets and said addons so that you can demonstrate you actually have some basic level of familiarity with what you’re claiming to be an expert on.

I don't remember claiming to be an expert. Can you please quote the relevant portion of my post where I supposedly claimed this?

But I know how to read threads that talk about recommend addons for PvP and then go online examine what those said addons purport to do. I'll give a few examples:

Key features:

1. Channeled attacks notification. Each channeled attack in the game has a start time(when the button is pressed) and an end time (when the attack actually fires). The addon provides an on-screen notification when a channelled attack against the player starts. This notification has the icon of the attack's ability and the name of the player initiating the attack.

Channeled attacks being tracked are:
- all heavy attacks (besides lightning staff and restoration staff),
- Snipe (Focused Aim, Lethal Arrow),
- Uppercut (Dizzying Swing, Wrecking Blow),
- Dark Flare/Solar Flare,
- hard-casted Crystal Fragments,
- Assassin's Will/Scourge,
- Ambush,
- Lotus Fan,
- Screaming Cliffracer and Cutting Dive.

2. Notifications for key projectiles. When you are the target of a projectile skill from the list you will get a sound and visual notification when the projectile is launched. Covered skills are:

- Crystal Blast and morphs,
- Javelin and morphs,
- Flame Reach and Shock Touch,
- Stormfist and morphs,
- Assassin's Will/Scourge,
- Shield Charge and its morphs,
- Toppling Charge,
- Unrelenting Grip,
- Scatter shot and its morphs,

The reasoning here is to alert the player about either hard hitting projectiles or those that stun on impact. While shield and toppling charges are not technically projectiles, they stun the player and, thus fall under this category.

5. KOS/COOL system. This feature allows you to add a person to KOS list and to get notified if this person attacked you or you mouseovered him on any character of his account.

Additionally the KOS list shows friends who are nearby.

As a separate feature KOS window shows people on your your COOL list. People added to this list (through context menu, keybind) are treated as friends throughout the addon. Think about a second friend list for cool people who didn't make it into you real friend list.

KOS window has 4 distinct modes. In 'All' mode both friends and KOS targets are shown. In "Allies" mode only friends/COOLs and KOS targets of the same faction as the player are shown. In "Enemies" mode the list will only have KOS targets who are not from the same faction as the player. And lastly in "Setup" mode you will see a scrollable list of all the players you added to the KOS list.

I won't bore you with more examples. But these addons claim to do pretty much exactly what I said they did.

And I didn't just mention addons either. I also talked about macros and specialized mouses that allow players to record scripted actions etc. There are just a lot of factors that can go into not just PvP - but the game play generally - that can give players advantages over others. This is nothing new has been a thing on PC MMORPGs for as long as I can remember. It was certainly a thing on WoW as well (a huge thing actually). I played with addons and macros on that game myself. Why? Because it was a huge advantage to do so and made me more effective in combat. So I don't know why you feel a need to try and deny their existence and pretend no one has advantages over others on this game due to these kinds of added programs and it's all just pure skill. It would be better to just admit it. It doesn't take away from your own abilities or skill to do so. It's simply an acceptance of the reality. And it's not just in combat. There are addons on this game that give players significant advantages in other areas of the game as well, such as using the guild traders or farming materials etc. I could really go on and on. But I won't because this post is long enough already.

This is the Miat's PvP Alerts addon and it no longer does any of those key features you mentioned. @Jeremy

This is why i think people should research and use what they're talking about before talking about it. You literally just posted an addon that hasn't worked for over two years as an example of an OP addon.

EDIT:

BTW @SHOW You might be my new favorite forum poster. You managed to appeal to both sides in a way that makes each of them appreciate you. 10/10, would like again.

Right now the tradeoff is between DMG/Healing, tankiness, and resource recovery. People with high dmg/healing tend to have low tankiness and low resource recovery. The better you get as a player, the more you can use tap-blocks and strategic rolls, as well as heavy attacks to make up for tankiness and resource recovery from sets...

My main point is that in order to run insanely high dmg/healing setups, you have to be askilled player because the sustain and the tankiness aren't coming from sets, they're coming from knowing what to do and when to do it to get the resources and tankiness.

Also i'm in essence thief, not fury, but i do put on fury from time to time hehe.

Well the website said it still functioned...at least all of the "Key Features"

So you are saying there are no addons any longer that alert players to incoming moves in PvP? That there are no addons that assist players with blocking or doding? There are no adds that give players added information they wouldn't normally have?

I find that really hard to believe.

And you completely ignored the rest of my post which talks about macros or special hardware that records scripted actions etc.

You can continue to push this theory of yours that everyone is on exactly same footing when it comes to MMO gameplay on PCs and it's all skill based - and that they these added features bring no significant advantages to players (I guess they all just download them for no apparent reason). But I don't think it's a serious argument. Any honest person who is familiar with the advantages these kind of addons, macros, and hardware additions bring to your gameplay understand these are real advantages that give you an edge. And that's exactly why people use them.

What about 1vX on console?