Auction Houses: yes or no?

x48rph · April 2020

Keep everything as it is

Sorry but not trying to see a major overhaul of a key system in ESO. While not perfect, guilds work fine and so no need for devs to start messing around with this. Too many other problems and better use for their time.

PizzaCat82 · April 2020

A few auction houses, like one in each capital

That would be lame an boring for us Trade Guild people. We like the competition and the pressure. The guilds have worked hard for their place in the hierarchy over the years. If you just get rid of the heirarch and add a global Auction House you effectively kill every thing fun about the current system and ruin everything the trade guilds have built.

I realize that trading is the game for some of you and "beating the other guilds" is something you've worked very hard for but I'd rather the game cater to the new guy who's just trying to get some money rather than your ego.

Nanfoodle · April 2020

One Auction House to rule them all

Its clear about 45% want to see things change. Current system is broken by design.

kyle.wilson · April 2020

Keep everything as it is

Nanfoodle wrote: »

Its clear about 45% want to see things change. Current system is broken by design.

Sometimes people don't know what's best for them.
People vote for politicians that actively pursue policy that will negatively impact them, just because they talk all nice like.

wenchmore420b14_ESO · April 2020

Add more guild stores per city

Nanfoodle wrote: »

Its clear about 45% want to see things change. Current system is broken by design.

My math says 31%. But the vote breaker is ZoS and they have said no.
If any one searches other polls on this subject, you will find they all side with..... nope.

kyle.wilson · April 2020

Keep everything as it is

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Nanfoodle wrote: »

Its clear about 45% want to see things change. Current system is broken by design.

My math says 31%. But the vote breaker is ZoS and they have said no.
If any one searches other polls on this subject, you will find they all side with..... nope.

51% were a hard no. 9% say add more guild stores and 3% so keep it the same and outlaw TTC. So as I see it at least 63% prefer Guild trader over Auction house.

I must've missed the day in statistics where "45%" (really only 31% is clearly for AH, 4% is other) is > 63%

starkerealm · April 2020

Keep everything as it is

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

You can't corner the market without controlling the supply. There's nothing in this game that requires a huge investment, except for a guild trader.

You can flip 90% of the the market but the suppliers will still price lower than you're selling. Because they can simply get more of 99% of things that can be sold on the market. Someone buying all the MS staffs? Go farm some. Temps? Gold Mats? Craft some more writs and undercut them.

What people dont want is undercutting everyone. But that happens regardless. And flippers fix that.

The trading game doesn't have to be Toughneck McDifficult to be good, it just needs to facilitate getting what people want into the hands of people who want it with the least amount of effort. That is always going to be the best trading system.

Yeah sure, guys, if someone buys up all the mats, just go farm some. Was not wanting to farm them the reason you were trying buy them in the first place? Disregard that completely.

When IC launched I was part of a small group that cornered the market on Hakeijo and jacked the price up. You just have to be able to find time cost/gold cost.
If we wanted we could easily corner the market on Gold Plating and Aetherial Dust, or at least affect the supply enough to re-set the price way higher. People will follow the trend up.

On PCNA, right now, there's about 1000 units of publicly listed Aetherial Dust. The price to buy every publicly traded dust would set you back about 130 million. At that point, if you tried to jack the prices up, there's more in circulation that aren't currently listed. Even if your goal was to move the average to 150k per unit (which means you would lose money on at least some of those listings), you'd still end up taking a bath, as the listing fees alone would eat your profits alive. Want to list them all for 200k a piece? Wouldn't fly, because there are too many people who'd undercut you. You could spike the price for awhile, but keeping it up? You'd get embroiled in an endless price war, and you'd lose your shirt. Even just trying to trim off the ones who were under cutting you by a moderate margin. Of course anyone undercutting you by a small margin wouldn't be worth removing, and the price would gradually trend back to where it belongs.

So you'd spend 130m to make massive profits, but instead you'd lose your shirt.

Chromium is even more hilarious, because you'd spend 228.3m to buy up the platings, then realize there's still a whopping 240 platings on the market you didn't buy because you forgot it also exists as grains. So that's another 21.7m, which at this point is small potatoes. Except, now it turns out that people get grains from their jewelry writs, and even if you try to force the price up, the grain price will quickly drop back down, because they're far too common to manage.

Then, the unimaginable happens. After you jacked the prices, people like me wander by, start a fire sales, and walk off with a nice wad of cash, while you're trying to figure out why the money isn't rolling in at the higher prices.

You'd spend almost 400m gold, and walk away with a fraction of what you put into the project.

wenchmore420b14_ESO · April 2020

Add more guild stores per city

starkerealm wrote: »

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

You can't corner the market without controlling the supply. There's nothing in this game that requires a huge investment, except for a guild trader.

You can flip 90% of the the market but the suppliers will still price lower than you're selling. Because they can simply get more of 99% of things that can be sold on the market. Someone buying all the MS staffs? Go farm some. Temps? Gold Mats? Craft some more writs and undercut them.

What people dont want is undercutting everyone. But that happens regardless. And flippers fix that.

The trading game doesn't have to be Toughneck McDifficult to be good, it just needs to facilitate getting what people want into the hands of people who want it with the least amount of effort. That is always going to be the best trading system.

Yeah sure, guys, if someone buys up all the mats, just go farm some. Was not wanting to farm them the reason you were trying buy them in the first place? Disregard that completely.

When IC launched I was part of a small group that cornered the market on Hakeijo and jacked the price up. You just have to be able to find time cost/gold cost.
If we wanted we could easily corner the market on Gold Plating and Aetherial Dust, or at least affect the supply enough to re-set the price way higher. People will follow the trend up.

On PCNA, right now, there's about 1000 units of publicly listed Aetherial Dust. The price to buy every publicly traded dust would set you back about 130 million. At that point, if you tried to jack the prices up, there's more in circulation that aren't currently listed. Even if your goal was to move the average to 150k per unit (which means you would lose money on at least some of those listings), you'd still end up taking a bath, as the listing fees alone would eat your profits alive. Want to list them all for 200k a piece? Wouldn't fly, because there are too many people who'd undercut you. You could spike the price for awhile, but keeping it up? You'd get embroiled in an endless price war, and you'd lose your shirt. Even just trying to trim off the ones who were under cutting you by a moderate margin. Of course anyone undercutting you by a small margin wouldn't be worth removing, and the price would gradually trend back to where it belongs.

So you'd spend 130m to make massive profits, but instead you'd lose your shirt.

Chromium is even more hilarious, because you'd spend 228.3m to buy up the platings, then realize there's still a whopping 240 platings on the market you didn't buy because you forgot it also exists as grains. So that's another 21.7m, which at this point is small potatoes. Except, now it turns out that people get grains from their jewelry writs, and even if you try to force the price up, the grain price will quickly drop back down, because they're far too common to manage.

Then, the unimaginable happens. After you jacked the prices, people like me wander by, start a fire sales, and walk off with a nice wad of cash, while you're trying to figure out why the money isn't rolling in at the higher prices.

You'd spend almost 400m gold, and walk away with a fraction of what you put into the project.

And if I may add to this, that person who dropped 400m gold now has all these items and only 5 guilds to sell them out of.

I have tried to explain before how impossible it is to corner the market in ESO, but with a AH it would be quite possible.

Eedat · April 2020

Keep everything as it is

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

That would be lame an boring for us Trade Guild people. We like the competition and the pressure. The guilds have worked hard for their place in the hierarchy over the years. If you just get rid of the heirarch and add a global Auction House you effectively kill every thing fun about the current system and ruin everything the trade guilds have built.

I realize that trading is the game for some of you and "beating the other guilds" is something you've worked very hard for but I'd rather the game cater to the new guy who's just trying to get some money rather than your ego.

Why should it cater to someone who has put zero effort or time in? It takes minimal effort to get into a good guild in a medium spot with little to no minimums. What you want is a system to cater to the extremely lazy. We dont want another WoW. That's why we play ESO and not WoW.

kyle.wilson · April 2020

Keep everything as it is

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

You can't corner the market without controlling the supply. There's nothing in this game that requires a huge investment, except for a guild trader.

You can flip 90% of the the market but the suppliers will still price lower than you're selling. Because they can simply get more of 99% of things that can be sold on the market. Someone buying all the MS staffs? Go farm some. Temps? Gold Mats? Craft some more writs and undercut them.

What people dont want is undercutting everyone. But that happens regardless. And flippers fix that.

The trading game doesn't have to be Toughneck McDifficult to be good, it just needs to facilitate getting what people want into the hands of people who want it with the least amount of effort. That is always going to be the best trading system.

Yeah sure, guys, if someone buys up all the mats, just go farm some. Was not wanting to farm them the reason you were trying buy them in the first place? Disregard that completely.

When IC launched I was part of a small group that cornered the market on Hakeijo and jacked the price up. You just have to be able to find time cost/gold cost.
If we wanted we could easily corner the market on Gold Plating and Aetherial Dust, or at least affect the supply enough to re-set the price way higher. People will follow the trend up.

On PCNA, right now, there's about 1000 units of publicly listed Aetherial Dust. The price to buy every publicly traded dust would set you back about 130 million. At that point, if you tried to jack the prices up, there's more in circulation that aren't currently listed. Even if your goal was to move the average to 150k per unit (which means you would lose money on at least some of those listings), you'd still end up taking a bath, as the listing fees alone would eat your profits alive. Want to list them all for 200k a piece? Wouldn't fly, because there are too many people who'd undercut you. You could spike the price for awhile, but keeping it up? You'd get embroiled in an endless price war, and you'd lose your shirt. Even just trying to trim off the ones who were under cutting you by a moderate margin. Of course anyone undercutting you by a small margin wouldn't be worth removing, and the price would gradually trend back to where it belongs.

So you'd spend 130m to make massive profits, but instead you'd lose your shirt.

Chromium is even more hilarious, because you'd spend 228.3m to buy up the platings, then realize there's still a whopping 240 platings on the market you didn't buy because you forgot it also exists as grains. So that's another 21.7m, which at this point is small potatoes. Except, now it turns out that people get grains from their jewelry writs, and even if you try to force the price up, the grain price will quickly drop back down, because they're far too common to manage.

Then, the unimaginable happens. After you jacked the prices, people like me wander by, start a fire sales, and walk off with a nice wad of cash, while you're trying to figure out why the money isn't rolling in at the higher prices.

You'd spend almost 400m gold, and walk away with a fraction of what you put into the project.

And if I may add to this, that person who dropped 400m gold now has all these items and only 5 guilds to sell them out of.

I have tried to explain before how impossible it is to corner the market in ESO, but with a AH it would be quite possible.

You don't have to buy them all, you just have to continuously buy the lowest 10% and cycle them up.

Krileon · April 2020

One Auction House to rule them all

I'm absolutely for an auction house, but we don't necessarily need an auction house as for example a built in TTC would be nice. Just let me at least search every trader at once and when I find something I want it puts a map marker of where they are. This having to run to 100 different traders nonsense takes far longer than it really should. I am completely confused why so many of you are happy to waste 2+ hours of your day running to trader after trader.. do you value your time so little? I think built in TTC would be a fair compromise.

wenchmore420b14_ESO · April 2020

Add more guild stores per city

kyle.wilson wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

You can't corner the market without controlling the supply. There's nothing in this game that requires a huge investment, except for a guild trader.

You can flip 90% of the the market but the suppliers will still price lower than you're selling. Because they can simply get more of 99% of things that can be sold on the market. Someone buying all the MS staffs? Go farm some. Temps? Gold Mats? Craft some more writs and undercut them.

What people dont want is undercutting everyone. But that happens regardless. And flippers fix that.

The trading game doesn't have to be Toughneck McDifficult to be good, it just needs to facilitate getting what people want into the hands of people who want it with the least amount of effort. That is always going to be the best trading system.

Yeah sure, guys, if someone buys up all the mats, just go farm some. Was not wanting to farm them the reason you were trying buy them in the first place? Disregard that completely.

When IC launched I was part of a small group that cornered the market on Hakeijo and jacked the price up. You just have to be able to find time cost/gold cost.
If we wanted we could easily corner the market on Gold Plating and Aetherial Dust, or at least affect the supply enough to re-set the price way higher. People will follow the trend up.

On PCNA, right now, there's about 1000 units of publicly listed Aetherial Dust. The price to buy every publicly traded dust would set you back about 130 million. At that point, if you tried to jack the prices up, there's more in circulation that aren't currently listed. Even if your goal was to move the average to 150k per unit (which means you would lose money on at least some of those listings), you'd still end up taking a bath, as the listing fees alone would eat your profits alive. Want to list them all for 200k a piece? Wouldn't fly, because there are too many people who'd undercut you. You could spike the price for awhile, but keeping it up? You'd get embroiled in an endless price war, and you'd lose your shirt. Even just trying to trim off the ones who were under cutting you by a moderate margin. Of course anyone undercutting you by a small margin wouldn't be worth removing, and the price would gradually trend back to where it belongs.

So you'd spend 130m to make massive profits, but instead you'd lose your shirt.

Chromium is even more hilarious, because you'd spend 228.3m to buy up the platings, then realize there's still a whopping 240 platings on the market you didn't buy because you forgot it also exists as grains. So that's another 21.7m, which at this point is small potatoes. Except, now it turns out that people get grains from their jewelry writs, and even if you try to force the price up, the grain price will quickly drop back down, because they're far too common to manage.

Then, the unimaginable happens. After you jacked the prices, people like me wander by, start a fire sales, and walk off with a nice wad of cash, while you're trying to figure out why the money isn't rolling in at the higher prices.

You'd spend almost 400m gold, and walk away with a fraction of what you put into the project.

And if I may add to this, that person who dropped 400m gold now has all these items and only 5 guilds to sell them out of.

I have tried to explain before how impossible it is to corner the market in ESO, but with a AH it would be quite possible.

You don't have to buy them all, you just have to continuously buy the lowest 10% and cycle them up.

Which entails traveling to 200+ kiosks to buy them. Also, not very probable. And that only manipulates prices, not cornering market. This still better system than AH imo...

PizzaCat82 · April 2020

A few auction houses, like one in each capital

Eedat wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

That would be lame an boring for us Trade Guild people. We like the competition and the pressure. The guilds have worked hard for their place in the hierarchy over the years. If you just get rid of the heirarch and add a global Auction House you effectively kill every thing fun about the current system and ruin everything the trade guilds have built.

I realize that trading is the game for some of you and "beating the other guilds" is something you've worked very hard for but I'd rather the game cater to the new guy who's just trying to get some money rather than your ego.

Why should it cater to someone who has put zero effort or time in? It takes minimal effort to get into a good guild in a medium spot with little to no minimums. What you want is a system to cater to the extremely lazy. We dont want another WoW. That's why we play ESO and not WoW.

Because its not end game, its beginning game, and everyone deserves to sell their stuff and make money.

ESO has never been a grindy hardcore MMO, so I don't know why you think making the trading aspect accessible would somehow ruin it or make it too easy. Changing something you are used to will not make the game "WOW" no matter how much you accuse us of trying.

And as far as cornering the market, people have enough banks full of mats sitting around that anyone trying would just be giving their money away. I sell small amounts of my stock because I don't want to wait for someone to buy a stack of dust, roe, or other gold mats.

If anything the prices would go down as there will be more sellers. Thats what yall are really afraid of.

Sylvermynx · April 2020

One Auction House to rule them all

Y'all are missing the entire bottom line. The trader setup in this game is the fair-haired children of ZOS. ZOS is not going to change anything with this - because if they did, there would be a mass exodus of all those guilds.... and all their gold and IRL money.

Not sure where they'd go (and considering that I'd far prefer a global option, I guess I don't care), but ZOS would absolutely lose a LOT of money RL and in game. ZOS has bought into this "oh our option is SO much better", and now it's a matter of "stick with it or lose face".

kyle.wilson · April 2020

Keep everything as it is

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Which entails traveling to 200+ kiosks to buy them. Also, not very probable. And that only manipulates prices, not cornering market. This still better system than AH imo...

When Hakeijo first came out we split up and did just that. It resulted in doubling the price over a week, and it stayed high for months.
I think Auction Houses are for the lazy. The current system is very dynamic and a small amount of effort can be very rewarding.

If it was a global system, it would be far easier to manipulate prices. All those people that think they would be able to drop the price by dumping, don't realize that the item would be bought by the people manipulating the price. Eventually the excess would be in the hands of the manipulators.

The reason there is an excess of these mats rn is that the anniversary celebration dropped platings and aetherial dust a substantially increased drop rate. It will come back down.

PizzaCat82 · April 2020

A few auction houses, like one in each capital

If it was a global system, it would be far easier to manipulate prices. All those people that think they would be able to drop the price by dumping, don't realize that the item would be bought by the people manipulating the price. Eventually the excess would be in the hands of the manipulators.

Its easy to manipulate prices, much easier when all you have to worry about is 7 or 8 traders in a single city. And you know what? People undercut all the time. Sure, go ahead and buy all the mats. I'm sure the listing fees on them wont hurt you, or the item limits wont stop you from relisting.

starkerealm · April 2020

Keep everything as it is

kyle.wilson wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Which entails traveling to 200+ kiosks to buy them. Also, not very probable. And that only manipulates prices, not cornering market. This still better system than AH imo...

When Hakeijo first came out we split up and did just that.

Except there were less than 150 back then, as I recall. That alone would have made things considerably easier. Now you'd need to double the manpower to achieve the same feat, and you'd need an item that was simultaneously in high demand, easy but also time consuming to obtain.

The closest thing we've seen since then are the Triune and Bloodthirsty research jewelry. Even then, the demand was not as immediate or overwhelming.

wenchmore420b14_ESO · April 2020

Add more guild stores per city

starkerealm wrote: »

kyle.wilson wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Which entails traveling to 200+ kiosks to buy them. Also, not very probable. And that only manipulates prices, not cornering market. This still better system than AH imo...

When Hakeijo first came out we split up and did just that.

Except there were less than 150 back then, as I recall. That alone would have made things considerably easier. Now you'd need to double the manpower to achieve the same feat, and you'd need an item that was simultaneously in high demand, easy but also time consuming to obtain.

The closest thing we've seen since then are the Triune and Bloodthirsty research jewelry. Even then, the demand was not as immediate or overwhelming.

Probably less than that. Hakeijo came out with IC DLC in 2015 and was only the 2nd new content to ESO behind Craglorn, so it was just base game and Craglorn as far as kiosks go.

Eifleber · April 2020

A few auction houses, like one in each capital

I am not against guild traders.

If there were a way to have a real time overview of everything that's for sale and where I would be perfectly fine with what we have.

But there isn' t.

-- Your arguments:
"But it's a gold sink": meh. Just add a 10% tax on Auction Houses and a lot more gold will be removed from the game.
"But it's always been this way": that is no argument. If it were up to you, we would still live in caves and hunt animals with stone clubs.
"We don't want another WoW": Guild traders aren't the discerning difference. ESO with AH would still be ESO and WoW with guild traders would still be WoW.

Rave the Histborn · April 2020

Keep everything as it is

Eifleber wrote: »

I am not against guild traders.

If there were a way to have a real time overview of everything that's for sale and where I would be perfectly fine with what we have.

But there isn' t.

-- Your arguments:
"But it's a gold sink": meh. Just add a 10% tax on Auction Houses and a lot more gold will be removed from the game.
"But it's always been this way": that is no argument. If it were up to you, we would still live in caves and hunt animals with stone clubs.
"We don't want another WoW": Guild traders aren't the discerning difference. ESO with AH would still be ESO and WoW with guild traders would still be WoW.

A 10% gold tax doesn't account for what the guild trader system takes out from the economy. Are you going to use the same AH system when the tax is 35%-45% to account for the same gold sink?

"But it's always been this way" is the argument for the AH house system. Every MMO aside from this one has an AH and by your logic we'd still be using caves, you'd just call them something new. The o ly thing worse than no progress is reverse progress and we'd be going into reverse at light speed.

This game would turn into WoW as the guild trader system is also heavily tied into base functions of guilds and thus the base of ESO. If you remove the guild trader system you just turn the game into every other MMO out there.

Eifleber · April 2020

A few auction houses, like one in each capital

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

"But it's always been this way" is the argument for the AH house system. Every MMO aside from this one has an AH and by your logic we'd still be using caves, you'd just call them something new. The o ly thing worse than no progress is reverse progress and we'd be going into reverse at light speed.

You are putting words in my mouth.
- In EVE you have seperate shops on every planet. Every person can sell stuff on every planet in the galaxy. Of which there are tens of thousands. But at least you have a real time overview of everything in the vicinity, be it in safe zones or lowsec (PvP area).
- Guild Wars 1 had nothing to cater buying/selling at all. You just went screaming in local chat in Lion's Arch (big city).
- WoW has 3 unconnected auction houses
- Guild Wars 2 is the only one I played that has what you call a global AH

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

This game would turn into WoW as the guild trader system is also heavily tied into base functions of guilds and thus the base of ESO. If you remove the guild trader system you just turn the game into every other MMO out there.

That's true for you perhaps but for most players trading is a very small or non-existent part of the game if you look at the amount of time spend on it in-game. I think I speak for many people if I say that I don't play MMO's for trading but for adventuring and teamplay. Buying/finding stuff shouldn't be a time consuming drag for those not interested in trade.

I think ESO missed a great RPG opportunity here. Realistically you would expect stores for food, stalls for clothing and such and not 1000 stores that all sell everything like mini wallmarts. Specialized furniture would only be sold by carpenters in bigger outposts and cities. What I also miss is ways for players to advertise their crafts so you can order stuff, like price lists and next day it's delivered or something. And so on. Also: why exactly 1 of each in each village, why not have 3 stables in Wayrest or 2 banks in Alinor?!

The ESO system is rather clumsy, limited and very user-unfriendly and 100% dependent on 3rd party inventions (TTC) to keep it functioning at all. Which is really, really very bad imo.
.

Rave the Histborn · April 2020

Keep everything as it is

Eifleber wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

"But it's always been this way" is the argument for the AH house system. Every MMO aside from this one has an AH and by your logic we'd still be using caves, you'd just call them something new. The o ly thing worse than no progress is reverse progress and we'd be going into reverse at light speed.

You are putting words in my mouth.
- In EVE you have seperate shops on every planet. Of which there are tens of thousands. But you have a real time overview of everything in the vicinity, be it in safe zones or lowsec (PvP area).
- Guild Wars 1 had nothing to cater buying/selling at all. You just went screaming in local chat in Lion's Arch (big city).
- WoW has 3 unconnected auction houses
- Guild Wars 2 is the only one I played that has what you call a global AH

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

This game would turn into WoW as the guild trader system is also heavily tied into base functions of guilds and thus the base of ESO. If you remove the guild trader system you just turn the game into every other MMO out there.

That's true for you perhaps but for most players trading is a very small or non-existent part of the game if you look at the amount of time spend on it in-game. I think I speak for many people if I say that I don't play MMO's for trading but for adventuring and teamplay.

I think ESO missed a great RPG opportunity here. Realistically you would expect stores for food, stalls for clothing and such and not 1000 stores that all sell everything like mini wallmarts. Specialized furniture would only be sold by carpenters in bigger outposts and cities. And so on. Also: why exactly 1 of each in each village, why not have 3 stables in Wayrest or 2 banks in Summerset?!

The ESO system is rather clumsy and 100% dependent on 3rd party inventions (TTC) to keep it functioning at all.
Which is really, really very bad imo.
.

There's add on for a real time overview because it's a luxury not a necessity.

Wow has 3 auction houses, so connected or not they have a centralized auction system. I've played WoW, I've gamed the system, it's much easier in the system you're advocating for and it will hurt people more than help.

I understand that most people don't get into MMOs to be trading all the time, however if you stopped speaking for the playerbaee and took a second to learn the base mechanics of the game you'd realize people join for the social aspect of it. The playerbase isn't going to like it when 100s of trade guilds shutter and all you're left with are social guilds and trails guilds.

Eifleber · April 2020

A few auction houses, like one in each capital

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

There's add on for a real time overview because it's a luxury not a necessity.

So .. what do you me expect me to do when I want to buy that particular Hlaalu style chair?
Travel across all provinces and all traders to see if they have one for sale?
You really think that's what players want, generally? You think they find it fun, an improvement over what other MMO's have to offer? Honestly?

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

I understand that most people don't get into MMOs to be trading all the time, however if you stopped speaking for the playerbase and took a second to learn the base mechanics of the game you'd realize people join for the social aspect of it. The playerbase isn't going to like it when 100s of trade guilds shutter and all you're left with are social guilds and trails guilds.

Really how would the game stop being social without trading guilds?
There's no MMO with trading guilds like ESO, still they are just as social as ESO.
If you take away baseball from the world people will still do sports.

Rave the Histborn · April 2020

Keep everything as it is

Eifleber wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

There's add on for a real time overview because it's a luxury not a necessity.

So .. what do you me expect me to do when I want to buy that particular Hlaalu style chair?
Travel across all provinces and all traders to see if they have one for sale?
You really think that's what players want, generally? You think they find it fun?

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

I understand that most people don't get into MMOs to be trading all the time, however if you stopped speaking for the playerbase and took a second to learn the base mechanics of the game you'd realize people join for the social aspect of it. The playerbase isn't going to like it when 100s of trade guilds shutter and all you're left with are social guilds and trails guilds.

Honestly how would the game stop being social without trading guilds?
There's no MMO with trading guilds as ESO, still they are just as social as ESO.
If you take away baseball from the world people will still do sports.

So .. what do you me expect me to do when I want to buy that particular Hlaalu style chair?
Travel across all provinces and all traders to see if they have one for sale?
You really think that's what players want, generally? You think they find it fun?

Oh man, you might have to *gasp* zone to buy an item? It's not like the quest chains in overland already send you all over Tamriel and require you to do things like that already! How will people survive???

Do you think they're having fun when they go to an auction house and find that that hlaalu price is triple the average price because there's only 3 copies in the game and 1 person decided to buy them all and game the price? Do you think players are going to be thinking "Man, this sure is fun, paying all these significantly higher prices for items so I don't have to change a zone."

Honestly how would the game stop being social without trading guilds?
There's no MMO with trading guilds as ESO, still they are just as social as ESO.
If you take away baseball from the world people will still do sports.

[snip]

The way some guilds are set up is around trading

If you take the trading aspect away from the trading guilds you cause them to disband as there is no need for them

Thus would negatively effect tens of thousands of people

Negatively effecting tens of thousands of people because you can't change zones to buy an item is bad

OK, maybe that's easier for you. I'm not saying that it won't be social. I'm saying the way it will be social will be impacted.

P.S. You're not taking baseball away from the world, you're telling the MLB to dissolve their teams and let everyone that wants to play pro ball sign a pro contract.

Eifleber · April 2020

A few auction houses, like one in each capital

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Oh man, you might have to *gasp* zone to buy an item? It's not like the quest chains in overland already send you all over Tamriel and require you to do things like that already! How will people survive???

We are here talking about the situation without TTC. So I am not talking about zoning once, I am talking about looking if anything is available at all. The only way to do that is traveling to every province and every guild stall to find it. If no one sells it (which is often the case) I spent hours for nothing. You may cal it fun (and an overview like TTC an unnecessary luxury), I do not. And I think most people don't.

Do you think they're having fun when they go to an auction house and find that that hlaalu price is triple the average price because there's only 3 copies in the game and 1 person decided to buy them all and game the price? Do you think players are going to be thinking "Man, this sure is fun, paying all these significantly higher prices for items so I don't have to change a zone."

[snip]

three things:
1) I'd rather pay triple and have the thing than traveling around for hours maybe only to find out it's not for sale at all
2) that's why I said that crafters should be able to advertise their crafts so you can order stuff. It's sort of counter intuitive that the only way for craftsmen to sell stuff in an organized way is to make stuff and hope people want it. Instead of getting orders and craft for people.
3) with TTC exactly what you are saying is happening, people buying all the Columbine and such and reselling for double.
I don' t see guild stalls preventing this (so your argument is rather flawed).

I am furnishing my new house at the moment, I can wait a few days for my order to be delivered, I don't need the stuff immediately. Personally I'm not really an RP person but in a semi-medieval fantasy world you'd expect (shops with) crafters that can make you stuff if you order it.
Just as you'd expect specialized shops for armor or food or materials. Or multiple banks and cooks and taverns in a city. Not exactly 1 each and 6 mini wallmarts per town. That's not really immersive.

You're not taking baseball away from the world, you're telling the MLB to dissolve their teams and let everyone that wants to play pro ball sign a pro contract.

I live in Europe, if baseball disappears, hardly anyone will notice (or care).
Let's say I am not convinced traders are a very significant part of the playerbase nor that they would leave if the system is altered. And other trading systems offer other opportunities, like in EVE where whole guilds are dedicated cargo haulers.

[edited for bait]
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Mettaricana · April 2020

One Auction House to rule them all

Walking through most towns i seen soo much room for more traders mournhold wayrest and elden could have easily added 12-20 more traders per location would ease up this trader and guild fee gouging lately

Tandor · April 2020

One Auction House to rule them all

TineaCruris wrote: »

No to the auction house. ESO has done vending in a really cool way, but it is in desperate need of some tweaks. The vending locations cost WAY too much and the bidding process drives up expenses for everyone unnecessarily.

The problem with that argument is that the present scale of the gold sink is just about the only valid defence supporters of the present system can offer, so reducing it substantially would greatly weaken the case for the present system.

As I've said many times before, I would favour allowing all players to participate in selling, including non-guild members, casual players, and lower level players, by adding a single NPC trader to the main trader locations and through whom a small number of items can be listed. The commission level would be high and the revenue distributed between the guilds with traders in those locations.

I would help buyers by having a central listing of all items for sale and players could choose whether to travel to the relevant location and buy the item with no commission or have it mailed to them at a cost.

In order to ensure the trading system was consistent across the platforms and worked effectively for everyone, I would disable all trading add-ons which would no longer be required anyway due to the central listing.

Those changes would retain the guild-based parts of the present system that people like, including the gold sink, while opening it up to everyone with a uniform system across the platforms and with greater ease of purchase for those who hate having to tramp around the world to find the best buy for the item they want.

Moreover, the NPC trader could form part of an early quest that would introduce new players to the trading system, so that once they were looking to sell more than the handful of items allowed through the NPC trader they would know more about the guild aspects.

That would be my preferred solution to the present trading issues, but given a straight choice between the present system as existing and an auction house of the kind that has worked well in every other MMORPG I've played since 1998 I would opt for the latter.

daemonios · April 2020

One Auction House to rule them all

Eifleber wrote: »

3) with TTC exactly what you are saying is happening, people buying all the Columbine and such and reselling for double.
I don' t see guild stalls preventing this (so your argument is rather flawed).

I've made this point countless times before, but it's no use. Apparently, as long as it isn't just one person buying up some high demand item, it's not market cornering, it's item flipping, and it's the best thing since sliced bread.

rager82b14_ESO · April 2020

One Auction House to rule them all

I mean common sense says one auction house. The people who want it to stay the same, are the same people who think animation canceling is really good for the game.

It is bad game design to need to use something outside of the game, just to fully make use of a in game system.

Eifleber · April 2020

A few auction houses, like one in each capital

Tandor wrote: »

having a central listing of all items for sale and players could choose whether to travel to the relevant location and buy the item with no commission or have it mailed to them at a cost.

In order to ensure the trading system was consistent across the platforms and worked effectively for everyone, I would disable all trading add-ons which would no longer be required anyway due to the central listing.

That would be fantastic.