Auction Houses: yes or no?

kargen27 · April 2020

Other .. (explain)

daemonios wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

Zulera301 wrote: »

as much as I hate shopping and load screens (and I just blew 4m on housing, and another 2/5m on top of that completing my motif collection from post-jubilee), I dont want a global auction house by any means. tedious as the shopping may be, it's much harder to monopolize items with it.

This is patently false. Some items are cornered regularly, maybe not by 1 person, but still bought up and reposted at a premium. Rare motifs (DLC dungeon chests and legs for example), potent nirncrux, high-demand alchemy ingredients, all are picked up and reposted at a profit. There is NOTHING to prevent this other than the need to visit other guild stores. Travel in ESO is trivial, as opposed to other games where you can't simply port from one zone to the next. It's inconvenient and boring AF, especially when the game starts serving you long loading screens, but still trivial.

If market cornering is such a concern, then the focus should never be on guild store vs. auction house. The difference between them is negligible. To prevent market cornering you'd need high enough taxes to discourage reposting items, or an outright ban (temporary or permanent) on reposting store-bought items.

This is not "cornering the market". This is "taking opportunities".

Of course I'll buy and repost an item if it's on sale for a fraction of it's usual price. It's not that I corner the market, it's just that the initial seller made a mistake, or had no clues about the market.

If I buy a ferrari for the price of a lada, and then sell it back at a ferrari's price, I'm not cornering the ferrari's market.

How is an oligopoly different from a monopoly from the buyer's standpoint? You decried monopolies, yet if it's just players "taking opportunities" you suddenly embrace it? You're not even trying to argue any more.

[EDIT] Also, spare me the real world examples. This is a game. I happen to believe games don't have to emulate the real world, and are often better when they don't. The in-game economy should serve the game as a whole, not the players who choose to dedicate themselves to it.

Your entire premise is built around something that simply isn't true. Yes there have been attempts to corner a market by different groups of people. No those groups were not successful in cornering a market. They were able to influence price for a very short time as others saw the high price and adjusted their own prices up some to take advantage. Prices fall back into the norm very quick. There is a huge difference in trying to buy items from one location and trying to buy items in over 200 locations.

idk · April 2020

Keep everything as it is

@Eifleber

Wow, as of this post only 31% have voted for one of the two AH options with almost 300 people voting. Not surprising as previous polls that were much clearer due to design returned similar results.

I figure most that create such polls are thinking most agree with them and it must come as a disappointment they are wrong. Even with the poorly designed poll (OP admits it is a yes or no question then goes on to make the replies much more complicated than needed) and the comments OP made at the start to bias the poll with their opinion, this pretty much went the against them.

SeaGtGruff · April 2020

I haven't voted yet, because I'm on the fence.

I don't mind the current system of trading guilds and guild traders, so I don't think we need to scrap a working system.

But I think it could definitely stand some improvements.

TTC is just about the only thing that makes the current system remotely bearable as far as searching for specific items and shopping for the lowest prices, but TTC's database isn't up-to-date enough-- plus, it relies on players who've installed the TTC add-on. If something similar to TTC could be designed into the game, that would be awesome-- especially if the information in the database were always complete and always current.

And as for adding more guild traders, I wouldn't want to have to run around and interact with even more guild traders, because it's already tedious enough to run around and check on five or six of them. On the other hand, one idea that's been suggested before would be to let three or so trading guilds share a given guild trader. Maybe the guild with the winning bid would get to have their tabard on the trader, and would be listed first, but when you interact with the trader you'd also see options to look at the offerings of two additional guilds-- the ones with the second-highest and third-highest bids for that trader.

I don't know what the best solution is-- hence my reluctance go vote-- but the reason this issue keeps coming up is because the current system is such a hassle.

Wandering_Immigrant · April 2020

Keep everything as it is

I never understood why so many people have a problem with item flipping. The seller is getting the price they asked for, which they would've gotten regardless of the buyer's intent, and the buyer is making a small profit while maintaining the status-quo by relisting the item at it's true value. It's a win for both parties involved and no one loses anything.

It has little impact in the guild trader system since those deals are usually found on out of they way traders who's prices don't have a huge affect on the economy, and in a global market where prices tend to trend much more quickly it's actually very healthy for the economy since it prevents prevents prices from bottoming out.

barney2525 · April 2020

One Auction House to rule them all

Requring - not optional - Requiring players to join a Trading guild that Will charge some amount of gold per week just for the option of being able to sell anything is ridiculous.

Not being able to see All the available product that you are looking for and that is on sale is Ridiculous.

Wasting time running from zone to zone trying to find what you are looking for - instead of actually playing the game - is Ridiculous.

IMHO

Mix · April 2020

Keep everything as it is

Keep as it is. Why? Any massive change to the Guild Store system will result in a very upset economy. Even the smaller changes (like the multi-bidding) have had insane issues launching.

A Guild Store system is a part of ESO now and I never see it changing to a global AH or anything similar. You don't want to turn the economy of your game on its head. It would take months to settle again and you'd lose a lot of players in the fallout. We are used to this system, used to using it to shop and sell. Players have an idea of what stuff they can sell to fund their play style.

twinkles21 · April 2020

Ok I legit have a great idea that i release all ownership to zos. (Seriously, just use it) I'm hoping someone will see it, since I don't know how to tag people.

Here me out.
1 universal auction house as a button on the top bar with the other icons
Anyone can buy from the auction house regardless of where they are
Players must still be a member of a guild to sell
That guild must 'buy in' the rights (fixed weekly amount, you know, instead of the ever inflating trader costs) to sell on the auction house.

1. It's still a gold sink for zos
2. It takes some pressure off trade guilds
3. Still controls gold sellers
4. Players don't have to travel to the ends of Tamriel just to find 1 item

BackStabeth · April 2020

Eifleber wrote: »

When I started playing I was quite surprised that ESO didn't have any centralized buying and selling mechanic. Which I found rather strange since I don't see the added value: ESO has instant travel - unlike EVE where local markets and transport are quite a thing. I just hate to waste hours of my life traveling around to find something that may not even be available on the whole server at all, like rare furniture. Often the guild trader doesn' t even exist in the place TTC mentions.

How would trading be if it were up to you?

It would be far better for us, the players who sell items and play the market. But it wouldn't be good for ESO, and not good for guilds. I belong to three guilds just for trading, I wouldn't if I were not trading.

The other thing is that guilds bid for vendors, they bid a lot of gold for vendors which creates a need for people to play the game to get gold, which allows for group content in part, to be engaged in and for some guilds the purchase of crowns to trade items for in game gold.

An auction house would cripple not only guilds, group play, the requirement to sell crowns for gold to pay for vendor bidding, but ZoS would lose money so it will never happen.

GarnetFire17 · April 2020

Keep everything as it is

And all the people that put in years of their life to build up their trade guild and love and built great relationships with people through the process? Are you going to say that is not value? I would say the Guild Trader system works. Billions of gold is traded each week. It's been five years and running. The only ones who complain are the ones too lazy to have to put some effort into shopping around for things they are too lazy to farm for themselves. I count it as a GOOD thing that those people don't get their way.

Rave the Histborn · April 2020

Keep everything as it is

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

I've had good guilds and I've had bad ones. I've seen guilds get destroyed by other guilds for not following along with coordinating trader spots.

AHs would not kill guilds. You don't even need to get rid of regular Guild traders. Just provide an alternative.

No one's cornering the market. Flipping might be easier but that's really PC player's fault for allowing add-ons to play the game for them.

It would kill how most guilds function as the trader system is central how guilds function and there's no reason to add in an AH system along side the guild system.

It would very easily allow people to corner the markets, especially lower pop places like consoles. It would be a disaster for the game in order to appease 1% of the base that wants the game to be WoW.

PizzaCat82 · April 2020

A few auction houses, like one in each capital

You don't need a Guild Trader to have a trader guild.

GarnetFire17 · April 2020

Keep everything as it is

twinkles21 wrote: »

Ok I legit have a great idea that i release all ownership to zos. (Seriously, just use it) I'm hoping someone will see it, since I don't know how to tag people.

Here me out.
1 universal auction house as a button on the top bar with the other icons
Anyone can buy from the auction house regardless of where they are
Players must still be a member of a guild to sell
That guild must 'buy in' the rights (fixed weekly amount, you know, instead of the ever inflating trader costs) to sell on the auction house.

1. It's still a gold sink for zos
2. It takes some pressure off trade guilds
3. Still controls gold sellers
4. Players don't have to travel to the ends of Tamriel just to find 1 item

That would be lame an boring for us Trade Guild people. We like the competition and the pressure. The guilds have worked hard for their place in the hierarchy over the years. If you just get rid of the heirarch and add a global Auction House you effectively kill every thing fun about the current system and ruin everything the trade guilds have built.

YoYoMan · April 2020

Keep everything as it is

It seems to be auction houses are much easier to manipulate than scattered guild stores. One person with a lot of cash can watch things closely in a single auction house system and price enforce to ensure that the prices stay high. Although I get some people don't like searching around for the best deal, it's the many disparate options that help keep prices down. Speaking of keeping prices down, the guild system drains a lot of money out of the economy. Millions and millions of gold moves from the sellers out of the market every week through the guild store bidding system. If all the sellers had to worry about was listing fees, they'd have even more money to enforce pricing. All of the rest of us would end up paying dearly for a little convenience, I am afraid.

kaisernick · April 2020

Keep everything as it is

Hell no
such a system creates it so players are always in the same area, sure that still somewhat happens now but no where near the level of wow as you have to travel the world to get what you want.

IMO players are just being lazy when asking for this, i didnt like it at first untill i actually made a effort to find a nice guild and learn how it works and now i make a nice income and i have made friends to.

Hell id go so far as to say this system is one the better ones.

PizzaCat82 · April 2020

A few auction houses, like one in each capital

You can't corner the market without controlling the supply. There's nothing in this game that requires a huge investment, except for a guild trader.

You can flip 90% of the the market but the suppliers will still price lower than you're selling. Because they can simply get more of 99% of things that can be sold on the market. Someone buying all the MS staffs? Go farm some. Temps? Gold Mats? Craft some more writs and undercut them.

What people dont want is undercutting everyone. But that happens regardless. And flippers fix that.

The trading game doesn't have to be Toughneck McDifficult to be good, it just needs to facilitate getting what people want into the hands of people who want it with the least amount of effort. That is always going to be the best trading system.

GarnetFire17 · April 2020

Keep everything as it is

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

You don't need a Guild Trader to have a trader guild.

There would be no point to it. It would suck. You'd take away the common goal and the sense of competition against other trade guilds for the better locations. The sense of progress as your guild works up to the position you are happy with it being in. ZOS intentionally put in a pvp aspect to the economy. That is what makes it a good and interesting system. So yes, it needs the guild traders.

Eedat · April 2020

Keep everything as it is

That's gonna be a big old HELL NO from me. I absolutely love this system. Central market house is a trash design for lazy people. I love running around finding deals and making margins. Besides, you would absolutely destroy all the established trading guilds that have put in years of effort to get where they are.

GarnetFire17 · April 2020

Keep everything as it is

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

... it just needs to facilitate getting what people want into the hands of people who want it with the least amount of effort. That is always going to be the best trading system.

I strongly disagree with this. This an mmo. When it comes to getting gear and other items especially the rarer ones, it's supposed to take a bit of effort and investment. This is why it took me over a year to max out crafting. If you think getting what you want should be facilitated and streamlined for your convenience I don't think MMOs are for you.

lurkin777 · April 2020

One Auction House to rule them all

The current system sucks as does the interface to find items. If time is money and the difference between fun and wasted time the current system is way expensive to buy items.

JKorr · April 2020

Keep everything as it is

Artanisul wrote: »

The people claiming that the system isnt in a strangle hold must be part of said strangle hold...

It's been outted a few times on you tube. It's been proven when the one guy bought Rawl'kala. The market is controlled by the few that banded together and bought the markets. This couldnt happen if we could all sell. We cant all sell unless we play homeless hawker on the streets or we join the corrupt system. If people could see all the prices, people could get what they need/want much easier.

It doesnt have to be a WoW clone to do the right thing.

You mean the guy who bought Rawlkha and lied about what the cost for the traders were? One guildmaster got fed up with the bs, and posted their LOSING bid. How was it "proven" when a LOSING bid for a vender in Rawlkha was 22,568,941 gold.
How much did Mr. Conspiracy claim he paid for the traders? Wasn't it something like only 7 million each? Let's see....twenty two million five hundred sixty eight thousand nine hundred forty one is just a teensy weensy bit over seven million....
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6072752/#Comment_6072752

So believe the "revolutionary stick it to da MAN" liars, or go by personal experience and evidence?

kyle.wilson · April 2020

Keep everything as it is

The current system is probably the most stabilizing effect on the in game economy.
An auction house without the gold sinks that guild stores have, could lead to massive inflation on the consumables that are required in end game. This would make a massive barrier to newer players wanted to reach their peak potential.

Every week hundreds of millions of gold evaporate in order to maintain those spots.

Kwoung · April 2020

Other .. (explain)

I like the current system, with a caveat. I would like to see some change made so as smaller guilds can actually have a vendor. Whether that is adding vendors, allowing numerous guilds to band together to get one, or maybe basing vendor bidding on guild size, or some combination like... add a few new vendors in each Outlaw refuge or the wilderness, but they are locked to guilds with 0-100 members, 101-200, members, etc... You would still have to bid on them, but you would only be competing with other similar sized guilds. Obviously, some system, would need to be put in place to combat abuse of larger guilds just creating smaller spinoff guilds, but that could be done I suspect.

PizzaCat82 · April 2020

A few auction houses, like one in each capital

1. There are other activities besides buying a guild trader that a guild can participate in. If everything your guild does relates to getting a top trader spot, you might be a good trader guild, but a pretty crappy guild otherwise.

2. A logical, easy to use direct trader system instead of guild run does not mean everything will be handed to you on a silver platter. You still need to make money, and find things to sell, you will probably have auction or trader fees every time you sell and post a listing. You will probably have a limit on the number of listings.

kyle.wilson wrote: »

An auction house without the gold sinks that guild stores have, could lead to massive inflation on the consumables that are

It would be incredbily easy to add in fees for listing and selling on the AH, that could more than equal how much they need to take out of the economy.

We keep having these threads, you guys are going to have to come up with new arguments because everythings really already been argued and countered.

But if you have a vested interest in keeping the old system, nothing I say will convince you that the game would be better off without the guild traders.

But I still haven't heard a compelling argument for someone who isn't in a trading guild already that paying weekly fees and constantly donating and keeping track of dues/sales/raffles/etc is somehow better than a central trading hub or auction house.

Llle666 · April 2020

Other .. (explain)

Why not put a global auction in Cyrodiil? Can still have the boofs everywhere else. Could help turn on the idea of PVP to some of the just pver's maybe.

TineaCruris · April 2020

Other .. (explain)

No to the auction house. ESO has done vending in a really cool way, but it is in desperate need of some tweaks. The vending locations cost WAY too much and the bidding process drives up expenses for everyone unnecessarily.

starkerealm · April 2020

Keep everything as it is

Eifleber wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

*weary sigh*

*even wearier sigh*

Tell me again the added value of the current system?

The current system vaporizes somewhere in the range of 1 billion gold per week. As gold can be farmed into existance via a number of methods, this controls, and prevents the ubiquitous inflation of MMO economies.

kyle.wilson · April 2020

Keep everything as it is

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

But I still haven't heard a compelling argument for someone who isn't in a trading guild already that paying weekly fees and constantly donating and keeping track of dues/sales/raffles/etc is somehow better than a central trading hub or auction house.

The idea of a central auction house for me was soured my Diablo 3, during its first year.

The current guild stores are going to regulate the value of gold much faster than ZeniMax ever could. Look how well they regulate other areas of the game. Bots, have been patrolling the same area for years (not including the bots likely lurking in Alik'r dolman groups) Some kind of variable fee system would require a hands on approach that they haven't had in 6 years, so I doubt it will change.
I have never seem a Game Master in game, and I've played since launch. If it weren't for the loading screen, I wouldn't even know what to look for.

Rave the Histborn · April 2020

Keep everything as it is

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

You can't corner the market without controlling the supply. There's nothing in this game that requires a huge investment, except for a guild trader.

You can flip 90% of the the market but the suppliers will still price lower than you're selling. Because they can simply get more of 99% of things that can be sold on the market. Someone buying all the MS staffs? Go farm some. Temps? Gold Mats? Craft some more writs and undercut them.

What people dont want is undercutting everyone. But that happens regardless. And flippers fix that.

The trading game doesn't have to be Toughneck McDifficult to be good, it just needs to facilitate getting what people want into the hands of people who want it with the least amount of effort. That is always going to be the best trading system.

Yeah sure, guys, if someone buys up all the mats, just go farm some. Was not wanting to farm them the reason you were trying buy them in the first place? Disregard that completely.

VividMind · April 2020

Keep everything as it is

this isn't world of warcraft what is you doin askin ridicules questions we are able to sell our items and etc like an auction house already only difference is it's not opened to public as in you just need to be in their store/guild to sell and such. it's not that bad having one auction house while keeping everything would be interesting though so noobs like you can sell all lazy like

kyle.wilson · April 2020

Keep everything as it is

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

You can't corner the market without controlling the supply. There's nothing in this game that requires a huge investment, except for a guild trader.

You can flip 90% of the the market but the suppliers will still price lower than you're selling. Because they can simply get more of 99% of things that can be sold on the market. Someone buying all the MS staffs? Go farm some. Temps? Gold Mats? Craft some more writs and undercut them.

What people dont want is undercutting everyone. But that happens regardless. And flippers fix that.

The trading game doesn't have to be Toughneck McDifficult to be good, it just needs to facilitate getting what people want into the hands of people who want it with the least amount of effort. That is always going to be the best trading system.

Yeah sure, guys, if someone buys up all the mats, just go farm some. Was not wanting to farm them the reason you were trying buy them in the first place? Disregard that completely.

When IC launched I was part of a small group that cornered the market on Hakeijo and jacked the price up. You just have to be able to find time cost/gold cost.
If we wanted we could easily corner the market on Gold Plating and Aetherial Dust, or at least affect the supply enough to re-set the price way higher. People will follow the trend up.