Why is every fear in the game better than nightblade's?
Nerftheforums
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Werewolf's sets enemies off balance, gives major savagery and major maim/more attack speed.
Turn evil has no target cap and grants minor protection and minor endurance.
The new vampire has a way lower cost than nightblade's fear.
I would honestly like nightblade to retain class identity at bit. If everybody can use nb skills, then I believe class skills should be slightly better than the generic counter parts (cloak and the new vampire passive that makes you invisible if sprinting for 3+s is a good example imo: everybody can become invisible, but it's pretty meh compared to shadowy disguise). I know that generally what zos writes and states are only words with little to no actual following up actions, but we had like 2 or 3 patches aimed at "improving class identity", why was nb left out of this thinking process?
Edit to fix title and the turn evil's buffs.
Edited by Nerftheforums on April 25, 2020 6:10PM Turn evil has no target cap and grants minor protection and minor endurance.
The new vampire has a way lower cost than nightblade's fear.
I would honestly like nightblade to retain class identity at bit. If everybody can use nb skills, then I believe class skills should be slightly better than the generic counter parts (cloak and the new vampire passive that makes you invisible if sprinting for 3+s is a good example imo: everybody can become invisible, but it's pretty meh compared to shadowy disguise). I know that generally what zos writes and states are only words with little to no actual following up actions, but we had like 2 or 3 patches aimed at "improving class identity", why was nb left out of this thinking process?
Edit to fix title and the turn evil's buffs.
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Daffen✭✭✭✭Turn evil is more like a stam fear, and has 1 meter shorter radius. Basically works almost the same. Werewolf fear makes sense because werewolf have less available skills and isnt a good playstyle in pvp anymore. Vamp fear is bad because 1 morph is only infront of you and the other morph doesnt work on players running away from you.2 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Makes sense. But that doesn't mean that aspect of terror couldn't use a buff. I still don't understand like that they removed all debuffs from it.
I miss the times when skills weren't forced to "do one thing" but had major side effects in general.3 -
Nerftheforums✭✭✭✭✭
✭Turn evil is more like a stam fear, and has 1 meter shorter radius. Basically works almost the same. Werewolf fear makes sense because werewolf have less available skills and isnt a good playstyle in pvp anymore. Vamp fear is bad because 1 morph is only infront of you and the other morph doesnt work on players running away from you.
Yet turn evil hits a lot more consistently than mass hysteria, and it costs stam, which is a huge benefit.5 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I actually made a very similar thread recently:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/523414/nb-aspect-of-terror-morphs-vs-other-ccsAspect of Terror (Nightblade shadow skill):
Morph 1:
Morph 2:
For comparison:
Turn Evil (Fighters Guild skill):
Hypnosis (New Vampire Skill):
The thing is that NB fear is the only AOE skill left in the game (at least I can not recall others) that still has a target cap. And when you progress the skill and unlock morphs, pretty much all you get is bigger target cap - which is laughable. Clearly this skill has not been standardized. So it not just needs buffs, but it simply need to be brought back to standards & spreadsheets ZOS loves so much.
They should:
- Remove target cap.
- Add additional effects to the morphs.Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on April 25, 2020 10:02AM7 -
danara✭✭✭@Tommy_The_Gun
The thing is that... NB fear is not an AOE. It s like saying combat prayer is an AOE. It doesnt leave any area during X seconds on the ground so it's not an AOE, and Combat Prayer has the same targets cap than NB fear.
Elemental Wall in comparison is an AOE. It leave an area on the ground.
If you think NB fear is an aoe, try it with olorime, it should leave the olorime on the ground when you cast the spell, but like Combat Prayer it does nt. In comparison Elemental Wall does.
Conclusion : target cap limited to 6 is completely legit, now if we speak of class identity...yeah i think that is sad that now every one can access the same mechanic (in a weaker version yeah but you know what i mean).
Now it could be great to deal some change on the invisibility spam(if you cast it an other time within 10 seconds, it last 1 seconds less, this effect is cumulative)/roll dodge spam for nb stam (more like any stam but this with invisibility is quiet OP), could be great to DRASTICALLY INCREASE roll dodge cost after 3 roll dodges, this will not affect pve in any way (and i know what i am talking about because i am main healer in pve).
Now imagine if there was no target cap, you run with twenty guy on an nb emperor, one fear, every one die, gg.
By the way, before everyone say so => im not crying for nb to be nerf, i want it to be balanced, and my main pvp char is nb.0 -
MurderMostFoul✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nerftheforums wrote: »Turn evil has no target cap and grants major protection and minor endurance.
The new vampire has a way lower cost than nightblade's fear.
Minor protection, not "major" (thank God). And turn evil's one meter smaller radius can really make a big difference.
“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”0 -
Suligost✭✭✭MurderMostFoul wrote: »Nerftheforums wrote: »Turn evil has no target cap and grants major protection and minor endurance.
The new vampire has a way lower cost than nightblade's fear.
Minor protection, not "major" (thank God). And turn evil's one meter smaller radius can really make a big difference.
O yesss mate, shure - Lets swap turn evil with bigger radius and let me have some sweet buffs on my fear with smaller radius
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MurderMostFoul✭✭✭✭✭
✭MurderMostFoul wrote: »Nerftheforums wrote: »Turn evil has no target cap and grants major protection and minor endurance.
The new vampire has a way lower cost than nightblade's fear.
Minor protection, not "major" (thank God). And turn evil's one meter smaller radius can really make a big difference.
O yesss mate, shure - Lets swap turn evil with bigger radius and let me have some sweet buffs on my fear with smaller radius
I've used both extensively, and I find mass hysteria to be a far more reliable stun than turn evil due to its higher radius. Also, on my Nightblade at least, I get minor protection from temporal guard and minor endurance from rally so I have those Buffs covered. Additionally, Mass hysteria triggers my major resolve passive. So I'm not complaining.“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”1 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Nerftheforums wrote: »Turn evil is more like a stam fear, and has 1 meter shorter radius. Basically works almost the same. Werewolf fear makes sense because werewolf have less available skills and isnt a good playstyle in pvp anymore. Vamp fear is bad because 1 morph is only infront of you and the other morph doesnt work on players running away from you.
[...], and it costs stam, which is a huge benefit.
Not so sure that utilty skills dipping into main pools is always a benefit. Depends on how much mag you already use on your stam toon.
Btw I doubt any magblade would like to spend stam on fear.1 -
Shadowasrial✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think that the nightblade fear should stun and then drain the targets ultimate giving a percent of the ultimate drained to the caster. This would be a powerful buff since it’s very limited range and target cap1 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
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The thing is that... NB fear is not an AOE. It s like saying combat prayer is an AOE. It doesnt leave any area during X seconds on the ground so it's not an AOE, and Combat Prayer has the same targets cap than NB fear.
Elemental Wall in comparison is an AOE. It leave an area on the ground.
Pulsing ground AOE isn't the only kind of AOE skills. Fear is an AOE too. So is Combat Prayer. The latter has a target cap of 6 because it is a heal and all AOE heals have a cap. Afaik they only uncapped dmg, so other cc skills should also have a cap, even if the tooltip doesn't mention it.
But regardless of other cc skills being target capped or not, the cap is not what makes the nb fears bad skills. It is because it does nothing but cc the target(s) and it has a slight (or not so slight in case of the trap morph) delay that - in combination with the small radius and positional desyncs - make it very unreliable to land on moving targets. Which seems to be a signature feature of nb - skills that are delayed enough to become unreliable and slow, but not delayed enough to allow combos.Edited by Rianai on April 25, 2020 12:58PM1 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It's part of the class identity of having subpar versions of abilities that are available to everyone else. It's what makes the NB so unique.
I'm personally hoping we get Slightly Dizzy Swing where it has the original cast time, but with the current damage, and have it snare for 20% rather than 40%. I think it would be perfect for NB.3 -
fiender66✭✭✭✭I well realise that mine opinion is not very popular, but I find it correct from a class identity standpoint that NB does not have a very strong AOE.
I have a magblade as my 2nd principal toon, and she is great as a solo explorer. Glides invisible between crowds of mobs and, when it is the case, siphons and pounds with merciless resolve, very effective.
It's a real fun to go around Nirn (and Coldharbour, ofc) in different way than a Templar (my older, first principal) or a DK has to, unrelentlessly battling through0 -
Luckylancer✭✭✭✭✭@Tommy_The_Gun
The thing is that... NB fear is not an AOE. It s like saying combat prayer is an AOE. It doesnt leave any area during X seconds on the ground so it's not an AOE,
AOE means area of effect. So skill effects targets in an area. Skills that hit those in an area are AOE.
Spells like fire rune stay on ground, spells like aspect of terror dont stay on ground. They affect targets in area of effect. So they are called AOE spells.
If a spell effects a area and have target cap, it is AOE spell with target cap. Because it effects an area.
Should I have to repeat more?Edited by Luckylancer on April 25, 2020 2:37PM4 -
nublife01✭✭✭✭dude its honestly simple nb was the main scrub farmer for the longest time. out of all the classes in the game, noobs and bad players used to struggle with nb's the most. these bad players/noobs in response have qq'd on the forum about the class. and ZOS literally has made all of its changes to combat since god knows how long to cater to these bad players and noobs as they make just as much money off these players as they do dedicated players except bad players/noobs use way less server space which means they push a much higher profit margin. the gutting of nightblade has been only a part of these horrific changes. i think the dizzy swing/tank meta along with the two strongest classes in the game being behind pay walls are equally as horrific as the gutting of this class which caused core nightblade abilities such as this fear to be nerfed to nonviability and better versions of the abilities made available to everyone. it's honestly just that simple.
i honestly think what's worse is that they completely desync'd our burst damage combo's that have caused them to now be so clunky that it takes a ton of skill to actually kill a semi knowledgeable player as they can easily dodge roll everything but that's just me.5 -
MusCanus✭✭✭✭✭Luckylancer wrote: »@Tommy_The_Gun
The thing is that... NB fear is not an AOE. It s like saying combat prayer is an AOE. It doesnt leave any area during X seconds on the ground so it's not an AOE
AOE means area of effect. So skill effects targets in an area. Skills that hit those in an area are AOE.
Spells like fire rune stay on ground, spells like aspect of terror dont stay on ground. They affect targets in area of effect. So they are called AOE spells.
If a spell effects a area and have target cap, it is AOE spell with target cap. Because it effects an area.
Should I have to repeat more?
Exactly.
Spin2Win, DK breath, Jabs and what not are not AOEs by that logic.@Tommy_The_Gun
It doesnt leave any area during X seconds on the ground so it's not an AOE
What were you smoking? Whatever it is, it's bad for your brain.4 -
nublife01✭✭✭✭like the sad thing is that a ton of nightblade mains have been noticing this gutting of our class and the advantages/class identity abilities made available to every class. its nothing new it has been going on for a while and complaints have been voiced on the forums about it by nightblade mains and yet theyre literally still doing it. our stealth ability for example is now being given to every magicka class basically as most magicka builds use vampirism and will be using it next patch. like the class has lacked complete class identity other than shadowy disguise and now theyre making a large portion of the benefits of having that ability made available/viable to basically half of the potential pvp builds in the game. it's honestly gross and why i have quit the game until further notice.Edited by nublife01 on April 25, 2020 2:55PM1
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Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭like the sad thing is that a ton of nightblade mains have been noticing this gutting of our class and the advantages/class identity abilities made available to every class.
You don't need to be a NB main to notice that. I blame a lack of creativity and certainly the inability to balance things without creating copycats. "Standarisation" caused more harm than good at the moment. But on the upside, if we complain only 5 years longer, we may get the devs to change their stance on that.
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Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Oh boy, it is so simple. Let Fear apply Major Breech and Fracture for two seconds. Enough to get one powerful skill (bow) and an execute in. Also fights the tank meta. Easy.0 -
Chelo✭✭✭✭✭
Doesn't matter. If you are successful with a weak class, doesn't make it a strong class.
The point is that all the other sources of fear give something extra. So by this rule of standardization, NB fear should give something extra too...2 -
Kolzki✭✭✭✭✭It reminds me of the Elsweyr patch notes:Mass Hysteria (morph): This morph no longer applies Minor Maim to the targets affected. Also increased the number of feared targets to 6 enemies from 2.
Mass Hysteria lost minor maim when the number of target was buffed. Deafening Roar has the same 6 person cap and now gets minor maim, applies off balance and has passive major savagery. I appreciate that werewolves have fewer bar slots and Mass Hysteria wouldn't be my first choice of NB skill to buff. The difference is notable though.0 -
mikey_reach✭✭✭@Tommy_The_Gun
The thing is that... NB fear is not an AOE. It s like saying combat prayer is an AOE. It doesnt leave any area during X seconds on the ground so it's not an AOE, and Combat Prayer has the same targets cap than NB fear.
Elemental Wall in comparison is an AOE. It leave an area on the ground.
If you think NB fear is an aoe, try it with olorime, it should leave the olorime on the ground when you cast the spell, but like Combat Prayer it does nt. In comparison Elemental Wall does.
Conclusion : target cap limited to 6 is completely legit, now if we speak of class identity...yeah i think that is sad that now every one can access the same mechanic (in a weaker version yeah but you know what i mean).
Now it could be great to deal some change on the invisibility spam(if you cast it an other time within 10 seconds, it last 1 seconds less, this effect is cumulative)/roll dodge spam for nb stam (more like any stam but this with invisibility is quiet OP), could be great to DRASTICALLY INCREASE roll dodge cost after 3 roll dodges, this will not affect pve in any way (and i know what i am talking about because i am main healer in pve).
Now imagine if there was no target cap, you run with twenty guy on an nb emperor, one fear, every one die, gg.
By the way, before everyone say so => im not crying for nb to be nerf, i want it to be balanced, and my main pvp char is nb.
Fear and combat prayer are not aoe? That is a bad answer followed by a bad example. Tell me if they arent aoe then what are they?3 -
MusCanus✭✭✭✭✭
Doesn't matter. If you are successful with a weak class, doesn't make it a strong class.
The point is that all the other sources of fear give something extra. So by this rule of standardization, NB fear should give something extra too...
I should've written "/s" at the end. Point is even with a good fear CC at least part of your burst will be dodged or blocked.Edited by MusCanus on April 25, 2020 7:19PM0 -
Chelo✭✭✭✭✭
Doesn't matter. If you are successful with a weak class, doesn't make it a strong class.
The point is that all the other sources of fear give something extra. So by this rule of standardization, NB fear should give something extra too...
I should've written "/s" at the end. Point is even with a good fear CC at least part of your burst will be dodged or blocked.
I repeat, doesn't matter...
The point is give NB's fear something extra (anything), like all the other sources of fear we already have in the game.
If they are going to apply standardization, they should do it even when it benefits NBs, and not only just for nerfs. What happened to equality?1 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Makes sense. But that doesn't mean that aspect of terror couldn't use a buff. I still don't understand like that they removed all debuffs from it.
I miss the times when skills weren't forced to "do one thing" but had major side effects in general.
Pretty much this
That’s when the PvP in particular was actually great and required lots of player skill to know how to best use all of your abilities. Builds were balanced between defense, damage, regeneration. Not just defense or damage.
Plus animation-wise some skills are don’t make sense anymore. Uppercut’s animation is based on the target being knocked up.
Apparently ZOS likes it better for you to use complex spreadsheet combos like Stuhn’s Favor on a Magplar casting Toppling Charge -> spamming Sweeps.3 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
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You are not dodging while stunned. The reality is that you don't instantly break free in Cyrodiil. There is always lag. You will land that first hit after Fear 90% of the time. And the buffed execute has to be avoided, that's the point. You cannot tank it.0
