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Unpopular OP: the new perfected vMA and vDSA weapons are what endgame players have been looking for
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Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭Artorias24 wrote: »Artorias24 wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »You still didn't understand the gist behind whole this storm about non-upgradable vMA drops. It's not about bonuses. It's not about numbers. It's about principle: our vMA drops turn into nMA drops. In one fell swoop. We ran for vMA weapons, we earned them by spending time in vMA, and now our time is best spent elsewhere; to have vMA drops again, we're forced to run old trite content again. It's not okay. It's a disrespect for our time and effort.
Mind, if they made new, more challenging and fun vMA HM or something and made perfected drop there, I wouldn't say a word.
Exept you farmed normal weapon not the perfected version and you get to keep what you farmed for
Nope, wrong. I farmed vMA weapons. Repeat it. vMA weapons. Weapons that are given for the clear of vMA. Now, same unchanged vMA is deemed to be worthy of better weapons, and I've already done my grind there. Don't try to pull a fast one on me.
So i bought my Iphone 10 in 2017,but with only 256GB storage, for 1000$. Now in 2020, years later, they release a new model of Iphone 10, with 1TB storage, but also for 1000$. Assuming that my Iphone 10 is still technically brand new, since I have never used it since I bought it, do I have the right to demand Apple to upgrade my Iphone 10 2017 version to the new 2020 version for free?
Nope, that's not how the world functions.
Trying to pull another fast one, eh? By trying to compare world and a game. Nope, doesn't work like that, sorry. If you want everything to work like that, try explaining why we're not getting to keep perfected Asylum destro from live. Ju-u-ust like iPhone, ri-i-ight? Paid for it with vAS+2 clear, nobody owes me the 'new' perfected Asylum that'll be dropping after the patch, so why not keep the old one with me, same logic, right? That's how the world works, innit? Right? Bueller?
So don't try to pull fallacies as arguments. It won't work, people around you have a brain. Either they're changing sets rewarded for a given content player-base-wide, or they're making new content to give us new sets. That's how -games- work.
I don't need to "pull another fast one" to anyone. It's how the world works, and saying that "you can't compare real world logic with game logic" is the most idiotic fallacy of all.
Also, your logic of "that's how-games-work" isn't fact, it's just how you perceive it. It doesn't make you right, doesn't make you wrong, but it does make you very close-minded and easily deny whatever go against your personal logic.
I don't "pull another fast one" on anyone, you're the one that is fooling yourself.
Still waiting for the explanation of why I'm not grandfathering perfected destro from live. Since, y'know, according to you it's how the world should work.
1. The way you structure your sentences make you sound like a 12 years old.
2. You can still keep your current perfected vAS and vBRP weps. So I have no idea what you're even talking about.
No, I structure my sentences as though I'm talking to a 12 year old, which is what I'm apparently doing right now. Since you apparently don't understand (or making a look as though you don't), I will elucidate that for you: after patch, perfected Asylum inferno in everyone's inventory will change to a weaker version. Question to you is, why people don't get to grandfather current, stronger version, and will only be getting weaker version if they'll be getting it as a drop -after- the patch. So yes, you have pretty good idea what I'm talking about. Will you answer the question?
Where do you get this info? Because as far as I can tell, ZOS has never official confirmed this, nor any of their partners streamers/youtubers.
I'm beginning to realize that you didn't read patch notes for PTS, even though you're on PTS forum right now. Can you read? More specifically, can you read the thread named "PTS Patch Notes v6.0.0" at the top of the forum section? Or you can even log into PTS with your own character (if you happen to have a copy from your sever at given week) and see for yourself that your Asylum destro have turned into a pumpkin. I'm not sure why you're trying to play for ignorance right now.
ok mr. Superiority complex. I thought you said that our current perfected version will become the normal version in next patch. If you're talking the "nerf" to the perfected vAS destro, then it's called "balancing patch", or in real life term, called "software update". Also, is it really a nerf? The current perfected vAS requires 2 force shock to proc, but the new one will require 3, but with 103 extra spell damage at all time. That's more of a rework than a nerf. Heck, that could even be a buff in some instances. Have you tried it out yet before QQ-ing?
No, buddy, you're trying to pull a fast one again. Nobody can force you into a software update, in many countries it's plain illegal if you don't click 'ok'. So don't feed me that 'balancing patch', and don't even try going into 'is it really a nerf', if you're even trying to compare 2 procs with 103 SD, then you're holding me for an idiot, or else know absolutely nothing about the game - I'm already not sure which. So, back to our business: I farmed an -item-, a perfected vAS inferno, so, iPhone in your terms, and now company comes to my door and replaces it with a worse version. If things should work the way 'world works' according to you, ZOS should only update instances of inferno dropped after the patch, but don't even think on touching infernos in players' inventories, unless they want a legal act against them.
So, if you think that not grandfathering live version of vAS perfected destro is okay, but comparing vMA drops to iPhones, then you have a case of double standards, plain and simple.
Even though I've already used the term "software update", you still think that equal to Apple coming to your house and replace your Iphone. Yea, no, I'm done. Your way of looking at life is way too pessimistic and I'm not letting you drag me into that mud again.
Also, if you think that a proc condition going from 2 to 3 is a big deal, then you've seen nothing.
One last thing: I don't need to "pull another fast one" on anyone. You're simply blocking your ears from opinions that are different from yours.
It's a 50% nerf, as nerfs go thats big. And yes we're all well aware of the tons of nerfs that have come and gone.
50% in what? In DPS? In TTK in PVP? What type of measure are you using for this "50% nerf"?
50% more ressources spent to proc it
1 more GCD to proc it (50%)
How can someone who is in Leaderboards not see this? And even think this could be a buff only cause you get some spell damage?
And in PVP this additional GCD can mean win or loose. Perfect Asylum destro went from a good weapon to absolute Trash.
Sure, it costs you 50% more resource and 1 GCD to proc, then again, in dps rotation, you're already spamming it at least 3 times on a roll anyway, so this change would not require you to change your rotation in order to compensate for the proc condition, which means it does not cost you anymore resource or GCD than before.
On top of that, the actual proc effect isn't even that amazing in PVE (unless you're exploiting the burning ticks bug, which will be addressed anyway). The shock and frost status effects means nothing, and the burn would only matter a lot if you're running magDK, but if you're a magDK, then proc-ing burn effect is already not a problem to begin with, and you should rather use False God + Mother Sorrow/Elf bane anyway.
Concussion (shock effect) is 8% more damage done to the target so you actually also loose some dps cause on live you proc burning and concussion already on the second cast. Now these debuffs come one GCD later. Maybe those Changes are really small in pve but actually have a big Impact on PvP.
Sorcs for example. I used perfect asylum. 2 casts into ult dump. Now i need one more GCD to proc debuffs and get my target ready for my ult. One more GCD that can be dodged and i will fail to apply debuffs.
In endgame PVE, Concussion and minor vulnerability is the job of tanks and healers, not dps. Healers and tanks in endgame usually backbar lightning staff with blockade. Healer can apply minor vulnerability by simply using Infallible Mage (depending in the situation).
I can see the argument in PVP. In your case particularly, this change would make your ttk slower. But here's the thing: Does it make the set useless, or just harder to use? Cause imo, it's still good in pvp, it's just a little harder to use.1 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »IrishDoughnut wrote: »Having a extra stat line on a back bar is completely useless. For ex. The proposed extra crit line for vMA bow will disappear as soon as you switch back to your front bar? Right? Hopefully they’ll fix that and add extra damage to the volley stat line for the perfected. There is no incentive to get a perfected version with a stat bonus that will be active for 1-2 seconds tops.
I have 3 changes to make the Perfected Weapons half decent.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/522593/3-idea-s-to-fix-perfected-weapons-that-make-it-rewarding-for-the-effort#latest
Big nope. These changes will make the perfect version a must have for any endgame content, which will kill gear diversity even more, and require everyone to regrind vMA regardless of skill level.
Yeah, because there should be some recognition and reward for doing the hard yards.
Have you even completed vMA?
you've gotta be kidding me. I have already been on the leaderboard for vAS, vSS, vAA, vHRC, vSO and vMOL. You think I can't complete vMA with my stamDK? Come on now.
What I worry for is the skill gap. it's already big enough as it is today, and your suggestion will make things even worse. I can hit 80k with my stamDK easily, but that's not the case for everyone, I understand that, and these changes will make the dps gap even wider.
Skill gap will always be there, no matter what. Giving players access to end game weapons, isn’t going to get them through hard content.
They will still fail, because they just aren’t skilled enough or don’t want to put any time into learn mechanics.
"Skill gap will always be there". Yes, that's true, but the problem is how wide it is. If you're required to have top tier dps to get endgame gears, but you need endgame gears to achieve top tier dps, then the new players are screwed. I say, let the newer players have access to some endgame gears, and use those gears to climb up the ladder to get more endgame gears.
When I first started the game, I was a freshman in college, so I have plenty of free time to practice, and I have a wonderful guild to guide me on my way. But I understand that not all, if not most players, have the type of luck I received.
Also, if the new players in ESO are happy, they will bring along even more players, and keeps the game running for another 5 years, or even more. So no, I wholeheartedly disagree with your point of view.
You dont need top DPS to complete vMA, you needed to learn mechanics. You can get through vMA with 20k DPS.
Even if a player had full end game gear and had perfected version of everything and took on VMA. They still won’t get through it, gear is only as good as the player that it using it.
So they will just be doing the same content that they are currently doing because they are unwilling to put in the hard yards to learn.
Yea, you can get through vMA with 20k DPS, but it will be so much harder to do. There are mechanics that you can just straight up cheese through if your dps is top tier (talking about stage 4, 5, 8 and 9).
Also, I particularly said that we should give some end game gears to new comers, not full sets. It's like giving them a budget to go on, and not leaving them to bite the dust.
If you want them to do something new and learn the mechanics, then motivate them to. Show them how much better an end game gear is compare to a typical set.
Very few percentage of players are top dps and you can’t cheese through stage 5 with dps, she triggers at health check points.
Giving them VMA weapons on normal and having the perfect versions not worth farming for, has no incentive for the players to go the extra yard to get perfected, so they won’t learn anything new.
On stage 5, if you're a range dps with top tier dps, you can 1 shot any adds and drop the boss' health to the invisible threshold before she can even touch you. That's how I cheese that stage with my magSorc and stamDen.
And sure, they may not have the needs for perfected vMA, but with easy access to nMA weps, they can start to learn how to finish DLC vet dungeons, vet trials, and building up the character with better gears.
But you don’t need End game weapons to learn DLC Vet Dungeons nor Some Vet Trails.
It all comes down to the player unwilling to learn mechanics.
So even having these weapons, they won’t compete the content.llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »IrishDoughnut wrote: »Having a extra stat line on a back bar is completely useless. For ex. The proposed extra crit line for vMA bow will disappear as soon as you switch back to your front bar? Right? Hopefully they’ll fix that and add extra damage to the volley stat line for the perfected. There is no incentive to get a perfected version with a stat bonus that will be active for 1-2 seconds tops.
I have 3 changes to make the Perfected Weapons half decent.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/522593/3-idea-s-to-fix-perfected-weapons-that-make-it-rewarding-for-the-effort#latest
Big nope. These changes will make the perfect version a must have for any endgame content, which will kill gear diversity even more, and require everyone to regrind vMA regardless of skill level.
Yeah, because there should be some recognition and reward for doing the hard yards.
Have you even completed vMA?
you've gotta be kidding me. I have already been on the leaderboard for vAS, vSS, vAA, vHRC, vSO and vMOL. You think I can't complete vMA with my stamDK? Come on now.
What I worry for is the skill gap. it's already big enough as it is today, and your suggestion will make things even worse. I can hit 80k with my stamDK easily, but that's not the case for everyone, I understand that, and these changes will make the dps gap even wider.
Skill gap will always be there, no matter what. Giving players access to end game weapons, isn’t going to get them through hard content.
They will still fail, because they just aren’t skilled enough or don’t want to put any time into learn mechanics.
"Skill gap will always be there". Yes, that's true, but the problem is how wide it is. If you're required to have top tier dps to get endgame gears, but you need endgame gears to achieve top tier dps, then the new players are screwed. I say, let the newer players have access to some endgame gears, and use those gears to climb up the ladder to get more endgame gears.
When I first started the game, I was a freshman in college, so I have plenty of free time to practice, and I have a wonderful guild to guide me on my way. But I understand that not all, if not most players, have the type of luck I received.
Also, if the new players in ESO are happy, they will bring along even more players, and keeps the game running for another 5 years, or even more. So no, I wholeheartedly disagree with your point of view.
You dont need top DPS to complete vMA, you needed to learn mechanics. You can get through vMA with 20k DPS.
Even if a player had full end game gear and had perfected version of everything and took on VMA. They still won’t get through it, gear is only as good as the player that it using it.
So they will just be doing the same content that they are currently doing because they are unwilling to put in the hard yards to learn.
Yea, you can get through vMA with 20k DPS, but it will be so much harder to do. There are mechanics that you can just straight up cheese through if your dps is top tier (talking about stage 4, 5, 8 and 9).
Also, I particularly said that we should give some end game gears to new comers, not full sets. It's like giving them a budget to go on, and not leaving them to bite the dust.
If you want them to do something new and learn the mechanics, then motivate them to. Show them how much better an end game gear is compare to a typical set.
Very few percentage of players are top dps and you can’t cheese through stage 5 with dps, she triggers at health check points.
Giving them VMA weapons on normal and having the perfect versions not worth farming for, has no incentive for the players to go the extra yard to get perfected, so they won’t learn anything new.
On stage 5, if you're a range dps with top tier dps, you can 1 shot any adds and drop the boss' health to the invisible threshold before she can even touch you. That's how I cheese that stage with my magSorc and stamDen.
And sure, they may not have the needs for perfected vMA, but with easy access to nMA weps, they can start to learn how to finish DLC vet dungeons, vet trials, and building up the character with better gears.
But you don’t need End game weapons to learn DLC Vet Dungeons nor Some Vet Trails.
It all comes down to the player unwilling to learn mechanics and a good rotation.
So even having these weapons or practice a good clean rotation, they won’t compete the content.
Again, imo, that's 1 way to motivate new comers. If having a taste of how good endgame gears are would motivate them, then it's good for them. If not, then it's fine too. No hate for casual gamers, but it's their loss.
But the perfected versions aren’t worth farming, Even for players like myself. So there isn’t any motivation to get better because the next best, is pretty much useless, especially any bonus that is on the back bar.
Plus It will be funny when they figure out that it’s not the gear that they sucks it’s them, so they won’t get a taste. So they will leave.
Just for me, I have most, if not, all vMA and vAS weps just for collecting (and waiting till the day they're buffed). On top of that, I'd do vMA weekly anyway. It's a very easy way to get transmute stones and golden gears for like, an hour a week? Again, just in my case. I know that vMA sucks for a lot of players (I still hate that bs stage 7 poison mechanic).
But also, if you don't like grinding vMA over again, and vMA weps are now just not much stronger than nMA weps, then it's a win for you. You don't need the new weps, so you don't need to grind for it either.0 -
Artorias24✭✭✭✭✭
✭Artorias24 wrote: »Artorias24 wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »You still didn't understand the gist behind whole this storm about non-upgradable vMA drops. It's not about bonuses. It's not about numbers. It's about principle: our vMA drops turn into nMA drops. In one fell swoop. We ran for vMA weapons, we earned them by spending time in vMA, and now our time is best spent elsewhere; to have vMA drops again, we're forced to run old trite content again. It's not okay. It's a disrespect for our time and effort.
Mind, if they made new, more challenging and fun vMA HM or something and made perfected drop there, I wouldn't say a word.
Exept you farmed normal weapon not the perfected version and you get to keep what you farmed for
Nope, wrong. I farmed vMA weapons. Repeat it. vMA weapons. Weapons that are given for the clear of vMA. Now, same unchanged vMA is deemed to be worthy of better weapons, and I've already done my grind there. Don't try to pull a fast one on me.
So i bought my Iphone 10 in 2017,but with only 256GB storage, for 1000$. Now in 2020, years later, they release a new model of Iphone 10, with 1TB storage, but also for 1000$. Assuming that my Iphone 10 is still technically brand new, since I have never used it since I bought it, do I have the right to demand Apple to upgrade my Iphone 10 2017 version to the new 2020 version for free?
Nope, that's not how the world functions.
Trying to pull another fast one, eh? By trying to compare world and a game. Nope, doesn't work like that, sorry. If you want everything to work like that, try explaining why we're not getting to keep perfected Asylum destro from live. Ju-u-ust like iPhone, ri-i-ight? Paid for it with vAS+2 clear, nobody owes me the 'new' perfected Asylum that'll be dropping after the patch, so why not keep the old one with me, same logic, right? That's how the world works, innit? Right? Bueller?
So don't try to pull fallacies as arguments. It won't work, people around you have a brain. Either they're changing sets rewarded for a given content player-base-wide, or they're making new content to give us new sets. That's how -games- work.
I don't need to "pull another fast one" to anyone. It's how the world works, and saying that "you can't compare real world logic with game logic" is the most idiotic fallacy of all.
Also, your logic of "that's how-games-work" isn't fact, it's just how you perceive it. It doesn't make you right, doesn't make you wrong, but it does make you very close-minded and easily deny whatever go against your personal logic.
I don't "pull another fast one" on anyone, you're the one that is fooling yourself.
Still waiting for the explanation of why I'm not grandfathering perfected destro from live. Since, y'know, according to you it's how the world should work.
1. The way you structure your sentences make you sound like a 12 years old.
2. You can still keep your current perfected vAS and vBRP weps. So I have no idea what you're even talking about.
No, I structure my sentences as though I'm talking to a 12 year old, which is what I'm apparently doing right now. Since you apparently don't understand (or making a look as though you don't), I will elucidate that for you: after patch, perfected Asylum inferno in everyone's inventory will change to a weaker version. Question to you is, why people don't get to grandfather current, stronger version, and will only be getting weaker version if they'll be getting it as a drop -after- the patch. So yes, you have pretty good idea what I'm talking about. Will you answer the question?
Where do you get this info? Because as far as I can tell, ZOS has never official confirmed this, nor any of their partners streamers/youtubers.
I'm beginning to realize that you didn't read patch notes for PTS, even though you're on PTS forum right now. Can you read? More specifically, can you read the thread named "PTS Patch Notes v6.0.0" at the top of the forum section? Or you can even log into PTS with your own character (if you happen to have a copy from your sever at given week) and see for yourself that your Asylum destro have turned into a pumpkin. I'm not sure why you're trying to play for ignorance right now.
ok mr. Superiority complex. I thought you said that our current perfected version will become the normal version in next patch. If you're talking the "nerf" to the perfected vAS destro, then it's called "balancing patch", or in real life term, called "software update". Also, is it really a nerf? The current perfected vAS requires 2 force shock to proc, but the new one will require 3, but with 103 extra spell damage at all time. That's more of a rework than a nerf. Heck, that could even be a buff in some instances. Have you tried it out yet before QQ-ing?
No, buddy, you're trying to pull a fast one again. Nobody can force you into a software update, in many countries it's plain illegal if you don't click 'ok'. So don't feed me that 'balancing patch', and don't even try going into 'is it really a nerf', if you're even trying to compare 2 procs with 103 SD, then you're holding me for an idiot, or else know absolutely nothing about the game - I'm already not sure which. So, back to our business: I farmed an -item-, a perfected vAS inferno, so, iPhone in your terms, and now company comes to my door and replaces it with a worse version. If things should work the way 'world works' according to you, ZOS should only update instances of inferno dropped after the patch, but don't even think on touching infernos in players' inventories, unless they want a legal act against them.
So, if you think that not grandfathering live version of vAS perfected destro is okay, but comparing vMA drops to iPhones, then you have a case of double standards, plain and simple.
Even though I've already used the term "software update", you still think that equal to Apple coming to your house and replace your Iphone. Yea, no, I'm done. Your way of looking at life is way too pessimistic and I'm not letting you drag me into that mud again.
Also, if you think that a proc condition going from 2 to 3 is a big deal, then you've seen nothing.
One last thing: I don't need to "pull another fast one" on anyone. You're simply blocking your ears from opinions that are different from yours.
It's a 50% nerf, as nerfs go thats big. And yes we're all well aware of the tons of nerfs that have come and gone.
50% in what? In DPS? In TTK in PVP? What type of measure are you using for this "50% nerf"?
50% more ressources spent to proc it
1 more GCD to proc it (50%)
How can someone who is in Leaderboards not see this? And even think this could be a buff only cause you get some spell damage?
And in PVP this additional GCD can mean win or loose. Perfect Asylum destro went from a good weapon to absolute Trash.
Sure, it costs you 50% more resource and 1 GCD to proc, then again, in dps rotation, you're already spamming it at least 3 times on a roll anyway, so this change would not require you to change your rotation in order to compensate for the proc condition, which means it does not cost you anymore resource or GCD than before.
On top of that, the actual proc effect isn't even that amazing in PVE (unless you're exploiting the burning ticks bug, which will be addressed anyway). The shock and frost status effects means nothing, and the burn would only matter a lot if you're running magDK, but if you're a magDK, then proc-ing burn effect is already not a problem to begin with, and you should rather use False God + Mother Sorrow/Elf bane anyway.
Concussion (shock effect) is 8% more damage done to the target so you actually also loose some dps cause on live you proc burning and concussion already on the second cast. Now these debuffs come one GCD later. Maybe those Changes are really small in pve but actually have a big Impact on PvP.
Sorcs for example. I used perfect asylum. 2 casts into ult dump. Now i need one more GCD to proc debuffs and get my target ready for my ult. One more GCD that can be dodged and i will fail to apply debuffs.
In endgame PVE, Concussion and minor vulnerability is the job of tanks and healers, not dps. Healers and tanks in endgame usually backbar lightning staff with blockade. Healer can apply minor vulnerability by simply using Infallible Mage (depending in the situation).
I can see the argument in PVP. In your case particularly, this change would make your ttk slower. But here's the thing: Does it make the set useless, or just harder to use? Cause imo, it's still good in pvp, it's just a little harder to use.
Perfect Asylum wasnt even best in Slot to beginn with. It was good and had its place. But those Changes dont make it worth running anymore. Even when i now get Like 600 spell damage from master Inferno. So perfect asylum will be decon material with next patch.1 -
Artorias24✭✭✭✭✭
✭llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »IrishDoughnut wrote: »Having a extra stat line on a back bar is completely useless. For ex. The proposed extra crit line for vMA bow will disappear as soon as you switch back to your front bar? Right? Hopefully they’ll fix that and add extra damage to the volley stat line for the perfected. There is no incentive to get a perfected version with a stat bonus that will be active for 1-2 seconds tops.
I have 3 changes to make the Perfected Weapons half decent.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/522593/3-idea-s-to-fix-perfected-weapons-that-make-it-rewarding-for-the-effort#latest
Big nope. These changes will make the perfect version a must have for any endgame content, which will kill gear diversity even more, and require everyone to regrind vMA regardless of skill level.
Yeah, because there should be some recognition and reward for doing the hard yards.
Have you even completed vMA?
you've gotta be kidding me. I have already been on the leaderboard for vAS, vSS, vAA, vHRC, vSO and vMOL. You think I can't complete vMA with my stamDK? Come on now.
What I worry for is the skill gap. it's already big enough as it is today, and your suggestion will make things even worse. I can hit 80k with my stamDK easily, but that's not the case for everyone, I understand that, and these changes will make the dps gap even wider.
Skill gap will always be there, no matter what. Giving players access to end game weapons, isn’t going to get them through hard content.
They will still fail, because they just aren’t skilled enough or don’t want to put any time into learn mechanics.
"Skill gap will always be there". Yes, that's true, but the problem is how wide it is. If you're required to have top tier dps to get endgame gears, but you need endgame gears to achieve top tier dps, then the new players are screwed. I say, let the newer players have access to some endgame gears, and use those gears to climb up the ladder to get more endgame gears.
When I first started the game, I was a freshman in college, so I have plenty of free time to practice, and I have a wonderful guild to guide me on my way. But I understand that not all, if not most players, have the type of luck I received.
Also, if the new players in ESO are happy, they will bring along even more players, and keeps the game running for another 5 years, or even more. So no, I wholeheartedly disagree with your point of view.
You dont need top DPS to complete vMA, you needed to learn mechanics. You can get through vMA with 20k DPS.
Even if a player had full end game gear and had perfected version of everything and took on VMA. They still won’t get through it, gear is only as good as the player that it using it.
So they will just be doing the same content that they are currently doing because they are unwilling to put in the hard yards to learn.
Yea, you can get through vMA with 20k DPS, but it will be so much harder to do. There are mechanics that you can just straight up cheese through if your dps is top tier (talking about stage 4, 5, 8 and 9).
Also, I particularly said that we should give some end game gears to new comers, not full sets. It's like giving them a budget to go on, and not leaving them to bite the dust.
If you want them to do something new and learn the mechanics, then motivate them to. Show them how much better an end game gear is compare to a typical set.
Very few percentage of players are top dps and you can’t cheese through stage 5 with dps, she triggers at health check points.
Giving them VMA weapons on normal and having the perfect versions not worth farming for, has no incentive for the players to go the extra yard to get perfected, so they won’t learn anything new.
On stage 5, if you're a range dps with top tier dps, you can 1 shot any adds and drop the boss' health to the invisible threshold before she can even touch you. That's how I cheese that stage with my magSorc and stamDen.
And sure, they may not have the needs for perfected vMA, but with easy access to nMA weps, they can start to learn how to finish DLC vet dungeons, vet trials, and building up the character with better gears.
But you don’t need End game weapons to learn DLC Vet Dungeons nor Some Vet Trails.
It all comes down to the player unwilling to learn mechanics.
So even having these weapons, they won’t compete the content.llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »IrishDoughnut wrote: »Having a extra stat line on a back bar is completely useless. For ex. The proposed extra crit line for vMA bow will disappear as soon as you switch back to your front bar? Right? Hopefully they’ll fix that and add extra damage to the volley stat line for the perfected. There is no incentive to get a perfected version with a stat bonus that will be active for 1-2 seconds tops.
I have 3 changes to make the Perfected Weapons half decent.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/522593/3-idea-s-to-fix-perfected-weapons-that-make-it-rewarding-for-the-effort#latest
Big nope. These changes will make the perfect version a must have for any endgame content, which will kill gear diversity even more, and require everyone to regrind vMA regardless of skill level.
Yeah, because there should be some recognition and reward for doing the hard yards.
Have you even completed vMA?
you've gotta be kidding me. I have already been on the leaderboard for vAS, vSS, vAA, vHRC, vSO and vMOL. You think I can't complete vMA with my stamDK? Come on now.
What I worry for is the skill gap. it's already big enough as it is today, and your suggestion will make things even worse. I can hit 80k with my stamDK easily, but that's not the case for everyone, I understand that, and these changes will make the dps gap even wider.
Skill gap will always be there, no matter what. Giving players access to end game weapons, isn’t going to get them through hard content.
They will still fail, because they just aren’t skilled enough or don’t want to put any time into learn mechanics.
"Skill gap will always be there". Yes, that's true, but the problem is how wide it is. If you're required to have top tier dps to get endgame gears, but you need endgame gears to achieve top tier dps, then the new players are screwed. I say, let the newer players have access to some endgame gears, and use those gears to climb up the ladder to get more endgame gears.
When I first started the game, I was a freshman in college, so I have plenty of free time to practice, and I have a wonderful guild to guide me on my way. But I understand that not all, if not most players, have the type of luck I received.
Also, if the new players in ESO are happy, they will bring along even more players, and keeps the game running for another 5 years, or even more. So no, I wholeheartedly disagree with your point of view.
You dont need top DPS to complete vMA, you needed to learn mechanics. You can get through vMA with 20k DPS.
Even if a player had full end game gear and had perfected version of everything and took on VMA. They still won’t get through it, gear is only as good as the player that it using it.
So they will just be doing the same content that they are currently doing because they are unwilling to put in the hard yards to learn.
Yea, you can get through vMA with 20k DPS, but it will be so much harder to do. There are mechanics that you can just straight up cheese through if your dps is top tier (talking about stage 4, 5, 8 and 9).
Also, I particularly said that we should give some end game gears to new comers, not full sets. It's like giving them a budget to go on, and not leaving them to bite the dust.
If you want them to do something new and learn the mechanics, then motivate them to. Show them how much better an end game gear is compare to a typical set.
Very few percentage of players are top dps and you can’t cheese through stage 5 with dps, she triggers at health check points.
Giving them VMA weapons on normal and having the perfect versions not worth farming for, has no incentive for the players to go the extra yard to get perfected, so they won’t learn anything new.
On stage 5, if you're a range dps with top tier dps, you can 1 shot any adds and drop the boss' health to the invisible threshold before she can even touch you. That's how I cheese that stage with my magSorc and stamDen.
And sure, they may not have the needs for perfected vMA, but with easy access to nMA weps, they can start to learn how to finish DLC vet dungeons, vet trials, and building up the character with better gears.
But you don’t need End game weapons to learn DLC Vet Dungeons nor Some Vet Trails.
It all comes down to the player unwilling to learn mechanics and a good rotation.
So even having these weapons or practice a good clean rotation, they won’t compete the content.
Again, imo, that's 1 way to motivate new comers. If having a taste of how good endgame gears are would motivate them, then it's good for them. If not, then it's fine too. No hate for casual gamers, but it's their loss.
But the perfected versions aren’t worth farming, Even for players like myself. So there isn’t any motivation to get better because the next best, is pretty much useless, especially any bonus that is on the back bar.
Plus It will be funny when they figure out that it’s not the gear that they sucks it’s them, so they won’t get a taste. So they will leave.
Just for me, I have most, if not, all vMA and vAS weps just for collecting (and waiting till the day they're buffed). On top of that, I'd do vMA weekly anyway. It's a very easy way to get transmute stones and golden gears for like, an hour a week? Again, just in my case. I know that vMA sucks for a lot of players (I still hate that bs stage 7 poison mechanic).
But also, if you don't like grinding vMA over again, and vMA weps are now just not much stronger than nMA weps, then it's a win for you. You don't need the new weps, so you don't need to grind for it either.
For vma weapons i can understand the rage. I farmed those weapons when they still Had the extra wp damage and spell damage. Took me many runs to get them also there wasnt auch a thing called transmute system.
ZOS took away this extra damage and now introduces literally the same bonus on the perfected weapons. Basicly those weapons that i farmed already! And i need to grind again.... Thats 100% not fair!2 -
Lisutaris✭✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »You still didn't understand the gist behind whole this storm about non-upgradable vMA drops. It's not about bonuses. It's not about numbers. It's about principle: our vMA drops turn into nMA drops. In one fell swoop. We ran for vMA weapons, we earned them by spending time in vMA, and now our time is best spent elsewhere; to have vMA drops again, we're forced to run old trite content again. It's not okay. It's a disrespect for our time and effort.
Mind, if they made new, more challenging and fun vMA HM or something and made perfected drop there, I wouldn't say a word.
pretty much this. It's funny to see how some ppl are not able to understand that.... or don't want to TRY TO UNDERSTAND. That those additional set effects were already on the arena weapons in the past... let's not even talk about that.
But... here we are... why even bother discussing about such stuff if it will be unplayable due to lags/desyncs .... IF you can login ...
1 -
heaven13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »IrishDoughnut wrote: »Having a extra stat line on a back bar is completely useless. For ex. The proposed extra crit line for vMA bow will disappear as soon as you switch back to your front bar? Right? Hopefully they’ll fix that and add extra damage to the volley stat line for the perfected. There is no incentive to get a perfected version with a stat bonus that will be active for 1-2 seconds tops.
I have 3 changes to make the Perfected Weapons half decent.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/522593/3-idea-s-to-fix-perfected-weapons-that-make-it-rewarding-for-the-effort#latest
Big nope. These changes will make the perfect version a must have for any endgame content, which will kill gear diversity even more, and require everyone to regrind vMA regardless of skill level.
Yeah, because there should be some recognition and reward for doing the hard yards.
Have you even completed vMA?
you've gotta be kidding me. I have already been on the leaderboard for vAS, vSS, vAA, vHRC, vSO and vMOL. You think I can't complete vMA with my stamDK? Come on now.
What I worry for is the skill gap. it's already big enough as it is today, and your suggestion will make things even worse. I can hit 80k with my stamDK easily, but that's not the case for everyone, I understand that, and these changes will make the dps gap even wider.
Skill gap will always be there, no matter what. Giving players access to end game weapons, isn’t going to get them through hard content.
They will still fail, because they just aren’t skilled enough or don’t want to put any time into learn mechanics.
"Skill gap will always be there". Yes, that's true, but the problem is how wide it is. If you're required to have top tier dps to get endgame gears, but you need endgame gears to achieve top tier dps, then the new players are screwed. I say, let the newer players have access to some endgame gears, and use those gears to climb up the ladder to get more endgame gears.
You've never needed vMA weapons to beat vMA. That arena is more about mechanics than dps. Stage 5 even punishes higher dps.
You also don't need vMA weapons to do other endgame content. Someone I play with runs 2 mother's sorrow infernos instead of a backbar vMA inferno and is a hell of a good player doing vCR+ clears. Would an inferno improve their dps? Maybe but it's not absolutely required to clear.
So the argument that the people completing maelstrom on normal need the weapons to get better is absolute bull. Do I have a problem with normal receiving weapons? No, but all existing vMA weapons should be buffed (and not with the joke of the proposed buffs like spell pen on backbar weapon) and the normal version should be the newly created item.PC/NAMountain God | Leave No Bone Unbroken | Apex Predator | Pure Lunacy | Depths Defier | No Rest for the Wicked | In Defiance of DeathMeet my characters :
Defanged the Devourer | Nature's Wrath | Relentless Raider | True Genius | Bane of Thorns | Subterranean Smasher | Ardent Bibliophile
vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vDSA | vMoL HM | vHoF HM | vAS+2 | vCR+2 | vBRP | vSS HM | vKA | vRGIT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL THE SAME NOW, THANKS ZOS1 -
heaven13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »IrishDoughnut wrote: »Having a extra stat line on a back bar is completely useless. For ex. The proposed extra crit line for vMA bow will disappear as soon as you switch back to your front bar? Right? Hopefully they’ll fix that and add extra damage to the volley stat line for the perfected. There is no incentive to get a perfected version with a stat bonus that will be active for 1-2 seconds tops.
I have 3 changes to make the Perfected Weapons half decent.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/522593/3-idea-s-to-fix-perfected-weapons-that-make-it-rewarding-for-the-effort#latest
Big nope. These changes will make the perfect version a must have for any endgame content, which will kill gear diversity even more, and require everyone to regrind vMA regardless of skill level.
Yeah, because there should be some recognition and reward for doing the hard yards.
Have you even completed vMA?
you've gotta be kidding me. I have already been on the leaderboard for vAS, vSS, vAA, vHRC, vSO and vMOL. You think I can't complete vMA with my stamDK? Come on now.
What I worry for is the skill gap. it's already big enough as it is today, and your suggestion will make things even worse. I can hit 80k with my stamDK easily, but that's not the case for everyone, I understand that, and these changes will make the dps gap even wider.
Skill gap will always be there, no matter what. Giving players access to end game weapons, isn’t going to get them through hard content.
They will still fail, because they just aren’t skilled enough or don’t want to put any time into learn mechanics.
"Skill gap will always be there". Yes, that's true, but the problem is how wide it is. If you're required to have top tier dps to get endgame gears, but you need endgame gears to achieve top tier dps, then the new players are screwed. I say, let the newer players have access to some endgame gears, and use those gears to climb up the ladder to get more endgame gears.
When I first started the game, I was a freshman in college, so I have plenty of free time to practice, and I have a wonderful guild to guide me on my way. But I understand that not all, if not most players, have the type of luck I received.
Also, if the new players in ESO are happy, they will bring along even more players, and keeps the game running for another 5 years, or even more. So no, I wholeheartedly disagree with your point of view.
You dont need top DPS to complete vMA, you needed to learn mechanics. You can get through vMA with 20k DPS.
Even if a player had full end game gear and had perfected version of everything and took on VMA. They still won’t get through it, gear is only as good as the player that it using it.
So they will just be doing the same content that they are currently doing because they are unwilling to put in the hard yards to learn.
Yea, you can get through vMA with 20k DPS, but it will be so much harder to do. There are mechanics that you can just straight up cheese through if your dps is top tier (talking about stage 4, 5, 8 and 9).
Also, I particularly said that we should give some end game gears to new comers, not full sets. It's like giving them a budget to go on, and not leaving them to bite the dust.
If you want them to do something new and learn the mechanics, then motivate them to. Show them how much better an end game gear is compare to a typical set.
Very few percentage of players are top dps and you can’t cheese through stage 5 with dps, she triggers at health check points.
Giving them VMA weapons on normal and having the perfect versions not worth farming for, has no incentive for the players to go the extra yard to get perfected, so they won’t learn anything new.
On stage 5, if you're a range dps with top tier dps, you can 1 shot any adds and drop the boss' health to the invisible threshold before she can even touch you. That's how I cheese that stage with my magSorc and stamDen.
And sure, they may not have the needs for perfected vMA, but with easy access to nMA weps, they can start to learn how to finish DLC vet dungeons, vet trials, and building up the character with better gears.
But you don’t need End game weapons to learn DLC Vet Dungeons nor Some Vet Trails.
It all comes down to the player unwilling to learn mechanics and a good rotation.
So even having these weapons or practice a good clean rotation, they won’t compete the content.
Again, imo, that's 1 way to motivate new comers. If having a taste of how good endgame gears are would motivate them, then it's good for them. If not, then it's fine too. No hate for casual gamers, but it's their loss.
It's unlikely that players without a good rotation will see a dps increase over using 2 full sets. Before I cleared vMA the first time, I actually went on PTS and made a template character and tried "parsing" with vMA inferno vs my live setup. It was worse.
Now, for myself, I wanted to clear vMA for the experience. It was hard. I yelled a lot. I read Joy's guide. I yelled some more. I finally persevered and got a sword and board. I still have it because I DID IT. A while later, I decided to do it again. I wanted to improve. Ended up getting an inferno which then sat in one of my housing storage boxes because I knew (from the PTS) that I was worse with it. Only later, after asking a friend for tips because I wanted to improve my dps (endgame gear had nothing to do with this desire) did the feedback improve rotation enough that I started being able to use the inferno properly.
People that want to improve will put in the time and effort to do so. Getting endgame gear 'early' doesn't change that. For some, it may actually have the opposite effect. And with the current perfected bonuses being what they are, there's very little reason for most people to do vMA now unless they want the achievement. Which, those people would have done it anyway. The ones that only wanted weapons will likely never advance beyond normal. Why should they?PC/NAMountain God | Leave No Bone Unbroken | Apex Predator | Pure Lunacy | Depths Defier | No Rest for the Wicked | In Defiance of DeathMeet my characters :
Defanged the Devourer | Nature's Wrath | Relentless Raider | True Genius | Bane of Thorns | Subterranean Smasher | Ardent Bibliophile
vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vDSA | vMoL HM | vHoF HM | vAS+2 | vCR+2 | vBRP | vSS HM | vKA | vRGIT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL THE SAME NOW, THANKS ZOS3 -
Tanis-Stormbinder✭✭✭✭✭I feel that all my hard work has been devalued, all vet DSA and VMA weapons should be upgraded.3 -
Casul✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »You still didn't understand the gist behind whole this storm about non-upgradable vMA drops. It's not about bonuses. It's not about numbers. It's about principle: our vMA drops turn into nMA drops. In one fell swoop. We ran for vMA weapons, we earned them by spending time in vMA, and now our time is best spent elsewhere; to have vMA drops again, we're forced to run old trite content again. It's not okay. It's a disrespect for our time and effort.
Mind, if they made new, more challenging and fun vMA HM or something and made perfected drop there, I wouldn't say a word.
Exept you farmed normal weapon not the perfected version and you get to keep what you farmed for
Nope, wrong. I farmed vMA weapons. Repeat it. vMA weapons. Weapons that are given for the clear of vMA. Now, same unchanged vMA is deemed to be worthy of better weapons, and I've already done my grind there. Don't try to pull a fast one on me.
So i bought my Iphone 10 in 2017,but with only 256GB storage, for 1000$. Now in 2020, years later, they release a new model of Iphone 10, with 1TB storage, but also for 1000$. Assuming that my Iphone 10 is still technically brand new, since I have never used it since I bought it, do I have the right to demand Apple to upgrade my Iphone 10 2017 version to the new 2020 version for free?
Nope, that's not how the world functions.
Not remotely an accurate comparison. This is a game, don't compare it to real life. Fact is this. The bonuses were their. They got taken away, didn't make me refarm them then. Now they are back and for some reason it's justified that I am expected to refarm them.PvP needs more love.1 -
PrimusNephilim✭✭✭✭✭[snip] you've all motivated me to give this arena another shot, I've yet to complete normal, stuck on the 7th level but I'm going to do it this time.
~ Cheers
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Lunar on April 22, 2020 12:59PM1 -
carlos424✭✭✭✭✭llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »IrishDoughnut wrote: »Having a extra stat line on a back bar is completely useless. For ex. The proposed extra crit line for vMA bow will disappear as soon as you switch back to your front bar? Right? Hopefully they’ll fix that and add extra damage to the volley stat line for the perfected. There is no incentive to get a perfected version with a stat bonus that will be active for 1-2 seconds tops.
I have 3 changes to make the Perfected Weapons half decent.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/522593/3-idea-s-to-fix-perfected-weapons-that-make-it-rewarding-for-the-effort#latest
Big nope. These changes will make the perfect version a must have for any endgame content, which will kill gear diversity even more, and require everyone to regrind vMA regardless of skill level.
Yeah, because there should be some recognition and reward for doing the hard yards.
Have you even completed vMA?
you've gotta be kidding me. I have already been on the leaderboard for vAS, vSS, vAA, vHRC, vSO and vMOL. You think I can't complete vMA with my stamDK? Come on now.
What I worry for is the skill gap. it's already big enough as it is today, and your suggestion will make things even worse. I can hit 80k with my stamDK easily, but that's not the case for everyone, I understand that, and these changes will make the dps gap even wider.
Skill gap will always be there, no matter what. Giving players access to end game weapons, isn’t going to get them through hard content.
They will still fail, because they just aren’t skilled enough or don’t want to put any time into learn mechanics.
"Skill gap will always be there". Yes, that's true, but the problem is how wide it is. If you're required to have top tier dps to get endgame gears, but you need endgame gears to achieve top tier dps, then the new players are screwed. I say, let the newer players have access to some endgame gears, and use those gears to climb up the ladder to get more endgame gears.
When I first started the game, I was a freshman in college, so I have plenty of free time to practice, and I have a wonderful guild to guide me on my way. But I understand that not all, if not most players, have the type of luck I received.
Also, if the new players in ESO are happy, they will bring along even more players, and keeps the game running for another 5 years, or even more. So no, I wholeheartedly disagree with your point of view.
You dont need top DPS to complete vMA, you needed to learn mechanics. You can get through vMA with 20k DPS.
Even if a player had full end game gear and had perfected version of everything and took on VMA. They still won’t get through it, gear is only as good as the player that it using it.
So they will just be doing the same content that they are currently doing because they are unwilling to put in the hard yards to learn.
Yea, you can get through vMA with 20k DPS, but it will be so much harder to do. There are mechanics that you can just straight up cheese through if your dps is top tier (talking about stage 4, 5, 8 and 9).
Also, I particularly said that we should give some end game gears to new comers, not full sets. It's like giving them a budget to go on, and not leaving them to bite the dust.
If you want them to do something new and learn the mechanics, then motivate them to. Show them how much better an end game gear is compare to a typical set.
“Give some end game gear to newcomers.” ?????
Endgame gear indicates items that one would see after progressing and, well, being at the end of the game. Newcomers by definition are new to the game. It’s like a kid out of highschool who got his/her first job going to a used car dealership to get their first car, and the dealer hands them the keys to a Ferrari. Is that how the world works?1 -
kylewwefan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Real world scenarios doesn’t correlate well with video game ultimate weapons. Remember in doom when you finally get the BFG9000? The game would had been so easy if you had that for the whole game right? What if you started off with the warrior car in gran turismo?
The devs use a term “power fantasy” I like it. My problem is I’ve been stuck in the same power fantasy forever and they won’t gimme no more!
Maelstrom weapons may not have that kind of impact as they reward skillful play a bit, but an impact they will have for sure. Maybe not necessarily in dummy *** dps score, but an endless hail that does roughly 30k extra damage, could surely help some get over the hump in a struggling area.
0 -
ZOS_LunaradminGreetings! We've removed some posts from this thread due to their violation of our rules on Baiting and Bashing.
It’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official ESO community.The Elder Scrolls Online - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site0 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »IrishDoughnut wrote: »Having a extra stat line on a back bar is completely useless. For ex. The proposed extra crit line for vMA bow will disappear as soon as you switch back to your front bar? Right? Hopefully they’ll fix that and add extra damage to the volley stat line for the perfected. There is no incentive to get a perfected version with a stat bonus that will be active for 1-2 seconds tops.
I have 3 changes to make the Perfected Weapons half decent.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/522593/3-idea-s-to-fix-perfected-weapons-that-make-it-rewarding-for-the-effort#latest
Big nope. These changes will make the perfect version a must have for any endgame content, which will kill gear diversity even more, and require everyone to regrind vMA regardless of skill level.
Yeah, because there should be some recognition and reward for doing the hard yards.
Have you even completed vMA?
you've gotta be kidding me. I have already been on the leaderboard for vAS, vSS, vAA, vHRC, vSO and vMOL. You think I can't complete vMA with my stamDK? Come on now.
What I worry for is the skill gap. it's already big enough as it is today, and your suggestion will make things even worse. I can hit 80k with my stamDK easily, but that's not the case for everyone, I understand that, and these changes will make the dps gap even wider.
Skill gap will always be there, no matter what. Giving players access to end game weapons, isn’t going to get them through hard content.
They will still fail, because they just aren’t skilled enough or don’t want to put any time into learn mechanics.
"Skill gap will always be there". Yes, that's true, but the problem is how wide it is. If you're required to have top tier dps to get endgame gears, but you need endgame gears to achieve top tier dps, then the new players are screwed. I say, let the newer players have access to some endgame gears, and use those gears to climb up the ladder to get more endgame gears.
When I first started the game, I was a freshman in college, so I have plenty of free time to practice, and I have a wonderful guild to guide me on my way. But I understand that not all, if not most players, have the type of luck I received.
Also, if the new players in ESO are happy, they will bring along even more players, and keeps the game running for another 5 years, or even more. So no, I wholeheartedly disagree with your point of view.
You dont need top DPS to complete vMA, you needed to learn mechanics. You can get through vMA with 20k DPS.
Even if a player had full end game gear and had perfected version of everything and took on VMA. They still won’t get through it, gear is only as good as the player that it using it.
So they will just be doing the same content that they are currently doing because they are unwilling to put in the hard yards to learn.
Yea, you can get through vMA with 20k DPS, but it will be so much harder to do. There are mechanics that you can just straight up cheese through if your dps is top tier (talking about stage 4, 5, 8 and 9).
Also, I particularly said that we should give some end game gears to new comers, not full sets. It's like giving them a budget to go on, and not leaving them to bite the dust.
If you want them to do something new and learn the mechanics, then motivate them to. Show them how much better an end game gear is compare to a typical set.
“Give some end game gear to newcomers.” ?????
Endgame gear indicates items that one would see after progressing and, well, being at the end of the game. Newcomers by definition are new to the game. It’s like a kid out of highschool who got his/her first job going to a used car dealership to get their first car, and the dealer hands them the keys to a Ferrari. Is that how the world works?
I think the word "newcomers" is quite unclear. Let me say it again. I'd wanna see players who wanna try out endgame contents, such as vet trials and vet DLC HM dungeons, a chance to obtain at least 1 decent endgame gear. Let them have a taste of how better an endgame set is, compare to others.0 -
Atherakhia✭✭✭✭People need to keep in mind that this isn't a vertical progression MMO. It's horizontal. The power disparity in these weapons (and relics) can only be to the point where they're more powerful due to them removing the ability to wear a set item on both bars. Due to this, the perfected items really can't be that much better than the alternatives because they'll end up gating content behind needing these items but will remove the ability for players to experience that content behind owning these items.
0 -
carlos424✭✭✭✭✭llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »IrishDoughnut wrote: »Having a extra stat line on a back bar is completely useless. For ex. The proposed extra crit line for vMA bow will disappear as soon as you switch back to your front bar? Right? Hopefully they’ll fix that and add extra damage to the volley stat line for the perfected. There is no incentive to get a perfected version with a stat bonus that will be active for 1-2 seconds tops.
I have 3 changes to make the Perfected Weapons half decent.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/522593/3-idea-s-to-fix-perfected-weapons-that-make-it-rewarding-for-the-effort#latest
Big nope. These changes will make the perfect version a must have for any endgame content, which will kill gear diversity even more, and require everyone to regrind vMA regardless of skill level.
Yeah, because there should be some recognition and reward for doing the hard yards.
Have you even completed vMA?
you've gotta be kidding me. I have already been on the leaderboard for vAS, vSS, vAA, vHRC, vSO and vMOL. You think I can't complete vMA with my stamDK? Come on now.
What I worry for is the skill gap. it's already big enough as it is today, and your suggestion will make things even worse. I can hit 80k with my stamDK easily, but that's not the case for everyone, I understand that, and these changes will make the dps gap even wider.
Skill gap will always be there, no matter what. Giving players access to end game weapons, isn’t going to get them through hard content.
They will still fail, because they just aren’t skilled enough or don’t want to put any time into learn mechanics.
"Skill gap will always be there". Yes, that's true, but the problem is how wide it is. If you're required to have top tier dps to get endgame gears, but you need endgame gears to achieve top tier dps, then the new players are screwed. I say, let the newer players have access to some endgame gears, and use those gears to climb up the ladder to get more endgame gears.
When I first started the game, I was a freshman in college, so I have plenty of free time to practice, and I have a wonderful guild to guide me on my way. But I understand that not all, if not most players, have the type of luck I received.
Also, if the new players in ESO are happy, they will bring along even more players, and keeps the game running for another 5 years, or even more. So no, I wholeheartedly disagree with your point of view.
You dont need top DPS to complete vMA, you needed to learn mechanics. You can get through vMA with 20k DPS.
Even if a player had full end game gear and had perfected version of everything and took on VMA. They still won’t get through it, gear is only as good as the player that it using it.
So they will just be doing the same content that they are currently doing because they are unwilling to put in the hard yards to learn.
Yea, you can get through vMA with 20k DPS, but it will be so much harder to do. There are mechanics that you can just straight up cheese through if your dps is top tier (talking about stage 4, 5, 8 and 9).
Also, I particularly said that we should give some end game gears to new comers, not full sets. It's like giving them a budget to go on, and not leaving them to bite the dust.
If you want them to do something new and learn the mechanics, then motivate them to. Show them how much better an end game gear is compare to a typical set.
“Give some end game gear to newcomers.” ?????
Endgame gear indicates items that one would see after progressing and, well, being at the end of the game. Newcomers by definition are new to the game. It’s like a kid out of highschool who got his/her first job going to a used car dealership to get their first car, and the dealer hands them the keys to a Ferrari. Is that how the world works?
I think the word "newcomers" is quite unclear. Let me say it again. I'd wanna see players who wanna try out endgame contents, such as vet trials and vet DLC HM dungeons, a chance to obtain at least 1 decent endgame gear. Let them have a taste of how better an endgame set is, compare to others.
I guess I can kind of understand. But the funny thing is that “endgame” arena sets are not that much of a gain. Maelstrom staves probably give an extra 3-4k dps (guessing) and thats if you can light attack weave well. So, spoiler alert, getting one of these weapons will not put your character in god mode. The real issue is that basically giving these weapons away on normal gives no incentive for players to progress vet. Especially since the new vet version gives a really crappy bonus that is not worth farming. In the end, this change will hurt the game because you will not have players who are having to advance their skill levels in order to obtain these weapons.1 -
eso_lags✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭RogueShark wrote: »Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »You still didn't understand the gist behind whole this storm about non-upgradable vMA drops. It's not about bonuses. It's not about numbers. It's about principle: our vMA drops turn into nMA drops. In one fell swoop. We ran for vMA weapons, we earned them by spending time in vMA, and now our time is best spent elsewhere; to have vMA drops again, we're forced to run old trite content again. It's not okay. It's a disrespect for our time and effort.
Mind, if they made new, more challenging and fun vMA HM or something and made perfected drop there, I wouldn't say a word.
Exept you farmed normal weapon not the perfected version and you get to keep what you farmed for
No.
We farmed veteran weapons in veteran content. Our veteran weapons should be updated to the versions that will now be available in veteran content.
I have no idea why this is even a debate. This is clear as day to me.
*And everyone seems to forget these damn weapons already had their "perfected" versions and zenimax took them away only to give them back later in a new chapter? And make everyone go farm them again? Lol, really?Edited by eso_lags on April 22, 2020 7:24PM3 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Wow, people really don't listen or pay attention. It's not the stats that are bothering us. If that was the case we'd be super upset that content that is a cake walk to do is getting gear nearly as good as what vet drops. I'm sure that annoys a few people, but it's more the principal of the thing that bothers us.
The gear grind of ESO is different than some other MMOs. It's not about re-farming the same thing constantly, it's about new gear from new content and mixing it into the gear you have. This is not that. This is the same as bumping gear cap up to CP180. You'd still have your same stats now, they wouldn't change CP160 to be worse. Having CP180 wouldn't be a huge power increase, etc. But it's something people dread seeing in the game. Just b/c this is a smaller scale version of that doesn't mean it's any less annoying to those that don't to farm vMA for vMA drops when they just farmed vMA for vMA drops.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC0 -
Papachico✭✭✭✭So the new vMA and vDSA weapons each add a little of PVE dps, like very very small, I'm talking like 1-3% more total dps, since you'll most likely use either the bows or destro staves, which are often on the backbar.
Now, assuming you're a top tier PVE dps, and you can pull like 80k as easily as I pull this bs post up my a$$. So with the new perfected vMA/vDSA weapons, you'll possibly gain roughly 2.5k dps. That's barely worth anything.
Seriously, if you can't sleep tight at night without that extra 2.5k dps, then grinding vMA/vDSA will actually give you a sense of purpose, an actual worthwhile goal. Plus, with that sweet 80k dps of yours, vMA will be ez af (here comes the comments telling me how dump I am for thinking someone can pull off 80k dps in vMA, lol).
But if you're just a casual gamer, with like 30k dps on 3M dummy, or you don't really care for vet trials, then these new perfected versions won't do you any more good. Why the hell would you complain about having to do something that you don't enjoy, in order to get something that is barely better than what you already have?
For the rest of you PVPers, you guys are doomed.
And for the people who think that "ZOS will buff the perfected version next patch, then you'll have to grind them again". 1) If they would ever do it, then you can QQ, but not now. 2) Guys, this is ESO, they don't buff new stuffs, they either let it be, or burn it to ground. I ain't seeing them buffing these in near future.
PS: ZOS I did what you guys had told me, now where's my personal Argonian maid?
No we already had it.1 -
llBlack_Heartll✭✭✭✭RogueShark wrote: »Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »You still didn't understand the gist behind whole this storm about non-upgradable vMA drops. It's not about bonuses. It's not about numbers. It's about principle: our vMA drops turn into nMA drops. In one fell swoop. We ran for vMA weapons, we earned them by spending time in vMA, and now our time is best spent elsewhere; to have vMA drops again, we're forced to run old trite content again. It's not okay. It's a disrespect for our time and effort.
Mind, if they made new, more challenging and fun vMA HM or something and made perfected drop there, I wouldn't say a word.
Exept you farmed normal weapon not the perfected version and you get to keep what you farmed for
No.
We farmed veteran weapons in veteran content. Our veteran weapons should be updated to the versions that will now be available in veteran content.
I have no idea why this is even a debate. This is clear as day to me.
*And everyone seems to forget these damn weapons already had their "perfected" versions and zenimax took them away only to give them back later in a new chapter? And make everyone go farm them again? Lol, really?
I agree, but the older version had a slightly better stat. Although the issue is, the stat being only on the bar it’s on, so really makes it useless.
1 -
llBlack_Heartll✭✭✭✭llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »IrishDoughnut wrote: »Having a extra stat line on a back bar is completely useless. For ex. The proposed extra crit line for vMA bow will disappear as soon as you switch back to your front bar? Right? Hopefully they’ll fix that and add extra damage to the volley stat line for the perfected. There is no incentive to get a perfected version with a stat bonus that will be active for 1-2 seconds tops.
I have 3 changes to make the Perfected Weapons half decent.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/522593/3-idea-s-to-fix-perfected-weapons-that-make-it-rewarding-for-the-effort#latest
Big nope. These changes will make the perfect version a must have for any endgame content, which will kill gear diversity even more, and require everyone to regrind vMA regardless of skill level.
Yeah, because there should be some recognition and reward for doing the hard yards.
Have you even completed vMA?
you've gotta be kidding me. I have already been on the leaderboard for vAS, vSS, vAA, vHRC, vSO and vMOL. You think I can't complete vMA with my stamDK? Come on now.
What I worry for is the skill gap. it's already big enough as it is today, and your suggestion will make things even worse. I can hit 80k with my stamDK easily, but that's not the case for everyone, I understand that, and these changes will make the dps gap even wider.
Skill gap will always be there, no matter what. Giving players access to end game weapons, isn’t going to get them through hard content.
They will still fail, because they just aren’t skilled enough or don’t want to put any time into learn mechanics.
"Skill gap will always be there". Yes, that's true, but the problem is how wide it is. If you're required to have top tier dps to get endgame gears, but you need endgame gears to achieve top tier dps, then the new players are screwed. I say, let the newer players have access to some endgame gears, and use those gears to climb up the ladder to get more endgame gears.
When I first started the game, I was a freshman in college, so I have plenty of free time to practice, and I have a wonderful guild to guide me on my way. But I understand that not all, if not most players, have the type of luck I received.
Also, if the new players in ESO are happy, they will bring along even more players, and keeps the game running for another 5 years, or even more. So no, I wholeheartedly disagree with your point of view.
You dont need top DPS to complete vMA, you needed to learn mechanics. You can get through vMA with 20k DPS.
Even if a player had full end game gear and had perfected version of everything and took on VMA. They still won’t get through it, gear is only as good as the player that it using it.
So they will just be doing the same content that they are currently doing because they are unwilling to put in the hard yards to learn.
Yea, you can get through vMA with 20k DPS, but it will be so much harder to do. There are mechanics that you can just straight up cheese through if your dps is top tier (talking about stage 4, 5, 8 and 9).
Also, I particularly said that we should give some end game gears to new comers, not full sets. It's like giving them a budget to go on, and not leaving them to bite the dust.
If you want them to do something new and learn the mechanics, then motivate them to. Show them how much better an end game gear is compare to a typical set.
“Give some end game gear to newcomers.” ?????
Endgame gear indicates items that one would see after progressing and, well, being at the end of the game. Newcomers by definition are new to the game. It’s like a kid out of highschool who got his/her first job going to a used car dealership to get their first car, and the dealer hands them the keys to a Ferrari. Is that how the world works?
I think the word "newcomers" is quite unclear. Let me say it again. I'd wanna see players who wanna try out endgame contents, such as vet trials and vet DLC HM dungeons, a chance to obtain at least 1 decent endgame gear. Let them have a taste of how better an endgame set is, compare to others.
YOU DONT NEED VMA WEAPONS TO TRY OUT VET DLC DUNGEONS OR VET TRAILS.
THEY ALREADY CAN ACCESS AREA WEAPONS VIA NORMAL MODE LIKE BRP, THEY CAN ACCESS END GAME TRAIL SETS VIA NORMAL MODE, CLOUD REST, SUN SPIRE.
THE ISSUE IS THEY DONT KNOW MECHANICS, NOR WILL THEY HAVE AN IDEA OF S GOOD ROTATION, SO EVEN IF THEY DO HAVE VMA WEAPONS THEY WONT COMPLETE VET CONTENT.
3 -
dwig✭✭✭If vet Maelstrom Arena is exactly the same after the update then the rewards should be the same. If they upgrade the rewards then it should be retroactive.
The fact that the new bonus is negligible has no relevance here. All that matters is that they have NOT changed the instance, so people who cleared the instance previously should have their rewards upgraded.1 -
AndyMac✭✭✭✭✭I'm probably in the minority, but I really like vMA as content so I'm actually happy to have a reason to run it.
Andymac - Magicka DK - EP Grand Overlord - Flawless Conqueror0 -
Kolzki✭✭✭✭✭The vMA desto's penetration bonus is actually quite irritating when looking at parses in combat metrics. We now see our maximum pen as the over penetration on back bar and not the important front bar penetration.1 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Endgame in ESO is zombie grind
I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.0 -
Crom_CCCXVI✭✭✭✭✭Very "Destinyish" to take a potent weapon you earned, and then one day... ok that sucks now, go grind again. Really bad trend1
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wlkanos✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »You still didn't understand the gist behind whole this storm about non-upgradable vMA drops. It's not about bonuses. It's not about numbers. It's about principle: our vMA drops turn into nMA drops. In one fell swoop. We ran for vMA weapons, we earned them by spending time in vMA, and now our time is best spent elsewhere; to have vMA drops again, we're forced to run old trite content again. It's not okay. It's a disrespect for our time and effort.
Mind, if they made new, more challenging and fun vMA HM or something and made perfected drop there, I wouldn't say a word.
Exept you farmed normal weapon not the perfected version and you get to keep what you farmed for
Nope, wrong. I farmed vMA weapons. Repeat it. vMA weapons. Weapons that are given for the clear of vMA. Now, same unchanged vMA is deemed to be worthy of better weapons, and I've already done my grind there. Don't try to pull a fast one on me.
So i bought my Iphone 10 in 2017,but with only 256GB storage, for 1000$. Now in 2020, years later, they release a new model of Iphone 10, with 1TB storage, but also for 1000$. Assuming that my Iphone 10 is still technically brand new, since I have never used it since I bought it, do I have the right to demand Apple to upgrade my Iphone 10 2017 version to the new 2020 version for free?
Nope, that's not how the world functions.
Your comparison is very illogical here my friend, you're comparing time based reoccurring event with some monetary exchange to a static effort spent with end-goal reward.
The product you use is yearly updated with software/hardware upgrade for some amount of money that could increase or decrease.
vMA weapon do not change on a reoccurring time interval, and if they do you don't have to regrind ZOS simply pushes it to you, the norm in ESO is not "this gear lasts for a -Time- and you have to regrind it once time is up" you don't grind monster sets when they're buffed/nerfed do you?
A better example is if there was a world wide available to take at anytime extremely hard to solve math/science exam that rewarded you with a 1L water bottle that is always full with water, because magic, and also there was an easier exam with a single question "what is 1 + 1" that rewarded other stuff.
Now out of nowhere the 1L bottle of water is the reward for completing exam 2, and the reward for exam 1 is a 1.1L bottle of water, and if you want that slight insignificant increase you have to retake the exact same exam you already took.
You see this is slap in the face for a several of reasons:
1- This is not an annual thing where your bottle of water expires in a year and you have to take the exam again, if it was people would be OK with it because they signed up for that from the beginning but it is not the normal thing here.
2- Your previous effort is equivalent to exam 2, great for people taking exam 2 but it is disrespectful towards you.
3- Exam 1 never changes, you memorized the question and now have to waste more time if you want that 0.1L bottle of water.
It is possible to simply give you the 1.1L bottle of water that you already took the exam for and passed, but no, because F you.
My friend you seem to miss the point a lot of people tried to make, this whole thing is unfair yet people are willing to go and regrind if it was fun, if the content was updated, if there's a hardmode, this is a game and people are here to have fun not to be treated like scum and be told by the actions of ZOS that our time is meaningless.
You used the analogy iphone = vMA weapon and $$ = time and effort, but you do not see people lined up asking apple to charge them more money for the new iphones, they'd be happy with a free handout or price decrease, don't compare paying money to having fun and playing a video game.
People here are asking for different harder content if they have to regrind for newer reward, and I am one of them, I am ok with the regrind if it was some new content so I can have fun, at the end of the day that is why I paid to purchase and play this game, fun not disrespect.
To sum up, process of paying money = not fun, process of playing fun new content for new reward = fun, process of repeating boring video games for previously gained yet slightly updated reward = not fun. Spending Money != Spending time playing fun video game.
Simple solution for all, cancel eso+, don't get greymoore, play other games.Edited by wlkanos on April 23, 2020 9:54AM1 -
Artorias24✭✭✭✭✭
✭John_Falstaff wrote: »Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »You still didn't understand the gist behind whole this storm about non-upgradable vMA drops. It's not about bonuses. It's not about numbers. It's about principle: our vMA drops turn into nMA drops. In one fell swoop. We ran for vMA weapons, we earned them by spending time in vMA, and now our time is best spent elsewhere; to have vMA drops again, we're forced to run old trite content again. It's not okay. It's a disrespect for our time and effort.
Mind, if they made new, more challenging and fun vMA HM or something and made perfected drop there, I wouldn't say a word.
Exept you farmed normal weapon not the perfected version and you get to keep what you farmed for
Nope, wrong. I farmed vMA weapons. Repeat it. vMA weapons. Weapons that are given for the clear of vMA. Now, same unchanged vMA is deemed to be worthy of better weapons, and I've already done my grind there. Don't try to pull a fast one on me.
So i bought my Iphone 10 in 2017,but with only 256GB storage, for 1000$. Now in 2020, years later, they release a new model of Iphone 10, with 1TB storage, but also for 1000$. Assuming that my Iphone 10 is still technically brand new, since I have never used it since I bought it, do I have the right to demand Apple to upgrade my Iphone 10 2017 version to the new 2020 version for free?
Nope, that's not how the world functions.
This example is just wrong. You need to know the full history of vma weapons. Let me correct your example to show it better.
I bought my iPhone 10 with 1TB of storage. Few months later apple comes to my house and Takes away storage and i am left with 256 GB storage. Cause they want that all iPhone 10 have only 256GB.
1 year later apple upgrades the iPhone 10 to 1TB again but you need to buy it again. Your iphone stays with 256GB, wont be upgraded to 1TB again even tho, you paid 1000€ for it when it Had 1TB.
You think this is fair?1 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »llBlack_Heartll wrote: »IrishDoughnut wrote: »Having a extra stat line on a back bar is completely useless. For ex. The proposed extra crit line for vMA bow will disappear as soon as you switch back to your front bar? Right? Hopefully they’ll fix that and add extra damage to the volley stat line for the perfected. There is no incentive to get a perfected version with a stat bonus that will be active for 1-2 seconds tops.
I have 3 changes to make the Perfected Weapons half decent.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/522593/3-idea-s-to-fix-perfected-weapons-that-make-it-rewarding-for-the-effort#latest
Big nope. These changes will make the perfect version a must have for any endgame content, which will kill gear diversity even more, and require everyone to regrind vMA regardless of skill level.
Yeah, because there should be some recognition and reward for doing the hard yards.
Have you even completed vMA?
you've gotta be kidding me. I have already been on the leaderboard for vAS, vSS, vAA, vHRC, vSO and vMOL. You think I can't complete vMA with my stamDK? Come on now.
What I worry for is the skill gap. it's already big enough as it is today, and your suggestion will make things even worse. I can hit 80k with my stamDK easily, but that's not the case for everyone, I understand that, and these changes will make the dps gap even wider.
Skill gap will always be there, no matter what. Giving players access to end game weapons, isn’t going to get them through hard content.
They will still fail, because they just aren’t skilled enough or don’t want to put any time into learn mechanics.
"Skill gap will always be there". Yes, that's true, but the problem is how wide it is. If you're required to have top tier dps to get endgame gears, but you need endgame gears to achieve top tier dps, then the new players are screwed. I say, let the newer players have access to some endgame gears, and use those gears to climb up the ladder to get more endgame gears.
When I first started the game, I was a freshman in college, so I have plenty of free time to practice, and I have a wonderful guild to guide me on my way. But I understand that not all, if not most players, have the type of luck I received.
Also, if the new players in ESO are happy, they will bring along even more players, and keeps the game running for another 5 years, or even more. So no, I wholeheartedly disagree with your point of view.
You dont need top DPS to complete vMA, you needed to learn mechanics. You can get through vMA with 20k DPS.
Even if a player had full end game gear and had perfected version of everything and took on VMA. They still won’t get through it, gear is only as good as the player that it using it.
So they will just be doing the same content that they are currently doing because they are unwilling to put in the hard yards to learn.
Yea, you can get through vMA with 20k DPS, but it will be so much harder to do. There are mechanics that you can just straight up cheese through if your dps is top tier (talking about stage 4, 5, 8 and 9).
Also, I particularly said that we should give some end game gears to new comers, not full sets. It's like giving them a budget to go on, and not leaving them to bite the dust.
If you want them to do something new and learn the mechanics, then motivate them to. Show them how much better an end game gear is compare to a typical set.
“Give some end game gear to newcomers.” ?????
Endgame gear indicates items that one would see after progressing and, well, being at the end of the game. Newcomers by definition are new to the game. It’s like a kid out of highschool who got his/her first job going to a used car dealership to get their first car, and the dealer hands them the keys to a Ferrari. Is that how the world works?
I think the word "newcomers" is quite unclear. Let me say it again. I'd wanna see players who wanna try out endgame contents, such as vet trials and vet DLC HM dungeons, a chance to obtain at least 1 decent endgame gear. Let them have a taste of how better an endgame set is, compare to others.
YOU DONT NEED VMA WEAPONS TO TRY OUT VET DLC DUNGEONS OR VET TRAILS.
THEY ALREADY CAN ACCESS AREA WEAPONS VIA NORMAL MODE LIKE BRP, THEY CAN ACCESS END GAME TRAIL SETS VIA NORMAL MODE, CLOUD REST, SUN SPIRE.
THE ISSUE IS THEY DONT KNOW MECHANICS, NOR WILL THEY HAVE AN IDEA OF S GOOD ROTATION, SO EVEN IF THEY DO HAVE VMA WEAPONS THEY WONT COMPLETE VET CONTENT.
Dude, i have never said anything that vMA weps are required to do those content. I said that it would encourage new players to try out more difficult contents, does not mean they need vMA weps to complete those contents.0
