VaranisArano wrote: »

InaMoonlight wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

It's honestly painful to see people above 1000cp that still don't know how to interrupt. I can't even begin to count the amount of times i've died to one shot mechanics because the rest of the group stares at the boss as it pummels me to death when all they have to do is bash.

If you want a game, and players to be JUST like that, and that, and you - You're in the wrong game. If you have to go on a forum and whinje about incompetent players. It's because you didnt care enough to gently advice them, nor did you consider or respect anyone you play with in any way, expecting an NPC who does everything as automated as the boss or pledge youre in.

If all you can do about newbie or inexperienced players, is flame them cause they don't play your way, nor offer *FRIENDLY* advice - stop playing with people.

Edit: Entirely - consider some people actually play games for fun, not abiding to your 00,2 rotation. NO WAY, People having fun IN A GAME!

You lost your foci if you're not having fun, and newbies bother you that much, do you even remember being one? You're a newbie again now, you're looking at you... What are you?

Imagine players with over 1000 CP being legitimately called "newbies" and "inexperienced". I guess we've got the Alikr Dolmen farm to thank for a lot.

Skyreach carries aswell, being milked for 5k per run by a "pro"....

Never learning to play what they are, cause they want to be pro and disdainful not having seen anything of the game, but they get the levels to rag on other, for actually enjoying the gme - it's overall cute!

They reach 1k cp in a month, and jump on here... Never bothering to have fun with the newbies, help where you can, share what you can, it has ONE driving force - and we are witnessing it in form of the entitled-brats-demanding thread, posts in ANY thread to rag cause you didn't get it when you wanted it just like you wanted it, dedicate the rest of your life to try and hurt it instead of just moving their siittingdevices to more pleasurable experiences... Don't play the game? 'cause it's SO awful, Won't support it? Won't care about other players? They gotta shape the game as wanted five minutes ago? Just. Move. On.

Bonding through whining isn't really that awzum.

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

InaMoonlight wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

It's honestly painful to see people above 1000cp that still don't know how to interrupt. I can't even begin to count the amount of times i've died to one shot mechanics because the rest of the group stares at the boss as it pummels me to death when all they have to do is bash.

If you want a game, and players to be JUST like that, and that, and like you - You're in the wrong game. If you have to go on a forum and whine about incompetent players. It's because you didn't care enough to gently advice them, nor did you consider or respect anyone you play with in any way, expecting an NPC who does everything as automated as the boss or pledge you're in.

If all you can do about newbie or inexperienced players, is flame them cause they don't play your way, nor offer *FRIENDLY* advice - stop playing with people.

Edit: Entirely - consider some people actually play games for fun, not abiding to your 00,2 rotation. NO WAY, People having fun IN A GAME!

You lost your foci if you're not having fun, and newbies bother you that much, do you even remember being one? You're a newbie again now, you're looking at you... What are you?

You sure took it very personal. I wonder why.

BTW when i was 300cp i was wearing Ravager/Automaton/Selene on a stamplar doing 30k dps, and clearing VMA.

Personal no. But thinking of every newbie i ran into that turned out a helpful, non-snooty helpful pro. I'm still an Uber-Noob, but my best friends, guildies and runs - the relation began before lvl 20, being kind to newbies made them epic helpful pros that wouldnt bite someone's head off cause they played "wrong".

Whom of us lost?

VaranisArano wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Q_Q wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

It's honestly painful to see people above 1000cp that still don't know how to interrupt. I can't even begin to count the amount of times i've died to one shot mechanics because the rest of the group stares at the boss as it pummels me to death when all they have to do is bash.

How is this a tutorial problem?

How is it not? Do you know what tutorial means?

The tutorial in this game literally makes you interrupt a cast 3 times in a row. Then as soon as people leave the tutorial they forget how to interrupt. Clearly the tutorial isn't getting the job done.

Most players don't use mechanics because they learned them in the tutorial (which they may have last played through a tutorial years ago.)They use them because they need to use them. If they don't need to pay attention to them, those mechanics might as well not exist.

Way back when I was leveling my first character, I never used interrupt...until I hit Coldharbor and had a revelation. Harvesters were so much easier when I interrupted them! After that, I used interrupts.

A similar issue happened when I was learning vet tanking. See, I overbuilt for normal dungeons, so the mechanics were easy. Almost ignorable. Except then I tried vet dungeons and all of a sudden I was dying when I missed mechanics. I pretty much relearned all the mechanic cues that I'd learned to ignore on the easier normal difficulty.

Another example: transitioning from normal Maelstrom Arena to VetMA. There's a lot of mechanics you can ignore or power through on Normal that'll get you killed on Vet. It doesn't mean that Normal does a bad job of preparing you for Vet. It just means that you don't really learn what to do until you need to know it.

You want people to use the combat cues consistently? A tutorial at the beginning of the game that players may well have completed years ago isn't going to cut it, even if you have the best tutorial in the world. Players have to need to respect those mechanics - and overland and even most normal group content doesn't provide that at this point.

Agreed! I still haven’t played a group dungeon or delve yet, not any pvp or anything like that at all yet, but there’s so many times where I’ve been frustrated with certain npcs or enemies at certain points that seem op, but if you just remember to bash, they get incredibly easy. Centurions are so easy if you just stay out of the way of the red circle/triangle, just as an example. Now if this was Dark Souls, you literally wouldn’t be able to survive without using the mechanics

robertthebard wrote:

[snip]

Yes, the community does need some help in reducing the DPS gap between the top tier and the average player. Even ZOS admits that. That's one of the reasons they experimented with the heavy/light attack changes.

ZOS: "While we believe it’s good to have a skill gap that promotes mastery, we also believe the gap as it currently exists is too wide, and that many players aren’t finding satisfaction in the climb." https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/517545/

Both top tier players and really low DPS players are opposite ends of the bell curve, a curve that ZOS admits is too long.
That's important because:
A. ZOS balances content, gear, and skills based on top tier players, as shown in numerous updates. They may be outliers in terms of the overall game population, but they are the outliers that drive a fair amount of the balancing for end game content, for better and for worse.
B. ZOS develops 4 dungeons a year and a trial based on player ability to do high DPS (I.e. higher than 10k DPS, which is more than the average of the players in my groups). Low DPS players tend to have bad experiences in DLC dungeons, which is obviously a negative when those make up half of the game's content releases in a year and over half of the ESO+ DLC value.

With that in mind, it shouldn't be surprising to anyone that ZOS wants to address the "skill gap" they see happening in combat, primarily by benefitting the players who have low DPS so the Devs can continue to develop content that challenges players with much higher DPS.

So yes, the complaint threads are pointing out that a "skill gap" exists. Yes, I and a few others have provided numbers about our experience with that skill gap as applied to DPS.
We can argue over the exact percentage of players on the wrong side of the skill gap or how bad the skill gap is or complain about hyperbole, but that's pretty immaterial to the fact that it's bad enough for ZOS to try to fix it. The Devs with the actual data say the gap is too wide.

InaMoonlight wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

InaMoonlight wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

It's honestly painful to see people above 1000cp that still don't know how to interrupt. I can't even begin to count the amount of times i've died to one shot mechanics because the rest of the group stares at the boss as it pummels me to death when all they have to do is bash.

If you want a game, and players to be JUST like that, and that, and you - You're in the wrong game. If you have to go on a forum and whinje about incompetent players. It's because you didnt care enough to gently advice them, nor did you consider or respect anyone you play with in any way, expecting an NPC who does everything as automated as the boss or pledge youre in.

If all you can do about newbie or inexperienced players, is flame them cause they don't play your way, nor offer *FRIENDLY* advice - stop playing with people.

Edit: Entirely - consider some people actually play games for fun, not abiding to your 00,2 rotation. NO WAY, People having fun IN A GAME!

You lost your foci if you're not having fun, and newbies bother you that much, do you even remember being one? You're a newbie again now, you're looking at you... What are you?

Imagine players with over 1000 CP being legitimately called "newbies" and "inexperienced". I guess we've got the Alikr Dolmen farm to thank for a lot.

Skyreach carries aswell, being milked for 5k per run by a "pro"....

Never learning to play what they are, cause they want to be pro and disdainful not having seen anything of the game, but they get the levels to rag on other, for actually enjoying the gme - it's overall cute!

They reach 1k cp in a month, and jump on here... Never bothering to have fun with the newbies, help where you can, share what you can, it has ONE driving force - and we are witnessing it in form of the entitled-brats-demanding thread, posts in ANY thread to rag cause you didn't get it when you wanted it just like you wanted it, dedicate the rest of your life to try and hurt it instead of just moving their siittingdevices to more pleasurable experiences... Don't play the game? 'cause it's SO awful, Won't support it? Won't care about other players? They gotta shape the game as wanted five minutes ago? Just. Move. On.

Bonding through whining isn't really that awzum.

I dunno if you realized this, but the sort of players who rush to 1000 CP, never taking the time to enjoy the game or have fun with newbies...

Those are the players the OP was complaining about.

They skip the game, effectively, not even learning the basics because they've been carried through Skyreach or their dolmen farming group. Then they jump into group content they are woefully underprepared for and its really, really obvious they don't have a clue. Its especially egregious in the harder dungeons because their level grinding lets them bypass the usual progression of difficulty that would happen if they were actual newbies trying out the dungeons as they level.

If they are lucky, they are in group with someone willing to teach a 1000 CP player the basics of playing their role and they are actually willing to listen and improve their play.
If they aren't, they get someone who's fed up with "Skyreach babies" and informs them in no uncertain terms that its obvious they don't know how to actually play the game.

I'm generally a believer that the solution to all "my groupmates aren't doing what I want" problems is to form your own group...but I'm also a believer that making a good faith attempt to learn to play the game goes a long way. I've seen lots of times where groups bend over backwards to help players who are new to their role or who genuinely want to improve. Most people who get annoyed do so when someone's causing a problem for the group and then has no interest in improving or fixing the problem, thus wasting everyone else's time and effort.

Hurbster wrote: »

Ooo, Harvesters pre One Tamriel.

Ouch. Yeah, you quickly learnt to interrupt those or die.

Nowadays I'm happy with my Warden hybrid taking on World bosses. Need to interrupt those if you are soloing as well. Different sort of difficulty as I have zero interest in dungeons of any sort, just can't be doing with all that drama any more.

The tutorial does go over the basics. Not really it's fault if peeps forget it as soon as it's done. It could be a bit more dynamic and specific to your class though. I just wish the game was more 'play your class' not 'play the meta' though.

It's only taken WoW 15 years or so to finally get a tutorial after all.

Heh, it really was amazing how much less I died to the harvesters once I learned to interrupt those red flashy lines!

Hurbster wrote: »

Ooo, Harvesters pre One Tamriel.

Ouch. Yeah, you quickly learnt to interrupt those or die.

Nowadays I'm happy with my Warden hybrid taking on World bosses. Need to interrupt those if you are soloing as well. Different sort of difficulty as I have zero interest in dungeons of any sort, just can't be doing with all that drama any more.

The tutorial does go over the basics. Not really it's fault if peeps forget it as soon as it's done. It could be a bit more dynamic and specific to your class though. I just wish the game was more 'play your class' not 'play the meta' though.

It's only taken WoW 15 years or so to finally get a tutorial after all.

It’s not so much noticeable when you start out in the game, as your character is generally bad at everything, but once you get leveled all the way up, I’ve noticed that some classes are generally better than others. Partially probably because the classes aren’t balanced well enough, as the whole point is that each class, and each subclass even, has a role to play and if you use it right you should have the same ease as others in getting through the game.

What I mean is, if your subclass is the dps subclass, your character is outputting a lot of damage but is sacrificing protection, so you can get through fights faster because if you don’t your character will die because they’re less protected. A tank will be slower at that but that’s okay because they’ve got a lot of health and buffs to increase your resistance and typically decrease the enemies damage output or increase your own. The healer subclass will output the least amount of damage but that doesn’t matter because you can heal yourself at will. Now obviously a lot of the subclasses have a mix. An example is Dragonknight. The first one is obviously dps. Draconic is supposed to be the tank and earthen heart is supposed to be the healer, but like a lot of the healer and tank subclasses, they’re mixed up a little on the skills, which is fine because you can choose what skills you think are best for your role. But the whole point is that each class should end a boss if played right with relatively the same amount of health and same amount of damage output. Unfortunately that’s not always the case. Excluding summonings, which obviously make things more difficult for those with lower dps as it takes longer, but that’s a natural part of the game, some classes dps subclass doesn’t do it very well at all versus others. I have thoroughly played through all the classes and subclasses so far except night blade (that one is next) and I can tell you that some skills are just awful. Like for example. Dark Talons in Draconic Power. You would think that it’d be pretty cool right? But you encounter a lot of big baddies and things that fly and these don’t work on them, not to mention they don’t even work every time. Or poison. My god, what is the point even? If you can manage to find a bad guy that is affected by poison, they usually have a little defense against it anyway, and on top of that, it doesn’t do very much at all. And I’m talking using endgame poisons. Not to mention it cancels out whatever your weapon is doing. But we’re talking about skill morphs, which doesn’t do much at all in comparison. Poison is supposed to be an advantage, which is why it’s a morph, but I almost always do more damage with just physical damage versus magic or poison damage.

So yeah tldr my point was that some classes are greater than others, which is tied into this conversation because if you actually play the game instead of being carried you know this kinda stuff.

Its funny, this has more to do with overland content and the community to take the fault.

1. Overland content: There is no need to block or Interrupt anything. Its just not part of the content. Its too easy.

2. Community: Players are kicked from teams when they dont have enough CP in their eyes for whatever reason. I am 691CP and I still get people at the start of a dungeon saying things like, you cant be a healer with that low of CP. When someone with low CP is trying to learn a dungeon, we need to help train them, not kick them. Because its rough till you get 810CP. People are forced to get 810CP before the community accepts them. Playing content that does not teach them they need to block and interrupt. So now they walking into end game content with no clue and no help from the community,

I have been MMOing for about 22 years and I have been playing ESO for 9.5 months. I have never seen a more unforgiving community. Unwilling to help new players. I found an awesome guild or me and my wife may not have stuck around no matter how much I love this game.