There is not a damn reason to care about all those mechanics outside of veteran instanced zones.

That is why so many people in vet dungeons and trials have no f'ing clue how to do things like interrupt.

When 99% of the game can be face-rolled it seriously messes up the populations' skill curve.

As has been repeated multiple times now, this is less an issue with the tutorial, more an issue with overland being too easy.

The Elsweyr tutorial teaches you to block, interrupt and break free, and even has you repeat them multiple times, to ensure you understand the mechanics. But the moment you exit the Elsweyr tutorial, you're thrown into content that doesn't require that outside of very few encounters, and so those mechanics just end up forgotten.

If newer players are meant to actually learn how to play the game, there needs to be an overland overhaul, which so many people immediately get upset about at the mere mention of one.

Some of the tutorials are better than others. The Summerset one was particularly bad.
The Elsweyr one is probably the best one.

I wish we could pick which tutorial we want to use.

I think some regard to this has to do with a certain group of players' lack of respect. In other cases it might be people thinking: "someone else will interrupt it, why should I?" - bystander effect.

I've noticed this a lot recently. Been grinding Scalecaller Peak and it's shocking how many tanks don't want to bother with any mechanics at all against Mortieu.

"Tank, you'll need to interrupt the boss when he starts his charge up attack, and stand on whichever poison vent starts spewing AOE poison at us, okay?"

"Yep, okay."

Tank never interrupts, never blocks poison vents, and I have to try and do it all as a squishy healer.

Darkstorne wrote: »

I've noticed this a lot recently. Been grinding Scalecaller Peak and it's shocking how many tanks don't want to bother with any mechanics at all against Mortieu.

"Tank, you'll need to interrupt the boss when he starts his charge up attack, and stand on whichever poison vent starts spewing AOE poison at us, okay?"

"Yep, okay."

Tank never interrupts, never blocks poison vents, and I have to try and do it all as a squishy healer.

That happens, but in my experience tanks have the most awareness of any role in PUGs. Next are healers, many of whom will slot crushing shock for ranged interrupts. It's the DDs who don't know to stop pew-pewing the boss to deal with other mechanics who are the bigger issue.

A tank can't taunt every trash mob, keep them stacked up, chain/leash the loose ones that the healer is running in front of a mile away, and still interrupt every interruptible attack. Which in some DLC dungeons should happen, even for trash pulls. MoS assassins aren't interrupted, and then the chained group member isn't freed (especially bad, and a PUG killer, in the indrik boss fight). People in Scalecaller Peak get stoned left and right because they can't be bothered to watch out for the spheres, and nobody breaks them free. Tank dies to minotaurs in Bloodroot because nobody cares that they're on the ground chained and are going to die unless someone takes 1 second to bash the bull. Group wipes in Falkreath Hold because nobody knows whose job it was to purify the corpses. The list goes on...

Major_Lag wrote: »

mikikatze wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

I would also like to point out the inconsistency of mechanics and counters.

some stuff can be interrupted, some stuff cannot, some stuff can be dodged, some cannot, some stuff you can block, others you cannot.

its impossible to tell sometimes what you can or cannot do to counter a situation until you die to it a few times.

But do the non-interruptable / non-blockable actions get the same visual cues? I truly don't know (will have to watch out for that in the future), but for me white glowing stripes always indicate that I CAN block and the red ones that I CAN interrupt.

Others one has to learn, that's true... or hope for the help of an addon.

The visual cues are useless in group content, when the boss or mobs are standing in a dozen ground AoEs and have 2 dozen ST DoTs on them.

It used to be even worse back when Undaunted balls were good only for 1 synergy activation, because then there were also many of these giant balls floating around, obscuring the view even further.

But when playing solo, yeah you are right - the blockable/interruptable abilities do tend to have consistent visual cues.

Yep, I meant mostly for solo play and learning. Because it was said that many people don't even know about those mechanics at all. And in many 4 people dungeons those cues are still pretty noticeable. In trials it's rather impossible, but meny mechanics have different visible cues anyway (raised swords, jumps etc.).

I have to agree that the old tutorial teaches you almost nothing. I've played it last autumn because I didn't purchase Elsweyr + older chapters before Christmas. The Elsweyr tutorial taught a lot more about fighting on general.

robertthebard wrote: »

You know, back in my day, when we had complicated, or seemingly complicated mechanics in raids/dungeons/Vet equivalent content, we would take the time before beginning the encounter to go over them. It's been a thing I've been involved in since 2005. Even with that, Progression Raiding was a thing because knowing what the mechanics are, and pulling them off flawlessly, or well enough to get through the content are not the same thing.

Oh, I agree. I was away from the game about 2 years between 2016 and 2018, so I had a fair share of catching up to do with regard to DLC dungeons. Once I got up to speed I'd often start a dungeon asking if everyone was comfortable with the mechanics, and saying we could go over them before pulling bosses. 9 times out of 10 I got crickets, and then after wiping a number of times someone might eventually say it's their first time, and could we please go over what we had to do. But even more often than that, at the first sight of trouble, someone drops from the group. 'cause dungeons aren't meant to be played (and explained), they're meant to be raced through to get the carrot at the end, don't you know? *sigh*

robertthebard wrote: »

That said, all of the tutorials do, indeed, teach the basics, including interrupting, so this thread is really about a half hour of my life I'll never get back. As has been stated, the tutorials aren't the problem. Now, I use my interrupts, what can I say, it's a carry over from when I was super wrapped up in doing hardmode stuff in other games, so I tend to brush up on the basics, and use them. Not everyone is me, however, and I'm not even going to try to claim flawlessness in this regard. However, for the vast majority of the content, it's more going through the motions, than something I'm required to do. The game could have more fights in it that do require the use of these mechanics, and it would go a long way to helping, but in reading the OP, I'm left with the same question that was posed later in the thread: Why didn't the OP bash/interrupt?

Again, that is my position as well. I've said as much in this thread when I pointed out that before One Tamriel and the nonsensical battle leveling it brought, people actually needed to be careful pulling in Craglorn and higher level VR zones, needed to dodge and block and interrupt, and it helped a lot to exploit off-balance enemies. These basic combat moves were relevant for ordinary overland playing, so you'd know to use them in group content as well. One Tamriel may have brought lots of players, but at too high a cost IMO. You can level a character to level 50/CP160 in a matter of hours chasing dolmens during an event and using level reward XP buffs and not know the first thing about playing the game afterwards.

"such a masterful strike, AGAIN!"

daemonios wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

You know, back in my day, when we had complicated, or seemingly complicated mechanics in raids/dungeons/Vet equivalent content, we would take the time before beginning the encounter to go over them. It's been a thing I've been involved in since 2005. Even with that, Progression Raiding was a thing because knowing what the mechanics are, and pulling them off flawlessly, or well enough to get through the content are not the same thing.

Oh, I agree. I was away from the game about 2 years between 2016 and 2018, so I had a fair share of catching up to do with regard to DLC dungeons. Once I got up to speed I'd often start a dungeon asking if everyone was comfortable with the mechanics, and saying we could go over them before pulling bosses. 9 times out of 10 I got crickets, and then after wiping a number of times someone might eventually say it's their first time, and could we please go over what we had to do. But even more often than that, at the first sight of trouble, someone drops from the group. 'cause dungeons aren't meant to be played (and explained), they're meant to be raced through to get the carrot at the end, don't you know? *sigh*

robertthebard wrote: »

That said, all of the tutorials do, indeed, teach the basics, including interrupting, so this thread is really about a half hour of my life I'll never get back. As has been stated, the tutorials aren't the problem. Now, I use my interrupts, what can I say, it's a carry over from when I was super wrapped up in doing hardmode stuff in other games, so I tend to brush up on the basics, and use them. Not everyone is me, however, and I'm not even going to try to claim flawlessness in this regard. However, for the vast majority of the content, it's more going through the motions, than something I'm required to do. The game could have more fights in it that do require the use of these mechanics, and it would go a long way to helping, but in reading the OP, I'm left with the same question that was posed later in the thread: Why didn't the OP bash/interrupt?

Again, that is my position as well. I've said as much in this thread when I pointed out that before One Tamriel and the nonsensical battle leveling it brought, people actually needed to be careful pulling in Craglorn and higher level VR zones, needed to dodge and block and interrupt, and it helped a lot to exploit off-balance enemies. These basic combat moves were relevant for ordinary overland playing, so you'd know to use them in group content as well. One Tamriel may have brought lots of players, but at too high a cost IMO. You can level a character to level 50/CP160 in a matter of hours chasing dolmens during an event and using level reward XP buffs and not know the first thing about playing the game afterwards.

My thing is more along the lines of "It's not the tutorial's fault". I also have this itch, and it's related to players that will "instruct" other players by going on a half hour tirade about how they should be playing, instead of trying to explain something at least semi-calmly. I've dropped out of guild groups when one of my guildmates was doing that to someone else, because I don't have time to listen to that (edited for television).

Now, it's been about a year since I ran any group content, or any content at all, frankly, until yesterday, but even back then, it wasn't "nobody is doing it". Yes, there were random examples that didn't, and based on just that, I'm thinking this is based a lot more on hyperbole than actual fact. I'm sort of laughing to myself as I type this, as I'm actively having a discussion that mirrors this one in another MMO's forum, where the poster was trying to completely revamp the entire leveling system because, and this nearly verbatim, "nobody is playing the game properly".

Why isn't interrupt a single click of the right button?

IMO on PC, holding the right button should be block, clicking the right button should be interrupt.

The way they have it set up takes holding the right, then clicking the left. Doesn't make sense.

barney2525 wrote: »

Just out of curiosity...

When you went to your first job and they gave you a tutorial do you remember everything that was in it?

Or did you actually Learn the job by working with others, on the job ?

I don't know what you were trying to achieve with this comment, but yes i learned everything they taught me, otherwise i wouldn't have been able to do the job in the first place.