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Can you please tell us how you plan on addressing the guild bank "situation'
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Wreaken✭✭✭Well, in my honest opinion, any items duped can be traced and removed from the game, so that's not a problem, just time consuming.
After that, I would be banning everyone and anyone who abused it, obviously people who might of accidently done and gone, hmm that's odd and then just carried on should not be banned, but those who went hmmm, I see $$$$ should be perma banned.
Taemek Frozenberg, Leader of <Epoch Gaming>
Oceanic - Australia2 -
Kryptorchid wrote: »If I understand it correctly, these people dupes a ton of legendaries, right? We all know a rollback is not an option -- that shouldn't need explanation -- but what is an option?
Here's a novel idea -- implement item decay to item destruction for legendary items! That way these dupes items will make their way out of the economy naturally, and you can continue looking into the dupers and banning them. This would also make the economy at endgame better as people will always have a need to restock on gear either through game content or crafters.
I like the idea, but whats to stop people crafting hundreds of armor and weapon sets to avoid the decay of the materials?
Rollbacks are an option. Neverwinter rolled back their servers around the same time after their launch.
Edited by marcweiss81nrb19_ESO on April 18, 2014 1:16PM1 -
marcweiss81nrb19_ESO wrote: »
You are of the mindset that ZOS will take the time to sift through hundreds of thousands of accounts to find dupes. They dont have to rolback xp.. materials/motiffs/gold only.
I dont think you see the extent in which people have gone to launder these items. Multiple accounts, hiding items in pending mail, hiding items on guild stores that arent populated... theres many more ways for these guys to slip through the cracks. The only way to stop future millionares from ruling the economy is to rollback. I dont like it either, but its better than the economy being entirely written off.
actually it was stated that rolling back characters is impossible. so the only way to do a 'rollback' would be to reset the whole game. or ZOS meant they would not ever do rollbacks as a solution. also everything to lander can be tracked. mail, chat logs, guild deposits. multis, all leave a trail, . I agree with you ZOS will have to do a lot of work to really fix it, but really its that or let the game fail before its first month. bannig major offenders will do more than most think. the real problem are the items sold to other players, how do you deal with those. if they were being done in large stacks they can be simply deleted, if they were used it becomes a bigger issue. but we have to wait and see.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
Winston Churchill0 -
Wreaken✭✭✭marcweiss81nrb19_ESO wrote: »Saint_JiubB14_ESO wrote: »your post implies the ONLY option is rollback, that it can't be done by looking for the 100 stacks of Legendary items and the guild bank records and just undoing most of it.
People will quit. especially the ones in vet rank. not only is it more work for research, gathering, but you have to replay the same quests. plus what about the early access people? do we get free time? or do you guys just get locked out for 5 days?
I think the only way they would do a rollback would be if they gave out months or free time and possibly future free content. because so many will quit. I wouldn't but my play time would be extremely limited for the rest of the included time simply because I wouldn't trust them until a lot of time has passed.
You are of the mindset that ZOS will take the time to sift through hundreds of thousands of accounts to find dupes. They dont have to rolback xp.. materials/motiffs/gold only.
I dont think you see the extent in which people have gone to launder these items. Multiple accounts, hiding items in pending mail, hiding items on guild stores that arent populated... theres many more ways for these guys to slip through the cracks. The only way to stop future millionares from ruling the economy is to rollback. I dont like it either, but its better than the economy being entirely written off.
First, you are assuming that hundreds of thousands of people were duping, a highly over exaggerated number.
Secondly, any items that hit the server are time stamped upon creation, so all they have to do is look at the time stamp logs on what items were created, obviously if lets say for example 50'000 legendries were created in a certain time frame = delete all those items.
The same applies for any other item that was duped in massive numbers worth.
It is no where near as hard as you make it out to be, just requires man hours and I for one am ok with the server not coming back online until they remove it all even if it takes 24+ hours.
Don't blame ZOS for it either, blame the players who abused it and those players would be harshly dealt with.
Taemek Frozenberg, Leader of <Epoch Gaming>
Oceanic - Australia3 -
If they are legitimately crafting these items and not duping them or the materials to make them, then that wouldn't be a problem. To me that would be a "working as intended" situation.marcweiss81nrb19_ESO wrote: »Kryptorchid wrote: »If I understand it correctly, these people dupes a ton of legendaries, right? We all know a rollback is not an option -- that shouldn't need explanation -- but what is an option?
Here's a novel idea -- implement item decay to item destruction for legendary items! That way these dupes items will make their way out of the economy naturally, and you can continue looking into the dupers and banning them. This would also make the economy at endgame better as people will always have a need to restock on gear either through game content or crafters.
I like the idea, but whats to stop people crafting hundreds of armor and weapon sets to avoid the decay of the materials?
Rollbacks are an option. Neverwinter rolled back their servers around the same time after their launch.0 -
Saint_JiubB14_ESO wrote: »marcweiss81nrb19_ESO wrote: »
You are of the mindset that ZOS will take the time to sift through hundreds of thousands of accounts to find dupes. They dont have to rolback xp.. materials/motiffs/gold only.
I dont think you see the extent in which people have gone to launder these items. Multiple accounts, hiding items in pending mail, hiding items on guild stores that arent populated... theres many more ways for these guys to slip through the cracks. The only way to stop future millionares from ruling the economy is to rollback. I dont like it either, but its better than the economy being entirely written off.
actually it was stated that rolling back characters is impossible. so the only way to do a 'rollback' would be to reset the whole game. or ZOS meant they would not ever do rollbacks as a solution. also everything to lander can be tracked. mail, chat logs, guild deposits. multis, all leave a trail, . I agree with you ZOS will have to do a lot of work to really fix it, but really its that or let the game fail before its first month. bannig major offenders will do more than most think. the real problem are the items sold to other players, how do you deal with those. if they were being done in large stacks they can be simply deleted, if they were used it becomes a bigger issue. but we have to wait and see.
Yea, I really hope the bans are strict and unwavering. Even people that bought materials in mass. They new damn well why they were only paying 500g per Drew Wax.
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Fruity_Ninja✭✭✭what's a rollback- where you lose progress because the server is put back to a previous state?
i understand wanting to punish cheaters... but take my example. i've played most my game time in the last 3 days and gone from level 12 to 19 and finished off most of Stonefalls and moved into new land. to lose that progress would just be downright annoying and unfair.
i also imagine a lot of people would just flat out give up and leave. why bother progressing when they can just undo it? especially when it's undone because a small minority of numpties can't help but to cheat.1 -
FezzikVizzini✭✭✭I love the way people are just saying things like "make them useless and introduce new mats".
Have you any idea how long it would take them to do that ? Change all the recipes, change all the text for recipes, change the spawn points, etc.
I bet even ZOS could track the dupers down by hand quicker than that scenario.Yeah, I got a PC. I just don't feel the need to post it's specifications for an ego boost.0 -
exactly also it was stated roll backs were 'not possible' for a previous problemYou have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
Winston Churchill0 -
Evergreen✭✭✭marcweiss81nrb19_ESO wrote: »My friends and I are in mourning. Im just hoping they come up with an ingenious plan to catch every one of these cheaters. Rollbacks will cause to much of an uproar. Even tho I agree, it is the only viable fix. The problem is , itd have to be atleast a week long roll back.
Perhaps just have everyone's legendary mat stacks above 50 wiped out if that were possible. I think anyone with a certain number of legendary stacks we could safely assume took advantage of the exploit.1 -
Well, lets get the ball rolling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoZQW0_OEmw
Video evidence of a player in the guild "The Nwalaerea Brotherhood"(0:07) duping hundreds of thousands worth of legendaries.
Youre welcome.Edited by marcweiss81nrb19_ESO on April 18, 2014 1:38PM4 -
Drakonklenok✭✭✭marcweiss81nrb19_ESO wrote: »Well, lets get the ball rolling.
Video evidence of a player in the guild "The Nwalaerea Brotherhood"(0:07) duping hundreds of thousands worth of legendaries.
Youre welcome.
There are a ton of these videos, not hard to use that as a starting point to execute said offenders and their accomplices.3 -
Zakua✭✭✭Ouch I skimmed right by this!
No we can't do a week long rollback, good lord. I understand a fair amount of players posting here are affected by this but obviously a good amount of players have no idea it even took place. I for one had no idea about it and I play for hours every day, I'd be very upset if I was rolled back a week for something I had nothing to do with.
This games back end I am sure has some metrics and reporting methods that the devs could weed out the biggest culprits...I am sure there is no way in hell an honest player could acquire 1000 legendary temps in a few hours/days..hell even in a week, lol...
Ban them....
Or at least zero there gold and entire BP/Bank INV........LOL...actually I think the zero of all assets would be funny...we would see them running around cities with no clothes,weapons or gold...they'd have to go back to a starter island to fist fight a lvl3 to get a possible clothing/armor/weapon drop ...HAhahah I am liking this...0 -
Evergreen✭✭✭Drakonklenok wrote: »marcweiss81nrb19_ESO wrote: »Well, lets get the ball rolling.
Video evidence of a player in the guild "The Nwalaerea Brotherhood"(0:07) duping hundreds of thousands worth of legendaries.
Youre welcome.
There are a ton of these videos, not hard to use that as a starting point to execute said offenders and their accomplices.
If Zenimax is unable to ban everyone in these guilds who benefited from the exploit for technical or other reasons please make another server so that those of us that want to a fresh start can have one.1 -
Wouldn't be difficult to organize the database by accounts that have highest gold, put those accounts to review. Organize account by highest number of stacked high tier crafting mats, review those. I imagine there are also guild bank logs -- parse them for large stack withdrawals of certain items, review those accounts. They won't get every single person, but they can get 95% of them.
The big question is whether they'll care enough to punish these people. I know SoE is notorious for letting things like this slide, while Blizzard is notorious for ensuring they ban everyone involved. Time will tell the stance they take.
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Ouch I skimmed right by this!
No we can't do a week long rollback, good lord. I understand a fair amount of players posting here are affected by this but obviously a good amount of players have no idea it even took place. I for one had no idea about it and I play for hours every day, I'd be very upset if I was rolled back a week for something I had nothing to do with.
This games back end I am sure has some metrics and reporting methods that the devs could weed out the biggest culprits...I am sure there is no way in hell an honest player could acquire 1000 legendary temps in a few hours/days..hell even in a week, lol...
Ban them....
Or at least zero there gold and entire BP/Bank INV........LOL...actually I think the zero of all assets would be funny...we would see them running around cities with no clothes,weapons or gold...they'd have to go back to a starter island to fist fight a lvl3 to get a possible clothing/armor/weapon drop ...HAhahah I am liking this...
We havent even touched on the PVP domination of people exploiting Siege weapons and repair items usually gained through AP. I just read in another post that the duplication of these items leads to free AP gain upon their use. So.. AP on demand courtesy of thousands of sieges and kits.
The game needs to be rolled back. Its the final and only solution. The more you find out about this , the more you are grateful you are not in ZOS` shoes atm.Edited by marcweiss81nrb19_ESO on April 18, 2014 2:05PM2 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭luceri84b14_ESO wrote: »Wouldn't be difficult to organize the database by accounts that have highest gold, put those accounts to review. Organize account by highest number of stacked high tier crafting mats, review those. I imagine there are also guild bank logs -- parse them for large stack withdrawals of certain items, review those accounts. They won't get every single person, but they can get 95% of them.
The big question is whether they'll care enough to punish these people. I know SoE is notorious for letting things like this slide, while Blizzard is notorious for ensuring they ban everyone involved. Time will tell the stance they take.
I hope they do just this, the people have been exploiting since game was released (early access). Some of them will have laundered the money weeks ago and some will have done the exploiting on second accounts to try minimise the chances their mains got caught. Looking at the wealth of all accounts will be a good start.0 -
Magischzwei✭✭✭Ive made a topic on how I think over this here:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/81857/the-wider-implications-of-large-scale-duping#latest1 -
Magischzwei wrote: »Ive made a topic on how I think over this here:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/81857/the-wider-implications-of-large-scale-duping#latest
I think you need to elaborate on pvp ramifications. Read this: http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/23cr41/the_dupe_exploit_and_pvp_siege_forward_camps_and/
Great post otherwise.
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Mujuro✭✭✭✭marcweiss81nrb19_ESO wrote: »They have logs of everything. They could technically, if they took the time to do it, remove every single piece of gold and ill gotten item from the game. The Banning is just a quicker, easier less sweeping solution.
While every action may be "logged" against the server eventually, I doubt ZOS has the technical wherewithal to parse logs effectively to root out valid vs. invalid transactions. A wipe/revert is the only way to get back to even, but, as others have noted, would likely cause many to ragequit and seek refunds (myself included).
Edited by Mujuro on April 18, 2014 2:14PM1 -
zhevon✭✭✭✭
They really need a "why was I banned forum" here - like xbox has. Where people give their side of the story and ZOS gives theirs and maybe reverses the punishment. It would also give visability to the whole process of banning and suspension.Last time I heard that from a game company, I also saw whining all over twitch, youtube and other game forums from the exploiters actually being banned.
Typically when they say something like that, they really did ban people.
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Dunhilda✭✭✭shadyjane62 wrote: »Maybe they could roll back whole game to early access first day. That would be only fair thing to everybody.
Oh sure I mean time isn't valuable at all, that time I would had wasted playing this game legitimately would be wasted when I had done nothing wrong?
No that isn't fair for everybody and if ZoS ever did it I'm sure many will never return to them in the future.
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Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This would have been WAY more devistating if there was an auction house. These items would have spread like wildfire. It will be easier to contain. The economy will be fine.0 -
AstroCat✭✭✭The "word" is out now:
http://kotaku.com/major-duping-bug-hits-the-elder-scrolls-online-1564641897
I look forward to ZOE's response.1 -
Alphashado wrote: »This would have been WAY more devistating if there was an auction house. These items would have spread like wildfire. It will be easier to contain. The economy will be fine.
Im not quite sure you understand how many people have amassed enough legendary items to clothe and arm them for coming years. How is that fine? Think about it the next time youre out grinding for some gold.
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Hestia✭✭✭I would support rollbacks on those who actually exploited this bug. Do not punish those who did nothing wrong.<Alatreon> Daggerfall Covenant | International | PvX | Adult Community | TS3+Mic required.
Recruitment Thread & Website0 -
Dev✭✭✭✭shadyjane62 wrote: »Maybe they could roll back whole game to early access first day. That would be only fair thing to everybody.
How exactly is this fair to everybody?
I didn't dupe, or cheat but I should be punished because some other players did and the company released code which allowed it?
This isn't beta, we are paying customers with some basic expectations.
Also I have yet to see a MMO with a good economy, so this notion that the economy is broken if they don't roll back is in err. Seriously think about it, if its not this bug, it will be bots, gold sellers and ect.
I really wish that these MMO makers would stop creating player based economies since they never work.
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Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭marcweiss81nrb19_ESO wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »This would have been WAY more devistating if there was an auction house. These items would have spread like wildfire. It will be easier to contain. The economy will be fine.
Im not quite sure you understand how many people have amassed enough legendary items to clothe and arm them for coming years. How is that fine? Think about it the next time youre out grinding for some gold.
Compared to the millions of people that are playing this game, the violators that have tons of duped items are still only a handful. Even if there 50,000 dupers with a million items, that is stil a small fraction of the player base. Without an auction house, these items can only spread so fast. They will find and delete most of them. I have heard all this doom and gloom before. It will be fine.
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