OMG can we please get ridd of "training" trait on dungeon gear????

Nemesis7884 · March 2020

You know how fun it is to get 80% training gear in a run...why is that even still a thing??? rng is bad enough

Lysette · March 2020

Let me guess - to get at least something out of a failed run?

TheFM · March 2020

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

You know how fun it is to get 80% training gear in a run...why is that even still a thing??? rng is bad enough

For top level gear? Agreed.

mateosalvaje · March 2020

I personally feel like leveling up is too fast now. I've said this before, but you used to have to do a whole alliance worth of quest content to get to level 50, now you can level to 50 with one chapter. Now I have an 810 Necromancer with not enough skill points, and leveling just doesn't feel as organic anymore. I still love the game 💋

Nemesis7884 · March 2020

Lysette wrote: »

Let me guess - to get at least something out of a failed run?

no to get something out of it AT ALL - its just pointless to even distribute it, no one wants it and dont tell me you do - there is no need for training trait on dungeon gear

yeah i know its rng but if after 3 runs 50% of the loot is training gear my teeth start to hurt

idk · March 2020

Some people may use training gear to level up skills, different morph, gain CP. That coupled with the fact we can change traits pretty at will makes this a non-issue.

ProfessorKittyhawk · March 2020

You would have a point if only transmute stones weren't capped at 200 and so hard to gather unless you're a hardcore pvp-er.

VaranisArano · March 2020

I could see removing training trait from CP 160 gear. Below that, its still useful.

But naturally the moment it gets removed from CP 160 gear, someone will say "But I needed that for leveling to CP 810!"

Dark_Lord_Kuro · March 2020

ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »

You would have a point if only transmute stones weren't capped at 200 and so hard to gather unless you're a hardcore pvp-er.

I only pvp during midyear/frostfall mayhem and i swim in geodes

FierceSam · March 2020

Because some people in dungeons aren’t CP810 with a rubbish attitude?

idk · March 2020

ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »

You would have a point if only transmute stones weren't capped at 200 and so hard to gather unless you're a hardcore pvp-er.

It is easy to stock up on geodes. Even for someone that does not bother doing PvP outside of MYM that cap of 200 is irrelevant. Zos created the transmutation system so people can change the trait if they do not like it.

As I pointed out earlier, and others have noted, the training trait is useful to some players. So it is beneficial to leave the trait in the mix and merely a very minor inconvenience to those who do not like the trait dropping on CP 160 gear.

Nemesis7884 · March 2020

idk wrote: »

Some people may use training gear to level up skills, different morph, gain CP. That coupled with the fact we can change traits pretty at will makes this a non-issue.

collecting crystals to transmute in pve is unbelievably tedious

idk · March 2020

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Some people may use training gear to level up skills, different morph, gain CP. That coupled with the fact we can change traits pretty at will makes this a non-issue.

collecting crystals to transmute in pve is unbelievably tedious

Seems that you have a complaint about everything. Farming gear is too tedious. The solution to making farming gear less tedious is too tedious.

The solid fact remains that Zos created the transmutation system for the very reason for the complaint made in the OP. Just because someone chooses to not do the activities Zos made effectively or do not play enough is a personal issue.

Besides that, we have pointed out that the training trait dropping on dungeon gear is useful. We have not touched on your comment that 80% of the gear that drops for you in dungeons is training traits because of you either have bad RNG or are massaging the numbers to try to make it look like an issue it is not.

barney2525 · March 2020

mateosalvaje wrote: »

I personally feel like leveling up is too fast now. I've said this before, but you used to have to do a whole alliance worth of quest content to get to level 50, now you can level to 50 with one chapter. Now I have an 810 Necromancer with not enough skill points, and leveling just doesn't feel as organic anymore. I still love the game 💋

I'm not buying it

Level 50, ... ok.

810 CPs and you don't have enough skill points? Thats on you. Did you just run dolmens 8 hours a day for 6 months? Did you never ever pick up a single skyshard?

Your skillpoints come from What you Do , not what Level you are.

IMHO

Na0cho · March 2020

I can see how training is a bit annoying, HOWEVER I transmute things all the time just to make room so I can open more of those inventory clogging geodes.

I mean, I get so many from dungeons or pvp I literally transmute trash and deconn it just so I can fit more.

How do you not have enough if you are running dungeons op?

Twenty0zTsunami · March 2020

TheFM wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

You know how fun it is to get 80% training gear in a run...why is that even still a thing??? rng is bad enough

For top level gear? Agreed.

You can just transmute it.

Nemesis7884 · March 2020

Na0cho wrote: »

I can see how training is a bit annoying, HOWEVER I transmute things all the time just to make room so I can open more of those inventory clogging geodes.

I mean, I get so many from dungeons or pvp I literally transmute trash and deconn it just so I can fit more.

How do you not have enough if you are running dungeons op?

18 characters...

Nordic__Knights · March 2020

NO AS IM SWITCHING OVER PS4 TO PC ILL NEED THAT TRAINING GEAR 😆 😆 😆

bearbelly · March 2020

'Training' is in no way worse than "Invigorating,' so where do we stop with the demands that they remove something?
There are nine traits; chances are not in your favor of getting the one trait you want out of a particular run.

So what precisely would you have them do?

AlnilamE · March 2020

Would you rather have well-fitted?

Because training is useful.

ArchangelIsraphel · March 2020

mateosalvaje wrote: »

I personally feel like leveling up is too fast now. I've said this before, but you used to have to do a whole alliance worth of quest content to get to level 50, now you can level to 50 with one chapter. Now I have an 810 Necromancer with not enough skill points, and leveling just doesn't feel as organic anymore. I still love the game 💋

I agree with this completely. I just made a brand new Templar, and all I've done is Bleakrock Isle and killed a few mobs in murkmire and he's already level 20. I've BARELY touched any content in the game and he's leveling way too fast. My account as a whole is lvl 864 and I'm not even actively trying to level.

I hate to say it but I kind of wish the leveling process took more effort because thats what I enjoy about creating new characters.

Arunei · March 2020

@ArchangelIsraphel
Personally I despise leveling, and I know others who do as well. And still others might find leveling takes too long or is too hard, for any number of reasons. It would be nice if ZOS could introduce a difficulty slider that maybe adjusted not only difficulty overall, but also experience gains and things like that. Granted, that's probably impossible to do for an MMO; if people with different settings all fight the same boss, how does the game determine which setting for the boss to use? Then again, I guess they've kind of done the same thing with level scaling, right? If a level 20 starts attacking a WB and a CP160 comes in and helps, the game is still calculating stuff differently for both levels? I would assume at least, but I know nothing about coding. So maybe it wouldn't be as impossible to implement. If anything, some way of controlling how much experience you get could maybe work, so people can adjust things to a level they're comfortable with and enjoy.

That being said, it IS pretty annoying to get useless Traits on gear when you're end-level farming for a specific thing, buuuuut...by that logic, isn't EVERY Trait that ISN'T the one you want useless on any given piece of piece? I will agree that being told "transmutation is a thing" isn't exactly a valid reply for this, though, because for people who don't PvP, getting Transmute Stones takes a ridiculously long time. They REALLY need to increase the number of Stones you get from doing Undaunted Pledges, and also introduce other ways of getting them. PVPers aren't the only ones to use gear with specific Traits, after all, so why should PvP be the only reliable way of getting a usable number amount?

At any rate, the Training gear isn't even useless, as you can easily use it while you either a) continue farming for the right Trait, or b) save up enough Transmute Stones to change the Trait. Trait doesn't effect set bonuses, after all.

CMDR_Un1k0rn · March 2020

I could say that on many sets, impen' is even more useless... Especially if you don't PvP.. Like, if you don't do that then Impen is basically no trait. That wear-&-tear reduction is purely to say it isn't "useless". Because a few hundred gold is so crippling...

Transmute crystals. It's that easy. Play the game and you'll be rolling in them.

hackdrag0n · March 2020

Let's not forget invigorating. At least training might be useful to some people. Invigorating is trash for everyone.

MashmalloMan · March 2020

hackdrag0n wrote: »

Let's not forget invigorating. At least training might be useful to some people. Invigorating is trash for everyone.

Debatable.

Gold Invigorating = +11 HP Reg /+11 Stam Reg /+11 Mag Reg for total of +33

Gold Divines = +7.5%
If you had Serpent/Atronach/Steed Mundus: 258 * 0.075 = +19

This math shows Invigorating is in line with Divines for regen by providing a higher total sum, but gets the "tripple dipping" benefit you find on Tri-Glyphs or Tri-Stat Food where the overall sum is higher because the number is divided by 3 sources instead of 2. Even if you argued HP Regen shouldn't be held to the same standard and weight in this equation, +11 Mag Reg and +11 Stam Reg is still slightly above the +19 from Divines.

So the value of the trait is in the eye of the beholder, it's not actually undervalued when compared on paper. If anything, all the traits are undervalued when compared to the power that Impen is able to provide in PVP where this trait should be relevant. Impen overshadows everything with only Well-fitted as a close second.

Only issue for me is not valuing HP regen at a higher ratio VS stam/mag reg. This is also why I find Khajiit underwhelming with only 100 vs 85. HP regen is offered for free on gold foods, it's value on some sets is vastly over the typical amount you'd find with stam/mag regen (as it should) but lower on other sources like Invigorating.

For example: Endurance 3 piece bonus providing +618 HP regen which is 4.79 times stronger than the typical 129 regen bonus on 2-4 piece armor. Agilities 3 piece bonus provides +206 WPD which is 1.596 times stronger than the typical 129 WPD bonus.

Really, this brings up multiple issues IMO. Stam/Mag Reg should not be equal to Weapon/Spell Damage. I'd argue the ratio should be something like 1 damage = 1.2 stam/mag regen. 1 stam/mag regen should then be equal to 1.2 hp regen.

This would fix instances like Wood Elves VS Orcs. That 258 Stam Reg would become 310 which is more in line with the amount of regen provided by the food they're unable to use in PVE. Orcs with Artaeum Takeaway broth actually have more sustain than Wood Elves with Bi-Stat food because of an error in statistic standards set by ZOS.

129 Stam/Mag Regen on 1-4 piece bonuses would become 155.

HP Regen on 1-4 pieces would become 186.

Just spitballing, maybe the ratio isn't perfect, but to say the ratio for damage to regen should be equal is wrong imo. There is already a ratio in place for Stam/Mag to Health of about 1:1.1. Similar practice should be in place for Regen stats.

code65536 · March 2020

Training never drops from trials, so that's ZOS's roundabout way of saying, "we think trials are endgame and dungeons are not quite endgame". *shrugs*

Gilvoth · March 2020

no
because new people need training gear to help them level that skill up faster, just exactly like WE did when we were new.
the answer to this is:
if you dont like "training gear trait, then just ask for a NEW trait to be made instead of ruining it for the new people.

OR, ask for the "training trait" to be something that can only be created by crafting that armor trait*
and then use it for helping speed train skills for lower level characters.

Gilvoth · March 2020

hackdrag0n wrote: »

Let's not forget invigorating. At least training might be useful to some people. Invigorating is trash for everyone.

that is completely false.
there are many people (myself included) that have good uses for that invigorating trait.

brandonv516 · March 2020

Gilvoth wrote: »

hackdrag0n wrote: »

Let's not forget invigorating. At least training might be useful to some people. Invigorating is trash for everyone.

that is completely false.
there are many people (myself included) that have good uses for that invigorating trait.

Yes absolutely! Crafters need this trait to complete all research.

Hapexamendios · March 2020

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Some people may use training gear to level up skills, different morph, gain CP. That coupled with the fact we can change traits pretty at will makes this a non-issue.

collecting crystals to transmute in pve is unbelievably tedious

That's why I operate a Cyrodil Castle repair service. Tier one rewards for a 30 day campaigns net you 50 crystals. Takes 25k AP to get their. Not too hard even for someone like me who hates PvP.

SeaUnicorn · March 2020

And invigorating...