Grianasteri wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

What are we expecting from this?

Frankly, I smell nerfs. People have been crutching on Mist Form and Undeath for awhile. I wouldn't be surprised if the whole skill line was changed to mirror werewolf, where there is a transformation ultimate, and the active skills from the line are only available while transformed.

I am expecting a fully fledged Vampire skill line. Certainly not just some tweeks to the existing skills/passives - that would be a massive disappointment and fail for the DLC from the start.

The idea that Vampirism will be nerfed, in a DLC built around Vampire themes, seems ridiculous. If they did that it could end up being the biggest DLC fail in ESO history to date.

Vampire rework is a part of the base game though.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

They are also reversing how feeding works so that feeding makes your vampiric powers stronger (advancing you in the stages instead of resetting you). You will also still look your ugliest at your most powerful...

That...is just stupid.
Flat out, no holds barred, stupid.

The whole point of the desiccated, exsanguinated, pale and purple-veined appearance, was to reflect what undeath LOOKS LIKE.
So theyre going to make you MORE ugly when you're fully fed?
That's counter to any and all vampire lore just about anywhere in human fictional history, with few exceptions noted below for context (or lack thereof)

1. Can't justify it from Nosferatu, because we have absolutely no context regarding how hungry, or even if hunger mattered, for the vampire depicted in that film.
2. Can't reference Eli Damaskinos from Blade 2, because vampires in Blade were not supernatural, they were biological mutants who still aged, albeit slowly.
3. Twilight is out because the author themselves was quoted as "knowing nothing about vampire fiction", prior to writing the series, and while all the vampires of that lore had a pale complexion, the only aspect about them that changed with their hunger/diet was the color of their eyes.

What Z0$ is doing is fundamentally "rebooting" Vampires in Elder Scrolls Lore, at the behest of their constituents.
Be advised, the content below is intended to be direct and harsh criticism, so proceed at your own risk.

CASP3R421 wrote: »

how tf you crutch a passive?

Lol dude honestly if they nerf something ELSE that i play with i’m just gonna leave. Every time i come back and play a character something about it becomes useless and then i make a new ungimped one. Cough Cough DOT nerf. Why do devs insist on listening to the Pvp edgelords. I mean warlords?

OmniDo wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

They are also reversing how feeding works so that feeding makes your vampiric powers stronger (advancing you in the stages instead of resetting you). You will also still look your ugliest at your most powerful...

That...is just stupid.
Flat out, no hold barred, stupid.

The whole point of the desiccated, exsanguinated, pale and purple-veined appearance, was to reflect what undeath LOOKS LIKE.
So theyre going to make you MORE ugly when you're fully fed?
That's counter to any and all vampire lore just about anywhere in human fictional history, with few exceptions noted below for context (or lack thereof)

1. Can't justify it from Nosferatu, because we have absolutely no context regarding how hungry, or even if hunger mattered, for the vampire depicted in that film.
2. Can't reference Eli Damaskinos from Blade 2, because vampires in Blade were not supernatural, they were biological mutants who still aged, albeit slowly.
3. Twilight is out because the author themselves was quoted as "knowing nothing about vampire fiction", prior to writing the series, and while all the vampires of that lore had a pale complexion, the only aspect about them that changed with their hunger/diet was the color of their eyes.

What Z0$ is doing is fundamentally "rebooting" Vampires in Elder Scrolls Lore, at the behest of their constituents.
Be advised, the content below is intended to be direct and harsh criticism, so proceed at your own risk.

You might as well no longer call this game Elder Scrolls, more like Elder Trolls or Elder Snowflakes, because these folks are the ones influencing and changing the environment, just because they don't like it.
Well too bad.
That's the way the story goes.
You don't go and rewrite history just because you don't like the facts, and if you do, you deserve the full brunt and force of ridicule, shame, and disgust, just for your impertinence alone.

My sincere feedback to anyone who is promoting these changes can be nothing less than both brutal and simple:
I hate it, which consequently makes it very difficult not to simultaneously hate any of you who either suggested, and/or support it, too.

Quit ****ing up the game for many who enjoy it exactly the way it is.
And no, you don't get to use justifications like: "Well things change."
Yeah, they do, and often for the worse when stupidity is involved.

You don't like the way Elder Scrolls Vampires are? Don't play one, period.
And just stop it with the vampire passive crutch-excuses.
You can play this game just fine without being a vampire.
You do not have to rely on the mathematical META which reflects a statistically insignificant margin of overall impact.
The developers did not build their game, nor its content, with a requirement for all characters to be vampires in order to complete said content.

Again, I think I'll take the word of the lore master over some rando on the internet. Sorry. But they say the lore is sound, so it is.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

OmniDo wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

They are also reversing how feeding works so that feeding makes your vampiric powers stronger (advancing you in the stages instead of resetting you). You will also still look your ugliest at your most powerful...

That...is just stupid.
Flat out, no hold barred, stupid.

The whole point of the desiccated, exsanguinated, pale and purple-veined appearance, was to reflect what undeath LOOKS LIKE.
So theyre going to make you MORE ugly when you're fully fed?
That's counter to any and all vampire lore just about anywhere in human fictional history, with few exceptions noted below for context (or lack thereof)

1. Can't justify it from Nosferatu, because we have absolutely no context regarding how hungry, or even if hunger mattered, for the vampire depicted in that film.
2. Can't reference Eli Damaskinos from Blade 2, because vampires in Blade were not supernatural, they were biological mutants who still aged, albeit slowly.
3. Twilight is out because the author themselves was quoted as "knowing nothing about vampire fiction", prior to writing the series, and while all the vampires of that lore had a pale complexion, the only aspect about them that changed with their hunger/diet was the color of their eyes.

What Z0$ is doing is fundamentally "rebooting" Vampires in Elder Scrolls Lore, at the behest of their constituents.
Be advised, the content below is intended to be direct and harsh criticism, so proceed at your own risk.

You might as well no longer call this game Elder Scrolls, more like Elder Trolls or Elder Snowflakes, because these folks are the ones influencing and changing the environment, just because they don't like it.
Well too bad.
That's the way the story goes.
You don't go and rewrite history just because you don't like the facts, and if you do, you deserve the full brunt and force of ridicule, shame, and disgust, just for your impertinence alone.

My sincere feedback to anyone who is promoting these changes can be nothing less than both brutal and simple:
I hate it, which consequently makes it very difficult not to simultaneously hate any of you who either suggested, and/or support it, too.

Quit ****ing up the game for many who enjoy it exactly the way it is.
And no, you don't get to use justifications like: "Well things change."
Yeah, they do, and often for the worse when stupidity is involved.

You don't like the way Elder Scrolls Vampires are? Don't play one, period.
And just stop it with the vampire passive crutch-excuses.
You can play this game just fine without being a vampire.
You do not have to rely on the mathematical META which reflects a statistically insignificant margin of overall impact.
The developers did not build their game, nor its content, with a requirement for all characters to be vampires in order to complete said content.

@OmniDo You are correct and I made a thread on that topic already offering a lorefriendly alternative that achieves the same goals ZOS wants to achieve with that reversal but there was just no support for it, but a ton of people with no idea about TES lore coming in and saying they like that change because that's "how it's supposed to be".
The few people who do know the lore but are still in favor of it had a discussion about the nature of vampirism and whether this is a retcon of ESO's strand of vampirism or not and how all that actually works.

If you want to check it out, the link is here.

"There's no support for it"

Yeah sure bud, that's why Lamae tells you to go F E E D and G E T S T R O N G E R as @Thevampirenight has told you countless times. Pretty sure she wouldn't tell you this if you were meant to get weaker as you feed....lol. Not to mention people have brought up COUNTLESS things to support the change, you've just (snip) overlooked what these people have said in favor of pushing your own (snip) idea of what the lore "should" be.

(snip)Personally, I can't wait to see people like you forced to deal with the vampire changes (snip)

(edited for baiting)

Integral1900 wrote: »

They are going to get rid of that gorgeous bat swarm ultimate aren’t they... might not be hard hitting but it’s soooo unbearably cool to watch. Now we get to turn into some gormless looking man bat 🤮

Sigh........

Dont worry! We'll probably be getting bat swarm in some other way.

My personal prediction is they're going to change it into a mobility teleport ability similar to what we saw in the trailer. So you'll now be able to *actually* turn into a swarm of bats!

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

OmniDo wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

They are also reversing how feeding works so that feeding makes your vampiric powers stronger (advancing you in the stages instead of resetting you). You will also still look your ugliest at your most powerful...

That...is just stupid.
Flat out, no hold barred, stupid.

The whole point of the desiccated, exsanguinated, pale and purple-veined appearance, was to reflect what undeath LOOKS LIKE.
So theyre going to make you MORE ugly when you're fully fed?
That's counter to any and all vampire lore just about anywhere in human fictional history, with few exceptions noted below for context (or lack thereof)

1. Can't justify it from Nosferatu, because we have absolutely no context regarding how hungry, or even if hunger mattered, for the vampire depicted in that film.
2. Can't reference Eli Damaskinos from Blade 2, because vampires in Blade were not supernatural, they were biological mutants who still aged, albeit slowly.
3. Twilight is out because the author themselves was quoted as "knowing nothing about vampire fiction", prior to writing the series, and while all the vampires of that lore had a pale complexion, the only aspect about them that changed with their hunger/diet was the color of their eyes.

What Z0$ is doing is fundamentally "rebooting" Vampires in Elder Scrolls Lore, at the behest of their constituents.
Be advised, the content below is intended to be direct and harsh criticism, so proceed at your own risk.

You might as well no longer call this game Elder Scrolls, more like Elder Trolls or Elder Snowflakes, because these folks are the ones influencing and changing the environment, just because they don't like it.
Well too bad.
That's the way the story goes.
You don't go and rewrite history just because you don't like the facts, and if you do, you deserve the full brunt and force of ridicule, shame, and disgust, just for your impertinence alone.

My sincere feedback to anyone who is promoting these changes can be nothing less than both brutal and simple:
I hate it, which consequently makes it very difficult not to simultaneously hate any of you who either suggested, and/or support it, too.

Quit ****ing up the game for many who enjoy it exactly the way it is.
And no, you don't get to use justifications like: "Well things change."
Yeah, they do, and often for the worse when stupidity is involved.

You don't like the way Elder Scrolls Vampires are? Don't play one, period.
And just stop it with the vampire passive crutch-excuses.
You can play this game just fine without being a vampire.
You do not have to rely on the mathematical META which reflects a statistically insignificant margin of overall impact.
The developers did not build their game, nor its content, with a requirement for all characters to be vampires in order to complete said content.

@OmniDo You are correct and I made a thread on that topic already offering a lorefriendly alternative that achieves the same goals ZOS wants to achieve with that reversal but there was just no support for it, but a ton of people with no idea about TES lore coming in and saying they like that change because that's "how it's supposed to be".
The few people who do know the lore but are still in favor of it had a discussion about the nature of vampirism and whether this is a retcon of ESO's strand of vampirism or not and how all that actually works.

If you want to check it out, the link is here.

"There's no support for it"

Yeah sure bud, that's why Lamae tells you to go F E E D and G E T S T R O N G E R as @Thevampirenight has told you countless times. Pretty sure she wouldn't tell you this if you were meant to get weaker as you feed....lol. Not to mention people have brought up COUNTLESS things to support the change, you've just seemingly conveniently forgotten or overlooked what these people have said in favor of pushing your own delusioned idea of what the lore "should" be.

But sure, let's keep pretending you're totally right. Personally, I can't wait to see people like you forced to deal with the vampire changes all grumpily. It'll be fantastic and enjoyable.

Learn to read. I was talking about my own suggestion.
But thanks that you believe in me and think there is support for it!!!

If that's how you also read the lore, I'm not surprised you are actually supporting the reversal. You conveniently forgot about the counter arguments I brought up as well it seems.

Ah, I'll be honest I was actually tossed up between whether or not you were talking about no support for your idea or for the lore aspect of the feeding reversal. That is a bit on me and I apologize, the wording in your statement made it seem like it could go either way so I took a 50/50.

I'll learn to read when you learn to be more specific in your statements.

And nah, I haven't forgotten about your counter arguments, it's just if you're willing to look past and ignore the countless reasons people have given for the change, then the same should be done to you, no?

Sorry, but my wording was very precise and that is not "a bit" on you, that is entirely on you.
I would not have used the word "but" if I was referring to ZOS' idea, because then I would have celebrated that fact. By using "but" I was clearly making it sound like something I wasn't happy with and considering the context and nature of my proposal it's clear where I am standing on the subject and thus what "but" implies. I would have used "as" in its place if I was trying to imply that my suggestion aligns with and received said support, that was supposedly lacking for ZOS' approach.

And since you wish to dig up that old discussion again "FEED AND GET STRONGER" doesn't mean "get stronger by feeding". That's a big difference. Of course it could mean get stronger by feeding, but that's not a given. What is a given is that feeding did not make you stronger when that dialogue was written. Getting stronger is what made you stronger and feeding is what sated your hunger.
The only argument I've actually been dismissing is the one case of a vampire in Elsweyr who was apparently getting weaker from not feeding but I've been dismissing that argument on the grounds that this would be the same as proving a claim only using the claim itself, as this lore was written by the new lore master, whose words are at trial here.

No, your wording wasn't very precise, sorry to burst your bubble. "ZOS wants to achieve with that reversal but there was just no support for it" this could mean literally no support for your argument or for the reversal, especially if read at a glance. Also take into consideration that I knew who I was dealing with when reading this, I didn't expect you to actually admit your idea has no support, tbh. Considering in the past you've tried so very hard to make it seem like you aren't in the minority here.

And the argument of the vampire in Elsweyr is a very good one, honestly. The lore master's words aren't on trial here, which is what I don't think you understand. He is literally getting paid a yearly salary to know Elder Scrolls lore and to make sure things that are implemented fit said lore. His lore isn't "on trial" it **literally** is the lore. I actually really liked that quest in Elsweyr and thought the chick we ended up helping was foolish.

Now I don't know about you, but again I would rather take what he says is lore over some random guy on the internet that thinks he knows more about things than the dude whose job is literally based off of getting the lore as right as can be.

Sure, you yourself can have whatever complaints you want and see the lore the way you choose to see it, but at the end of the day what the lore master says goes. Nothing you or I can do about it and nothing will be done about it.

I gave up on things sticking strictly to what we know as "TES LORE" when the necromancer class has less summons than the sorcerer and when they're busy conjuring graveyards and using scythes, things Necromancers don't do. Oh, and bone armor. An ability literally ripped from diablo 3's necro. It's a sad day when necromancers are better healers than they are magicka dps...

I want to put emphasis on that I understand your frustration, it is similar to my frustration with the Necromancer class. But I've come to terms that things most likely aren't going to change.