Greymoor: "A rework of the Vampire Skill Line"

ShadowHvo

Noxavian wrote: »

There's a bit of a difference than getting an ENTIRE class wrong and being upsetti spahgetti about vamps having to feed.

And I'm sorry that vamps having to feed goes so hard against what you love about Elder Scrolls. If you aren't open to changes here and there, I'd recommend sticking strictly to the single player games and maybe not being so invested in the lore of the place.

This quote right here truly displays the fact that you've no idea why I, and clearly many others, have a very big issue with these changes.

We don't hate the changes because they give an incentive to feed, we hate the changes because they give the wrong incentive to feed, and they do it in a way that completely breaks the current iteration of how vampirism function.

They rid vampirism of the cool and unique duality that Elder Scrolls, and many of their vampire fans, hold dear.

Noxavian wrote: »

If you cannot accept that lore can change and isn't set in stone and whine when something relatively small is adjusted for better gameplay, then are you really a fan? Or just a lore elitist who likes to think they know everything and hates the thought of having to learn something new? Being a fan of Elder Scrolls also involves, you guessed it, being fine with lore adjustments. Not saying to follow all lore changes blindly, but when something like this is made to make gameplay better and to provide us with something we haven't had before, I don't think that's a hill worth dying on. It's still Elder Scrolls, it's sad that you don't understand that.


You remind me a lot of my friend that straight up won't play ESO despite being the biggest Elder Scrolls fan I know because he thinks the game breaks lore. Instead of viewing the game as a chance to experience new lore, he chooses to focus on things he personally thinks doesn't fit the lore.

Contrary to what you think, friend, I love Elder Scrolls. It's my favorite setting and lore for any video game and has provided me with many childhood memories.

However, because I love the game so much, I'm open to SOME changes in the lore to experience something new. I'm not saying we should be open to say them going as far as adding a shout skill line or something (a ridiculous idea), but with small things like vamp feeding it'll be fine.

Who knows, maybe you'll like how they play? It's a small change and shouldn't effect how you view Elder Scrolls, is more or less what im getting at.

The same argument could be said of your Necromancer, and yet you too, complained of that.

Be it one skill-line, or three. It matters little.

We will not see eye to eye, because I care about the unique representation of vampirism that the Elder Scrolls have had for the last 3 iterations, and I loved the ones prior to that even more.

This change is not an improvement in my eyes, but an utter ruination of what it once was. It is by definition a retcon of Noxiphilic Sanguivoria, and there is no way around that. Not to mention that they're turning it into a literal Volkihar ripoff, ridding it and Sanguinare Vampiris of their unique identities.

If it had been a new bloodline or strain entirely, sure I could live with that as merely a new addition to the lore. But that is not the case.

ShadowHvo

Noxavian wrote: »

Uh oh @ShadowHvo @Ratzkifal you guys seeing this? It looks like even lore wise vampire feeding hasn't always been a consistent like you seem to think. Could it be that it...is able to be changed?

Why are you this ignorant?

Read every post history of mine since the announcement of this new chapter, and you'll see that neither I, nor Ratzkifal, has ever claimed that it were always the same.

Quite the opposite in fact, both he and I (In the posts of his I've seen) have always written it plainly as originating from Oblivion.

But sure, keep pumpin' that narcissism.

darthgummibear_ESO

ShadowHvo wrote: »

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

You will also still look your ugliest at your most powerful because that is something you give up in turn.

This has yet to be confirmed one way or the other.

Incorrect.

Rich said it in the interview with Bethesda_DE. He said it in plain english too, so it wasn't a translation error.

Again, I was referring to the visual aspect, not changing the order of the stages.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Thevampirenight wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

OmniDo wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

They are also reversing how feeding works so that feeding makes your vampiric powers stronger (advancing you in the stages instead of resetting you). You will also still look your ugliest at your most powerful...

That...is just stupid.
Flat out, no holds barred, stupid.

The whole point of the desiccated, exsanguinated, pale and purple-veined appearance, was to reflect what undeath LOOKS LIKE.
So theyre going to make you MORE ugly when you're fully fed?
That's counter to any and all vampire lore just about anywhere in human fictional history, with few exceptions noted below for context (or lack thereof)

1. Can't justify it from Nosferatu, because we have absolutely no context regarding how hungry, or even if hunger mattered, for the vampire depicted in that film.
2. Can't reference Eli Damaskinos from Blade 2, because vampires in Blade were not supernatural, they were biological mutants who still aged, albeit slowly.
3. Twilight is out because the author themselves was quoted as "knowing nothing about vampire fiction", prior to writing the series, and while all the vampires of that lore had a pale complexion, the only aspect about them that changed with their hunger/diet was the color of their eyes.

What Z0$ is doing is fundamentally "rebooting" Vampires in Elder Scrolls Lore, at the behest of their constituents.
Be advised, the content below is intended to be direct and harsh criticism, so proceed at your own risk.

You might as well no longer call this game Elder Scrolls, more like Elder Trolls or Elder Snowflakes, because these folks are the ones influencing and changing the environment, just because they don't like it.
Well too bad.
That's the way the story goes.
You don't go and rewrite history just because you don't like the facts, and if you do, you deserve the full brunt and force of ridicule, shame, and disgust, just for your impertinence alone.

My sincere feedback to anyone who is promoting these changes can be nothing less than both brutal and simple:
I hate it, which consequently makes it very difficult not to simultaneously hate any of you who either suggested, and/or support it, too.

Quit ****ing up the game for many who enjoy it exactly the way it is.
And no, you don't get to use justifications like: "Well things change."
Yeah, they do, and often for the worse when stupidity is involved.

You don't like the way Elder Scrolls Vampires are? Don't play one, period.
And just stop it with the vampire passive crutch-excuses.
You can play this game just fine without being a vampire.
You do not have to rely on the mathematical META which reflects a statistically insignificant margin of overall impact.
The developers did not build their game, nor its content, with a requirement for all characters to be vampires in order to complete said content.

In a way it would be original when it comes to Vampires but I think it would still look a lot like Sith corruption from Swtor. What is unique about Elder Scrolls Vampires is there isn't just one vampire archtype there is many archtypes of vampire. Though here is how I would prefer them to do it. Do a toggle maybe one that allows you as a vampire to feed and look more mortal or feed and look more undead. But not a toggle that makes you look mortal. Can use a skin for that.

The vampirism we have in the game right now is based off the https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Cyrodiil_Vampyrum_Order feeding to be more mortal or not feeding to be more powerful was based off this very unique vampire clan.
Porphyric Hemophilia- is the vampire disease of both Morrowind and Oblivion. Now there is five variations. The Cyrodiil Vampyrum Order, Berne, Audane, Quarra and Outcast vampires. The other four are unique variations in Morrowind of the Porphyric Hemophilia disease. But unlike the Cyrodiil Porphyric Hemophilia. They are not able to blend in very well. Like at all.
The best example of this is https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Vicente_Valtieri

He got his vampirism in Morrowind meaning hes one of the four vampire archtypes seen in Morrowind. At some point he Joins the Dark Brotherhoood. It can be assumed because he was turned by a Morrowind vampire he is unable to blend in even when well fed and he doesn't lose his vampiric power if he feeds. Though he can turn you into a cyrodiil style vampire because your in Cyrodiil you are able to have that ability when he himself can't have that. That is my theory on that.

Since technically its unique to the Cyrodiil Vampyrum Order and since Porphyric Hemophilia is the same disease but runs in different vampire family blood lines. But its only the Cyrodiil Vampires that have that unique four way stage system. They can blend in but it in turn weakens them. They are able to withstand sunlight because they feed but at the same time grow weaker as a vampire. That is the cost of this boon. They either starve to become powerful or feed to blend in. This boon was granted by Clavicus Vile the one responsible for the four stage vampire system, his finger prints in Elder Scrolls 5 are very clearly there as well with the Volkihar Vampires. They similar atttibutes to Cyrodiil vampires and because an entire cave of vampires worshiped him and went to him not Molag Bal to cure their vampirism. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Haemar's_Shame

Imperial society has great influence on Tamriel, the Cyrodiil Vampires unique ability to blend in wasn't unnoticed by vampire clans who wanted the same treatment. Clavicus Vile thus could have altered the Volkihar clan, but at a cost in immortal blood they are said to live beneath the ice of frozen lakes. Be able to freeze the blood in peoples with their breath. Among other things, such a deal likely cost them those abilities to replace them with abilties that help them blend in but the deal wasn't as good as the Cyrodiil Vampires so they able to blend in but its more noticeable and they don't get full sunlight immunity.

However the populace can't see the bat like buffy like vampire faces the Volkihar Vampires had. So they blend in a lot better. So they did get something from it. But at the cost of still either having to be well fed and sated and be weaker or at the cost of being powerful but very thirsty. Clavicus Vile gives some of what people want but it always comes with a catch.

Clavicus Vile and Hircine are what I considered more Rival princes or the polar opposites of the other here is why. Like the Imperials seems to be at times both self serving, but also is against threats to the general public. So is Clavicus Vile more like that greedy merchant that sets up shop and says things for bargains but the items are not what people expect. So he is the polar opposite of Hircine as Hircine is More Primal but more honorable and always keeps his bargins. Clavicus Vile is cosmopolitan and does deals with a catch. Cosmopolitan societies tend to hate threats to the General Public. Clavicus Vile sends out mortals at times to deal with threats to the General Public.

Werewolves and Hircine being more primal tend to be a threat to society. Vampires too but he curbs their blood lust so they can blend in better and that helps make them less of a threat. Vampires tend to be more Cosmopolitan in most Genres while Werewolves more primal in smaller villages. This is how it works in Vtm and that is how it works with the Cyrodiil.So the fact that the in game strain has the same Clavicus Vile touch. Is just copy and paste and ruining the uniqueness of clans that made bargains with Clavicus Vile to gain that ability. Glad they are changing it for that reason.

Now onto Hircine, In Eso lore the vampire strain we have is said to have been altered with a backroom deal between Hircine and Molag Bal. Here is my theory of how that went down.
I think it has to do with the Rivalry of Molag Bal and Meridia, Molag Bal likely wanted to see all his Rivals Influence and followers dead and gone. Now that is where this guy comes in. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Faolchu_the_Changeling
Now he was no normal werewolf, he was immune to everything all types of magic, all types of physical damage and also Silver given silver is a known werewolf weakness. He was literally like the Achilles of Elder Scrolls.

An Unstoppable General that couldn't be slain a worst nightmare scenario for any that come across him. Now he only had one vulnerability and that was fire. Fire made him vulnerable to normal damage as it was the only way to defeat him is if you get him ontop of a pile of fire. Now werewolves don't work normally work like that Hircine is the type that gives mortals a better chance of over coming his creations because he loves the hunter/prey dynamic so makes werewolves both he wouldn't make them invincible. He also seems to be very protective of his children and wants to claim them so they live in his realm after death. Faolchu_the_Changeling likely wanted more, he likely wanted to wipe out the Aylieds completely and finish the job that Pelinal couldn't. Becoming a hero the is idolized by many in the Empire. Just like the genocidal robot from the future.

He wanted to be more then just a Hircine pup he wanted to dominate and destroy his foes. So he went to Molag bal and Molag Bal couldn't give him what he wanted. Werewolves fall under the domain of Hircine. But Molag Bal might have been intrigued by the prospect another Pelinal that can not only kill off all the Ayleids but also destroy Meridias Influence completely. That is when Molag bal goes to Hircine like he does with Vaermina to get the Nerevarine the cure to Vampirism . Now that is possibly where the back room deal took place. When it happened Molag Bal likely Bargained a high price to be able to do it. He bargained away Lamae and his claim over the first vampire strain to Hircine and thus Molag Bal the ability to make Elder Scrolls Werewolf Achilles a force to be reckoned with.

However he couldn't make him completely immune to everything so he had one weakness. Because at the time it might not be widely used becoming vulnerable when standing in flame. However Mortals discovered his weakness and were able to kill him. However Molag Bal had Angof the gravesinger bring him from the dead and as undead he still had that invulnerability he had in life. Because of the deal Faolchu got pulled into Coldhabour this also explains why Hircine didn't claim him and Molag Bal did. Because he belonged to Molag Bal and he torments him for allowing his efforts to be in vain with fire.

Now unlike Clavicus Vile who requires starving oneself to be more powerful when it comes to vampires, Hircine when it comes to his werewolves requires them to hunt prey and feast to maintain the power of the werewolf form. Otherwise it gets weaker if you don't hunt in Morrowind you grow weaker and lose health coming morning.Which was not done in Eso or Skyrim but instead had to feed to keep the form up.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Bloodmoon:Werewolf

With Hircine with a clan he alters he would make them like the werewolf they would have to feed and hunt to access their power. You have to hunt and feed and that is how Hircine would do it. As he wants vampires to hunt and feed. But if they use their abilties to much he would then requires them to feed more to regain that power that is the new vampirsm. That is the Hircine Touch. They are finally getting rid of Clavicus Vile style Vampirisim and replacing it with it Hircine Style Vampirsm as it should have been from the very beginning.

The whole Clavicus Vile vamprism this game had from the start was lore breaking anyways. At least they are fixing it. As Lamae says herself, feed and grow powerful. Clavicus Vile altered the Cyrodiilic Porphyric Hemophilia and Skyrim Sanguinare Vampiris vampires. Hircine seems to have altered the Noxiphilic Sanguivoria vampires so they shouldn't have Clavicus style vampirism.

Reason why Vampires are more undead when they feed with the New vampire overhaul is because Hircine likely altered it to work like this. So this would be a Hircine Style Vampire strain.
Hope that helps to explain all of this and my take on how vampirsm helps people here understand why the new changes make sense.

Why would Molag Bal allow Hircine to effect the very first strain of Vampire?

Maybe he is the reason they can transform into a Vampire Lord and maybe the reason why they cannot control said transformation unlike the Volkihar Vampires because face it it's gonna have a time limit like Werewolf does.

Molag Bal created vampires to get at one of his rivals. Hes the type of prince that schemes and plots. Plots his domination's and conquests. Comes up with schemes and acts upon them. Most of his followers are expendable and only worth something if they proves themselves to him he hates failure. Making Bargains that benefit him he will do it. Even his children are expendable and if they disapoint them he has them killed or tortured for all time. If he does take souls, its more to personally torture them or make soul shrivens so he can continue on with whatever scheme that requires them. Then use the Souls for other purposes whether it be the anchors, or even as currency.

Vampires have Molags essense with in them and unless he has a magical artifact to control them. Like in the Orchard, they have the will to resist him. Its much easier to create Soul Shriven for his needs and the soul shriven serve as expendable slaves. That can work to complete Molag Bal's massive projects.
Daedra princes are beyond Mortal beliefs about them. As for why Molag Bal did the plane meld. There could be any number of reasons one he wanted to control Nirn, as he might have controled Lyg and another possibility here. His realm is all ruined, like trash dump, maybe trying to upgrade to better real estate that is better for him and gives him access to all kinds of new soul shrivens and souls to expand his power and holdings and give himself great bragging rights to his fellow princes.
Basically Molag Bal is the type of personality that has no respect for consent. He is after all the King of Ravage using Zenimax's Term for it.

He does what he wants whenever he chooses (( He's still bound by certain rules so he can't do it all the time just when he can get away with it.)) Once something has expended its use he discards or barters away for other things he does want and once he gets done with those he likely discards or trades. That is why its possible the Lamae blood line could have been traded because Daedric princes and daedra do trade and barter. As a Schemer Prince Molag Bal does it to advance his own goals and schemes this can be seen in Morrowind when he gets a vampire that wants to be cured. Requires the vampire take out his own daughter and some ice attronach so he can get a hold of them and torture them for all time. In Return he goes to the Daedric Prince of Nightmares and gets the Cure for vampirism if you do the cure quest. .

That is what he is willing to do, he could care less about the vampire he just wanted to torture his daughter. Would he sell or sacrifice his own children yes he would. Would he cure vampirsim to get access to a certain soul yes he would. Just like Harkon would murder his own Daughter just to take out the sun. Molag Bal will do anything to advance his schemes and that is how he operates. With that he concedes his control over that blood line if it benefits him to give it away he'll do it. He can create more hes got many vampire strains he has access to since he created many but not all of them but many of them.
He didn't create all vampire strains but hes the main source for the condition. So trading a few to his fellow princes isn't out of the question.

Molag Bals control over Vampirsm isn't very great one he's unable to cure the condition on his own. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:A_Cure_for_Vampirism
Nor is he able to take the Spirits of deceased vampires, going by Azuras Quest in Oblivion. So unlike Lycanthrope souls, Vampire souls are able to move on to where they see fit because once they are slain they are free from the curse. Still If they devoutly worship Molag Bal they can still end up in Coldhabour. Which I can see being the case with vampires like Harkon who likely ended up there.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Azura
Thank you, mortal. Their spirits are free, and henceforth, above my shrine, five bright candles shall burn forever in memory of their sacrifice. For your service, take this token, that your deeds might be entered in the Book of Fate.

Her bloodline must not be important then, it is almost as if she is not unique at all...

As for Hircine, it seems like a perfect legitimate reason as to why the Vampire Lord form could exist.

Thevampirenight

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

OmniDo wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

They are also reversing how feeding works so that feeding makes your vampiric powers stronger (advancing you in the stages instead of resetting you). You will also still look your ugliest at your most powerful...

That...is just stupid.
Flat out, no holds barred, stupid.

The whole point of the desiccated, exsanguinated, pale and purple-veined appearance, was to reflect what undeath LOOKS LIKE.
So theyre going to make you MORE ugly when you're fully fed?
That's counter to any and all vampire lore just about anywhere in human fictional history, with few exceptions noted below for context (or lack thereof)

1. Can't justify it from Nosferatu, because we have absolutely no context regarding how hungry, or even if hunger mattered, for the vampire depicted in that film.
2. Can't reference Eli Damaskinos from Blade 2, because vampires in Blade were not supernatural, they were biological mutants who still aged, albeit slowly.
3. Twilight is out because the author themselves was quoted as "knowing nothing about vampire fiction", prior to writing the series, and while all the vampires of that lore had a pale complexion, the only aspect about them that changed with their hunger/diet was the color of their eyes.

What Z0$ is doing is fundamentally "rebooting" Vampires in Elder Scrolls Lore, at the behest of their constituents.
Be advised, the content below is intended to be direct and harsh criticism, so proceed at your own risk.

You might as well no longer call this game Elder Scrolls, more like Elder Trolls or Elder Snowflakes, because these folks are the ones influencing and changing the environment, just because they don't like it.
Well too bad.
That's the way the story goes.
You don't go and rewrite history just because you don't like the facts, and if you do, you deserve the full brunt and force of ridicule, shame, and disgust, just for your impertinence alone.

My sincere feedback to anyone who is promoting these changes can be nothing less than both brutal and simple:
I hate it, which consequently makes it very difficult not to simultaneously hate any of you who either suggested, and/or support it, too.

Quit ****ing up the game for many who enjoy it exactly the way it is.
And no, you don't get to use justifications like: "Well things change."
Yeah, they do, and often for the worse when stupidity is involved.

You don't like the way Elder Scrolls Vampires are? Don't play one, period.
And just stop it with the vampire passive crutch-excuses.
You can play this game just fine without being a vampire.
You do not have to rely on the mathematical META which reflects a statistically insignificant margin of overall impact.
The developers did not build their game, nor its content, with a requirement for all characters to be vampires in order to complete said content.

In a way it would be original when it comes to Vampires but I think it would still look a lot like Sith corruption from Swtor. What is unique about Elder Scrolls Vampires is there isn't just one vampire archtype there is many archtypes of vampire. Though here is how I would prefer them to do it. Do a toggle maybe one that allows you as a vampire to feed and look more mortal or feed and look more undead. But not a toggle that makes you look mortal. Can use a skin for that.

The vampirism we have in the game right now is based off the https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Cyrodiil_Vampyrum_Order feeding to be more mortal or not feeding to be more powerful was based off this very unique vampire clan.
Porphyric Hemophilia- is the vampire disease of both Morrowind and Oblivion. Now there is five variations. The Cyrodiil Vampyrum Order, Berne, Audane, Quarra and Outcast vampires. The other four are unique variations in Morrowind of the Porphyric Hemophilia disease. But unlike the Cyrodiil Porphyric Hemophilia. They are not able to blend in very well. Like at all.
The best example of this is https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Vicente_Valtieri

He got his vampirism in Morrowind meaning hes one of the four vampire archtypes seen in Morrowind. At some point he Joins the Dark Brotherhoood. It can be assumed because he was turned by a Morrowind vampire he is unable to blend in even when well fed and he doesn't lose his vampiric power if he feeds. Though he can turn you into a cyrodiil style vampire because your in Cyrodiil you are able to have that ability when he himself can't have that. That is my theory on that.

Since technically its unique to the Cyrodiil Vampyrum Order and since Porphyric Hemophilia is the same disease but runs in different vampire family blood lines. But its only the Cyrodiil Vampires that have that unique four way stage system. They can blend in but it in turn weakens them. They are able to withstand sunlight because they feed but at the same time grow weaker as a vampire. That is the cost of this boon. They either starve to become powerful or feed to blend in. This boon was granted by Clavicus Vile the one responsible for the four stage vampire system, his finger prints in Elder Scrolls 5 are very clearly there as well with the Volkihar Vampires. They similar atttibutes to Cyrodiil vampires and because an entire cave of vampires worshiped him and went to him not Molag Bal to cure their vampirism. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Haemar's_Shame

Imperial society has great influence on Tamriel, the Cyrodiil Vampires unique ability to blend in wasn't unnoticed by vampire clans who wanted the same treatment. Clavicus Vile thus could have altered the Volkihar clan, but at a cost in immortal blood they are said to live beneath the ice of frozen lakes. Be able to freeze the blood in peoples with their breath. Among other things, such a deal likely cost them those abilities to replace them with abilties that help them blend in but the deal wasn't as good as the Cyrodiil Vampires so they able to blend in but its more noticeable and they don't get full sunlight immunity.

However the populace can't see the bat like buffy like vampire faces the Volkihar Vampires had. So they blend in a lot better. So they did get something from it. But at the cost of still either having to be well fed and sated and be weaker or at the cost of being powerful but very thirsty. Clavicus Vile gives some of what people want but it always comes with a catch.

Clavicus Vile and Hircine are what I considered more Rival princes or the polar opposites of the other here is why. Like the Imperials seems to be at times both self serving, but also is against threats to the general public. So is Clavicus Vile more like that greedy merchant that sets up shop and says things for bargains but the items are not what people expect. So he is the polar opposite of Hircine as Hircine is More Primal but more honorable and always keeps his bargins. Clavicus Vile is cosmopolitan and does deals with a catch. Cosmopolitan societies tend to hate threats to the General Public. Clavicus Vile sends out mortals at times to deal with threats to the General Public.

Werewolves and Hircine being more primal tend to be a threat to society. Vampires too but he curbs their blood lust so they can blend in better and that helps make them less of a threat. Vampires tend to be more Cosmopolitan in most Genres while Werewolves more primal in smaller villages. This is how it works in Vtm and that is how it works with the Cyrodiil.So the fact that the in game strain has the same Clavicus Vile touch. Is just copy and paste and ruining the uniqueness of clans that made bargains with Clavicus Vile to gain that ability. Glad they are changing it for that reason.

Now onto Hircine, In Eso lore the vampire strain we have is said to have been altered with a backroom deal between Hircine and Molag Bal. Here is my theory of how that went down.
I think it has to do with the Rivalry of Molag Bal and Meridia, Molag Bal likely wanted to see all his Rivals Influence and followers dead and gone. Now that is where this guy comes in. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Faolchu_the_Changeling
Now he was no normal werewolf, he was immune to everything all types of magic, all types of physical damage and also Silver given silver is a known werewolf weakness. He was literally like the Achilles of Elder Scrolls.

An Unstoppable General that couldn't be slain a worst nightmare scenario for any that come across him. Now he only had one vulnerability and that was fire. Fire made him vulnerable to normal damage as it was the only way to defeat him is if you get him ontop of a pile of fire. Now werewolves don't work normally work like that Hircine is the type that gives mortals a better chance of over coming his creations because he loves the hunter/prey dynamic so makes werewolves both he wouldn't make them invincible. He also seems to be very protective of his children and wants to claim them so they live in his realm after death. Faolchu_the_Changeling likely wanted more, he likely wanted to wipe out the Aylieds completely and finish the job that Pelinal couldn't. Becoming a hero the is idolized by many in the Empire. Just like the genocidal robot from the future.

He wanted to be more then just a Hircine pup he wanted to dominate and destroy his foes. So he went to Molag bal and Molag Bal couldn't give him what he wanted. Werewolves fall under the domain of Hircine. But Molag Bal might have been intrigued by the prospect another Pelinal that can not only kill off all the Ayleids but also destroy Meridias Influence completely. That is when Molag bal goes to Hircine like he does with Vaermina to get the Nerevarine the cure to Vampirism . Now that is possibly where the back room deal took place. When it happened Molag Bal likely Bargained a high price to be able to do it. He bargained away Lamae and his claim over the first vampire strain to Hircine and thus Molag Bal the ability to make Elder Scrolls Werewolf Achilles a force to be reckoned with.

However he couldn't make him completely immune to everything so he had one weakness. Because at the time it might not be widely used becoming vulnerable when standing in flame. However Mortals discovered his weakness and were able to kill him. However Molag Bal had Angof the gravesinger bring him from the dead and as undead he still had that invulnerability he had in life. Because of the deal Faolchu got pulled into Coldhabour this also explains why Hircine didn't claim him and Molag Bal did. Because he belonged to Molag Bal and he torments him for allowing his efforts to be in vain with fire.

Now unlike Clavicus Vile who requires starving oneself to be more powerful when it comes to vampires, Hircine when it comes to his werewolves requires them to hunt prey and feast to maintain the power of the werewolf form. Otherwise it gets weaker if you don't hunt in Morrowind you grow weaker and lose health coming morning.Which was not done in Eso or Skyrim but instead had to feed to keep the form up.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Bloodmoon:Werewolf

With Hircine with a clan he alters he would make them like the werewolf they would have to feed and hunt to access their power. You have to hunt and feed and that is how Hircine would do it. As he wants vampires to hunt and feed. But if they use their abilties to much he would then requires them to feed more to regain that power that is the new vampirsm. That is the Hircine Touch. They are finally getting rid of Clavicus Vile style Vampirisim and replacing it with it Hircine Style Vampirsm as it should have been from the very beginning.

The whole Clavicus Vile vamprism this game had from the start was lore breaking anyways. At least they are fixing it. As Lamae says herself, feed and grow powerful. Clavicus Vile altered the Cyrodiilic Porphyric Hemophilia and Skyrim Sanguinare Vampiris vampires. Hircine seems to have altered the Noxiphilic Sanguivoria vampires so they shouldn't have Clavicus style vampirism.

Reason why Vampires are more undead when they feed with the New vampire overhaul is because Hircine likely altered it to work like this. So this would be a Hircine Style Vampire strain.
Hope that helps to explain all of this and my take on how vampirsm helps people here understand why the new changes make sense.

Why would Molag Bal allow Hircine to effect the very first strain of Vampire?

Maybe he is the reason they can transform into a Vampire Lord and maybe the reason why they cannot control said transformation unlike the Volkihar Vampires because face it it's gonna have a time limit like Werewolf does.

Molag Bal created vampires to get at one of his rivals. Hes the type of prince that schemes and plots. Plots his domination's and conquests. Comes up with schemes and acts upon them. Most of his followers are expendable and only worth something if they proves themselves to him he hates failure. Making Bargains that benefit him he will do it. Even his children are expendable and if they disapoint them he has them killed or tortured for all time. If he does take souls, its more to personally torture them or make soul shrivens so he can continue on with whatever scheme that requires them. Then use the Souls for other purposes whether it be the anchors, or even as currency.

Vampires have Molags essense with in them and unless he has a magical artifact to control them. Like in the Orchard, they have the will to resist him. Its much easier to create Soul Shriven for his needs and the soul shriven serve as expendable slaves. That can work to complete Molag Bal's massive projects.
Daedra princes are beyond Mortal beliefs about them. As for why Molag Bal did the plane meld. There could be any number of reasons one he wanted to control Nirn, as he might have controled Lyg and another possibility here. His realm is all ruined, like trash dump, maybe trying to upgrade to better real estate that is better for him and gives him access to all kinds of new soul shrivens and souls to expand his power and holdings and give himself great bragging rights to his fellow princes.
Basically Molag Bal is the type of personality that has no respect for consent. He is after all the King of Ravage using Zenimax's Term for it.

He does what he wants whenever he chooses (( He's still bound by certain rules so he can't do it all the time just when he can get away with it.)) Once something has expended its use he discards or barters away for other things he does want and once he gets done with those he likely discards or trades. That is why its possible the Lamae blood line could have been traded because Daedric princes and daedra do trade and barter. As a Schemer Prince Molag Bal does it to advance his own goals and schemes this can be seen in Morrowind when he gets a vampire that wants to be cured. Requires the vampire take out his own daughter and some ice attronach so he can get a hold of them and torture them for all time. In Return he goes to the Daedric Prince of Nightmares and gets the Cure for vampirism if you do the cure quest. .

That is what he is willing to do, he could care less about the vampire he just wanted to torture his daughter. Would he sell or sacrifice his own children yes he would. Would he cure vampirsim to get access to a certain soul yes he would. Just like Harkon would murder his own Daughter just to take out the sun. Molag Bal will do anything to advance his schemes and that is how he operates. With that he concedes his control over that blood line if it benefits him to give it away he'll do it. He can create more hes got many vampire strains he has access to since he created many but not all of them but many of them.
He didn't create all vampire strains but hes the main source for the condition. So trading a few to his fellow princes isn't out of the question.

Molag Bals control over Vampirsm isn't very great one he's unable to cure the condition on his own. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:A_Cure_for_Vampirism
Nor is he able to take the Spirits of deceased vampires, going by Azuras Quest in Oblivion. So unlike Lycanthrope souls, Vampire souls are able to move on to where they see fit because once they are slain they are free from the curse. Still If they devoutly worship Molag Bal they can still end up in Coldhabour. Which I can see being the case with vampires like Harkon who likely ended up there.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Azura
Thank you, mortal. Their spirits are free, and henceforth, above my shrine, five bright candles shall burn forever in memory of their sacrifice. For your service, take this token, that your deeds might be entered in the Book of Fate.

Her bloodline must not be important then, it is almost as if she is not unique at all...

As for Hircine, it seems like a perfect legitimate reason as to why the Vampire Lord form could exist.

Given his ability to grant people the ability to transform into things like Werebeasts and Manbeasts. He could be the reason why the player is able to do so. If it works where you have to use vampire drain or feed on humanoids to keep up the transformation. However Molag Bal did grant a similar Transformation to the Harkon Vampire Clan. However doubt they are going to use Hircine to Explain why they have that form.
I believe they are going to go with Lamae being the Mother of Vampires having the ability to grant any kind of Vampiric Ability.
Hircine's Role I believe will be how the new four way stage system will work. What @ShadowHvo does not seem to understand is the reason why the current four stage system exists to begin with. It isn't Molag Bal its Clavicus Vile who is responsible for this.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Manifesto_Cyrodiil_Vampyrum
On Our Dual Patrons:

To Kin-father Molag Bal, who brought forth the Bloodmatron Lamae to spite Arkay, we owe our existence, as do all vampires, though not all honor Him. For him we revel in the feast, and acknowledge the gift adrift in our veins. To patron Clavicus Vile, beacon o'er our affairs, we owe our successes and social stature. Our bond with Vile makes us unique among our kind, for his guidance steels our savage craving with reason and savvy. For him we live amidst mankind, and twist them to our will from offices of power.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Cyrodiil_Vampyrum_Order
The order honors its Dual Patrons: Molag Bal the Kin-father, who all vampires owe their existence to; and Clavicus Vile, who they owe for their successes and social stature, and who helps them control their blood craving.[1]
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Clavicus_Vile
Clavicus Vile purportedly granted the Cyrodiil Vampyrum Order the ability to blend into mortal society undetected.[4]

Basically the Morrowind Vampires had the same vampire disease as the Cyrodiil Vampires and they didn't have the Four Stage system.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Vampires
I know its very hard to take in @ShadowHvo and you don't like these changes. But the reason lore wise why the current four stage system exists is because of the Daedric Prince Clavicus Vile.

The Duality is still going to be there @ShadowHvo its just going to be a mirrored Duality. One you are less fed the more mortal you are. Overfed and your more monstrous and powerful. So its still a duality just mirrored and making better sense given Hircine's possible involvement in the Eso vampire strain. So I wouldn't worry about the duality being gone because its not. Its still very much there they are not removing it they are just flipping it.

ShadowHvo

Thevampirenight wrote: »

I know its very hard to take in @ShadowHvo and you don't like these changes. But the reason lore wise why the current four stage system exists is because of the Daedric Prince Clavicus Vile.

The Duality is still going to be there @ShadowHvo its just going to be a mirrored Duality. One you are less fed the more mortal you are. Overfed and your more monstrous and powerful. So its still a duality just mirrored and making better sense given Hircine's possible involvement in the Eso vampire strain. So I wouldn't worry about the duality being gone because its not. Its still very much there they are not removing it they are just flipping it.

It cannot be hard to take in when it isn't true entirely.

The Cyrodiil Vampyrum Order may consider Clavicus Vile a patron, and yet other strains and bloodlines can mask themselves within civil society too, and they have no contact with Clavicus Vile, to our knowledge.

Even more important, that book is written by a character in the Elder Scrolls, which also means that it is up for scrutiny. But the players personal experience, with whom and what they interact with, is not - because we see it first hand.

We see first hand several vampires who can mask themselves in civil society, and they have no pact with Clavicus Vile, to our knowledge.

I agree with you however, that the duality itself will not be entirely gone, as long as they keep to the way of monstrous = powerful and pretty/handsome = weaker but masked in civilization. But it is still a very unnecessary switchero that ultimately rids Elder Scrolls of its unique representation of vampirism, wherein a vampire does not feed to gain power, but to regain their humanity.

Thevampirenight

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

I know its very hard to take in @ShadowHvo and you don't like these changes. But the reason lore wise why the current four stage system exists is because of the Daedric Prince Clavicus Vile.

The Duality is still going to be there @ShadowHvo its just going to be a mirrored Duality. One you are less fed the more mortal you are. Overfed and your more monstrous and powerful. So its still a duality just mirrored and making better sense given Hircine's possible involvement in the Eso vampire strain. So I wouldn't worry about the duality being gone because its not. Its still very much there they are not removing it they are just flipping it.

It cannot be hard to take in when it isn't true entirely.

The Cyrodiil Vampyrum Order may consider Clavicus Vile a patron, and yet other strains and bloodlines can mask themselves within civil society too, and they have no contact with Clavicus Vile, to our knowledge.

Even more important, that book is written by a character in the Elder Scrolls, which also means that it is up for scrutiny. But the players personal experience, with whom and what they interact with, is not - because we see it first hand.

We see first hand several vampires who can mask themselves in civil society, and they have no pact with Clavicus Vile, to our knowledge.

I agree with you however, that the duality itself will not be entirely gone, as long as they keep to the way of monstrous = powerful and pretty/handsome = weaker but masked in civilization. But it is still a very unnecessary switchero that ultimately rids Elder Scrolls of its unique representation of vampirism, wherein a vampire does not feed to gain power, but to regain their humanity.

Actually the switch will make vampires of Elder scrolls just as unique. As I don't think there is other genres that have vampires grow more undead looking the more they feed and more mortal when they don't. That is typical elder scrolls. Most all the lore is written from the perspective of the characters in the games themselves. The former Lore Master left us this letter that explains this.
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/55715

Tamriel is an unusual fantasy world setting in that it was created over time by many different contributors rather than by one single vision. At some point, the folks at Bethesda Game Studios realized that, for an interactive world, that patchwork background was actually a virtue rather than a liability, something that should be recognized and incorporated into Tamriel’s design. So the brain trust decided that all of the Elder Scrolls world’s history, mythology, and culture—its lore, in short—would be delivered, not from on high, but always from the viewpoints of characters who inhabited the world they were describing. And these descriptions might vary, or even contradict each other, leaving it up to the players to decide what was and wasn’t true.
Tamriel is a world where all history, past and future, is described in the ever-shifting texts of the mysterious Elder Scrolls, which tell always of what might be rather than of what is.

So its up to us to determine what is true or not true. I believe Vile is more the one responsible for the Four stage system. They shouldn't be held down by one diagram of vampirism. They should make each strain unique and tell a story. As much as I dislike having to look ugly when fully fed at stage four I do appreciate they are trying to be more original (nothing really is these days since most everything is a remix and that includes stuff seen in Elder Scrolls) instead of just copying Cyrodiil vampirism. As each strain of vampirism should be unique and not work the same way. There is over 100 strains of vampirism after all. Each one should be able to stand out in some way.

You are right about there being other ways vampires can mask their condition other then Vile. One is illusion magic obviously another could be makeup, other ways include like using a mask or wearing a hood and covering most your body so people don't see what you truly look like. So there is several ways it can be done and I'm sure Vampires use all those methods they can find to blend into mortal society.

ShadowHvo

Vampires are an undead being regardless of their stage.

Also Twilight literally has their vampires operate like that. It may not be by appearance, but it is by behavior. Hell, Underworld too. Feeding = Power, and Starvation = Weak.

That is what ESO is turning it into, despite being the unique opposite.

Why do you bring that quote up again? We already mentioned it in the other thread literal weeks ago, and I still will not agree with you, because that also means that Thomas the Dwarven Tank Engine is canon, and it is not.

You may of course believe what you wish, but it is still conjecture. I also find it strange how you can say that you want it to be more unique, yet you support something that is a literal Volkihar / Sanguinare Vampiris ripoff.

EDIT: I otherwise agree with you, each strain SHOULD be unique, but that is not what they're doing with Noxiphilic Sanguvoria, they're making it less unique, and literally bastardizing it into a Volkihar with reverse feeding.

Noxavian

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

There's a bit of a difference than getting an ENTIRE class wrong and being upsetti spahgetti about vamps having to feed.

And I'm sorry that vamps having to feed goes so hard against what you love about Elder Scrolls. If you aren't open to changes here and there, I'd recommend sticking strictly to the single player games and maybe not being so invested in the lore of the place.

This quote right here truly displays the fact that you've no idea why I, and clearly many others, have a very big issue with these changes.

We don't hate the changes because they give an incentive to feed, we hate the changes because they give the wrong incentive to feed, and they do it in a way that completely breaks the current iteration of how vampirism function.

They rid vampirism of the cool and unique duality that Elder Scrolls, and many of their vampire fans, hold dear.

Noxavian wrote: »

If you cannot accept that lore can change and isn't set in stone and whine when something relatively small is adjusted for better gameplay, then are you really a fan? Or just a lore elitist who likes to think they know everything and hates the thought of having to learn something new? Being a fan of Elder Scrolls also involves, you guessed it, being fine with lore adjustments. Not saying to follow all lore changes blindly, but when something like this is made to make gameplay better and to provide us with something we haven't had before, I don't think that's a hill worth dying on. It's still Elder Scrolls, it's sad that you don't understand that.


You remind me a lot of my friend that straight up won't play ESO despite being the biggest Elder Scrolls fan I know because he thinks the game breaks lore. Instead of viewing the game as a chance to experience new lore, he chooses to focus on things he personally thinks doesn't fit the lore.

Contrary to what you think, friend, I love Elder Scrolls. It's my favorite setting and lore for any video game and has provided me with many childhood memories.

However, because I love the game so much, I'm open to SOME changes in the lore to experience something new. I'm not saying we should be open to say them going as far as adding a shout skill line or something (a ridiculous idea), but with small things like vamp feeding it'll be fine.

Who knows, maybe you'll like how they play? It's a small change and shouldn't effect how you view Elder Scrolls, is more or less what im getting at.

The same argument could be said of your Necromancer, and yet you too, complained of that.

Be it one skill-line, or three. It matters little.

We will not see eye to eye, because I care about the unique representation of vampirism that the Elder Scrolls have had for the last 3 iterations, and I loved the ones prior to that even more.

This change is not an improvement in my eyes, but an utter ruination of what it once was. It is by definition a retcon of Noxiphilic Sanguivoria, and there is no way around that. Not to mention that they're turning it into a literal Volkihar ripoff, ridding it and Sanguinare Vampiris of their unique identities.

If it had been a new bloodline or strain entirely, sure I could live with that as merely a new addition to the lore. But that is not the case.

(snip) if you think the current iteration of the skill line is unique and awesome, I'm sorry. And again, just because something is UNIQUE doesn't mean it's GOOD for gameplay, (snip). You've said how you'd be fine if this bloodline was a new one because it'd be new lore. What if I told you the current ESO bloodline IS a new bloodline that didn't exist before ESO? And what if I told you that means....you guessed it, it can be c h a n g e d.

If being a good nice and unique skill line really were the case it would not be getting completely overhauled. And saying many people are up in arms like you've said is the biggest overstatement I've ever seen.

Unfortunately they still aren't going to listen to people like you on this. Just how Bosmer has remained changed despite getting waaaay more screeching and attention and actually has more of a following than a handful of lore elitists.

And I feel like especially people will love how the new skill line works and plays, so that too will work against you.

(edited for baiting)

albertberku

how people cant utilize elusive mist, accelerating drain (before nerf) and devouring swarm in pvp is beyond me. Like, what is next? Are you going to call honor the dead or extended ritual useless?

Noxavian

albertberku wrote: »

how people cant utilize elusive mist, accelerating drain (before nerf) and devouring swarm in pvp are beyond me. Like, what is next? Are you going to call honor the dead or extended ritual useless?

Being useful in PvP doesn't equal being useful in general. Also doesn't really matter, the skills are being changed and that's pretty much final.

ZaroktheImmortal

Is there actually anything confirmed on what changes will be made or is it just speculation at this point? I haven't seen any official announcements on what changes may be made. I know a lot are thinking vampire lord form.

Noxavian

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Is there actually anything confirmed on what changes will be made or is it just speculation at this point? I haven't seen any official announcements on what changes may be made. I know a lot are thinking vampire lord form.

There is an entire portion of the stream where they officially talk about changes. The new ultimate is a blood scion/vamp lord transformation and mist/drain are staying a part of the kit in someway, we're also getting a feral slash and hypnotic gaze skill.

They are also reversing how feeding works so you have to be fully fed to be strong. Undeath passive is staying, but all other passives are changing.

ZaroktheImmortal

Noxavian wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Is there actually anything confirmed on what changes will be made or is it just speculation at this point? I haven't seen any official announcements on what changes may be made. I know a lot are thinking vampire lord form.

There is an entire portion of the stream where they officially talk about changes. The new ultimate is a blood scion/vamp lord transformation and mist/drain are staying a part of the kit in someway, we're also getting a feral slash and hypnotic gaze skill.

They are also reversing how feeding works so you have to be fully fed to be strong. Undeath passive is staying, but all other passives are changing.

Hmm interesting.

Thevampirenight

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Vampires are an undead being regardless of their stage.

Also Twilight literally has their vampires operate like that. It may not be by appearance, but it is by behavior. Hell, Underworld too. Feeding = Power, and Starvation = Weak.

That is what ESO is turning it into, despite being the unique opposite.

Why do you bring that quote up again? We already mentioned it in the other thread literal weeks ago, and I still will not agree with you, because that also means that Thomas the Dwarven Tank Engine is canon, and it is not.

You may of course believe what you wish, but it is still conjecture. I also find it strange how you can say that you want it to be more unique, yet you support something that is a literal Volkihar / Sanguinare Vampiris ripoff.

EDIT: I otherwise agree with you, each strain SHOULD be unique, but that is not what they're doing with Noxiphilic Sanguvoria, they're making it less unique, and literally bastardizing it into a Volkihar with reverse feeding.

Not really, got to understand everything is a remix. They do it all the time in video games and the tv/movie industry.
What is unique is you look more monsterous when well fed. Instead of more mortal. That is what is unique about it. Like that one person mentioned its not seen in other Genres and you said. Please take my scroll of Mara and you agreed with him/her.

They could have updated the skill line do all changes to it and not add the Vampire Lord form at all. But for some reason they went ahead and going to add it into the skill line. Nothing we can do about that. Does not mean they can't do more with it and give it something the Skyrim one didn't have like variations of the form for beast races like they did with the Werewolf Lord.

They could have still done the vampire lord storyline updated the vampire skill line not adding the Vampire Lord form to it and added in a Werebear Skill line. Making werebears one of the new chapter features. Something we never got to do without modding Skyrim. But then there would be those players that would be upset they cannot play vampire lords and from time to time we see a thread wanting to see vampire lords.
I thought it would be likely we could see a Vampire Lord Polymorph but I didn't expect them to add actual vampire lords to the vampire skill line. I thought it would have been introduced as a payable limited time Halloween polymorph.

I think it was their popularity the fact they were in another Elder Scrolls game. The possibility the devs really liked them enough plus the sell ability and nostalgia that ended up being the reason why they are adding them. So those factors I think played the role into this but hopefully one day they will explain their reasoning.
Still hoping for a Werebear Skill Line, I feel that unless they are playable in Elder Scrolls Six its possible Zenimax won't bother even adding them. :'(

Sephyr

Noxavian wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

There's a bit of a difference than getting an ENTIRE class wrong and being upsetti spahgetti about vamps having to feed.

And I'm sorry that vamps having to feed goes so hard against what you love about Elder Scrolls. If you aren't open to changes here and there, I'd recommend sticking strictly to the single player games and maybe not being so invested in the lore of the place.

This quote right here truly displays the fact that you've no idea why I, and clearly many others, have a very big issue with these changes.

We don't hate the changes because they give an incentive to feed, we hate the changes because they give the wrong incentive to feed, and they do it in a way that completely breaks the current iteration of how vampirism function.

They rid vampirism of the cool and unique duality that Elder Scrolls, and many of their vampire fans, hold dear.

Noxavian wrote: »

If you cannot accept that lore can change and isn't set in stone and whine when something relatively small is adjusted for better gameplay, then are you really a fan? Or just a lore elitist who likes to think they know everything and hates the thought of having to learn something new? Being a fan of Elder Scrolls also involves, you guessed it, being fine with lore adjustments. Not saying to follow all lore changes blindly, but when something like this is made to make gameplay better and to provide us with something we haven't had before, I don't think that's a hill worth dying on. It's still Elder Scrolls, it's sad that you don't understand that.


You remind me a lot of my friend that straight up won't play ESO despite being the biggest Elder Scrolls fan I know because he thinks the game breaks lore. Instead of viewing the game as a chance to experience new lore, he chooses to focus on things he personally thinks doesn't fit the lore.

Contrary to what you think, friend, I love Elder Scrolls. It's my favorite setting and lore for any video game and has provided me with many childhood memories.

However, because I love the game so much, I'm open to SOME changes in the lore to experience something new. I'm not saying we should be open to say them going as far as adding a shout skill line or something (a ridiculous idea), but with small things like vamp feeding it'll be fine.

Who knows, maybe you'll like how they play? It's a small change and shouldn't effect how you view Elder Scrolls, is more or less what im getting at.

The same argument could be said of your Necromancer, and yet you too, complained of that.

Be it one skill-line, or three. It matters little.

We will not see eye to eye, because I care about the unique representation of vampirism that the Elder Scrolls have had for the last 3 iterations, and I loved the ones prior to that even more.

This change is not an improvement in my eyes, but an utter ruination of what it once was. It is by definition a retcon of Noxiphilic Sanguivoria, and there is no way around that. Not to mention that they're turning it into a literal Volkihar ripoff, ridding it and Sanguinare Vampiris of their unique identities.

If it had been a new bloodline or strain entirely, sure I could live with that as merely a new addition to the lore. But that is not the case.

(snip) if you think the current iteration of the skill line is unique and awesome, I'm sorry. And again, just because something is UNIQUE doesn't mean it's GOOD for gameplay, (snip). You've said how you'd be fine if this bloodline was a new one because it'd be new lore. What if I told you the current ESO bloodline IS a new bloodline that didn't exist before ESO? And what if I told you that means....you guessed it, it can be c h a n g e d.

If being a good nice and unique skill line really were the case it would not be getting completely overhauled. And saying many people are up in arms like you've said is the biggest overstatement I've ever seen.

Unfortunately they still aren't going to listen to people like you on this. Just how Bosmer has remained changed despite getting waaaay more screeching and attention and actually has more of a following than a handful of lore elitists.

And I feel like especially people will love how the new skill line works and plays, so that too will work against you.

(edited for baiting)

I highly agree with this bolded statement. I've heard nothing but excitement from many people in the PvE, PvP, and RP communities because vampirism has grown to be a stale trope that is no longer interesting or fun.

But like I said, this is why I'm halfway in the RP community and halfway out. Yikes.

Noxavian

Sephyr wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

There's a bit of a difference than getting an ENTIRE class wrong and being upsetti spahgetti about vamps having to feed.

And I'm sorry that vamps having to feed goes so hard against what you love about Elder Scrolls. If you aren't open to changes here and there, I'd recommend sticking strictly to the single player games and maybe not being so invested in the lore of the place.

This quote right here truly displays the fact that you've no idea why I, and clearly many others, have a very big issue with these changes.

We don't hate the changes because they give an incentive to feed, we hate the changes because they give the wrong incentive to feed, and they do it in a way that completely breaks the current iteration of how vampirism function.

They rid vampirism of the cool and unique duality that Elder Scrolls, and many of their vampire fans, hold dear.

Noxavian wrote: »

If you cannot accept that lore can change and isn't set in stone and whine when something relatively small is adjusted for better gameplay, then are you really a fan? Or just a lore elitist who likes to think they know everything and hates the thought of having to learn something new? Being a fan of Elder Scrolls also involves, you guessed it, being fine with lore adjustments. Not saying to follow all lore changes blindly, but when something like this is made to make gameplay better and to provide us with something we haven't had before, I don't think that's a hill worth dying on. It's still Elder Scrolls, it's sad that you don't understand that.


You remind me a lot of my friend that straight up won't play ESO despite being the biggest Elder Scrolls fan I know because he thinks the game breaks lore. Instead of viewing the game as a chance to experience new lore, he chooses to focus on things he personally thinks doesn't fit the lore.

Contrary to what you think, friend, I love Elder Scrolls. It's my favorite setting and lore for any video game and has provided me with many childhood memories.

However, because I love the game so much, I'm open to SOME changes in the lore to experience something new. I'm not saying we should be open to say them going as far as adding a shout skill line or something (a ridiculous idea), but with small things like vamp feeding it'll be fine.

Who knows, maybe you'll like how they play? It's a small change and shouldn't effect how you view Elder Scrolls, is more or less what im getting at.

The same argument could be said of your Necromancer, and yet you too, complained of that.

Be it one skill-line, or three. It matters little.

We will not see eye to eye, because I care about the unique representation of vampirism that the Elder Scrolls have had for the last 3 iterations, and I loved the ones prior to that even more.

This change is not an improvement in my eyes, but an utter ruination of what it once was. It is by definition a retcon of Noxiphilic Sanguivoria, and there is no way around that. Not to mention that they're turning it into a literal Volkihar ripoff, ridding it and Sanguinare Vampiris of their unique identities.

If it had been a new bloodline or strain entirely, sure I could live with that as merely a new addition to the lore. But that is not the case.

(snip) if you think the current iteration of the skill line is unique and awesome, I'm sorry. And again, just because something is UNIQUE doesn't mean it's GOOD for gameplay, (snip). You've said how you'd be fine if this bloodline was a new one because it'd be new lore. What if I told you the current ESO bloodline IS a new bloodline that didn't exist before ESO? And what if I told you that means....you guessed it, it can be c h a n g e d.

If being a good nice and unique skill line really were the case it would not be getting completely overhauled. And saying many people are up in arms like you've said is the biggest overstatement I've ever seen.

Unfortunately they still aren't going to listen to people like you on this. Just how Bosmer has remained changed despite getting waaaay more screeching and attention and actually has more of a following than a handful of lore elitists.

And I feel like especially people will love how the new skill line works and plays, so that too will work against you.

(edited for baiting)

I highly agree with this bolded statement. I've heard nothing but excitement from many people in the PvE, PvP, and RP communities because vampirism has grown to be a stale trope that is no longer interesting or fun.

But like I said, this is why I'm halfway in the RP community and halfway out. Yikes.

Exactly! Same man, I've heard nothing but good things too. I'm excited that this is going to breathe much needed life into vamps.

I get why you're halfway in the RP and halfway out. I feel like a majority of the RP community is very chill, people like these are in the minority. I hope, at least. I also hope that the devs don't listen to the minority on this one. Quite frankly, I doubt they even know about the little bit of screeching that has occurred.

Sephyr

Noxavian wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

There's a bit of a difference than getting an ENTIRE class wrong and being upsetti spahgetti about vamps having to feed.

And I'm sorry that vamps having to feed goes so hard against what you love about Elder Scrolls. If you aren't open to changes here and there, I'd recommend sticking strictly to the single player games and maybe not being so invested in the lore of the place.

This quote right here truly displays the fact that you've no idea why I, and clearly many others, have a very big issue with these changes.

We don't hate the changes because they give an incentive to feed, we hate the changes because they give the wrong incentive to feed, and they do it in a way that completely breaks the current iteration of how vampirism function.

They rid vampirism of the cool and unique duality that Elder Scrolls, and many of their vampire fans, hold dear.

Noxavian wrote: »

If you cannot accept that lore can change and isn't set in stone and whine when something relatively small is adjusted for better gameplay, then are you really a fan? Or just a lore elitist who likes to think they know everything and hates the thought of having to learn something new? Being a fan of Elder Scrolls also involves, you guessed it, being fine with lore adjustments. Not saying to follow all lore changes blindly, but when something like this is made to make gameplay better and to provide us with something we haven't had before, I don't think that's a hill worth dying on. It's still Elder Scrolls, it's sad that you don't understand that.


You remind me a lot of my friend that straight up won't play ESO despite being the biggest Elder Scrolls fan I know because he thinks the game breaks lore. Instead of viewing the game as a chance to experience new lore, he chooses to focus on things he personally thinks doesn't fit the lore.

Contrary to what you think, friend, I love Elder Scrolls. It's my favorite setting and lore for any video game and has provided me with many childhood memories.

However, because I love the game so much, I'm open to SOME changes in the lore to experience something new. I'm not saying we should be open to say them going as far as adding a shout skill line or something (a ridiculous idea), but with small things like vamp feeding it'll be fine.

Who knows, maybe you'll like how they play? It's a small change and shouldn't effect how you view Elder Scrolls, is more or less what im getting at.

The same argument could be said of your Necromancer, and yet you too, complained of that.

Be it one skill-line, or three. It matters little.

We will not see eye to eye, because I care about the unique representation of vampirism that the Elder Scrolls have had for the last 3 iterations, and I loved the ones prior to that even more.

This change is not an improvement in my eyes, but an utter ruination of what it once was. It is by definition a retcon of Noxiphilic Sanguivoria, and there is no way around that. Not to mention that they're turning it into a literal Volkihar ripoff, ridding it and Sanguinare Vampiris of their unique identities.

If it had been a new bloodline or strain entirely, sure I could live with that as merely a new addition to the lore. But that is not the case.

You're actually tripping if you think the current iteration of the skill line is unique and awesome, I'm sorry. And again, just because something is UNIQUE doesn't mean it's GOOD for gameplay, I don't know how you don't get this. You've said how you'd be fine if this bloodline was a new one because it'd be new lore. What if I told you the current ESO bloodline IS a new bloodline that didn't exist before ESO? And what if I told you that means....you guessed it, it can be c h a n g e d.

If being a good nice and unique skill line really were the case it would not be getting completely overhauled. And saying many people are up in arms like you've said is the biggest overstatement I've ever seen.

Unfortunately they still aren't going to listen to people like you on this. Just how Bosmer has remained changed despite getting waaaay more screeching and attention and actually has more of a following than a handful of lore elitists.

And I feel like especially people will love how the new skill line works and plays, so that too will work against you.

I highly agree with this bolded statement. I've heard nothing but excitement from many people in the PvE, PvP, and RP communities because vampirism has grown to be a stale trope that is no longer interesting or fun.

But like I said, this is why I'm halfway in the RP community and halfway out. Yikes.

Exactly! Same man, I've heard nothing but good things too. I'm excited that this is going to breathe much needed life into vamps.

I get why you're halfway in the RP and halfway out. I feel like a majority of the RP community is very chill, people like these are in the minority. I hope, at least. I also hope that the devs don't listen to the minority on this one. Quite frankly, I doubt they even know about the little bit of screeching that has occurred.

It's seriously been making me get my bites early so I can share bites with others again. I've even seen interest in a few old guild ideas popping back up after vampirism wasn't really all that needed anymore.

As for the community at large, I'm sure they're pretty chill because they're the most content. With the minority, I find it difficult if not impossible to reason with them. Unfortunately those are the ones that are also the loudest and most active. But once the change is in, I'll definitely share some marshmallows and popcorn. I can see it now, "EvErYoNe HaTeS iT!" "No, Linda. It's just you."

Nemesis7884

it makes a whole lot more sense to me that your power grows the more you feed...

Shardaxx

Well they already wrecked my Bosmer and NB skills, so now I guess its time to wreck vamps, and then I really will be done with this game.

ShadowHvo

Noxavian wrote: »

What if I told you the current ESO bloodline IS a new bloodline that didn't exist before ESO? And what if I told you that means....you guessed it, it can be c h a n g e d.

You do not understand what retcon means.

Either that, or you're blissfully ignorant of our entire discourse over the last couple of weeks. But you do you.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

since is chapter material it will obviously be brokenly overpowered so every1 will be vampire again and every1 should stack on prism glyphs.

barney2525

I " Expect " Nothing.

Why can't people Wait and see exactly what the change is, before Complaining about it ?


So weird

Ratzkifal

devaneiosonho wrote: »

The changing on how the vampire feeding works is not the problem in my opinion. The stupidity of getting stronger the more hungry you get came first in Oblivion and I couldn't care less about a lot of things introduced in Oblivion.

In both Daggerfall and Morrowind you do NOT get stronger when you refuse to feed. In daggerfall if you neglect your feeding, you cannot even regen your attributes. In Morrowind there is no actual "feeding" system, only a skill used to drain health, since you can't regenerate naturally, but still, no idiotic idea of getting stronger when starving.

My problem is ZOS' need to *** on my parade. Why also change how the appearance works? WHY get uglier when you're on your best? Ugh.

@devaneiosonho The way I understand it, vampirism is a daedric curse that makes you more powerful but also drives you crazy with a thirst of blood. Blood is not the source of your power, so it's not required to stay powerful instead it simply sates this unnatural hunger and allows you to think more clearly again. It's only speculation why that is, perhaps drinking mortal blood allows you to regain some of your lost mortality, sanity as well as appearance.

As for Daggerfall, there are a lot of things in Daggerfall that have since been retconned but the not recovering resources (in sunlight) which has been pretty consistent even in Skyrim. It's a drawback that comes with the affliction, except that it's not fit for ESO simply because we don't have control over the day and night cycle as we do in the single-player games. Here gameplay does win over lore, but the same doesn't apply to the feeding reversal, because we could solve the need to feed via justice interactions on stage 4 (aka when you are at your most monsterous and your most powerful).

Michaelkeir

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

What are we expecting from this?

Frankly, I smell nerfs. People have been crutching on Mist Form and Undeath for awhile. I wouldn't be surprised if the whole skill line was changed to mirror werewolf, where there is a transformation ultimate, and the active skills from the line are only available while transformed.

I agree with you here. They're going to nerf that undeath passive. Based on ZoS history I see this happening. It's just too popular. And ZoS nerfs anything popular that the majority of the player base uses. Just look at ANYTHING popular and how it was nerfed.

Most people are becoming vampires just for passives. I'm not saying I want it nerfed, I don't, but I'm not foolish enough to think they won't "touch" or adjust the passive.

What EVER they decide to do, I just hope I can make a decent build around being a vampire and using mostly vampire skills and still do decent dps in vet dlc dungeons without sucking like I can with my pure WW build.

ZOS_FalcoYamaoka

Greetings,

Some posts have been removed due to baiting and naming and shaming. Please review our community rules to understand what is expected when posting on the forums.

Evilkiwi80

I would like to see vampire be like werewolf. You morph into a vampire lord with its own skill set like werewolf.

ZOS_FalcoYamaoka

Greetings,

This thread has been closed due to derailing into personal attacks between community members. As stated earlier, comments were removed for this reason, but since it continued, we are now forced to close it.